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Equal Pay Day: Think before you parrot the empty rhetoric

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Posted: Saturday, April 6, 2013 5:00 pm

When I was a kid, women were demanding “Equal Pay for Equal Work.” Somewhere along the way in the last 50 years, that has been conveniently truncated to “Equal Pay — Period.”

At least, that SHOULD be the slogan — if truth in advertising laws could be applied to political posturing — because Equal Pay Day, which falls on Tuesday, April 9, is not about equal pay for equal work, but just about increasing women’s pay arbitrarily as a form of Marxist social engineering.

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          Welcome to the discussion.

          214 comments:

          • Pete posted at 6:20 am on Sun, Apr 14, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            HighTechCowboy posted at 6:20 pm on Sat, Apr 13, 2013

            What can you say to people who "outlaw" flags but turn a blind eye to murder?

            10 OF THE MOST SHOCKING ALLEGATIONS IN THE GRUESOME ‘HOUSE OF HORRORS’ THAT WAS DR. KERMIT GOSNELL’S ABORTION CLINIC (WARNING: GRAPHIC)

            http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/04/12/10-of-the-most-shocking-allegations-in-the-gruesome-house-of-horrors-that-was-dr-kermit-gosnells-abortion-clinic-warning-graphic/

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 6:20 pm on Sat, Apr 13, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            Pete posted at 5:44 pm on Sat, Apr 13, 2013

            If someone taking offense is going to be the new standard, it's time we all act up and get really loud about all the signs and symbols of progressivism WE find offensive and give 'em a run for their money.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 6:16 pm on Sat, Apr 13, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            kohana: Why is it I still get these stupid dumb calls and I am on a "do not call" registry?

            HTC: When the Do-Not-Call law was established, the good members of Congress saw fit to exempt callers from charities, non-profits, pollsters and, of course, themselves and other politicians/political parties.

             
          • Pete posted at 5:44 pm on Sat, Apr 13, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            The Progressive Neo-Nazi's march on.....surreal.

            "NY TOWN REMOVES VETERANS’ GADSDEN FLAG FOR BEING AN OFFENSIVE TEA PARTY SYMBOL"

            http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/04/12/ny-town-removes-veterans-gadsden-flag-for-being-an-offensive-tea-party-symbol/

             
          • Rob123 posted at 4:16 pm on Sat, Apr 13, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6604

            mooseberryinn posted at 3:52 pm on Sat, Apr 13, 2013.
            [smile]
            I can imagine some nice, young, sweet, liberal gal getting you on the phone to vote for More Flowers in the Parks and breaking into tears before she finally has to hang up.......Of course, you should be concerned over which Ultra-Conservative Organization sold your number and vital statistics to a bunch of Lefties!

             
          • mooseberryinn posted at 3:52 pm on Sat, Apr 13, 2013.

            mooseberryinn Posts: 2693

            All the weird and wacky calls and absurdities that traditionally were over the top are now perfectly acceptable to the loony left bent demo-dummy/communist party. It's a matter of "climate change". Where our previous moral "climate" had honorable behavior, and acceptable, polite limits, now there are none. It stems from the now prevalent "the ends justify the means" . This is the game plan of the Kim Jong Obama/demo-dummy regime. Just keep up the attack on normalcy, until even the slightest momentary balance seems better.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 2:52 pm on Sat, Apr 13, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6604

            https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151363467443220&set=a.386795238219.167977.27357898219&type=1&theater

            Kay: Political calls were/are exempt.

             
          • kohana posted at 2:40 pm on Sat, Apr 13, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            HighTechCowboy posted at 2:11 pm on Sat, Apr 13, 2013

            Maybe I should have engaged him in a conversation, might have changed his mind. Doubt it though, because I was p.i.s.s.e.d I got the call in the first place. My phone has a flasher and it upsets my birds. Why is it I still get these stupid dumb calls and I am on a "do not call" registry?

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 2:11 pm on Sat, Apr 13, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            kohana: I just received a phone call at 1:10 p.m., from "Mayors against illegal guns."....Does anyone here know about this outfit?

            HTC: Bloomberg is the principal player behind the organization. The very name of the organization tells you that 'universal' background checks is only the beginning for them; otherwise, they'd have named themselves "Mayors Against Illegal Gun Owners."

             
          • kohana posted at 1:19 pm on Sat, Apr 13, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            I just received a phone call at 1:10 p.m., from "Mayors against illegal guns." I have no idea where it originated and didn't bother to ask. I told the guy, I am pro-gun, and am not the person he wants to talk with, and hung up.

            The only people I think that have illegal guns are criminals, and they will always have them.
            This organization doesn't seem to be in Montana, or at least Montana isn't listed on their website. Does anyone here know about this outfit?

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 11:24 am on Sat, Apr 13, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            kohana: I just watched this video, "3801 Lancaster," about Gosnell and his abortion clinic. I plead with all of you Pro-choice people to watch it.

            HTC: Almost as disgusting is the MSM's nearly complete silence on the matter:

            http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/editorials/dead_silence_hAqJph4A3hjaD0imiwHgZI

             
          • kohana posted at 10:17 am on Sat, Apr 13, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7YmrsY4KSY

            I just watched this video, "3801 Lancaster," about Gosnell and his abortion clinic. I plead with all of you Pro-choice people to watch it. If you can still argue that abortion should be allowed, you have less caring and love for your fellow humans than you claim. I have been Pro-choice since Roe vs Wade, and it never crossed my mind that this murder of viable, living, breathing babies would occur. There is another abortion clinic in Delaware doing the same thing, and probably those types of clinics are at in every state.

            I took a friend once to a clinic run by reputable Ob/Gyn physicians, and they refused to abort her as she was over the 1st trimester. They also gave pre-counseling to every patient, encouraging the person there was a better alternative than an abortion, and sent her to a group who would help her with clothing, furniture, formula, etc.

            So for all these years, in total ignorance, I believed this was the way it worked in all abortion clinics.

             
          • kohana posted at 10:14 am on Sat, Apr 13, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109


            HighTechCowboy posted at 8:35 am on Sat, Apr 13, 2013

            I read those articles this morning, pretty sickening, huh? Matter of fact I was debating posting the article about the "Jews are Evil" assignment in a New York school, just for some of our commentator's edification. A good clue how children are indoctrinated to grow up despising Jews.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:43 am on Sat, Apr 13, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            And let's not overlook this stunning moment in Wisconsin public school education where students were given a crossword puzzle style test which defined conservatism as "restricting personal freedom" and liberalism as "personal freedom for everyone.":

            http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/04/11/8th-grade-crossword-puzzle-definitions-at-wis-school-conservatism-restricting-personal-freedoms-liberalism-personal-freedom-for-everyone/

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:35 am on Sat, Apr 13, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            More 'bright' moments in liberal-run public education -

            Principal suspends students who disarmed student pointing loaded gun at another student:

            http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/03/02/high-school-student-disarms-gunman-gets-suspended/

            Fourth graders asked to list what constitutional rights they'd give up in order to be 'safe':

            http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/04/13/report-florida-teacher-tells-fourth-graders-to-give-up-constitutional-rights/

            New York school district apologizes for "Jews are evil" school assignment:

            http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/04/12/new-york-school-district-apologizes-for-jews-are-evil-assignment/

            Teachers bully student with conservative views:

            http://video.foxnews.com/v/2279944390001/bias-in-the-classroom-teachers-investigated-for-bullying/?playlist_id=87651

             
          • jennydoe posted at 6:05 am on Sat, Apr 13, 2013.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            JEB: you don't have an intellectually honest cell in your body
            --------------------
            Oh my! I guess it was my intellectually honest cells that self aborted!
            How many different body types of cells do you have in your body?

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 9:17 pm on Fri, Apr 12, 2013.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            Triggerfinger posted at 5:53 pm on Fri, Apr 12, 2013.

            Sorry, there's no puking icon...............

             
          • Triggerfinger posted at 5:53 pm on Fri, Apr 12, 2013.

            Triggerfinger Posts: 376

            JBSTONE posted at 4:59 pm on Fri, Apr 12, 2013.---......NICE attempt at dodging the issue which YOU created. I asked for specifics and all you have to offer is impudent trolling.
            You won't last long.
            Unless, of course, you somehow "think" this board needs yet another intellectual hemorrhoid.
            No, I believe you are just fearful at having your mini-revelations torn to bits by folks who have actually researched the various topics at hand


            Tf---All I can say is "Wow." OK...here are your specifics:

            @ jennydoe: .......unfortunately, you don't have an intellectually honest cell in your body.

            @ jennydoe: Weasel Words.

            Rob123-- "Why did some of Europe's most important thinkers attach themselves to the Nazi cause?"
            ~~~~~~~~~~~~
            JBSTONE---Uh..............they were relatives of Bronco & SOB..........???

            @ SorrySOB: a malcontent from the word go and NO amount of kindness or understanding will change that.
            @Bronco: Perhaps, but it's a damn sight better than having to share air with the likes of you........!!!

            Tf---Great "research on the topics at hand", by the way. If all you're going to do is lunge at people who don't share your views, you should expect someone to sooner or later put you in your place. I stated nothing untrue. You should apologize to those people or were you raised to be offensive?

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 4:59 pm on Fri, Apr 12, 2013.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            Triggerfinger posted at 3:45 pm on Fri, Apr 12, 2013.

            ......NICE attempt at dodging the issue which YOU created. I asked for specifics and all you have to offer is impudent trolling.

            You won't last long.

            Unless, of course, you somehow "think" this board needs yet another intellectual hemorrhoid.

            No, I believe you are just fearful at having your mini-revelations torn to bits by folks who have actually researched the various topics at hand.

            [thumbdown]

             
          • Rob123 posted at 3:51 pm on Fri, Apr 12, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6604

            HTC: "But if you sleep better at night by convincing yourself that we're always WAY ahead of everyone else in the arms race, then don't let little ol' me stop you."

            I didn't say that, YOU DID! For gawd sakes man, keep it 1/2 honest. And once again, the whole line of thought was over 4 F-16's sold or given to Egypt, which if you look at a map, is next to Israel, which immediately drew concern and loathing by Pete towards our government.
            ---------------------
            Side note.....I just got back from a walk, and bumped into a guy walking his Tibetan Mastiff. What a beautiful dog! Black and Tan, about 175lbs, and well socialized (WHEW!). A visitor from Oregon. I'm very glad I had the shot collars on my dogs, as it took some warning beeps to get them back to me and sitting down. I'm not sure, but Mastiff's don't play well, usually.

             
          • Triggerfinger posted at 3:45 pm on Fri, Apr 12, 2013.

            Triggerfinger Posts: 376

            JBSTONE posted at 2:35 pm on Fri, Apr 12, 2013.---
            .....uh, since you've chosen to include besmirching me in your screed..........WHY........???

            Tf--Well, Mr. Stone, one needs only scroll down and read your one-liners to discover a bountiful collection of you "engaged in pure insult in response" to warrant adding you to the list of "what small minds offer as 'argument.'" On what basis would one construe that I am indeed besmirching you when you have done such a proper job of it yourself? How could I damage a reputation already ruined by your own actions?

             
          • Triggerfinger posted at 3:36 pm on Fri, Apr 12, 2013.

            Triggerfinger Posts: 376

            HighTechCowboy posted at 1:54 pm on Fri, Apr 12, 2013.---
            Triggerfinger: I asked you a pointed question.
            HTC: Yes, you did. And I answered it.
            You just didn't like the answer.

            Tf---You second-guessing my opinion of your answer is yet another impotent attempt to ridicule me. My contention was with your dismissive and haughty retorts, which, true to form, formed the bookends to your reply. As far as your answer goes, I considered it well-stated and concise.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 2:35 pm on Fri, Apr 12, 2013.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            Triggerfinger posted at 11:07 am on Fri, Apr 12, 2013.

            .....uh, since you've chosen to include besmirching me in your screed..........WHY........???

            [thumbdown]

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 2:25 pm on Fri, Apr 12, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            Rob123 posted at 2:15 pm on Fri, Apr 12, 2013

            HTC: It's obvious that, while I've spent my life in the technology field, you've apparently been inhaling petroleum fumes. Everyone who understands and deals with technology, as I do, knows that there are vulnerabilities you can't always foresee and that, more often than not, there's a 25-cent countermeasure for every $10M weapon system or defensive technology.

            Then there's also spying and hacking, both of which the Russians and Chinese excel at.

            But if you sleep better at night by convincing yourself that we're always WAY ahead of everyone else in the arms race, then don't let little ol' me stop you. But if you want to see real arrogance, just look into a mirror.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 2:15 pm on Fri, Apr 12, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6604

            HighTechCowboy posted at 1:38 pm on Fri, Apr 12, 2013.
            ".....to assume that they haven't already hacked our aircraft-based technology and wouldn't sell the countermeasures to Egypt is being quite naïve."

            So, the guys in our R & D, costing us Billions, are just sitting around having a good time and don't really do anything innovative, new, and tricky? It's not really an Arms Race, then? Just a bunch of old dumb bombs floating in the wind. Heck, they might as well move to Montucky and write absurd pronouncements on the internet? Great scenery when they look up from their screen, look out the window, and ponder their next dispatch.
            http://www.duffelblog.com/2013/04/f-35-scores-historic-first-combat-kill-by-shooting-down-f-35-program/

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 1:54 pm on Fri, Apr 12, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            Triggerfinger: I asked you a pointed question.

            HTC: Yes, you did. And I answered it.

            You just didn't like the answer.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 1:51 pm on Fri, Apr 12, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            fish: If you don't think that stat proves gender discrimination in that particular industry, how else would you explain it? Are male lawyers just better in general? I think Frank's point is legitmate: the 77% stat is pretty stupid. But just because the "equal pay" crowd is using a phony stat doesn't mean that gender discrimination isn't real.

            HTC: I'm not saying that this particular statistic isn't real; only that it proves nothing by itself. I have several friends in the legal profession. Some of them are in large, prestigious law firms; others are in small or independent practices and a couple are law professors. Roughly 60% of them are male and the rest are female. One of the professors is female as well.

            None of them feel that there is significant gender bias against women in the legal profession. They see MANY reasons why there would be more male partners in prestigious law firms than females, from the fact that more women drop out of their legal careers than do men to the fact that many women don't want to pay the personal prices required to gain partner status in such firms. The latter is one reason why more women than men prefer small firms or even independent practice.

            But think about it: How smart would it be to try to screw a lawyer based upon gender? That's a REALLY bad idea in my book.

            fish: I can look back and remember a time or two when I was the one discriminating. It wasn't on purpose but in retrospect I accelerated the career of a man over a woman simply because by nature, the woman seemed more content. Had I been forced to tie paychecks to job descriptions, it wounldn't have happended. And that is all that needs to be done. Force businesses to standardize their pay scales and voila! Its that easy.

            HTC: Your reasoning assumes that all employees doing the same work produce equally and provide equal value to their employer. That's simply not the case and never will be. That's why "standardized" pay scales make no sense at all and quickly lead to a race to the bottom, as has always been the case in unionized environments.

            Many women aren't as ambitious as some of their male counterparts and many men aren't as well. They both get passed over at times because they aren't on a climb towards the top and aren't providing that extra value that will help get them there.

            There's nothing wrong with being content as long as you're getting the job done and you realize that your pay and advancement are probably going to be affected by that decision to some degree. And there's no reason to feel that you've done anything wrong because you advanced someone over them because of it.

            This is a competitive world, especially in business, and those who are 'content' aren't going to be among the big winners.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 1:38 pm on Fri, Apr 12, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            Rob123: Like Egypt is going to attack Russia or China? Keep it real. This ain't the scify channel, ya know.

            HTC: You're really not following this, are you? Russia and China have already proven they'll sell their knowledge and technology to virtually anyone; so, to assume that they haven't already hacked our aircraft-based technology and wouldn't sell the countermeasures to Egypt is being quite naïve.

            Got it now?

             
          • Pete posted at 1:22 pm on Fri, Apr 12, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Rob123 posted at 7:31 am on Fri, Apr 12, 2013

            It sounded more like a ThinkProgress mantra.

             
          • fish posted at 1:16 pm on Fri, Apr 12, 2013.

            fish Posts: 130

            HTC: You clearly wish to make a point, so now substantiate it.

            fish: I got that stat from wikipedia. The source is cited. Its a snippit from a study done by a legitimate, non-partisan research center.

            If you don't think that stat proves gender discrimination in that particular industry, how else would you explain it? Are male lawyers just better in general? I think Frank's point is legitmate: the 77% stat is pretty stupid. But just because the "equal pay" crowd is using a phony stat doesn't mean that gender discrimination isn't real.

            I can look back and remember a time or two when I was the one discriminating. It wasn't on purpose but in retrospect I accelerated the career of a man over a woman simply because by nature, the woman seemed more content. Had I been forced to tie paychecks to job descriptions, it wounldn't have happended. And that is all that needs to be done. Force businesses to standardize their pay scales and voila! Its that easy.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 1:01 pm on Fri, Apr 12, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6604

            HTC: A bit of advice: If you're going to try to pick a fight, pull your head out of your azz first!

            Like Egypt is going to attack Russia or China? Keep it real. This ain't the scify channel, ya know.

             
          • Triggerfinger posted at 1:01 pm on Fri, Apr 12, 2013.

            Triggerfinger Posts: 376

            HighTechCowboy posted at 12:17 pm on Fri, Apr 12, 2013.---You remind me of my kids when they were little and, upon correcting one child, that child or another would point out offenses supposedly being committed by the others, demanding that they be dealt with as well.

            Tf---I asked you a pointed question. I did not demand that you deal with commenters fairly. You dismissed my issue as absurd, along with a salvo of put-downs. Though you did eventually answer the question, your impotent attempt at ridicule served no good, and instead diluted the discussion. For one who describes others' insult-laden responses as "what small minds have to offer" I can't help but wonder about the bookend insults that accompany your nearly every post.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 12:17 pm on Fri, Apr 12, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            Triggerfinger posted at 11:07 am on Fri, Apr 12, 2013

            HTC: You remind me of my kids when they were little and, upon correcting one child, that child or another would point out offenses supposedly being committed by the others, demanding that they be dealt with as well.

            When that behavior is still present in adults, it, too, is indicative of a small mind; or, at least a juvenile personality.

            But lest you absurdly continue to believe that you're raising a real issue of some kind, let me point out that I was responding to insults addressed to me personally by jennyDoh. I don't make it a habit to call out others when they may be insulting someone else, regardless of each others' apparent political beliefs. I trust their targets can defend themselves if they feel a need to do so.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 12:10 pm on Fri, Apr 12, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            Rob123: "reverse-engineered".....As if they can't figure our how to do it by themselves? Gawd, you arrogant man.

