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Posted: Saturday, February 23, 2013 7:00 pm | Updated: 12:43 pm, Thu Apr 17, 2014.

What’s good for the goose is good for the gander, and the same thing goes for Al Gore and Rupert Murdoch, right?

I wrote a column recently excoriating Al Gore for selling his Current TV cable channel to Al Jazeera, the Arabic news broadcast company based in Qatar. It isn’t just that Al Jazeera is Arabic, but rather that it is a mouthpiece for the Muslim Brotherhood and other Islamist causes.

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          Welcome to the discussion.

          272 comments:

          • Bronco posted at 4:20 pm on Sun, Mar 3, 2013.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            Good one, Pete. Remember that in order to need a savior, one must have something to be saved from.

            By Jews I mean the Judaism-adherents, not the tribal member. That would automatically preclude one from believing the gospels. Much like a Christian could not be a Christian if he believed in Hinduism. Three gods should be enough for anyone.

             
          • Pete posted at 1:35 pm on Sun, Mar 3, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Bronco posted at 12:09 pm on Sun, Mar 3, 2013

            "Do Jews believe in the gospels?"

            Depends on the Jew...don't forget, the gospels were written by them. It also depends on what you mean by "believe in the gospels" ie. the difference between what happened and the implications of what happened. Folks can see the same events but interpret the meaning of the events quite differently.

            I don't think the numbers are absurd considering they encompass so many people groups and whole communities disappeared. I do believe we have to be careful in extrapolating numbers based on limited geographic studies, etc., but when I see the maps it doesn't seem they have done this, as the study covers the complete theatre of war and compiles hard data from various sources. Peer review will sift through it.

            PS....The vatican discovering four saviors would be old news to liberals, they have been discovering new ones every four years. [wink]

             
          • Bronco posted at 12:09 pm on Sun, Mar 3, 2013.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            Pete, the gospels were written 70 to 160 years after the supposed death of Jesus and those are taken as factual by a large group of people who gain credibility by their veracity. Do Jews believe in the gospels?

            When the numbers become absurd, the respect and gratitude for those who actually suffered and died during that horrible episode in our history are diminished. It would be like a new discovery of gospels that were hidden in the vaults of Vatican City revealing that there were four Saviors instead of one...Or, that there wasn't even one, as many believe.

             
          • Transparency posted at 12:03 pm on Sun, Mar 3, 2013.

            Transparency Posts: 87

            Has it ever dawned on you, Frank, that when it comes to money and influence, "if you can't beat them, join them."

            Debt, taxes and gun control all fall under that umbrella.

            We have become a nation of media intimidated wimps. Early in WWII, the Jews cooperated with their government, just as Americans do today. Probably with the same outcome.

            To remain above ground, 'trust no-one'.

             
          • Pete posted at 9:44 am on Sun, Mar 3, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Bronco posted at 7:59 pm on Sat, Mar 2, 2013

            Maybe you should read before you formulate one or your patented knee-jerk responses?

            "As early as 1933, at the start of Hitler’s reign, the Third Reich established about 110 camps specifically designed to imprison some 10,000 political opponents and others, the researchers found. As Germany invaded and began occupying European neighbors, the use of camps and ghettos was expanded to confine and sometimes kill not only Jews but also homosexuals, Gypsies, Poles, Russians and many other ethnic groups in Eastern Europe. The camps and ghettos varied enormously in their mission, organization and size, depending on the Nazis’ needs, the researchers have found."

            "But as few as a dozen prisoners worked at one of the smallest camps, the München-Schwabing site in Germany. Small groups of prisoners were sent there from the Dachau concentration camp under armed guard. They were reportedly whipped and ordered to do manual labor at the home of a fervent Nazi patron known as “Sister Pia,” cleaning her house, tending her garden and even building children’s toys for her."

            I'm not going to do the math for you or try and explain the population density of say....Belgium (roughly 10,000 sq. mi) vs. Flathead County. I'm sure you can write the Holocaust Museum and present your own research. It is pretty funny though, to see the same person who argued the verasity of 2 billion year old evolutionary "evidence" complain about 73 year old evidence. What a difference a day makes.

             
          • Bronco posted at 7:59 pm on Sat, Mar 2, 2013.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            Pete:
            "The Holocaust Just Got More Shocking"
            -----------------
            Horrible stuff. Where did they get all those people (15-20 million)? Pre-War population of Jews in Europe has been estimated between 7 million and 8 million.(That number is doubled by the Israeli Bureau of Statistics) And two million of those escaped. This means that Non-Jews were in the majority of people slaughtered by the Nazis?
            And 42,500 concentration camps and ghettos? Incredible.That's one for every 16 sq. miles. That would mean Flathead county could fit over 312 concentration camps or ghettos within its borders.
            Still, that's 470 victims per camp or, 147,000 people in the Flathead alone...or roughly 1.5 times its current population. And we're just now getting the figures in 73 years later.

            I often wonder how so many people could be convinced to pull off something so horrific and of this magnitude without question.

             
          • kohana posted at 6:18 pm on Sat, Mar 2, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            For our history challenged readers from The American Spectator:

            Special Report

            What Did Arafat Get for Killing U.S. Diplomats?

            By Andrew B. Wilson on 3.1.13 @ 6:12AM

            Only fame, fortune, dozens of trips to the White House, and a Nobel Peace Prize.
            History is sometimes made in the unmaking — with some of the critical facts in an appalling event being hurriedly and knowingly swept under a rug like so many pieces of broken glass. This weekend marks the 40th anniversary of such an event in the making and masking of history.

            In the early evening of March 1, 1973 (like today, a Friday), eight gunmen from the Black September Organization — the same terrorist group which had created havoc six months earlier at the 1972 Munich Olympics — stormed the Saudi Arabian embassy in Khartoum where a going-away party was being held for George Curtis Moore, second-ranking officer at the U.S. embassy in the Sudan.

            Following an initial burst of gunfire, they took five hostages — a Belgian, a Saudi, a Jordanian, and two Americans — Moore and Cleo Allen Noel, Jr., the newly appointed American ambassador to the Sudan.

            Twenty-six hours of intense negotiations followed between the gunmen and Sudanese authorities. The gunmen sent out a long list of provocative demands, which included the freeing from Jordanian captivity of Abu Daoud, a leader of the Black September Organization (BSO); the freeing of Sirhan Sirhan, Robert Kennedy’s killer, from a California prison; the freeing of members of the terrorist Baader-Meinhof gang held in Germany; and the freeing of “Palestinian women in prison in Israel.”

            On March 2, President Nixon announced that he would not negotiate with terrorists for the release of diplomats.

            Later that day, after nightfall, the terrorists executed the three westerners — Noel, Moore, and Guy Eid, chargé d’affaires at the Belgian embassy. They were lined up against a wall in the basement of the embassy and gunned down in a hail of automatic weapons fire. Reportedly, the gunmen shot first for sport — aiming at their feet and legs — before aiming to kill.

            Ironically, far from condemning the PLO, Moore held strongly pro-Arab, anti-Israeli views — believing that “the Arabs had legitimate grievances and were, in general, more wronged by Israel than wrong-doing against it.” Arab terrorists have often targeted the most pro-Arab Americans — as witness the recent slaying of Ambassador Christopher Stevens in Benghazi, Libya.
            Like the slayings of Stevens and three other Americans on the night of September 11/12, 2012, the assassination of Moore and Ambassador Noel was front-page news in the United States for a week or more.

            What was missing then (as in the more recent catastrophe) was an honest account from the U.S. government of what happened.

            It was not until the release of the summary portion of a long-classified U.S. State Department document in May 2006 that the real truth emerged. Written soon after the event, this document — entitled “The Seizure of the Saudi Arabian Embassy in Khartoum” — reached the unambiguous conclusion:

            The Khartoum operation was planned and carried out with the full knowledge and personal approval of Yasser Arafat, Chairman of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), and head of Fatah. Fatah representatives based in Khartoum participated in the attack, using a Fatah vehicle to transport the terrorists to the Saudi Arabian Embassy.

            Initially, the main objective of the attack appeared to be to secure the release of Fatah / BSO leader Mohammed Awadh (Abu Daoud) from Jordanian captivity. Information acquired subsequently reveals that the Fatah/BSO leaders did not expect Awadh (Daoud) to be freed, and indicates that one of the primary goals of the operation was to strike at the United States because of its efforts to achieve a Middle East peace settlement which many Arabs believe would be inimical to Palestinian interests.

            … The terrorists extended their deadlines three times, but when they became convinced that their demands would not be met and after they reportedly had received orders from Fatah headquarters in Beirut, they killed the two United States officials and the Belgian chargé. Thirty-four hours later, upon receipt of orders from Yasser Arafat in Beirut to surrender, the terrorists released their other hostages unharmed and surrendered to Sudanese authorities.

            The Khartoum operation again demonstrated the ability of the BSO to strike where least expected. The open participation of Fatah representatives in Khartoum in the attack provides further evidence of the Fatah / BSO relationship. The emergence of the United States as a primary Fedayeen target indicates a serious threat of further incidents similar to that of Khartoum.

            Despite the certain knowledge of his guilt displayed in the long-hidden U.S. State Department document, Arafat went from strength to strength following the murders that he had ordered in Khartoum — and he did so with the tacit support of President Richard Nixon and his National Security Adviser (and soon-to-be Secretary of State) Henry Kissinger. That set the pattern for three decades to come, or until Arafat’s death on Nov. 11, 2004:

            With little dissent, the PLO leader was lionized by most of the world media as an Arab “Moses” struggling to lead his people to the promised land. He became a welcome guest in presidential palaces and residences around the world — most especially including the White House. Time magazine called Arafat the Clinton administration’s “Most Frequent Visitor — President Clinton has held more tete-a-tetes with the Palestinian leader than any other world leader during his eight years in office.” Arafat also became a near-billionaire (according to his former finance minister, more than $900 million of western aid money had gone missing) — cited by Forbes magazine as one of the world’s wealthiest leaders.

            Neither Nixon (then up to his neck in alligators as a result of the Watergate scandal) nor the ever ambitious and opportunistic Kissinger ever came close to denouncing Arafat for his role in ordering the execution of U.S. diplomats. To call the leader of the PLO out for the murders of an American ambassador and his top assistant would have terminated any possibility of future relations with the murderer and his followers.

            Later on in 1973, as Kissinger became secretary of state as well as national security adviser, he was obviously keen to keep open all channels of communication with the Arab world, including relations with Arafat — both because of the Yom Kipper War and, tied to that, the OPEC oil embargo, which soon caused gas prices in the U.S. to skyrocket and the U.S. to tumble into what was then the worst recession in post-World War II history. As the world’s biggest oil exporter, Saudi Arabia was one of Arafat’s strongest supporters.

            Arafat made his first visit to the United States (an event that could not have happened without State Department approval) in November of 1974, and he made the most of it — in terms of thumbing his nose at the U.S.

            Wearing a sidearm (or at least an empty holster; stories vary) and accompanied by several of the participants in the Khartoum operation, Arafat made his famous debut at the United Nations in New York on November 13 — using the occasion to denounce Zionism as racism.

            And it is not as though Arafat and the various branches of the PLO under his command had been staying quiet and behaving well between the time of the murders in Khartoum and Arafat’s appearance at the UN.

            In May 1974, Palestinian terrorists entered Israel from Lebanon and took over a high school in the town of Maalot, six miles south of border — killing 22 children (mostly 15-year-old girls) with grenades and automatic weapons and injuring many more. Another similar attack a month earlier killed 18 people in the town of Kiryat Shmona.

            THERE WAS AT LEAST ONE person who was intimately involved in tracking the events in Khartoum who was outraged by the decades-long cover-up that followed. His name is James J. Welsh and he contacted me after reading a recent article of mine in TAS entitled “Obama Fiddled … While Benghazi burned … and a U.S. election approached.”
            Now 66-years old and running a grocery store in the coastal resort town of Manzanita in northern Oregon, Welsh still seethes with indignation over what happened inside the Nixon administration over that lost weekend of 40 years ago.

            In achieving a top security clearance as a result of his knowledge of Arabic and his skill as a communications technician, Welsh served in the U.S. Navy as a foreign language specialist assigned to the National Security Agency (NSA) to intercept and analyze foreign radio transmissions in the Middle East.

            From 1969 to 1972 he worked at an intercept site just outside of Nicosia, Cyprus, and from then until 1974 he worked at NSA headquarters at Fort Meade near Washington, D.C. — supporting his old colleagues back in Cyprus and elsewhere in the Middle East.
            In a series of interviews lasting over eight hours, Welsh told me this story of what happened between Thursday, Feb. 28 — the day before the takeover of the Saudi Embassy — and Monday, March 4, when different agencies in the U.S. government were just beginning to take stock of Saturday night’s disaster in Khartoum.

            This is the first part of his story:

            Late in the morning on Thursday, the teletype machine at his office at NSA headquarters clattered with the receipt of a printed message from an old colleague at the listening post in Cyprus.

            “This is Mike,” the message said.
            “What’s up?” Welsh tapped back in reply.
            “I’ve got an intercept of Arafat in Beirut talking to Abu Jihad (a top Black September operative) in Khartoum, and it looks big,” Mike answered, saying that he was able to recognize Arafat’s voice.

            As their typed conversation continued, Welsh learned that eight members of BSO — the same number of terrorists who had been dispatched in 1972 to go to Munich — had assembled in Khartoum and were awaiting Arafat’s instructions on when to strike at the target (still unknown to the NSA).

            When he had gathered all he could from ‘Mike,’ Welsh tore the paper from the machine and took it to his supervisor. The information was passed immediately through the chain of command at NSA. Before the end of the working day, Welsh and others at the agency sent out a Flash (top priority) message to the U.S. Embassy Khartoum via the State Department, as required by inter-agency protocol, warning the embassy of the imminent danger of an assault from Black September.

            Knowing he had the next day off, Welsh went to bed that night feeling that intercepted communication might have come just in time to avert a disaster.

            Not so, however. Welsh received an urgent call the next morning telling him to “turn on the television set” — and then get back to the office asap. The television news was all about the capture of the U.S. diplomats in Khartoum by same terrorist organization that had captured and eventually killed 11 members of the Israeli team at the summer Olympics in Munich.

            Inexplicably, it turned out that a watch officer at the State Department had downgraded the NSA message to the embassy in Khartoum from the highest urgency to a routine cable. As such, it went slow-delivery and did not arrive until the day after the death of the diplomats.

            On Monday morning, Welsh said, “the buzz at the NSA” was that the agency’s director (Gen. Samuel C. Phillips) had headed over to the State Department “steaming mad” about the department’s failure to do its job in sounding the alarm in a timely fashion.
            But upon the general’s return, Welsh and others in the agency were shocked to hear their director had come back from the State Department in a morose and chastened state. Said Welsh: “The word came down that whatever happened to squelch the warning, that issue was over: We’re not going to talk about it anymore.”

            When Welsh suggested to a supervisor that it would be worth taking the issue to Congress, he was told that if he (as a naval enlisted man) dared to suggest any such thing again, he would be put out to sea on “a fleet oiler.” Translation: He would lose his top secret clearance and be sent back to the navy doing the most menial of tasks, such as throwing fuel lines from one ship to another.

            A week or so later, Welch was told — to his utter amazement and disbelief — that there was nothing of interest on the tape that had been forwarded from the intercept station in Cyprus. He thought to himself: “Am I supposed to believe that everything I heard the day before the attack was a total fantasy — and, coincidentally, it all just turned out to be true?” To this day, the tape has never surfaced.

