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Posted: Saturday, November 17, 2012 7:00 pm | Updated: 12:36 pm, Thu Apr 17, 2014.

Winning the presidency isn’t about who you nominate, but about who votes — and most importantly about where they live.

The Democratic Party has recognized this, and turned it to a huge advantage in winning the last two presidential elections, and creating what appears to be a virtual lock on the presidency into the foreseeable future by dominating the Electoral College map.

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          Welcome to the discussion.

          216 comments:

          • donho posted at 8:06 pm on Sat, Nov 24, 2012.

            donho Posts: 187

            cowboy, for once in these comments, you are right, I did mispell a word or two, but I did vote correctly, and he is in the Whitehouse for the next four years! How is it when you are a two time loser to a Democratic presidnet elect, does it really effect your character and political integrity as obvious as your comments seem to display? Just curious, really never been a loser in politics or life in general, and I am assuming you can speak with authority, experience, and knowledge!

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 5:47 pm on Sat, Nov 24, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            Rebel Rouser: fight them because when Bush removed our writ to habeas corpus as part of the homeland security act, I found it unbelievable that most, if not all, of my Republican friends didn't even raise a brow, and most didn't even understand what had happened. That is a loss of freedom that should have awakened the monster in all men, yet, few considered it at all.

            HTC: Are you referring to the Military Commissions Act of 2006 which sought to deny the courts the authority to hear habeas corpus appeals from Gitmo detainees? If so, you've apparently forgotten that had bipartisan support. When SCOTUS ruled on the Act, they determined that government had the authority to hold detainees who were a legitimate threat and truly were "enemy combatants"; but, they did rule that the courts had the right to review their status to ensure that each detainee fit that definition.

            Any reports that the "Homeland Security Act" removed everyone's right to such appeals is pure liberal B.S.

            I personally refuse to get all worked up over B.S. How about you?

            Rebel Rouser: I don't see only the politicians as the boogey men, I see all people who crave and obtain massive power as the cause of most things rendered by politicians, because they are not representing their constituents, they are representing those wealthy, power mongers who bought them lock, stock, and barrel!. Is this all too deep for you H?

            HTC: Please explain to me why, if the "wealthy, power mongers" are running the show, 70% of this year's federal spending went to entitlements for the 'poor' and that will grow, according to the CBO, to over 90% by the end of the decade. Shouldn't it be flowing into the weathy's pockets instead?

            Furthermore, if they're running the show, why haven't they been able to do anything about what are the highest taxes on business in the developed world? Why haven't they been able to eliminate the death tax? Why have they completely failed at reducing, let alone eliminating, our massive $4T per year regulatory burden and our anti-fossil fuels energy policies?

            If they really are running the show, we should all be afraid because they're clearly incompetent and completely unable to even act in their own best interests.

            I'm sorry, but your conspiracy theory completely flies in the face of all the evidence.

            Rebel Rouser: Bottom line here, is that I respect your perception of our freedoms, you and the other talkie talks here have NO respect for mine.

            HTC: How can I? I still haven't heard your definition. That's why I keep asking for it.

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 5:32 pm on Sat, Nov 24, 2012.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1561

            Pete posted at 6:46 pm on Fri, Nov 23, 2012.

            Hi Petee, Thanks for acknowledging me again. After our last little spat, I ended up thinking you didn't love me anymore, but now I am happy again.

            Brain teaser: Who said:

            "Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. "

            HInt: It wasn't Petee!


            Okay, give up?


            God said it!

            Who knows better than God?

            HTC, "no soup for you"

            Are extremely wealthy, power mongers considered meek? hmmmm, I really don't know the answer here.

            I wonder if i'm meek?

            If anyone here feels like like they meet this meek qualification, I would very much like to discuss it with you!

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 5:19 pm on Sat, Nov 24, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            Rebel Rouser posted at 4:45 pm on Sat, Nov 24, 2012

            Now that you've told my why you think Republicans send mixed messages(and I'll ignore for now your failure to identify similar hypocrisy by Democrats), how about telling me how YOU would define "freedom?"

            But I do agree with you that SCOTUS should be a source of concern for any freedom-loving American who has been paying attention to the history of that court. But that is also largely the fault of the electorate for not insisting that appointments by made of individuals who, rather than seeing the Constitution as a "living document", see it as a contract between the citizens and their government wherein that government is only granted by the people the very few powers enumerated for it in that document.

            When you allow justices to exceed their authority, as they have on numerous occasions, because you liked some of those rulings, you immediately make yourself subject to their future whim. I wish more Americans understood that and realized that we don't want ideologues from the left or the right presiding over our courts but men and women who take the Constitution seriously.

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 5:11 pm on Sat, Nov 24, 2012.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1561

            not privy to. What difference is there between a prison made of steel reinforced concrete walls, and one made out of economic desperation? Let me tell you, when you can sit there in your palace du jour, and not give a damned about your fellow Americans because you are wealthy and they are (fill in the blank ie. lazy azzes, Mexicans, neer do wells, niggars, etc., etc., there is much more wrong with our country than who the President of the United States is. I fight them because when Bush removed our writ to habeas corpus as part of the homeland security act, I found it unbelievable that most, if not all, of my Republican friends didn't even raise a brow, and most didn't even understand what had happened. That is a loss of freedom that should have awakened the monster in all men, yet, few considered it at all. I don't see only the politicians as the boogey men, I see all people who crave and obtain massive power as the cause of most things rendered by politicians, because they are not representing their constituents, they are representing those wealthy, power mongers who bought them lock, stock, and barrel!. Is this all too deep for you H? Bottom line here, is that I respect your perception of our freedoms, you and the other talkie talks here have NO respect for mine. If this were to change I would be one of the first to get on board.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 4:54 pm on Sat, Nov 24, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            donho posted at 3:35 pm on Sat, Nov 24, 2012.

            Apparently your "intellect capicity" doesn't include the ability to spell or use correct grammar; of course, those are clearly the least of your intellectual failings.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 4:51 pm on Sat, Nov 24, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            Bronco posted at 3:22 pm on Sat, Nov 24, 2012.

            So, Bronco, being the little word-weasel that you are, you don't cite your source and mix synonym with the actual definition of words. Apparently you're as ignorant of the etymology of words as you are just about every other subject we've discussed here.

            While there are numerous dictionaries floating around these days, particularly online, most contain little information about the precise etymological definition of words and merely reflect the modern bastardizations of the English language.

            kohana merely demonstrates that her level of education and literacy significantly exceeds your own, for her use of the word "detest" is quite accurate and does not mean the same thing as the "word" hate, even if you and your illiterate sources say otherwise.

            The original and stil accurate meaning of the word "detest" is to "dislike intensely." The proper defintion s the word "hate" is a much more intense dislike which includes malice towards the despised object/person.

            If this is too nuanced for you, the failure is yours, not hers.


             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 4:45 pm on Sat, Nov 24, 2012.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1561

            "What does "freedom" mean to you?"

            Considering the "right, left" paradigm which is foisted upon us, I would use the Republican's insistence of constantly fighting to keep women from having abortions, citizens from using cannabis, tyrant landowners acting as if they have "absolute property rights", allowing corporations to control and manipulate everything in our daily lives like they own the joint!!! Your opinion of freedom is some what paradoxical as you (and most goody, goody, two shoes Republicans) talk about this freedom thing all through the election cycle, then once elected into positions of governance, proceed to do nothing more than attack the above mentioned items and other personal freedom issues without ever doing what the say they will do (if elected). Freedom of religion must include ALL religious beliefs, not just the Christian religion, or the whole process won't/can't work. Now that we know SCOTUS is mainly political, i'm afraid we have a very long road ahead of us to insure any individual freedoms being attacked in the future. The wealthy keep on getting richer at the woe's of the poor trying to sustain themselves, while being controlled and manipulated by there greedy "Wall Street" business deals which the average investor is

             
          • Pete posted at 3:45 pm on Sat, Nov 24, 2012.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Rob123 posted at 4:10 am on Sat, Nov 24, 2012

            The only thing being spit was my coffee when I realized you actually expect to be believed despite your history of...umm...stretching the truth? Eh Hans?

             
          • donho posted at 3:35 pm on Sat, Nov 24, 2012.

            donho Posts: 187

            cowboy, are you really as stupid as you write here, or just trying to get a response from those that are so much more intellgient than yourself, such as I am! After reading your political opinions, it really renforces my intellect capicity beyond your own wildest dreams, trying to live with that knowledge must be as frustrating and disappointing as being a Romney groopie, and to think you will wake to that factual truth every day for the next four years, at least!!

             
          • Bronco posted at 3:22 pm on Sat, Nov 24, 2012.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            kohana: The fact I detest the communist/Marxist POS sitting in OUR White House hasn't been a secret...I've been posting for over a year that the t u r d stinking up the place needs to go. So why again was my response to RR "over the top hate?"
            HTC: Perhaps you've noticed that lefties eventually always accuse those who disagree with them as being "hate-filled" and "hate-mongers?"
            ---------------------------
            de·test (d-tst)
            tr.v. de·test·ed, de·test·ing, de·tests
            To dislike intensely; hate; abhor

            hate |hāt| verb
            feel intense or passionate dislike for (someone); detest

            You two...ha, ha, ha! One says she hates, then can't understand why she's being called a hater. The other spins it like a three-year old. Ha, ha, ha! You two...

             
          • Bronco posted at 3:13 pm on Sat, Nov 24, 2012.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            kohana posted at 10:29 am on Sat, Nov 24, 2012.
            "The president elect did not have the "great majority of the popular vote," he got the electoral votes by fraud."
            ----------------------
            Uh, the Right side of the room posted several times before the election that when Romney won, the liberal/lefties would be crying "VOTER FRAUD!" Do yourself a favor...don't become one of US. Just shut up and accept the loss with some dignity.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 2:38 pm on Sat, Nov 24, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            kohana: So why again was my response to RR "over the top hate?"

            HTC: Perhaps you've noticed that lefties eventually always accuse those who disagree with them as being "hate-filled" and "hate-mongers?"

            Perhaps you've noticed that they constantly make assumptions from the statements of others that simply aren't supported by those statements?

            Perhaps you've noticed that they can't recognize a clear and present danger if it struck them in the nose?

            These are just a few of the many intellectual faults of our progressive neighbors.

            Since they can't be fixed, my best advice is that you just don't let it affect you and smply ignore it.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 2:31 pm on Sat, Nov 24, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            Rebel Rouser: I don't want to change a thing about you, except maybe you becoming a person who would allow some of us the "freedom" we deserve.

            HTC: My sentiments precisely! But what does "freedom" mean to you?

            In my view, which is heavily influenced by the Founders and the Constitution, "freedom" is both the right to make my own choices in life (and live with the consequences of those choices) as well as being left alone by those who would seek to direct my life and, on occasion, deny me my rights including those defined in our Bill of Rights.

            As such a free man, I have the right to decide when, if and what kind of healthcare and health insurance I want and not have it forced upon me by the federal government.

            I have the right to life and to breathe without being taxed because I do and refuse to cave into that government's unconstitutional demand that I buy insurance they define in a market they've regulated nearly to death.

            I have the right to keep the hard-earned fruits of my labors and not have them taken from and given to someone who did nothing to deserve them. As a free man, I am NOT the servant of the state, whose earnings are fair game for those in Washington who think they have a right to redistribute my earnings in order to buy votes and pursue a perverted sense of "social justice."

            As a free man, I have the right to the free exercise of conscience, especially religious conscience as guaranteed by the First Amendment; therefore, I have the right to refuse to pay for someone else's contraceptiives or abortions, not only because it is unconstitutional redistribution of wealth but also because it violates my right to conscience. While I have no right to forbid anyone else the right to those things, I DO have the right to refuse to pay for them.

            As a free man, I should have the right to reject government's Ponzi scheme known as Social Security and invest my retirement savings in instruments which will provide a FAR better return, are under my control, can't be reduced or taken away at the whim of bureaucrats and can be left to those of my choosing upon my death.

            As a free man, I have the right to send my children to the schools of my choice and to not be forced to spend three times as much on a failed public school system as we did only a few decades ago, and only to see my kids get half the education we got back then.

            As a free man, I have the right to own property without the fear that the government might take that property merely because they might tax it beyond my ability to pay their onerous charge. I have seen this happen to far too many elderly and veterans. If our property isn't safe from the government, neither are we.

            These are just some aspects of real freedom as our Founders intended all of us to enjoy.

            What does "freedom" mean to you?

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 1:55 pm on Sat, Nov 24, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            donho: ...with a great majority of the popular vote....

            HTC: That's why you Obamatons are so easily sucked in by Obama's rhetoric: You're all absoutely horrible at math. If you think 2 million votes in a nation of 320 million people is a "great majority", you're an even bigger idiot than I give you credit for.

            That's a mere six-tenths of one percent. I'll bet you don't know what 6 inches is either.


             
          • JBSTONE posted at 1:15 pm on Sat, Nov 24, 2012.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            Bronco posted at 11:14 pm on Fri, Nov 23, 2012.

            .........looks like it's time to put on your robe and start warning folks again...........!!!

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 1:13 pm on Sat, Nov 24, 2012.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            donho posted at 12:42 pm on Sat, Nov 24, 2012.


            ......well argued.

            [for a twelve-year old with a chip on his shoulder]

            [thumbup]

             
          • donho posted at 12:42 pm on Sat, Nov 24, 2012.

            donho Posts: 187

            kohana, no more livng or documented proof is needed as to why Obama defeated his opponent so badly in both the popular vote and the electoral vote, the winning majority had only to read the comments and opinons of those such as yourself, to realize that this country could not now or ever be voted into such oblivion and destruction as those that would be supported from the likes of you and the other whacko right fringe of this nation! Again, your defining and proving beyond doubt as to one of the main reasons and purposes of voting for Obama was poltical opponents from your walk of life in the right wing fringe circus that contributed so much and you had so little to begin with!!

             
          • Rob123 posted at 11:07 am on Sat, Nov 24, 2012.

            Rob123 Posts: 6569

            kohana posted at 10:29 am on Sat, Nov 24, 2012.
            "The president elect did not have the "great majority of the popular vote," he got the electoral votes by fraud."

            That's quite a BIG fraud! It probably stretches back to the beginning of time?
            https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=526155184061919&set=a.313621581981948.84668.275373239140116&type=1&theater
            (thanks, Bronco!)

             
          • kohana posted at 10:29 am on Sat, Nov 24, 2012.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            Another useful idiot has shown up and apparently knows so much that isn't so. First of all we are not bitter and impotent, we are saddened and in despair at what is going to become of our beloved country.

            The president elect did not have the "great majority of the popular vote," he got the electoral votes by fraud.

            The rest of your rant is typical left wing ignorance.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 9:39 am on Sat, Nov 24, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            kohana: http://ricochet.com/main-feed/Psst!-Wanna-Hear-What-a-Real-Republican-Sounds-Like

            HTC: Powerful speech filled with more truth and common sense than a typical progressive could possible absorb in ten lifetimes.

            Had Romney talked that way, it would have been a landslide victory for their ticket; of course, the mental midgets on the left scoff and laugh at that suggestion because, as they typically do, they again fail to read correctly the actual pulse beat of Main Street America.

            Polls continue to show that most Americans believe the government is too big, spends too much and interferes too heavily in their lives and livelihood. Three quarters know that Obama's "trickle down government" doesn't work and that only the private sector can create jobs. A similar percentage know that we have to substantially reduce the size of the entitlement state.

            If the GOP can field candidates in 2014 that talk like Mr. Whittle and actually believe what they're saying, they can hold onto the House and take back the Senate, possibly with veto-proof majorities to ensure that they can get America's business done in spite of Mr. Obama.

             
          • donho posted at 9:32 am on Sat, Nov 24, 2012.

            donho Posts: 187

            It is so satisfying and glourious to read the opinons and comments from such obvious and bitter impotent losers such as this the editor, and all those right wing whackos that just cannot stand to wake each and every morning realizing that the president elect, with a great majority of the popular vote, and a extreme majority of electoral votes, was Obama, and the republican nominee Romney was defeated in such an overwhelming manner by the intelligent and patritoic majority vote of this great country! The fact that you have to live each and every day not accepting the truth, that your candidate got defeated by the majority of amercian citizens and voters, at times is just much more than you can accept, and woefuly, you will spend many many mornings and days dwelling in self pity, and the country will absouletly go on without you and your unwarrented hateful and racial attacks on the president of the USA! While I have gracious and satisiying mornings to wake knowing that my vote counted for the relection of our president, you will go on never experiencing that contentment and realization that that your choice could not win, just lost enormously!

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:37 am on Sat, Nov 24, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            kohana: It is doubtful, for example, that the Obama Administration will condemn the new decree giving Mursi total power in the country.

            HTC: Don't hold your breath waiting for that announcement, especially since he would be acknowledging his own naivete and inability to comprehend what was obvious to everyone else; namely, that the Muslim Brotherhood would guarantee that Egypt's "Arab Spring" was a very short season.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 8:19 am on Sat, Nov 24, 2012.

            Rob123 Posts: 6569

            http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/11/22/1231321/prominent-republican-senator-abandons-norquists-no-tax-pledge/
            "Prominent Republican Senator Abandons Norquist’s No-Tax Pledge"

            [smile] A two way street? Imagine that.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:10 am on Sat, Nov 24, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            Bronco: (I have photos of him. He drinks Coca Cola)

            HTC: Well, offer the poor man a beer!

             
          • Rob123 posted at 4:10 am on Sat, Nov 24, 2012.

            Rob123 Posts: 6569

            Pete: "Rob123 posted at 11:44 am on Fri, Nov 23, 2012

            "And what exactly are the reforms he is trying to push through?"

            Oh good grief. Maybe if you took the MSNBC I.V. out of your arm and unplugged the Daily Show you'd have a clue."
            *********************************************************************
            FYI.....I sat down with my calculator, and used 100 hours as the base for watching the News on T.V..
            With 100 as the base, I reckon: MSNBC=5, Fox News=5, Fox Business News=5, CNBC=25, CNN=25, Local News=25, News Magazines=10.
            But I do appreciate the fact that when you spit into the wind and then try to blame me for the mess, you tend to keep the whine at a laconic level. Thanks.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 3:46 am on Sat, Nov 24, 2012.

            Rob123 Posts: 6569

            kohana posted at 8:03 pm on Fri, Nov 23, 2012.

            "The fact I detest the communist/Marxist POS sitting in OUR White House hasn't been a secret Rob."

            No, it hasn't. However, "The Metamorphosis" (Franz Kafka) in your rhetoric and appearance of civility has been shocking. I have even gone so far as to leave a nice glass of milk out for you, but you prefer the spoiled table scraps and the company of another retired government pensioner with a really bad attitude, olde Moose. Is this what most retired Civil Servants can look forward to in their Golden Years?

            I guess I am just trying to gain some clarity on the Human Condition. It does, however, help me understand the detached Irony that so many Generation X and Y'ers come to embrace as they read the rantings of the Retired Right.

             
          • Bronco posted at 11:14 pm on Fri, Nov 23, 2012.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            Tide's in again, Rob.

             
          • kohana posted at 8:03 pm on Fri, Nov 23, 2012.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            The fact I detest the communist/Marxist POS sitting in OUR White House hasn't been a secret Rob. I've been posting for over a year that the t u r d stinking up the place needs to go. So why again was my response to RR "over the top hate?"

            I don't hate RR, matter of fact I tried to find him once some time ago to help him fight the petty bureaucrats that put a damper on recycling at the dumpster sites. I sat at the Creston site for a number of days hoping he'd show up. If he did he must have been in a suit and tie, I was looking for someone in tiedye.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 7:28 pm on Fri, Nov 23, 2012.

            Rob123 Posts: 6569

            kohana posted at 7:11 pm on Fri, Nov 23, 2012.

            "We'll probably keep it up until you and your like, admit that Obama is a communist/Marxist POS....."

            I must have missed the tongue in cheek part......

             
          • kohana posted at 7:11 pm on Fri, Nov 23, 2012.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            Rob posted at 5:54
            That is just over-the-top hate.

            My response to RR was a tongue in cheek reply to RR’s claim we were boring him. So how do you come up with the idea it was “just over-the-top hate?” Not one hateful word was used, I didn’t call him any nasty names, didn’t accuse him of anything but not facing the truth. And you call that hate? I’m not even angry. But you see hate in my response. Wow! I disagree with your opinion and you find that hateful! Wow again. Not only that but you see it in a reply to another person, not even you. Rob, get a grip!

             
          • Pete posted at 7:00 pm on Fri, Nov 23, 2012.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            RR..."brain @#%*ed"

            Rob..."The mood swing has been way too abrupt..."

            Manly men for sure.

             
          • Pete posted at 6:46 pm on Fri, Nov 23, 2012.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Rebel Rouser posted at 5:28 pm on Fri, Nov 23, 2012

            Empowering others to do your ideological dirty work doesn't absolve you of responsibility...it simply indicates that you don't have the stomach to face the consequences of your twisted ethos. Read some history...it is particularly hard on useful idiots....or it used to be before progressives and the NEA started teaching it.

             
          • Pete posted at 6:36 pm on Fri, Nov 23, 2012.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Rob123 posted at 11:44 am on Fri, Nov 23, 2012

            "And what exactly are the reforms he is trying to push through?"

            Oh good grief. Maybe if you took the MSNBC I.V. out of your arm and unplugged the Daily Show you'd have a clue.

            Rob123 posted at 5:54 pm on Fri, Nov 23, 2012

            And I'm sure your grandkids would be proud of your post to Kohana. Wow.

             
          • kohana posted at 6:23 pm on Fri, Nov 23, 2012.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            Dearest Rebel,

            You are free to be whomever you wish to be, however you jump to conclusions about who I am. I do not watch TV, and have never watched a Fox News program in my life. When I watched TV before I pulled cable last summer, all I could see was ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, BBC, PBS News Hour, and all those are progressive/liberal news casts that do nothing but spin, spin, and spin. I also do not listen to the radio as I am near totally deaf and need to lip read, can't do that on the radio. Most You tube videos also don't have CC, so how do you think I've become brain @#%*ed?

            I'll tell you, I read, read, and read some more, and I think, think and think some more, and finally I connect the dots. That's what logical, rational people do. And when a person is presented with facts, facts, and more facts, and refuse to admit them as facts, then I begin to wonder why. I do not want to change you as a person, your religion or non religion, not even your political party, because I voted for a democrat about half my voting life.

            What is happening now is our country's basic foundations are being destroyed and you do not see what is happening. Matter of fact, you refuse to see what is happening, your vision of the future seems not be farther than next week, or next month, or next year. I am looking at 10 or 20 years from now, and we very well may be in a very dangerous place, because Obama is not a democrat, or a republican, or even a libertarian, he is a MARXIST/COMMUNIST and the terrifying part is that you don't see the terror in that. He is also a Muslim sympathizer, and you see no danger with the Muslim Brotherhood sitting with him in the White House. In addition he is spending this country beyond our ability to stay afloat, and when the people of this country finally awaken, and boot his a s s out, if we are still able to do so, we will be in the same kind of depression from FDR. My mother dug in garbage cans for potato peels and carrot tops to make a broth to keep me alive in 1938. Do you want that for your daughter or son for your grandchildren? I certainly don't want that for my, well, great grandchildren, now.

            You deserve to have your freedom to be the person you are, however, not recognizing facts staring you in the face, will take away any freedom you have now. I go to conservative web sites because they actually talk facts instead of calling each other names. I try to follow the comments on NYT or HP or some of the other sites and within a few comments, comes the nastiness.

            Try reading Ricochet.com for one whole week, all the articles and comments. Just give it the good old rally try, of just one week. These people are the adults in the room. They discuss subjects instead of condemning each other.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 5:54 pm on Fri, Nov 23, 2012.

            Rob123 Posts: 6569

            Rebel Rouser posted at 5:28 pm on Fri, Nov 23, 2012.
            Nice, Reb.......

            kohana posted at 4:14 pm on Fri, Nov 23, 2012.
            That is just over-the-top hate. If you were my grandma, I'd be taking you down for a physical. The mood swing has been way too abrupt, and way too nasty for normal waking consciousness.

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 5:28 pm on Fri, Nov 23, 2012.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1561

            Dearest Kay, I've never made a pledge, moral/ethical obligation, or life long commitment to change anything about you, your ideology, or your religious proclivity, yet you, and your band of angry Gypsies, have done nothing except try to force "teach" us, and convince us, and change everything about us, to YOUR ideological ways. I however, don't want to change one thing about YOU, (except for hoping you become a person who would allow some of us the "freedom" WE deserve). You do however, post a great deal of very interesting perspectives. However, many of the links you provide just teaches me you have been brain @#%*ed by these "FOX" news" sites, shows, and radio programs, (not to mention your cohorts here), and will most likely never recover. I don't want to change a thing about you, except maybe you becoming a person who would allow some of us the "freedom" we deserve.

             
          • kohana posted at 4:14 pm on Fri, Nov 23, 2012.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            RR - We'll probably keep it up until you and your like, admit that Obama is a communist/Marxist POS and you are okay with that; or until you admit that you don't know what kind of POS he is and you are okay with that also. In the meantime, Mooseberryinn and our like will keep trying to enlighten you and yours.

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 2:24 pm on Fri, Nov 23, 2012.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1561

            "Comrade Obama's socialism/communism"

            Damn moosedrippinns, do we really have to listen to your same ol' ridiculous diatribe for the next four years? PLEASE try to come up with something (even remotely) different, so you don't bore us to tears anymore!