            HTC: A bit of advice: If you're going to try to pick a fight, pull your head out of your azz first!

            HINT: If they're going to try to defeat our own technology that "light(s) up that weapon and turn(s) it into a target that is so big it lights up the whole screen and it is destroyed", they're going to have to reverse-engineer OUR technology!

            Duh!


             
          • Triggerfinger posted at 11:07 am on Fri, Apr 12, 2013.

            Triggerfinger Posts: 376

            HighTechCowboy posted at 8:31 pm on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.---Not surprisingly, you completely missed the point and engaged in pure insult in response. It's what small minds offer as 'argument.'


            Tf---A question, sir; that comment (or insult) could be leveled at Mr. Stone , bill39, or moosebeeryinn as well. Why do you consistently fail to "educate" your chorus group when they are off key? You remind me of my neighbor who complains about my dog barking but does nothing when his dogs start howling at the mail carrier.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 9:36 am on Fri, Apr 12, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6604

            HTC: You're naively assuming that China and Russia haven't already reverse-engineered that stuff, something they're VERY good at.

            "reverse-engineered".....As if they can't figure our how to do it by themselves? Gawd, you arrogant man. Remember, they have their own Central Banks and client states they arm, and face many of the same problems we do. For an educated man, you are really naive. A typical American, I reckon.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 9:33 am on Fri, Apr 12, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            Even as this administration, in response to sequestration, is screwing our veterans out of their promised educational benefits and smaller airports are preparing to close down due to the loss of their FAA control towers, Obama is preparing to INCREASE funding to the U.S.-hating U.N.:

            http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/04/12/despite-sequester-state-department-ups-support-for-un/

            Thank gawd I didn't vote for this man. And shame on those who did!

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 9:12 am on Fri, Apr 12, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            Rob123: Relax, Pete. As everyone in the DoD and CIA knows, any plane sold or given by US to a foreign country is bugged with very high tech sensors operating in ranges and frequencies most people don't even know exist. If for any reason said weapon is turned against us or our Allies, especially Israel, Australia, and a couple other White dominated Nations filled with people who understand Manifest Destiny and successfully subjugated the indigenous population at home, well......those sensors light up that weapon and turn it into a target that is so big it lights up the whole screen and it is destroyed. So don't worry. You're safe.

            HTC: You're naively assuming that China and Russia haven't already reverse-engineered that stuff, something they're VERY good at. They've already hacked some of our 'secure' UAV command-and-control technologies which are much newer and supposedly bulltetproof.

            People who trust their own technology too much usually end up victimized by it.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 9:07 am on Fri, Apr 12, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            Rob123: Dream on, big guy. Dream on. And whatever you do, don't let reality crush your big noggin.

            HTC: I see you still haven't figured out that (A) our inalienable rights aren't defined by popular whim and (B) Many of the biggest advances in human development have come from a MINORITY of its people at the time.

            The Founders knew "A" very well and are a perfect example of "B" because the overwhelming majority of colonists at that time did NOT support their break with England.

            Thank gawd the history of man has demonstrated that not everyone will be someone like you who can't see the forest for the trees.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 8:09 am on Fri, Apr 12, 2013.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            jennydoe posted at 5:32 am on Fri, Apr 12, 2013.

            .......unfortunately, you don't have an intellectually honest cell in your body......[crying]

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:08 am on Fri, Apr 12, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            jennyDoh: It is so nice you care enough about me to consider my words insults HTIC.

            HTC: Once again, you miss the point. It's not that I took insult from your words; it's that I recognized that they were intended as insult.

            If missing the point was a valued skill, you'd easily be pulling down 7 figures.

             
          • bill39 posted at 7:43 am on Fri, Apr 12, 2013.

            bill39 Posts: 1052

            HTC: It's what small minds offer as 'argument.'

            bill: [smile]

             
          • bill39 posted at 7:39 am on Fri, Apr 12, 2013.

            bill39 Posts: 1052

            HTC: Pretty galling after 16 Republicans crossed over and voted for cloture on their dumbazz gun control bill.

            They're much more than mere idiots, however. They're juvenile, vile and morally bankrupt self-serving elitists as well.

            I'd go further and say the deceitful blank are worse than democrats.

             
          • bill39 posted at 7:31 am on Fri, Apr 12, 2013.

            bill39 Posts: 1052

            moose:It will not control criminal elements at all. It will serve as a "registry" of gun owners for federal regime.

            The left has used "a tiny bit at a time" to erode MANY of our liberties.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 7:31 am on Fri, Apr 12, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6604

            Pete posted at 5:22 am on Fri, Apr 12, 2013.

            Don't jump to conclusions, Pete. I was merely exercising my "I read banned books" mantra. Go back to sleep.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 5:32 am on Fri, Apr 12, 2013.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            It is so nice you care enough about me to consider my words insults HTIC.
            Leaves me feeling loved - a wonderful way to start the day!


            Guess my answer to you JEB isn't what you wanted to hear.

             
          • Pete posted at 5:22 am on Fri, Apr 12, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Rob123 posted at 3:32 am on Fri, Apr 12, 2013

            Ah Rob...white guilt keeping you up? Why don't you go volunteer in one of those superior indigenous cultures you admire soooooo much? Maybe heed your own advice? "But for gawd sakes, stand up and be counted. All this political bellyaching is getting old." Or are you afraid it might take the shine off your idealism to be beheaded by the locals when you're there to build a school?

             
          • Rob123 posted at 3:32 am on Fri, Apr 12, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6604

            Pete posted at 6:42 pm on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.
            Posts: 2378
            Brilliant.
            "US gives 4 more F-16 fighter jets to Egyptian government despite outcry,"
            _____________________
            Relax, Pete. As everyone in the DoD and CIA knows, any plane sold or given by US to a foreign country is bugged with very high tech sensors operating in ranges and frequencies most people don't even know exist. If for any reason said weapon is turned against us or our Allies, especially Israel, Australia, and a couple other White dominated Nations filled with people who understand Manifest Destiny and successfully subjugated the indigenous population at home, well......those sensors light up that weapon and turn it into a target that is so big it lights up the whole screen and it is destroyed. So don't worry. You're safe.
            http://inthesetimes.com/article/14851/in_palestine_dignity_and_violence/
            " Gaza's southern border remains largely under the control of Egypt's dreaded secret police, the Mukhabarat, which credible reports link closely to the CIA and the Israeli Mossad."

             
          • Rob123 posted at 2:47 am on Fri, Apr 12, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6604

            Pete: What a bunch of idiots.
            HTC: "Pretty galling after 16 Republicans crossed over and voted for cloture on their dumbazz gun control bill.
            They're much more than mere idiots, however. They're juvenile, vile and morally bankrupt self-serving elitists as well."
            ------------------
            "They're juvenile, vile and morally bankrupt self-serving elitists as well."
            It's always good to hear from an expert witness who knows what he is talking about due to personal experience.
            And with 8% of the American population firmly in your 'camp' concerning Guns, while 28% think the current rules are enough, and the remaining 64% are in favor of stricter rules like Mandatory Background checks on ALL Gun Sales......well, it just goes to show you how screwed up present day American Democracy is, since we are actually a Republic and need to get back to White Males who own Property electing each other to do the work of a little, small, dinky government . Dream on, big guy. Dream on. And whatever you do, don't let reality crush your big noggin.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 9:24 pm on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            jennydoe posted at 6:02 pm on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

            [thumbdown]

            Weasel Words.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 9:02 pm on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            Taxpayer-funded jackazz USC professor demonstrates the typical 'tolerance' of the left:

            http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/professor-calls-republicans-stupid-racist.html

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:31 pm on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            jennydoe posted at 7:32 pm on Thu, Apr 11, 2013

            Not surprisingly, you completely missed the point and engaged in pure insult in response. It's what small minds offer as 'argument.'

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:27 pm on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            Pete: What a bunch of idiots.

            HTC: Pretty galling after 16 Republicans crossed over and voted for cloture on their dumbazz gun control bill.

            They're much more than mere idiots, however. They're juvenile, vile and morally bankrupt self-serving elitists as well.


             
          • jennydoe posted at 7:32 pm on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            HTIC, you do have the choice of murder. It is an absolute. Sometimes society makes you pay a price, and sometimes it doesn't. Heck JEB thinks a number of posters should off themselves. (I think that is a violation of the rules.)

            http://dailyinterlake.com/news/local_montana/article_b233226c-a237-11e2-8165-001a4bcf887a.html

            Many a women have naturally occuring abortions. Like soldiers, not all embryos are safe.
            All women should have the right to choose what they feel is best, with effecient medical care as needed.

            Believe me, If you were my husband I'd pay you to leave....and then some. Normally I wouldn't consider an abortion, but if you got me pregnant, I'd be first in line. The Government would be happy to pay just not to have a junior hightech running around. The community would rejoice and hold me in highest regards.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 7:03 pm on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6604

            http://billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/montana/lawmaker-s-warning-to-renters-sparks-controversy/article_58c06f60-e7fc-59a1-aaef-65771ece2754.html
            "Billings lawmaker's 'warning' to renters sparks controversy"

            1 hour ago • By Tom Lutey(0) Comments

            Hagstrom's letter to tenants

            A South Billings landlord and state legislator is warning low-income renters to accept that they don’t need “to live as long as they currently do, or as ‘comfortably’ as they currently do.”

            In an April 1 letter to his low-income tenants, Republican Rep. Dave Hagstrom warned that as a result of living beyond its means, America was due for sharp reductions in government spending that could affect everything from health care and social security to hot lunch. Many of the programs cited are used by Hagstrom’s tenants, who he said were, like all Americans, “living in a bit of a fairytale lifestyle.”

            Tax records show Hagstrom owns 11 rental properties, including 18 apartment units and homes with a combined 26 bedrooms.

            Renters who spoke with The Gazette said they were offended by the legislator’s comments, but not surprised. Because the letter was dated April 1, some of its recipients assumed it was an April Fools joke. It was not.

            Hagstrom also warned renters “to accept the fact that you and your neighbor are going to have to work harder than ever, may take a second or third job and live on less,” and they should begin taking in family members who need help, “even if you could pawn them off on the government.”

            Thursday, Hagstrom said he wrote his tenants out of respect and esteem and because soon America will not be able to provide the level of public services it currently does, particularly for seniors whose medical costs ratchet up in the final years of life. Particularly in Montana, where the population is rapidly graying, the burden of care is significant, he said.

            “My concern is that the level of care that we’ve come to expect between the age of 65 and death will at some point in time have to be curtailed,” Hagstrom said.

            One renter, fearing eviction if Hagstrom read his name in the newspaper, said his life has been anything but a fairy tale as he turns to public assistance for basic care. Furthermore, he said every month, 90 percent of his income is passed on to Hagstrom in the form of rent.

            “He’s getting fat off of people like me because on the South Side a good percentage of his tenants are taking 90 percent of their funding and giving it to him,” the renter said. “After I pay him, I don’t have money to go to Wal-Mart and buy T-shirts. He’s getting fat off the people he’s trying to take benefits from.”

            Another renter, also fearing eviction if publicly identified, said Hagstrom is a nice guy, but his politics are what they are.

            "He's a Republican. That's what all Republicans believe," the man said, as he cooked dinner in his driveway surrounded by rundown homes with small yards and fading paint jobs. "Veterans, poor people, haven't they paid enough? America is best when everyone is equal. If I got to pay 15 percent of my income in taxes, the rich should have to pay 15 percent, too."

            In his first term as a legislator representing South Billings, Hagstrom’s votes on public assistance have been conservative.

            He voted against bringing House Bill 98 to the House floor. The bill would have allowed more money for free and reduced lunch programs targeting low-income children in public schools.

            Hagstrom voted to eliminate Title X funding, which at Planned Parenthood pays for cancer screenings, contraception and other preventative care for women.

            Hagstrom also opposed increasing the maximum residential property tax credits available to seniors paying individual income taxes. The measure was in House Bill 272.

            And Hagstrom voted against bringing Medicaid expansion to the House floor for a vote. House Bill 590 would extend Medicaid to Montanans earning less than $15,400 a year. Currently, the income cut off for Medicaid is slightly less than $11,600. The expansion would provide medical care to roughly 60,000 Montanans.

            Medicaid expansion has been one of the most contentious issues at the 2013 Legislature, but it isn’t as unpopular as some lawmakers would have constituents believe, said Sheena Rice, Eastern Montana organizer and lobbyist for the Montana Organizing Project.

            There are lawmakers who share Hagstrom’s sentiments about public assistance, but most don’t, she said.

            “Sadly, I think it is shared by other lawmakers, but I don’t think it’s shared by a majority of lawmakers. There is a vocal minority,” Rice said.

            Rice works in Billings when the Legislature isn’t in session and she knows several of Hagstrom’s renters who have worked with the Montana Organizing Project. She said some of those renters are incapable of taking Hagstrom’s advice.

            “A lot of the tenants in his buildings are disabled. They can’t work three jobs,” Rice said. “And is he saying that they should just die?

            “I just think it shows how out of touch he is with what Montanans living on the brink of poverty have to deal with.”

            Hagstrom is not a stranger to low-income housing. His efforts to provide housing in South Billings have been profiled in The Gazette more than once. He admits that a strong current of federal dollars flows through his housing developments, as well as the 11 properties from which he collects rent. Some of his renters rely on the federal Housing Voucher Program, often called Section 8.

            Federal Housing and Urban Development records also show at least $174,119 in subsidies going to low-income housing projects spearheaded by organizations in which Hagstrom played key roles. Those subsidies were part of the federal Low Income Housing Tax Credit program.

            Because government subsidies play a strong role in Hagstrom's business, the lawmaker said he too will be affected when the federal government starts cutting funding.

            "It may be hard advice and I'm not opposed to hard advice," Hagstrom said of his letter. "You need to understand the context of the communication here. The context is a relationship between me and the tenants and I absolutely care about them."

            At the end of the letter, Hagstrom wished his tenants a restful Easter.

            Read more: http://billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/montana/billings-lawmaker-s-warning-to-renters-sparks-controversy/article_58c06f60-e7fc-59a1-aaef-65771ece2754.html#ixzz2QCsGjs95

             
          • Pete posted at 6:47 pm on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            HighTechCowboy posted at 6:27 pm on Thu, Apr 11, 2013

            [smile]

             
          • Pete posted at 6:42 pm on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Brilliant.

            US gives 4 more F-16 fighter jets to Egyptian government despite outcry

            Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/04/11/us-gives-4-more-f-16-fighter-jets-to-egyptian-government/?test=latestnews#ixzz2QCmyQicO

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 6:36 pm on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            jennyDoh: I have my own feelings on which situations may be morally wrong, but I am not the one to impose upon another, as it is none of my business of another's situation and the decision they make. Nor should you make it yours.
            I accept the fact that abortion happens, and as with most scenarios in life, some take it to the extreme.

            HTC: Murder happens, too; so, let's carry your logic a little further. If there's no such thing as moral absolutes, then why should I consider murder wrong just because you and others do? If I were your husband and wanted to leave you but it would cost me a fortune to do so, why shouldn't I ignore those ridiculous efforts by others to impose their own moral restrictions against murder on me?

            I mean, if I wish to terminate that relationship, why shouldn't I have the 'right to choose' to do so?

             
          • Pete posted at 6:34 pm on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            What a bunch of idiots.

            DEMOCRATS ARE BLOCKING RESOLUTION TO HONOR LADY THATCHER

            http://heritageaction.com/2013/04/democrats-are-blocking-resolution-to-honor-lady-thatcher/

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 6:31 pm on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            Pete: "Good Morning Chicago....If you're going to live in a war zone - why not join the military? The government will still pay for your room and board, BUT they'll also give you a weapon to legally defend yourself. See your Army Recruiter today!"

            Here's Roger Ebert's response from beyond the grave: [thumbup][thumbup]

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 6:27 pm on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            fish: You may proceed sir.....

            HTC: I have a better idea. Why don't you proceed to make your case, whatever that might be. If you know anything about statistics and cause-and-effect, then you know that correlation does not equal causation.

            So please state your case and proceed with evidence that does support your assertion.

            Why should we assume the burden of proving false a baseless accusation of yours? You clearly wish to make a point, so now substantiate it.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 6:02 pm on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            JEB, you ask how and why I oppose abortions. Since I am not a fan or lover of abortions you assume I oppose them? I am for a women's right to choose the outcome of her pregnancy. I am for safe medical procedures either way, whether she chooses to give birth or terminate her pregnancy. I have my own feelings on which situations may be morally wrong, but I am not the one to impose upon another, as it is none of my business of another's situation and the decision they make. Nor should you make it yours.
            I accept the fact that abortion happens, and as with most scenarios in life, some take it to the extreme.

             
          • Pete posted at 2:51 pm on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Rob123 posted at 1:43 pm on Thu, Apr 11, 2013

            "It's always best to know what you are up against, in order to plan a defense or an attack. C student George W Bush (who I voted for) comes to mind, as an abject failure. Obama is his equal."

            ?

            "Kids! Raw Meat....Cherries......It's an assembly line. And it's well thought out, and quite self-serving."

            So, some Hollywood lefties were granted special access by a liberal administration to make a movie for the Pentagon in order to recruit kids for military forces that the self-same liberal administration is reducing? Besides being a silly scenario it is hardly needed....Obama's policies are the best recruiting tool the Pentagon has, especially among minorities.

            "Good Morning Chicago....If you're going to live in a war zone - why not join the military? The government will still pay for your room and board, BUT they'll also give you a weapon to legally defend yourself. See your Army Recruiter today!"

             
          • fish posted at 2:47 pm on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

            fish Posts: 130

            Frank said: Clarification for SorrySOB: Statistics should be held in the very lowest regard until they are analyzed using logic and found to be accurate representations of reality. --Frank

            So I found a stat for you to analyze using logic and clear vision:

            Despite the fact that women have graduated from law schools in equal numbers for over twenty years, only 16-19% of law firm partners are women.

            You may proceed sir --Karl

             
          • mooseberryinn posted at 2:40 pm on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

            mooseberryinn Posts: 2693

            HTC 2;21 4/11 - Amen, 100% correct. The King Obama/Demo-dummy wrecking-ball regime has been the worst disaster since the Civil War. The problem is He really wants to be a King, or Dictator, or maybe "Comrade Emperor". He wants things his way regardless of our Constitution. His "transforming" of America to a communist nation has got to be stopped. The sooner the better.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 2:29 pm on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6604

            http://www.cnbc.com/id/100632206

            "These 12 Banks Got the Fed Minutes a Day Early"

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 2:21 pm on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            Rob123: Obama is his equal.