            Returning to civilian life a year later, he stayed silent for 27 years. But in seeing Arafat reach something of an apotheosis during Clinton’s administration, he found he no longer hold his tongue.

            In interviews with sympathetic segments of the news media (such as the Israeli newspaper Haaretz) and in letters to Congress, Welsh denounced the failure on the part of successive U.S. administrations to acknowledge the truth about Arafat. He told one reporter: “There are limits to which foreign policy issues should require a man to lower himself. Shaking the hand of a murderer of a U.S. ambassador is such a case. Any peace based upon that hand is a delusion.”

            Today he notes two overriding similarities between the tragic events in Benghazi and Khartoum.

            One is the simple fact of a State Department and White House cover-up driven by political considerations and the desire to hide mistakes.

            And, in his words, the second is “the whole continuing idea that the Palestinians and Arabs have to be given a pass on everything they do — no matter how bad it is — just because they are such poor victims.”

            About the Author
            Andrew B. Wilson, a frequent contributor to The American Spectator, writes from St. Louis.
            http://spectator.org/archives/2013/03/01/what-did-arafat-get-for-killin

             
          • mooseberryinn posted at 4:49 pm on Sat, Mar 2, 2013.

            mooseberryinn Posts: 2685

            IABD - Hilarious - I guess you score in the idiot range. I see you have retained a great deal of the King Obama propaganda effort. Good going there. keep practicing your reading skills.

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 3:55 pm on Sat, Mar 2, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            Pete posted at 2:44 pm on Sat, Mar 2, 2013.

            Pete- "From what I can tell, most morons don't generally rely on intellectual/rational encouragement but rather emotional intensity and the need to "belong". Usually trying to make up for a deficit of good parenting."

            IABD- The army will accept a moron under the classification of mild retardation and may find use for them even as gun toting soldiers e.g. Forrest Gump ...The NRA will accept GOP morons as well even if they were classified 4F chickenhawk e.g. Ted Nugent.

            Mental deficiency used to be divided into the following sub-classifications, but these labels began to be abused by the public and are now largely obsolete: Borderline Deficiency (IQ 70-80), Moron (IQ 50-69), Imbecile (IQ 20-49) and Idiot (below 20). Mental deficiency is now generally called mental retardation.
            http://www.assessmentpsychology.com/iqclassifications.htm

             
          • Pete posted at 2:47 pm on Sat, Mar 2, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Hail Armageddon
            By Charles Krauthammer, Published: February 28
            “The worst-case scenario for us,” a leading anti-budget-cuts lobbyist told The Post, “is the sequester hits and nothing bad really happens.”

            Think about that. Worst case? That a government drowning in debt should cut back by 2.2 percent — and the country survives. That a government now borrowing 35 cents of every dollar it spends reduces that borrowing by two cents “and nothing bad really happens.” Oh, the humanity!

            A normal citizen might think this a good thing. For reactionary liberalism, however, whatever sum our ever-inflating government happens to spend today (now double what Bill Clinton spent in his last year) is the Platonic ideal — the reduction of which, however minuscule, is a national calamity.

            Or damn well should be. Otherwise, people might get the idea that we can shrink government and live on.

            Hence the president’s message. If the “sequestration” — automatic spending cuts — goes into effect, the skies will fall. Plane travel jeopardized, carrier groups beached, teachers furloughed. And a shortage of junk-touching TSA agents.

            The Obama administration has every incentive to make the sky fall, lest we suffer that terrible calamity — cuts the nation survives. Are they threatening to pare back consultants, conferences, travel and other nonessential fluff? Hardly. It shall be air-traffic control. Meat inspection. Weather forecasting.

            A 2011 Government Accountability Office report gave a sampling of the vastness of what could be cut, consolidated and rationalized in Washington: 44 overlapping job training programs, 18 for nutrition assistance, 82 (!) on teacher quality, 56 dealing with financial literacy, more than 20 for homelessness, etc. Total annual cost: $100 billion-$200 billion, about two to five times the entire domestic sequester.

            Are these on the chopping block? No sir. It’s firemen first. That’s the phrase coined in 1976 by legendary Washington Monthly editor Charlie Peters to describe the way government functionaries beat back budget cuts. Dare suggest a nick in the city budget, and the mayor immediately shuts down the firehouse. The DMV back office, stacked with nepotistic incompetents, remains intact. Shrink it and no one would notice. Sell the firetruck — the people scream and the city council falls silent about any future cuts.

            After all, the sequester is just one-half of 1 percent of GDP. It amounts to 1.4 cents on the dollar of nondefense spending, 2 cents overall.

            Because of this year’s payroll tax increase, millions of American workers have had to tighten their belts by precisely 2 percent. They found a way. Washington, spending $3.8 trillion, cannot? If so, we might as well declare bankruptcy now and save the attorneys’ fees.

            The problem with sequestration, of course, is that the cuts are across the board and do not allow money to move between accounts. It’s dumb because it doesn’t discriminate.

            Fine. Then change the law. That’s why we have a Congress. Discriminate. Prioritize. That’s why we have budgets. Except that the Democratic Senate hasn’t passed one in four years. And the White House, which proposed the sequester in the first place, had 18 months to establish rational priorities among accounts — and did nothing.

            When the GOP House passed an alternative that cut where the real money is — entitlement spending — President Obama threatened a veto. Meaning, he would have insisted that the sequester go into effect — the very same sequester he now tells us will bring on Armageddon.

            Good grief. The entire sequester would have reduced last year’s deficit from $1.33 trillion to $1.24 trillion. A fraction of a fraction. Nonetheless, insists Obama, such a cut is intolerable. It has to be “balanced” — i.e., largely replaced — by yet more taxes.

            Which demonstrates that, for Obama, this is not about deficit reduction, which interests him not at all. The purpose is purely political: to complete his Election Day victory by breaking the Republican opposition.

            At the fiscal cliff, Obama broke — and split — the Republicans on taxes. With the sequester, he intends to break them on spending. Make the cuts as painful as possible, and watch the Republicans come crawling for a “balanced” (i.e., tax-hiking) deal.

            In the past two years, House Republicans stopped cold Obama’s left-liberal agenda. Break them now, and the road is open to resume enactment of the expansive, entitlement-state liberalism that Obama proclaimed in his second inaugural address.

            But he cannot win if “nothing bad really happens.” Indeed, he’d look both foolish and cynical for having cried wolf.

            Obama’s incentive to deliberately make the most painful and socially disruptive cuts possible (say, oh, releasing illegal immigrants from prison) is enormous. And alarming.

            Hail Armageddon.

             
          • Pete posted at 2:46 pm on Sat, Mar 2, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152


            BTW...did you see this?

            "The Holocaust Just Got More Shocking"

            http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/03/sunday-review/the-holocaust-just-got-more-shocking.html?_r=0&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1362236748-5jy69MPKaw0svfJWxthXZQ

             
          • Pete posted at 2:44 pm on Sat, Mar 2, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Rob123 posted at 6:14 am on Sat, Mar 2, 2013

            From what I can tell, most morons don't generally rely on intellectual/rational encouragement but rather emotional intensity and the need to "belong". Usually trying to make up for a deficit of good parenting.

            At any rate, my point invalidates the "natural selection" process, by either nature or "supremists" of one persuasion of another, (Even though I thought Jesse Owens had already done that) by changing the criteria by which we evaluate each other.

             
          • Bronco posted at 1:49 pm on Sat, Mar 2, 2013.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            HTC: @Bronco...You're the last person who should be questioning others' intellectual abilities.
            -------------------
            How Right you are! You worship Rush because he made a lot of money off of fear- and hate-mongering the uninformed, easily duped, folks of low intelligence who also share your world views. So does Hannity and Glenn Beckk. It's not WHAT they do that's important to you; it's what they Make$$$. That makes them smart in your view.

            Yep. You're the Alpha and I'm the Omega. You're always the FIRST guy who questions others' intellectual abilities. Here's a bit of advice from the Omega (guy who gets in the last word): Buy or rent some casters and drag you big head in for some counseling.

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 11:55 am on Sat, Mar 2, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            Strange as it seems but if President John F. Kennedy had not been assassinated when he was, the NAWAPA (North American Water and Power Administration) plan for his 'New Frontier' administration would have been signed into law in 1964. The war in Viet Nam put that plan on hold for awhile, and was deemed too costly and unfeasible. Now with oil development schemes such as the Keystone pipeline, the Communist LaRouche globalist strategy is to resurrect NAWAPA with the same grandiose scheme of creating jobs while ignoring any environmental consequences.

            The Army Corps of Engineers under Eisenhower conceived of the plan 10 years earlier. The plan included building the Rocky Mountain Trench (about 500 miles long) which would have included Flathead Lake on it's south end. If the plan ever went into construction, everyone in the Flathead would have been forced to relocate. There have been a few times where we have heard the Army Corps of Engineers state that no one should be living in the flood plain areas of this valley, and even wanted Evergreen to remove their flood dykes along the Flathead River.

            If the Rocky Mountain Trench as proposed were built, it would raise Flathead Lake at least 300 feet, and 99% of the local population's property would be under water. However, if you are a wealthy Google billionaire type you could always build a mansion on a 300 foot rock overlooking Flathead Lake's west shore, drill though several hundred feet of rock for your water and have future lake front property.

            http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/01/17149564-state-department-admits-keystone-environmental-impact-but-says-theres-no-better-way?lite

             
          • Rob123 posted at 11:15 am on Sat, Mar 2, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6597

            HTC: "With the advent of cheap and affordable civilian space launch vehicles, we'll soon be able to affordably launch the ceramic waste into space, never to be seen again."

            Ah, 'what if' our Missing Link happens to see such a package floating by, and stops to investigate it? Any such discovery less than a million years from now could kill them? Then we would never know our true origins? Just a thought........and probably already contained in some SciFy novel......[wink][sad]

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 11:06 am on Sat, Mar 2, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            Americans endure bigger income cut than government says it can handle
            Published March 01, 2013

            Americans are a lot better at belt-tightening than the people they send to Washington.

            As Americans’ income fell by 3.6 percent in January, President Obama and Congressional leaders were warning of the dire consequences of sequester, the budgetary booby trap that forces cuts of as little as a third of that from the mammoth federal spending plan. Working stiffs sucked it up and absorbed the biggest monthly drop in income in 20 years, while the elected officials insisted that the federal budget had no fat to trim.

            Financial planning experts say if Americans can take such a big bite out of their paychecks, Washington should be able to weather a similar cut, percentage-wise.


            “If you compare [the sequester cuts] to sacrifices a regular family has had to make, you’re talking about the money you find in your couch cushions.”
            - Larry Winget, best-selling author


            “If you compare [the sequester cuts] to sacrifices a regular family has had to make, you’re talking about the money you find in your couch cushions,” said Larry Winget, the best-selling author of “You’re Broke Because You Want to Be.”

            “When regular folks need to cut the household budget, they get rid of their toys, their cable TV, eating out,” Winget continued. “If they can make those kind of cuts, the federal government ought to be able to.”

            The sequester cuts were put in place more than a year ago as a means of forcing lawmakers to come up with a better cost-saving solution. President Obama famously said during a debate with Mitt Romney that they would “never happen.” But as the deadline drew near and it became clear that no deal was in the offing to head off the cuts, sober warnings emerged from the nation’s capitol. Some 800,000 Pentagon workers would be furloughed. Thousands of illegal aliens would have to be freed. Teachers and firefighters would be laid off.

            "These cuts are wrong," President Obama said this week, calling sequester a "dumb way" to make cuts which amount to 2.4 percent or 1.3 percent of the $3.5 trillion federal budget, depending on which calculation is being used.

            The sequester cuts, which hit defense hardest but also take a bite out of discretionary spending including foreign aid and the budget of most federal agencies, add up to $85 billion when pro-rated over a full year. But since the government operates on a fiscal year, actual spending will only fall by $44 billion this year, according to the Congressional Budget.

            Financial expert and television personality Ben Stein said Washington’s dysfunction is best illustrated by the fact lawmakers had a year and a half to find a more gentle way to make the cuts, but couldn’t agree. Now the spending cuts are being imposed with a sledge hammer instead of a scalpel, he said.

            “The problem is not the cuts, the problem is the meat-cleaver way it was done,” Stein told FoxNews.com. “We expect a LOT more care from our legislators and our president.”

            Heritage Foundation President-elect Jim DeMint, the former South Carolina senator and fiscal hawk, wrote Friday that the White House is making it “seem like sequestration means the end of the world. “ But given that the federal budget nearly doubled to $3.5 trillion from $2 trillion between 2002 and 2012, and will swell to $6 trillion over the next decade, DeMint said the cuts don’t go nearly far enough.

            “The sequester barely taps the brakes on this runaway spending,” DeMint wrote.

            But the spending cuts Americans are facing at home are truly painful. The Commerce Department’s announcement on Friday verified what working Americans noticed in January, starting with the expiration of the payroll tax holiday, which equated to a 2.2 percent pay cut for most employees. A chronically struggling economy further eroded incomes even as heating bills, gas prices and food costs continued to rise. The falling income figures are expected to affect spending data through the first half of the year as households adjust to smaller paychecks.

            Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., said the federal government should follow the lead of Americans, who are taking thinner wallets in stride.

            “It’ absurd to think that the government cannot get by with a little more than a 2 percent reduction in spending when every working American had to figure out how to make do with 2 percent less in their paychecks just last month," McConnell said.

            http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/03/01/americans-absorb-36-percent-pay-cut-while-washington-fights-over-sequester-647959305/#ixzz2MPHxz2qY

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 10:56 am on Sat, Mar 2, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            Bronco posted at 9:25 pm on Fri, Mar 1, 2013

            You're the last person who should be questioning others' intellectual abilities.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 10:51 am on Sat, Mar 2, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            Rob123: Yes, on paper. The actual, physical goop still sits around, waiting for some money and expertise.

            HTC: Actually, the French, who depend on nuclear power for more than 85% of their electrical energy, have been doing it for quite some time. It's quite well proven and affordable; in fact, they're so good at recovering unspent fuel, that it's dramatically lowered their operating costs.

            With the advent of cheap and affordable civilian space launch vehicles, we'll soon be able to affordably launch the ceramic waste into space, never to be seen again.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 10:36 am on Sat, Mar 2, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6597

            http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/02/us/us-report-sees-no-environmental-bar-to-keystone-pipeline.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20130302&_r=0

            Report May Ease Path for New Pipeline
            By JOHN M. BRODER
            Published: March 1, 2013

            WASHINGTON — The State Department issued a revised environmental impact statement for the 1,700-mile Keystone XL pipeline on Friday that makes no recommendation about whether the project should be built but presents no conclusive environmental reason it should not be.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 10:33 am on Sat, Mar 2, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6597

            Rob123: I'm all for Nuclear AS SOON AS the Waste problem is addressed.
            HTC: It already has been addressed.
            -----------------------------------------------------
            Yes, on paper. The actual, physical goop still sits around, waiting for some money and expertise.
            ____________________________________________________________________________
            HTC: BTW, you forgot to mention that Germany has has to build many new gas-fired power plants which can generate power when their solar panels can't.

            Actually, their domestic fracking attempts haven't been paying off, but with lots of coal, they are building coal fired plants-to the horror of the Green Left- but with lots of scrubbers and such.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 9:35 am on Sat, Mar 2, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            Rob123: I'm all for Nuclear AS SOON AS the Waste problem is addressed.