            "totally incapable of learning anything"

            Add the word "new" to your sentence, pin it to your lapel, then look in the mirror!

             
          • kohana posted at 2:04 pm on Fri, Nov 23, 2012.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            http://ricochet.com/main-feed/Psst!-Wanna-Hear-What-a-Real-Republican-Sounds-Like

            What Romney should have said.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 1:32 pm on Fri, Nov 23, 2012.

            Rob123 Posts: 6569

            kohana posted: "Rob, read something by a Mid East expert."

            Barry Rubin is director of the Global Research in International Affairs (GLORIA) Center

            [wink]

             
          • mooseberryinn posted at 12:55 pm on Fri, Nov 23, 2012.

            mooseberryinn Posts: 2658

            Bronco - I would attempt to explain Comrade Obama's socialism/communism to you but unfortunately you shown yourself to be totally incapable of learning anything. Too Bad.

             
          • kohana posted at 12:02 pm on Fri, Nov 23, 2012.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            Rob, read something by a Mid East expert.

            News Flash: Egypt’s Islamist President Assumes Dictatorial Powers

            Posted: 23 Nov 2012 05:11 AM PST This article is published on PJ Media.

            By Barry Rubin

            The French press agency headline says it all: “Egypt's [President] Morsi assumes sweeping powers, branded new pharaoh.” Mursi has issued a decree giving himself virtually dictatorial powers and contradicting the assumption that he—and his Muslim Brotherhood organization—intend to rule democratically. Opposition forces said this constituted a coup.

            Mursi’s spokesman explained the decree in these terms: the president can issue any decree he wishes to protect the revolution. "The constitutional declarations, decisions and laws issued by the president are final and not subject to appeal."

            It seems apparent this means to proceed toward the fundamental transformation of Egypt into an Islamist, Sharia-ruled state. If one views the 2011 revolution as a democratic one, then Mursi is destroying it. But of course he and the Muslim Brotherhood and the Salafists see it as an Islamist revolution, parallel to the 1979 Iranian revolution though in Egyptian terms, of course. Lest there be any illusions about what this means, note that Mursi is one man whose legitimacy is not established in practice--despite having won an election--and who cannot depend on the country's institutions to obey him. The power behind Mursi is not that he is president but that he has the support of the country's strongest group, the Muslim Brotherhood, and can generally count on the Salafists as well.

            The timing of this takeover is ironic since it coincides with an all-time high for the Obama Administration’s regard for Egypt, following that regime’s brokering of an Israel-Hamas ceasefire, including a continuous insistence from the U.S. government and mass media that the Brotherhood was now moderate and pro-democratic. In a normal universe, a U.S. president would be furious at Egypt for being made to look foolish after lavishing so much praise on Egypt and insistence that the Brotherhood was moderate and democratic. Of course, that will not happen with this administration.

            It is true that Mursi acted “pragmatically” on the ceasefire issue. But what does that mean? He took into account his own regime interests and didn’t just howl, “Alahu Akhbar!” repeatedly. Westerners seem to think that for someone to be a radical Islamist they have to be a wild man. If Usama bin Ladin wore a suit and tie he’d still be alive today.

            But of course Mursi wants to stay in power and strengthen his regime. He’s not going to throw away $10 billion in aid (U.S., EU, IMF) for some wild adventure in the Gaza Strip that Hamas began without asking him. He doesn’t yet control the country or the army. There’s no constitution and no functioning parliament. If the Muslim Brotherhood has proven anything it is that it has patience. According to the New York Times:

            “Mr. Obama told aides he was impressed with the Egyptian leader’s pragmatic confidence. He sensed an engineer’s precision with surprisingly little ideology. Most important, Mr. Obama told aides that he considered Mr. Morsi a straight shooter who delivered on what he promised and did not promise what he could not deliver.“

            The thing that appealed to the president was how practical the conversations were — here’s the state of play, here are the issues we’re concerned about,” said a senior administration official who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss private conversations. “This was somebody focused on solving problems.”

            But the main problem Mursi is focused on is how to keep the Muslim Brotherhood in power, how to get lots of money from the West, and how to make Egypt into a radical Islamist state. Enforcing quiet in the Gaza Strip right now is part of that effort.

            Being the main sponsor of Hamas, a terrorist group, used to be called that state sponsorship of terrorism, now it is to be admired as being, in the New York Times formulation, Hamas’s “most important international ally.”

            Another interesting parallel is that Hamas, like the fellow Brotherhood branch in Egypt, won an election and then seized power completely. Things in Egypt have not yet gone that far but Mursi has taken a big step in that direction.

            At home, it has taken only a few weeks for Mursi to return to dictatorship. The decree comes as secular-minded groups demonstrate in the Tahrir Square area while the Islamists call for suppressing them.

            Mursi’s offensive seeks to give him the power to purge existing institutions and put supporters in control.

            Perhaps the highest priority is to take over the court system by appointing Islamist judges. During the late Mubarak regime, judges were among the most courageous of dissidents, issuing decisions the government doesn’t like. After the revolution, judges gave rulings against the Brotherhood’s goals, for example, saying that the election of parliament—which is three-quarters Islamist—was illegal. Mursi wants to reverse this ruling by decree rather than face new elections where Islamist vote totals will probably plummet. The other key institutions are the armed forces, where top generals have already resigned, and the religious establishment. While the chiefs of Egypt’s religious system, including the powerful mosque-university al-Azhar, are hardly liberal, they are also not systematic Islamists or Brotherhood supporters. Once such people are replaced with loyalists, the Brotherhood will have the power to define Islam itself. Given the international authority of al-Azhar, which trains clerics for many different countries, Sunni Islam from Morocco to Indonesia would be closer to becoming thoroughly in line with revolutionary Islamist, anti-Western, antisemitic thinking. That is not to say it is open, liberal, and tolerant now. But the situation would be far worse and destabilizing. For example, mainstream clerics would issue a stream of rulings justifying terrorism and condemning anyone who cooperated with the West.

            The Egyptian regime’s cooperation on a Gaza ceasefire, then, was in large part intended to defuse any reaction against its movement toward dictatorship at home. It is doubtful, for example, that the Obama Administration will condemn the new decree giving Mursi total power in the country. And Egypt will get almost $10 billion in aid from the United States, European Union, and International Monetary Fund, even as it becomes a repressive, Islamist state.

            Barry Rubin is director of the Global Research in International Affairs (GLORIA) Center and editor of the Middle East Review of International Affairs (MERIA) Journal.


             
          • Bronco posted at 11:59 am on Fri, Nov 23, 2012.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            Rob, these doom-and-gloom prophets remind me of the poor soul who lives (outdoors) somewhere near the beach here. Occasionally I see him sitting in the sand, clothed in a brown robe, watching the tide come in. He stabs a few sticks in the sand to monitor the water rising. As it gets closer to the top stick he yells at everyone, "Run for the hills! See what your sins have brought upon us?" Then he marches away, stiff-legged and mumbling to himself. Completely harmless, but deranged beyond doubt.

            (I have photos of him. He drinks Coca Cola)

             
          • Rob123 posted at 11:44 am on Fri, Nov 23, 2012.

            Rob123 Posts: 6569

            Well, Pete, then I repeat the question: "And what exactly are the reforms he is trying to push through?".

             
          • Pete posted at 11:32 am on Fri, Nov 23, 2012.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Rob123 posted at 9:35 am on Fri, Nov 23, 2012

            "Some could be right out of an Uber-Conservative Republican Wet Dream?"

            I see you've taken a page out of Bill Maher's intellectual playbook and become a progressive provocateur. Watching you and the rest of the regressive left inch closer to the line that separates words/actions and the self-deluded ability to justify such behaviour in the name of political correctness is downright creepy.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 9:35 am on Fri, Nov 23, 2012.

            Rob123 Posts: 6569

            And what exactly are the reforms he is trying to push through? Some could be right out of an Uber-Conservative Republican Wet Dream? And tens of thousands are in the street, protesting.......
            Of course, all you can see is the Muslim Brotherhood and the old Cold War when such antics caused the USSR to send more money. Now, all they have is Uncle Sam. Interesting twist to the plot.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:54 am on Fri, Nov 23, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            Looks like Egypt's "Arab Spring" may be descending into their next dictatorship:

            http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/egypt/9698457/Violence-in-Egypt-after-Morsi-assumes-sweeping-new-powers.html

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:16 am on Fri, Nov 23, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            Rob123 posted at 7:53 pm on Thu, Nov 22, 2012

            Of course, when one moves to the next dot - what message is directed at what audience - we realize that message of jihad is still the core message to its members and its sister groups.

            In other words, what you called "old school" is also the "new school".

            Yawning at the truth isn't going to help you absorb it.


             
          • Rob123 posted at 5:05 am on Fri, Nov 23, 2012.

            Rob123 Posts: 6569

            HTC @ Bronco: It's just waiting for you to retire so you can spend your final years on planet earth paying for your prior decades of ignorance.
            HTC @ Bronco: Your sick and completely unfounded version of our exchange just demonstrates how untethered from reality you really are.

            Yeah, Bronco! Only an untethered Moron would move to a beach in Hawaii and run a small business surrounded by 1/2 naked people enjoying the sunshine and weather! Real men live high up in the Rockies and curse the biting wind as they check their EFT's to make sure the Drone Patent Checks are paid by the very government they fear.
            It all makes sense, now. For awhile, I was confused!

             
          • Rob123 posted at 7:53 pm on Thu, Nov 22, 2012.

            Rob123 Posts: 6569

            HTC: "The Brotherhood sometimes delivers conflicting messages, depending on its audience. There are also ideological and generational divisions within the movement,......."

            Golly Shucks! I bet that's the only place in the whole world that something like that happens! Thank's for the insight. [yawn]

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 7:02 pm on Thu, Nov 22, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            Egypt's top Muslim Brotherhood leader makes clear that the 'new' MB is still the old MB:

            Muslim Brotherhood leader blasts peace efforts with Israel after Morsi helps broker cease-fire
            Published November 22, 2012 | Associated Press

            The top leader of Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood denounced peace efforts with Israel and urged holy war to liberate Palestinian territories on Thursday — one day after the country's president, who hails from the movement, mediated a cease-fire between Israelis and Palestinians to end eight days of fierce fighting.

            "The enemy knows nothing but the language of force," said Mohammed Badie. "Be aware of the game of grand deception with which they depict peace accords," he said in a statement carried on the group's website and emailed to reporters.

            His statement was a sharp deviation from the role played by President Mohammed Morsi in the last week. Egypt's role in brokering the deal has been hailed by U.S. officials.

            The Brotherhood sometimes delivers conflicting messages, depending on its audience. There are also ideological and generational divisions within the movement, with older leaders like Badie often seen as more conservative.

            The Muslim Brotherhood doesn't recognize Israel and — at least officially — its members refuse to hold direct talks with Israeli officials. But Morsi has said that he will abide by the terms of Egypt's 1979 treaty with Israel, and many members say they are in little hurry to enter into armed conflict with the Jewish state.

            Badie declared that "jihad is obligatory" for Muslims. But he also said that taking up arms would be the "last stage," only after Muslims achieved unity. "The use of force and arms while the group is fragmented and disconnected, unorganized, weak in conviction, with faint faith — this will be destined for death."

            In the meantime, he called on Muslims to "back your brothers in Palestine. Supply them with what they need, seek victory for them in all international arenas." Badie's title — General Guide of the Muslim Brotherhood — also implies a leadership role in the Islamist group's sister movements across the world.

            Under the deal, Gaza's ruling Hamas is to stop rocket fire into Israel while Israel is to cease attacks and allow the opening of the strip's long-blockaded borders.

            The mood in Israel over the deal was mixed. Some were grateful that quiet had been restored without a ground operation that could have cost the lives of more soldiers. Others — particularly those in southern Israel hit by rockets over the past 13 years — thought the operation was abandoned too quickly.

            Thousands of Israeli soldiers who had been sent to the border during the fighting withdrew Thursday, the military said.

            Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said the offensive's aims of halting Gaza rocket fire and weakening Hamas were achieved. "I know there are citizens who were expecting a harsher response," he said, adding that Israel is prepared to act if the cease-fire is violated.

            Israeli officials also made it clear that their position had not warmed toward Hamas, which they view as a terror group aligned with their archenemy Iran and pledged to the destruction of the Jewish state.

            "Without a doubt, Israel in the long run won't be able to live with an Iranian proxy on its border," Israeli Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman told Israel's Channel 10. "As long as Hamas continues to incite against Israel and talk about destroying Israel they are not a neighbor that we can suffer in the long run. But everything in its time."

            Israel launched the offensive Nov. 14 to halt renewed rocket fire from Gaza, unleashing some 1,500 airstrikes on Hamas-linked targets, while Hamas and other Gaza militants showered Israel with just as many rockets.

            The eight days of fighting killed 161 Palestinians, including 71 civilians. Six Israelis, two soldiers and four civilians, were killed and dozens others wounded by rockets fired into residential neighborhoods.

            The Hamas-Israel fighting was the first major international test for Morsi, who was caught between either supporting Hamas, one of the Egyptian Brotherhood's sister movements, and Cairo's regional and international commitments.

            In a development that could complicate cooperation on the cease-fire, Israel on Thursday arrested an Arab-Israeli man connected to Hamas and Islamic Jihad on accusations he planted a bomb on a bus in Tel Aviv that wounded 27 people in the hours before the agreement was announced Wednesday, police said.

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 6:24 pm on Thu, Nov 22, 2012.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1561

            Happy Turkey Day to all of you. I appreciate all that Ya'll have taught me over the years! Even you Mr. H.

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 6:21 pm on Thu, Nov 22, 2012.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1561

            "HTC: It's just waiting for you to retire so you can spend your final years on planet earth paying for your prior decades of ignorance."

            How smug, and Self righteous of you.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 6:07 pm on Thu, Nov 22, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            Bronco: You're persistent in saying it's coming, but it never shows up.

            HTC: It's just waiting for you to retire so you can spend your final years on planet earth paying for your prior decades of ignorance.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 6:05 pm on Thu, Nov 22, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            Bronco: What the...? You challenge me about whether or not children are being killed by Israel/Hamas bombs then give me crap about it WHILE you're agreeing with me? Then you rail about which group wins the battle of virtues because you believe EVERYONE should pick a side, and, like kohana, think that neutral means anti-Semetic, anti-Israel, pro-Nazi. Incredible....

            HTC: Your sick and completely unfounded version of our exchange just demonstrates how untethered from reality you really are.

            Hope you had a nice Thanksgiving.....

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 5:59 pm on Thu, Nov 22, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            Many Americans are suffering this Thanksgiving
            By Christian Whiton
            November 22, 2012

            For many Americans, this Thanksgiving will be one where there is a little less for which to be thankful.

            Of course, even in the worst of times, Americans have shown gratitude for what we have. Fewer than one percent of men and women who have ever lived in mankind’s history have enjoyed the freedom and material wealth found today in the USA.

            But this is not much comfort to those who are struggling to remain in the middle class and keep the quality of life they expected. While news stories on Thanksgiving tend to focus on the very poor and very generous, a bigger story is the ranks of middle class Americans for whom life is getting harder.

            The statistics are astonishing. In New York state alone, a recent study found that 55,000 families dropped out of the middle class between 2007 and 2010. A separate national study found that median middle class income has dropped 5% in the last decade—a stark reversal from the gradual increases most middle class Americans used to expect.

            Most telling of all, fewer middle class members think that hard work is the key to getting ahead in life. In other words, they see an America where those who make poor choices are rewarded and those who work hard or innovate are demonized.

            This has to be disheartening for the majority of Americans who, contrary to the self-serving presumptions of the political class, are not out looking for “gifts.”

            Both parties in Washington are effectively ignoring these people—and it shows. Middle class prosperity has always been founded on good jobs—not wealth transfers via government. Rather than establishing policies to help businesses create these jobs, Washington and the media elite are still more focused on blaming America’s economic malaise on a financial crisis that was resolved long ago. Since then, what should have been a strong economic recovery has instead been a sustained period of lethargy—annual growth well below the 3.4% that has been the postwar average.

            On Monday, Federal Reserve chairman Ben Bernanke had to concede publicly that “the pace of recovery has been slower than [Fed officials] and many others had hoped or anticipated,” and “we have some way to go before the labor market can be deemed healthy again.”

            But while everyone in the political class professes concern about economic malaise, they cannot even describe convincingly a path to prosperity for the middle class. Indeed, the biggest problem for many Americans is that their troubles don’t fit into the current agenda of either political party.

            The Obama Democrats have demonstrated consistently that they are more interested in remaking America than economic recovery, as evidenced by prioritizing ObamaCare and financial regulation in the past four years. Those economic measures they did attempt—the stimulus and the bailouts—were exercises in Keynesian economics. This brand of government-spending-centered economics failed repeatedly in history. It was discredited resoundingly by events of the 70s and 80s to the point that even Bill Clinton turned his back on the school of thought.

            But the Obama Democrats are nothing if not loyal to their orthodoxy—effectively blind to different approaches despite the obvious failure of their own.

            For its part, the Beltway GOP is little better. House Speaker John Boehner and his team of country club Republicans have proven inept at explaining and gaining national support for pro-growth economic policies. They can invoke conservatism, but they cannot explain it, nor are they willing to risk much of anything for what they say they believe in.

            Cheered on by Beltway eminences like Bill Kristol, the Boehner group is looking for the minimum amount of window-dressing to cover a cave-in on taxes and spending to the Obama Democrats. Their fear of a real political throw-down with Obama is obvious.

            It seems that middle class Americans who want jobs and growth—and the prosperity they could bring back—are left without a choice or a voice, either on the left or the right.

            This is a shame. Some claim that America has reached a kind of tipping point where we now love the government dole. But a Gallup poll in September found that by a margin of 54-39%, Americans believe government is doing too many things that should be left to business. This is about the same as the poll’s average since 1993. The beliefs and desires of Americans this Thanksgiving are not so different that those of the past.

            But many middle class Americans wish they could go back to having a bit more for which to be thankful—or at least the plausible hope for more for themselves or their children. Rather than criticize them, patronize them, or accuse them of losing their way, the political class ought to explain how their hopes can be realized. That just might make the next Thanksgiving a little more bountiful.


            Christian Whiton was a State Department senior adviser from 2003-09 during the administration George W. Bush administration. He is principal at DC International Advisory

             
          • bill39 posted at 5:12 pm on Thu, Nov 22, 2012.

            bill39 Posts: 1036

            Happy Thanksgiving EVERYONE!

             
          • Bronco posted at 3:44 pm on Thu, Nov 22, 2012.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            Happy Thanksgiving, everyone! [cool]

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 2:10 pm on Thu, Nov 22, 2012.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            Happy Thanksgiving Day........!!!

             
          • jennydoe posted at 12:37 pm on Thu, Nov 22, 2012.

            jennydoe Posts: 2196

            I am thankful that I am totally free to remain out here in left field harvesting all my abundances for a bountiful cornucopia.

             
          • Bronco posted at 12:37 pm on Thu, Nov 22, 2012.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            mooseberryinn: And the liberals are totally free to remain out there in left field harboring all their dreams for utopia. enjoy.
            ------------------------------
            You've been riding this same train for decades. When do you think this end-of-America, liberal-caused doomsday is going to occur? You're persistent in saying it's coming, but it never shows up. I advise you to keep up the doom and gloom theory. Your life, it seems, is meaningless without hate, rancor, and fear. I hope you get an abundance of each; I hope you become fulfilled. Only the best for you, mooseberry.

             
          • Bronco posted at 12:29 pm on Thu, Nov 22, 2012.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            HighTechCowboy posted at 8:00 am
            -----------------
            What the...? You challenge me about whether or not children are being killed by Israel/Hamas bombs then give me crap about it WHILE you're agreeing with me? Then you rail about which group wins the battle of virtues because you believe EVERYONE should pick a side, and, like kohana, think that neutral means anti-Semetic, anti-Israel, pro-Nazi. Incredible....

             
          • mooseberryinn posted at 9:52 am on Thu, Nov 22, 2012.

            mooseberryinn Posts: 2658

            Happy Thanksgiving to all! At least we are still kinda, sorta, mostly free. And the liberals are totally free to remain out there in left field harboring all their dreams for utopia. enjoy.

             
          • Tillie posted at 9:31 am on Thu, Nov 22, 2012.

            Tillie Posts: 69

            Frank has already accepted that the popular vote will probably not go the Republican way from here on out. How about consequently admitting that conservativism has effectively lost in the marketplace of ideas in this country?

             
          • Tillie posted at 9:26 am on Thu, Nov 22, 2012.

            Tillie Posts: 69

            This article contains the usual stupidity we have come to know and love from our local cub reporter. What's his next solution, drilling into the earth and creating a Republican underground colony? Jesus coming back and using his laser sword to vanquish all liberals? Frank Miele's brand of intellectual quackery is the gift that just keeps on giving.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 9:11 am on Thu, Nov 22, 2012.

            Rob123 Posts: 6569

            Gun Camera Video From Iraq
            by GREG on APRIL 6, 2010

            For those of you who might have missed it, there is a lot of discussion about this video published on Wikileaks, apparently acquired from a “whistleblower.” The video is gun camera footage from Apache attack helicopters involved in the killing of two Reuters news employees, photographer Namir Noor-Eldeen and driver Saeed Chmag, in summer 2007.

            The Army carried out an investigation into the civilian casualties that resulted from the events of July 12, 2007, and the final AR 15–6 report with, supporting documentation, some of it redacted, is up at the Central Command web site.

            I agree with Bill Roggio that there is missing footage as no gunships would be cleared hot to shoot anybody carrying a weapon while just cruising around eastern Baghdad. With all of the many different militia hanging out in the city, good and bad, the often out of uniform Iraqi police, thousands of various security guards and just the average citizen carrying around AKs, half that city would have been mowed down.

            From reading the CENTCOM documents, the Apaches, from Bravo Company, 1-227th Aviation Regiment, were supporting a large cordon and search operation and were responding to a troops in contact when they opened fire on the group of Iraqis that included the Reuters reporters. The trouble begins when the pilots saw the cameraman peer around the corner and mistook the camera lens for an RPG.

            Photos recovered from the Reuters photographer’s camera show that he was snapping shots of a Humvee down the street 100 meters away. The time stamp on the photos show that they were the last ones he took before the Apaches opened fire, according to the reports.


            Once that mistake was made the pilots operated as if the Iraqis were insurgents hell bent on attacking friendly ground troops. One pilot said in his testimony he saw insurgents engage the ground unit and thought he saw a flash from an RPG. That’s not apparent from a careful viewing of the video. Ground troops had reported taking small arms fire during the operations and report seeing RPGs among the bodies. The report includes photos from the scene but its difficult to make out an RPG.

            There was apparently an extremely permissive ROE in effect during the operation because the statement from one of the Apache pilots says that after the attack that can be seen on the gun camera footage, the pilots spotted an individual(s) carrying an AK-47 enter a 3-story building. The pilots asked for and received clearance to fire and blasted the building with three Hellfire missiles, one in each floor, destroying the building. The statement says between 8 and 11 bodies were subsequently removed from the building.

            The pilots also had reports from the ground troops that a vehicle, they weren’t sure what kind, was dropping off and picking up fighters in the area. They assumed the van was that vehicle. An unidentified Lt. Col. Who conducted the 15–6 investigation, possibly from JAG, asks the pilot why he shot the van when there were no weapons visible:

            LTC: Did you see anything in the van?

            Pilot: I couldn’t see inside the van, but they ran around right after I had seen them extract weapons and individuals.

            LTC: As you saw on the tape, they didn’t have any weapons. So, what drove you then? What threat made you want to engage the van?

            Pilot: Well the friendlies were 300 meters away and from the initial report that a black car, sedan had been coming in and dropping off insurgents, taking them out, moving them to different locations. That was my whole thought process.

            From reading the pilots statements, they believed the ground element was being shot at by both AKs and RPGs. They say that ground troops did find RPGs among the bodies. This is an interesting bit from the interviews when one of the pilots reflects on what happened:

            LTC: Did you think your knowledge of ROE and the law of armed conflict adequately prepared you for this engagement?

            Pilot: You know, I know we go through ROE a lot, and you’ll be like oh okay, I’m tired of talking about the ROE. I think the heat of the moment is always the one thing that sometimes you might not have control over or you have to actively stop yourself and be like wait, think through it again, you know, and I talked with some of the other guys after the engagement. The situation changes after you’ve done the first engagement or whatever, the situation is totally different. I never thought of it that way. I would have to go through those steps again. Now, what was five minutes ago was not the same.

            The Wikileaks report is mistaken in saying that the children wounded in the van were not evacuated to an American hospital. The report says both wounded children were taken to the trauma center at FOB Loyalty, and later transferred to an Iraqi hospital.

            The part of the video I had trouble with is the dialogue between the Apache pilots, which almost sounds like a caricature it’s so callous. I spent a lot of time around troops in Baghdad in 2005-06 and never heard anything even akin to that. Soldiers wanted to do soldier stuff and kill the enemy, but there was a basic level of respect for human life and the power of the weapons they carried. Trust me, there was a lot of gallows humor and grim photo collections of piles of dead from the civil war, but there wasn’t the absurd blood lust that’s so apparent in the pilot’s conversation.