            HTC: Let's give credit where credit is due. Bush left a lot to be desired in many ways; but, Obama clearly excels in both the idiot department as well as the "how much damage can I do to the economy" department.

            Oh, and Obama clearly is tops in the Liar-in-Chief department as well.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 1:43 pm on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6604

            Pete: "What a completely meaningless statement. If I say, "The folks who want to BAN ALL FREE PRESS are a small and vocal minority" does that make you feel better about those who only want to ban political speech? "

            It's always best to know what you are up against, in order to plan a defense or an attack. C student George W Bush (who I voted for) comes to mind, as an abject failure. Obama is his equal.
            ----------------------------
            Pete: " Recruiting for who? Obama voters? If that's the best you can do my point was well made."

            Kids! Raw Meat....Cherries......It's an assembly line. And it's well thought out, and quite self-serving.

             
          • Pete posted at 1:20 pm on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            "IRS: We can read emails without warrant"

            http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-valley/technology/292989-irs-claims-it-can-read-emails-without-a-warrant

            They don't want to read ALL the emails....just the ones they want to read.

             
          • Pete posted at 1:16 pm on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Rob123 posted at 12:23 pm on Thu, Apr 11, 2013

            "The folks who want to BAN ALL GUNS are small and vocal..."

            What a completely meaningless statement. If I say, "The folks who want to BAN ALL FREE PRESS are a small and vocal minority" does that make you feel better about those who only want to ban political speech? The logic is either completely naive or willfully ignorant. Once more, you can't defend your double standard.

             
          • Pete posted at 12:58 pm on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Rob123 posted at 12:28 pm on Thu, Apr 11, 2013

            You'll remember ZDT's release was bumped out past the election because of the controversy over access from the O administration and the accusations it was a re-election film for Barry the Warrior King.

             
          • Pete posted at 12:55 pm on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Rob123 posted at 12:28 pm on Thu, Apr 11, 2013

            [beam] Recruiting for who? Obama voters? If that's the best you can do my point was well made.

             
          • mooseberryinn posted at 12:45 pm on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

            mooseberryinn Posts: 2693

            Golly, comments all over the spectrum. So - Jane Fonda - an old has-been hag, not qualified to play Nancy Reagan on any level. Gun "control" is a waste. It will not control criminal elements at all. It will serve as a "registry" of gun owners for federal regime. Most definitely not a tool free Americans should hand over to this regime. "Control" legislation will become a wedge or lever to weaken our constitutional rights. As King Obama said; He'd "like to replace the constitution". Yeah, I'm sure he would.

             
          • Pete posted at 12:42 pm on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            HighTechCowboy posted at 12:04 pm on Thu, Apr 11, 2013

            "It never ceases to amaze me how effective such emotion-charged manipulation is on such a large proportion of the electorate."

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQeYw0HCbeI

             
          • Rob123 posted at 12:28 pm on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6604

            Pete: "Yea, we all know how right-wing Hollywood is?"

            Excuse Me! Zero Dark Thirty? And many, many more, with a lot of free access and time supplied by the Pentagon, if they like the script. It's a recruitment tool. The new John Wayne. It is what it is.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 12:23 pm on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6604

            Pete: "Yet you have no problem trimming away on the 2nd Amendment....and in fact you ridicule the very idea that we should be concerned. "

            Hey! If you feel strongly enough to rise up and, using the Laws of our Republic, try to stop an injustice that is happening to your perceived 2nd Amendment, go for it. But remember, make sure you have a good lawyer, and be prepared to lose. But for gawd sakes, stand up and be counted. All this political bellyaching is getting old. Just because I think Background checks and such ARE GOOD, doesn't make me anti-2nd Amendment. The folks who want to BAN ALL GUNS are small and vocal, just like the group who wants COMPLETE Laissez faire Gun Sales-Trades-Swaps. The world has changed.

             
          • Pete posted at 12:10 pm on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Rob123 posted at 10:18 am on Thu, Apr 11, 2013

            "Right Wing-Hollywood Inspired, Urban Legend"

            Yea, we all know how right-wing Hollywood is?

            "The biggest thing students need to understand, as far as soldiers coming home, is the ability for civilians to distinguish between "Support our Troops" and "The Mission". The Mission, both then and our current Wars of Convenience in Iraq and Afghanistan, are products of American Geopolitical Naivete, and just plumb shouldn't have happened. IMHO."

            How about adding a third angle to "Support our Troops" and "The Mission"? That would be the influence of "Political Correctness" on war decisions. You can have perfectly legitimate and worthy objectives completely fubar-ed by idiots imposing arbitrary PC standards on implementation. The real question is if this "Political Correctness" represents naivete or outright Machiavellian political strategy at the expense of Mission and Troops.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 12:09 pm on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6604

            Pete: "I'm sorry you can't admit the discrepancies in your argument, because that only makes you look dishonest."

            Oh Pete......gawd.
            ----------------------------------------
            HTC: "Believe it or not, I'm cutting you a fair bit of slack because you did serve and, for that, I thank you."

            You ridiculous, pompous azz.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 12:04 pm on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            Pete: "Instead we saw clips of Newtown families (on Piers Morgan, naturally) pleading for gun control...."

            HTC: It never ceases to amaze me how effective such emotion-charged manipulation is on such a large proportion of the electorate. As a society, we seem to have lost sight of much of what is to be expected from real adults, including the ability to recognize such cheap efforts at manipulation and rejection of those who use it instead of reasoned, fact-based arguments.

            Little wonder, then, that in a nation of children masquerading as adults that Obama managed to secure reelection.

            But emotion is all the Democrats have to work with because the facts are rarely on their side;so, it is understandable why they would depend upon it and why their wh0res in the media would utilize it as well.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 11:55 am on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            Rob123: The biggest thing students need to understand, as far as soldiers coming home, is the ability for civilians to distinguish between "Support our Troops" and "The Mission". The Mission, both then and our current Wars of Convenience in Iraq and Afghanistan, are products of American Geopolitical Naivete, and just plumb shouldn't have happened. IMHO."

            HTC: Believe it or not, I'm cutting you a fair bit of slack because you did serve and, for that, I thank you.

            While it is important for everyone to distinguish between supporting our troops versus supporting the mission, that's much more difficult in practice for everyone involved, especially our service personnel who are then being asked to differentiate between their general service to their country as an academic concept versus their specific "lived it" involvement in an unpopular mission. I fear for many servicemen and women, their efforts to maintain that purely intellectual division probably only increases their stress levels and further confuses an already troubled mind.

            But to call the conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq mere "Wars of Convenience" cheapens the lessons to be learned from our own history and only further muddies already clouded waters. Not every conflict Is another Vietnam.

             
          • Pete posted at 11:46 am on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Rob123 posted at 10:39 am on Thu, Apr 11, 2013

            "You got that wrong.....I was the 'Test Case', the 'Lab Rat' held up by State and Out of State money (Charles Keating ring a bell?)......and I whooped there azz, and stifled their little exercise in stifling the 1st Amendment. I set a precedent, and the neo-fascist boyz from church never quite got over it. Although they were surprised when I counter-sued and won 'Expenses only' and did not go after their deep pockets for the aggravation of it all. That's just not me. Even the Judge was impressed."

            See...that's what I'm talking about. You have no problem calling folks who wanted to trim your 1st Amendment rights "neo-fascists" (And you presumably believe it.) Yet you have no problem trimming away on the 2nd Amendment....and in fact you ridicule the very idea that we should be concerned. Well excuse me MR. FREEDOM FIGHTER but your double standard is ridiculous. I'm sure the folks who wanted to regulate your magazines weren't interested in banning Reader's Digest....just your fringe materials? Does that sound familiar? I'm sorry you can't admit the discrepancies in your argument, because that only makes you look dishonest.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 10:39 am on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6604

            Pete: "Whereas you faced some local yokels, gun owners are facing the might, and treasury of the STATE. Talk about taking it to a whole new level."

            You got that wrong.....I was the 'Test Case', the 'Lab Rat' held up by State and Out of State money (Charles Keating ring a bell?)......and I whooped there azz, and stifled their little exercise in stifling the 1st Amendment. I set a precedent, and the neo-fascist boyz from church never quite got over it. Although they were surprised when I counter-sued and won 'Expenses only' and did not go after their deep pockets for the aggravation of it all. That's just not me. Even the Judge was impressed.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 10:18 am on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6604

            HighTechCowboy posted at 9:20 am on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.
            Here is my whole reply to my son......for your enjoyment and ridicule, I am sure......

            "Josh: I just watched the whole documentary, and it was well done, and pretty balanced. As someone who was there at the time, about 100 miles South in 11Corps, I of course could interject some stuff, but for a History Class, it's pretty accurate.

            When I returned from Vietnam (16Jun70), just after Kent State and such, I didn't have any personal insults thrown at me while walking through the SeaTac airport after being discharged. Although almost every film about Vietnam talks about this, and all the spitting that supposedly happened, I can't find any Veteran who actually experienced this. Although many, many Veterans say "I know a friend who was ridiculed"......I think it is a Right Wing-Hollywood Inspired, Urban Legend......And like most Urban Myths, takes on a life of it's own.

            The biggest thing students need to understand, as far as soldiers coming home, is the ability for civilians to distinguish between "Support our Troops" and "The Mission". The Mission, both then and our current Wars of Convenience in Iraq and Afghanistan, are products of American Geopolitical Naivete, and just plumb shouldn't have happened. IMHO."

             
          • Pete posted at 10:02 am on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            That last post should have had quotes around it...and was found here.

            http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2013/04/11/Pro-Gun-Control-Senator-to-CNN-Anchor-We-Appreciate-Your-Support

             
          • Pete posted at 10:01 am on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            None of this is should come as a surprise. Tuesday, CNN came out of the closet with an open declaration that "The Most Trusted Name In News" would use two full days of programming as a propaganda push for legislation tightening background checks. CNN has been so good about keeping that promise that this morning a pro-gun control Senator thanked a CNN anchor for his support.

            Wednesday morning on "Starting Point," anchors John Berman and Christine Roman hosted Sen. Joe Manchin (D-WV), one of the two senators responsible for the compromise legislation on background checks.

            The segment was disgraceful.

            Neither anchor challenged the Senator about a single concern Second Amendment activists have with the legislation. Instead we saw clips of Newtown families (on Piers Morgan, naturally) pleading for gun control and Roman using the old "some say" ploy to claim the legislation wasn't tough enough. The only mention of the NRA was their opposition to the bill.

            And then, appropriately enough, the segment ended with Manchin thanking Berman for his support:

            Berman: Senator Joe Manchin from West Virginia, you've been working around the clock for a compromise deal. I think you have a very busy few weeks ahead of you still.

            Manchin: We appreciate your support, too, this is very, very important.

            Or maybe Manchin was thanking the CNN network as whole?

            What an indictment of "The Most Trusted Name in News" that we will never know.

            How shameful that an entity that describes itself as a "news" network would create the kind of environment where a Senator involved in controversial legislation would feel so much love and support he felt the need to say thank you.

            By the way, Berman didn't even flinch after being thanked for taking a side.

             
          • Pete posted at 9:52 am on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            "If there's anything that I would hope comes of this book, it's that people begin to understand that it's the kids that have to clean up the messes of the adults when it comes to war. War is not the extension of diplomacy by other means. That's horsesh**. War is the result of the failure of diplomacy. And then kids are the best weapons. You had better pick your battle and not waste that precious resource. If you read this book, you'll understand what it really takes to be engaged in combat, and what it does to people. Don't ever commit these people lightly. I'm not a pacifist—there are times when it has to be done. But by God, you'd better be sure. And if you put them into situations where it's unclear—and we're doing that—then I think that you'd better get it cleared up." - Karl Marlantes

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 9:25 am on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            Jane Fonda tells veterans to "get a life":

            http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2013/04/11/jane-fonda-tells-veterans-boycotting-her-movie-butler-to-get-life/?intcmp=features

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 9:20 am on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            Rob123: As a side note, my son sent me this you-tube video which he is going to show in a History Class which he is subbing in today at the College Prep High School he teaches in, and wanted my opinion of it. I found it pretty good, for a balanced High School History Class, Et tu?

            HTC: I trust you paid careful attention to the last several minutes which described the abuse that many (mostly lefties) heaped upon our returning servicemen; you know, the abuse that you not long ago insisted was merely a right-wing fabrication.

            No doubt much of the dramatic increase in PTSD that we saw among Vietnam veterans versus our WW II veterans was due to the fact that, unlike their fathers and uncles who came home from WW II as war heroes and who had pride in their service and their patriotic duty to hang onto as an anchor against the mental storms that they, too, experienced, these brave young men like Mr. WikWik were despised and shunned and felt that they had to hide their involvement in a conflict they had no part in creating.

            It seems extremely peculiar to me that you would not see the threat that government gun control represents, when you clearly don't believe that the government values life, whether we're talking about 'collateral' damage abroad or sending our own youth into a meat grinder like Hamburger Hill.

            Have these horrors taught you nothing?

             
          • Pete posted at 8:43 am on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            jennydoe posted at 5:56 am on Thu, Apr 11, 2013

            They were your definitions not mine.

             
          • Pete posted at 8:42 am on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Rob123 posted at 4:37 am on Thu, Apr 11, 2013

            "Apples and Oranges, Pete.....I made some concessions, and stayed reasonable and polite, but the same minority of Ultra-Conservative's and their BYU educated County Attorney decided to take it to a whole new level, and instead of being intimidated, I said "OK", and went in front of a Jury and won. And the County Attorney lost in the next election. Part of the American Experience?"

            Apples and Oranges? Your apples and someone else's oranges maybe. I think the squeeze being put on gun owners now is much worse. Whereas you faced some local yokels, gun owners are facing the might, and treasury of the STATE. Talk about taking it to a whole new level.

            "Magazine size limits, background checks, even Ammo with embedded Point of Sell markers, are OK in my interpretation of the 2nd Amendment. On e-mails and facebook stuff with friends and family who reside on the West Coast, I am seen as a Red State Republican Gun Nut. Yet here on the DIL, I am made out as a Left Wing Progressive-Socialist Scum Bag. "America, what a country, eh?" Sometimes toning down one's rhetoric and taking one's own pulse is a good thing!"

            Since when does your interpretation or my interpretation trump the Constitution as interpreted by the founders and backed by 200 years of precedent? I'm sure the County Attorney was "OK" with his interpretation of the 1st Amendment...but it didn't make it right? Why are you using the very argument used against you? Inalienable rights do not depend on the mood of the majority to be valid.

            "As a side note, my son sent me this you-tube video which he is going to show in a History Class which he is subbing in today at the College Prep High School he teaches in, and wanted my opinion of it. I found it pretty good, for a balanced High School History Class, Et tu?"

            Yea, I've watched that program before and it elicits lots of emotion. Admiration, anger, sadness, etc. Of course it takes a deft hand to place it in it's historical context without agenda...and I'll leave it at that.

            Oh, and by the by....you did catch the end? The experiences of the men coming home? I think we had a mini-debate about that a while back?

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:31 am on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            Rob123: Magazine size limits, background checks, even Ammo with embedded Point of Sell markers, are OK in my interpretation of the 2nd Amendment.

            HTC: Obviously you either fail to understand the true purpose of the Second Amendment or choose to ignore it; so, let me repeat it. The purpose of the Second Amendment is to guarantee that the people have the means to resist their government should it become oppressive to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

            After all, the people and the states created the federal government, and not the other way around. And why did they do so? So that that government could help to protect their right to that same "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." When that government seeks to rule and direct them and to preempt the sovereignty of the states, rather than protect and defend their liberty, they have a right to dissolve that government.

            Because of the REAL history and purpose of the Second Amendment, SCOTUS (U.S. v Miller) has already determined that the Second Amendment may, in fact, only protect our right to own weapons of military application since it would potentially be our own military being used against us.

            I'm certain there are many who would nearly wet themselves just thinking about that, but liberty does not belong to the weak and the timid.

            In light of all that, ANY laws which restrict magazine capacity, or firearm characteristics which make them similar to those used by the military, make it possible or easier for the government to track who has what in the way of arms and ammunition, or makes it easier for the government to restrict access to those firearms and ammunition by those THEY deem to be a threat (to themselves), are in clear violation of the Second Amendment's edict that their rights "shall NOT be infringed."

            Furthermore, NONE of these measures have one iota of effect in curbing violence as the recent knife attack in Texas just proved, and as does decades of such laws which have accomplished nothing other than to make the world safer for violent criminals by disarming the public.

            Anyone who would willing risk their Second Amendment rights and ultimately their freedom over non-starter, fake solutions to violence is a fool indeed.

            The solution to violence is a better mental health care system and a well-armed population which can guarantee that any perpetrator who attempts to harm them will quickly discover whether or not there is life after death.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:11 am on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            It all comes down to mental illness
            Dr. Keith Ablow
            April 10, 2013

            Dylan Quick, the 20-year-old accused of going on a stabbing rampage yesterday—injuring 14 people at Lone Star Community College in Texas—should settle the gun control/violence debate, once and for all.

            That won’t happen, of course, because people who want to restrict personal freedoms will still turn a blind eye to the obvious: After years of America destroying its mental health care system, leaving it in ruins, as a national disgrace, cases of undiagnosed and untreated mental illness are to blame for the horrific episodes of violence that have made headlines and wrongly fueled gun control legislation.

            This is true for Jared Lee Loughner, who shot Congressman Gabrielle Giffords in Tucson, Arizona. It is true for James Holmes, the man accused of murdering 12 people in a Colorado movie theatre. It is true for Adam Lanza, the man who murdered 20 children and 6 adults at the Sandy Hook Elementary School in Connecticut.

            Dylan Quick reportedly fantasized about killing people by stabbing them since he was a child. He reportedly walked around wearing gloves, even in warm weather, clutching stuffed animals.

            I believe it will turn out that Mr. Quick, like the rest of the recent perpetrators of mass violence, fell through the colossal cracks in our decrepit system. A system of antiquated psychiatric facilities, understaffed community mental health centers and insurance companies hell-bent on restricting mental health care resources in a disproportionate fashion, compared to those targeted at other illnesses, and one which is a shameful show of prejudice towards the afflicted.

            Anyone who now advocates limiting public access to knives of one kind or another, including the kind allegedly used by Mr. Quick, is either hopelessly misguided or a charlatan looking to make political points from this latest tragedy.

            When America allowed third-party insurers to decide how to appropriate mental health care resources, like wolves at chicken coops, the seeds of the tragedies in Arizona and Colorado and Connecticut and, now, Texas were being sown.

            When American psychiatrists decided to allow the American Psychiatric Association to coax so many in my profession out of their role as expert therapists who also prescribe medicines and into the role of “medication” doctors seeing patients for ten minutes, the seeds of these tragedies were being sown.