            HTC: It already has been addressed. We now have the ability to recycle spent fuel rods almost infinitely, until there's nothing but low level, short half life radioactive isotopes left in them. These are then converted to ceramics which are impervious to leaching by fluids and which can be safely stored in dump sites such as the one that Obama shuttered upon first becoming president, after we and the nuclear power generators spent billions building it.

            Meanwhile, we now have reactors around the country where special measures are being taken to cool the pools which hold their spent fuel rods and which are literally boiling in some cases due to spontaneous low-level fission which is occurring because of overcrowding of spent rods since they have no where to take them.

            The rods are also vulnerable to theft and perfect material for a so-called dirty bomb.

            Once again, our president's completely wrong-headed energy policies are ruinous AND dangerous.

            BTW, you forgot to mention that Germany has has to build many new gas-fired power plants which can generate power when their solar panels can't. The fact that going solar or wind requires twice the buildout, one for the 'alternative' energy source and the other a conventional plant to produce power when the other can't, is typically overlooked in all the puff pieces which praise these 'green' energy 'solutions.'

             
          • Rob123 posted at 8:48 am on Sat, Mar 2, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6597

            HighTechCowboy posted at 8:20 am on Sat, Mar 2, 2013.

            You didn't mention Nuclear Waste disposal? Nor did you hold up, as an example, Germany's massive push into personal & corporate, roof top Solar Panels and the fact that, weather permitting, it is now generating around 50% of it's domestic needs using solar. With it's elimination of Nuclear Energy, it has certainly cut into it's ability to be the Huge Exporter of electricity that it was, but the PIIGS weren't paying their bills.......and the Earthquake in Japan gave them cover to pull the plug?

            I'm all for Nuclear AS SOON AS the Waste problem is addressed.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:20 am on Sat, Mar 2, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            IABD: Fracked Gas Won't Solve Energy Crunch: Report

            HTC: Mr. Hughes makes the big mistake of using U.S. Dept. of Energy (EIA) data as reference points. That data has long ago been jacked by "green energy" types and massaged to suit their ideology.

            For example, the EIA claims that oil production will peak at 7.5mbd in 2019 and then decline after that. The reality is that we're already at that rate of production and it's still skyrocketing.

            Unfortunately, the fossil fuel debate is heavily politicized and a lot of 'data' has been produced which has been intentionally skewed to support a particular ideology. Mr. Hughes developed his propaganda piece for the progressive environmental group Post Carbon Institute. It is clearly written with a strong bias against fossil fuels and, in particular, deep horizontal drilling and fracking which have robbed the enviroweenies of their "peak oil" club which they've used effectively to waste tens of billions of taxpayer dollars on their "green energy" mythology.

            Thanks to this modern technology, major plays are being discovered virtually everywhere around the world; hence, "peak oil" keeps moving further out with every month of new exploration. Some estimates now indicate that the world has over 250 years worth of natural gas, thanks to improved technology which continues to get better and cheaper over time.

            Of course, fossil fuels are definitely a finite resource and we need to be reasonably conservative in their use as we develop viable alternative sources of energy, in particular nuclear energy. To do that, we need to replace Obama and his type who have totally the wrong view of the various alternative energy sources' viabilities.

            For example, nuclear is the only viable, on-demand alternative to power generation that we have and, while Obama publicly claims that we need to include it in our alternative energy future, he's done everything to prevent new nuclear power plant construction and to make it as prohibitively expensive as possible. Furthermore, he has wasted tens of billions of dollars on solar and wind development and research, monies which would have been much better spent on nuclear research and development.

            As another example of their wrong-headedness, Obama and the enviro-lobby continue to promote electric cars, even though they are actually less energy efficient per mile driven than a modern high efficiency gasoline engine. Their strategy actually increases consumption instead. Only an abundance of nuclear power would make electric cars a good way to reduce fossil fuel use; yet, Obama is doing all he can to prevent the expansion of nuclear energy.

            They simply have no cohesive, fact-based and practical solution for our long term energy needs and continue to was time and billions of dollars that could and should be better spent elsewhere. And so, much of their message continues to be a focus on "conservation."

            But what has conservation done for the typical middle class household?

            U.S. per capita energy consumption is down 20% from its high in 1976; yet, energy costs today consume a much bigger part of the the middle class household's budget than ever before and Obama and his kind want even higher energy prices to force even more conservation (so much for being the party of the little guy.) So far, we're only conserving our way into middle class bankruptcy.

            Yes, we will eventually run out of fossil fuels and need to be addressing our long term energy needs; however, Obama and his kind are precisely the wrong people to be leading that effort.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 6:14 am on Sat, Mar 2, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6597

            Pete: If it is true (putting aside my doubts) isn't it possible that man is in the process of stunting his own development?
            HTC: There are a number of neuropsychologists and evolutionary neurologists who believe that the answer to your question is an emphatic "YES!"
            -----------------------------------------------
            You two are treading into some murky waters here, and really need to be careful if you are actually trying to perform an inquiry. Until Google or Apple comes up with an App for this, which explains the complete history, over time, of the Human Race, for a mere $5.99 a month for life per personal device, one should probably start with Plato's "Atlantis" or the Old Testaments "Original Sin" followed by Carl Jung's "Red Book". Many, many more stories out there but remember, in this neck of the woods over the past 25 years a whole bunch of knuckle dragging "Aryan Race" bozos have moved here, and have bought into a huge myth that has no basis using DNA but a large library of propaganda and lies. Be careful, as one doesn't want to encourage these morons.

             
          • mooseberryinn posted at 10:53 pm on Fri, Mar 1, 2013.

            mooseberryinn Posts: 2685

            IABD - It would appear you need a "power flush".

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 10:40 pm on Fri, Mar 1, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkKadmcQIAc

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 9:46 pm on Fri, Mar 1, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            Bill C-383: A British Imperial Plot to Kill NAWAPA and your Future
            A youtube media by the LaRouche Communist Party of Canada 2/27/13

            IABD- The commies are now complaining no differently than the Libertarians in the US. The neoconservative idiots still want the NAWAPA water pipeline to export Alaskan and Canadian water to the United States and Mexico. The project would require many more dams built while combining Canada, United States and Mexico into one country, as per Bush's New World Order mandate. The Keystone pipeline would apparently require an occasional power flush..

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6aO8HbdA00

             
          • Bronco posted at 9:25 pm on Fri, Mar 1, 2013.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            HTC, you think Rush can teach us how to lose 2,471 sponsors in 365 days? Ask him, please. That is if you are on speaking terms with your heroes.

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 7:34 pm on Fri, Mar 1, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=Xg4VNGFP6qE&NR=1

             
          • Rob123 posted at 6:46 pm on Fri, Mar 1, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6597

            It's a beautiful day posted at 5:55 pm on Fri, Mar 1, 2013.
            Posts: 534
            Fracked Gas Won't Solve Energy Crunch: Report

            Of course it won't. Just like adding 1.8 Million Jobs in an economy that adds 3.4 Million new workers doesn't solve the employment mess. But it helps, IMHO. Now we just need to get it right.
            -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            HTC: "But science doesn't offer us a way to find absolute truth; rather, it can get us close but there is never any way to prove that we're not still missing something in our understanding."

            Semantics? Is your "absolute truth" actually a "Unified theory of everything"? A big difference, to this old Catholic Boy. Et tu? I think of Hegel, and how close he got, for that time in space. The dot has moved, but is that what you are hinting at?

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 5:55 pm on Fri, Mar 1, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            Fracked Gas Won't Solve Energy Crunch: Report

            http://thetyee.ca/News/2013/02/23/David-Hughes-Fracking-Report/

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 5:34 pm on Fri, Mar 1, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            IABD: http://www.resilience.org/stories/2011-11-18/fracking-and-quaking-theyre-linked

            HTC: Utter bull$hit. Now try to find a peer-reviewed article in a scientific journal which links the two.

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 5:32 pm on Fri, Mar 1, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            I assume you must be having trouble with your remote control again. Why not simply leave the channel on FOXNEWS 24/7 and blame the Democrats? This will make you appear more intelligunt with your peer group.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 5:24 pm on Fri, Mar 1, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            Bronco: If you don't think education matters, you probably get your information from these three guys...

            College dropouts: Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Glenn Beck.

            HTC: Interesting that all three men make FAR more money than the overwhelming majority of people with a college education or even advanced degrees. In fact, the world's list of dropout billionaires is like Bill Gates (Microsoft), Larry Ellison (Oracle), Michael Dell (Dell Computer), etc. is quite lengthy.

            I guess being 'stupid' rather than being 'educated' is the key to wealth?

            Many of the world's most prolific inventors and many of its greatest breakthrough scientific findings were made by college dropouts or even those who never went to college.

            Of course, anyone who knows anything about such things knows that education and intelligence and wisdom are not the same things; in fact, many VERY intelligent people are just too smart for a formal higher education and too bored by it to pursue one.

            But to the nondiscerning progressive mind, truth is judged by the source, not content, just as 'intelligence' is measure by papers hanging on a wall. Simplistic standards for simple minds.

            Bronco: Rachel Maddow: Standford University, BA in Public Policy. Oxford University, PHD in Political Science.

            HTC: Is that supposed to be impressive for some reason? Some of the least discerning and logical thinkers I've ever known and worked with had PhDs in some liberal arts field. There's a reason for the old joke that it stands for "Piled Higher and Deeper."

            Now advanced degrees in engineering or the sciences; well, that's a whole different matter as most doctoral programs in those subjects won't end up rewarding those who seek to succeed based on their race, gender or political correctness. They generally can't be fooled by a good memory either.

            Our president is probably one of those "affirmative action" type grads who couldn't hold is own in a debat with Limbaugh, Hannity or Beck. He's proven consistently that he knows jack about economics or even leadership and has now painted himself into a difficult spot with all the fear-mongering he did about what would happen if sequestration wasn't prevented.

            Now he's got two choices: Either cut the waste and nonessential discretionary spending in future spending which meets the legal target set by law, or cut essential services in such a way as to induce as much pain as possible for as many Americans as possible, in order to 'prove' that his fear-mongering was warranted.

            If he does the former, he gives away his and his party's game plan and proves himself and his party to be the liars and manipulators that discerning voters know them to be. If he does the latter, he proves himself to be an evil ideologue who pretends to be for the little guy while, in fact, he's willing to sacrifice the little guy in order to serve his evil Marxist agenda.

            The "smartest man in the room" is now stuck in his own web of deceit.

            Interesting that your 'brilliant' Rachel Maddow can't see through his lies and deceit, but the college dropouts can.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 4:54 pm on Fri, Mar 1, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            Bronco: Sequester: Can we call it what it really is? Paying for GW Bush' two wars.

            HTC: I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.

            First of all, sequestration is really only a slowing of the growth of federal spending which still increases under sequestration, but just not as quickly as it would have otherwise. Since that reality means that federal spending is still increasing and we're still racking up HUGE deficits, we're obviously not paying back any debt already accumulated up to this point.

            Secondly, both the war in Afghanistan and the war in Iraq were approved by bipartisan vote in Congress; therefore, they're Bush's, the GOP's and the Democrat's wars, unlike Libya, which was Obama's war and which lacked the constitutionally required authorization by Congress. And Libya is going so swimmingly, isn't it?

            Finally, if we look at the much larger additions to the federal debt under Obama, they're almost entirely due to the nanny state's various programs' massive and fast-growing red ink. In fact, SS and Medicare represent close to $100T in unfunded liabilities, a sum which makes ALL defense spending virtually inconsequential.

            Why is it that you progressives sweat the little stuff like DoD spending while ignoring the much bigger picture of the nanny state's unsustainable burden which is killing our economy?

            Is it that you're incapable of getting your head around anything other than the small stuff?

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 4:44 pm on Fri, Mar 1, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            Bronco posted at 12:17 pm on Fri, Mar 1, 2013

            Having been heavily instructed in the scientific method, I'd have to say that is one of the most pathetic definitons of scientific "theory" that I've heard in a while. Any definition which isn't closely tied to some kind of explanation of the scientific method itself is essentially useless in conveying the key differences between a scientific "hypothesis", "theory" and "law."

            Little wonder that Encyclopedia Britannica is but a shell of its former self.

            In any event, you have succeeded once again in adding nothing of value to the discussion and certainly haven't provided any evidence to show that macroevolution and AGW are anything other than unproven hypotheses.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 4:36 pm on Fri, Mar 1, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            Pete: If it is true (putting aside my doubts) isn't it possible that man is in the process of stunting his own development?

            HTC: There are a number of neuropsychologists and evolutionary neurologists who believe that the answer to your question is an emphatic "YES!" A group of such researchers at Stanford recently released a paper documenting what they say is the decline in human intelligence due to technology, improved standards of living and the emergence of the welfare state.

            Of course, for many of us, the outcome of the 2012 presidential election is more than ample evidence that they're on to something.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 4:30 pm on Fri, Mar 1, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            Rob123: Point of clarity.....this "absolute truth" you speak of, is it independent of the observer? Does the mere act of observation change "it" in any way?

            HTC: Without getting into the wacky world of quantum physics or the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, the scientific method places its trust in the repeatability of experiments by many other scientists. When the predictions which flow from an hypothesis prove correct by experimentation/observation done by many different scientists in different places and times, then and only then does it become a candidate for the label "theory."

            But science doesn't offer us a way to find absolute truth; rather, it can get us close but there is never any way to prove that we're not still missing something in our understanding. Even the scientific concept of 'laws' is being challenged by quantum physics were it seems that indeed a particle can be in two different places at the same time as well as simultaneously be matter and energy.

            It's a brain torque for sure.

            Rob123: In short, what the he// you talking about?

            HTC: If you don't know, I certainly can't explain it to you. But I'll give you a hint: for the scientific method to work and collective scientific research to succeed in advancing our knowlege of the physical universe and how everything works, all scientists must follow proper scientific methodology and obviously must agree on what key terms such as "hypothesis" and "theory" mean.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 3:53 pm on Fri, Mar 1, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6597

            Moose: "Way to go Demo-Dummies - you did this."

            You're in good company?
            http://www.duffelblog.com/2013/02/facing-mass-layoffs-taliban-protests-against-automatic-us-budget-cuts-from-sequester/

             
          • mooseberryinn posted at 3:36 pm on Fri, Mar 1, 2013.

            mooseberryinn Posts: 2685

            Sequester - A King Obama originated program. Which, by the way, he can have his faithful minions choose where to make cuts if necessary. Note - this is a 2.4% decrease in proposed spending. In other words, funds have not "disappeared", no budget's have been slashed, (there aren't any budgets carved in stone either). So, King Obama is ordering his minions to publicize the most "hurtful" cuts, lay-off or threaten workers such as teachers, border patrol, FBI, TSA, ATC etc. so as to inflict his revenge upon America. He serves as a wonderful example of the petty little vengeful dictator and bully, angry that he didn't get his own way. He is a first class example of a noxious t*rd. Way to go Demo-Dummies - you did this.

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 3:32 pm on Fri, Mar 1, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            http://www.resilience.org/stories/2011-11-18/fracking-and-quaking-theyre-linked

            The truth be damned...Scientists were right about all along...

             
          • Bronco posted at 2:45 pm on Fri, Mar 1, 2013.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            If you don't think education matters, you probably get your information from these three guys...

            College dropouts: Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Glenn Beck.
            -----------------------

            BTW...Rachel Maddow: Standford University, BA in Public Policy. Oxford University, PHD in Political Science.

             
          • reggie posted at 1:47 pm on Fri, Mar 1, 2013.

            reggie Posts: 88

            High talk, here are some of the "ill informed liberal media" you so easily slander. The article (google: fox's misinformation effect) I referenced for your, and everyone else's perusal, lists The University of Maryland; Stanford University; American University; George Mason University; Yale University; NBC; and Ohio State University as the sources of these surveys. Which all show Fox news watchers to be the least informed on the various subjects surveyed. And the more you watch Fox news the more you are misinformed.