            Perhaps it was because the ground troops saw the grisly aftermath of death and the second order effects on families up close and personal that they had a different outlook than the pilots that buzzed the city in glass enclosed cockpits. Or perhaps they spent so much time in the homes of the Iraqi people that they saw them as fellow human beings.

            After watching that video, I thought of something the late retired general Wayne Downing once told me. We were standing talking on the tarmac at Baghdad International Airport in early April, days after American troops had seized Baghdad. He asked me what I thought of the whole troop’s performance and the invasion. I told him it was impressive, but that I saw a lot of civilians get killed. “The military is a blunt instrument,” he told me, “the American people need to know that when they decide to use it.”

            Read more: http://defensetech.org/2010/04/06/centcom-releases-report-on-apache-gun-camera-video/#ixzz2Cy6PdUJP
            Defense.org

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:40 am on Thu, Nov 22, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            HAPPY THANKSGIVING, everyone!

             
          • Rob123 posted at 8:37 am on Thu, Nov 22, 2012.

            Rob123 Posts: 6569

            As more information comes out concerning the Verbal agreement for the cease fire, it appears that Israel has agreed to loosen up their blockade of Gaza? Gee, could this be about food, shelter, and basic goods? Of course, some extremists will try to plant big Religious-National Flags/ideologies. But, we'll see. It seems everyone is sick of it, except the macho-armed to the teeth, militants bozos. Of course, that seems to be the case world-wide. Old men selling young men weapons and sick dreams.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:27 am on Thu, Nov 22, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            Rob123: Prove it! I tire of your self-serving propaganda and Spin-Doctor ways.

            HTC: Incredible! You still prefer to assume the worst about some of your fellow veterans while embracing the lies of a convicted hacker and rapist (Julian Asange, WikiLeaks.)

            You'll spend whatever time it takes to watch his edited videos and lying commentary and the time necessary to continue promoting those lies in this forum, but won't take 30 seconds to Google for the CENTCOM report.

            Here's the link to the CENTCOM unclassified file folder:

            http://www2.centcom.mil/sites/foia/rr/CENTCOM%20Regulation%20CCR%2025210/Forms/Cross.aspx?RootFolder=%2Fsites%2Ffoia%2Frr%2FCENTCOM%20Regulation%20CCR%2025210%2FDeath%20of%20Reuters%20Journalists&FolderCTID=0x012000BDB53322B36BD84DA24AF0C8F8BCD011&View={D81EF4CD-B338-42F8-938E-63AEB9E75C71}

            Here's the link to another analysis of those reports and photographs:

            http://defensetech.org/2010/04/06/centcom-releases-report-on-apache-gun-camera-video/

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:04 am on Thu, Nov 22, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879


            We have not seen the last of the war between Hamas and Israel
            Michael Goodwin
            November 21, 2012 | New York Post

            A cartoon image comes to mind. A mother breaks up a fight between two children, one of whom offers this defense: “It started when he hit me back.”

            Remember that mentality when you hear Palestinians call Israel “the aggressor.” Hamas fired hundreds, perhaps 1,000 missiles into Israel from Gaza. They hit schools, apartment buildings, streets and vacant lots. The aim was to kill and, if not to kill, at least to terrorize. Mission accomplished.

            Finally, Israel responded, first by “droning” the Hamas military leader, then by airstrikes against the terror group’s ammunition dumps and rocket launchers, some intentionally placed near mosques and houses.

            So, yes, naturally, the war started when Israel hit back.

            Double standards are par for the course in the Mideast and all the Jew-hating salons from Turtle Bay to Paris. While the hatred is shouted with a clenched fist on the smoldering streets of Gaza City, equally absurd claims are made by striped-pants diplomats and left-leaning sophisticates who insist Israel is guilty of “disproportionate” force because it uses its huge military advantage.

            Their argument moves the goal posts. They tacitly accept Israel’s right to respond, but only up to a point. No matter its losses, the Jewish state must never “escalate” because that would be unfair.

            Think about that: Affirmative action has come to the battlefield, where the results must be level for the sake of fairness. Coming soon, the demand that Israel turn over half of its weapons to its enemies. Perhaps Hamas would like an Iron Dome of its own?

            Meanwhile, Syrian leaders slaughter tens of thousands of their fellow Muslims, but the world turns away. The dead opponents would have been featured by CNN if they had died at the hands of Israel.

            This theater of the ridiculous is not without the potential for unspeakable suffering and global conflict. Hamas’ provocation is part of a larger scheme of Islamists who are growing both in radicalism and power.

            Their aim is to wipe Israel off the map, not to negotiate its borders. Iran is the foremost sponsor, and its fingerprints are literally all over the Gaza conflict, having supplied Hamas with many of the missiles it uses to terrorize Israelis.

            Another sign of rising danger in the changing Mideast is that Egypt and Turkey were asked by the United States to help mediate between Israel and Hamas. That would be the same Egypt now controlled by the Muslim Brotherhood, an ideological parent to Hamas, and Turkey, where the prime minister called Israel “a terrorist nation.”

            Israel won’t trust any half-baked deal that’s offered from those governments, which is why Secretary of State Hillary Clinton announced she would get involved.

            Her presence will prove encouraging only if she really has Israel’s back. The test will be whether she makes it seem that both sides are equally guilty. It won’t help or be relevant if she starts blubbering about the “peace process,” as though Hamas just wants a good deal and is prepared to co-exist with Israel.

            It is not. Israel is fighting for its existence, and Hamas is sworn to never accept that existence. Any concession Israel makes will be pocketed and used against it in the future.

            A cease-fire, which was announced Wednesday, is not peace and can’t last. Having tested Israel and found itself greatly overmatched again, Hamas will withdraw, claim victory and start preparing for the next round.

            In a sense, it is winning. Its militancy is increasingly popular among Palestinians and fits with the growing fundamentalist rage in the region. Now it has been rewarded with the attention of the United States, which is forced to bargain over its demands and grievances.

            All of which guarantees one thing. We have not seen the last of the war between Hamas and Israel.


            Michael Goodwin is a New York Post columnist.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:00 am on Thu, Nov 22, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            Bronco: You obviously don't know the effects of bombing a living, breathing, over-populated city.

            HTC: Really? Of course theres' nothing quite the same as being there, but since photo publication has been with us for over 70 years and has covered countless wars, anyone with eyes and coin for a newspaper could see it clearly. Not pretty and heart-wrenching when you see the faces of those stooped over a dead family member of child.

            Bronco: Funny how some call the killing of children inevitable only after it has occurred.

            HTC: When cowardly scum like Hamas and Islamic Jihad use their neighbors and even international journalists as human shields, such losses are bound to occur. Unlike western military strategy, where we try to take the war away from our neighbors and our families, Hamas and other terrorists use their neighbors and often their own families as human shields, making it extremely clear that they hate Israel more than they love their own families and fellow Palestinians.

            Israel cannot allow such groups to use its virtue against them. While they have always tried as best as weapon technology permits to minimize such collateral loss of life, that's simply not entirely possible much of the time.

            Regardless, Hamas is a scum-sucking terrorist group and the people of Gaza have chosen to embrace them as their political leaders. Elections have consequences.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 3:34 am on Thu, Nov 22, 2012.

            Rob123 Posts: 6569

            HTC: "Believe what you want., but it doesn't change the fact that the photos and much of the text came right out of the CENTCOM report."

            Prove it! I tire of your self-serving propaganda and Spin-Doctor ways.

            The original thread for this little by-line was Kay's naive insistence that there is actually a black & white reality filled with All Good Guys vs Evil. I disagree.
            And when I on occasion meet with or converse with old buddies from my unit in Vietnam, and they have fallen into the 'Human-All to Human' condition of remembering only the good times and going so far as to tell their kids and grandkids only the good stuff, leaving the young ones with a Romantic Notion and maybe an itch to Kill for the State, I usually bring the conversation back down to Earth by mentioning "Remember the night when the Rocket slammed into our 6 hole crapper? And all the cut in 1/2 -55 gallon drums were full, and when the sirens blasted 'All Clear', we stepped out into a really sh-ty existence?". It's a good way to get folks back to 'How it Was', instead of some big dream they make up in order to cope.
            *********************************
            Ram Dass, Love Serve Remember
            If you think you're enlightened, go spend a week with your family.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:47 pm on Wed, Nov 21, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            Rob123 posted at 6:02 pm on Wed, Nov 21, 2012

            Believe what you want., but it doesn't change the fact that the photos and much of the text came right out of the CENTCOM report.

            Nor does your response change the fact that you prefer to believe a convicted computer hacker and rapist than give the benefit of the doubt to your fellow veterans who were there.

            Damn shameful in my book.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 7:08 pm on Wed, Nov 21, 2012.

            Rob123 Posts: 6569

            http://www.upworthy.com/in-case-of-federal-emergency-break-open-a-monty-python-clip?c=ufb1

             
          • kohana posted at 6:10 pm on Wed, Nov 21, 2012.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            Independentthinkermt posted at 5:45 pm on Wed, Nov 21, 2012

            I have no interest in insulting you and no interest in answering an idiot question.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 6:02 pm on Wed, Nov 21, 2012.

            Rob123 Posts: 6569

            HighTechCowboy posted at 4:59 pm on Wed, Nov 21, 2012.

            http://directorblue.blogspot.com

            You want me to believe that this Right Wing pile of drivel is a pentagon recant? You are nuts!
            http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2010/04/cleverly-edited-video-becomes-anti.html

             
          • Independentthinkermt posted at 5:45 pm on Wed, Nov 21, 2012.

            Independentthinkermt Posts: 386

            - HighTechCowboy at 8:51 am on Wednesday, Nov 21, 2012

            Well done on another intelligent answer, Holy Teacher of Conservatism. Is it allowed for Kohana to speak for herself? It was a serious question, after all she took this up instead of lamenting the voter fraud that cost Rommnesia the election. But, if she can't insult me personally, I guess her stand-in will suffice. For one who asks so many questions, why are you, or your side,never willing to answer?

             
          • kohana posted at 5:15 pm on Wed, Nov 21, 2012.

            kohana Posts: 2109


            http://melaniephillips.com/

            So here we go again.

            At 9 pm this evening Israel time, a ceasefire between Israel and the Palestinian terror groups of Gaza came into effect.At 9.34, a rocket fired from Gaza exploded outside the southern Israel town of Shaar Hanegev, causing no injuries. By 10.01, 12 rockets had been fired into Israel.

            The Times of Israel reports:'Military sources indicate that they would not be surprised if rogue terror cells test the ceasefire in its early phases.

            'Well of course. I mean, it's a bit unreasonable, isn't it, expect 'rogue terror cells' to honour a cease-fire - even if they are the very terror cells supposedly party to this agreement? Except that of course we have been here before. On January 18 2009, Israel's operation Cast Lead was halted by a ceasefire agreement between Israel and the Hamas. Two days later, residents of a kibbutz near Gaza ran for cover as an air raid siren sounded; an explosion was heard, but the government denied there had been an attack.

            On January 28 2009, Hamas fired a rocket towards Sderot, followed by another rocket the following day, and then another at Ashkelon. Following that ceasefire in January 2009, it took almost four years and more than 1000 rockets from Gaza for Israel finally to take action when it started Operation Pillar of Defence last week.

            This time, Israelis said to each other, we have to go in and finish the job that was so shamefully left unfinished last time. But now it looks as if history is to repeat itself. Israelis are dismayed; polls suggest that some 70 per cent of them are against this ceasefire. Can it really be that Netanyahu has caved?

            The way this cease-fire was reached sounded alarm bells from the get-go. It was brokered by the US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, with the driving actor apparently being her protégé, the President of Egypt, Mohamed Morsi. But Egypt is hardly a neutral actor in this drama. Morsi owes allegiance to the Muslim Brotherhood -- the parent body of the very Hamas that Israel has been fighting. The Brotherhood is pledged to wage both cultural and military jihad upon the west in order to Islamise it. It is the mortal enemy of both Israel and the west. Yet the Obama administration, along with the UK and France, actually helped put the Brotherhood into power in Egypt by helping get rid of President Mubarak. Under Morsi, Sinai has been allowed to become a real threat to Israel; in the past week, there were reports that Egypt was doing nothing to prevent jihadis from all over the region from going through Sinai into Gaza to join the war against Israel. In addition, Morsi is cosying up to Iran. Indeed, even Obama himself blurted out recently that 'the U.S. would no longer consider the Egyptian government an ally, "but we don't consider them an enemy."

            'Hillary Clinton, moreover, has astoundingly expressed her enthusiasm for the Brotherhood as 'moderates'. There are also claims (which have been denied in a furious row) that her long time adviser Huma Abedin comes from a family with Brotherhood ties; and also that the State Department has been cosying up to the Brothers in a most alarming fashion. In other words, this ceasefire seems to be some kind of nightmarish joke.

            At time of writing, the details are still unclear. The text that has been released is absurdly vague. And Netanyahu's remarks this evening on the cease-fire were also studiously imprecise:

            'In a phone call I had this evening with President Obama, I agreed with him that we should give the cease-fire a chance in order to enable a lull in the situation and allow for the citizens of Israel to return to routine.'

            Well, 'a lull in the situation' hardly sounds like he envisages this cease-fire is going to last very long. Yet he has agreed to it. Why? Maybe a clue lay in this bit of his speech:

            'Under these conditions we are required to navigate this ship, the State of Israel, wisely and responsibly while taking into account all considerations - military and political alike. This is what a responsible government does, and it is what we did here: we made use of our military might while applying political considerations.'

            ...As Prime Minister, I have the responsibility, and it is the highest responsibility, to make the right steps to ensure our security. That is what I have done and it is what I will continue to do.'

            So in deciding how best to ensure the security of Israel he had to take into account political considerations. That may well imply that, for all his professions of solid support for Israel, Obama had placed him in an impossible position. There have been rumours that Obama made the price of his support for a Gaza ground operation acceptance of a Palestine state in much of the West Bank. Whether or not this is so, it is possible that in some way Obama did turn the screws on Netanyahu to force him to accept a clearly unstable and even farcical ceasefire. Maybe in the poker game he is forced to play with Obama, Netanyahu has calculated that the ceasefire won't hold and then he'll be justified in going back into Gaza. Or maybe he just bottled out. Meanwhile, Hamas is celebrating a victory over Israel. It has not been smashed, it retains several thousand rockets - and unless Iran is dealt with, it will continue to receive ever more accurate and deadly missiles which it will be capable of firing at Israel.

            Netanyahu has still left open option of 'severe military action'. We'll know in the next few days and weeks whether this is just another empty threat or not - and whether the 'normal routines' that Netanyahu envisages now returning for Israel's citizens will see them back living in those shelters.

            http://melaniephillips.com/

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 5:05 pm on Wed, Nov 21, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            Bronco: OMG, HTC. "sound economic policies"? The GOP has sound economic policies? Laughable at best.

            HTC: The only thing laughable here is your statement since it comes from someone who doesn't know economics from his azzhole.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 4:59 pm on Wed, Nov 21, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            Rob123 posted at 8:50 am on Wed, Nov 21, 2012

            Here you go, but please try to retain the information this time. The Pentagon thoroughly investigated this incident and immediately discovered that WikiLeaks had edited the video. The reports that the people on the ground were unarmed is complete B.S. The gunship was brought in to support ground troops that had come under fire.

            A good summary of the Pentagon's finding can be found here:

            http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2010/04/cleverly-edited-video-becomes-anti.html

            You know, for a guy who often talks about the "fog of war", you sure were quick to condemn your fellow veterans on the word of a convicted computer hacker and rapist.

            Shame on you.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 4:47 pm on Wed, Nov 21, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            Brazen faking of images reveals Hamas’ desperation
            By Paul Alster
            November 20, 2012

            Haifa, Israel – There is only one thing worse than the image of a child killed by military conflict, and that is the image of a child killed by military conflict having deliberately been placed in the line of fire.

            War is, by definition, a very nasty business, and invariably it is the innocents on all sides who bear a significant cost in lives lost, people maimed and communities traumatized.

            But solid evidence now reveals how Hamas and Islamic Jihad in Gaza have been deliberately placing their civilian population in mortal danger, choreographing a number of seemingly gory scenes, as well as releasing images from other conflicts, such as Iraq and Syria, and passing them off as dead Gazan civilians killed by Israeli missiles.

            In an attempt to persuade the world that Israel is committing war crimes and to distract attention away from the illegal and immoral use of their own population as human shields, Hamas has resorted to staging a number of fake deaths and scenes of severely injured people right in front of international TV crews.

            The BBC recently broadcast a news report showing a man being carried off by four others, seemingly the victim of an Israeli missile strike, only for him to reappear in the same clip a few seconds later wandering around completely unharmed. The same organization’s Jon Donnison yesterday re-tweeted a picture of the dead body of a young girl on a stretcher in Gaza with the headline "Heartbreaking," only for it to transpire that the girl had sadly been killed three weeks earlier in Syria.

            Such is the sometimes chaotic nature of the situation on the ground in Gaza that mistakes can be made, but according to Paul Hirschson, spokesman for Israel’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Hamas has crossed a red line even in the Arab world by promoting the use of images of dead people – children in particular – against the tradition of their religion and the expected respect for the dead.

            Hirschson told FoxNews.com that, “There’s no question that there are civilians being killed and injured on both sides of this conflict, but respect for the dead within the Muslim world is a core principal and what Hamas is doing is in contradiction to the customs and traditions of the local community.

            "As in Judaism, Islam believes in taking the body and burying it at the first opportunity," he said. "Even Al Jazeera is sensitive to this and has blanked out faces as it is an invasion of privacy. This is a cynical abuse of respect and privacy and is not something that is reconcilable with the norms of the community. There are certain moral and ethical codes that we all behave by. In Egypt and Jordan this stuff doesn’t get published. Hamas are going to suffer for it amongst their own.”

            Does the apparent manipulation of pictures, the "photoshopping" of images to suggest scenarios that later prove to be false, suggest a desperation then on the part of the Islamists to persuade the outside world of their opinion, regardless of the truth being told or not told?

            "Hamas is using these pictures in order to deliberately incite Arab public opinion because their leadership is disappointed at the relative lack of public pressure throughout the Arab world on Arab governments to support Hamas,” Hirschson argued. “That could be for a number of reasons, but it could very well be because in Syria, in Egypt, or in Bahrain, for example, they have problems of their own. The other factor is that, yes, we have seen a rise in Islamists in the Arab world, but not everyone there is excited at that prospect. It is significant that there has barely been anything from Gaza’s brothers in the Palestinian Authority. The (West Bank) leadership is nauseated with Hamas.”

            Some argue that Hamas’ manipulation of images is effectively undermining their own case and risking losing public sympathy as viewers and readers cannot be sure if the suffering being displayed is genuine. Those instances of real tragedy and trauma become lost in a fog of spin and manipulation.

            “War has very ugly consequences,” Hirschson continued. “The one thing I don’t want to do is to suggest it is all staged, that there are no injuries, and this is all a bluff. People are being killed on both sides, and sadly sometimes uninvolved people are being killed and hurt. I’m not all that concerned about those who are involved (in terrorism), but the manipulation of images, the faking of images, and the presenting of images from other conflicts as fact on the ground in Gaza, is a cynical ploy on the part of Hamas.”

            On Monday, a number of foreign journalists were injured when a media center in Gaza was hit by an Israeli missile. Hirschson suggests that Islamic Jihad had deliberately positioned their command and control center in the building.

            “Whether or not those international crews knew that Islamic Jihad were there is unclear. But by effectively using the media as human shields, nothing less than a war crime is being committed,” he concluded.

            Paul Alster is an Israel-based broadcast journalist who blogs at www.paulalster.com and can be followed on Twitter @paulalster

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 4:45 pm on Wed, Nov 21, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            who new posted at 2:19 pm on Wed, Nov 21, 2012

            Good post. I'm not sure Israel would have survived her neighbors' desire for her elimination if we hadn't provided them with the funding and weapons we have. Too bad it came with so many strings attached and, in many ways, only weakened her and made her more vulnerable.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 4:39 pm on Wed, Nov 21, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            Rob123: Old school thinking.....You need to get up to speed on who the present day Muslim Brotherhood are, in Egypt.....

            HTC: Ah, so you've totally bought into the new veneer that the MB have put on in order to deceive the West, something the Quran encourages them to do in order to further the cause of Sharia law and Islamic domination of the planet.

            So, you'll just overlook everything else which clearly suggests that they're still the same MB but have learned the importance of western-style marketing; things such as:

            (1) There official creed is: ""Allah is our objective; the Quran is our law, the Prophet is our leader; Jihad is our way; and death for the sake of Allah is the highest of our aspirations." There most popular slogan is: "Islam is the solution."

            (2) It has a 70+ year history of terrorism.

            (3) The MB collaborated with the Nazis during WW II and supported the extermination of the Jews.

            (4) The MB refuse to give equal status to women, Christians and Jews. They have lobbied to restore the tax upon Copts and Jews that the Quran demands be placed upon infidels.

            (5) The MB regard Hamas and its Gaza supporters as 'victims', in spite of their long, ongoing terrorism against Israel. They have repeatedly pressured Morsi to "liberate' Gaza, using Egypt's military if necessary.

            (6) Morsi has vowed to impose Sharia Law upon all of Egypt.

            This a a VERY thin veneer, but apparently thick enough that you can't see through it.

             
          • Bronco posted at 3:37 pm on Wed, Nov 21, 2012.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            kohana: I guess you would agree with all the crap from “The Real News,” because you wanted me to value an opinion from someone who writes for Nazis groups/website/books.
            --------------------
            Wow. Did you even investigate The Real News? No. You see Nazis everywhere.

            The Real News is a member-supported, global online video news network. Launched in 2007 by Paul Jay, the CEO, host and senior editor, The Real News Network describes itself as "focused on providing independent and uncompromising journalism", on "the critical issues of our times".
            The Real News Network uses internet broadcasting, but it has contracts with satellite and cable television channels which it intends to use for broadcast once it reaches its first sustainability goal of 50,000 supporters. The Real News is based in Washington, D.C., with bureaus in Baltimore and Toronto.

            Paul Jay is a journalist and filmmaker who founded and is CEO of The Real News Network. Jay was born and raised in Toronto[1] and holds dual-citizenship with the United States. Jay is the nephew of screenwriter Ted Allan.

            Lia Tarachansky is a Canadian-Israeli video-journalist. She has published in both video and print form for a variety of publications, but primarily produces video reports for The Real News Network. Tarachansky is an example of what is known as a 'solo VJ', a video-journalist who works alone in carrying out all research, interviewing, filming, and editing. Tarachansky's work focuses primarily on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

             
          • kohana posted at 3:20 pm on Wed, Nov 21, 2012.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            http://www.timesofisrael.com/several-casualties-in-explosion-in-central-tel-aviv/

            Live blog: Operation Pillar of Defense, Day 8, Part 2 LATEST: 20 rockets fired on Israel since ceasefire announcement.

            Rocket fire tails off, Israel halts airstrikes, as truce takes fragile hold.

            Netanyahu, Barak and Liberman praise the army and the resilience of the public; Palestinians celebrate in Gaza; earlier, 21 injured in TA bus bombing; a total of 1,506 rockets fired on Israel since the start of Operation Pillar of Defense…

            What was that Rob, about the "root" problem again?

             
          • Rob123 posted at 3:06 pm on Wed, Nov 21, 2012.

            Rob123 Posts: 6569

            kohana posted at 11:30 am on Wed, Nov 21, 2012.

            Old school thinking.....You need to get up to speed on who the present day Muslim Brotherhood are, in Egypt. And why Hamas is a Radical Right wing breakaway from the Brotherhood. Stop with the flaming, and reading flaming rhetoric, and try understanding that the world can change. Some good analysis out there, if you take the time.

            And if this pause is merely a way to restock their missiles, for BOTH SIDES!, well, then nothing has changed. To actually stop the Rockets from getting into Gaza, one would want to bribe the Desert Bedouins who live between Gaza and Egypt and are Smugglers of World Class expertise. Not much moves through the desert or tunnels without their ok, and a certain fee. Everybody knows it. But, like the CIA, they are on their own side only.

            And no where have I put Hamas as the Moral Equivalent of anyone. They suc royally. Can the new and changed PLO stand up to this terrorist gang? The new PLO recognizes Israels right to exist. Would you sit down and break bread with them and talk about stuff?
            And remember, there are many Jewish Folks far, far to the Right of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, and their vote is needed for him to stay in power as a Center-Right politico.

             
          • who new posted at 2:19 pm on Wed, Nov 21, 2012.

            who new Posts: 367

            kohana: “If I were in charge,…”

            Maybe that is part of the problem, Americans thinking they should be ‘in charge’ in the Middle East.

            http://www.freezion.org/erosion-of-sovereignty

            “Money from the United States Erodes Israel’s Political Independence”

            “The money Israel receives from the United States has for decades allowed Washington to infringe on Israel’s sovereignty. Since the early 1970s, successive US administrations have placed heavy pressure on Israel’s leadership to comply with America’s policy agenda for the Middle East – an agenda that often places Israel in positions of weakness vis-à-vis her neighbors.”

            “Using the aid as diplomatic leverage, US officials have succeeded in removing a number of Israeli leaders from office and pressuring others to perpetrate crimes against their people. In recent years, Israeli prime ministers have begun to view themselves not as the heads of an independent state but rather as vassal rulers for a foreign power. Rather than act in the interest of their people, these leaders often seek American approval for major policy decisions, especially those pertaining to diplomacy, trade and national defense.”