            When state legislators and public health officials decided that shutting down state hospitals and financially choking community mental health centers nearly to death was okay, the seeds of these tragedies were being sown.

            And when state and federal legislators dally with meaningless measures targeted at guns or knives, instead of the very ill folks who sometimes use them to hurt others, they sow the seeds of tomorrow’s tragedies.

            There’s a reason why investigators and prosecutors and reporters and the public have such a hard time understanding the motives of men like Loughner, Holmes, Lanza and, if reports are true, Quick. It's because their motives are shrouded in the irrational thoughts born of mental illness, often in its most aggressive incarnation—psychosis.

            Take all the guns away.

            Take all the knives away.

            The number of victims of murders with no apparent motive—born of under-treated, poorly treated or untreated mental illness—will be reduced not one bit.

            Because there will still be cars, and poisons, and hammers, and axes that can be used to inflict horrible injuries. The worst episode of school violence, back in 1927, claimed the lives of 38 children, and it involved explosives, not guns or knives.

            Leaders either fix things, do nothing or harm needed efforts. Those who would control weapons, instead of mental illness, are in the third category.

            Dr. Keith Ablow is a psychiatrist and member of the Fox News Medical A-Team. Dr. Ablow can be reached at info@keithablow.com.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 7:33 am on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            jennydoe posted at 5:54 am on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

            ............fine,

            Explain in detail then how and why you oppose abortions, OK..........???

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 7:24 am on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            Rob123: You're a real piece of work, and an educated fool.

            HTC: Really? Hey, unlike you, I never voted for Obama; so, who's the bigger fool here?

             
          • jennydoe posted at 5:56 am on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            Pete posted at 1:01 pm on Wed, Apr 10, 2013

            you're way off the mark again.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 5:54 am on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            JEB, in your own little warped mind and on this blog you've stated that I was a fan of abortions and had a love for abortions. You are beyond comprehension. I really think you need your meds adjusted again. Or could you be the ghost of jbstone, as you were telling us all recently how you were 100% disabled. I guess you'll stop being a jerk when you really are.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 4:37 am on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6604

            Pete posted at 9:24 pm on Wed, Apr 10, 2013.

            Apples and Oranges, Pete.....I made some concessions, and stayed reasonable and polite, but the same minority of Ultra-Conservative's and their BYU educated County Attorney decided to take it to a whole new level, and instead of being intimidated, I said "OK", and went in front of a Jury and won. And the County Attorney lost in the next election. Part of the American Experience?

            Magazine size limits, background checks, even Ammo with embedded Point of Sell markers, are OK in my interpretation of the 2nd Amendment. On e-mails and facebook stuff with friends and family who reside on the West Coast, I am seen as a Red State Republican Gun Nut. Yet here on the DIL, I am made out as a Left Wing Progressive-Socialist Scum Bag. "America, what a country, eh?" Sometimes toning down one's rhetoric and taking one's own pulse is a good thing!
            ---------------------
            As a side note, my son sent me this you-tube video which he is going to show in a History Class which he is subbing in today at the College Prep High School he teaches in, and wanted my opinion of it. I found it pretty good, for a balanced High School History Class, Et tu?

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pr54QBg57RE&feature=em-share_video_user
            -----------------------------------------
            HighTechCowboy posted at 8:19 pm on Wed, Apr 10, 2013.
            [tongue]
            You're a real piece of work, and an educated fool.

             
          • Pete posted at 9:24 pm on Wed, Apr 10, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Rob123 posted at 7:00 pm on Wed, Apr 10, 2013

            "I don't know, Pete."

            I don't either. I would think a person so passionate about 1st Amendment magazines would be equally passionate about 2nd Amendment magazines? But I guess not.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:19 pm on Wed, Apr 10, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            What a surprise! The latest budget proposal from the POtuS includes a fresh round of another trillion dollars in taxes and fees (after getting nearly a trillion dollars in new taxes a couple of months ago), and NOTHING in the way of actual spending cuts.

            This is the Liar-in-Chief's idea of a "balanced" approach to our massive deficits. Never mind that his last round of tax increases, against the advice of economists, has already started to slow the economy as we now seem headed for a new reality where any growth in GDP above 1% will appear miraculous.

            Buried within the proposal are many new taxes and fees on the poor and middle class, who Obama consistently promised to spare, as well as a hefty increase in the tobacco tax (which primarily impacts the poor) and decreased deductions for charity which are intended to make the poor even more dependent upon a government which is already bankrupt.

            Will the poor and middle class households that voted for this Marxist pig going to finally wake up or are they poor because they're stupid?

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:10 pm on Wed, Apr 10, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            Rob123: Or, just the kind of information needed to prevent cyber attacks and actual sabotage at certain cyber choke points.......ye olde "Art of War" stuff for the present day? But feel free to suck it all into your 2nd Amendment paranoia.

            HTC: Well, since I've probably already forgotten more than you'll ever know about networking technology, I know that's not how you deal with cyber attacks. The tools for dealing with those kinds of attacks need to be deployed more quickly, need to be remotely manageable and need to be as automated as possible.

            There's only two situations where you need to know who in management can serve as liaisons with government: (1) To request data on customers and their traffic and (2) to shut down services in case of an 'emergency.'

            So please feel free, in your abundant ignorance, to simply ignore the fact that Obama has been pushing for complete government control of the Internet and just chalk up such talk to "Second Amendment paranoia." After all, what happened in Russia, Germany, Italy and China could NEVER happen here.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 7:00 pm on Wed, Apr 10, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6604

            Pete posted at 5:37 pm on Wed, Apr 10, 2013.
            Posts: 2361
            Rob123 posted at 4:43 pm on Wed, Apr 10, 2013
            You sure are selective about which amendment gets whacked...why is that?
            --------------------------------
            I don't know, Pete. But some of the comments at the bottom of the blog are pretty good.....
            Cameron McCurry
            Every time someone thinks a Duffel Blog story is real, an angel gets its wings.
            Reply · 234 · Like · Follow Post · January 10 at 12:16pm
            ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            HTC: "You know, just the kind of services a government might want to shut down during an imposition of 'martial law'."
            ---------
            Or, just the kind of information needed to prevent cyber attacks and actual sabotage at certain cyber choke points.......ye olde "Art of War" stuff for the present day? But feel free to suck it all into your 2nd Amendment paranoia.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 5:55 pm on Wed, Apr 10, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            I forgot to mention that the reference to Clinger, PA (which doesn't exist) was great tongue-in-cheek considering that it was in rural PA where Obama made his infamous reference to people who "cling to their God and their guns." Mr. Obama clearly does have considerable disdain for these "clingers."

            I do want to be clear, however, that my post about my friends in the rural wireless business is 100% serious. I am NOT pulling anyone's leg on that matter.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 5:38 pm on Wed, Apr 10, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            Rob123: Military Drawing Up Plans for Nation-wide Gun Confiscations

            HTC: Interestingly, some of my friends in the rural wireless business have recently received requests for full contact information for officers and security personnel who might serve as business liaisons with law enforcement agencies. Seems the company asking for this info is building a national database and mapping of all landline-based, fiber optic and wireless phone and data services across the country.

            You know, just the kind of services a government might want to shut down during an imposition of 'martial law'.

            Not that I'm suggesting that the POtuS currently in the Oval Office would ever do that.....

             
          • Pete posted at 5:37 pm on Wed, Apr 10, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Rob123 posted at 4:43 pm on Wed, Apr 10, 2013

            You sure are selective about which amendment gets whacked...why is that?

             
          • Rob123 posted at 4:43 pm on Wed, Apr 10, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6604

            Military Drawing Up Plans for Nation-wide Gun Confiscations

            WASHINGTON, DC – A senior U.S. general has confirmed that the military has secretly drawn up plans to round up large numbers of privately-owned firearms from American gun owners.

            General James M. Scott of the U.S. Air Force confirmed that the Pentagon received a series of formal directives from the White House between November 7 and December 13 to begin plans for a massive nationwide operation to confiscate guns using a series of federal databases compiled over the last few decades.

            General Scott spoke with Duffel Blog reporters in a parking garage in northern Virginia.
            Scott also confirmed that a certain four-star general who heads the U.S. Transportation Command was intimately involved in the planning. General Scott would not reveal the general’s name out of concerns for his safety.

            The plan, known in the military as Operation PREAKNESS, combines a series of tactics developed for house sweeps and room clearing in Iraq and Afghanistan, which General Scott admitted had been used as test-runs for the U.S.
            “If we can confiscate millions of firearms in a country where we don’t speak the language or understand the culture, the U.S. should be easy,” General Scott told The Duffel Blog. “I just feel sorry for that poor Osama fellow we had to kill to justify the whole thing.”

            In a dress rehearsal for America, these three Iraqi men have their Second Amendment rights violated
            According to Scott, the actual planning for Operation PREAKNESS was initiated in early 2009 and developed in conjunction with the United Nations, Senator Dianne Feinstein, and several other liberal organizations such as the National Organization for Women, Planned Parenthood, Greenpeace, the American Federation of Labor, and the National Rifle Association, which is apparently a front for all the previous groups.

            While there was initially some concern about the constitutionality of using the military on American soil, page 2131 of the ObamaCare Act actually amends the Posse Comitatus law to allow the military to disarm private citizens at the direction of the Secretary of Homeland Security. Objections by then-CIA Director David Petraeus were quietly silenced in November.

            A test-run for PREAKNESS was actually conducted in early December in Clinger, Pennsylvania. A joint platoon of Army Rangers and UN Peacekeepers, working with select state and local officials and using imagery collected by the Google Street View Car, quietly went door-to-door and managed to collect all the firearms from Clinger owners.

            The few owners who did complain were initially transported to Fort Leavenworth in Kansas to explain their case before a special international tribunal, before being sent to the National Center For Gun Control in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

            A follow-on operation using just the UN Peacekeepers is planned later this week for any owners missed in the previous sweep, although the Peacekeepers have confirmed they will be using a post office truck to infiltrate the area.

            Read more: http://www.duffelblog.com/2013/01/military-drawing-up-plans-for-nation-wide-gun-confiscations/#ixzz2Q6PfP0nY
            Follow us: @theduffelblog on Twitter | duffelblog on Facebook

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 3:07 pm on Wed, Apr 10, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            Connecticut Gun Manufacturer Announces It's Leaving Connecticut
            April 10, 2013

            BRISTOL, Conn. (AP) — A Connecticut gun-maker has announced it intends to leave the state following the passage of gun control legislation it says tramples on the rights of citizens and does not show enough consideration for the industry.

            Bristol-based PTR says in a statement posted on its website that it has not decided where it will move, but it has commitments from most employees to relocate. The company makes military-style rifles and employs more than 40 people.

            PTR Vice President John McNamara said Wednesday that it expects to make a more formal announcement about a move within six weeks.

            Several Connecticut gun manufacturers have indicated they are thinking about moving after Gov. Dannel P. Malloy last week signed the law imposing new restrictions on weapons and large-capacity magazines.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 2:51 pm on Wed, Apr 10, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            "Gun control" has NEVER been about controlling guns. It's simply about controlling the people and always has been.

            If the political reaction to the Sandy Hook shooting was an honest desire to rid the world of violence, it would be called "violence control", because isn't it "violence" that we wish to reduce and isn't it violence that takes many forms but always has a human as its perpetrator? In fact, even as gun sales have surged over the last four years, we've seen a dramatic DECREASE in gun homicide rates; so, clearly guns don't cause violence, people do.

            Obama and his party do NOT want to have an honest, productive debate about this problem and they need to explain to the American people why they don't and why they won't permit one to occur. And let me be perfectly clear: Accusing Republicans of 'hiding' from the problem because they don't want to take part in enacting fake solutions which won't help and will only infringe upon law-abiding citizens' gun rights is not a 'debate.'

            This president has never wanted an honest debate about ANY of America's problems, whether we're talking about the economy, joblessness, profligate government spending, our failed education system or violence in society. It is HE who is hiding from the people and from the voices of reason.

            America deserves better; that is, at least the part of America that was smart enough not to vote for that tyrant and fraud.


             
          • Pete posted at 2:34 pm on Wed, Apr 10, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            kohana posted at 1:27 pm on Wed, Apr 10, 2013

            Unfortunately most Americans aren't "allowing" anything. They are active participants. They have the President they voted for, believing he'll usher in the "great society" they want. A couple months ago we were told we were crazy to think the Dems wanted to ban weapons....A FEW MONTHS AGO! Now they announce it very proudly....and our own little cadre of progressives on here simply shrug and count it as part of the cost of achieving the "great society". After all, if the Constitution requires a little trimming to get us through the doorway to paradise....trim away.

             
          • mooseberryinn posted at 2:24 pm on Wed, Apr 10, 2013.

            mooseberryinn Posts: 2693

            The bad news about gun "control" is that there are always those who will believe it's a "good cause". I'm sure criminals think so too. The King Obama regime, of course, obviously wants a disarmed America. The good news is there are millions of Americans who don't agree with "control" of their weapons or their lives to the degree apparently being worked at by King Obama/Demo-dummy regime. Has there ever been a time in our history when freedom and liberty has been under such attack? How did it come about that the democratic party has become the communist party?

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 2:05 pm on Wed, Apr 10, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            Liberals OK with wiretapping Republicans but not Terrorists
            BY: CJ Ciaramella, Washington Free Beacon

            Mother Jones released leaked audio Tuesday from a campaign meeting of Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R., Ky.) revealing political campaigns actively research and discuss ways to attack their opponents.

            The audio was about 14 minutes of conversation between McConnell and close advisers on the potential vulnerabilities of Ashley Judd, the liberal Hollywood actress who flirted with the idea of running against McConnell in the 2014 Kentucky Senate race.

            However, the Mother Jones “scoop” elicited a collective yawn from jaded Beltway media.

            “Mitch McConnell discussed the likely vulnerabilities of a possible opponent?” snarked Slate’s Dave Weigel. “He’s history’s greatest monster.”

            Judd Legum, editor of the liberal ThinkProgress blog, said, “From my experience, this is an incredibly tame oppo convo.”

            “Just sayin: Are we supposed to be scandalized by oppo research?” asked NBC’s Mike O’Brien. “You think every campaign (D or R) doesn’t research stuff like mental health?”

            “Nothing in this McConnell piece sounds any worse than a normal campaign meeting,” Hill reporter Sam Baker said.

            “HUGE David Corn scoop,” wrote the Weekly Standard’s Michael Warren. “Mitch McConnell secretly planned to … campaign against a potential opponent?”

            “While the tape isn’t particularly flattering to the McConnell campaign, it seems like standard opposition research,” wrote the Washington Post.

            The McConnell campaign quickly condemned the tape and raised the possibility its office had been bugged.

            “We’ve always said the left would stop at nothing to attack Sen. McConnell, but Watergate-style tactics to bug campaign headquarters are above and beyond,” said McConnell campaign manager Jesse Benton.

            “Sen. McConnell’s campaign is working with the FBI and has notified the local U.S. attorney in Louisville, per FBI request, about these recordings,” Benton said. “Obviously a recording device of some kind was placed in Sen. McConnell’s campaign office without consent. By whom and how that was accomplished presumably will be the subject of a criminal investigation.”

            The National Republican Senatorial Committee also called on Democratic groups to apologize for the audio. The Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee called on McConnell to apologize in response.

             
          • Pete posted at 1:38 pm on Wed, Apr 10, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            What progressives really think about guns....

            http://www.infowars.com/video-democrat-admits-obama-agenda-is-total-gun-ban/

             
          • kohana posted at 1:27 pm on Wed, Apr 10, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            Pete posted at 12:39 pm on Wed, Apr 10, 2013

            Not only did the communist take over there, they are taking over here. Won't be long before a Historian can start documenting the atrocities here. Especially with all the HHS containment camps being built. We know were they are, why are we, as American citizens, allowing them to remain standing awaiting future use? There are several of them right here in Montana.

             
          • Pete posted at 1:01 pm on Wed, Apr 10, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            jennydoe posted at 7:10 am on Wed, Apr 10, 2013

            How nice....abortion is now defined as a, "personal relationship with their unborn children....". Not surprising coming from the person who defined "love" as an temporary sexual experience. Sounds to me like someone who desperately needs to experience a personal relationship based in real love. I hope it happens.

             
          • Pete posted at 12:46 pm on Wed, Apr 10, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Rob123 posted at 10:09 am on Wed, Apr 10, 2013

            Better yet....

            "You would probably love rationalizing progressive policies to the teary eyed Momma who just lost her child to inner-city violence, explaining how progressive policies are saving her from unspeakable political horror.

             
          • Pete posted at 12:39 pm on Wed, Apr 10, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Rob123 posted at 10:09 am on Wed, Apr 10, 2013

            "Political horror" my rear-end. Although I empathize with your personal experience and the resulting antipathy you feel toward war, it does not follow that the alternative was sacrosanct. It certainly was/is not. That "political horror" wasn't a phantom threat, but a very real menace...as history has proven.

            Furthermore, your dig at HTC could easily be turned around. How would you rationalize your indifference to the teary eyed mamasans who have suffered the conditions below for decades? Not a fair question? Neither was yours.

            50 Years of Vietnamese Communist Crimes

            http://ngothelinh.tripod.com/50_years_communist_crimes.html

             
          • Rob123 posted at 10:09 am on Wed, Apr 10, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6604

            HighTechCowboy posted at 9:23 am on Wed, Apr 10, 2013.

            It's always interesting to watch your big head run in and blow things up. Such a Weapons Engineer, and such an asset for your buddies who build targets. Keep up the good work, you pos.

            Oh, and I actually paid Mamasans for certain acts of verified collateral damage in Vietnam......what a joy, inspecting a 2 or 3 year old corpse to verify gender, since males were paid at 2X the rate of females, and after a blast of full auto, it was hard to tell gender. Great job! You probably would have loved rationalizing it to the teary eyed mamasans, explaining how we were saving them from unspeakable political horror.

            But go ahead, tell us a war story from your days as a San Jose Traffic Cop. We're all ears.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 9:23 am on Wed, Apr 10, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            Rob123: This well placed outrage over barbaric practices of certain nutcase MD's surely can be expanded to include the availability of guns to nutcases who couldn't pass a background check and to our military's collateral damage as it practices War's of Convenience with a ROI that is mind-boggling?

            HTC: I see that Mr. Moral-Equivalency is still alive and well in your neck of the woods! Not surprising, since most PolySci types seem to suffer from that affliction (among others.)

            The 'availability' of guns is not a moral issue, unlike choosing to kill a live-born baby, nor is "collateral damage" when it is the enemy who has chosen to use those victims as a human shield, in hopes that they can use our virtue against us.