            It also goes on to explain why this is so. That is why I expressed doubt that many readers/posters here would read it.

            You on the right are so deluded about reality that if it is not on fox (or other rightwing fringe media) you avoid exposure, Like you know your beliefs won't survive if you read some real logic and facts that causes you to actually think rather than follow along like lemmings. You have even distorted the old saw; "you are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts" into being entitled to your own "facts".

            Hillary is right...."they refuse to live in an evidence based world". Problem is... To have any chance to return our nation to former greatness, and regain the American dream for everyone, only the people acting together can overcome the cabal of organized money controling the U.S. Thus the overloard's tool, Fox News, is an enemy of the state by keeping us divided with LIES!

             
          • Rob123 posted at 1:05 pm on Fri, Mar 1, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6597

            http://www.wimp.com/customflavors/ Good, American Science! And in Chicago!

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 12:55 pm on Fri, Mar 1, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            HighTechCowboy posted at 10:50 am on Fri, Mar 1, 2013.

            HTC-"Your kind just hate absolutes,don't you? But, in science, we try to get as close to absolute truth as is humanly possible. It's a respectable pursuit, no matter how many millions or even billions of morons mock it".

            IABD- I am awed by your Absolutarian greatness Mr.H. Have you ever played chess with yourself and won? Would two players be too liberal for you?

             
          • Bronco posted at 12:22 pm on Fri, Mar 1, 2013.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            Sequester: Can we call it what it really is? Paying for GW Bush' two wars.

             
          • Bronco posted at 12:17 pm on Fri, Mar 1, 2013.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            HTC: In a nutshell, a "theory" in science is an hypothesis which has been well enough developed, tested, and verified by others that it is considered to be most likely true. Per the scientific method, an hypothesis (the precursor to a theory) must enable scientists to make predictions which are then verified by empirical observation/testing. If any of those predictions prove false, then it's back to the drawing board on the hypothesis.
            --------------------
            Encyclopedia
            scientific theory

            systematic ideational structure of broad scope, conceived by the human imagination, that encompasses a family of empirical (experiential) laws regarding regularities existing in objects and events, both observed and posited. A scientific theory is a structure suggested by these laws and is devised to explain them in a scientifically rational manner.
            ----------

            As used in science, a theory is an explanation or model based on observation, experimentation, and reasoning, especially one that has been tested and confirmed as a general principle helping to explain and predict natural phenomena.

            Any scientific theory must be based on a careful and rational examination of the facts. A clear distinction needs to be made between facts (things which can be observed and/or measured) and theories (explanations which correlate and interpret the facts.

            A fact is something that is supported by unmistakeable evidence. For example, the Grand Canyon cuts through layers of different kinds of rock, such as the Coconino sandstone, Hermit shale, and Redwall limestone. These rock layers often contain fossils that are found only in certain layers. Those are the facts.

            It is a fact is that fossil skulls have been found that are intermediate in appearance between humans and modern apes. It is a fact that fossils have been found that are clearly intermediate in appearance between dinosaurs and birds.

            Facts may be interpreted in different ways by different individuals, but that doesn't change the facts themselves.

            Theories may be good, bad, or indifferent. They may be well established by the factual evidence, or they may lack credibility. Before a theory is given any credence in the scientific community, it must be subjected to "peer review." This means that the proposed theory must be published in a legitimate scientific journal in order to provide the opportunity for other scientists to evaluate the relevant factual information and publish their conclusions.--------FSteiger

             
          • Pete posted at 12:11 pm on Fri, Mar 1, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Per Rob's tea-stained teeth comment...here's a question about "evolution" etc. If it is true (putting aside my doubts) isn't it possible that man is in the process of stunting his own development? After all, a little nip here, a tuck there, and some veneers and nearly anyone can mess with natural selection. Not to mention the internet, which makes everyone a genius. So...that brings you right back to la Biblia doesn't it? And the truth that we should be more concerned with inner beauty (character) than outer if we truly want to "evolve". Interesting huh? Okay....back to Sports Illustrated...its got a great article on the art of body paint.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 12:07 pm on Fri, Mar 1, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6597

            Pete......[thumbup]

            --------------------
            HTC: "Your kind just hate absolutes,don't you? But, in science, we try to get as close to absolute truth as is humanly possible. It's a respectable pursuit, no matter how many millions or even billions of morons mock it."

            Point of clarity.....this "absolute truth" you speak of, is it independent of the observer? Does the mere act of observation change "it" in any way? In short, what the he// you talking about? Sounds like a big gestalt?

             
          • Pete posted at 11:47 am on Fri, Mar 1, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Rob123 posted at 5:49 am on Thu, Feb 28, 2013

            "Back in the day, when my mom was living in West Vancouver, B.C., it was fast paced and very friendly, assuming you had a wad of money and no fear of spending it. Very Urban. Of course, if one drove up to the British Properties, it got quite snooty, but soon one realized the lack of smiles, and physical distance when communicating, had to do with the condition of their rotting, tea stained teeth, and not so much their 'true self'. (-:"

            [smile] All very true. I've always admired the hedges in Vancouver. The part of your barbarian definition, "...echoic of unintelligible speech of foreigners" is funny as he// when I think of my Canadian cousins and their rapid-fire, clipped, highland brogue that comes salted with so many "ehs" and Canadian-isms that half the time I just nod and smile. God forbid they toss you a few toonies and tell you to take the ski-doo in the garage into town and pick up a mickey, a two -four, h0m0 milk and some tim-bits. (Which about sums up their diet.)

            Having driven across the "dominion" a few times, I can attest to the urban/rural differential, although the folks in Saskatchewan, Manitoba and along the north shores of the Great Lakes give the same look I've seen in Devils Lake, ND or places along the eastern highline. I always figured it was the wind, the water, the isolation, and the affable scandinavian blood...not necessarily in that order.


             
          • kohana posted at 11:25 am on Fri, Mar 1, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            HTC has explained "theory" and "hypothesis" so simply a Jr. High School student can understand it. I forwarded his post to my great granddaughter. The one planning on becoming a neurosurgeon. However, if you like, it can be explained thus:

            Do not keep saying to yourself, if you can possibly avoid it, "But how can it be like that?" because you will get "down the drain," into a blind alley from which nobody has yet escaped. Nobody knows how it can be like that. Richard Feynman 1918-1988

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 10:50 am on Fri, Mar 1, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            laker1 posted at 9:38 am on Fri, Mar 1, 2013

            Pretty funny considering that the left side of the fence has practically redefined every word in the English language, starting with the word 'liberal.'

            Your kind just hate absolutes,don't you? But, in science, we try to get as close to absolute truth as is humanly possible. It's a respectable pursuit, no matter how many millions or even billions of morons mock it.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 10:45 am on Fri, Mar 1, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            Happy sequestration day
            By Erick Erickson
            March 01, 2013

            Today is Sequestration Day. Americans should be happy.

            Last year during the debt ceiling fight, Democrats and Republicans in Congress came up with a novel idea. To satisfy the demands of conservatives who insisted on the whacky idea of paying down the national debt, Congress would create a bipartisan “super committee” consisting of members of both the House and Senate who would come up with a plan to make cuts or increase revenue to pay down the national debt.

            President Obama joined in the negotiations and came up with the idea of sequestration. If the super committee failed, and most everyone privately thought it would, there would be automatic spending cuts in 2013 that would target sacred cows including defense and education — painful for both sides.

            In fact, it is reasonable to believe, the sequestration cuts would be so painful to the sacred cows of both sides that once the super committee — stacked with congressmen and Senators who could never get the job done — failed, Congress could punt on sequestration and come up with new ideas to pay down the debt or find new shiny initiatives to distract Americans from a lack of debt reduction.

            Barack Obama came up with sequestration. He negotiated it. Conservatives opposed it knowing that Republicans would ultimately cave and there would actually be no spending cuts. Then a funny thing happened. Republicans and their conservative base fell into a lovers quarrel over the direction of the party. The party establishment in Washington wanted to collaborate with the President, ignored the base’s demands to keep up the fight against ObamaCare, and started acting arrogantly against conservatives.

            The base fought back. Republican leaders knew they had to do something to keep up appearances with the base. They decided they could not backtrack on sequestration. The cuts had to happen.

            President Obama has long shown a propensity to be good at only one thing: the self-promotion of Barack Obama. He has not been good at governance. He has not been good at getting other Democrats elected. He has been a terrible negotiator. He failed to see what was happening in the party opposite. He structured a deal that made sequestration the law of the land without a literal act of congress to stop it.

            Now we have arrived at the day most thought would never come.

            In the run up to today, President Obama resorted to a campaign of fear mongering. He decided to make sequestration a blunt instrument. Instead of using his executive discretion to make careful cuts, he found ways to make the cuts appear disastrous, spooky, and painful for the American people. In the last week it would have come as no surprise to hear the president, given his increasing hyperbole about sequestration, to claim it would cause both erectile dysfunction and hospitals to finish off the infirm and elderly without so much as a visit to a death panel.

            But the hyperbole did not work. Sequestration has arrived.

            In all the talk, chatter, punditry, and hyperbole, one thing has been forgotten. This fight has never been about where to make cuts, but whether to make cuts at all. House Republicans offered several plans to alter the cuts. The Democrats would never consider them. The Democrats, instead, preferred raising taxes and, in sequestration, got one of their long held wishes of defense cuts.

            The Democrats were never serious about real spending cuts, which is why the president could be so unserious at his campaign style rallies claiming sequestration would cause furloughs for teachers, policemen, and fire fighters, none of whom are even employed by the federal government.

            The game now is predictable. Democrats will try to make the sequestration cuts as painful as possible on the American people. They will stop spending in areas that will do maximum harm and inconvenience to the lifestyle of the American citizen. They want Americans to think any cuts in spending at all are too disruptive.

            The president and Democrats do not have to do this. They could make reasonable cuts. But if they do they will show spending cuts are possible without major disruption, pain, and inconvenience. That would give away the game.

            The truth is, though, inescapable. Today the sun came up. Americans went about their daily lives. The federal government was open for business. The mail ran. The Mayans were not right.

            Americans are reminded that Washington can, in fact, cut its budget and the world will not end. The only better reminder of this would be a government shutdown. We can only hope.

             
          • kohana posted at 10:36 am on Fri, Mar 1, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            http://frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/iranian-ayatollah-claims-jews-invented-buddhism/

            Jackson Pearson
            Comment to Iranian Ayatollah claims…

            Banning The Ignorance Of Islam!

            Why would a man, let alone the President of a country predicated upon free speech, agree with a U.N. resolution to ban insulting Islam – not Christianity mind you – a religion responsible for the greatest tragedy on American soil? Every single day, Muslims, as well as Arab leaders, publicly call for the destruction of America and Israel. In fact, just yesterday Iranian President Ahmadinejad claimed, for the millionth time, Israel would soon be wiped off the map; yes, right in front of the same wise international body that supposedly is acting to preserve the good name of the prophet Muhammad, rather than Jesus Christ. I have some bad news for the United Nations and Islam. The citizens of the United States of America will never cease in calling Islam what it truly is: a backwards ideology whose majority of members are blood thirsty minions of hate and ignorance. If Muslims universally object, prove it otherwise by taking to the streets and denouncing those terrorists who bludgeon humanity and any last vestiges of common decency. That’s what I thought.

            While we are on the subject of democratic duplicity, why do liberals – those who religiously support Palestine and the Muslim brotherhood – relentlessly attack Chick-Fil-A as a hateful, extremist enterprise that must be destroyed because it voiced its Constitutional right to disagree with gay marriage, like a majority of Americans, but they conveniently fail to utter one critical word about a religion that routinely stones gays to death? Likewise, Democrats endlessly assail Republicans with claims of an imaginary war on women – those right-minded souls who simply refuse to accept the over 60 million deaths of aborted babies since Roe V. Wade (9 times that of the Holocaust) - yet the left vehemently supports Islamic nations that deny women basic rights; nations who support females being beaten, tortured or murdered for doing nothing more than what millions of American women do everyday…live as equals. I find it disgustingly ironic progressives have no qualms with the flag being burned, the bible desecrated, or a crucifixion of feces being erected in the name of art, yet it is intolerable, or even criminal, to defame Islam – the greatest source of terrorism in the world today – by mocking the Koran or posting a YouTube video.

            If Barack Obama wants to support a New World Order to subversively supersede the Constitution with his radical agenda, one that favors barbaric tenets of Islam over the ideals of sanity, our Judeo-Christian values, then he should not object to being called a Muslim, or at the very least, a Muslim sympathizer. Any so-called leader who fails to secure our borders in a post 9/11 world, who fails to unconditionally condemn the murder of its own citizens at the hands of terrorists - let alone to prepare for it – and who fails to denounce Sharia Law as a grave threat to the Bill of Rights and American sovereignty, is fatally compromised and an enemy of the state himself.

            I want a real leader; one who puts America first – our security, our future, our right to live as free men and women – and not the modern-day caricature of some snot-nosed pothead who thought communism was cool because he hated America so much he couldn’t tell right from wrong, sunshine from subjugation, and that the countless lives crushed beneath the boot of Lenin, Stalin, and Che Guevara were nothing more than footnotes in a history book; no, they were mothers and fathers, sons and daughters, victims. If Islam, a religion that has never had a reformation, a common sense re-evaluation of its antiquated beliefs, is hopelessly bent on hating American until the end of time, they can do so on their dime and without our sympathies. If I’m not mistaken, and I have much more of a mathematical conscience than Barack Obama, our consulates could use a budget increase. Then again, we’re obviously asking the wrong person. Mitt Romney gave more to American values in one year, than Barack Obama gave in his entire life.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 10:15 am on Fri, Mar 1, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            Bronco: Prehistoric warming linked to CO2

            HTC: There are several problems with this, three of the most significant being:

            (1) Correlation does not equal causation. Atmospheric physicists know that CO2 is actually a very weak greenhouse gas; therefore, CO2 levels would have had to rise quite a bit higher over a long period of time in order to account for the temperature changes indicated by those ice cores. We don't see that lag in temperature v. CO2 in this analysis.

            (2) What produced that gigantic increase in CO2 in the middle of a deep ice age? If fast growing CO2 levels are the cause of that massive ice-age-ending warming, where did it come from?

            (3) Solar physicists know that it was increased solar activity which ended the last ice age and that has been verified in ice cores as well by measuring changes in isotopes which are due to variations in radiation from the sun. In fact, they've even measured the periods of these different solar cycles and they map perfectly to changes in ice cores going back 600,000 years. To be an AGW alarmist, it is necessary to almost completely ignore the role of the sun which is like saying that the temperature in your house has nothing to do with your HVAC system and thermostat setting.

            It's a free country, so you have the right to run with the ignorant pack; or, you could start charting your own course and start studying the subject on your own, starting with taking a look at the mounds of hard scientific evidence on the other side of the argument.

            But a word of warning: You won't find that information on the sites you frequent. They're part of the problem.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 9:44 am on Fri, Mar 1, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            IABD: There have been winters so cold in Montana that even Montana Power's natural gas freezes in the pipes in eastern Montana because of this expanding moisture. It can even be colder in Alberta.

            HTC: There are tens of thousands of miles of gas pipelines in the U.S. and Canada which operate in harsh winter climates without a hitch, provided that proper procedures are followed and operating pressures are maintained along their length. There's simply no legitimate argument here to prevent the construction of more such pipelines.