            “It has become increasingly clear in recent years that foreign aid is generally used by Washington as a means of controlling developing countries viewed as strategically important to US foreign policy while at the same time funneling most of the money back to American companies (arms, oil, construction, etc.). Once dependent on the money, these countries come under the control of the US government and are bullied into cooperating with Washington’s global agenda.”

            “Israel’s current situation directly contradicts the essence of Zionism, which states that the Jewish people should be responsible and empowered to forge their own national destiny. American aid has arguably been the major factor in eroding Israel’s sovereignty in recent decades and when the flow of money is finally cut, the State of Israel will once again become an independent country capable of securing the Jewish nation’s future.”

             
          • mooseberryinn posted at 2:19 pm on Wed, Nov 21, 2012.

            mooseberryinn Posts: 2658

            Part of the problem for Americans in general and Liberals in particular, is that they don't have any idea of man's inhumanity to man. Every war, every place quickly escalates to murder by any means. In America, it didn't use to be so, there was a "moral compass". There was a sense of "fair play" (not that violence is play), but people seem to have had limits they would not breach in striving for the "ends" they wished to achieve. I don't think this exists any more. "Truth", "honor", "morality" etc. don't seem to be a valued part of our society any more. Or, for the world in general. America and the world now really live the motto of the old USSR - "The ends justify the means". I've never seen this more evident than Comrade Obama's regime, and the "main stream media" that props him and his cohorts up. Sadly, it appears that obama's followers have no sense of shame in their behavior.

             
          • kohana posted at 12:08 pm on Wed, Nov 21, 2012.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            mooseberryinn posted at 11:53 am on Wed, Nov 21, 2012

            I think you are right. I'm about to give up, unfortunately as long as they think Gaza and Israel have the same moral equivalent they spread this evil to others. Maybe they should go visit Gaza and find those barbed wire concentrations camps they think are there and photo them for themselves. A few photos of the slums that are worse than any we have here in the US, and a good explanation for why Gaza spends money on rockets to lob into Israel when Israel isn't attacking them.

             
          • mooseberryinn posted at 11:53 am on Wed, Nov 21, 2012.

            mooseberryinn Posts: 2658

            Kohana - That is an admirable effort to attempt to educate the brainwashed liberals. but, it is futile. I really think they cannot accept anything that does not fit into the format or limits of how their brains have been molded. In short - they are not teachable. Too bad.

             
          • kohana posted at 11:42 am on Wed, Nov 21, 2012.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            Did you read to the end and actually GET this part:

            "In all the copious coverage, there has been no mention whatsoever of truckloads of food and medicines that Israel continues to transfer into Gaza to prevent a humanitarian crisis. Nor has there been coverage of a continued flow of Gaza patients moving in the opposite direction, into Israel, to receive special treatment in Israeli hospitals.

            To put Hamas on the same moral scales as Israel, you also have to brush out all signs of decent Israeli behavior."

            Also what wasn't mentioned in this report, is Israel is still supplying electricity and water. If I were in charge, I would turn off both of those for about 48 hours. If the rockets hadn't stopped by then, try for 96 hours. If that doesn't stop the rockets, turn it off permanently and let them build their own infrastructure. All the countries that donate money to these savages can pay for desalinize plants, and supply oil for a massive generator. Give them something to do besides lobbing rockets at Israel.

             
          • kohana posted at 11:34 am on Wed, Nov 21, 2012.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            MORE:

            November 21, 2012

            The Immorality of Mideast Media Coverage

            Leo Rennert

            A single sentence in a front-page article in the Nov. 21 edition of the Washington Post encapsulates the complete lack of a moral compass in media coverage of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The sentence appears in a piece by reporter Anne Gearan about President Obama's involvement in attempts to reach a cease-fire.

            It reads as follows: "Diplomatic pressure is building for a cease-fire that would end Israeli airstrikes and Hamas rocket attacks, both of which are killing civilians."

            There, in a few words, is displayed the media's equivalence game -- putting Israel and a terrorist organization committed to the destruction of the Jewish state on the same moral, or if you prefer, immoral scales -- ''both are killing civilians." Never mind that Hamas intentionally fires rockets against civilian populations, while the Israeli military goes to great lengths to avoid civilian casualties, even as Hamas rocket launchers use Palestinian civilians as "human shields."

            The distinction of one side making every effort to kill civilians while the other side seeks to spare civilians is completely lost on Gearan and the rest of the mainstream media. In her twisted world view, "both are killing civilians." Such moral media equivalence have a long history. It all started when the Post, the New York Times, the wire services and other elements of mainstream media resolutely refused to describe Hamas and other such groups as terrorist organizations. The "T" word became taboo. Never mind that the United States tags Hamas as a terrorist organization and thus properly and fittingly uses the "T" label -- terrorism after all denotes a deliberate attempt to kill civilians as part of a political agenda. This fits Hamas to a "T" but not to the Post et al.

            To sanitize Hamas and put it on the same moral scales as Israel, the media came up with their own substitute -- "militant." No longer is any pejorative designation attached to Hamas. "Militant" is acceptable in civilized company.

            In reporting the current round of fighting, there are no Palestinian "terrorists" firing rockets at Israeli towns. And Israel never kills any Palestinian "terrorists." Israeli only kills "Palestinians" -- by latest count, more than 130 "Palestinians." No indication of approximately how many of these "Palestinians" were terrorists, or even combatants. They're carefully disguised and lumped together with noncombatants.

            On the other side of the equation, in the coverage of Israeli actions, the key strategy is to pounce selectively on unintended Palestinian civilian casualties resulting from Israeli airstrikes. The result is to depict Israel in uncaring, brutal terms, and the Palestinians as victims of superior firepower. Pejorative hues, carefully erased from Hamas depictions, are shifted over to the Israeli side.

            In pursuit of pro-Palestinian, anti-Israel spins, there is one other aspect that deserves mention. In all the copious coverage, there has been no mention whatsoever of truckloads of food and medicines that Israel continues to transfer into Gaza to prevent a humanitarian crisis. Nor has there been coverage of a continued flow of Gaza patients moving in the opposite direction, into Israel, to receive special treatment in Israeli hospitals.

            To put Hamas on the same moral scales as Israel, you also have to brush out all signs of decent Israeli behavior.

            Leo Rennert is a former White House correspondent and Washington bureau chief of McClatchy Newspapers

            Page Printed from: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2012/11/the_immorality_of_mideast_media_coverage.html at November 21, 2012 - 12:12:06 PM CST

             
          • kohana posted at 11:30 am on Wed, Nov 21, 2012.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            Rob123 posted at 10:43 am on Wed, Nov 21, 2012
            Hope it works, so everyone can think about the Root problem.

            Rob, you and others on this Blog refuse to recognize the root problem. There might possibility be a cease fire for a time. It allows Gaza to restock its rocket supply.

            The Muslim Brotherhood controls Egypt, Gaza is controlled by the Muslim Brotherhood. The Muslim Brotherhood credo is:

            "Allah is our objective; the Qur’an is our law, the Prophet is our leader; Jihad is our way; and death for the sake of Allah is the highest of our aspirations."

            November 21, 2012

            Where's the Outrage (Gaza Atrocity Edition)

            Bill Schanefelt
            Hamas savages execute six "collaborators" and drag the body of one through the streets of Gaza, and the world press is indignant mostly silent.

            Bob Dole cried out about that same press in 1996:

            Bob Dole implored his audiences today to ''rise up'' against the nation's news organizations... Mr. Dole demanded repeatedly in Houston earlier in the day, ''Where is the outrage?''(Emphasis added)

            Searches of the various MSM sites find very few references to -- let alone stories about -- the barbarism of what John Hinderaker calls the "subhuman" Hamas fighters:

            If you took the world's liberal media seriously, you might think that Hamas is a group of human rights activists whose worst sin is protesting against Israel's "occupation." Occupation of what? Not Gaza, obviously. But the truth is that Hamas is a brutal, inhuman terrorist organization-worse, a brutal, inhuman terrorist organization that is supported by many, perhaps most, inhabitants of Gaza.

            To see how subhuman Hamas is, watch this video. It is not for the faint of heart. Earlier today, Hamas terrorists seized six Gaza residents whom they accused of being "spies" for Israel. The accusation was likely false, but we will never know. Be that as it may, the Hamas sadists pulled six men out of a van on a busy Gaza street, forced them to lie down on the street, and shot them dead. The mob of Palestinians that had gathered then stomped and spit on the pile of bodies. The Hamas men tied one of the six bodies to the back of a motorcycle and dragged it through the streets of Gaza City, in a scene reminiscent of The Wild Bunch.

            Go here if you think your stomach can handle it!

            Let us give thanks for Fox, the alternative media, and a few, faint voices that struggle to speak out---and don't miss this New York Post front page -- but don't waste your time trying to find such coverage anywhere else.

            Page Printed from: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2012/11/wheres_the_outrage_gaza_atrocity_edition.html at November 21, 2012 - 12:09:31 PM CST

             
          • Rob123 posted at 10:49 am on Wed, Nov 21, 2012.

            Rob123 Posts: 6569

            HTC: "Remember: Only as long as the government fears its citizens, are we free. Once we are so heavily outmatched that we have cause to fear our government, we are no longer free."

            Duck, Bronco, he's dropping pixie dust on you......

             
          • Rob123 posted at 10:46 am on Wed, Nov 21, 2012.

            Rob123 Posts: 6569

            HTC: "Too lazy to look it up for yourself?"

            Yup! you threw the unsubstantiated 'fact' out there. Now prove it.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 10:43 am on Wed, Nov 21, 2012.

            Rob123 Posts: 6569

            Cease Fire between Hamas and Israel @ 1900 GMT, brought to you by the Egyptian Prime Minister. Hope it works, so everyone can think about the Root problem.

             
          • kohana posted at 10:43 am on Wed, Nov 21, 2012.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            From Melanie Phillips - Nov 20, 2012. Melanie Phillips lives and reports from the United Kingdom.

            http://melaniephillips.com/

            Here's yet more information about the war between Hamas and Israel that unaccountably you may not have come across in today's UK mainstream media. Today's entries are all for the Hall of Shame, which is getting mighty crowded.

            · Channel Four's one-way war - and guess who's the warmonger?

            Jon Snow kicked off Channel Four News last night with the words 'the war on Gaza goes on'. The idea that there was a war by Gaza to which Israel was finally responding in its own defense clearly never occurred to him. For Snow, Israel was of course the aggressor.

            This was followed by a report from Gaza by chief correspondent Alex Thomson, which was all about how the Israelis were killing women and children. After heart-rending footage from the funeral of the children, rockets being fired into Israel were presented as a clearly understandable response instead of what they actually were -- a continuation of the war by Gaza upon Israel, which has been going on for years.

            There was no attempt to put these casualties in further immediate context by pointing out that, given the 1350 Israeli air strikes, the number of dead was actually extraordinarily low - and that most of these had been terrorists bent on murdering as many Israeli women and children as possible. Instead Thomson gravely opined that, although most Israeli strikes were indeed 'very, very accurate', nevertheless the 'key episodes of six days of violence are all too often played out in the blood of innocent women and children'. All too often? With 1350 air strikes and, out of 100 dead Palestinians, (according to Ha'aretz/IDF estimates yesterday) only 30-50 women and children, 'all too often'?

            Read the rest: http://melaniephillips.com/

             
          • Bronco posted at 10:39 am on Wed, Nov 21, 2012.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            OMG, HTC. "sound economic policies"? The GOP has sound economic policies? Laughable at best.

            And what part of prioritizing human rights includes ignoring all the other issues? Grab your ears and pull, pull hard.

            Do you really support the American citizens having a better armed arsenal than the US military? Imagine all the Right Wingers, armed to the teeth. Imagine all the Liberals armed to the teeth.

            HTC: Based upon their prior posts, I would not feel threatened whatsoever were mooseberryinn, JB or kohana to have such weapons
            -----------------------------
            Duh. It's not all about you. All of you are on the same side, anyway.

            SS, Medicare, Medicaid...SS & Medicare don't cover just anyone. They are not full-scale entitlements. They are costly, I agree. Medicaid seems a different animal. But providing health care to children, pregnant women, the elderly, the disabled...that is simply the way we care for our own. Beyond that...let me supply this definition from A Glossary of Political Terms

            "Entitlement program
            The kind of government program that provides individuals with personal financial benefits (or sometimes special government-provided goods or services) to which an indefinite (but usually rather large) number of potential beneficiaries have a legal right (enforceable in court, if necessary) whenever they meet eligibility conditions that are specified by the standing law that authorizes the program. The beneficiaries of entitlement programs are normally individual citizens or residents, but sometimes organizations such as business corporations, local governments, or even political parties may have similar special "entitlements" under certain programs. The most important examples of entitlement programs at the federal level in the United States would include Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, most Veterans' Administration programs, federal employee and military retirement plans, unemployment compensation, food stamps, and agricultural price support programs.'

            Many of these we need to put on the chopping block. I agree with you up to a point, HTC. But here's the rub; the guy you wanted to be president is being shunned by the GOP. Perhaps he was not the best choice. I believe congress is the criminal, both sides of the aisle.

            HTC: So you support ObamaCare's "death panels" which will exist exactly to make those kinds of decisions?
            -----------------------------
            You do. Let me quote you with paraphrasing..."When the economy is in the crapper and a large portion of America is jobless, does (keeping great-grampa alive another three months at the cost of a $50,000 operation) brighten that picture at all?


             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 9:54 am on Wed, Nov 21, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            Rob123 posted at 8:50 am on Wed, Nov 21, 2012.

            Too lazy to look it up for yourself?

            I've posted that information at least twice before. Maybe I should have started putting my responses in a database so that, in the future, when the same progressive B.S. popped up again, I could simply reply "That's #178."

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 9:50 am on Wed, Nov 21, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            Rob123 posted at 4:17 am on Wed, Nov 21, 2012

            The "pile of corpses accumulated over millenniums from the persecutions both perpetrated and endured by all three of the faiths — Christianity, Islam and Judaism —" pales when compared to the pile of corpses racked up by communist, socialist and fascist governments (estimated at overr 80 million.)

            While many progressives rail against religion's 'control' over people, they remain completely blinded to the reality that commmunisim/socialism/fascism represent the same control in spades. One can voluntarily choose not embrace a faith, but when you live in a communist/socialist/fascist state, there is an increasingly steep price to be paid for failure to comply.

            Progressivism is a far greater threat to us today than religion will ever be.

             
          • Bronco posted at 9:45 am on Wed, Nov 21, 2012.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            HTC: HTC: Since you don't trust any of the information in the press, how do you know that anyone's killing children?
            ----------------------
            You obviously don't know the effects of bombing a living, breathing, over-populated city. Funny how some call the killing of children inevitable only after it has occurred.


            The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other basterd die for his. -- General George S. Patton

            Without honor there is no art, only pretenders in a brawl. -- Suro Mike Inay

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 9:43 am on Wed, Nov 21, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            Bronco: I'm not a one-issue voter. I prioritize human rights. Like the right to choose...a partner, to bring an embryo to term.

            HTC: So, you ARE a one-issue voter and your one issue is "human rights", to the point where you completely exclude sound economic policies. When the economy is in the crapper and a large portion of America is jobless, does having the right to gay marriage brighten that picture at all?

            Bronco: Gun control is a state issue. I support the right to keep and bear arms...but within reason. Imagine mooseberryinn with a nuke, or JB with a thousand claymores, or kohana with an F16. No automatic assault rifles. No matter how well one arms oneself, the military will always outgun them.


            HTC: I agree that limited gun control is a state issue but there are significant limits to such controls since the Second Amendment is an individual right and not a privilege subject to regulation at the whim of the state.

            Perhaps you are unaware that the reason the Second Amendment is in the Bill of Rights is precisely to guarantee that the people have the means to resist their government should it no longer be government "of, by and for the people." In U.S. v Miller, the U.S. Supreme Court pointed that out and sent a sawed-of shotgun case back down to the appelate court to determine if such a weapon had a legitimate military application. SCOTUS noted that it was possible that the Second Amendment only protected our right to own weapons of military significance.

            Based upon their prior posts, I would not feel threatened whatsoever were mooseberryinn, JB or kohana to have such weapons (OK, I'll draw the line on nukes.) They are rational people of sound mind who've displayed no threatening behavior towards their neighbors.

            Remember: Only as long as the government fears its citizens, are we free. Once we are so heavily outmatched that we have cause to fear our government, we are no longer free.

            Bronco: I am for social security. I paid my premiums already, I should get the benefits. Medicare and Medicaid? Those should be used judiciously.

            HTC: OK, so you were AGAINST the entitlement state just before you became FOR it once again. It is Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid which represent $100T in unfunded liabilities. It is precisely those programs which threaten to destroy our economy AND our children's futures.

            SCOTUS long ago ruled that you didn't pay 'premiums' into those programs nor were SS and Medicare any kind of contract between you and the government. I'll grant you that the government itself has always portrayed these as a contract you could count on, but that's just one more among thousands of lies we've been told by our government.

            If you wanted your Social Security and Medicare, you should have voted for Romney and Ryan because they were the only candidates with a plan to preserve them and save them from their inevitable collapse due to their massive unfunded liabilities. The Democrats have committed to preserving them in their current form, thus dooming them to collapse during your retirement.

            You've chosen not to sufficiently study finance and economics so as to have a basic mastery of these matters which would allow you to vote intelligently; hence, you voted for gay marriage over a sound retirement. The cost of ignorance can often be far beyond one's ability to pay.

            Besides being financially unsound, SS is a giant ripoff (what one normally gets from government.). Had you invested your payroll taxes in the market, you'd have three times the monthly income you'll get if you wait until your "full benefit" SS retirement age; in fact, you could have retired at 60 or even earlier with that much larger income. Your IRA/401(k) contributions would have been sheltered from income tax, unlike your payroll/self-employment tax, and your retirement benefit wouldn't be subject to reduction because of other income, as is the case with SS.

            Furthermore, when you died, your retirement account could be willed to your family, whereas your SS 'account' will die with you or your wife might get a substantially reduced amount until she dies.

            Had you invested in a basic mastery of economics and finance, you'd already know all this.

            Bronco: If kohana needs a $25,000 heart operation but she's only expected to live another three months...

            HTC: So you support ObamaCare's "death panels" which will exist exactly to make those kinds of decisions?

             
          • kohana posted at 9:27 am on Wed, Nov 21, 2012.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            There are those on this website who PREFER to believe propaganda rather than the facts. The following is an article published in Arab News. It was written by a retired commodore from the Royal Saudi Navy.

            http://www.arabnews.com/arab-spring-and-israeli-enemy

            Arab Spring and the Israeli enemy

            Abdulateef Al Mulhim

            Thirty-nine years ago, on Oct. 6, 1973, the third major war between the Arabs and Israel broke out. The war lasted only 20 days. The two sides were engaged in two other major wars, in 1948 and 1967.

            The 1967 War lasted only six days. But, these three wars were not the only Arab-Israel confrontations. From the period of 1948 and to this day many confrontations have taken place. Some of them were small clashes and many of them were full-scale battles, but there were no major wars apart from the ones mentioned above. The Arab-Israeli conflict is the most complicated conflict the world ever experienced. On the anniversary of the 1973 War between the Arab and the Israelis, many people in the Arab world are beginning to ask many questions about the past, present and the future with regard to the Arab-Israeli conflict.

            The questions now are: What was the real cost of these wars to the Arab world and its people. And the harder question that no Arab national wants to ask is: What was the real cost for not recognizing Israel in 1948 and why didn’t the Arab states spend their assets on education, health care and the infrastructures instead of wars? But, the hardest question that no Arab national wants to hear is whether Israel is the real enemy of the Arab world and the Arab people.

            I decided to write this article after I saw photos and reports about a starving child in Yemen, a burned ancient Aleppo souk in Syria, the under developed Sinai in Egypt, car bombs in Iraq and the destroyed buildings in Libya. The photos and the reports were shown on the Al-Arabiya network, which is the most watched and respected news outlet in the Middle East.

            The common thing among all what I saw is that the destruction and the atrocities are not done by an outside enemy. The starvation, the killings and the destruction in these Arab countries are done by the same hands that are supposed to protect and build the unity of these countries and safeguard the people of these countries. So, the question now is that who is the real enemy of the Arab world?

            The Arab world wasted hundreds of billions of dollars and lost tens of thousands of innocent lives fighting Israel, which they considered is their sworn enemy, an enemy whose existence they never recognized. The Arab world has many enemies and Israel should have been at the bottom of the list. The real enemies of the Arab world are corruption, lack of good education, lack of good health care, lack of freedom, lack of respect for the human lives and finally, the Arab world had many dictators who used the Arab-Israeli conflict to suppress their own people.

            These dictators’ atrocities against their own people are far worse than all the full-scale Arab-Israeli wars.

            In the past, we have talked about why some Israeli soldiers attack and mistreat Palestinians. Also, we saw Israeli planes and tanks attack various Arab countries. But, do these attacks match the current atrocities being committed by some Arab states against their own people.

            In Syria, the atrocities are beyond anybody’s imaginations? And, isn’t the Iraqis are the ones who are destroying their own country? Wasn’t it Tunisia’s dictator who was able to steal 13 billion dollars from the poor Tunisians? And how can a child starve in Yemen if their land is the most fertile land in the world? Why would Iraqi brains leave Iraq in a country that makes 110 billion dollars from oil export? Why do the Lebanese fail to govern one of the tiniest countries in the world? And what made the Arab states start sinking into chaos?

            On May 14, 1948 the state of Israel was declared. And just one day after that, on May 15, 1948 the Arabs declared war on Israel to get back Palestine. The war ended on March 10, 1949. It lasted for nine months, three weeks and two days. The Arabs lost the war and called this war Nakbah (catastrophic war). The Arabs gained nothing and thousands of Palestinians became refugees.

            And on 1967, the Arabs led by Egypt under the rule of Gamal Abdul Nasser, went in war with Israel and lost more Palestinian land and made more Palestinian refugees who are now on the mercy of the countries that host them. The Arabs called this war Naksah (upset).

            The Arabs never admitted defeat in both wars and the Palestinian cause got more complicated. And now, with the never ending Arab Spring, the Arab world has no time for the Palestinians refugees or Palestinian cause, because many Arabs are refugees themselves and under constant attacks from their own forces. Syrians are leaving their own country, not because of the Israeli planes dropping bombs on them. It is the Syrian Air Force which is dropping the bombs. And now, Iraqi Arab Muslims, most intelligent brains, are leaving Iraq for the est. In Yemen, the world’s saddest human tragedy play is being written by the Yemenis. In Egypt, the people in Sinai are forgotten.

            Finally, if many of the Arab states are in such disarray, then what happened to the Arabs’ sworn enemy (Israel)? Israel now has the most advanced research facilities, top universities and advanced infrastructure. Many Arabs don’t know that the life expectancy of the Palestinians living in Israel is far longer than many Arab states and they enjoy far better political and social freedom than many of their Arab brothers. Even the Palestinians living under Israeli occupation in the West Bank and Gaza Strip enjoy more political and social rights than some places in the Arab World. Wasn’t one of the judges who sent a former Israeli president to jail is an Israeli-Palestinian?

            The Arab Spring showed the world that the Palestinians are happier and in better situation than their Arab brothers who fought to liberate them from the Israelis. Now, it is time to stop the hatred and wars and start to create better living conditions for the future Arab generations.

            — This article is exclusive to Arab News.
            almulhimnavy@hotmail.com

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 9:14 am on Wed, Nov 21, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            kohana: “Peace will come to the Middle East when the Arabs love their children more than they hate us,” then Foreign Minister Golda Meir said in 1957, during an address to the National Press Club in Washington, D.C.

            HTC: Rephrased to address our current fiscal crisis:

            "Surpluses and economic bounty will come to the United States when ALL of the American people love their children more than they love their perverted concept of "social justice" and more than they hate success and the rich."

             
          • Rob123 posted at 8:57 am on Wed, Nov 21, 2012.

            Rob123 Posts: 6569

            HighTechCowboy posted at 8:33 am on Wed, Nov 21, 2012.

            I spent 455 days in a war zone....don't lecture me, you little chickenhawk with Intellectual Property Right checks from every Drone flying in the U.S.Arsenal.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:54 am on Wed, Nov 21, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            Bronco: I'm not taking sides here. I don't trust any of the info.

            Bronco: So you [JB] support the killing of children.

            HTC: Since you don't trust any of the information in the press, how do you know that anyone's killing children?

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:51 am on Wed, Nov 21, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            independentthinkermt: Say, Kohana, when exactly, did Israel become our 51st state? And, why does this matter? And, since when?

            HTC: Apparently you're the kind of 'independent thinker' who can't analyze the world beyond their back yard.

            I could go to great lengths to try to explain it to you, but I doubt you'd get it anyway.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 8:50 am on Wed, Nov 21, 2012.

            Rob123 Posts: 6569

            HTC: "First of all, that video was debunked long ago."

            By whom? You will have to document that for us, if you can.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:33 am on Wed, Nov 21, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            Rob123: If it was only that simple.......

            HTC: Your incredible moral-equivalency crap is becoming nauseating. First of all, that video was debunked long ago. Wiki-Leaks had edited it to completely misconstrue the real situation.