            But why do I bother? This is all WAY too nuanced for you to understand.

            Rob123: Keep up the good work, and don't succumb to a particular ideology. As we all know, ideology kills ideas.

            HTC: Exactly what I'd expect from a moral-relativist like you. There is nothing inherently wrong with embracing an ideology; after all, a moral code is an ideology and a good moral code/ideology is what makes the world a safer and happier place.

            We have all embraced ideology. It is unavoidable and a necessary part of human nature. The only question regarding ideology that matters to a libertarian like myself is whether or not those belief systems promote and serve the Founders' concept of "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

            Ideologies which promote and serve personal freedom and liberty are good. Those which don't are bad. Since the right to life is the most important right of all, without which all other rights are meaningless, ideologies which do not value human life are inherently evil and are the cornerstones to political systems which do not value life, such as communism and socialism.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 9:07 am on Wed, Apr 10, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            jennydoe posted at 7:10 am on Wed, Apr 10, 2013

            I fully expected you to publicly join the ranks of the morally decrepit and you certainly didn't disappoint.

            The problem with the morally impaired is that they never can recognize their own vile shortcomings.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 8:32 am on Wed, Apr 10, 2013.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            jennydoe posted at 7:10 am on Wed, Apr 10, 2013.

            JEB, you are flipping demented.

            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~

            Why do you say that.......??? Just because I called you out on your love of abortions...........???


            [thumbdown]

             
          • jennydoe posted at 7:10 am on Wed, Apr 10, 2013.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            HTIC one minute...."Oh the outrage!!! My children are mine, not the communities!!! Fire the torpedos."

            HTIC a couple hours later..."Oh the outrage, evil vile people. We must step in and stop them from their very own personal relationship with their unborn children that need our love."

            JEB, you are flipping demented.

             
          • Pete posted at 5:16 am on Wed, Apr 10, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            NY Gun Confiscation Underway – Citizens Told to Turn in Pistol Owner ID & Firearms

            Manasquan, NJ –(Ammoland.com)- Remember all those who denied that firearms confiscation as a result of New York’s new gun laws was too “insane” to even consider?

            That it was strictly in the realm of paranoid conspiracy theorists and the “it cant happen here crowd”?

            Those were and remain some of the standard replies to anyone who even thought about the possibility, let alone gave voice to it, despite the fact that Gov Cuomo and numerous other officials made public comments about such a plan, as I discussed in my article “Feinstein & Cuomo Admit Planning Australian Style Government Gun Buy Back” .

            Elected Officials, the media, various Gun Control Groups and their zealous forced disarmament supporters, even some firearms owners themselves all insisted it was to crazy to even consider.

            There’s just one huge problem it is happening now in New York State!
            It seems those that tried desperately to warn of such an insidious plot had hit the bullseye with their warnings after all. News came from multiple NY State based firearms enthusiast websites late Friday that confiscations of Pistol Owner ID Cards, as well as firearms and accessories has commenced in NY under the provisions of the horribly flawed, draconian and blatantly unconstitutional NY SAFE Act.

            Those folks having their weapons and FID cards confiscated have been discovered to have been prescribed multiple different types of psychotropic drugs, such as those for Depression or Anxiety. These are known as SSRI ( Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors) class drugs and have the potential to cause serious and adverse side effects, something I wrote about extensively last week in an article that went viral in days and caused multiple Anti Gun and Progressive News Groups to initiate a concentrated denial of service hacker attack against Ammoland Shooting Sports News (see Daily KOS ” Keeping Track Of The RKBA Crowd” http://tiny.cc/ug67uw), in an effort to keep the information from the public.

            From NY http://tiny.cc/nyfirearms

            “John Doe, an upstanding professional with no outstanding criminal convictions and no history of violent action received a letter from the Pistol Permit Department informing him that his license was immediately revoked upon information that he was seeing a therapist for anxiety and had been prescribed an anxiety drug. He was never suicidal, never violent, and has no criminal history. The New York State Department of Health is apparently conducting a search of medical records to determine who is being treated for anxiety drugs and using this as a basis for handgun license revocation.

            Those are the facts. Nothing more, nothing less.
            Now, before anyone trots out the old saw about how this is nothing more then a paranoid, unsubstantiated rumor on a “gun nuts” internet forum. I spoke to the Attorney of Record in this matter on the phone this morning and he confirmed that the above snippet is accurate and these cases are happening!

            James Tresmond Esq confirmed in our conversation that the above mentioned case is occurring in Erie County NY, it is his client that has been effected, and as yet unknown sources have seen fit to take it upon themselves to share confidential medical records with NY State Officials without authorization, a massive HIPPA violation.

            It seems these supposedly confidential records are then compared against a list of known NY pistol license holders and letters are sent out demanding their Pistol Owner ID Cards be surrendered, as well as any firearms and accessories.

            Here is a link to the Attorney of Record on this case, Jim Tresmond, giving a radio interview on the Tom Bauerle Show on WBEN 930AM/107.7 FM:

            http://www.wben.com/topic/play_window.php?audioType=Episode&audioId=6319907

            This is an unprecedented violation of a Citizens 2nd, 4th, and 5th Amendment RIGHTS, brought to fruition by power and control hungry tyrants holding elected office who swore an Oath to uphold and defend the very rights they are now actively stripping from their constituents.

            Moreover, the confiscation efforts underway in NY State have had another, albeit unintended effect. By undertaking this course of action, those in power have inadvertently pulled back the curtain on something they have suppressed from the Citizens for far to long, leaving them with precious little wiggle room to explain away their actions.
            •Either they are acknowledging that there is in fact some sort of little reported link between the prescribing of psychotropic drugs and violent behavior, thus they are somehow, at least in their own minds “justified” in their actions to preempt someone from violence.
            •Or, this is nothing more then a backdoor confiscation effort and massive abuse of governmental power unleashed on innocent Citizens.

            Those are the only two possible explanations.

            If anyone still feels some level of doubt regarding the veracity of this story, Attorney Tresmond welcomes anyone to visit his website tresmondlaw.com, Facebook page ( https://www.facebook.com/james.tresmond.7 ), or send an email to TresmondLaw@gmail.com.

            Mr Tresmond asks that those making inquiries be mindful and respectful of the fact that they have been deluged with inquiries in recent days and therefore a personal reply may be delayed or impossible due to the volume.

            Read more at Ammoland.com: http://ww

             
          • Rob123 posted at 4:38 am on Wed, Apr 10, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6604

            kohana: Having all this brought out in public view should make them ashamed.
            HTC: When you have no conscience, shame is an impossibility.
            This is why shame and embarrassment are such a rare commodity in liberal circles.
            Log In to report. Link

            kohana posted at 1:57 pm on Tue, Apr 9, 2013.
            Posts: 1589
            JBSTONE posted at 11:48 am on Tue, Apr 9, 2013
            This is exactly why I have changed my stance on abortion. Stupid me. I Thought all abortions were in the first trimester except rare medical conditions when mother's life was endangered. I also thought that if the mother's life was endangered, the child would be taken C-section and an attempt would be made to save the child as well as the mother.
            This kind of horror makes me ill. How can these people do things like this? Kill a living, fully formed infant! This is an occasion where I wished I believed in a god who would send these people to hell. But guess they will live their own kind of hell in prison. Having all this brought out in public view should make them ashamed.
            --------------------------------------------------------------
            This well placed outrage over barbaric practices of certain nutcase MD's surely can be expanded to include the availability of guns to nutcases who couldn't pass a background check and to our military's collateral damage as it practices War's of Convenience with a ROI that is mind-boggling? Horror is horror! Keep up the good work, and don't succumb to a particular ideology. As we all know, ideology kills ideas.

             
          • Pete posted at 8:11 pm on Tue, Apr 9, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Meanwhile....at the Whitehouse it's a sequestration party. Time to fire up the teleprompter for karaoke night. What a freak show this guy is.

            http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/04/09/obama_sings_along_to_justin_timberlakes_rendition_of_sitting_on_the_dock_of_the_bay.html

             
          • mooseberryinn posted at 7:38 pm on Tue, Apr 9, 2013.

            mooseberryinn Posts: 2693

            Ignoring things that may reflect poorly on the current regime, or things that the regime supports is the mode of the yellow, main stream media. Same as it is/was in the communist world, or same as it is in dictator world. Don't want people to be stirred-up with "causes". Let them sleep unaware.

             
          • kohana posted at 7:31 pm on Tue, Apr 9, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/04/09/obama-marks-equal-pay-day-as-critics-note-male-white-house-staffers-earn-13-more-than-female-counterparts/

            Obama Marks ‘Equal Pay Day’ as Critics Note Male White House Staffers Earn 13% More Than Female Counterparts

            President Barack Obama is marking April 9 as “National Equal Pay Day.” Critics have been quick to point out that the administration reportedly pays its male staffers a substantial 13 percent more than its female staffers.

            It should also be noted that 70 percent of White House staffers in higher-income salary brackets are men, according to reports.

            “To grow our middle class and spur progress in the years ahead, we need to address longstanding inequity that keeps women from earning a living equal to their efforts,” Obama announced Monday evening.

            “That is why I have made pay equity a top priority — from signing the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act days after I took office to cracking down on equal pay law violations wherever they occur. And to back our belief in equality with the weight of law, I continue to call on the Congress to pass the Paycheck Fairness Act.”

            CNSNews reported last month that 70 percent of White House employees earning the maximum salary of $172,200, were in fact men. The news outlet further extrapolated figures provided by the White House indicating that administration staff are paid $86,260.89 on average, but that women specifically earn an average of $76,162.65.
            In other words, men working for the current administration earn 13.26 percent more than their female counterparts.

            Despite the disparity, Obama still went on to state:
            “Women — who make up nearly half of our Nation’s workforce — face a pay gap that means they earn 23 percent less on average than men do…That disparity is even greater for African-American women and Latinas. On National Equal Pay Day, we recognize this injustice by marking how far into the new year women have to work just to make what men did in the previous one.”

            CNSNews reminded that back in 2008 then-senator Obama paid women on his senate staff roughly 22 percent on average less than his male staffers. The average male member of Obama’s senate staff earned $57,425.00 yearly while women earned $44,953.21.
            In a statement that may come back to haunt him, the president also said that “when working mothers make less than their male counterparts, they have less to spend on basic necessities like child care, groceries, and rent.”

            CNS provides additional statistics:
            In 2012, according to a report on White House staff salaries, there were 466 total paid White House Office employees and two unpaid staffers. Of the paid staffers, 234 were women and 232 were men.

            In November 2010, President Obama, who earns $400,000 annually, froze the salaries of every White House staffer who makes over $100,000, meaning the only way for an employee over that benchmark to receive a raise would be through increased responsibilities or in a different job. The maximum salary has been $172,200 since 2008, when it was increased by 2.5% from $168,000.

            The highest annual compensation for any White House staffers in 2012 was $172,200, and a total of 20 people earned that top salary. Among those 20 employees, 14 were men and 6 were women–making 70 percent of the highest-paid White House staffers men, and 30 percent women.

            “I call upon all Americans to recognize the full value of women’s skills and their significant contributions to the labor force, acknowledge the injustice of wage inequality, and join efforts to achieve equal pay,” Obama added.


             
          • kohana posted at 6:46 pm on Tue, Apr 9, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            http://www.christianpost.com/news/media-watchdogs-accuse-networks-of-ignoring-house-of-horrors-murder-trial-93501/

            Media Watchdogs Accuse Networks of Ignoring 'House of Horrors' Murder Trial

            Gosnell and Wife Killed Latest-Term Babies on Sundays

            Conservative media watchdog groups are criticizing mainstream media networks and cable news channels for ignoring the murder trial of Kermit Gosnell, a late-term abortion provider who is accused of killing seven babies who were born alive and one patient who died from an overdose of Demerol that was administered by the clinic's unlicensed staff.

            Read more at http://www.christianpost.com/news/media-watchdogs-accuse-networks-of-ignoring-house-of-horrors-murder-trial-93501/#lvJsbwp1OU7JESpw.99

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 6:46 pm on Tue, Apr 9, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            kohana: I saw that before, a weaselly, stupid woman. It's one thing to provide contraceptives to prevent pregnancy, an entirely different matter slaughtering babies.

            HTC: This is much more than a "weasely, stupid woman." This is an evil, sick, twisted and horribly broken human being!

            We are wired by our creator/evolution/nature (take your pick) to love our children and to protect them at any cost, even if it costs us our own lives. This is true, even if it's not our very own children that need care or protection.

            Anyone who feels otherwise is broken and unnatural, as well as uncaring and perverse.

            And to call killing a human life "health care" is as sick as it gets.

            These are evil, perverse, extremely selfish (and likely stupid) people!

             
          • kohana posted at 6:32 pm on Tue, Apr 9, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            JBSTONE posted at 5:43 pm on Tue, Apr 9, 2013

            I saw that before, a weaselly, stupid woman. It's one thing to provide contraceptives to prevent pregnancy, an entirely different matter slaughtering babies.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 5:43 pm on Tue, Apr 9, 2013.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            kohana posted at 1:57 pm on Tue, Apr 9, 2013.

            Planned Parenthood endorses post-birth abortion

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qEv1afKaLhA

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 5:37 pm on Tue, Apr 9, 2013.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            HighTechCowboy posted at 3:32 pm on Tue, Apr 9, 2013.


            AMEN..........!!!

            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

            (CNN) -- Steven Maida was leaving the cafe on his college campus Tuesday when he saw people running. Then, he heard a girl scream: "My friend's been stabbed."

            Maida said he saw blood on a stairway and several injured victims at the Lone Star College's CyFair campus northwest of Houston, Texas. One wounded woman had a hole her throat, one had a hole in her cheek and another victim had a stab wound in the back of his head, Maida said.

            "I just took off downstairs running" and searching for the attacker, he said.

            Maida told CNN he was among a group of students that chased the suspect, tackled him and pinned him down until authorities arrived. Investigators could not be immediately reached to confirm his account.
            Lone Star student: Everyone was bleeding

            "I couldn't run the other way like everyone else was," he said.

            Harris County Sheriff Adrian Garcia told reporters that 14 people were injured in the attack and two of them were in critical condition.

            The suspect, an approximately 21-year-old male enrolled at the school, is in custody while authorities continue their investigation, Garcia said.

            Authorities had not released the suspect's name Tuesday evening and the sheriff's office said he had not yet been charged.

            It was unclear what his motive was, or what weapon he used, Garcia said.

            "We do not know exactly what type of weapon was used other than to say that it is at this point an unknown instrument," he said. "We don't know whether (it was) a knife or some other type of instrument."

            Another student, Maya Khalil, was shocked when she saw victims bleeding on the ground.

            Moments before, the 19-year-old had been in class in the health sciences building.

            "It was really scary," she told CNN.

            Khalil snapped photos of the chaos as it unfolded, posting pictures on Twitter that showed a bandaged student on a stretcher and police and paramedics swarming the scene.

            Garcia said a call came in to 911 Tuesday morning describing a "male on the loose stabbing people" at the Lone Star College's CyFair campus.

            Most of the victims had lacerations in their head and neck areas, said Robert Rasa, a spokesman for the CyFair Volunteer Fire Department.

            "We were literally going from building to building, room to room, looking for patients, setting up triage," he said.

            The school was on lockdown Tuesday afternoon while authorities combed the campus to ensure no other injured people or attackers were there, Harris County sheriff's spokesman Alan Bernstein said.

            While authorities investigated, teachers and students huddled together in locked rooms, said Marianna Sviland, a teacher at the college who was in a faculty workroom at the time of the stabbing.

            "Outside the window, I saw cops running around, I saw students running and I realized something was going on," she said. "It was scary."

            By 2 p.m. (3 p.m. ET), students and staff were allowed to leave campus, Sviland said.

            Details about the victim's injuries were unclear Tuesday afternoon.

            Bernstein said it wasn't clear whether all of the injured people were stabbed.

            "It's possible other people were running away" and became injured that way, he said.

            Four injured victims "were in a dire enough situation that they were taken out on helicopters," Bernstein said.

            "I do believe the confrontation was limited to a few (classrooms) or just one classroom -- not anybody roaming around and getting into a large number of areas," Bernstein said.

            The school posted a warning on its website: "Stay away from the area. Seek shelter in a secure location until the incident is resolved."

            Tuesday's incident comes more than two months after three people were wounded in a shooting at a different Lone Star College campus -- the North Harris campus in Houston.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 5:26 pm on Tue, Apr 9, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            Even in death, conservatives are slammed while liberals are praised by the MSM. Nutjob Hugo Chavez was lionized while Thatcher was bashed:

            http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/04/09/associated-press-bias-obvious-even-in-thatcher-chavez-obits/

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 5:05 pm on Tue, Apr 9, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            A survey of over 15,000 men and women in law enforcement finds little support for Obama's and his party's gun control measures:

            http://www.policeone.com/news/6188462-PoliceOnes-2013-Gun-Policy-Law-Enforcement-Survey-Results-Executive-Summary/

            Among the findings:

            • Asked if a federal ban on magazines holding more than 10 rounds would reduce violent crime, only 2.7% said yes, to 95.7% no.

            • Only 7.6% thought a ban on so-called assault weapons would reduce violent crime; 71% thought it wouldn't help, and 20.5% thought it would aggravate the problem.

            • On the more general question of what effect the White House's suite of gun restrictions would have on the safety of police officers, only 11.6% said it would help; 60.6% thought it would have no effect, and 24.6% thought it would make cops less safe.

            • Asked what the likely outcome would have been at Aurora and Newtown had a legally armed civilian been on the scene, 80% said it would have meant fewer casualties and 6.2% said it would have prevented casualties altogether. Only 5.5% said it would have led to greater loss of life.

            • Asked which measure would help most in preventing large-scale public shootings, a plurality (28.8%) said more-permissive concealed-carry policies for civilians. The second and third choices were also not on the Obama agenda: more-aggressive institutionalization of the mentally ill (19.6%) and more armed guards (15.8%). Only then do we get improved background screening for gun purchasers, (14%), followed by longer prison terms for gun-related violent crimes (7.9%). Bringing up the rear were tighter limits on weapons sales (1.5%) and legislative restrictions on "assault weapons" and magazines (0.9%).