            IABD: It would be more practical and profitable to refine all of Canada's resources within the Canadian borders, however better technology has a price and companies such as Halliburton who have been fracking in Alberta since the 1950's really don't care about the environment or health of people on this continent, or our fragile natural resources and prefer to pipe this to Houston and sell it to China while operating their world wide headquarters in Dubai.

            HTC: Pure poppycock. Natural gas and oil require efficient delivery mechanisms to get them to refineries and existing distribution pipelines and ports. Given the remote locations of so many of the shale plays, the choices are new pipelines to those plays, thousands of tanker trucks or new rail lines to those plays. New pipelines are the most cost-effective choice and present the least environmental impact and risk.

            IABD: The price of fuel will not go down in price if the pipeline is built and the majority of the fuel will never go into our gas tanks because nobody else in the world wants it but China.

            HTC: This is the kind of nonsense we hear all the time from progressives who haven't the foggiest idea of how markets work. Fossil fuels are traded in a GLOBAL market; therefore oil or gas flowing into the GLOBAL supply from ANYWHERE increases that GLOBAL supply relative to demand and, barring outside influences such as devaluation of the dollar through "quantitative easing", commodity speculation or brain-damaged liberal energy policies, ultimately drives down price.

            Right now, price has frequently run counter to normal supply-and-demand principles due to the Federal Reserve's printing $5T out of thin air, devaluing the dollar in global trade, and commodity speculation driven substantially by weak equity and bond markets and growing concerns over supply due to Obama's extremely hostile policies towards fossil fuels.

            We are on the verge of being energy independent, thanks to deep horizontal drilling and fracking, but Obama is doing everthing he can to shut that down. Even many environmental groups are extremely frustrated with him because it's tough to get environment-friendly natural gas to market from many of these newly tapped deposits because Obama won't permit the needed pipelines.

            Now he's got the EPA working overtime to find new ways to shut them down via new regulations on fracking fluids and flaring.

            America grew to become the biggest economy in the world, thanks to cheap and abundant energy and other natural resources. We will never hold onto that position as long as we keep electing Marxist morons like Obama.

             
          • laker1 posted at 9:38 am on Fri, Mar 1, 2013.

            laker1 Posts: 110

            HighTechCowboy posted at 8:10 am on Fri, Mar 1, 2013.

            “Rob123: .....definition of theory.

            HTC: The mistake Bronco is making, and it is a common mistake made by non-scientists, is to assume that the word "theory" has the same meaning within the scientific method that it does in general usage.

            Nothing could be further from the truth.
            …”

            The following may explain things a little more clearly.

            "‘When I use a word,' High Tech Cowboy said, in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.'

            ‘The question is,' said Alice, ‘whether you can make words mean so many different things."

            ‘The question is,' said High Tech Cowboy, ‘which is to be master—that's all.'"

            Through the Looking Glass and What Alice Found There by Lewis Carroll , page 94 (Random House, 1948)

             
          • Rob123 posted at 9:09 am on Fri, Mar 1, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6597

            HTC; "....is to assume that the word "theory" has the same meaning within the scientific method that it does in general usage."

            I know. Which is why I put on my sandals and told you'al the parable of the Lizard Eyes. Ketchup. [wink]

             
          • kohana posted at 8:36 am on Fri, Mar 1, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            Bronco posted at 9:15 pm on Thu, Feb 28, 2013
            "Frank must have an extensive knowledge of..."

            Computer program, and it's probably caught plenty of yours.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:10 am on Fri, Mar 1, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            Rob123: .....definition of theory.

            HTC: The mistake Bronco is making, and it is a common mistake made by non-scientists, is to assume that the word "theory" has the same meaning within the scientific method that it does in general usage.

            Nothing could be further from the truth.

            In a nutshell, a "theory" in science is an hypothesis which has been well enough developed, tested, and verified by others that it is considered to be most likely true. Per the scientific method, an hypothesis (the precursor to a theory) must enable scientists to make predictions which are then verified by empirical observation/testing. If any of those predictions prove false, then it's back to the drawing board on the hypothesis.

            If over time the various predictions which can be made from the hypothesis prove correct and others within the scientific community have made their own verified predictions using that hypothesis, it eventually becomes accepted as a theory.

            The 'theory' of anthropogenic Global Warming (AGW) is merely an hypothesis because it is based upon computer models whose predictions are constantly refuted by actual measurements using ground-based instruments, airborne instruments and satellites. Furthermore, and most egregious for alleged scientists, is the fact that there has been and continues to be considerable fraud in an effort to suppress data and findings which conflict with this highly politicized junk science.

            The 'theory' of evolution has to be divided into the two areas of (1) microevolution and (2) macroevolution. The former is well-verified and accepted theory. The latter, while often held up as theory (just like AGW), is far from it and may never attain that status due to its many failed predictions and the fact that empirical verification would require observation over millions of years in order to document the emergence of new species per the hypothesis.

            At least many in the evolutionist community recognize that Darwin was 'cheating' when he sought to ignore the question of the origin of life, as it is inseparable from the hypothesis of macroevolution. That is why many are working feverishly to discover that essential chain of chemical reactions which could produce a living cell.

            I wish them luck.

            As I've stated previously, I have no problem with teaching macroevolution as an hypothesis, provided that it is a balanced presentation and does not present it as proven theory or 'fact' as is all too often done in classrooms today. Nothing valid or good is gained by perverting both the scientific method and the existing knowledge base in an corrupt attempt to achieve a predetermined outcome.

             
          • bill39 posted at 6:27 am on Fri, Mar 1, 2013.

            bill39 Posts: 1050

            Bronco: kohana, Frank must have an extensive knowledge of

            sap: a foolish and gullible person.

             
          • bill39 posted at 6:10 am on Fri, Mar 1, 2013.

            bill39 Posts: 1050

            JBStone: So what you're saying is that you have never sat through a White House press briefing in Obamaland..???

            [smile] Yes, it seems things have changed. Oh ya.........hope and change

             
          • bill39 posted at 6:04 am on Fri, Mar 1, 2013.

            bill39 Posts: 1050

            HTC: As for the Cheney hunting accident, that's exactly what it was. The man .............

            I really dont put ALL the blame on the liberal media, some of the blame goes to the people who believe lies then repeat them without any research. But that is typical.

             
          • bill39 posted at 5:54 am on Fri, Mar 1, 2013.

            bill39 Posts: 1050

            HTC: The folks in ND would like to do the same thing but find themselves up against a fossil-fuel hostile president who's blocking them just like he blocked the Keystone XL pipeline.

            I was foing to post that but since you already have........... [smile]

             
          • bill39 posted at 5:51 am on Fri, Mar 1, 2013.

            bill39 Posts: 1050

            HTC:The folks in ND would like to do the same thing but find themselves up against a fossil-fuel hostile president who's blocking them just like he blocked the Keystone XL pipeline.

            I was going to post that but since you already have..........[smile]

             
          • bill39 posted at 5:46 am on Fri, Mar 1, 2013.

            bill39 Posts: 1050

            jenny: Like most people in North Dakota, the Jorgensons only own the surface rights to their property, not the subsurface mineral rights.

            So, who owns the mineral rights, the previous ranch owners or the govt.? Or do you actually know anything about it?

            jenny: So there was nothing they could do when, in May 2010, a Dallas-based oil company, Petro-Hunt, installed a well pad on the Jorgensons' farm..........

            If they owned the mineral rights I'm sure they would have said "drill baby drill".


             
          • Rob123 posted at 4:45 am on Fri, Mar 1, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6597

            HTC vs Bronco: subject.....definition of theory.

            You two need to get on the same page, relax, and duke it out with civility. Otherwise, us folks reading along, with understanding, will evolve into lizards capable of focusing each eye in a different direction, which will totally mess up our depth perception and then we will be getting into fender benders every time we go to the store for food.
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory

             
          • Bronco posted at 9:15 pm on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            kohana, Frank must have an extensive knowledge of porno terms to catch your comment before it hit the internet. Perhaps he'll have some time to learn about personal insults and website rules...

             
          • Bronco posted at 9:13 pm on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            HTC: I've made it quite clear that I, like many others, take exception with liberal educators falsely elevating hypotheses like evolution and man-caused climate change (AGW) to the level of a "theory". Both fall far short of the requirements, per the scientific method, which must be met to be deemed a theory.
            -----------------------
            theory: a supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something, esp. one based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained
            ----------------------

            Prehistoric warming linked to CO2
            A study of 20,000- to 10,000-year-old Antarctic ice indicates that a rise in temperatures was driven by natural carbon dioxide emissions.

            By Tia Ghose, LiveScience Staff Writer / February 28, 2013

            Rising carbon dioxide levels may have caused Antarctic warming in the past, new research strongly suggests.

            The findings, published today (Feb. 28) in the journal Science, just add to the body of evidence that human-caused greenhouse gas emissions will lead to climate change.

            "It's new evidence from the past of the strong role of CO2 [carbon dioxide] in climate variation," said study co-author Frédéric Parrenin, a climate scientist at the CNRS in France.

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 9:04 pm on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            HighTechCowboy posted at 8:16 pm on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            Canada's history of natural gas flaring goes back before WWI. Natural gas is not that easy to pipe directly out of the groud to heat homes due to natural condensates or in other words, moisture. Propane is a more refined natural gas. There have been winters so cold in Montana that even Montana Power's natural gas freezes in the pipes in eastern Montana because of this expanding moisture. It can even be colder in Alberta. It would be more practical and profitable to refine all of Canada's resources within the Canadian borders, however better technology has a price and companies such as Halliburton who have been fracking in Alberta since the 1950's really don't care about the environment or health of people on this continent, or our fragile natural resources and prefer to pipe this to Houston and sell it to China while operating their world wide headquarters in Dubai. The price of fuel will not go down in price if the pipeline is built and the majority of the fuel will never go into our gas tanks because nobody else in the world wants it but China.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:16 pm on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            hennydoe: Much of this is burned off at flaring stations near the wells for the simple reason that gas is cheap while oil is valuable. At one level, it's an enormous waste. Some 100 million cubic feet of gas are burned at well sites each day, enough to power a city of 500,000 – and all because oil companies find it more expedient to burn the gas rather than build pipelines to carry it off.

            HTC: When that idiot Obama won't give you the permits to build those pipelines, it certainly is more 'expedient' to burn the gas. You just really don't get it, do you?

            hennydoe: And the maintenence worker is the one who was training to conceal his weapon. His gun went off and ended up hitting his leg. The maintenence worker was the one staying after class for one-on-one training. He was to be an official gun carrier at his school. Would it make it more true if I said he was a democrat?

            HTC: The news reports were mixed on the details at first. It does now appear that the wounded party and the student were one and the same. Regardless, it doesn't make him or his instructor stupid, nor does this accident make Biden less stupid.


             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 7:33 pm on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            JBSTONE posted at 6:45 pm on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            Thou art still JBStone...How are you been doing lately? Everyone else thought you were roadkill, but I knew you were still alive. I kept the faith. I still encourage you to do exercise your 1st amendment privileges and show the rest of your Canadian brothers by your example that while you live in the USofA you can always be off topic, defamatory, libelous, obscene, racist, abusive, threatening and an invasion of privacy. It would be a violation of the Prime Directive if you were'nt.

             
          • kohana posted at 7:10 pm on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            JB, delighted to see you back!

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 6:52 pm on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            ditor posted at 10:24 am on Sun, Feb 24, 2013.
            Editor Posts: 341 Staff
            ". It would also have been unthinkable to allow the Soviet Union to broadcast communist propaganda from inside our borders. This is common-sense self-defense. You do not invite the wolf into the henhouse". -Frank

            So what you're saying is that you have never sat through a White House press briefing in Obamaland..???

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 6:45 pm on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "IABD- Love is the key to open the doors locked by egoism and greed.
            If you open your heart, the world is an open door."

            good...........now begone and don't let the open door hit you in the rump on the way out............!!!

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 6:12 pm on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            HighTechCowboy posted at 2:39 pm on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.
            HTC-"The reason liberals are so afraid of guns is because they fear the rest of us are as stupid as they are."

            IABD- You are correct again Mr. H...Montana Liberals as well as Montana conservatives are afraid to look stupid to other sportsman and would dread being seen hunting dressed up as a High-Tech-Clone while brandishing a fully-automatic assault rifle with 100 round clips. The libertarian psycho sportsman look is only fashionable in Ted Nugent's world.

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 5:22 pm on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            jennydoe posted at 3:53 pm on Thu, Feb 28, 2013

            The burning off of the natural gas has mostly to do with supply and demand and reasons why Keynesian economics master HTC would rather keep the children of the future in trade schools or oil field work keeping mothers barefoot and pregnant.
            The price of natural gas was as low as $2.25/gal.in NW Montana last year. Because there is a glut of natural gas, the major oil companies would rather burn it off to avoid NG from becoming even cheaper and more viable option for consumers. Montana winters have also been warmer resulting in less revenue for Montana Power Co. and investors. MPC therefore still wants to raise the price of NG regardless of the glut.

            http://missoulian.com/news/state-and-regional/natural-gas-prices-plummet-but-largest-montana-utilities-want-customers/article_73de3b24-3c42-11e2-9f0d-001a4bcf887a.html

            The only automobile manufacturer that currently offer a vehicle that will run on natural gas is Honda.

            America, Start Your Natural-Gas Engines
            Replacing gasoline in our cars could be an energy game changer. Here's what we need to do to get from here to there.

            http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304192704577406431047638416.html

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 4:17 pm on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            HTC- "Texas long ago developed the pipeline infrastructure to bring those gases to collection and refining installations where they could be processed for later consumption."

            IABD- Good point Mr. H...Texas has not built a new refinery since 1976. Most of Texas natural gas refinerys are more than 80 years old, being inefficient, leak or too antiquated. Refinery cities in Texas produce far too much pollution as it is.

            The average temperature in Houston in July is 95°F and humid. Any temperature above 70°F with sunlight as the catalyst creates smog problems. Smog problems were never factored into Texas geography or other socio-economic risks at the time they were first built.

            There is added doubt of the integrity and safety of the pipeline moving Canada's thicker tar sands oil safely to Texas because excessive pressure requirements were not factored in or conveniently and deliberately ignored.

            Meanwhile HTC is overheard singing in the shower of a fracking oil company man camp in eastern Montana: "Lately I've been running on faith What else can a rich boy do?"

             
          • kohana posted at 4:07 pm on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            Tell ya jennydoe, you sure don't have to pay any health club for daily exercises, as you get plenty just jumping to conclusions.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 3:53 pm on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            FTA: Much of this is burned off at flaring stations near the wells for the simple reason that gas is cheap while oil is valuable. At one level, it's an enormous waste. Some 100 million cubic feet of gas are burned at well sites each day, enough to power a city of 500,000 – and all because oil companies find it more expedient to burn the gas rather than build pipelines to carry it off.

            And the maintenence worker is the one who was training to conceal his weapon. His gun went off and ended up hitting his leg. The maintenence worker was the one staying after class for one-on-one training.
            He was to be an official gun carrier at his school. Would it make it more true if I said he was a democrat?

             
          • kohana posted at 3:52 pm on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109


            It's a beautiful day posted at 2:34 pm on Thu, Feb 28, 2013
            "The Keystone pipeline project is in the same path for of the northbound virus and has settled in? What else will we expect from nature as we heat up the planet? As the tundra melts the sky can turn gray from billions of mosquitoes."