            Secondly, even if it had gone down as their edited version tries to suggest, to insist that mistaking civilians for terrorists is evenly remotely equivalent to intentionally targeting what are known to be innocent women and children goes beyond the pale.

            My gawd, man, wake up!

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:26 am on Wed, Nov 21, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            MfgMan: ...and what is at the very least sold as an alarmist immigration policy...

            HTC: So, wanting to actually secure our borders and control legal immigration so that the people with the skills and assets we need are readily admitted while people with a fourth grade education are not, coupled with hard objections to giving the children of illegals all kinds of benefits which our native born children do not get - that is "alarmist"?

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:21 am on Wed, Nov 21, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            kohana: Rather than simply annexing the above territories — which were not only legitimate spoils of war, but historically Jewish since time immemorial — Israel made what would turn out to be a serious mistake. It administered, protected and funded them, in the hope that the Arab population residing in them would come to terms with their Jewish neighbors, eventually reaching an agreement that would be satisfactory to all concerned.

            HTC: We have no way of knowing how much of Israel's policies in the past were actually forced upon them by the U.S. which has constantly used its aid to Israel and Israel's dependency on the U.S. for military equipment and parts to tie Israel's hands. Even now, as they're preparing for a ground assault and Obama is publicly declaring Israel's right to defend herself, leaks within the administration are suggesting that the message being sent to Israel via diplomatic back channels is "Don't do it or we'll terminate our aid to your country and delay the delivery of military equipment and parts, leaving you to bread down in the Gaza and die there."

            The Israelis know that we're the last friend they have left in the West and that our continued support is questionable. That's why they've developed so many new military systems of their own.

            It sickens me to see western society chose the barbaric Arabs over the civilized Israelis. We have become a culture which is too stupid to live.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 8:10 am on Wed, Nov 21, 2012.

            Rob123 Posts: 6569

            HighTechCowboy posted at 8:01 am on Wed, Nov 21, 2012.

            Have you been to Gaza? Google Earth It.......

             
          • Rob123 posted at 8:02 am on Wed, Nov 21, 2012.

            Rob123 Posts: 6569

            McCain Backs Away From Benghazi Conspiracies
            By Hamed Aleaziz on Nov 20, 2012 at 5:49 pm
            Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) today issued a statement essentially conceding that he was wrong in accusing the White House of changing U.N. Ambassador Susan Rice’s talking points on Benghazi for political purposes.
            Good Morning ye olde Right Wing Conspiracy wackos! Your mission, should you accept it, is to grab your right ears with your left hands, and your left ears with your right hands, and pull your heads out of your collective azzs.

            McCain Backs Away From Benghazi Conspiracies
            By Hamed Aleaziz on Nov 20, 2012 at 5:49 pm

            Former CIA Director David Petraeus told lawmakers last week that the CIA’s assessment that al Qaeda was responsible for the Sept. 11 attack that killed four Americans in Benghazi was taken out of Rice’s talking points after an interagency review. McCain and his allies then claimed the White House took out the talking points because it supposedly undercut the Obama administration’s narrative that it had severely weakened al Qaeda.
            But Intelligence officials told CNN yesterday that the intelligence community was responsible for the changes made to Rice’s talking points. The Director of National Intelligence spokesperson said that the White House did not make any “substantive changes.”

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:01 am on Wed, Nov 21, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            Rob123: What about the other 90% crowded into a slum surrounded by fences and a blockade?

            HTC: That would be mostly propaganda. Have you ever been to the Gaza? Much of it looked like Lebanon before their civil war; very nice, but now Hamas has been forcing Israel to gradually reduce it to rubble. And don't forget that these idiots elected Hamas to lead their government.

            When you lie down with dogs, you get fleas - or dead.

            Rob123: Behind the rockets and horror, there IS a root cause.

            HTC: Indeed there is: unimaginable hatred for Jews. The PLO has long made it clear, as have the majority of the Palestinians, that no solution is acceptable to them which includes the continued existence of the state of Israel.

            Sun Tzu's "The Art of War" teaches us that, unless you really KNOW your enemy, you are doomed to be defeated by him. We in the West seem determined to become the greatest confirming example of the folly of such ignorance as we continue to insist that most Palestinians want peaceful coexistence with Israel and that Islam is really a religion of peace.

             
          • kohana posted at 6:55 am on Wed, Nov 21, 2012.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            Bronco posted at 12:10 am on Wed, Nov 21, 2012
            If kohana needs a $25,000 heart operation but she's only expected to live another three months...

            Actually it's my beautiful, intelligent daughter who needs the surgery, and her paternal grandmother lived to be 101 years old, still with a clear mind. So another 50 years for her would be good. I do have a cousin who had heart surgery at age 76, and she will be 98 in March, still volunteers at her local nursing home, takes daily walks, gives her family great joy.
            Wonder if ACA would have approved her surgery at the time.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 4:17 am on Wed, Nov 21, 2012.

            Rob123 Posts: 6569

            Book review: 'Jerusalem' by Simon Sebag Montefiore
            In 'Jerusalem,' Simon Sebag Montefiore evenhandedly details the city's turbulent history.

            "Simon Sebag Montefiore's epic survey of Jerusalem's sanguinary history does not inspire confidence in the civilizing qualities of religion. The pile of corpses accumulated over millenniums from the persecutions both perpetrated and endured by all three of the faiths — Christianity, Islam and Judaism — that have contended for Jerusalem would surely be high enough to reach the celestial home of any one of them. Not that politicians come off any better than believers here. Anyone frustrated by the intractable stalemate in the contemporary Middle East peace process may take grim comfort from the knowledge that Jerusalem has been a flash point for global warfare since the time of the Egyptian pharaohs: "the desire and prize of empires," as Montefiore puts it, "yet of no strategic value."
            "the desire and prize of empires," as Montefiore puts it, "yet of no strategic value."
            "the desire and prize of empires," as Montefiore puts it, "yet of no strategic value."
            "the desire and prize of empires," as Montefiore puts it, "yet of no strategic value."
            "the desire and prize of empires," as Montefiore puts it, "yet of no strategic value."
            "the desire and prize of empires," as Montefiore puts it, "yet of no strategic value."

             
          • Independentthinkermt posted at 1:55 am on Wed, Nov 21, 2012.

            Independentthinkermt Posts: 386

            Say, Kohana, when exactly, did Israel become our 51st state? And, why does this matter? And, since when?

             
          • Bronco posted at 12:13 am on Wed, Nov 21, 2012.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            Bronco posted at 10:58 am on Tue, Nov 20, 2012.
            JBSTONE: It's confirmed.............you're an IDIOT.
            -------------------------------------
            So you support the killing of children. Awesome. Why am I not surprised?

             
          • Bronco posted at 12:10 am on Wed, Nov 21, 2012.

            Bronco Posts: 4328


            HTC: I could totally support that. You do realize that, if such a law/amendment existed, it would mean the end of the entitlement state. Are you actually OK with that?
            --------------------
            Yes. Always have been. I'm not a one-issue voter. I prioritize human rights. Like the right to choose...a partner, to bring an embryo to term. Gun control is a state issue. I support the right to keep and bear arms...but within reason. Imagine mooseberryinn with a nuke, or JB with a thousand claymores, or kohana with an F16. No automatic assault rifles. No matter how well one arms oneself, the military will always outgun them.
            I am for social security. I paid my premiums already, I should get the benefits. Medicare and Medicaid? Those should be used judiciously. If kohana needs a $25,000 heart operation but she's only expected to live another three months...

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 10:13 pm on Tue, Nov 20, 2012.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            Bronco posted at 10:58 am on Tue, Nov 20, 2012.

            It's confirmed.............you're an IDIOT.

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 9:56 pm on Tue, Nov 20, 2012.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            Frank's simple solution could be a wonderful and profitable windfall for local tourism sales and the local economy if one-way travel planning services for local swinger republicans desiring emigration to other swing states to procreate and overpopulate were offered. The last best place could be a cornfield in the swing state of Iowa. Build the lie and they will come. It may take a lot of viagra though.

             
          • Rick Spencer posted at 7:26 pm on Tue, Nov 20, 2012.

            Rick Spencer Posts: 405

            I see a lot of discussion about the present Middle East situation so I thought that if you would like to read the history of it you might like Jerusalem: A Biography. I just finished it and here is the note I sent around to my reading buddies. RLS

            I just finished Jerusalem by Montefiore and it is an amazing read, every page, from beginning to end. I rate it with Grant, Atcheson, and Rumsfeld (even though they are auto biographies) telling a story without prejudice, rancor, or personal aggrandizement. And, if you want to refresh your memories about the present day incursions go to the final chapter first.

            As an aside, while still on active duty I was called in the middle of the night along with about 20 other crew members to report immediately to Base Ops for a mission that would be detailed while in the air during the deadhead flight to our destination. I believe it was about 1964 and it was to Wheelus Air Base that was located on the Mediterranean coast, just east of Tripoli, Libya. We were tasked to carry supplies to Israel as war was rumored. It did not materialize, but the 10 or so days we spent there were very enjoyable as the beachfront was terrific.

            Interestingly, I was led to Jerusalem through the reading of the Gabriel Allon Series by Daniel Silva and the acknowledgements accompanying his latest spy thriller that had Jerusalem as the core of the story. Enjoy! Rick

            http://www.amazon.com/dp/0307266516/?tag=googhydr-20&hvadid=20149332955&hvpos=1t1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=20901796671933587953&hvpone=21.59&hvptwo=&hvqmt=e&ref=pd_sl_4i2hjjcy0c_e

            Read the comments by other readers on the site.

             
          • kohana posted at 6:25 pm on Tue, Nov 20, 2012.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            kohana posted at 3:15 pm on Tue, Nov 20, 2012
            A follow up on the above post.

            http://ricochet.com/main-feed/Crowdsourcing-the-Yoo-Administration

            Crowd Sourcing the Yoo Adminstration
            John Yoo

            Thanks for all who've weighed in on my hypothetical candidacy for Mayor of Oakland. I love the "a vote for me is a vote for Yoo" slogan. And I've got a great symbol for the campaign: Vote 4 U.

            Now that all the hard work is done, and the leftover campaign funds from American Crossroads have poured into my personal checking account, let's crowdsource a platform.

            Which cities in America are best governed? What are the best conservative policies that have worked to turn around an American city? Giuliani's fight to reduce crime by deploying beat officers and concentrating on high crime locations comes first to mind. Any others?

            Also, while we're agenda-setting, I'll name my cabinet in advance -- which I think candidates should do. Oakland city government will be like the Kennedy's Camelot, where the best and brightest will flock to serve their nation:

            Minister of Truth (formerly known as press secretary): Peter Robinson

            Minister of Defense (formerly police commissioner): Victor Davis Hanson

            Minister of Creative Destruction (formerly head of business licensing and inspection): Rob Long

            Head of Water Board (res ipsa): James Lileks

            Any other ideas for nominations?

             
          • kohana posted at 6:03 pm on Tue, Nov 20, 2012.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            Israel Hatred at the Huffington Post

            Posted By Arnold Ahlert On November 20, 2012 @ 12:45 am In Daily Mailer, FrontPage

            In recent months, the Huffington Post entered the world of video news with its debut of “HuffPost Live.” One might suspect that it was little more than a video version of the leftist website founded seven years ago by Arianna Huffington. Yet a blog known as HuffWatch has been documenting the content at both websites and has discovered a grim, though unsurprising reality: both Huffington Post and HuffPost Live are repositories of anti-Semitic and anti-Israel vitriol. Leading the charge at HuffPost Live is host/producer Ahmed Shihab-Eldin.

            Shihab-Eldin’s bio asserts he has Palestinian heritage and is a former producer and co-host for Al-Jazeera, a well-known disseminator of anti-Israel propaganda. Al-Jazeera demonstrated its commitment to journalistic integrity most poignantly in July 2008, when it held a birthday celebration for Samir Kuntar, a released Lebanese terrorist who killed a 28-year-old Israeli father in front of his 4-year-old daughter and then crushed the daughter’s skull with his rifle butt.

            A cursory look at Shihab-Eldin’s latest blog entry reveals exactly where he stands. Titled “Terrorizing Gaza: Will Egypt Intervene?” it is a compendium of anti-Israel bias, one that completely omits the reason for the current hostilities: since 2009, Hamas has bombarded Israel with more than 11,000 rockets and mortars.

            Instead, Shihab-Eldin makes the argument that Israel’s “disproportionate response” to such regular bombardment is the equivalent of terrorism. “In the media and political realm, the word ‘terror’ is often cited by Israel and the US to justify Israel’s disproportionate and brutal use of force on Gaza,” he writes. “This happened in 2009, and is happening again today. Israel frames everything through the context of defense against terrorism.”

            He goes on. “But many view Israel’s occupation, psychological warfare, aerial and naval bombardment of Gaza as terror.” Who exactly? “Iran’s Foreign Ministry described Israel’s strikes on Gaza as ‘organized terrorism.’ Qatar’s Foreign Ministry called Israel’s attacks a ‘filthy crime that ‘must not pass without a punishment.’”

            He also refers to Gaza as the “Occupied Gaza Strip,” a blatant lie. In 2005, Israel turned over the Gaza Strip to the Palestinians, uprooting thousands of Jewish settlers in the process. Left to their own devices, the Palestinians initiated a civil war between Hamas and Fatah in 2007, with Hamas gaining control of Gaza. Yet not only does Shihab-Eldin refuse to accept that reality, the Huffington Post allows him to reiterate his lie, despite his hosting of a broadcast with Deputy Speaker of the Israeli Knesset Danny Danon in September, who informed him of historical reality.

            Another part of the piece is dedicated to a video report by Emily L. Hauser, an American-Israeli writer. Ms. Hauser makes the faux-intellectual argument, popular among the international community, that Hamas’s purposeful attempts to slaughter Israeli civilians and Israel’s attempt to defend itself are morally equivalent. However, ”[t]he big difference is the enormity of the power imbalance,” she contends. “When you have one side locked in to one of the most densely populated strips of land on planet Earth, and you are bringing to bear tanks and battleships and jet fighters in a constant rain of ordnance versus people who can fire, from within that tiny space, rockets out…that comparison is simply entirely out of whack.”

            Another “reporter” Shihab-Eldin cites is Mohammed Omer, who dispatches updates from inside the Gaza Strip and conveys the “humanitarian crisis” Israel is inflicting on the area. In reality, Omer is a pro-Islamist propagandist who blogs at Electronic Intifada, a website that refers to Israel’s 1948 creation as Al Nakba (Arabic for “The Catastrophe”).

            HuffWatch’s lead blogger, writing under the pseudonym Huff Watcher, has catalogued the evolution of anti-Israel and anti-Semitic bias at HuffPost since at least 2010. A previous report presented three years of documentation revealing that “HuffPost consistently ‘frames’ news stories in such a way that incites anti-Israel perceptions and hatred. Further, in violation of its own policies, it approves and tolerates user comments submitted in response to these stories that contain incendiary, hate-filled libels against Israelis and Jews, as well as links to anti-Semitic hate websites.”

            Huff Watcher further illuminates the hypocrisy of the site’s “zero tolerance” policy regarding hate speech, documenting virulently anti-Semitic user comments that were approved by a human moderator. An example: “They [Jews] all need to be rounded up and gassed,” offers “markoze,” in December of 2008.

            Perhaps one can rationalize that user comments are not indicative of a website’s bias. Yet here is Shihab-Eldin’s Twitter page, which consistently demonstrates overt prejudice against Israel: “By ignoring the fundamental fact that #Israel Occupies #Gaza, we are starting from a flagrantly false premise,” he tweets in one example. “Americans are being consistent by supporting attack on Gaza – grounded in same premise as US aggression,” he tweets in another. “List of Israeli Violations Against the #Gaza Strip ((January 1st to November 17th, 2012),” reads a third.

            Algemeiner editor David Efune recounts his own appearance on HuffPost Live, describing his role in a discussion about Iran as the “token opposing voice to join as an ambush prop.” When other guests argued that a strike on Iran’s nuclear facilities was a non-starter and that Prime Minister Netanyahu was a warmongering barbarian, Efune countered with the reality that 7 million Israeli lives might be at risk if Iran goes nuclear. Shihab-Eldin once again revealed his bias. “I have to retort to (sic) what David said, which is misrepresenting and misleading people on the real threat in the region…he says there is a threat from Iran to Israel even though Iran currently doesn’t have weapons and Israel does….let’s try and put ourselves in (Iran’s) shoes, they see themselves in a region where the US has invaded Afghanistan, has invaded Iraq, two of their neighbors, Israel has a nuclear weapon, so if there is a threat to anyone, they are the ones who feel threatened,” he contended.

            Efune cuts right through the nonsense. “How the Huffington Post gets away with placing someone who vocally campaigns for this morally corrupt position in a role of senior responsibility, is simply beyond me,” he writes.

            In an email obtained yesterday by FrontPage, Huff Watcher offers a possible answer to that question. “With the election of President Obama, since early 2009 HuffPost’s ‘journalists’ began being welcomed all over Capitol Hill, and enjoy direct, preferred access to the White House. It now boasts a blogging stable including many top figures of the Democrat Party, and governments around the world,” he writes. “Less well-known is that as of early 2011, nearly 10,000 unique visitors a day arrived from the three largest incubators of Islamist terror: Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Egypt, presumably in part because, as even Abe Foxman (a HuffPost blogger) noted, the comments that HuffPost publishes in response to his articles are ‘dripping’ with anti-Semitism.”

            He then cuts to the heart of the matter. “If Hamas were going to try to buy this kind of PR from the world’s #1 most-read online ‘newspaper,’ it would cost a fortune. Instead, HuffPost is doing it for free — and with U.S. tax dollars.”

            That last fact is attributable to the reality that Cadillac is a founding sponsor of HuffPost Live. Since Cadillac is part of General Motors, which is still alive courtesy of a taxpayer-funded bailout, We the People are underwriting the anti-Israel bias that has found a home at the Huffington Post. When will Cadillac and the Huffington Post be held accountable for the malicious misinformation and anti-Israel bias they countenance?

             
          • Rob123 posted at 5:30 pm on Tue, Nov 20, 2012.

            Rob123 Posts: 6569

            kahona" "In any war between the civilized man and the savage, support the civilized man"
            Pamela Geller
            If it was only that simple.......

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6OTb5xeFHU

             
          • MfgMan posted at 5:20 pm on Tue, Nov 20, 2012.

            MfgMan Posts: 345

            Frank, I have a simpler idea for the GOP...about 40 - 45% of voters call themselves Independents. You can count on Dem's and Repub's voting along party lines, so the party that swings the most independents will win. And a surprising number of Independents are very alarmed by the far right's stance on things like a womens choice, gay marriage, and what is at the very least sold as an alarmist immigration policy. In short, the GOP needs to jettison their extremist stance on these topics. And heck, they might want to actually try and stop spending money just like the democrats! Sure, Obama took things to a whole new level, but one certainly can't look back on the Bush era without seeing how deficit spending grew.

             
          • kohana posted at 4:56 pm on Tue, Nov 20, 2012.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            http://www.theblaze.com/stories/spy-spy-hamas-publicly-executes-six-suspected-collaborators-with-israel-graphic-photos/

            Graphic photos

            #Savages Six Israeli 'collaborators' executed before baying Muslim mob in Gaza City
            http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/

            The world sympathizes with these savages as a manifestation of its moral decay, inability to distinguish good from evil and its relentless and insufferable Jew-hatred.

            "In any war between the civilized man and the savage, support the civilized man"
            Pamela Geller

             
          • Rob123 posted at 4:53 pm on Tue, Nov 20, 2012.

            Rob123 Posts: 6569

            It's sick! However, all prisoners were released from all prisons in Gaza at the start of the rocket campaign, and these 6 were convicted and waiting for their Death Sentence. Still sick, but not as you would have us believe.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 4:37 pm on Tue, Nov 20, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            These are the "good guys" according to the braindead progressive community:

            Hamas kills six suspected of aiding Israel, drags body through streets
            Published November 20, 2012 | Associated Press

            http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/11/20/hamas-kills-six-suspected-aiding-israel-drags-body-through-streets/

             
          • Rob123 posted at 4:36 pm on Tue, Nov 20, 2012.

            Rob123 Posts: 6569

            HighTechCowboy posted at 3:41 pm on Tue, Nov 20, 2012.

            No argument there, concerning Hamas. However, they are but one WELL Armed group within Gaza who call themselves Palestinian. What about the other 90% crowded into a slum surrounded by fences and a blockade? Behind the rockets and horror, there IS a root cause. Killing a bunch, and then they shut up for a few years, is getting kind of old? I know, it really gets your Chickenhawk feathers excited, but sooner or later, a little reality should enter the picture?

             
          • kohana posted at 4:32 pm on Tue, Nov 20, 2012.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            http://www.israelhayom.com/site/newsletter_opinion.php?id=2901

            Gaza proves Golda right
            By Ruth Blum

            “Peace will come to the Middle East when the Arabs love their children more than they hate us,” then Foreign Minister Golda Meir said in 1957, during an address to the National Press Club in Washington, D.C.

            Meir, one of the signatories of Israel’s Declaration of Independence in 1948, made her pronouncement long before the Six-Day War, when Israel was nearly annihilated by a host of Arab armies, emerging victorious by the skin of its teeth and the grace of God. This was the war that resulted in the unification of Jerusalem under Israeli sovereignty, and the repossession of Judea and Samaria (the West Bank), and the Gaza Strip.

            Rather than simply annexing the above territories — which were not only legitimate spoils of war, but historically Jewish since time immemorial — Israel made what would turn out to be a serious mistake. It administered, protected and funded them, in the hope that the Arab population residing in them would come to terms with their Jewish neighbors, eventually reaching an agreement that would be satisfactory to all concerned.

            This fact has been obfuscated to the point of eradication since those days. Indeed, the Arab world knew a good thing when it saw one. This “good thing” took the form of a particularly effective propaganda campaign aimed at Western liberal sensibilities on the one hand and at Arab vulnerability on the other.

            Creating an entity called “the Palestinians” — those Arabs who had lived in east Jerusalem, the West Bank, and Gaza before the war and those born after 1967 — enabled them to play David to Israel’s Goliath. It was a brilliant maneuver, since up until that point there was little doubt that Israel was a tiny country surrounded by much larger Arab states bent on its destruction. Once “the Palestinians” were created, this reality became forgotten, certainly in the international arena, but even by many Israelis.

            The idea that the only real obstacle to peace in the Middle East was the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians not only took hold across the globe; it also came to shape Israeli foreign policy, including that of right-wing governments.

            It is thus that there have been repeated U.S.-backed Israeli initiatives to make peace with the Palestinians. Each of these initiatives has been based on the assumption that Israel must relinquish land in exchange for Palestinian promises of peace. Each has ended in war.
            Given the stated aims of the Palestine Liberation Organization and Hamas — the former ruling over the West Bank and the latter over Gaza — it is no wonder that Israel’s attempts have failed abysmally. Basing policy on false premises is never a good idea. Repeating such an error again and again is psychotic, suicidal, or both.

            Nobody is more aware of this than the Arabs themselves. And the more they can milk it for all it’s worth, the better for them.

            But don’t take my word for it. The perpetrators of Israel’s current war against the terrorist infrastructure in Gaza always articulate it so precisely. This week is no exception.

            For days, Hamas has been broadcasting battle-cry video clips on its Al-Aqsa TV station, produced especially for Operation Pillar of Defense. The purpose of these segments, jointly devised by Hamas and its military wing, the Al-Qassam Brigades, is twofold: to rally the residents of Gaza around the regime and to threaten Israel into submission.

            One such segment includes the following warning to the Israel Defense Forces: "The price will be high, sons of Zion ... Oh occupier, we are coming toward you. Leave our land. All of Palestine is ours. There is nothing here for you but death. There is nothing here for you but to be killed and to leave … In the land that you came to alive, you will end as body parts. That is Allah's promise."

            This is but one of many and varied examples — translated by Palestinian Media Watch over the years — of how the Palestinians actually view their conflict with Israel. It has nothing to do with the 1967 borders. Nor does it have to do with “occupation”; Israel withdrew completely from the Gaza Strip in 2005. Neither is it rooted in poor peace planning. It is an assertion of a religious imperative that Israel must be destroyed.

            Another clip, part public-service announcement and part horror-film promo, has a narrator calling out menacingly to the IDF, "From the Al-Qassam Brigades to the Zionist soldiers: The Al-Qassam Brigades love death more than you love life.”

            This goes to show that Golda Meir was only partly right. Peace won’t come to the Middle East when the Arabs love their children more than they hate Israel, but rather when they stop loving death, period.

            She was completely on the mark, however, when she said that Israelis might be able one day “to forgive the Arabs for killing our sons, but it will be harder for us to forgive them for having forced us to kill theirs.”

            Ruthie Blum is the author of “To Hell in a Handbasket: Carter, Obama, and the Arab Spring" (RVP Press).

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 3:43 pm on Tue, Nov 20, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            Bronco posted at 3:12 pm on Tue, Nov 20, 2012

            I could totally support that. You do realize that, if such a law/amendment existed, it would mean the end of the entitlement state. Are you actually OK with that?

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 3:41 pm on Tue, Nov 20, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            Rob123: If the numbers game interests you, in a cold hearted freakish way, Israeli strikes into Gaza exceed 1300, while 5 Israeli have died and 120+ Palestinians, which includes 40 children.