             
          • kohana posted at 4:54 pm on Tue, Apr 9, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            Another cut, so glad I got to see them perform at least once in my lifetime.

            http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2013/04/09/Blue-Angels-Air-Shows-Canceled-for-2013

             
          • kohana posted at 4:42 pm on Tue, Apr 9, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            The Obama's are having a fling tonight at Our White House with celebs, on taxpayer's money, you remember that house right? The one we pay for but can't visit?

            http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/04/09/white-house-closed-for-tours-open-for-celebrity-concert

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 3:59 pm on Tue, Apr 9, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            Yet another idiot liberal idea: Kids belong to the state rather than to a family with parents:

            http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2013/04/09/critics-slam-msnbc-hosts-claim-that-kids-belong-to-community-not-parents/

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 3:45 pm on Tue, Apr 9, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            Isn't it interesting that the CBO recently identified over $240B in waste and duplication in federal spending; yet, sequestration-mandated cuts of only $80B are only impacting essential services such as VA benefits, TSA, FAA control towers (most closures being in 'red' counties), vaccinations for poor children, etc.?

            Meanwhile, "Let 'em eat cake" Michelle and daughters continue to travel and live like royalty, Biden has already had 3 vacations this year and the federal government is still offering 'internships' paying over $80K/yr. to people with as little as one year of college education.

            Where's Obama's "shared sacrifice" in all of this? And why are the parasites in the public welfare system not impacted while veterans are seeing long lines for health services and seeing their PROMISED educational assistance benefits slashed?

            If this is utopia, Obama can shove it up his Marxist azz!

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 3:32 pm on Tue, Apr 9, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            Now that 14 people have been injured, some critically, by a lone 'knifeman' on a Texas college campus, how long before we hear talk about banning 'assault' knives with a high capacity for killing? Maybe knives will require background checks (Xacto knives also, as was used in this instance?) Maybe knives will be limited to 5 thrusts or stabbing motions before the bad guy will be forced to reload with a new knife? Perhaps knives with a military look-and-feel will be permanently banned?

            If we embrace the 'logic' of idiot liberals, surely these things must be discussed.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 3:20 pm on Tue, Apr 9, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            kohana: Having all this brought out in public view should make them ashamed.

            HTC: When you have no conscience, shame is an impossibility.

            This is why shame and embarrassment are such a rare commodity in liberal circles.

             
          • kohana posted at 1:57 pm on Tue, Apr 9, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            JBSTONE posted at 11:48 am on Tue, Apr 9, 2013

            This is exactly why I have changed my stance on abortion. Stupid me. I Thought all abortions were in the first trimester except rare medical conditions when mother's life was endangered. I also thought that if the mother's life was endangered, the child would be taken C-section and an attempt would be made to save the child as well as the mother.

            This kind of horror makes me ill. How can these people do things like this? Kill a living, fully formed infant! This is an occasion where I wished I believed in a god who would send these people to hell. But guess they will live their own kind of hell in prison. Having all this brought out in public view should make them ashamed.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 11:48 am on Tue, Apr 9, 2013.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            Jenny et al, here's one for all you abortion fans out there..........

            'Fetuses and blood all over the place': Medic's graphic account of 'be-heading live babies' at abortion 'House of Horrors' in Philadelphia

            By Katie Davies
            UPDATED: 11:53 EST, 6 April 2013

            http://tinyurl.com/clqvzhq

            A medical school graduate has given a graphic account of working at a Philadelphia abortion clinic and how he routinely saw babies born alive and then killed with scissors

            Stephen Massof, 50, of Pittsburgh, was giving evidence at the trial of his former boss Kermit Gosnell on Thursday.

            Gosnell, 72, is accused of killing seven live babies at the Philadelphia Women’s Medical Society clinic and a woman who was administered too much anesthesia.

            If found guilty he could be given the death penalty.

            Massof, who is awaiting sentencing after pleading guilty to the murder of two newborns at the clinic, revealed Thursday that he witnessed an abortion at 26 weeks - two weeks beyond the 24-week limit in the state.

            He also claimed he saw about 100 babies born alive and then 'snipped' with surgical scissors in the back of the neck, to ensure their 'demise'.

            He also spoke of the gruesome scenes at the clinic which was allegedly found dirty and rundown with rusting surgical instruments.

            'It would rain fetuses. Fetuses and blood all over the place. It is literally a beheading. It is separating the brain from the body,' he told NBC.

            He also alleges the clinic's ultrasound machine was manipulated to make fetuses appear smaller and therefore younger.

            The graduate explained how his medical degree came from Grenada in the West Indies and he hadn't completed medical residency when he joined Gosnell in 2003.

            After two months he was examining women alone.

            But he said he believed the intentions of his boss were honest and that the doctor believed he was helping the women, often extremely poor, who came to him

            'I believe that Dr. Gosnell was honestly trying to help women and protect them from abuse and neglect,' Massof said.

            The trial is in its third week and is expected to last another month.

            Eight clinic employees have pleaded guilty to various charges, while a ninth is on trial with Gosnell.

            Massof spent five years at the clinic before leaving in 2008 over a dispute with other staffers.

            'I felt like a firemen in hell. I couldn't put out all the fires,' he testified.

            He was charged with murder three years later, after a 2010 FBI probe of Gosnell's distribution of painkillers spawned a raid at the clinic, and the more serious abortion case.

            Prosecutors allege Gosnell took more than $1 million a year at the clinic where women were charged up to $3,000 for an abortion.

            Karnamaya Mongar, a 41-year-old refugee who traveled to the clinic from Virginia, died after an overdose of drugs allegedly given to her during a 2009 abortion.

            A Grand Jury report said the clinic was crawling with cats and reeking of animal urine and feces.

            Furniture and blankets were stained with blood and instruments were not properly sterilized.

            Disposable medical supplies were also reused while vital medical equipment such as the defibrillator and EKG machine were 'generally broken'.

            Disturbingly, the report alleged that fetal remains were stuffed into: 'cabinets, in the basement, in a freezer, in jars and bags and plastic jugs'.

            Tiny baby feet, it is claimed, were discovered in specimen jars, lined up in a macabre collection.

            Gosnell's lawyer denies the murder charge and disputes that any babies were born alive. He also challenges the gestational age of the aborted fetuses, calling them inexact estimates.

            The trial continues Monday.

            ~~~~~~~~~~~~

            I apologize to anyone I offended by saying employers shouldn't be forced to pay for abortions...........it makes PERFECT sense after all............!!!

             
          • Rob123 posted at 9:22 am on Tue, Apr 9, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6604

            HTC: ".....since I own the company."

            Ah-Ha! I knew you were as dumb as me. Now quit whining, and get back to work.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 8:17 am on Tue, Apr 9, 2013.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            HighTechCowboy posted at 7:54 am on Tue, Apr 9, 2013.

            if you insist on standing in the middle of the road, you'll get hit by traffic on both sides of the road....

            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

            Yo Mama didn't raise no dumb clucks.........[wink]

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:13 am on Tue, Apr 9, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            Oh, those whacky California liberals. Now they want health insurance, already priced beyond many people's reach, to cover 'infertility' for gay couples:

            http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/344861/ca-legislation-would-require-insurance-gay-infertility-wesley-j-smith

            At the rate they're redefining language and science in California, their school system will have to special order dictionaries and science textbooks.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 7:54 am on Tue, Apr 9, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            Rob123: You're sure going to be surprised when I show up at the next board meeting with 51% of the Proxy Votes and you don't get your own way anymore.

            HTC: More likely amused, since I own the company.

            Rob123: ...your penchant for standing out in Right field throwing bricks.

            HTC: I didn't realize that we libertarians had finally been assigned a position. On some issues, folks are convinced we're liberals; on others, conservatives. Rarely, we're accused of being "moderates", but only by people who understand next to nothing about libertarianism. We abhor moderates for it is they, more than anyone, who've enabled our gradual slide into tyranny over the individual and state. And we're smart enough to know that, if you insist on standing in the middle of the road, you'll get hit by traffic on both sides of the road.


             
          • Rob123 posted at 3:58 am on Tue, Apr 9, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6604

            Rob123: ...my previous point was a direct insult at you...
            HTC: You couldn't insult me if your life depended on it. I'd have to care what you think.
            ----------------------
            Gosh boss, you're just brutal! You're sure going to be surprised when I show up at the next board meeting with 51% of the Proxy Votes and you don't get your own way anymore. Probably just drive you nuts?

            https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10200930999058624&set=a.1569357355255.72695.1275094614&type=1&theater

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 9:16 pm on Mon, Apr 8, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            Rob123: ...my previous point was a direct insult at you...

            HTC: You couldn't insult me if your life depended on it. I'd have to care what you think.

            Rob123: I don't have a clue....

            HTC: Admitting it is the first step towards recovery.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 8:18 pm on Mon, Apr 8, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6604

            HighTechCowboy posted at 7:03 pm on Mon, Apr 8, 2013.
            Posts: 7445
            JBSTONE: I think the bigger issue here is WHY hasn't King Obama not ordered the flags at half-staff...........???
            HTC: Excellent point; but, I'm sure Rob123 will come up with some story to explain it away......
            --------------------------
            No, No, No......my previous point was a direct insult at you, and your penchant for standing out in Right field throwing bricks. Nothing more, nothing less. I don't have a clue why President Obama doesn't order such a tribute. Politics? Is Canada flying their flag at 1/2 mast?

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 7:07 pm on Mon, Apr 8, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            Obama responded more quickly to news of Roger Ebert's death than he did to Thatcher's:

            Monday, April 08, 2013

            (CNSNews.com) - Hours after the BBC reported the death of conservative British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher on Monday, President Barack Obama still had not issued a statement on her passing.

            But last week, within half an hour of film critic Roger Ebert's death, the White House tweeted a statement from the president.

            As of 10:00 a.m. EDT on Monday, there was still silence from the White House on Thatcher's death, which the BBC tweeted at 4:49 a.m.

            http://cnsnews.com/news/article/obama-responded-faster-eberts-death-he-did-thatchers

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 7:03 pm on Mon, Apr 8, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            JBSTONE: I think the bigger issue here is WHY hasn't King Obama not ordered the flags at half-staff...........???

            HTC: Excellent point; but, I'm sure Rob123 will come up with some story to explain it away, possibly involving the Pope, exorcism and sacred relics. Don't try to make sense of it as his posts rarely do.

             
          • bill39 posted at 6:28 pm on Mon, Apr 8, 2013.

            bill39 Posts: 1052

            HighTechCowboy posted at 10:00 am on Sun, Apr 7, 2013.

            Bravo

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 5:31 pm on Mon, Apr 8, 2013.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            HighTechCowboy posted at 4:16 pm on Mon, Apr 8, 2013.

            Rob123: When that administration came to an end so did the loan....

            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

            I think the bigger issue here is WHY hasn't King Obama not ordered the flags at half-staff...........???

            What a pig.

            [thumbdown]

             
          • Rob123 posted at 5:14 pm on Mon, Apr 8, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6604

            http://www.upworthy.com/you-call-it-being-friendly-some-women-call-it-the-worst-part-of-their-day?c=ufb1

             
          • Rob123 posted at 4:48 pm on Mon, Apr 8, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6604

            HighTechCowboy posted at 4:16 pm on Mon, Apr 8, 2013.

            I just can't answer such a deep and profound thought process over such a precious relic......I wonder if the new Jesuit Pope, with his moderated Liberation Theology leanings, still has some folks doing exorcisms down in the basement? You might give them a call?

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 4:16 pm on Mon, Apr 8, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            Rob123: When that administration came to an end so did the loan....

            HTC: That's the British Embassies SECOND statement on the matter. In the first, they acknowledged that the bust had been returned and admitted some surprise because they hadn't asked for its return as it had been loaned INDEFINITELY.

            If their second story is true rather than their first account, then why did the White House initially lie and deny its return, even pointing to the second bust as 'proof' that it had not been sent back?

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 4:09 pm on Mon, Apr 8, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            States trust gold, not Bernanke:

            http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-08/trust-in-gold-not-bernanke-as-u-s-states-promote-bullion.html

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 3:34 pm on Mon, Apr 8, 2013.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            Rob123 posted at 2:56 pm on Mon, Apr 8, 2013.


            "Why did some of Europe's most important thinkers attach themselves to the Nazi cause?"

            ~~~~~~~~~~~~

            Uh..............they were relatives of Bronco & SOB..........???


            [wink]

             
          • Rob123 posted at 2:56 pm on Mon, Apr 8, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6604

            http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324789504578381450191135328.html?KEYWORDS=When+Ideology+Declared+War+on+Ideas

            When Ideology Declared War on Ideas

            "Why did some of Europe's most important thinkers attach themselves to the Nazi cause?"

             
          • Rob123 posted at 2:49 pm on Mon, Apr 8, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6604

            HighTechCowboy posted at 2:01 pm on Mon, Apr 8, 2013.

            http://www.mediaite.com/online/british-embassy-confirms-krauthammer-right-white-house-wrong-churchill-bust-returned-in-2009/

            "On Friday, The British Embassy confirmed to Mediate that they did receive the bust of Churchill which was loaned to the Bush White House in 2009. The bust on display in the White House’s residency is a copy:

            The bust of Sir Winston Churchill, by Sir Jacob Epstein, was lent to the George W Bush administration from the UK’s Government Art Collection, for the duration of the Presidency. When that administration came to an end so did the loan; the bust now resides in the British Ambassador’s Residence in Washington DC. The White House collection has its own Epstein bust of Churchill, which President Obama showed to Prime Minister Cameron when he visited the White House in March.
            The Embassy concluded by noting that the U.K. and the U.S. share a close and special relationship and the “Churchill Bust story is a silly diversion...."
            ----------------------------------------------
            Pete posted at 2:28 pm on Mon, Apr 8, 2013.
            "Quit giving them ideas....."
            [wink][wink] I'm not....

             
          • Pete posted at 2:40 pm on Mon, Apr 8, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Yep...Margaret Thatcher was a GREAT leader and a personal hero. RIP Iron Lady - you fought the good fight.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 2:38 pm on Mon, Apr 8, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            Pete posted at 2:28 pm on Mon, Apr 8, 2013.

            It's laughable how much the left LOVES big government while professing to be all about protecting our civil rights, including privacy rights. The irony of their mutual embrace is completely lost on them; yet, they continue to hold themselves up as the 'intelligentsia.'

            What a joke they are!

             
          • Pete posted at 2:28 pm on Mon, Apr 8, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Rob123 posted at 5:44 am on Mon, Apr 8, 2013

            Quit giving them ideas.....

            "IRS collecting tax payer information from Facebook and Twitter"

            WASHINGTON -
            You have until April 15th to file a return - and the IRS will be collecting a lot more than just taxes this year.

            According to several reports, the agency will also be collecting personal information from sites like Facebook and Twitter.

            It says the effort is to catch people trying to beat the system, but some say it goes too far.

            Attorney Kristen Mathews warns to be careful with what you say on social media platforms.

            She has concerns the government is pushing the limits of what has historically been considered private.

            "There are laws that regulate the government's ability to get a hold of things like credit card transaction history. But those laws have become more permissive in the last several years, particularly after 9-11, and so some might say those laws are no longer in line with the average expectation of privacy," says Mathews.

            The government has said it would only check a Facebook page or twitter account if there is already red flag in a tax form.

            Read more: http://www.myfoxdc.com/story/21905788/irs-collecting-tax-payer-information-from-facebook-and-twitter#ixzz2PuDMRBsC

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 2:01 pm on Mon, Apr 8, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            It is impossible, as the world pays tribute to the Iron Lady, and while reflecting upon the close relationship between the U.S. and England which she and Reagan helped to foster, to not eventually remember that one of the first acts of the disgraceful POS we now have in the Oval Office was his returning the loaned bust of Winston Churchill and then lying about it.

            Obama isn't fit to shine Thatcher's shoes.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 1:17 pm on Mon, Apr 8, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            Bronco: You're full of crap. A few months ago you stated that the gov't only recognizes mainstream religions established during the Founders' days.

            HTC: Au contraire, mon petit bonhomme. I never said any such thing.

            What I have said is that any religious practice (e.g., genital mutilation) which harms someone else or infringes upon others' rights (e.g. forcing someone to marry someone chosen by their church), would be religious practices NOT protected by the First Amendment.

            This is not the first time you have erroneously associated me with someone else's comments; it appears that your memory is a full of holes as are your thought processes.

             
          • Bronco posted at 11:23 am on Mon, Apr 8, 2013.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            HTC: As I've said many times before, I'm an agnostic but I'll defend to the death the right of every American to be able to practice their religion and the dictates of their conscience.
            ---------------------------
            You're full of crap. A few months ago you stated that the gov't only recognizes mainstream religions established during the Founders' days. That statement by you followed my questions about religious practices/beliefs that are not recognized as valid enough to fall under the First Amendment. Some of those practices/beliefs are the use of cannibis during ceremonies, refusing to support an apparatus that commits violence and killings (US military) either by paying taxes for its support or being inducted into service of that apparatus, prohibiting infidels to act in an offensive manner toward Allah either by dress or action, etc.

            You seem to support only "the right of every American to be able to practice their religion and the dictates of their conscience" when it coincides with your world view. My personal religious beliefs say I should be intolerant of anyone who endlessly levels personal insults and derogatory statements at me simply because of who I voted for in an election. Yes, I have a right to cast my ballot in any direction I so please, whether because I strongly believe in one issue over others, or because I do not trust a candidate, or because I feel my vote would be wasted should I cast it for someone who will lose by a landslide, you fkng nazi.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 9:43 am on Mon, Apr 8, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            who new: “She (Lady Thatcher) was for me, and no doubt many women of the 20th century, a towering figure who attained real power by virtue of her own hard work and excellence. She did not derive her power from men or from victimology. In contrast to the 20th century feminists, she was painfully aware of sexism but did not obsess about it. She simply got the job done. No excuses, no whining and no personal drama.”

            HTC: Thatcher would never have called herself a 'feminist" and often stated that she owed nothing to "women's lib."

            She once told her adviser Paul Johnson, "I hate feminism. It is poison."

            And now, upon her passing, the liberal blogosphere is full of liberal crap claiming that Thatcher owed everything to feminism; that she actually harmed rather than helped women; and that she actually was a feminist, even if she was the worst feminist imaginable.

            The liberal mind can be so amusing at times.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 9:00 am on Mon, Apr 8, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            A few of my favorite Margaret Thatcher quotes:

            "The battle for women's rights has been largely won."

            "Europe was created by history. America was created by philosophy."

            "The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."

            "There can be no liberty unless there is economic liberty."

            "To cure the British disease with socialism was like trying to cure leukemia with leeches."

            "Being powerful is like being a lady. If you have to tell people you are, you aren't."

            "To me, consensus seems to be the process of abandoning all beliefs, principles, values and policies. So it is something in which no one believes and to which no one objects."

            "There is no such thing as society: there are individual men and women, and there are families."

            "Of course it's the same old story. Truth usually is the same old story."