            According to this logic, those mosquitoes should be dead from all the flaring gases they fly through.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 3:40 pm on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            The meaningless BA degree:

            http://blog.machinedesign.com/Machine_Design_Blogs/2013/02/25/the-meaningless-ba-degree/?NL=MD-04&Issue=MD-04_20130228_MD-04_59&YM_RID=rick@teksharp.com&YM_MID=1376420&sfvc4enews=42

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 3:33 pm on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            hennydoe: Or ask the school official in Texas that shot himself Tuesday while training to be the weapons holder at his school.

            HTC: You really must quit getting your 'news' from those lying liberal sites that you frequent.

            The Van Independent School District reports that the individual accidentally shot was a school maintenance worker, hardly a "school official", and was not handling a weapon himself. The class was a general concealed carry class, required for anyone applying for a CCW in Texas, and the student involved has stayed after the class for additional private instruction.

            Apparently his/her gun malfunctioned and while the instructor was helping to clear it, the gun misfired and it was a ricochet which hit the maintenance worker in the leg. Fortunately, his injury wasn't serious.

            As for the Cheney hunting accident, that's exactly what it was. The man he shot had dropped back to retrieve a quail that he'd shot and then came back up onto Cheney and the rest of the party unannounced as Cheney prepared to fire, putting himself in the path of the shot. His 'victim' readily took the blame for it, saying that he'd reapproached improperly and unsafely. Others present confirmed that account.

            Even when being extremely careful, accidents can happen, but there is no reason to believe that "stupidity" (unlike Biden's case) was a factor in either case. Biden's two shotgun statements were profoundly ignorant and reckless and demonstrated a complete lack of understanding of firearms, gun safety and the laws. Regardless, he is Obama's appointed front man for his gun control campaign, even though the man is completely firearms illiterate.

            But that's the Democratic way: You certainly don't need to be qualified to be president, so why would you need to be qualified in any way to lead what's really a cheap and unconstitutional gun grab effort?

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 3:07 pm on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            jennydoe posted at 12:40 pm on Thu, Feb 28, 2013

            Know why nearly a third of the gases coming up the wells over the Bakken are flared rather than captured (even though they're valuable), while only less than half of one percent are flared in Texas, and almost all of that is only during a well's initial development?

            The answer to that is very simple. Texas long ago developed the pipeline infrastructure to bring those gases to collection and refining installations where they could be processed for later consumption. The folks in ND would like to do the same thing but find themselves up against a fossil-fuel hostile president who's blocking them just like he blocked the Keystone XL pipeline.

            Obama's obstacles force them to burn (flare) these gases instead, to avoid damaging the ozone layer and releasing pollution-creating compounds into the atmosphere, unmodified or neutralized by burning them. An estimated 100 million cubic feet of gas is flared each day, enough to heat half a million homes. They're literally being forced to burn what would otherwise be money in their pockets, thanks to the braindead energy policies of the guy you re-elected.

            The liberal press is full of stories suggesting massive environmental and ground water damage, supposedly due to fracking; yet, every investigation of these cases either fails to find any contamination or finds that it is due to other causes such as naturally occurring coal deposits touching on aquifers.

            I know many people working in the ND oil fields in various capacities and many who simply live there and have for a long time and none of them report anything remotely like these MSM horror stories.

            As for the alleged arsenic poisoning from fly ash (from coal-fired power plants), commonly used Portland cement contains substantial amounts of fly ash. Fly ash is also commonly used in road bed construction and many states such as ND have long allowed it to be disposed of in common land fills. No studies to date have shown fly ash to be be a significant source of heavy metal pollution; in fact, fly ash is used as a raw material to create zeolite which is used to REMOVE heavy metals from waste water.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 2:53 pm on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            HTIC says, "The reason liberals are so afraid of guns is because they fear the rest of us are as stupid as they are."
            ----------
            Perhaps you should get Dick Cheney's opinion on that.
            Or ask the school official in Texas that shot himself Tuesday while training to be the weapons holder at his school.
            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
            Are you holding up Crazy Uncle Joe as an example to be emulated or simply to provide some comic relief?
            --------
            Whatever you'd like.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 2:39 pm on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            mooseberryinn posted at 1:15 pm on Thu, Feb 28, 2013

            The reason liberals are so afraid of guns is because they fear the rest of us are as stupid as they are.

            jennydoe posted at 1:33 pm on Thu, Feb 28, 2013

            Are you holding up Crazy Uncle Joe as an example to be emulated or simply to provide some comic relief?

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 2:34 pm on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=melting-glaciers-liberate-ancient-microbes&page=4

            IABD- Does anyone ever read anything about the biological cliff issues over the fact the
            West Nile virus being carried by mosquitoes has invaded all of the lower 48 states and now into Canada? The Keystone pipeline project is in the same path for of the northbound virus and has settled in? What else will we expect from nature as we heat up the planet? As the tundra melts the sky can turn gray from billions of mosquitoes.

             
          • kohana posted at 2:26 pm on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            Do you all understand that this buffoon, Vice President Joe Biden, is one heartbeat away from the presidency?

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 1:51 pm on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            Bronco posted at 11:24 am on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            I am going to have to agree with HTC for the 1st time. Because Libertarian conservatives like HTC are self-made men that worship their creator, evolution would be theoretically impossible.

             
          • kohana posted at 1:44 pm on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109


            HighTechCowboy posted at 12:45 pm on Thu, Feb 28, 2013
            "Even worse, what does this say about his supporters?"

            Dust Bunnies

             
          • kohana posted at 1:41 pm on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109


            jennydoe posted at 12:40 pm on Thu, Feb 28, 2013

            You really need to do a little research before posting this garbage, especially from the Guardian.

            If these people bought their land in 1979, they knew there would possibly be oil wells pumping on their land. I had friends buying oil and gas lottery/leases on land in ND in the 1960s and 70s. One of his leases paid off and today he and his family are millionaires. He tried to get me to buy in with him, but I'm not a gambler, so said no. Drat!

            These people had other options than just sitting on that land. Emotion over land in the midst of development is kind of dumb. That oil makes us less dependent on Arab oil, a good thing.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 1:33 pm on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            Vice President Joe Biden told hunters Wednesday there’s no bear too big, no varmint too small that requires the use of a semiautomatic rifle when hunting.

            “If you have to go up into the Poconos and go bear hunting or deer hunting with that weapon, and you need a clip that has 30 rounds in it, then you shouldn’t be hunting,” Biden said in an interview with Field & Stream magazine released Wednesday. “You’re a danger to yourself. If you can’t get the bear or the deer in four or five shots, you’ve got a problem.”

            Earlier in the day, Biden delivered a similar comment when he spoke to the National Association of Attorneys General, but that time mentioned varmints.

            “I was told, ‘No, we need it for those little varmints.’ OK, I got it. More muskrat and mice might be alive. OK. I think we can put up with that,” Biden said at the luncheon. “Guys, these arguments!”

            Biden shared a bit of advice on self defense last week when he suggested people should “Buy a shotgun!” if they want to protect themselves in the home.

            “I said Jill, if there’s ever a problem, just walk out on the balcony here, walk out, take that double barreled shotgun and fire two blasts outside of the house,” Biden said he told his wife.

            The vice president made a similar argument in Field & Stream magazine, saying “I said, ‘Well, you know, my shotgun will do better for you than your AR-15, because you want to keep someone away from your house, just fire the shotgun through the door.”"

            In the administration’s latest push to take its gun proposals to the public, the vice president answered questions submitted by hunters in the interview with Field & Stream magazine. Last week, he took questions during an online forum with Parents magazine.

            Biden’s interview was the first in Field & Stream’s series of interviews on gun control. The next interview will feature Wayne LaPierre, executive vice president and CEO of the National Rifle Association.

            http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/02/biden-tells-hunters-no-need-for-semi-automatic-rifles/

             
          • mooseberryinn posted at 1:15 pm on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            mooseberryinn Posts: 2685

            Well now, if the King Obumpus bully tactics and hysteria isn't making you laugh..... here's old Joe D'buffoon telling Field and Stream if ladies feel threatened, they should "fire their shotguns through the door". Really, ya just can't make up stuff like this. Too funny. You tell 'em Joe!

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 1:04 pm on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            Bronco: No. What you did was state that teaching evolution in schools is part of "The Liberal Agenda."

            HTC: Here is precisely what I said in my post on Sunday, February 24, 2013 at 4:52PM:

            "(1) Teaching the evolutionary hypothesis as fact."

            Only six words and you still can't read it with a correct understanding of what that sentence said.

            I've made it quite clear that I, like many others, take exception with liberal educators falsely elevating hypotheses like evolution and man-caused climate change (AGW) to the level of a "theory". Both fall far short of the requirements, per the scientific method, which must be met to be deemed a theory.

            I have no problem with students being exposed to these hypotheses, as long as they're presented as such, along with their various problems which keep them from being elevated to the status of a theory; after all, that's part of the scientific process itself and how science ultimately advances our knowledge base.

            To present evolution as 'fact', just as they do with AGW, is even worse as it essentially elevates these conjectures to the status of 'law', such as the "law of gravity."

            These are extremely egregious violations of scientific protocol and, if you weren't as ignorant of the scientific method and science in general, as you are of a host of other subjects such as economics, you'd be outraged at them instead of me.

            As for insults, you have no idea how fortunate you are that you don't get the endless stream of insults and ridicule that your pathetic posts truly deserve. You are the best argument I've encountered to date that intelligence is indeed a failed evolutionary experiment.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 12:45 pm on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            kohana: There is just no rational way to explain how this empty headed empty suit got elected. Seriously, the man has not had an original idea, has not led on anything, has not produced any legislation of his own, has not submitted a budget on time, and has cast no vision for building a strong America.

            HTC: Even worse, what does this say about his supporters?

             
          • jennydoe posted at 12:40 pm on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            In 1979, Brenda and Richard Jorgenson built a split level home in the midst of a large ranch outside the tiny town of White Earth, North Dakota. Richard's family is from the area – his grandfather started homesteading on the plains in 1915 – and the couple's affinity for the area runs deep. They love the land they live on: the epic sky and seemingly endless grasses of the prairie, the White Earth River meandering through a tree-lined valley. For most of their lives the landscape of the region has been dominated by agriculture – wheat, alfalfa, oats, canola, flax, and corn. The Jorgensons always figured they would leave the property to their three children to pursue the same good life they have enjoyed.

            Then the oil wells arrived. They began appearing in 2006, and within just a few years dominated the area landscape. Today at least 25 oil wells stand within two miles of the Jorgensons' home, each with a pump, several storage tanks, and a tall flare burning the methane that comes out of the ground along with the petroleum.

            Like most people in North Dakota, the Jorgensons only own the surface rights to their property, not the subsurface mineral rights. So there was nothing they could do when, in May 2010, a Dallas-based oil company, Petro-Hunt, installed a well pad on the Jorgensons' farm, next to a beloved grove of Russian olive trees. First, heavy machinery brought in to build the well pad and dig a pit for drilling wastes took out some trees. Then the new hydrology created by the pad drained water away from the olives, while others became exposed to the well's toxic fracking fluid. Some 80 trees were dead by the summer of 2011.

            On February 2, 2012, drilling started on a second well even closer to the Jorgensons' home. "The smell of ammonia permeated the house," Brenda says, "and the yard was thick for quite a while too. The workers told us the smells came from corrosion inhibitors and biocide." Indignant, Richard called Governor Jack Dalrymple's office. A North Dakota health inspector arrived – but not until days later, after the drilling had stopped and trucks had left, and when neither of the Jorgensons were home. "We knew he'd come only because we found his card on our door," Brenda says drily. She tried contacting the county to see if they could re-zone their land as industrial, which they hoped would lead to closer regulation. County employees referred her to the North Dakota Industrial Commission, which regulates oil drilling. When she got ahold of staffers at the industrial commission, she was told she needed to talk to the county.

            The chemical trucks returned on February 9. Brenda emailed the governor's office asking for air quality monitors. There was no response. That night, their seven-year-old granddaughter, Ashley, who lives on the same road less than a mile away, woke up screaming from a headache. On February 10, the governor's office called, saying the governor would speak to the head of the Industrial Commission's Department of Mineral Resources, Lynn Helms. Nothing happened. The fracking started on February 18. Brenda quit hanging out laundry to dry because the clothes smelled so bad and the air burned her nostrils.

            Then, in August of 2012, the Jorgensons had their worst scare yet. Richard and Brenda had just finished a long drive home from a funeral service when they found that the gas flare on the well 700 feet from their house had gone out. They could smell the foul, rotten-egg scent of hydrogen sulfide gas, and knew that along with it would be a cocktail of methane, butane, and propane. The couple didn't know what to do. Petro-Hunt hadn't given them an emergency number, and when they called the company's office no one answered and there was no way to leave a message. So the couple threw open all the windows in their house, turned on fans, and left to move their horses farther away from the gas line.

            Brenda phoned me that night. She was in tears and at wits' end. "Who do you call?" she cried. "What do you do?"

            The Jorgenson's experience, dramatic though it might be, is not necessarily exceptional in western North Dakota these days. In just five years North Dakota has gone from a quiet agricultural state to a rapidly industrializing energy powerhouse. By the middle of 2012 North Dakota was producing about 660,000 barrels of oil a day, more than twice as much as just two years before. That number makes North Dakota the second largest oil producing state in the United States, after Texas.

            All of the new oil is coming from a vast underground deposit called the Bakken Shale that stretches from North Dakota west into Montana and north into Canada. The US Geological Survey estimates that the reservoir contains between 3 and 4 billion barrels of recoverable oil, a figure that would put it on par with Alaska's North Slope. According to the United States Geological Survey, the Bakken is the largest known oil reserve in the lower 48. Unlike conventional oil deposits – which are found in liquid pools and flow toward the surface when tapped – the "shale oil" in the Bakken is trapped amid layers of rock roughly two miles beneath the surface of the earth. Oil geologists have known about the formation since 1953. But the petroleum there wasn't recoverable until hydraulic fracturing technology was perfected in the early aughts.

            With the advent of fracking, the oil rush into North Dakota has been relentless. Some 150 companies, both wildcatters and oil majors, are drilling up to eight exploratory wells a day. In 2007, about 175 new wells were completed and started to pump oil. In 2009, 450 new wells were in put into production. By 2011 the number of new wells completed doubled to 900.

            North Dakota's political establishment – Democrats and Republicans alike – view the oil boom as a huge success. Thanks largely to the new oil play in the Bakken, the state's economy is surging. More than 41,000 workers were hired in North Dakota between 2008 and 2012, and the state has the lowest unemployment rate in the country. National leaders are pleased, too. All the oil pouring out of North Dakota has markedly improved US energy security. As recently as 2005, the US was importing 60 percent of the oil it consumes; today imports account for 42 percent of consumption. "Kuwait on the Prairie," is how one headline writer described the Bakken.

            But not everyone is happy about the situation. Traveling across northwest North Dakota it is not difficult to find farmers, ranchers, and Native Americans who are outraged by what they are experiencing. Many North Dakotans view the oil rush as an assault on their communities and the places they love. The current oil rush seems to them different than the last oil boom that took over the state in the 1970s. The petroleum in the Bakken Shale is what the fossil fuel industry refers to as "tight oil," or what environmentalists call "extreme energy." Like the petroleum locked in the tar sands of Alberta, Canada, shale oil is hard to get at even with the most advanced technologies. All of the extra effort involved in extraction means that Bakken oil has an especially heavy impact – on water resources, on land use, on wildlife and habitat, on the fabric of communities. The oil rush in North Dakota has turned life there inside out. As White Earth rancher Scott Davis puts it: "We're collateral damage."