            HTC: Certainly shows what knuckledraggers Hamas and their supporters are; of course, you failed to mention the fact that the cowardly Hamas uses the citizens of Gaza as a human shield and that some of their dud rockets have killed and injured citizens of Gaza. There is nothing morally defensible in any way about what Hamas is doing.

            "I want you to remember that no ba$tard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb ba$tard die for his country." -- George S. Patton

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 3:31 pm on Tue, Nov 20, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            Rob123: And I have heard nothing from you concerning Egypt's role in trying to get Hamas to recognize a "quiet period'?

            HTC: Even as Egypt sent its Foreign Minister to Gaza in a show of support for the terrorists. How convincing.

            Rob123: Of course, they realize they can't do Socialized Medicine and Huge Military Purchases.

            HTC: If you actually knew anything about Israel, you'd know that they don't have "socialized medicine."

             
          • kohana posted at 3:31 pm on Tue, Nov 20, 2012.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            http://spectator.org/archives/2012/11/20/a-world-full-of-troubles

            By Quin Hillyer on 11.20.12

            The bad guys make gains around the globe.

            We're in a heap of trouble.
            I write this while sitting in Colorado, on break from a superb seminar on defense and foreign policy sponsored by the Heritage Foundation and the El Pomar Foundation. The seminar is remarkably free of political finger-pointing and direct criticism -- or even mention -- of the Obama administration. Most of the material is descriptive and neutrally analytical, rather than politically prescriptive and hypercritical. But the picture being painted of a growingly dangerous world makes any sentient person question the administration's performance in getting us into such a fix.

            Our defense forces are being precipitously and unwisely hollowed out. Our capabilities in intelligence and diplomacy are inadequate. Our policies in several regions of the world are conducive not to American strength and peace, but to weakness and instability.

            Take Syria. Patrick Clawson, director of research for the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, said it is "a mess and it's going to get worse." It's awful already, and if Assad the dictator falls, "it will get even worse than it is. And it is unlikely that trouble in Syria will stay in Syria. It's going to be hard to stop this process from escalating."

            The problem is that our intelligence agencies still don't know who's who among Assad's opposition, or really what their capabilities are either. And the administration did not do enough, early enough, to figure out which opposition leaders were potentially constructive, and which were the dangerous Islamists. Amazingly, said Clawson, his institute has a better idea of who's who than the CIA does. One reason: The CIA frowns on using social media such as YouTube. But just by watching YouTube, analysts can see hundreds upon hundreds of videos of actual action on the ground -- what the weapons are, who the people are, that sort of thing.

            Tom Donnelly, director of the Center for Security Studies at the American Enterprise Institute, was no more encouraging. "The entire Levant region is in a period of greater instability than it has been for a long, long time," he said. "It's almost as if the administration's approach is to 'let it burn.' What we see is a multiplying of the number of potential conflicts, and there is a huge opportunity for instability and violence."

            The problems aren't just in the Middle East. Steven Bucci, Heritage's Senior Research Fellow for Defense and Homeland Security, a longtime Army Special Forces officer, and a former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense, put it plainly: "The world is not safer today than it was a few years ago." Russia is "resurgent." China, Iran, North Korea, and terrorists all cause major problems. And organized crime's worldwide reach is "nearing capabilities of some nation states." Meanwhile, cyber-threats are growing and growing, and "most of our leaders just don't get it."

            In another eye-opening presentation, José Cardenas of VisiónAméricas, former chief of staff for the Assistant Secretary of State, outlined a list of challenges in the Western Hemisphere, led by the toxic designs of Venezuela's Hugo Chavez. The radically leftist anti-U.S. stances of Chavez are not news, of course, but the degree and nature of his alliance with Iran and Iranian-backed Hezbollah terrorists are surely not enough known and appreciated -- or feared.

            "Chavez is the fulcrum for Iran in the Western Hemisphere," Cardenas said. Venezuela already has laundered $30 billion for Iran; 70 Iranian companies operate "suspicious" facilities in Venezuela; Venezuela sends weapons to Hezbollah and refined fuel to Iran and Syria; and Venezuela had provided thousands of false passports to Iranians and other Middle Easterners, while Margarita Island serves as the principal safe haven for Hezbollah in the Americas. The U.S. Treasury Department has identified Venezuela as a haven for and sponsor of drug kingpins as well. But, said Cardenas, the United States has "no comprehensive policy" for dealing with Venezuela or Latin America as a whole.

            Ecuador also is a problem. Its president, Rafael Correa, is "auditioning for the role" of Chavez for when the latter dies. Correa suppresses the independent media, runs roughshod over his nation's constitution, has expelled the U.S. Drug Enforcement Agency, and has completely lifted all visa requirements, resulting in a proliferation of transnational criminal organizations operating there. In short, drug trafficking is up in Ecuador, counter-terrorism down.

            And I haven't even touched on what is being done to hollow out the U.S. military, even if "sequestration" does not take an even worse bite from the Pentagon budget. Plus, I'm only halfway through the seminar.

            This is not to say that all is doom and gloom: I also haven't touched on some of the opportunities (there are only a few) also highlighted by various panelists at this conference. But those opportunities are dwarfed by the dangers.

            None of this is to say that all the difficulties can be blamed on Barack Obama. Clearly, the world would be a perilous place no matter what policies he had pursued. Nonetheless, while none of the panelists have said as much, almost no evidence suggests that Obama is doing anything other than worsening the situation. We're in for a rocky four years.

            Thank goodness we are the United States of America: We've survived bad presidents before, and we will again. In the interim, though, Obama seems to be putting to severe test the purported Otto von Bismarck remark that "God watches over children, fools, and the United States of America." When it is the fool who is leading the USA, God is required to do double duty.

            http://spectator.org/archives/2012/11/20/a-world-full-of-troubles

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 3:27 pm on Tue, Nov 20, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            Thoughts for the day:

            "When you have a flat tire, you change it. You don't drive around on it for four years to see if it gets better."

            "Statism: Ideas so good they have to be mandatory."

            And finally, the face of Obama's supporters talking about the "fiscal cliff":

            http://www.mrctv.org/videos/what-fiscal-cliff

             
          • kohana posted at 3:15 pm on Tue, Nov 20, 2012.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            http://ricochet.com/main-feed/My-Mayoral-Platform#comments

            My Mayoral Platform
            John Yoo

            As you may have heard on last week's Ricochet podcast from the National Review cruise, there's a campaign afoot to draft me into running for mayor of Oakland. As I said at the time, if nominated, I will not run. If elected, I will not serve. If I receive campaign funds, I promise 100 percent embezzlement.

            Despite those pledges, Troy has still asked me to present my platform for your consideration. It needs only three planks:

            1. Triple the size of the police force, including a mayor who is required to pack his own heat.

            2. Tuition vouchers for all schoolchildren in Oakland, and setting all public schools free to compete for them or close.

            3. Cutting property and business taxes by 50 percent and requiring all paperwork for new businesses to be reduced to a one-page form. All other programs will be cut in line with tax revenues until the city's budget is stabilized and crime is reduced.

            Read the comments.

            http://ricochet.com/main-feed/My-Mayoral-Platform#comments

             
          • Bronco posted at 3:12 pm on Tue, Nov 20, 2012.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            Warren Buffet quote:

            "I could end the deficit in 5 minutes," he told CNBC. "You just
            pass a law that says that anytime there is a deficit of more
            than 3% of GDP, all sitting members of Congress are ineligible
            for re-election."


             
          • Bronco posted at 3:07 pm on Tue, Nov 20, 2012.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            HTC, keep up the personal attacks on me. I love it!
            Ya know, for all the Righteousness you have, and the seemingly only guy with all the Right answers, and all the self-professed love of YOUR country, and all the lamenting about your getting-dumber-by-the-generation grandchildren's future, you sure don't act much outside of ranting and putting people down in this Right Wing chat room.

            And you have followers and worshipers! Keep up the good work; 4 million more converts and your presidential election prediction might be accurate in four years. Or just move to Ohio with Frank and JB.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 2:59 pm on Tue, Nov 20, 2012.

            Rob123 Posts: 6569

            HighTechCowboy posted at 2:21 pm on Tue, Nov 20, 2012.

            So, National Review is seen by you as Progressive? Interesting, in an OMG! sort of way.
            *************************************************************************************************
            HighTechCowboy posted at 2:25 pm on Tue, Nov 20, 2012.
            If the numbers game interests you, in a cold hearted freakish way, Israeli strikes into Gaza exceed 1300, while 5 Israeli have died and 120+ Palestinians, which includes 40 children.

             
          • kohana posted at 2:55 pm on Tue, Nov 20, 2012.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            Have any of you left leaning progressives ever stopped to think, Israel has numerous factions just like the USA has, and they don't all agree with each other. Really, look at the number of wars that have occurred in history between the different sects of Christianity.

            However, there would be no need to defend themselves if Hamas didn't keep lobbing rockets at them. They have been at it since the Jews gave them, outright, Gaza in 2005. And Rob, I am not full of hatred, which you have claimed more than once, I am filled with sorrow, grief, and fear for my family and friends.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 2:25 pm on Tue, Nov 20, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            kohana: I guess that 1000s of less costly Iran supplied missiles and rockets of the Gazans vs. the 100s of the more accurate missiles of the Jews, and the iron dome to keep the Iran missiles out, don't equate?

            HTC: Welcome to the progressive age, kohana, where everything imaginable has been turned on its head.

            Remember when we used to call someone who brought a knife to a gunfight an idiot? Now, thanks to the cerebral rewiring of progressives, we call them "victims."

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 2:21 pm on Tue, Nov 20, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            Rob123 posted at 12:11 pm on Tue, Nov 20, 2012

            Enjoying your progressive swill du jour?

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 2:19 pm on Tue, Nov 20, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            Rob123: The 333MM Fadjr-5 has a range of 75KM......Gaza to Jerusalem is 78KM...........And like the 122MM, is unguided......although Iran has some with guidance for Shore to Ship use.

            HTC: Sources within the IDF, having examined wreckage from some of the Fajr-5 rockets, are now saying that these are enhanced versions of the Fajr-5 which Hezbollah also possesses and calls the Khaibar-1. They have a 100kg warhead instead of the 90kg of the earlier version, and a range of approximately 90km, instead of the typical 75km.

            As for their lacking guidance systems, who cares? When your goal is terror coupled with the random slaughter of innocents and you can now reach sprawling, heavily populated urban centers, guidance systems are irrelevant.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 2:06 pm on Tue, Nov 20, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            Bronco: Gee, I'm afraid to post anything about Israel/Hamas here.

            HTC: Why? Being repeatedly beaten about the head and shoulders with the facts in response to your previous posts on subjects such as economics and science has never stopped you; so, what are you afraid of now?

            You seem to actually enjoy the role of the fool.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 2:02 pm on Tue, Nov 20, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            Bronco: Oh, so the only people who are politicizing Benghazi are...(surprise!!) the Republicans!!!

            HTC: Gawd, you really are the king of idiots! Trying to cover up the lack of adequate security in Benghazi and the absence of support once under attack, while delaying the 'investigation' until AFTER the election and repeatedly lying about the attack, insisting that it was 'spontaneous' and LONG after they knew it was a planned terrorist attack, and ALL for the sake of covering their asses and winning reelection - THAT, my king of fools, is the ULTIMATE in politicizing the incident and 4 peoples deaths and for the crassest of reasons!

            You don't have a broken moral compass - you have none at all!

             
          • Rob123 posted at 1:36 pm on Tue, Nov 20, 2012.

            Rob123 Posts: 6569

            kohana posted at 12:50 pm on Tue, Nov 20, 2012.

            If you would read something besides Right Wing crap, you would see that the same question was and is being asked by Israelis in Israel. However, I merely pointed the cost out, no value judgement.......The neighborhood is filled with some very good people surrounded by nuts, on both sides of the issue. And I have heard nothing from you concerning Egypt's role in trying to get Hamas to recognize a "quiet period'? Imagine that! You're hatred runs deep. Even the democratically elected Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt knows it needs our reduced $450,000,000.00 a year, plus forgiveness on some loans from the Commerce Department. Thirty plus years of buying peace seems to be working, in Egypt? Of course, we have $850,000,000.00 into the Israeli Iron Dome. Of course, they realize they can't do Socialized Medicine and Huge Military Purchases. Thank G_d for Uncle Sam, eh?

             
          • Bronco posted at 1:05 pm on Tue, Nov 20, 2012.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            kohana: I guess you would agree with all the crap from “The Real News,” because you wanted me to value an opinion from someone who writes for Nazis groups/website/books.
            --------------------
            What a waste of brain-power that would be. Can't you read? "Real News said" does not in any way mean that I support or agree with Real News. Perhaps the clue was when I said, " I'm not taking sides here. I don't trust any of the info." Both sides kill children. You support one side; I do not support either.
            What a true follower of the Great HTC's leaps of perception you have become. His 'Post it and you support it!' mantra gets kinda stale.

             
          • kohana posted at 12:50 pm on Tue, Nov 20, 2012.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            Rob123 posted at 12:34 pm on Tue, Nov 20, 2012

            Yes Rob. You complain bitterly about how much it cost the American "taxpayer" to supply Israel with the means to defend herself, to survive. I guess that 1000s of less costly Iran supplied missiles and rockets of the Gazans vs. the 100s of the more accurate missiles of the Jews, and the iron dome to keep the Iran missiles out, don't equate? Every time Israel comes up on this blog, you remark on the amount the taxpayers spend towards her defense. However, you never toss in how much we give all the other ME countries as well. It seems your only concern is a negative one regarding Israel.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 12:34 pm on Tue, Nov 20, 2012.

            Rob123 Posts: 6569

            kohana posted at 12:22 pm on Tue, Nov 20, 2012.

            Well, that was extremely nasty. Would you mind telling me what I might have said to raise your dander? Or are you merely spreading your new found Republican-Right wings?

             
          • kohana posted at 12:27 pm on Tue, Nov 20, 2012.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            Bronco: The Real News said it all started when a twelve-year-old Palestinian boy was shot by Israeli soldiers.

            I guess you would agree with all the crap from “The Real News,” because you wanted me to value an opinion from someone who writes for Nazis groups/website/books. Try looking up the part where CNN, BBC, and other news sources admitted photos of children killed by "Israelis" were actually taken in Syria. Try looking up the part where Hamas rockets misfire and land in Gaza killing their own civilians, including their children.

             
          • kohana posted at 12:22 pm on Tue, Nov 20, 2012.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            Rob123 posted at 11:32 am on Tue, Nov 20, 2012

            Tell ya Rob123, we should just advise Israel to sit back and let Hamas fulfill it's stated and publicized goal of eradicating Israel off the face of the earth. That should make you happy, no more war in Israel, no more American money to Israel, no more innovations by Israel, right? By the way, most of the cancer treatment drugs have been developed by Israeli doctors, one of them being my distant cousin. But maybe Hamas will get him in the first hit to Jerusalem.

            But then you still have the the USA giving billions of $$ to Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Syria, Lebanon to support their military, more than was ever given to Israel, but I guess that is okay because they are not Jews.

            In the meantime, the Islamist, via the Muslim Brotherhood are about to destroy the Pyramids. But that's okay, no big deal.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 12:11 pm on Tue, Nov 20, 2012.

            Rob123 Posts: 6569

            http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/333713/nasty-gop-jim-geraghty

            NOVEMBER 20, 2012 4:00 A.M.
            The Nasty GOP?
            For some conservatives, the labels “nasty” and “mean” are well earned.
            By Jim Geraghty

            "So why are Republicans so much less popular than their ideas? A ubiquitous accusation from their Democratic rivals, echoed by an allied media, is that Republicans lack empathy to the point of displaying sheer meanness. "

             
          • Rob123 posted at 12:02 pm on Tue, Nov 20, 2012.

            Rob123 Posts: 6569

            HTC: "(2) Hamas has upped the ante by firing 333mm Fadjr-5 rockets (made by Iran) Iwhich can reach larger urban areas such as Tel Aviv and Jerusalem....."

            The 333MM Fadjr-5 has a range of 75KM......Gaza to Jerusalem is 78KM...........And like the 122MM, is unguided......although Iran has some with guidance for Shore to Ship use.
            **************************************************

             
          • Rob123 posted at 11:32 am on Tue, Nov 20, 2012.

            Rob123 Posts: 6569

            HTC: "(1) The IDF states that the cost of each Iron Dome missile is $40K, not $100K. For a first-generation system from Israel's own developers, it has done an impressive job. As volumes go up, thanks to the Hamas attacks, costs will come down."

            My $100,000.00 number came from Fox News? Upon looking it up, the missile per se has a cost of USD$35,000.00 to $50,000.00 each. Then their is the launch vehicle and the radar and R&D, etc.. I don't think 'as a package', $100,000.00 per missile is that far off

            The 122MM Rockets have a cost of $800.00 each. Having been in beaucoup 122MM Rocket Attacks, they are wildly inaccurate.......which if you are caught out in the open, knowing they are targeting a juicy target a couple miles away, the Random Probability of getting hit is as great as the juicy target. Pure Chaos theory. Once in a Bunker, the heat and humidity and B.O. of those in the Bunker with you becomes prominent, as you wait for the all clear siren. Boring.

            Oh, and the Iron Dome is almost all American Money courtesy of Hillary and Obama, as Congress tries to get the Israeli's to share the technology. So far, not much luck.

             
          • Bronco posted at 11:11 am on Tue, Nov 20, 2012.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2012/11/19/official-changes-to-benghazi-talking-points-made-by-intel-community/?hpt=hp_t2


            Oh, so the only people who are politicizing Benghazi are...(surprise!!) the Republicans!!!

             
          • Bronco posted at 10:58 am on Tue, Nov 20, 2012.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            Gee, I'm afraid to post anything about Israel/Hamas here. I should ask kohana for all the Right News sources. The Real News said it all started when a twelve-year-old Palestinian boy was shot by Israeli soldiers.
            But Israel can do no wrong, I am led to believe...by the pressure of people who support Israel no matter what you hear. I'm not taking sides here. I don't trust any of the info.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 10:05 am on Tue, Nov 20, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            Rob123 posted at 9:23 am on Tue, Nov 20, 2012

            A couple of corrections to your post:

            (1) The IDF states that the cost of each Iron Dome missile is $40K, not $100K. For a first-generation system from Israel's own developers, it has done an impressive job. As volumes go up, thanks to the Hamas attacks, costs will come down.

            (2) Hamas has upped the ante by firing 333mm Fadjr-5 rockets (made by Iran) Iwhich can reach larger urban areas such as Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. The warhead on this rocket is over 4 times more powerful than the 122mm rockets (Grad (Iran) and WS-1E (China)) they've long used to pepper southern and mostly rural Israel. It also has nearly 4 times the range of the Grad and nearly twice the range of the WS-1E.

            If the U.S. were experiencing such attacks from Hamas or anyone else, the vast majority of Americans would be demanding a scorched-earth response.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 9:23 am on Tue, Nov 20, 2012.

            Rob123 Posts: 6569

            A question, Moose: Every time Israel fires a $100,000.00 anti-missile at an incoming $10,000.00 1970ish 120MM Rocket, who pays for the Israeli Anti-Missile? Republicans, or Democrats? Over 400 fired so far, knocking down 320+/- incoming Rockets. That is one heck of a Radar designed by Israel, and paid by US taxpayers......actually, paid for during the Obama Administration.
            Spin that, I need a gloomy chuckle.

             
          • mooseberryinn posted at 8:49 am on Tue, Nov 20, 2012.

            mooseberryinn Posts: 2658

            In general: The American "public" (the average obamaton) - doesn't have a clue just what is going on. The "average Obamaton" - probably doesn't bother with news, editorials, commentary, and most likely doesn't realize the damage Comrade Obama has done. For the most part, they are members of the "oblivious for Obama" voting block. Several commentors here fit the type. Unfortunately, we are all paying the price for Comrade/Clown obama already.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:36 am on Tue, Nov 20, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            America roundly rejects Obama's trickle down government:

            American people, not lawmakers, really understand our fiscal mess
            By Douglas E. Schoen
            November 19, 2012

            The 2012 election did not provide a clear mandate for either party, and certainly not for President Obama. The election itself reflected the polarization of the last four years and offered little in the way of direction about what the American people would like to see done. Rather, this election was more about tactics and campaign techniques than it was about messaging or any sort of vision for the future.

            But it would be a profound mistake to assume that consensus doesn’t exist in the electorate towards how to address our increasingly serious fiscal problems. A clear majority of the American people know we are in a serious crisis and a just-completed survey shows a broad consensus for a set of free market, pro-growth policies that can bridge the gap between an intractable president and an equally obstinate Republican Party in the House.

            The just completed survey shows that over three quarters of the American people would support a compromise that lowers tax rates, reduces deductions as well as promoting pro-growth fiscal policies – all the while reigning in spending and entitlements. In short, the electorate has clearly agreed on a path forward. If only the politicians would listen.

            It is frankly somewhat jarring to hear Republicans and Democrats both suddenly focusing on the budget and sequestration now that the election campaign is over. The events of the first week of the post-election period support the notion that the people themselves are well ahead of the politicians in reaching consensus on a solution.

            A mere 2 days after both sides pledged to work together to reduce the debt and deficit, Republican and Democratic leaders were back to their original position with President Obama saying it is essential to raise taxes on the wealthiest Americans and House Speaker John Boehner, just as adamant over the weekend in his rejection of any tax increases.

            The polarization and division that is now evident in Washington is reflected in the results of the first major national survey of public opinion on fiscal issues taken after last Tuesday’s election. The results reveal an arguably even more dissatisfied electorate than we saw before the election. But equally, if not more importantly, the results highlight an electorate that sees a clear path forward.

            Both parties are now viewed extremely negatively – 58 percent view the Republicans in Congress unfavorably and 56 percent say the same about the Democrats. And both parties receive almost equal blame for the country’s economic deterioration – a testament to the deep dissatisfaction the electorate feels towards politicians from both side of the aisle.

            Indeed, there is huge concern that the political class in Washington has not provided any meaningful approach to addressing our mounting fiscal challenges. Sixty-one percent of the electorate disapproves of how President Obama and the Democrats in Congress have handled the issues surrounding the fiscal cliff and 58 percent gave a similar response about the Republicans. It’s axiomatic that neither party has given an increasingly skeptical public any reason to be confident in their ability to deal with our impending fiscal challenges, and certainly no reason to have confidence in their ability to deal with long-term issues relating to the debt and deficit.

            The results of my survey of 600 randomly selected Americans suggests that the American people are far more aware of the gravity of the fiscal situation than either party has acknowledged.

            An overwhelmingly majority of the electorate favors a bipartisan compromise that would have as its end result stimulating economic growth and creating jobs. An extraordinary 88 percent endorsed a bipartisan agreement that would put all possibilities on the table including tax and entitlement reform with the goal of generating a pro-growth, free market economic system that creates new jobs.

            The Bowles-Simpson framework is a clear starting point for negotiation. After receiving widespread public support from the business community just before the election, it is my belief that Bowles-Simpson can, and arguably should, form the basis for both a short term and long term approach to our fiscal challenges.

            Indeed, the president could do worse than to appoint Erskine Bowles and Alan Simpson, the two chairmen of the Bowles-Simpson Commission, to head a special White House initiative to find compromise before sequestration automatically kicks in – which would result in over a trillion in cuts to the budget on January 1st.

            Indeed, there is widespread skepticism that either party has an approach that can save us from the worst ravages of the fiscal crisis.

            In the wake of the election, a full 70 percent now agree that we need a new party dedicated to compromise, conciliation, fiscal discipline and economic growth that draws on the best ideas from both sides. Needless to say, these numbers reflect as much dissatisfaction with the existing order as they do for the desire for a new party. Still, these figures should be a warning sign to both sides and, especially, to a Republican party that enjoys a favorability rating of only 30 percent with the American people.

            Fortunately, the path forward is clear. Tax reform that reduces rates and limits deductions will, in the electorate’s mind, stimulate the economy and job growth as well as providing a way to address both President Obama’s desire for greater revenue from the wealthy and Speaker Boehner’s desire to lower tax rates. To be sure, tough decisions would have to be made about which deductions to limit, but the idea of means testing the home mortgage deduction and charitable deductions is an immediate possibility for consideration.

            Unless an initiative of this type is put forward there will be less support for the political parties and their Congressional wings. Even if the two parties remain intact, Gallup has shown a steady increase in independent identification with now over 40 percent of the electorate describing themselves as not affiliated with either the Democrats or Republicans.

            Politicians of both parties have to change. There must be recognition that the implementation of an economic framework that grows a stagnant economy, stimulates growth and begins the process of reforming entitlements and reducing spending is a necessity. It is what the American people are now demanding and there is little time to waste.

            Douglas E. Schoen has served as a pollster for President Bill Clinton and is currently working with New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg. He has more than 30 years experience as a pollster and political consultant. He is also a Fox News contributor and co-host of "Fox News Insiders" Sundays on Fox News Channel and Mondays at 10:30 am ET on FoxNews.com Live. He is the author of ten books including,“Hopelessly Divided: The New Crisis in American Politics and What it Means for 2012 and Beyond” (Rowman and Littlefield 2012). Follow Doug on Twitter @DouglasESchoen.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:22 am on Tue, Nov 20, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            Oh, those sneaky Democrats:

            November 19, 2012

            House Republicans are investigating allegations that EPA Administrator Lisa Jackson and other high-ranking agency officials have been conducting official business with email aliases or secret accounts to avoid scrutiny from agency watchdogs and the public.