            "No one would remember the Good Samaritan if he'd only had good intentions; he had money as well."

            Mitt Romney might appreciate this one:
            "We were told our campaign wasn't sufficiently slick. We regard that as a compliment."

             
          • who new posted at 8:43 am on Mon, Apr 8, 2013.

            who new Posts: 367

            jennydoe: “RIP Margaret.”

            A wonderful tribute from Jennifer Rubin-

            http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2013/04/08/a-conservative-heronine-passes-away-margaret-thatcher-r-i-p/

            Appropriate to this week’s column-

            “She (Lady Thatcher) was for me, and no doubt many women of the 20th century, a towering figure who attained real power by virtue of her own hard work and excellence. She did not derive her power from men or from victimology. In contrast to the 20th century feminists, she was painfully aware of sexism but did not obsess about it. She simply got the job done. No excuses, no whining and no personal drama.”

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:39 am on Mon, Apr 8, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            jennydoe: RIP Margaret.

            HTC: Thatcher was a very impressive woman who did much good for not only her country but the world. Boy, could the UK use another Thatcher now.

            Heck, so could the U.S.!

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:34 am on Mon, Apr 8, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            Rob123: It seems it would be less expensive if the ATF just paid google a buck or two for each search? Why duplicate the data?

            HTC: There would be quite a bit of data in that BATFE database that, HOPEFULLY, isn't to be found on Google.

            Rob123: Just the cost of keeping all that data stored in football field sized warehouses, and the cost of the electricity to run and cool the servers, is a lot.

            HTC: Services like Google, Yahoo and FaceBook keep far more data on hand than would be required by the BATFE's system and they have to be able to support millions of simultaneous data retrievals. The BATFE system would be a far smaller database and only need to support a few hundred lookups per second at most.

            Those requirements can easily be met with a small bank of PC-based servers with no substantial cooling requirements, and all of which would comfortably fit into a 10' x 10' room.

            Ain't technology both wonderful and scary at the same time?

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:25 am on Mon, Apr 8, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            Pete: ATF Seeks 'Massive' Database of Personal Info: 'Assets, Relatives, Associates and More'

            HTC: The GOOD news is that the federal government has a LONG history of being completely incompetent at such massive computing projects. This is one area where I've always been pleased to witness the waste of taxpayer funds and the folly of incompetence in motion.

            That said, this project isn't as sinister as it sounds. Federal law prevents the Social Security Administration and the IRS from sharing data with the ATF; hence, it's very difficult for them to keep track of licensees (especially firearms dealers) and the disposition of their inventories when they go out of business or retire.

            They also have to match firearms' serial numbers to the last known purchaser for law enforcement and that 'database' is entirely paper in thousands of boxes in a large warehouse. That is a completely manual process that can easily take a few days per search; however, in many crimes, if you don't have a good lead within the first 48 hours, your odds of solving the crime and catching the bad guy begin to plummet.

            The efficiency objectives to be served by this new system are innocuous enough; however, successful completion of this project would mean that the federal government finally has a massive database of a good portion of firearms and their owners. That should be a fearsome prospect for any freedom-loving American. Imagine if King George had such a resource 230+ years ago.

            To protect the citizenry, such a system should be approved and funded by Congress via legislation that expressly mandates the requisite protections to sharply reduce its potential for abuse, such as requiring a warrant which would lead to the court, upon approving the retrieval, to generate a good-once electronic key that would permit that access only and just that time.

            To ensure that there was no "back door" built into the system, the legislation should expressly ban such prohibited access and mandate severe criminal penalties for any government employee or outside contractor who assisted in its implementation. Before the system could be placed in service, the law should also specify that it be made available for outside review by a group of private sector experts who would be permitted to study the entire codebase and the system in operation with a test database to ensure that the implementation met the security and privacy requirements in the law.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 7:58 am on Mon, Apr 8, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            Bronco: No more unequal pay going on anymore.

            HTC: No one said that; only that there's no proof that it's due to gender-based discrimination and LOTS of proof that it's due to other things, including choices the women make themselves. Men and women differ SUBSTANTIALLY in how they approach work versus other life issues/desires, and that turns out to have a lot to do with the small remaining "pay gap."

            But as an acknowledged progressive, you need 'victims', so the facts be damned! Maybe you feel a need to rationalize your vote for our Marxist president because you committed the unpardonable sin of being a single issue voter, only to learn that your issue - women's rights - was a fraud since they're not being victimized after all.

            Bronco: And that darn Justice Roland is allowing women to purchase birth control.

            HTC: This issue isn't about women being able to buy birth control. No one's opposed to that. It's whether other people should be forced to pay for it for them, especially people whose religious conscience is violated by that act of subsidization.

            What's being unconstitutionally restrained in this instance isn't birth control but rather the free exercise of religion, which, unlike birth control is actually GUARANTEED under the Constitution.

            As I've said many times before, I'm an agnostic but I'll defend to the death the right of every American to be able to practice their religion and the dictates of their conscience.

            But, as a self-acknowledged progressive, you just can't seem to get these simple concepts while pretending that you're all for personal freedom which you also can't define.

            Doesn't that perpetual fog you live in ever bother you?


            It's not wonder you cant' understand more complicated issues such as economics and monetary policy.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 6:34 am on Mon, Apr 8, 2013.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            RIP Margaret.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 6:30 am on Mon, Apr 8, 2013.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            The thought of Frank taking his children downtown to spit in other's faces gives me the heebie-jeebies.

            Thanks to Louisa and kohana for their contributions. I can relate, all too well. Unfairness at the work place is very common. But hey, let's just keep women's pay low, it helps them justify accepting services from the government. Don't forget to throw in the sexual innuendos and your phallic perversions, we wouldn't be able to get through our day without them. Not to worry, just like the muslims I will cover my face, in tons of eye appealling make-up. I will let you take credit for my work, and of course I'll pick you up a sandwich. But when you write me up for "deflamation" please be sure I will get corporate involved and you both will end up looking like fools.
            For Frank to even suggest that a janitors pay equal that of a CEO is ludicrous at best these days. In fact a CEO's pay these days is quite ludicrous

            SorrySOB posted at 1:54 pm on Sun, Apr 7, 2013[thumbup]

             
          • Rob123 posted at 5:44 am on Mon, Apr 8, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6604

            Pete posted at 3:52 am on Mon, Apr 8, 2013.

            It seems it would be less expensive if the ATF just paid google a buck or two for each search? Why duplicate the data? Just the cost of keeping all that data stored in football field sized warehouses, and the cost of the electricity to run and cool the servers, is a lot.

             
          • Pete posted at 3:52 am on Mon, Apr 8, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            ATF Seeks 'Massive' Database of Personal Info: 'Assets, Relatives, Associates and More'
            April 6, 2013

            By Gregory Gwyn-Williams, Jr.
            Subscribe to Gregory Gwyn-Williams, Jr. RSS

            A recent solicitation from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) reveals that the agency is seeking a "massive" online database capable of pulling up individuals' personal information, connections and associates.

            On March 28, ATF posted the notice on FedBizOpps.gov, entitled "Investigative System." The solicitation was updated on April 5 with a few minor changes.

            The document says that the system will be utilized by staff "to provide rapid searches on various entities for example; names, telephone numbers, utility data and reverse phone look-ups, as a means to assist with investigations, and background research on people, assets and businesses."

            The system is described as a "massive online data repository system that contains a wide variety of data sources both historically and current that can be utilized in support of investigations and backgrounds."

            The overview of the solicitation states:

            Staff will utilize "a number of internal databases as well as external sources to provide timely and relevant information and intelligence products to law enforcement agencies at the federal, state and local levels."

            The system "provides a means to rapidly check records across the country" and is "necessary in assisting investigators, agents and analyst to find people, their assets, relatives, associates and more."

            The ATF says they will use this system to provide information to Intelligence Analysts, Special Agents, Inspectors, Financial Investigators and Law Enforcement.

            The investigative system will allow ATF to "obtain exact matches from partial source data searches such as, incomplete social security numbers, address, VIN numbers, etc."

            The system will also have the ability to "link structured and unstructured data to find connection points between two or more individuals."

             
          • Bronco posted at 12:16 am on Mon, Apr 8, 2013.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            HTC: The first is that the study's pay gap was actually 6.6%, not 7%.
            --------------------
            So basically it was of four people out of a thousand. Thank you. I'm glad the problem has gone away. No more unequal pay going on anymore.

            HTC: The term "sheconomy" refers to this policy bias towards women which also includes awarding women alimony at far higher rates and levels than is seen benefitting men under the same income disparities. The vast majority of Social Security taxes are paid by men but collected by women. In public employment, women are hired into six-figure jobs at rates significantly higher than men. Men pay the majority of health-insurance premiums and Medicare taxes; yet women account for two-thirds of health care expenses.
            -------------------------
            Ah...women are need for reproduction of men. Men need to control that. And that darn Justice Roland is allowing women to purchase birth control. That has to stop. We should give more rights to the unborn, he//, even the unconceived, than we do those succubi. But we also need to placate them, after all, taking what we want is only legitimate rape. But now that they can vote we can't get away with much. Gol'darn liberals!

             
          • mooseberryinn posted at 11:36 pm on Sun, Apr 7, 2013.

            mooseberryinn Posts: 2693

            JB/HTC/Pete, Kohana - nicely done.
            DNA ? = human. bronco DNA? Who knows? Who cares?

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 8:05 pm on Sun, Apr 7, 2013.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            Bronco posted at 6:50 pm on Sun, Apr 7, 2013.
            J.B.: You seem to share the same DNA with mooseberryinn.

            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

            Perhaps, but it's a damn sight better than having to share air with the likes of you........!!!

             
          • Bronco posted at 6:50 pm on Sun, Apr 7, 2013.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            JB: You're the one with the problem.
            There is simply no substance to your frequent unprovoked rants.
            -----------
            You must be a complete idiot, not just half-assed...do you realize you just described your own self? Lately, all you do is show up, cut people down, throw out an insult, then run off and hide till someone you don't like because of their views, reposts...then you come out and do it again. At least the Great and Powerful Wizard of Columbia Falls contributes a decent counterpoint along with his arrows and barbs. You seem to share the same DNA with mooseberryinn.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 6:23 pm on Sun, Apr 7, 2013.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            SorrySOB posted at 1:54 pm on Sun, Apr 7, 2013.

            " if being a "malcontent" means offering a different point of view and not caring about what the other side thinks, then I fit right in here so what's the problem?"

            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

            You're the one with the problem.

            There is simply no substance to your frequent unprovoked rants.


            [thumbdown]

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 4:09 pm on Sun, Apr 7, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            SorrySOB: When don't you? With you two, it gets confusing as to which one in on who's knee.

            HTC: As usual, it's the facts which confuse you the most. Your profound ignorance is what has you on the wrong side of one issue after another.

            But that same ignorance of yours enables the rest of us to predict with 100% accuracy which side of an issue you'll be found defending.

            We never have to wait for you to post to figure that out, so save yourself the effort and fade away.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 4:02 pm on Sun, Apr 7, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            Bronco: After controlling for these various measurable causes of the pay gap, they showed that on average, two college graduates identical in every way but gender – major, career, hours worked, etc. – would still have a 7% pay gap on average.

            HTC: There are two things in that statement which are inaccurate.

            The first is that the study's pay gap was actually 6.6%, not 7%. Rounding up to amplify a perceived injustice displays a certain amount of intellectual dishonesty.

            Secondly, the study did NOT prove that the graduates were identical in every way but gender. That is an assumption made by you and the AAUW and it, too, is inaccurate.

            Research done by Dr. Farrell and others has identified many of the other factors which the AAUW study and some others have missed. This more concise research suggests that, while gender-based discrimination, like all other forms, will always be with us to some degree, it is a minor factor in pay calculations made today.

            In fact, new and on-going economics research is now identifying what many are calling the "mancession" and the "sheconomy."

            In this continuing Great Recession, unemployment among males is substantially higher than among women. This is partially due to the fact that many items in Obama's 'stimulus' and other ongoing federal and state spending are encouraging the hiring and retention of women over men. Talk about being discriminated against!

            The term "sheconomy" refers to this policy bias towards women which also includes awarding women alimony at far higher rates and levels than is seen benefitting men under the same income disparities. The vast majority of Social Security taxes are paid by men but collected by women. In public employment, women are hired into six-figure jobs at rates significantly higher than men. Men pay the majority of health-insurance premiums and Medicare taxes; yet women account for two-thirds of health care expenses.

            The case can easily be made that there is far more gender-based discrimination against men than there is against women. It's time to expose the real truth.

            http://www.singularity2050.com/2010/01/the-misandry-bubble.html

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 3:39 pm on Sun, Apr 7, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            kohana: I respectfully disagree with you. For every man that didn't hobnob on the golf course and lost a promotion, thousands of women didn't even get the same pay of the golf course caddy. And there were no women even being invited to play golf. Matter of fact, most women weren't even allowed to join a golf club.

            HTC: Your anger is quite apparent and also quite understandable. I'm certainly not suggesting that you and lousia haven't experienced discrimination in the workplace. I'm merely stating that things have already changed quite a bit and that the big picture, studied objectively, shows quite a different picture.

            In his book "Why Men Earn More: The Startling Truth Behind the Pay Gap -- and What Women Can Do About It"*, Dr. Warren Farrell shows, through his extensive research and analysis of industry and government data, that the myth of equal-work-but-unequal-pay for women is indeed mostly a myth; in fact, he found that quite frequently, women were paid more relative to the actual number of hours worked.

            Before anyone jumps to the conclusion that Dr. Farrell is a right-wing misogynist, here's a little bit about him: He ran for the Democratic nomination for California governor. He's the only man ever elected three times to the board of the National Organization for Women in New York City. And he's no intellectual lightweight; the Financial Times named him one of the world's top 100 thought leaders.

            Dr. Farrell found that there are a number of career choices and approaches to their work which differentiate men's and women's pay and that there were 25 such primary differentiators that, if women practiced just a few of them, often elevated their pay above that of their male counterparts.

            If women are being widely exploited by being paid substantially less than their male counterparts, all else being truly equal, then why don't women go out and start their own businesses and hire only women and drive their male-run competitors into the ground? After all, there is much in the way of assistance including financial assistance which the government makes available ONLY to women and minority entrepreneurs.

            And why haven't shrewd male executives, who are supposedly only interested in the bottom line, already been doing this in great numbers?

            Even simple logic betrays this liberal lie.

            *http://www.amazon.com/Why-Men-Earn-More-Startling/dp/0814472109

             
          • Pete posted at 3:05 pm on Sun, Apr 7, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            The problem is government regulation, mandates, punitive taxation, etc. that have put such a damper on entrepreneurship that most folks find it nearly impossible to pay themselves what they think they deserve by way of private business ownership because business start-up costs are so prohibitive. The best leverage is the threat of competition, but when the government stuck its clumsy finger on the scale of "fairness" to enhance opportunity it had the opposite effect (See Black Unemployment) and instead we have seen opportunities contract. Proof once again that the best way for government to treat folks "fairly" is to promote conditions that make self-determination economically feasible and then get out of the way.

             
          • libra42 posted at 3:00 pm on Sun, Apr 7, 2013.

            libra42 Posts: 461

            In the distant past, (1959) I worked seasonally in a small factory. There were two pay scales. One for women and one for men. Even as a student, summer employee, I made more per hour than full time women doing the same job. It was accepted as "just the way it is" and there was no complaining.

            Those days are gone now and to pretend that they aren't is worse than the the original inequity. Max will do anything to stay on top of the heap and I too, know staffers who have quit him in disgust.

             
          • lousia posted at 2:26 pm on Sun, Apr 7, 2013.

            lousia Posts: 196

            Bronco I was a liberal when i was lots younger, he was kind of conservative, at that time
            good to work for, but not much pay, then later he got married to a liberal, so he was more a Lib, i guess had their ideas. and in later i seen the writing on the wall became a conservative, I had been a liberal cause of my Mom an 2 brothers were , then become my own person. but he didn't pay me more , but i was in sales and bookkeeping etc. loved my job. and customers so stayed put., The guys got paid lots more i
            knew it, I think he didn't think women needed the money and didn't want to give it.; so whatever.

             
          • kohana posted at 1:55 pm on Sun, Apr 7, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109


            Bronco posted at 12:41 pm on Sun, Apr 7, 2013

            Believe it or not, most of them were liberals, working in the education, social services, and entertainment fields. I did not do well in the entertainment sector at all, because the casting couch was not a joke. Mormon girls in the 1950s were very naive.

            I had one job that lasted about 6 months, where during the interview I was asked what I wanted in the way of salary. I quoted a figure that was the absolute minimum I could survive on. He stated, "I don't have people working for me that earn that small amount of money, so I will offer you 'this' amount." It was almost twice what I had requested. He was a conservative, the owner of a furniture store. I worked my tail feathers off as an accounts receivable clerk for the man. Unfortunately, he was killed on the L.A. freeways, the company went into receivership and I was laid off within 2 weeks after the owner died.

             
          • SorrySOB posted at 1:54 pm on Sun, Apr 7, 2013.

            SorrySOB Posts: 484

            "He's a malcontent from the word go and NO amount of kindness or understanding will change that"

            Aw, I'm heartbroken because no one is kind to me or understands me. And here I've been striving so hard to get that.

            By the way, if being a "malcontent" means offering a different point of view and not caring about what the other side thinks, then I fit right in here so what's the problem?

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 1:47 pm on Sun, Apr 7, 2013.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            who new posted at 8:24 am on Sun, Apr 7, 2013.
            who new Posts: 245

            Frank: “…our own esteemed six-term U.S. senator, Max Baucus…”

            Esteemed? As in regard with respect? I can’t think of an individual less deserving of that accolade than Max, particularly in recent years.

            His record of pandering to special interests, crony capitalism, financial favoritism given to former staff members and supporters, and personal moral and ethical shortcomings hardly qualifies him for admiration.

            Max has become the personification of corruption.

            ~~~~~~~~~~~

            Agreed, but having met the man, I prefer "Doddering, Clueless, Top-Down Clown Act"

            [wink]

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 1:44 pm on Sun, Apr 7, 2013.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            Editor posted at 9:42 am on Sun, Apr 7, 2013.


            If anyone presents evidence that a particular worker or group of workers is being discriminated against, then I will stand 100 percent behind those workers.


            ~~~~~~~~~~~~

            Really........???

            Wow..........!!!

            Now, consider all the illegal aliens [or if you prefer, "undocumented Democras"] who have pretty much taken over the manufacturing jobs in L.A. and other places.

            Personally, "discrimination" isn't enough...........DEPORTATION is more in line with my thinking.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 1:40 pm on Sun, Apr 7, 2013.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            Editor posted at 10:05 am on Sun, Apr 7, 2013.