            The anger some North Dakotans feel toward the oil and gas industry is fueled by the feeling that the situation is totally out of their control. In many instances, people say, the oil companies haven't been invited to drill – they've just invaded.

            Owning a piece of land is not the same as owning the rights to what is beneath its surface, the mineral rights. Beginning in the 1940s, oil, coal, and gas companies approached Dakota families and offered to buy the mineral rights of their properties. Many people agreed; the possibility of development seemed remote and the payments felt like free money. As a result, out-of-state investors and corporations own the mineral rights to much of the land in the state. When the Jorgenson family bought their most recent 1,000 acres, for instance, they did not have the option to buy mineral rights; those rights had long since been sold to a broker in Louisiana.

            Between 2006 and 2009 oil companies approached mineral rights owners and offered $30 to $50 an acre and 18 to 20 percent royalties for a lease "option" to drill on their land. A typical lease option runs for three years, with the oil company having a second option to renew it for another two years at the same price. The owner of the mineral rights cannot refuse this renewal. If no drilling occurs during the renewal period, the oil companies must renegotiate at market rates.

            Between 2009 and 2011, as the extent of the Bakken reserve became clear and the global price of oil fluctuated around $75/barrel, oil companies radically increased the pace of drilling. They did not want the option renewals to expire and thus be forced to renegotiate the price at market rates, which by 2010 had skyrocketed to between $1,000 and $3,000 per acre, depending on how near the land was to proven finds.

            As the drilling began, farmers and ranchers discovered they had little say over what the oil companies did. Long-established common-law tradition concerning "split estates" holds that mineral rights are dominant over surface rights. If landowners decide not to allow access for drilling, the drilling company has the right to sue – and invariably wins. By landowners' accounts, even modest requests for change, such as the plea to move a well pad to the other side of a fence to allow for calving or to move a well's location to save a prairie wetland, are often ignored. Oil companies tell landowners that "plans have been made" and that it's "too late" to change them.

            When an oil company builds a well pad (which can range in size from seven to 10 acres), farmers and ranchers lose the use of that land. North Dakota law requires companies exercising mineral rights to compensate landowners for that loss. But the companies only pay fees similar to those asked for grazing cattle or growing crops – usually no more than $45 per acre a year. There is no compensation for losing the use of land adjacent to the well pad. Don Nelson, 48, a second-generation wheat and hay farmer who lives near Keene, North Dakota, says that when a seven-acre well pad was built in the middle of a 20-acre field, the whole piece of property became useless to him. "It's not economical to farm around it," he says. Nelson still had to pay taxes on the entire 20 acres, and the compensation didn't cover his losses.

            In 2011, North Dakota began requiring oil companies to negotiate with surface rights owners who claimed present and probable future damages to their land, but the state didn't require them to reach a settlement. Those landowners who have secured settlements normally receive about $1,750 an acre per year in damages. One White Earth rancher who refused to give her name because she worried about "violent retaliation" by oil company workers (she said cattle in the area have been shot by oil workers) says: "You either take the money or they take it [the land] from you anyway by court order."

            "People feel powerless," says Derrick Braaten, a Bismarck attorney who represents surface-rights owners who are battling oil companies. "The oil company is coming on your property. You don't have the ability to protect the land. You push the monster back, but at a certain point it's gonna walk on top of you."

            Farmers and ranchers also find themselves struggling with new roads, dust, air pollution, and litter that came with the industrialization.

            The intrusion of fleets of trucks on rural roads has degraded quality of life in western North Dakota. From exploratory drilling through completion, it takes about a thousand truck trips to frack a shale oil well. Rancher Don Nelson says that in his community near Keene "people have stopped going to town on Saturday night. The truck traffic makes it too risky."

            "Our people at the Ft. Berthold reservation are literally being killed by oil companies," says Kandi Mosset, a resident of New Town and the climate campaign organizer for the Indigenous Environmental Network. "We've suffered over a dozen truck-related deaths on our roads since 2008."

            With thousands of tractor-trailers hauling fracking fluids and drilling equipment across red-rock gravel roads each day, dust has become a problem. It rises in plumes for hundreds of yards, creating polluted, hazy skies that resemble those of Los Angeles on a bad summer day. "If you have a post box on the side of the road, it's full of dirt," says Walter Deville, a lifelong resident of Mandaree, the major oil producing area on the Ft. Berthold Reservation.

            Pat Hedstrup, a second-generation rancher in her forties who lives west of Dickinson, says the air pollution has gotten so bad that sometimes the cattle reject the dust-laden feed. "It's so full of dirt you have to wash it or nothing will eat it," she says. "Sometimes the hay has so much dirt the cattle won't even lay on it." Open range cattle in North Dakota have begun to die from dust pneumonia, a disease usually limited to feedlots.

            Farmers and ranchers have also found that the land they love is literally trashed by oil company workers. Shelly Ventsch, a farmer in her fifties, lives with her sister east of New Town, on a farm on which they grew up. The North Dakota she knows is one of "quiet, wide open prairies, clean and beautiful … a sanctuary for a yearning, weary soul." Less than a year ago, a well was installed on her property. In March 2012 she walked through the field and recorded a portion of what the workers had left behind: "There were cigarettes, lunch meat, toe warmers, butterscotch buttons, brownies, safety eyewear, a pipe wrench, pizzas and work gloves, plastic bags of all sizes, DANGER tape, boxes and labels, a placard in plastic reading 'Texas Buyer 82L-1098 Seller Dragon Products', and human waste deposits along with paper."

            The damage to western North Dakota's once-bucolic quality of life is the result of a larger, more violent process: the fracking itself. The very name of the drilling method, "hydraulic fracturing," sanitizes what can more accurately be described as "hyperbaric bombing" – using intense pressure to create an explosion.

            In conventional oil drilling, several dozen trucks converge on a site and bring pipes, cement, and about 60,000 gallons of water and chemical lubricants to facilitate the drilling. In contrast, fracking a shale oil well requires up to 1,000 truck trips to bring in – and then remove and relocate – up to thousands of tons of sand and millions of gallons of water and chemical solvents.

            Here's how it works. First the drill descends about two miles underground. At that point the drill bit moves horizontally for more than a mile and the horizontal pipe is then perforated. High-powered compressors then pump between three and six million gallons of water, and an additional 30,000 to 120,000 gallons of toxic-laden chemical fluids, into the well at pressures ranging from 3,000 to 15,000 pounds per square inch of pressure (psi). (Federal law doesn't require disclosure of which chemicals are used in fracking fluids and the industry won exemption from the Safe Drinking Water Act in 2005, right before the boom began.) The explosive force of the chemically saturated water creates fractures in the shale rock, allowing oil and gas to flow out. Between 1,000 and 2,000 tons of sand are pumped into the newly fractured well seams to keep them from closing. The chemical mix further assists in keeping the seams open.

            One of the basic problems of fracking is that as much as a third of what goes down the well bore comes back up. Western North Dakota contains thousands of waste pits from oil wells. A typical pit is 50 yards long, 20 yards wide, and 15 feet deep. It receives wastes such as drilling mud and the combination of water and fracking fluids that come back to the surface (known as "produced water" or "brine"). In April 2012, North Dakota started requiring companies to put liquid wastes in tanks for transport to "disposal wells," but it still allows them to leave solid wastes such as drilling mud in pits, where the oil companies bury them. Watchdog attorney Braaten questions if the new law is being implemented. "I suspect that not a lot of the personnel on the rigs has changed, so it's just a question if their employers bothered to educate them on the new rules," he says.

            Because North Dakota's oil deposits are so deep, there is less danger than in other states that fracking fluids will contaminate underground aquifers in the course of oil and gas extraction. Nevertheless, there are risks involved. As with any oil drilling, spills sometimes occur. Some wells lose pressure and release fracking fluids at or near the surface, where they can enter the water supply. Storage pits have been known to leak. "In rainy springs like we had in 2011 and 2012 the pits overflow," Braaten says. "Plastic pit liners wear out and tear. The life of chemicals is much longer than the life of liners. Clay is not impermeable. Those wastes are going to move over time."

            An investigation last summer by the nonprofit journalism organization ProPublica, using North Dakota public records, found that more than 1,000 accidental releases of oil, drilling wastewater, and other fluids occurred in 2011 – as many as in the previous two years combined. Many of the spills were minor, but some were large, including a spill of 2 million gallons of brine that sterilized 24 acres of land.

            The 1,000-spills figure includes only incidents that oil drillers report themselves. State regulators admit that many more spills and the intentional dumping of wastewater occur but go unnoticed. Kris Roberts of the North Dakota Health Department told ProPublica: "What's the solution? Catching them. What's the problem? Catching them."

            When leaks and blowouts occur and are reported, oil companies frequently minimize the numbers. "It's all self-reporting by the companies," Braaten says. "When companies report a spill, it's always one barrel or ten, because that minimizes their responsibilities." Braaten also says state regulators, under pressure from the oil companies and politicians, often look the other way when accidents happen. He recalls an episode in which he drove to a farmer's field where an oil well had blown out and there was "an oil sheen all over the snow." He called a local inspector from the North Dakota Industrial Commission. "I don't want to get involved," the inspector responded. Braaten then called the North Dakota Health Department. A staffer drove out to the well site. "Mother Nature will take care of it," he concluded, then walked off.

            Allison Ritter, spokesperson for the North Dakota Industrial Commission, disputed Braaten's account of the episode, saying, "A conversation like that never happened." She then said: "We at the oil and gas division have lots of interests to look out for – mineral rights owners, surface owners, operators. We can't impede on the right of the mineral owners to develop their minerals. It's in our state constitution."

            The North Dakota Petroleum Council and two major oil companies drilling in the state did not respond to repeated requests for interviews.

            There is one ongoing, structural form of leakage occurring in the North Dakota oil fields that everyone agrees is happening: the routine leaking of natural gas. Methane is so abundant below ground, and so mixed with oil, that everything that comes up the well is full of natural gas. Much of this is burned off at flaring stations near the wells for the simple reason that gas is cheap while oil is valuable. At one level, it's an enormous waste. Some 100 million cubic feet of gas are burned at well sites each day, enough to power a city of 500,000 – and all because oil companies find it more expedient to burn the gas rather than build pipelines to carry it off. In reality, though, flaring burns only a portion of the gas. Because of the constant pressure on seams, joints, and valves, the systems leak gases during transfers. This leakage has an environmental impact far beyond the North Dakota. Methane, after all, is a potent greenhouse gas. Over its 12-year lifespan it is about 50 times more heat-trapping than CO2.

            It's not as if the people of western North Dakota don't want any oil drilling. Almost all of the farmers and ranchers who express concern about fracking at one time either worked for the oil companies themselves or have family members who did. Oil-related jobs are often the only way to get the money to build a farm or ranch. But the current boom – largely unregulated and proceeding without careful consideration for the long-term impacts – isn't facilitating rural livelihoods anymore. It's destroying them. Even some veteran oil patch workers express surprise at the Wild West frenzy underway. A rancher near White Earth recalls a conversation he had with an oil worker last summer. "There's going to be nothing left in northwest North Dakota," the oilman said. "I'm 62 years old and I've worked 40 years in oil fields all over the country, but I've never seen any place like this. It's a free-for-all out here. It will be a toxic waste dump. No one will be able to live here."

            Longtime North Dakota residents and experienced oil industry employees Jacki and Steve Schilke feel much the same way. Jacki no longer works in the industry, but Steve still does, inspecting pipelines for an independent maintenance company. A decade ago they bought a 160-acre ranch just north of Williston, a fulfillment of their lifelong dream to raise cattle. Starting in 2008, 35 wells went in along the roads within three miles of their home. In May 2010, drilling began on a well and drilling-waste disposal pit about 600 yards from their house. Soon the air began to smell of gases. In June 2011, their previously healthy Yorkie died. Then the cattle sickened. By the fall of that year, Jacki says, "I was so sick I couldn't walk." She traveled to a clinic in Montana, where urine tests revealed arsenic poisoning. The arsenic most likely came from the fly-ash used to reinforce the fracking wastewater pits.

            Then, that same season, a creek on the Schilke's land that ran below the hill with the oil well turned yellow and bubbled instead of freezing. When the well behind the house was being fracked, Jacki grew dizzy. Once she passed out for five hours. Eventually the North Dakota Health Department acceded to the couple's requests to test their well water, and found that it contained ethylene dichloride, a chemical the US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) calls a "probable carcinogen." Ethylene dichloride is commonly used by the extraction industry as a solvent to remove oil and grease from metal pipes and to bond cement. The Schilkes tried to get the North Dakota Health Department to test their air, but were rebuffed. They then hired a private firm from Texas to do the tests. The results showed high levels of benzene, toluene, and methane 24 hours a day. A Michigan medical specialist confirmed that Jacki had been exposed to neurotoxins and hydrocarbons. This and the arsenic exposure were the probable causes of her physical problems.

            Today, Jacki continues to battle health problems. Even the Schilkes' cattle suffer. "Our cattle started to waste away to nothing," Steve says. "We won't sell them to slaughter not knowing what's wrong, so we shoot them when they get that sick."

            The Schilkes know they are being poisoned, but they can't prove the source. They want to leave their home, but they fear that, because of the oil wells, their home and grazing lands are close to worthless. "We want to get out of here and move to Montana, but we can't," Jacki says with bitterness in her voice. "Every penny is tied up in this land. Hundreds of places around here are for sale or rent. We're living in the middle of hell."

            http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/dec/04/north-dakota-fracking-boom-family?CMP=twt_gu

             
          • jennydoe posted at 12:21 pm on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            HTIC: But hennydoe and company think his crap doesn't stink, so they'll continue to worship at his feet.
            -------------
            Excuse the F outta me, but who here worships President Obama? Nobody has shown any worship. Although it is clear what some of you feel about President Obama...ie hatred....I haven't seen anyone worshipping him as you all claim. It is you that has made him a 'king' 'saviour' etc. POS. He has accomplished more than you ever will, that is why you are stuck trying to be the big gun on a small towns newspaper editorial page. RLS cracked me up when he thought others were envious of you.


             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 12:08 pm on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            Cape Cod community considers taking down wind turbines after illness, noise
            By Molly Line
            Published February 26, 2013

            Two wind turbines towering above the Cape Cod community of Falmouth, Mass., were intended to produce green energy and savings -- but they've created angst and division, and may now be removed at a high cost as neighbors complain of noise and illness.

            "It gets to be jet-engine loud," said Falmouth resident Neil Andersen. He and his wife Betsy live just a quarter mile from one of the turbines. They say the impact on their health has been devastating. They're suffering headaches, dizziness and sleep deprivation and often seek to escape the property where they've lived for more than 20 years.

            "Every time the blade has a downward motion it gives off a tremendous energy, gives off a pulse," said Andersen. "And that pulse, it gets into your tubular organs, chest cavity, mimics a heartbeat, gives you headaches. It's extremely disturbing and it gets to the point where you have to leave."

            The first turbine went up in 2010 and by the time both were in place on the industrial site of the town's water treatment facility, the price was $10 million. Town officials say taking them down will cost an estimated $5 million to $15 million, but that is just what Falmouth's five selectmen have decided to move toward doing.

            "The selectmen unanimously voted to remove them. We think it's the right thing to do, absolutely," Selectman David Braga said. "You can't put a monetary value on people's health and that's what's happened here. A lot of people are sick because of these."

            Now the matter will go to a town meeting vote in April and could ultimately end up on the ballot during the municipal elections in May.