            The House Science, Space and Technology Committee is leading the investigation and has asked Jackson to turn over information connected to the email account “Richard Windsor” – one of the alleged alias accounts.

            The committee has sent letters to White House lawyers and the EPA inspector general asking them to investigate the allegations and report on their findings by the end of the month.

            The Daily Caller reported first that Jackson was using an email alias, based on research by Competitive Enterprise Institute fellow Christopher Horner.

            He says the agency’s use of secret email accounts dates back to the Clinton administration and then-Administrator Carol Browner.

            “You remember Ms. Browner, the lady who suddenly ordered her computer hard drive reformatted and backup tapes erased, hours after a federal court issued a ‘preserve’ order … that her lawyers at the Clinton Justice Department insisted they hadn’t yet told her about?” Horner said in the Daily Caller story.

            Horner and the institute filed a lawsuit in September claiming EPA employees are using the private Gmail-type accounts to send official emails.

            The House committee says federal law requires agencies to preserve all internal records associated with official activities and prohibits the use of private email accounts for government business, unless there are procedures in place to track and store such messages.

            An EPA spokesman said Monday the agency has for roughly a decade assigned internal and public email addresses to administrators and that they use the internal one to communicate with staff because of the massive amount of traffic on the public accounts.

            The spokesman also said both accounts are reviewed and made available when a Freedom of Information Act request is made.

            The committee also said the email allegations follow “similarly secretive and highly questionable methods of communication by senior officials at science agencies within the White House, Commerce Department and Energy Department.”

            http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/11/19/house-investigates-epa-emails-agency-says-administrators-have-two-accounts/#ixzz2CmD5scSv

             
          • Rob123 posted at 7:50 am on Tue, Nov 20, 2012.

            Rob123 Posts: 6569

            Moose: Could you screw it down a little bit tighter, please. You are giving me way too much room.

             
          • mooseberryinn posted at 7:45 am on Tue, Nov 20, 2012.

            mooseberryinn Posts: 2658

            Rob - are you trying to imply that you accept the media's slant on Isreal? or the Regime's explanation for the Benghazi murders? Are you trying to imply you have a positive opinion of Comrade Obama and his communist regime?
            Not that I really care, but did you have anything intelligent to say?

             
          • Rob123 posted at 7:13 am on Tue, Nov 20, 2012.

            Rob123 Posts: 6569

            Well, Moose, it appears your constant drum beat to explain Liberty totally in the Negative has it's roots in Biology. Plus, you're in good company!

            http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-sci-apes-midlife-crisis-20121120,0,5623506.story

            "Great apes have midlife crises too, study finds"
            A study of 336 chimpanzees and 172 orangutans suggests that midlife crises might be driven by biological factors.

             
          • mooseberryinn posted at 6:12 am on Tue, Nov 20, 2012.

            mooseberryinn Posts: 2658

            Must be the season for flapping and clucking to distract from the truth. 1. Hamas has instigated the "war" in the mideast, just as they have been doing for years. Say, if Cuba were to be launching rockets into Florida, chances are Cuba would suffer a few air strikes to put a stop to that bad behavior. 2. - Benghazi - it appears either gross incompetence or willfull decision to sacrifice Americans was made. Either way, it shows the Obama festival of clowns is not a regime to be proud of. 2008 election was a poorly thought out experiment. 2012 - will be known as "self-destruction".

             
          • kohana posted at 6:14 pm on Mon, Nov 19, 2012.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            http://israelisoldiersmother.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2012-01-01T00:00:00%2B02:00&updated-max=2013-01-01T00:00:00%2B02:00&max-results=50

            What is An Army

            The latest lie-line of the Gaza propaganda machine is that Gaza has no army, no forces. They want you to believe Israel is attacking Palestinian civilians (we aren't) who are unarmed (they aren't) simply because we want to steal their land (we don't). In fact, the Palestinian fighters are armed.

            They have fired over 900 rockets at Israel in the last 6 days. Dozens each day - at our southern residents, at Tel Aviv, at Jerusalem - in total, three million people - 45% of the entire population, is under attack.

            What is an army? Perhaps that is the question. Perhaps an army is more than large amounts of soldiers with weapons.

            There's no question they have weapons - they have been firing rockets for more than 12 years. They have uniforms, certainly. They have training facilities and they pay these soldiers to attack Israelis.

            But maybe they are right because maybe, just maybe, an army is about the country which it defends.

            Perhaps an army is more. I looked up the definition in the online Merriam-Webster dictionary. It defines an army as: "a large organized body of armed personnel trained for war especially on land"

            Well, Hamas and the Palestinians are a large body of armed personnel - but perhaps they aren't so organized? And have they trained for war? Evidently not. I think their specialty is terrorism - suicidal attacks and shooting rockets. They really don't handle war well - already, before the war has even begun, they are begging the world to stop Israel. For once, apparently, at least so far, the world is properly asking them how they thought they could get away with firing on Israel for so long without a response. But who knows what will happen tomorrow.

            The second definition is, "a unit capable of independent action and consisting usually of a headquarters, two or more corps, and auxiliary troops."

            The second definition is, "a unit capable of independent action and consisting usually of a headquarters, two or more corps, and auxiliary troops."

            Well, they certainly have...oh...well, had a headquarters until we blew it up a day or so ago. They have several divisions and plenty of auxiliary troops.

            At first, I thought that maybe the definition proves that those who say the Palestinians have no army are correct. No, I do not believe their "army" is capable of independent action, let alone independent thought.

            The greatest victories in Israel's history were accomplished by commanders and soldiers who used their minds and made decisive moves to accomplish their operations. The other thing that the Palestinian army lacks is a sense of morality. They have been firing on Israeli towns and villages. Today, they hit a school, more homes and stores. But then, morality does not necessarily go hand and hand with most armies...look at the Nazis, the Iranians, the Iraqis...

            But finally, what convinced me that they have an army, despite the somewhat restricted definition, is that this force has managed, in the last 6 days, to attack three million people by firing almost 1,000 rockets. No, it isn't that they lack forces; rather, they lack the ability to want peace. The best soldiers are those who do not want to fight because they will fight with more determination to return to their homes. The bravest soldiers are those who want to live and want to make sure their families are there when they come home. They do not hide behind their wives and children, put guns and explosives in holy places.

            So, what do we have? An army - oh definitely. They are an army of terrorists determined to fight civilians. And, as expected, they quake and run when confronted with a true army. More than 100 people a day are dying in Syria, yet the Arab governments, even the Syrian government, is focused on getting Israel to stop, to accept an enforced ceasefire.

            More people died in Syria today than have died in all of the last 6 days in Gaza, in fact, more people were killed today in Syria than in the last four months in Gaza. So what is the big deal?

            The big deal, I think, is the utter embarrassment it will be to the Arab world when a true and trained army takes on a terrorist army on their own terms - force to force, soldier to soldier. I hate that this has to happen; that my son will be part of it. But if our soldiers don't face theirs, the Palestinian soldiers will continue to fight their chosen target - the people of Israel, our civilians, our children.


            When there WILL be Peace

            I've quoted this before, but today, as my son goes to war for the second time against Gaza in a conflict they started by firing dozens of rockets at Israel, this seems more appropriate than ever...

            “We can forgive the Arabs for killing our children. We cannot forgive them for forcing us to kill their children… We will only have peace with the Arabs when they love their children more than they hate us.”
            Golda Meir, Former Israeli Prime Minister

             
          • Rob123 posted at 5:52 pm on Mon, Nov 19, 2012.

            Rob123 Posts: 6569

            HTC: "Now there is only one, and it is the worse one. Based on the persuasive testimony of ex-CIA boss David Petraeus, it is clear the Obama administration made a deliberate decision to mislead Congress and the American people."

            That is absolute flaming horsepucky, but at least it got you out of your funk.

            There are still 2 possible places the changes happened: 1) Obama Administration 2.) Intelligence Community (NOT CIA, But they are just a part of the wide ranging, humongous, Defense Intelligence Community/NSA/etc.).

            Stay tuned, and remember to breathe. God, you're such a big headed adolescent.

             
          • kohana posted at 5:47 pm on Mon, Nov 19, 2012.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            So sad that so many of you on the left think HTC is either raging or full of hate. None of you seem to recognize either disgust or grief for what our country has gone through and what we see coming. If he hated, he would never post here at all, because he wouldn't give a da*n. However, he has gone through extraordinary lengths as well as R. Spencer to educate Frank's readers and commentators. Not only about economics but our flawed political processes as well.

            I am upset about a front page AP article, published today by DIL, a spin about the conflict in Israel. Absolutely biased against Israel. Frank could have written his own article with the facts instead of Gaze propaganda.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 5:04 pm on Mon, Nov 19, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            Bronco posted at 4:57 pm on Mon, Nov 19, 2012

            It probably took me less time to type that text than it does you to hatch a thought of your own.

            And if you really think that it was all just "grumbling", than you truly are the king of idiots.

             
          • Bronco posted at 4:57 pm on Mon, Nov 19, 2012.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            400 lines in 24 hours. I guess HTC is a full-time grumbler. Let this be a lesson to all of you: Hatred is so consuming.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 2:13 pm on Mon, Nov 19, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            The ugly truth about Benghazi and Team Obama
            By Michael Goodwin | New York Post
            November 19, 2012

            Until Friday, there were two possible explanations for why the White House failed to immediately call the Benghazi attack an act of terrorism. One was incompetence, the other was worse.

            Now there is only one, and it is the worse one. Based on the persuasive testimony of ex-CIA boss David Petraeus, it is clear the Obama administration made a deliberate decision to mislead Congress and the American people.

            The repeated claim that the attack was spontaneous and grew out of a demonstration against an anti-Islam video — a claim made by the president and secretary of State as they stood next to the bodies of four dead Americans — was a monstrous lie. It was vile and done for the basest of reasons.

            Because we now know the truth of what happened — CIA reports were edited to remove the names of al Qaeda groups involved in the attack, Petraeus said under oath — we also know the motive. It was political self-preservation, meaning the president and his team put politics first.

            Based on the persuasive testimony of ex-CIA boss David Petraeus, it is clear the Obama administration made a deliberate decision to mislead Congress and the American people.

            The timing helps tell the tale. Just days removed from his Charlotte convention, where he danced on the grave of Osama bin Laden and boasted that al Qaeda was decimated, Obama couldn’t bear to admit that affiliated groups were thriving in North Africa. And he certainly couldn’t admit they had carried out a murderous attack on our consulate on the 11th anniversary of the most awful day in American history.

            To do so would be to acknowledge the failure of his decision to ignore hard-line Islamists and that his team had erred egregiously in rejecting pleas for more security from Libya Ambassador Chris Stevens.

            So the president lied, including in a speech to the United Nations, where he cited the video as the reason for the attack. He sent out reams of flunkies to do the same, including his snide press secretary, Jay Carney.

            Most notably, UN Ambassador Susan Rice went on five Sunday television shows to spin the nonsense about the hijacking of a demonstration — a demonstration that never existed. Rice made a fool of herself, and now, she, too is damaged goods.

            Oddly, Petraeus, brought down by the reckless affair with his biographer, nonetheless looks like the only honest man in the drama.

            A briefing he gave soon after the attack is now more suspect because it adhered to the party line, despite his belief that it was always a terrorist attack.

            But Friday in his testimony behind closed doors, Petraeus told the truth as he knew it, even though the administration announced the day before that it was investigating his conduct at the CIA.

            If that was meant to pressure him to protect the president, it failed spectacularly. Whatever his personal failings, Petraeus reinforced his reputation for professional integrity.

            The next move is up to Congress. While Democrats are predictably and shamefully trying to deny the significance of Petraeus’ revelation, Republicans say they are determined to get the full truth, wherever the hunt takes them.

            Especially as the president begins a new term, and huge economic and tax difference must be resolved, the country would be better served if the administration co-operates. But their behavior up to now does not make that seem likely. Having built their web of lies, it would be hard to suddenly come clean.

            The first tests will come with the next round of hearings. Any attempt by the White House to block the appearance of any official who played a role in shaping the false narrative should be seen as proof that the stonewalling continues.

            In that case, the full power of the constitution must be brought to bear. Nobody is above the law, even the president.

            Michael Goodwin is a New York Post columnist

             
          • mooseberryinn posted at 1:46 pm on Mon, Nov 19, 2012.

            mooseberryinn Posts: 2658

            Comrade Obama "won" this election by a combination of factors; 1. The media lied for him, and lied negatively about Romney. 2. Certain "odd" things appear to have happened in the very important (populated) states. 3. The people who voted for Comrade Obama are simply too stupid to have made an intelligent choice.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 1:45 pm on Mon, Nov 19, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            Dumbest progressive statement of the day:

            "“The reasons for Anonymous intervention through #OpIsrael should be abundantly clear: What is happening in Palestine is oppression. They have no navy, no army, or air force. There is no war in Gaza.” - Anonymous, the Internet collective which is has now launched over 44 million cyber-attacks against Israel in less than a week

            Apparently, firing thousands upon thousands of missiles into Israeli civilian areas, hoping to kill women and children in the process, is not 'war' in these idiots' minds.

            This kind of gross illogic which also demonstrates the lack of a moral compass is so typical of many on the left who otherwise measure high on the IQ scale. It just goes to show that you can have a high IQ but be nothing more than a functioning idiot.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 1:42 pm on Mon, Nov 19, 2012.

            Rob123 Posts: 6569

            HTC: "What's next, we're going to have the guy who won the PowerBall advising Congress on economic policies?"

            From your heartfelt doom and gloom this morning, we might as well?

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 1:31 pm on Mon, Nov 19, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            Rob123: David Frum, President George W. Bush's speechwriter, tweeted this gem: "Horrible possibility: if the geeks are right about Ohio, might they also be right about climate?"

            HTC: Only someone completely unfounded in the sciences and the scientific method would even begin to suggest that there is any relationship between climate science and poltical polling/predictions. What's next, we're going to have the guy who won the PowerBall advising Congress on economic policies?

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 1:23 pm on Mon, Nov 19, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            Bronco: You remind me of Mad's Spy vs. Spy cartoons where one spy thinks he has the upper hand, but in reality the other spy has the advantage, and it always ends with the triumphant spy laughing.

            HTC: Your capacity to misread nearly everything and to produce inappropriate analogies/metaphors goes without challenge in this forum.

            In absolutely no way do I feel that I have the "upper hand" where the economic fate of this nation is concerned; on the contrary, it is you and your fellow morons who are currently driving the bus and putting the pedal-to-the-metal as you steer it towards the economic cliff.

            I find absolutely nothing to laugh about in all of that, other than, perhaps, the fact that you and your fellow economically-handicapped dunces are gleeful in delight that you've been given the keys to the bus, completely oblivious as to the reality ahead. There's a certain strained comedic thread that runs through that reality.

            However, call it a character defect if you must, but I likely will take some pleasure and perhaps even faintly laugh at the ruinous predicament that you lefties will eventually find yourselves in. It is poetic justice to see idiots get what they desperately deserve. There is a price for being stupid - you just haven't yet been presented with the check.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 12:28 pm on Mon, Nov 19, 2012.

            Rob123 Posts: 6569

            http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-11-19/the-triumph-and-challenge-of-climate-math.html

            David Frum, President George W. Bush's speechwriter, tweeted this gem: "Horrible possibility: if the geeks are right about Ohio, might they also be right about climate?"

            "The Triumph (and Challenge) of Climate Math"

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 11:01 am on Mon, Nov 19, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            Rebel Rouser: I believe the Republicans lost for a very simple reason. While on the campaign trail they talk about our constitution, fiscal responsibility, freedom, smaller government, lower taxes, etc., etc. However, once they get into ANY position of governance, the ONLY thing they do is begin the process of fighting wars, chiseling away at Roe v Wade, manipulating and controlling the use of cannabis, and making mockery of everything Democratic.

            HTC: There's a significant amount of truth to your statement, although I think you've exaggerated a few points.

            Exit polls show that a significant number of conservatives did NOT get out and vote because they weren't convinced of Romney's fiscal conservative credentials. Some were also concerned that Romney might increase our military involvement in the Middle East, even though he promised that he wouldn't (the latter concern I find interesting, considering the orthodox Mormon position on the few cases where violence is jusfified.) Romney did get more of the GOP base to turn out than McCain managed to do, but there was still a significant portion that could never vote for Obama but couldn't convince themselves to vote for Romney either. Had they turned out and voted for Romney, he would have easily won the popular vote and possibly the electoral college as well.

            For whatever reason, ever since Reagan, the GOP has become infested with neocons and RINOs and has lost sight of its noble roots which once were based entirely on limited government, free markets, fiscal conservatism, sound monetary policy and, yes, civil rights. It was the GOP which banned slavery, freed the slaves, preserved the union, forced desegregation on the Democratic south and enforced voting rights for the blacks. If they find their way back to those noble principles, they have a chance of regaining influence and setting this country on a course back to true individual liberty and conformance with the Tenth Amendment, the most ignored of all in the Bill of Rights.

            As for your words "making a mockery of everything Democratic", what do you mean by "Democratic"? What do you believe they're doing in violation of our founding documents? And, while you're at it, what do you believe the Democrats are doing in violation of those documents?

            Rebel Rouser: They NEVER do what they say they stand for. When and who were the last republicans (at the helm) to try and resolve the out of control welfare programs that are totally mis-used and corrupt? I'll tell you, no one, ever!

            HTC: You apparently have forgotten that it was a Republican-controlled Congress, led by Gingrich, which gave us the Welfare Reform Act of 1996 (as well as our first surplus in decades), the first and only significant piece of welfare reform since the beginning of Johnson's "Great Society." That law reduced the welfare rolls by almost 60%. It was the Democrats who weakened it again in the 'stimulus' bill and Obama who weakened it further by effectively waiving the workfare requirement, even though the WRA prohibited modifications to or waiving of any portion of that part of the law by the executive branch. Then, of course, he and the MSM proceeded to lie and insist that they 'd done no such thing (their typical MO.)

            Conversely, that neocon G.W. Bush gave us Medicare Part D which is now bleeding red ink even faster than the rest of Medicare and Social Security. It is exactly these kinds of mixed messages which have cost them support from much of their traditional base.

            Rebel Rouser: Women would have to accept going back to the place in time where they were nothing more than subservient items of ownership.

            HTC: What in the world would make you think that? G.W. Bush appointed more women and minorities to his cabinet and staff than Bill Clinton ever did and, unlike, Bill wasn't a sexual harrasser. Reagan appointed the first woman to the the U.S. Supreme Court. The VERY conservative states of Wyoming and Texas were the first two states to elect a woman as their governor.

            The list goes on and on which demolishes your claim that conservatives and Republicans want to "own" women.

            Rebel Rouser: Also, Republicans now want nothing more than to shove the doctrines of their religion (Christianity) down our throats, with every single tidbit of legislation they pass.

            HTC: Again, I agree in principle, although I feel you have again given in to exaggeration, since there really haven't been that many legislative efforts to "shove....Christianity down our throats."

            One of my big beefs with the GOP is that there are many of them who would just as quickly trample upon the Constitution in the service of their religious beliefs, and just as quickly as the Democrats have for decades in the service of their perverted religion called "Social Justice." Yet, for some reason, I never hear you complain about the incredibly long list of such violations of our Constitution by the Democrats. It's almost as though, as long as cannabis is legalized, you're going to be happy.

            Rebel Rouser: We have been paying the salaries of the Republicans in congress for doing absolutely nothing except providing contemptuous, partisan politics at the level of snakes and cockroaches. The Republican party will soon be extinct if they continue down the extreme right wing, Tea Party, fanatical Christian, freedom thieving, path they have chosen to take. What little good they do is far overshadowed by their fanaticism.

            HTC: But you don't mind paying the Democrats for the incredible harm they've done to real personal liberty, to the economy and to our global competitiveness, nor object to their mortgaging of our children's and grandchildren's futures in the service of their perverted religion called "Social Justice?" You don't mind that they took the best public education system in the developed world and made it one of the worst? You don't mind that they'll give lower college tuition rates to children of illegals than what they'll charge your children? You don't mind that they'll pay for heart-lung transplants for inmates on death-row but will tax you heavily if you don't buy expensive ObamaCare insurance? You don't mind that they've sabotaged our energy industry and made us dependent upon our enemies for oil? That Obama has shipped our money, deep-sea oil platforms and good-paying jobs to Brazil in hopes that we'll become THEIR best customer? You don't mind that he's taking credit for the oil and natural gas boom n PRIVATE lands, which he couldn't stop, even as he's greatly reduced leases and drilling on public lands, depriving us of billions in revenue from those public lands?

            I could go on, it's such a lengthy list, but if you don't "get it" already, you probably never will.

            Rebel Rouser: This is NOT the party of the past, the one I once supported.

            HTC: No, it isn't and that's why I've been an independent for a very long time. However, the answer certainly isn't to embrace the Democrats simply because the GOP has become, in so many ways, Democrat Lite. If the GOP are, as you claim, "snakes and cockroaches", then the Democrats are the one thing even lower than that: sewer scum.

             
          • Bronco posted at 10:01 am on Mon, Nov 19, 2012.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            HTC: Our nation's fiscal day of reckoning is coming... I'd have to want to save the stupid from a fate they desperately deserve, which I do not...Remember, he who laughs LAST laughs best.
            ---------------------
            Thank the stars you're not one of those gloom-and-doom, vindictive, messiahs who gloat and ridicule.

            You remind me of Mad's Spy vs. Spy cartoons where one spy thinks he has the upper hand, but in reality the other spy has the advantage, and it always ends with the triumphant spy laughing.

            But then you could be that mental patient, laughing maniacally and dancing around the dead psychiatrist's body.

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 9:45 am on Mon, Nov 19, 2012.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1561

            I believe the Republicans lost for a very simple reason. While on the campaign trail they talk about our constitution, fiscal responsibility, freedom, smaller government, lower taxes, etc., etc. However, once they get into ANY position of governance, the ONLY thing they do is begin the process of fighting wars, chiseling away at Roe v Wade, manipulating and controlling the use of cannabis, and making mockery of everything Democratic. They NEVER do what they say they stand for. When and who were the last republicans (at the helm) to try and resolve the out of control welfare programs that are totally mis-used and corrupt? I'll tell you, no one, ever! Women would have to accept going back to the place in time where they were nothing more than subservient items of ownership. Also, Republicans now want nothing more than to shove the doctrines of their religion (Christianity) down our throats, with every single tidbit of legislation they pass. We have been paying the salaries of the Republicans in congress for doing absolutely nothing except providing contemptuous, partisan politics at the level of snakes and cockroaches. The Republican party will soon be extinct if they continue down the extreme right wing, Tea Party, fanatical Christian, freedom thieving, path they have chosen to take. What little good they do is far overshadowed by their fanaticism. This is NOT the party of the past, the one I once supported.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 9:20 am on Mon, Nov 19, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            mooseberryinn: I don't know if America will remain a "free" nation.

            HTC: Americans need to come to grips with the fact that we have already lost most of the freedoms which the Constitution guaranteed us. Today, we're just struggling to hold onto what little freedom we have left.

            Sadly, most Americans, particularly young people, have no idea what true personal liberty really is but they insist they're free. If you ask them to define "freedom", most eventually boil it down to things such as freedom to decide where to live and work or to start a business, what to study in college, sexual freedom, etc.

            The freedom our Founders sought to preserve for generation after generation goes far beyond that. They knew that the truly free man had a right to privacy which we lack today. Because of all the laws we've passed which regulate how information about us can be used by corporations, we feel that we've secured our privacy; yet, our government knows more about our finances, employment, business and movements than even our parents had any right to know, thanks to the income tax, property taxes, permits, fees, etc. Almost every financial decision we make today has tax consequences, and so the tax man is there in every family financial discussion.

            Because of ObamaCare, the government will soon know everything about us physically and regarding our health and healthcare choices. Government will decide for us what is or isn't covered, how much is covered and how much it will cost.

            Our tax burden is so great that it now takes two incomes in a household to try to maintain a middle class existence. One of those two individuals is working just to pay the family's tax bills. Much of those taxes goes to support people who aren't working or doing their part to support themselves. We are enslaved by the state in the service of a perverted sense of "social justice" and have spent so much already that we're now spending our children and grandchildren's future earnings.

            We pay far more for almost everything because the government has destroyed free market forces and decides what we can buy and for how much. Government continues to add to an already incredible regulatory burden on business, making it harder and harder for people to start their own businesses. Government fiscal and monetary policies now make it virtually impossible for businesses to borrow money to expand or sustain operations.

            Those of us who own real property don't really own it - we're renting if from the government in the form of property taxes. Fail to pay those taxes and you lose your property. Pay those taxes and you're paying for the 'benefit' of government telling you exactly what you can or cannot do with it.

            If you are fortunate enough to succeed financially, in spite of government's many barriers to success, you don't get to leave your estate to those you wish without Uncle Sam taking a big chunk out of it because government doesn't care that the death tax is unconstitutional double-taxation and believes that it alone has the right to decide who should now benefit from your hard work and often that of other family members as well.

            You are forced to pay exhorbitantly for the worst public school system in the developed world, one that can barely graduate kids with what used to be an eighth grade level education, leaving most families little else with which to send their children to a private school instead.