            Frank,

            Why even waste your time........???

            He's a malcontent from the word go and NO amount of kindness or understanding will change that.

            [thumbdown]

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 1:38 pm on Sun, Apr 7, 2013.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            Rob123 posted at 4:30 am on Sun, Apr 7, 2013.

            And heck, we could go on sick call and get free everything! Ah-ha!?

            ~~~~~~~~~~~

            So, when are you gonna check back in.........???

            [wink]

             
          • SorrySOB posted at 1:14 pm on Sun, Apr 7, 2013.

            SorrySOB Posts: 484

            "Statistics should be held in the very lowest regard until they are analyzed using logic and found to be accurate representations of reality" --Frank

            That's the crux of the problem Frank. My point still stands. You will use statistics as long as they meet "your" reality. It may or may not be the right one however.

             
          • SorrySOB posted at 1:10 pm on Sun, Apr 7, 2013.

            SorrySOB Posts: 484

            HTC: (and I believe I speak for Frank, as well)

            When don't you? With you two, it gets confusing as to which one in on who's knee.

             
          • Bronco posted at 1:05 pm on Sun, Apr 7, 2013.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            A new study from the American Association of University Women chose to look at young people one year out of college, the majority of who do not have families or children, to eliminate the influence of family choices on salary (although they would be the first to point out that these choices may arise from unequal societal expectations).

            Their findings show that “occupation, hours worked, and economic sector help us understand the pay gap, but these differences do not fully explain it,” suggesting that discrimination does influence salary – and that better policies are needed to address this inequity. After controlling for these various measurable causes of the pay gap, they showed that on average, two college graduates identical in every way but gender – major, career, hours worked, etc. – would still have a 7% pay gap on average.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 1:02 pm on Sun, Apr 7, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6604

            HighTechCowboy posted at 10:49 am on Sun, Apr 7, 2013.
            [wink]
            "Lean back a little, son. For gGod's sake, it's not ALL about you, you know. Let the people speak!".

             
          • Bronco posted at 12:41 pm on Sun, Apr 7, 2013.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            Why do liberals get the smear on this?
            kohana, when you were underpaid, were your former bosses liberals or did they lean Right?
            louisa, same question?

             
          • Rob123 posted at 12:18 pm on Sun, Apr 7, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6604

            http://www.good.is/posts/why-helping-women-climb-the-ladder-isn-t-a-gender-issue-it-s-good-business?utm_source=upw
            "Why Helping Women Climb the Ladder Isn’t a Gender Issue—It’s Good Business"

             
          • kohana posted at 11:16 am on Sun, Apr 7, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            HighTechCowboy posted at 10:49 am on Sun, Apr 7, 2013
            (1) There are too many kinds of discrimination to even begin to list; hence, just picking one or two politically-expedient groups is hypocritical and dismissive of others who've similarly suffered.

            I respectfully disagree with you. For every man that didn't hobnob on the golf course and lost a promotion, thousands of women didn't even get the same pay of the golf course caddy. And there were no women even being invited to play golf. Matter of fact, most women weren't even allowed to join a golf club.

            You indicate things have been changing in the last 15 years since I was in the work force, but on the whole, not much. I was on a hiring committee, and had an argument with the boss regarding a woman who hadn't mentioned she had a child on her resume. He insisted it showed "secretiveness" thus wouldn't be a reliable employee. I finally convinced him it was none of his damn business if she had 10 kids, she was the best qualified for the position. A year and a half later she took over my job when I walked out, and trained the new Director. The last I heard she was doing my job, and her job and still getting crappy pay.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 10:49 am on Sun, Apr 7, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            lousia posted at 8:00 am on Sun, Apr 7, 2013
            kohana posted at 9:08 am on Sun, Apr 7, 2013

            I'm sorry that both of you had to endure the inequities in the workplace that you did. I certainly don't mean to suggest in any of my comments (and I believe I speak for Frank, as well) that discrimination in the workplace hasn't or doesn't exist.

            It certainly does still exist and, to some extent, will always exist.

            However, it's important to understand that such discrimination takes many forms and often isn't gender-based. I've witnessed men cut out of promotions and miss out on bonuses and raises because they weren't suck-ups who schmoozed with the executive staff on the golf course. I've seen men lose out on raises and promotions because they didn't have an advanced engineering/science degree or an MBA, even though they were smarter and better engineers/scientists than those who did get the raise/promotion. I've seen single fathers held back because of time away from work dealing with parenting responsibilities.

            Heck, I've even seen a couple of the most talented, brilliant engineers I've ever known held back because they were obese and nothing else.

            I'm not trying to minimize the significance of what you endured; rather, I'm trying to make a couple of points here:

            (1) There are too many kinds of discrimination to even begin to list; hence, just picking one or two politically-expedient groups is hypocritical and dismissive of others who've similarly suffered.

            (2) Government isn't the solution to the problem as their unconstitutional interventions have only hurt rather than helped those they pretended to be helping. Many women and minorities are passed over because they're seen as a legal liability if they don't work out; I know, I've been in management discussions where this came up and a woman who everyone liked and wanted to hire didn't get the job offer because the male candidate wasn't a "protected specie." This is especially common at the executive level where the candidate has the monetary resources with which to pursue a frivolous gender-based law suit.

            Laws cannot change human nature or behavior. History makes that abundantly clear. Industries that require well-educated people respect and hire other well-educated people, regardless of race, religion, color or gender. High tech is a perfect example of that. Medicine and other sciences are good examples as well.

            The times are changing for the better in this regard, but I can assure you that its education and free-market forces that are changing it for the better, NOT government interference.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 10:29 am on Sun, Apr 7, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            who new: I can’t think of an individual less deserving of that accolade than Max, particularly in recent years.

            HTC: I know a couple of his former staff members who'd think that you were being too kind to ol' Max.

             
          • posted at 10:05 am on Sun, Apr 7, 2013.

            Posts:

            Clarification for SorrySOB: Statistics should be held in the very lowest regard until they are analyzed using logic and found to be accurate representations of reality. --Frank

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 10:00 am on Sun, Apr 7, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            islandman: If any profit-making company could save 23 - 25% on salary costs by hiring women only, to do the same job, that is what they would do. Clearly people on this "equal pay" bandwagon have no clue as to how business works.

            HTC: Of course, you're absolutely correct.

            My fellow CEOs, within my circle of friends and associates, and I are constantly annoyed by this ignorant manipulative chatter, especially those who are audited as part of a government contract and have to explain every little difference between women's pay and pay for minorities. When it is discovered that some highly-valued and skilled employees who happened to be women, minorities or both, are being paid more than others with the same job title, those 'discrepancies' are quietly overlooked.

            In other words, the same kind of 'evidence' that white males are being paid less simply doesn't count for anything even though it's exactly the same kind of lame, nonsensical anecdotal evidence.

            There's only one reason why con-men like Baucus and others in his party are once again beating the drum that women are being exploited in the work place: They desperately want women to believe that this Great Recession really did end a long time ago and that it's greedy, misogynistic employers (who are probably Republicans as well) and not braindead Democratic policies that account for their continued economic distress.

            islandman: Along those lines, with the drop in college attendance by males and the increase by females, one can imagine the day when the "equal pay" statistic shifts to the opposite direction. Then what will these folks moan about?

            HTC: You raise a good point. I own a company in the high tech space and can assure you that the high tech industry is already hiring far more women and minorities into engineering and science positions because they make up the majority of college grads in those fields. Not only that but they very frequently possess better communication skills, are more collaborative and more detail-focused.

            I can also assure you that we value these women and minorities VERY highly and their pay levels, bonuses, stock options, and other forms of compensation clearly reflect that respect and appreciation.

            When high tech gets audited by government authorities, they simply don't know what to do with us because we completely blow away their bull$hit theories about discrimination against women and minorities.

            But don't hold your breath waiting for these morons to begin complaining that white men are disadvantaged and that the "war on boys" in many of our public schools had anything to do with it; after all, the liberal sword is a single-edged sword that only cuts one way: their way.

            Theirs is a complex world with a victimhood mentality that even has a hierarchy to its victimhood which works similarly to Dianne Feinstein's old point system for 'assault' weapons; that is, it's based upon how many different characteristics you possess with points assigned for each characteristic that's present. If you're a woman, you get one point. If you're also an ethnic minority, you get another point. If you grew up in a poor household, score another point. If you attended a poor, inner-city school, you get another point. If you're a Muslim, that's another point; but, sorry, Jews only get half a point these days.

            Bonus points can be earned by each group of victims by making more noise and protesting more loudly than other groups, thus elevating their group within the hierarchical framework.

            There's no way to lose points in the system unless you're male, white, Christian and/or 'rich', which makes it almost impossible to ever find yourself in a recognized victim category if you fall into any of those groups. And no points are ever lost by other 'victims' for such things as failure to graduate from high school, having two kids before your 18th birthday, joining a gang and building a criminal record or majoring in "International Studies" or "Political Science" in college.

            The calculus within this hierarchy can get complicated; for example, who is the greater victim here: a middle class, college-educated black man taught Islamic theology as a young boy or a rich white well-educated Christian woman? The man loses a point for being male but gains a point for being black; however, this leaves his score at '0', so the liberal is forced to give him at least half a point for having been educated in a Madrasa, since Muslims are the new, preferred liberal victim group. SCORE: +.5

            The woman gets a point for being a woman but loses a point each for being rich, white and Christian. SCORE: -2.

            The 2008 presidential primary certainly taught this math to Hillary Clinton.

            Without this carefully maintained hierarchy of victimhood, liberals would be forced to acknowledge that ALL of us are visited by various disadvantages or challenges in life and therefore equally 'victims'. Forced to acknowledge that, there'd be no way they could divide us against each other or justify special treatment of one group over another.

            The end of 'victimhood' would spell the end of class warfare and, ultimately, the Democratic Party which has built its power around just such divisiveness.

            Application of this bizarre calculus has produced some especially bizarre outcomes; for example, with Muslims now being the preferred protected victim class, we now find ourselves in situations where the calculus establishes the right of a radical Muslim to behave like a radical Muslim without being labelled a radical Muslim by supposedly bigoted white people and that right trumps the right of a woman to not have her head severed off her neck!:

            http://vocalminority.typepad.com/blog/2009/03/adventures-in-pc-land-the-victimhood-hierarchy-radical-muslims-win-by-a-head.html

             
          • SorrySOB posted at 9:57 am on Sun, Apr 7, 2013.

            SorrySOB Posts: 484

            "They are “statistics” and thus should be held in the very lowest regard."

            Says Frank, but in truth this statement should be rewritten to say, "They are “statistics” and thus should be held in the very lowest regard. (unless they are helping me to further MY agenda)."

            I can go back to past columns to find Frank using plenty of statistics to point out how much of a bum he thinks President Obama is or how threatening and scary the liberals are.

             
          • lousia posted at 9:53 am on Sun, Apr 7, 2013.

            lousia Posts: 196

            Thank you very much Kohana, was a very good comment appreciate it, I liked my job so i took lots of garbage and less pay, then the guys, and my boss claimed that i was his best friend, now i think about it LOL--- i made him look good, did l lots of his work---- oh well.--- but a women should get what the man does for the same work. and the bonus were far different i know this for a fact. Thanks -------good two cents ;

             
          • posted at 9:42 am on Sun, Apr 7, 2013.

            Posts:

            Kohana: Thanks for your input. I appreciate your personal struggles int he workplace. My mother went through similar issues while in the work force in the 1950s to 1980s.

            However, there is no doubt about what I say in this column. Even the proponents of Equal Pay Day do not claim that they are talking about Equal Pay for Equal Work in their 77 percent statistic. It is, just as I said, the average of the total amount paid to all women workers versus the average of the total amount paid to all men workers.

            If anyone presents evidence that a particular worker or group of workers is being discriminated against, then I will stand 100 percent behind those workers. But that doesn't mean I am persuaded by "empty rhetoric." There have to be facts presented.

            If employers could hire women at 77 perent of what they pay men to do the same work, then employers would strive to hire just women in order to do the job more cheaply and thus increase their profits. This is of course not happening.

            Frank

             
          • kohana posted at 9:08 am on Sun, Apr 7, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            I'm wondering when this "equal pay for equal work" kicked in that is now considered obsolete, so everybody is to get equal pay across the board. I've been retired for some years, so I must have missed that part. I held many jobs over a 50 year working history and not once did I ever get paid what my male counterpart was paid. When I complained about the inequality, it was suggested that I find a boyfriend or husband to make up the difference. And when I protested the insinuation, was fired! I finally learned to keep my resentment to myself, as I needed the job.

            Wasn't there a lawsuit not too long ago about Wal-Mart not paying their female clerks and supervisors the same as the males? Wasn't it not long ago that females who discovered they were not paid the same as their male counterparts couldn't sue for the difference as they didn't file within a certain time period, even though they had just discovered the difference? I even filed a law suit once, because I left a job after a raised was refused, and they hired a male to do my job at TWICE the pay. And I lost the suit because, "it was the right of the employer to pay whatever they wanted to pay." And on every job I was ever hired, I had to sign an agreement not to discuss pay issues with co-workers. How's that for equality?

            Of course, now I am reaping the rewards of this "equal pay" I never received, with a much lower Social Security Retirement level, that some of our wonderful senators claim is just "greed" for wanting my money back that was paid into it. And now that P.O.S. sitting in Our White House, who is keeping us out of it, wants to lower the amount even more.

            BTW, my parents didn't collect SS Retirement. My mother was wise enough to choose, when there was a choice, not to participate in the Ponzi scheme, and my dad died a year after he retired.

            Tell ya Frank, this is a sore subject with me having lived all my working life with "unequal" pay. Being a male you probably were never discriminated against because of your sex. That crack about AAUW was shabby as well. My mother was a member, and they give a scholarship in her name for her work to correct some of these issues. There are plenty of STUPID employers who do exactly what you claim they don't. As an assistant to a department head that quit, I applied for his position and an outside male was hired, and the company CEOs wanted me to train the S.O.B. to do the job! I told them to stick it where the sun doesn't shine and walked off the job.

            What is really funny Frank, on several different jobs I had, when I was finally forced to find a better paying job to support my children, the companies I left had to hire 2 or 3 people to do the job I did, which cost them far more than paying me a living wage.

            I don't know about your little fiefdom at the DIL, but maybe you'd be wise to thoroughly examine all the pay levels of all your employees so at least, there is "equal pay for equal work." Maybe you haven't examined this issue as in-depth as you should. I think this is truly what the issue is and not a "Marxist" plot to cut wages for CEOs, engineers, and skilled workers. A female who can drive a truck should be paid exactly the same as a male. A female account clerk should be paid exactly the same as a male account clerk.


             
          • who new posted at 8:24 am on Sun, Apr 7, 2013.

            who new Posts: 367

            Frank: “…our own esteemed six-term U.S. senator, Max Baucus…”

            Esteemed? As in regard with respect? I can’t think of an individual less deserving of that accolade than Max, particularly in recent years.

            His record of pandering to special interests, crony capitalism, financial favoritism given to former staff members and supporters, and personal moral and ethical shortcomings hardly qualifies him for admiration.

            Max has become the personification of corruption.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 8:19 am on Sun, Apr 7, 2013.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            It's just NOT going to work, Frank, trying to get people to THINK and such.............[whistling]

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:17 am on Sun, Apr 7, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9902

            Frank: Of course, not. You can’t just lump all women together and all men together and claim that, based on gender alone, their average salaries should somehow match. It takes about 30 seconds of logical thought to realize that this statistic (women’s wages as a percentage of men’s wages) is a politically expedient chimera that has no relationship to any meaningful metric.

            HTC: 30 seconds? Well, there's the problem with our liberal friends who swallow this leftist garbage, hook, line and sinker. That's about 28 seconds longer than most of them can do before their brains go into thermal shutdown.

             
          • lousia posted at 8:00 am on Sun, Apr 7, 2013.

            lousia Posts: 196

            A very good topic Frank, Lot of of pro's and con's on this subject.. As i to, like lot of women have worked out.
            I did plus 30 years just to stay afloat i guess, my last job I liked the best not saying pay wise, the men got lots more then I did , and I did mostly what they all did, plus cleaning and book work on top of it all, I am not claiming I did not like my job, So sometimes i guess you put up with things. But theres CEO'S that i don't think they earn their wages at all, someone usually and I think mostly women keep them going. Lots of unfairness goes around with both men and women, I think its lots to do with who does the most brown nosing, and that's in everything in the work place. And i have seen lots of this. My opinion I know we all have one. Liked your comment Mooseberryin , and Thanks Frank; enjoy your column always make lots of sense.

             
          • islandman posted at 7:26 am on Sun, Apr 7, 2013.

            islandman Posts: 1

            If any profit-making company could save 23 - 25% on salary costs by hiring women only, to do the same job, that is what they would do. Clearly people on this "equal pay" bandwagon have no clue as to how business works.
            Along those lines, with the drop in college attendance by males and the increase by females, one can imagine the day when the "equal pay" statistic shifts to the opposite direction. Then what will these folks moan about?

             
          • Rob123 posted at 4:30 am on Sun, Apr 7, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6604

            "Ultimately, the so-called “paycheck fairness” movement can best be described by one word — Marxism. “From each according to his abilities; to each according to his (or in this case ‘her’) needs.” By lumping all men into one wage pool and all women into another wage pool and then demanding that both pools should be equal, we are insisting on redistribution of wealth (or in this case “income”). Merit doesn’t matter. Work conditions don’t matter. Experience doesn’t matter. Choices about what kind of work to pursue don’t matter. What matters is equality of outcome, not fairness. "

            Although I only spent 3 years in the Military, with a MOS of 73C20 (Finance), according to your analysis I was working in a Marxist He//-hole where pay was determined by Rank and Longevity irrespective of Sex, sexual orientation, or actual job duties. Thanks Frank, I knew there was something rotten going on, besides the Carpet Bombing of Civilians in order to kill some bad guy Commies who only pretended to be Vietnamese Nationalists, and lived among the Civilians.
            And heck, we could go on sick call and get free everything! Ah-ha!?

             
          • mooseberryinn posted at 11:28 pm on Sat, Apr 6, 2013.

            mooseberryinn Posts: 2693

            Yup, good old Max - musta been dropped on his head, or maybe just had a few too many days of hard work in D.C. Yeah, that's it. Maybe he really needs to retire. Ya know, take a few years off and maybe read the Obama/Demo-dummy care law he "helped" create. As for the latest? It shouldn't be a surprise. Sounds like Max, but I'm thinking he may not be all-in for himself getting "paycheck fairness".