            You are saddled with the largest ripoff known to man - Social Security - which will pay you no more than one-third of what those payroll taxes would have yielded if wisely invested in the private sector. Your SS "contract" with your government is constantly amended, with benefits reduced, retirement age pushed out and, even though you were already taxed on your payroll taxes, you can be taxed again when you collect SS. And when you die, unlike an IRA or 401(k), you can't leave the rest to your family.

            To add insult to injury, your own private sector pension or retirement accounts aren't guaranteed; yet, government employees enjoy the most generous pension plans to be found and we're being told that, even though they're grossly underfunded, we in the private sector will have to pay more taxes to keep them cozy in their retirements while many of us never will get to retire.

            And we call them "public servants"? Who is serving whom in this picture?

            And now, thanks to ObamaCare, we live in an age where the government can tell us what to buy and for how much and we can be heavily fined if we refuse. When the government can fine you merely because you exist and breathe, how can you consider yourself at all "free?"

            No, mooseberryinn, we are not free but are, in fact, heavily controlled by, directed by, coerced by and taxed by a government that has grossly exceeded its Constitutional boundaries and, by our allowing it to do so, we have forfeited much of our freedom already.

            I don't know if you saw any of the videos of exit interviews done outside of some polling places earlier this month, but I've seen several with young people jubilantly expressing that their vote for Obama was a vote for "freedom."

            Like I said, they have no idea what real freedom is because they actually voted for less of it.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:39 am on Mon, Nov 19, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            Rob123: A messiah complex (also known as the Christ complex or savior complex) is a state of mind in which an individual holds a belief they are, or are destined to become, a savior.

            HTC: Well, that clearly doesn't apply to me for at least two reasons:

            (1) I'd have to believe that it's possible to fix stupid, but I know better.

            (2) I'd have to want to save the stupid from a fate they desperately deserve, which I do not.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:36 am on Mon, Nov 19, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            Bronco: Your guy lost. Your party lost.

            HTC: No, it was the nation and the economy which lost.

            Bronco: I'll be laughing after the 2016 election too.

            HTC: Possibly. But I'll wager that you won't be laughing for many more years. Our nation's fiscal day of reckoning is coming; you're just too ignorant on finance and economics to see that.

            Remember, he who laughs LAST laughs best.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:29 am on Mon, Nov 19, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            Frank: Although based on the reaction so far, it appears people would rather just complain and give up.

            HTC: Most of the people that I know aren't complaining any longer; rather, they're focused now on enjoying the time we have left with our families and friends as they prepare for our inevitable rendezvous with the fiscal gods of retribution.

            Of course, our friends on the left who continue to live in la-la land, don't see it coming and some even resent those of us who do and talk about it because it's a "downer" for their little progressive minds to have to deal with. And because they don't see it coming, they'll be devastated when it happens.

            Had we kept our federal government within the much smaller box that the Constitution defines for it, progressives wouldn't be the threat they are today because all they'd be able to do is screw up a few states and their economies, while the rest of us in the red states would be doing much better. The producers from those blue states would soon enough relocate to our states and the Californias, Michigans, New Yorks, etc. would either change their errant ways or go down the tubes financially and with no federal bailout coming because the Constitution does not allow such things.

            Had we kept the federal government within its Constitutional boundaries, welfare would be a state matter and most, if not all, of the red states wouldn't have it; therefore, they wouldn't be a draw to the illegals who have flooded across our borders for decades. Red states wouldn't have public housing, so we'd lack most of the crime-ridden ghettos and slums which exist across our nation today. Our blacks, Hispanics and other minorities would be producers, both workers and business owners, and they would vote the interests of the tax producer, not the tax consumer who would starve except for charity.

            In other words, our economies would look more like the one we had in the fifties and sixties, where a solid middle class existence only required one income and the household tax burden was one-fourth what it is today; yet, like then, we'd have plenty of money for infrastructure, schools, etc. Without the perverting effects of Medicare and Medicaid, our healthcare costs would be far lower, with many simply paying out of pocket for routine care and health insurance would be readily affordable by most as it, too, would cost FAR less than it does today. Our schools would be the top schools in the nation, for they'd be private schools with vouchers allowing parents to send their children to the school of their choice. Again, being citizens of sound mind and logic, we know that it is competition which guarantees lower cost and higher quality and the lack of competition in government-run education is what always guarantees its mediocrity. Local and state government would cost FAR less because public employees wouldn't be able to unionize. There'd be no defined-benefit pension plans with massive unfunded liabilities because, being people of sound mind and good math skills, we'd know they're simply not sustainable.

            Confronted by red society's insistence upon personal responsibility and effort, today's tax consumers would flood to the blue states, dragging them down even faster into the firepit of history which is reserved for every socialist/communist government.

            No, moving isnt' the solution because the powerful and perverting hand of an unconstitutional federal government is present everywhere and soon enough, the electoral map would again be largely blue. The only real solution is to push that government back into the tiny box reserved for it by our Founders and give all the power back to the states and the people as the 10th Amendment commands.

            I don't see any way to achieve that today, so my hope and confidence is placed in "libertarianism by bankruptcy". It is coming, no matter how much the blind progressive left denies it, and probably in less than 12-15 years. Like my family and friends, I'm preparing for it while savoring our time together in the moments leading up to that reckoning.

            It's all the rational man can do at this point.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 7:14 am on Mon, Nov 19, 2012.

            jennydoe Posts: 2196

            HTIC: That so many can fail to see what I've described, speaks volumes about the ignorance of such a large part of our population.
            $$$$$$$$$$$$$
            your 15 minutes of fame ended. you are no more important than any of us. you really need to get back to earth, maybe hang outside for a day or so. and you really didn't need to build such an eye-sore of an entrance gate.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 7:09 am on Mon, Nov 19, 2012.

            jennydoe Posts: 2196

            50,000 reliable republicans. what is that? all good reliable republicans have switched to libertarian or independent. isn't that so HTIC? anyway, if you all want to get a caravan together and head east, I am all for it! I encourage it! I will bake cookies for the road trip. I wouldn't think Colorado would be your destination, especially since all their constituants will be freely stoned and their economy will be booming, and if there is one thing a reliable republican hates it is someone who is perpetually happy.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 6:58 am on Mon, Nov 19, 2012.

            jennydoe Posts: 2196

            bill, you do realize in two more posts we're all gonna think you're the devil...don't you?

             
          • mooseberryinn posted at 6:33 am on Mon, Nov 19, 2012.

            mooseberryinn Posts: 2658

            Golly, what was that old saying? Doesn't matter who or how many vote, it only matters who counts the votes. (Stalin). There were many "oddities" in votes counted, mostly in heavily populated states (Ohio etc.). At any rate it is a shame that so many uneducated/uninformed people voted for Comrade Obama. I don't know if America will remain a "free" nation.

             
          • bill39 posted at 6:09 am on Mon, Nov 19, 2012.

            bill39 Posts: 1036

            HTC: The Democratic Plan, beginning with LBJ, has always been, not one of building a better America, but of building a bigger and better Democratic Party, even at the expense of America.

            Do you mean a bigger and stronger democrat party,even at the expense of America?

            Lets hope Obamer gets caught up in one of his plans of mischief. I do not think the dnc would hesitate to throw him under the bus, afterall they control the media, not Obamer. That way they can blame Obamer for the mess and of course the blame would not fall on the dnc.

            I think the dnc used the money laundering scheme of the stimulus hoax to buy votes for Obamer. Lets hope they ran out of enough money to buy the next election. Afterall he won by only 2 million votes, a very small percentage. I think we have a bigger worry, and that is why we cannot elect a republican, in the primary, that represents republicans. We all know who owns the media. Go Romney go. Even Fox. Sickening

             
          • Rob123 posted at 2:50 am on Mon, Nov 19, 2012.

            Rob123 Posts: 6569

            HighTechCowboy posted at 9:35 pm on Sun, Nov 18, 2012.

            "That so many can fail to see what I've described, speaks volumes about the ignorance of such a large part of our population."
            ******************
            A messiah complex (also known as the Christ complex or savior complex) is a state of mind in which an individual holds a belief they are, or are destined to become, a savior. The messiah complex does not appear in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM).[1]
            ********************************
            http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/11/08/cbo-letting-upper-income-tax-cuts-expire-would-barely-hurt-economy/
            "CBO: Letting upper-income tax cuts expire would barely hurt economy"
            Posted by Dylan Matthews on November 8, 2012 at 4:44 pm

             
          • Bronco posted at 12:20 am on Mon, Nov 19, 2012.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            HighTechCowboy posted at 9:35 pm
            ------------------------
            You condescending (Your comment cannot be accepted due to the presence of profanity. Please remove any objectionable content from your comment and try again.)

            Stop being such a (Your comment cannot be accepted due to the presence of profanity. Please remove any objectionable content from your comment and try again.)

            Your guy lost. Your party lost. They will continue to lose too as long as you Right Wing Nuts keep shouting the same tripe that lost the majority of American citizens' votes. You dance around, calling everyone ignorant fools, but that didn't work the last two elections and you think it's going to have any positive effect now? The GOP is abandoning you and your loser tactics. Why? Because it doesn't want to become extinct.

            But keep it up; you're a big help. You're going to win over many, many hearts and minds. I'll be laughing after the 2016 election too.

             
          • flyfish posted at 11:24 pm on Sun, Nov 18, 2012.

            flyfish Posts: 189

            I guess you have given up on minority voter suppression as a way to win swing states. There are not enough old angry white men for the GOP to win the Presidency any more, maybe the GOP just needs to fade away and a new party that isn't so stupid needs to take its place.
            The people who are talking secession should look around, even in whitebread Montana, Obama got 42% of the vote, thats still almost half of us, and I would bet that there are still enough Republicans that love this country that they would oppose secession. You wacko's that are talking secession are a very small vocal lot that most people are just tired of listening to.
            I wonder how long after Scott and Krueger take office that the commissioners pass some kind of motion supporting the secessionist movement?

             
          • posted at 10:21 pm on Sun, Nov 18, 2012.

            Posts:

            HI HTC: No, my column was not humorous, although not exactly serious either. It was a hypothetical response to figure out how to tap into the energy that currently is calling for secession or revolution. I figured if people are willing to die for their country, they might be willing to move for it, too! Although based on the reaction so far, it appears people would rather just complain and give up. (And by the way, MtWatch, going to a popular vote will almost surely result in a Democratic victory from this point forward. That would make some people happy, but not the GOP, to whom this column was addressed.) --Frank

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 9:43 pm on Sun, Nov 18, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            Rob123 posted at 6:25 pm on Sun, Nov 18, 2012

            How interesting that even the CBO says that such tax increases would dramatically slow the economy and lead to hundreds of thousands of additional layoffs; yet, Bill Kristol seems to fail to understand this basic aspect of economics and tax policy. I guess I shouldn't be surprised since he's a neocon and not a real conservative; as such, he's just a liberal who's quicker to go to war than your standard progressive.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 9:35 pm on Sun, Nov 18, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            Bronco: Jon addressed this week's Two Cents topic last Thursday.

            HTC: That was one of Jon's better segments and I agree that many miss this key point about the "American experiment." However, this clip did NOT address this week's Two Cents topic unless you believe the topic was merely a lament about minorities being unwanted and a desire for "white control" of our "American experiment."

            Perhaps it's a bit too difficult for you to maintain a thread across many columns over many weeks, so I'll distill it down for you: Frank has been talking about the erosion of our Constitution, freedoms and our economy by government which has vastly exceeded its Constitutional boundaries and which has been empowered by an electorate which understands neither the Constitution nor economics, many of whom favor the unconstitutional redistribution of wealth which is the central theme of the Democratic Party.

            The "white guy" part of all that is merely that it is a fast-shrinking, largely white voting block which still "gets it" regarding our country's founding principles and documents, and unless we can turn things around in the electorate or the electoral college, this Constitutional Republic will soon be lost.

            But since you don't understand any of that yourself, you saw only comedy in Jon's clip and nothing more.

            That so many can fail to see what I've described, speaks volumes about the ignorance of such a large part of our population.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 6:25 pm on Sun, Nov 18, 2012.

            Rob123 Posts: 6569

            Bill Kristol: Tea Party Won’t Care ‘If A Few Millionaires Pay A Couple Percent More In Taxes’

            The Weekly Standard’s Bill Kristol said that Republicans should allow the Bush tax cuts to expire on the richest 2 percent Americans, during an appearance on Fox News Sunday, explaining that the GOP may not have the leverage to maintain the top rate at 35 percent.
            The comment comes one week after Kristol called on the party to stop “falling on its sword to defend a bunch of millionaires” and just as Republicans may be signaling a willingness to increase rates as part of a balanced package to avoid the fiscal cliff. Kristol speculated that the Tea Party could support the change:
            I just don’t think Republicans have the leverage, or that it’s worth using all their – whatever leverage they have, to maintain rates at 35 percent instead of 37 or 38, especially if you can take it up to millionaires. I just don’t think it’s economically as a matter of policy important enough. [...] You know, a lot of the Tea Party guys don’t care that much if a few millionaires pay a couple percent more in taxes, honestly.
            He also predicted that policy makers would reach “a deal by December 31, and I believe Republicans will yield a bit on top rates.” “I mean, President Obama ran twice on this platform and he won last I looked, both presidential elections,” Kristol added. Election Day exit polls found that 60 percent of Americans support higher taxes for the wealthy.[smile]

             
          • Bronco posted at 6:14 pm on Sun, Nov 18, 2012.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            Jon addressed this week's Two Cents topic last Thursday.

            http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-november-15-2012/it-was-the-best-of-times--it-was-the-best-of-times

             
          • mtdawg posted at 3:33 pm on Sun, Nov 18, 2012.

            mtdawg Posts: 293

            Can we assume (hope) Frank that you will be leading by example? I'm sure there's a newspaper somewhere in a swing state that needs a right wing reactionary editor.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 12:42 pm on Sun, Nov 18, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            Bronco: You and your 'negative growth' again. The entire country has had a negative population growth since 1850. When you blow up a ballon, it doesn't burst until it after reaches negative growth.

            HTC: Thank you for that incredibly illuminating insight into what you call 'intelligence.' Our suspicions have been confirmed.

            Bronco: And thank you for lobbing the first personal insult, again, this week.

            HTC: So, now you're taking umbrage at remarks addressed to others? You must like being insulted so much that you will go out of your way to experience one. Good thing for you that your idiotic remarks just naturally precipitate them.

             
          • SorrySOB posted at 12:41 pm on Sun, Nov 18, 2012.

            SorrySOB Posts: 484

            Just one big problem in your plan there Frank. By the time the next election rolls around even more of the stubborn and cranky old white guys will be gone so you better adjust your numbers.

             
          • Bronco posted at 11:09 am on Sun, Nov 18, 2012.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            Wistful thinking, Frank. But I think the reality the GOP needs to face is that white people prefer small counties to live in and the Latinos prefer large ones.

            http://tinyurl.com/d7t832f
            - - - - - - - - - - - -
            And they need to factor in the birth rates:

            White, 10.8 per 1000
            Hispanic/Latino, 17.5 per 1000
            - - - - - - - - - - - - -
            So, the better solution is to stay put, break up the large counties into smaller ones, and become Mormons. Also, if the GOP supported free contraception, there wouldn't be so many, uh, Democrats.

             
          • Bronco posted at 10:39 am on Sun, Nov 18, 2012.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            HTC: CA has actually experienced negative population growth for several years now
            ---------------------------
            You and your 'negative growth' again. The entire country has had a negative population growth since 1850. When you blow up a ballon, it doesn't burst until it after reaches negative growth.
            And thank you for lobbing the first personal insult, again, this week.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 10:27 am on Sun, Nov 18, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            Frank, I find myself having to assume that you intended today's column to be humorous and not a serious suggestion, as there's no way that such large population shifts are going to happen primarily to change the face of the electoral map. Some states such as CA, MI, NY and PA have long been so hostile to business and the rich, that many have left for economic reasons and more continue to leave, but many other blue strongholds haven't yet gone as far down the socialist road as those states, so they haven't yet reaped the full harvest of pain for their folly.

            Furthermore, a lot of these conservatives own small businesses which are tightly bound to their local community. Moving isn’t an option for many of them.

            In 2000, when Bush was elected, nonwhites accounted for 20% of the vote. In 2012, they accounted for 28%. In 1972, white males made up 46% of the electorate; this year they accounted for only 34% of the electorate.

            Fifty years ago, blacks voted almost exclusively for Republicans; now, the Democrats get 90% of their vote. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FDLHFYLGBU) We've seen a similar trend in the Hispanic vote.

            Q: What changed?

            A: LBJ and the Great Society; that is, the birth and rapid growth of the nanny state which now consumes 70% of the federal budget and will grow to over 90% by the end of this decade.

            Another major factor has been the massive migration of women out of the home and into the work force, accompanied by more of them remaining single, marrying later and divorcing. These changes have made women more vulnerable to the siren song of the Democrats that "we'll take care of you!"

            Reproduction rate differences between conservatives and progressives long favored the conservative side of the spectrum UNTIL the Democrats realized that blacks and Hispanics could easily backfill that deficit for them. All they had to do was buy their votes with handouts, amnesty, special tuition rates for illegals, etc. When one looks at the high dropout rates, high illiteracy rates, high out-of-wedlock birth rates, and high unemployment rates amongst blacks and Hispanics, the Democratic message of “we’ll take care of you” was a sure-fire winner.

            The Democratic Plan, beginning with LBJ, has always been, not one of building a better America, but of building a bigger and better Democratic Party, even at the expense of America.
            Those who think the GOP can win over blacks and Hispanics by “changing their message” are either smoking dope or suggesting that the GOP abandon its honorable roots and play the same game. Either way, it won’t work. There are many in the black and Hispanic communities who’ve tried to tell their communities that they are their own worst enemies and have to break free from the soft chains placed upon them by the Democratic Party.

            These people are called “Uncle Toms” or other names by the far more numerous Democratic shills within those communities and many of these brave individuals have had their homes/businesses vandalized and received death threats as well.

            If these groups will not listen to their own, is it anything other than insanity to believe that they’ll hear it from an “old, rich white guy?”

            No, the only real hope we have for getting this country back to its Constitutional roots is what some have called “libertarianism by bankruptcy.” The ongoing costs of the soft chains of dependency which the Democrats have placed upon these groups will soon bankrupt our nation and send us into a deep recession/depression. When that happens, millions of Americans will wake up the fact that their government handouts are worthless and their lives are going to be absolutely miserable if they don’t figure out a way to provide for themselves.

            History teaches us that this is always the end of every socialist state and we are deluding ourselves if we think we will escape the same fate.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 9:14 am on Sun, Nov 18, 2012.

            Rob123 Posts: 6569

            "Head Of Romney’s Hispanic Outreach: ‘I Was Shocked’ By ‘Gifts’ Comment"

            "A growing number of Republicans are distancing themselves from Romney’s claims, while prominent lawmakers like Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) have re-started negotiations aimed at achieving comprehensive reform “that would create a limited guest-worker program and enable illegal immigrants already in the U.S. with no criminal record to pay fines and eventually apply for legal status.”
            Sens. Susan Collins (R-ME) and Marco Rubio (R-FL) are calling for a narrower approach and are considering a DREAM Act-like bill that would allow young undocumented immigrants to stay in the country."

             
          • Lucky posted at 9:11 am on Sun, Nov 18, 2012.

            Lucky Posts: 16

            "It sounds crazy, but..." my what an elegant solution. We'll get the last "50,000 reliable Republican" voters in the country to move to Ohio. Then Ohio will have all the old, white guys and will reliably vote for the GOP. Sounds much more sane than secession, or the civil war Mr. Miele was proposing last week. I would, however, propose that Frank wait until spring before he moves. The weather in Ohio is just so unpredictable this time of year. Just let me know if you need some help packing and don't let the screen door hit you on the way out.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:48 am on Sun, Nov 18, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            Rob123 posted at 5:37 am on Sun, Nov 18, 2012

            If you truly believe your own crap, then you voted for Romney because you don't believe in science and want to destroy the environment.

            But if you don't believe the B.S. you constantly shovel onto these pages, then you're a troublesome fool and a waste of everyone's time and whole lot of electrons.

             
          • lousia posted at 8:45 am on Sun, Nov 18, 2012.

            lousia Posts: 196

            Thanks Frank for another great column, and I see as always the comments are the same old, same old, anyway, I was reading about this succeeding from The Union, I decided I was here 1st so I will stay put.
            But where did lots of people go who I thought loved freedom, I guess they love the gimme more. But we have Good Americans left who believe in the U. S. A. so will sit back and keep looking up and watching;
            Don't have the money are to elderly to move to Australia, always liked to hear about that country.
            From what i hear the prime minister there does not put up with nonsense like other places.any come to mind???

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:44 am on Sun, Nov 18, 2012.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9879

            who new: With Moonbeam as governor, a Democratic legislative supermajority, and voter approved new taxes, people will be moving from California in droves anyway. As stupid as Californians are, maybe we could talk them into moving to Ohio.

            HTC: The 'rich' and businesses have been fleeing California since 2000 and recent developments there will only accelerate that process. CA has actually experienced negative population growth for several years now, but it hasn't declined nearly as much as the number of refugees would suggest, thanks to the influx of poor from across the country as well as Mexico, all seeking CA's more generous public services and welfare benefits while CA continues to lose more of those who were picking up the tab

            The northern blue states have long been experiencing the same migration of manufacturers and other businesses to the red south and southeast, where they are welcomed with open arms and a favorable business climate.

            who new: On the other hand, if we were to succeed from the union, we might be able to keep the Californians out of Montana.

            HTC: Just tell any Californian you encounter that our winters are 9 months long. That's generally sufficient to keep them out.

             
          • Mtwatch posted at 8:43 am on Sun, Nov 18, 2012.

            Mtwatch Posts: 31

            Moving is NOT the answer! ELIMINATE the electoral voting method IS THE ANSWER!

             
          • Rob123 posted at 5:37 am on Sun, Nov 18, 2012.

            Rob123 Posts: 6569

            A modern day resurgence of Ye Olde Manifest Destiny? I'm not moving to Ohio! The last time I drove through there, when you pull off the road to look around, there were signs posted "Don't drink the water!". Yet there were people fishing, and when I asked them about the health of the fish, most said "We throw them back! Just here for the sport and the sun.". Weird. But I hear it's getting better. Of course, quite a few Republican Presidential Candidates, and their supporters, scream for the defunding of the EPA and it's god awful big nose stuck into everything and costing an arm and a leg to the great Producers of America. "Our grandfathers dumped raw chemical sewage into the Rivers, and it was good! Why can't we?". "Science, you morons!" "But, I don't believe in Science!". "It doesn't mater if you believe in Science, it still exists. Very different than belief in an invisible God thingy.".

            I think the Republican Message and actual Thinking needs to be tweaked more than merely moving excess Red State Voters-Bodies to Blue State strongholds. Especially when one considers that Texas, in 2020, will turn Blue due to natural occurring Birth and Death demographics, unless Republicans can actually change their message and politics without destroying their core beliefs concerning Economics.

             
          • who new posted at 12:29 am on Sun, Nov 18, 2012.

            who new Posts: 367

            Correction, 'secede' from the union. Sorry.

             
          • who new posted at 12:03 am on Sun, Nov 18, 2012.

            who new Posts: 367

            Good tongue-in-cheek, Frank. One would really have to be a patriot to move from Florida to Ohio.

            With Moonbeam as governor, a Democratic legislative supermajority, and voter approved new taxes, people will be moving from California in droves anyway. As stupid as Californians are, maybe we could talk them into moving to Ohio.

            On the other hand, if we were to succeed from the union, we might be able to keep the Californians out of Montana.

             
          • HRH Prince Michael posted at 9:46 pm on Sat, Nov 17, 2012.

            HRH Prince Michael Posts: 104

            Firstly, as a life-long and avid Newspaper aficionado, I'm compelled to say:
            Mr. Miele is a simply superb columnist and writer. Always a compelling
            and powerful perspective, his skills are unmatched by most major
            newspaper journalists.


            Disturbingly though, this week Mr. Miele has transformed his normally irreverent
            space, into a crafty -albeit subtle- "government" propaganda piece. With only
            "The Battle Hymn of The Republic" playing gently in background absent, Mr. Miele is merely pandering to "Powers-that-won't-be", using and reducing terms such as "Founding Fathers", "The Declaration of Independence", and "The Constitution" in almost shill-like manner:
            "The Nonviolent Revolution of 2024"?
            Mr. Miele and yes, Mr. Weaver, like so many in the sadly subservient "Media" today, must
            first realize: Before you can expect to bring Truth to others, you must first be truthful with yourselves.
            The American Revelation, has already begun - with or without you.
            The 2000 Hanging-Chad "Election"?
            The 2008 A.C.O.R.N.-fraud "Election"?
            The 2012 Almighty God SELECTION:
            http://www.all4webs.com/q/f/love4yahweh
            http://www.flickr.com/photos/72265268@N08


             
          • SorrySOB posted at 8:29 pm on Sat, Nov 17, 2012.

            SorrySOB Posts: 484

            Uh. They tried changing the map by redistricting. They also tried changing the voter ID laws claiming voter fraud that didn't exist. In fact, they tried just about every trick in the book to win the election and still failed. Maybe you and the rest of the fringe right wing radicals should look at the failure the GOP was and try something new cause nothing is working for you at the moment. The secession of Montana is an idea I would certainly support.

             
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