            "It's highly likely that what the voters will be determining is are they willing to tax themselves at an appropriate amount to cover the cost and dismantle and shut down the turbines?" Falmouth Town Manager Julian Suso said.

            In the meantime, the turbines are being run on a limited schedule as the selectmen respond to the concerns of nearby neighbors. The turbines only run during the day -- from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m. -- which means they're operating at a loss.

            The dispute has been a bitter three-year battle in the seaside town where officials argue the project was thoroughly vetted, researched and put to public vote multiple times.

            "To say 'let's let the voters decide' -- it sort of flies in the face of what we went through all these years," said Megan Amsler of the Falmouth Energy Committee.

            "We never tell somebody 'hey, you're going to have to take that coal plant down or you're going to have to stop mining the mountain tops.' These are very visible and a lot of other ways that we get our energy are invisible to the average American," Amsler argued. "People don't even know how much energy they consume on a yearly basis so I think it's good for people to be able to see where their energy comes from and know that it's coming from a clean source."

            "I think if we end up taking these turbines down it will be a shame. It will be an embarrassment for the Town of Falmouth," said Amsler.

            Town leaders say the state bears some monetary responsibility for the situation because Falmouth was granted renewable energy credits and received advice from state level energy officials through an ongoing partnership.

            "They certainly have been involved and have a tremendous stake in this process," said Assistant Town Manager Heather Harper. Harper said the Mass Clean Energy Center "provided the technical assistance to conduct all of the feasibility studies."

            "I feel the state is responsible because they were really pushing for more wind power which, believe me, the whole board of selectmen are supportive of renewable energy. I am. Maybe wind, but not in this location," said Braga.

            Ultimately, town leaders are hoping the controversy will be resolved and the community will find a way to move forward together.

            "It's imperative to the community that we do have a coming together and a healing and find a resolution one way or the other," said Suso. His advice to communities considering a similar project to the one causing strife in Falmouth is "move cautiously, communicate well, have extreme public dialogue and listen well."

            http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/02/26/cape-cod-community-considers-taking-down-wind-turbines-after-illness-noise/?test=latestnews#ixzz2MDqZlzTM

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 11:50 am on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            mooseberryinn: He threatens the American people with thousands being layed-off, furloughed, with services delayed, with insecure borders (when were they secure?). etc. etc.

            HTC: Have you noticed that the White House is already starting to walk back some of that fear-mongering rhetoric they've been heaping upon us the past few weeks? Apparently they realize that the GOP is committed to letting his fake crisis happen so that America can see what a lying sack of crap he is. The impending reality of life going on with barely a hiccup means that they have to do some damage control ASAP.

            Even the stock market realizes that Obama's manufactured crisis is a joke, as they merrily bid up the indices, recognizing that even 2.5% less government is good for America.

            But hennydoe and company think his crap doesn't stink, so they'll continue to worship at his feet.

             
          • kohana posted at 11:50 am on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            I'm joining the ranks of the ignorant. It seems I need to learn pornographic expressions to avoid the computer censor. Pretty darn bad when your newspaper editor has to educate you on such stuff. Well, I have no intention of getting a pornographic education so will just depend on the censor. Jeesh!

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 11:44 am on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            Rob123: ...which is probably why most of the 'patients' are a little timid about writing anything except what you want to hear.

            HTC: Really? They incessantly vomit upon these pages literally by the hour.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 11:42 am on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            Woodward isn't the only one who's been threatened by this White House:

            http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tom-blumer/2013/02/28/longtime-dem-lanny-davis-also-reports-white-house-threat

             
          • kohana posted at 11:33 am on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            jennydoe posted at 11:14 am on Thu, Feb 28, 2013
            "if you truly believe only democrats are"

            As I said, your reading comprehension seems to be nil.

            What I said was: "democrats seem to have more of than most other people" not only democrats. The ignorance is spread equally among all, do try not to be one of them.

            Try reading the response to "Low Information President" by RedStater.

             
          • Bronco posted at 11:24 am on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            HTC: I've never said I believed in creationism nor have I advocated for it in any way. What I've made perfectly clear to the intelligent reader is that the 'theory' of evolution cannot explain the orign of life, even though it is frequently taught as having already solved that vexing problem.
            Got it now?
            Sheesh....
            ------------------
            No. What you did was state that teaching evolution in schools is part of "The Liberal Agenda."
            Then you sidetracked and went on a rant about the origins of life. Throughout the discussion, you told everyone how stupid they are, threw insults around like rice at a wedding, lumped everyone who disagrees with you into the Progressive/Liberal/Lefty category, and blamed them for all of what's wrong in your world. Basically what you've done week in and week out since you've shown up.

            You're like gGod: Perfect in every way; omniscient; anyone and everyone who doesn't agree with you is worthless or flawed until they do; you bestow blessings on all who do agree with and subsequently worship you; for punishment you use insults, degradation, and intimidation instead of physical suffering.

             
          • kohana posted at 11:16 am on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            February 28, 2013

            Low Information Voters? How about a Low Information President?
            By Bruce Johnson

            There is a real possibility, a strong likelihood, that President Obama knows nothing of the nuts and bolts, the details and realities of the positions he promotes. He rides the Starship Air Force One, thrills adolescent crowds and frames himself with federal employees while orating vapid clichés dowsed in demagoguery. He drives the fancy car but needs help filling it with gas and couldn't point to the air filter if you popped the hood. Imagery sans leadership. Celebrity is the accomplishment here, and adoration is the metric. Polls demonstrate people approve more of him and less of his execution of the responsibilities of office. This Presidency is therefore wrapped in a managed personal imagery that supersedes the measure of ability. He speaks yet says nothing. He exists before the camera scripted to generalities and clichés. Once this is understood, we can sense there is no more. True leadership and real understanding of the issues just aren't there. Recall a few instances. There was the Paul Ryan Obamacare summit in which.... (Read Full Article)

            http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/02/low_information_voters_how_about_a_low_information_president.html


            Comment from RedStater:
            There is just no rational way to explain how this empty headed empty suit got elected. Seriously, the man has not had an original idea, has not led on anything, has not produced any legislation of his own, has not submitted a budget on time, and has cast no vision for building a strong America.

            Back when he was running in 2008, many of us wondered how this man who was a state senator for about 20 minutes before deciding to run for US Senate and then president could be serious. What could he possibly be thinking that he had a thing to recommend him for the job? He was Chance the Gardener, Walter Mitty, a modern Salieri in a world of Mozarts. The idea that he could get elected was laughable. The man started campaigning for president in 2007. We're still waiting for him to stop.

            Yet there were pundits and politicos all marveling at his political savvy, his stunning intelligence, his charisma, his Christlike presence. Religious imagery began to be more frequently applied to him. he seemed to bask in it, soak it up, and in fact begin to believe it himself. He was called savior, demi-god, a prophet and a deliverer. What were these people seeing that I and others like me could not?

            I am at a complete loss. It was incredible enough that he could be elected the first time, to the position of CEO of the most demanding job in the world having managed not so much as a lemonade stand or a paper route. That he could be re-elected after the dismal showing he produced after four years on the job was nothing less than stunning and utterly demoralizing. Those of us not impressed with genetics or his fictitious life narrative as the sole reason for giving him the position of Leader of the Free World were not just shocked and saddened by his re-election, but by the reaction we've gotten for it. Since then, we have been vilified, scorned, and insulted. We have been labeled racists, obstructionists, sore losers and reactionaries because we have not dutifully drunk the Kool-Aid and laid down (or bent over) for this man who hasn't a clue how to do his job, who has divided us more than ever, who has ceded his responsibilities over to minions and bureaucrats, who has played more than 17 work weeks of golf in just 4 years as the country reels from the destruction and ineffectiveness of his policies.

            I wrestle with this, as do most of us here at AT, looking to make sense out of the ridiculous. It's voter fraud, we're convinced. Or Romney was a bad candidate. Or conservatives stayed home. or Romney was a Mormon. Or the culture has declined. Or this. or that. Or varying combinations of this or that, with a little bit of something else throw in too. We all have our theories.

            But the fact remains, this b.o.o.b should never have been elected in the first place, not if we were going by qualifications and records. He should have been beaten like a 20 dollar mule after his first term. But he wasn't, thing are getting worse as the country dies a slow death, and half the electorate seems to be somewhere between unaware and uncaring. We have defenders of The One making excuses for Benghazi, for his failure to produce a legally mandated budget when required, for his utter disregard for the Constitution, for his amassing a debt in 4 years that is more than 4 times what the overspending Bush managed to acquire in 8 years. This is before inflation kicks in. All the debt now is being incurred at zero percent. What happens when the rates go up, as they surely must?

            Why are we here? Is it cultural rot? Is it the failure of conservatism? is it the natural death of a Republic, said to last around 200 years? Is it spiritual blindness predicted in the Book of Revelation as the spirit of anti-christ is set loose upon the world to prepare for the end? A biased media? Or the public school system? Pick one. Pick all of them. Are these things causes, or symptoms of a larger underlying impetus? I wish I knew.

            What I do know is what we all seem to know- that something is terribly wrong, and that there is a sense of impending doom that is palpable. One can sense it in the air the same way animals can sense an impending storm. We have always been at odds with liberals, but this time it feels different than it did than when Clinton was in office. This time it feels darker, more urgent. It feels malevolent. It feels evil.

            Low information does not begin to describe the problem. I wish it were as simple as a lack of information, because that can be easily cured. I sense it is much, much deeper than that. it is a willful blindness to facts and to reality. I just tonight had a frustrating discussion with a person online who was blaming the obstructionist Republicans for the sequester and not producing a budget. I corrected him, and informed him of the budget process wherein the president proposes the budget, sends it to the House, they amend it, send it to the Senate, they amend it, they send it back and forth between House and Senate until they can reconcile it and eventually pass it.

            He insisted that Obama presented a budget but the "tea b.a.g.g.e.r" Republicans didn't want him to be successful so they refused to look at it. I assured him he has the House confused with Harry Reid's senate, and that Obama has not submitted any serious, substantive budgets in a timely manner for over three years. He refused to concede the facts, even though I provided links to confirm everything I told him.

            This is not low information; it is the rejection of readily available information to preserve an ideology. I am at a loss as to how we overcome willful ignorance and political hackery. I'm not sure we even can.

            Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/02/low_information_voters_how_about_a_low_information_president_comments.html#disqus_thread#ixzz2MDBTUK6E

             
          • jennydoe posted at 11:14 am on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            HTIC I doubt I would be surprised at any issue you had with the Bushes. You seem to be a troubled angry soul. Mad at the world. Nothing ever goes your way. Everything/body is out to ruin yours and your owns future.

            kohana, if your article was from ricochet, I am not surprised it didn't post. everytime you post one to this blog I get a message about a script on this page threatening my computer.
            there are articles abounding about who is IGNORANT. if you truly believe only democrats are filled with IGNORANCE than it is you that is IGNORANT.

            this message was approved with love -
            hennydoe
            like a fine cognac

             
          • kohana posted at 11:06 am on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            http://rubinreports.blogspot.com/

            What John Kerry Doesn’t Know About Democracy and Also About Islam

            Posted: 28 Feb 2013 01:56 AM PST
            By Barry Rubin

            In practically his first outing as secretary of state abroad, John Kerry made some remarkable statements in a meeting with young Germans. The main thing being widely quoted is this:

            “In America, you have a right to be stupid if you want to be,” he said. “And we tolerate it. We somehow make it through that. Now, I think that’s a virtue. I think that’s something worth fighting for.”

            Of course, there’s a right to be stupid in America! Indeed, just this week it's been expanded into having a right to be simultaneously stupid and secretary of defense!

            To be fair, Kerry's statement was in the context of defending, albeit not very well, freedom of speech in America. (Kerry was obviously referencing President Barack Obama’s UN speech in his own talking points.) How Kerry defends it is what's scary and dysfunctional.

            He was basically saying: Yeah, we know that all these dumb people who don’t agree with us are wrong but we let them talk anyway because it works out okay in the end since nobody listens to them anyway. While he used the words “virtue” and “worth fighting for” those sentiments seem to be clumped onto the end for form’s sake. Kerry certainly doesn't say--or understand--that people have rights and government has limits. Instead, he talks as if the ruling elite tolerates such fools because it's so nice.

            That is remarkably different from a more traditional defense of American liberty like: We have seen how in a free market place of ideas the best standpoints generally triumph, people are happier, and prosperity ensues. Or, we believe that people are endowed with rights by their creator and no one can or should take them away.

            Now that standpoint is really “something worth fighting for” and Americans in the institution now run by Chuck Hagel have been doing so for a couple of centuries. No American goes into battle to defend the right to be stupid.

            Oh, wait! Kerry apparently does think so since, as he put it, showing his superior grasp of the English language: “You know, education, if you make the most of it, if you study hard and you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, uh, you, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq. ”So, you have the right to be stupid but watch out because if you are you might end up in the armed forces fighting to defend the right to be stupid!

            In contrast to a proper approach, Kerry makes the American system sound like letting the deranged walk the streets as homeless people, babbling incoherently but doing little harm. Sure, let them cling to their guns and religion while we smart people make all the decisions. He’s merely turning around a traditional left-wing critique of democracy that comes from Herbert Marcuse or Noam Chomsky, of “repressive tolerance.”

            And that seems to be what Kerry and Obama really believe. Ironically, they are the modern-day equivalent of what used to be called right-wing reactionaries ruling a patriarchal society that consists of aristocrats and peasants.

            Another feature of Kerry’s performance was displaying the Obama Administration propensity for apologizing. The question Kerry was answering came from a young German Muslim who merely asked him about his views on Islam. There was no criticism of the United States. It was an invitation to go into a riff about America as a great, tolerant place not to cringe and insist that outside of stupid people the United States America isn’t horribly “Islamophobic.”

            Implied in Kerry’s response was the video that supposedly inspired the Benghazi attack. As you know, this claim is either discredited or, in the words of Kerry’s predecessor, supposedly doesn’t matter. On the verge of his visit to the Middle East, repeating the false notes of the new Obama era national anthem—America the Guilty—is not a good idea.

            Kerry added that he’s reading a book entitled No God but God by Reza Aslan, which he gushingly praises and accepts as his source on Islam. There are, of course, many books on Islam and Kerry is free to read whatever he wants. Yet the choice of this particular one is also revealing.

            What Aslan says in his book fits perfectly with Obama’s Cairo and other speeches, so much so that one wonders if Obama recommended it to him. What’s interesting, though, is that Aslan himself is an Iranian-American who seems to act like a radical Islamist.

            Rather than respond with documented arguments to those who disagree with his views, Aslan has been abusive to anyone going beyond a wonderful religion of peace characterization of contemporary Islam. Perhaps most disturbing, he is a board member of the National Iranian American Council, for all practical purposes the lobbying group in America for Iran’s regime.

            One can say this last fact knowing that the organization’s leader, Trita Parsi, has just lost a law suit against a researcher who made the above accusation.

            Aslan also consistently claims that there is a tidal wave of hatred against Muslims in America, using them as scapegoats for the bad economic situation. Have you noticed any such thing? He also advocates in tweets that people vandalize legal American Freedom Defense Initiative signs in the New York subway. “Hey New York! How many racist ads are left unscathed? Get busy.”

            This doesn’t accord with what Kerry said in his talk in Germany: “….Our country is incredibly tolerant of people of all walks of life and different philosophies and religions.”

            But Aslan clearly doesn’t understand that at all. Yet if he’s correct about Islam than shouldn’t he amend his own behavior? Perhaps, however, his performances reflect something about the accuracy of what he writes. And if his Islam is so moderate then why doesn’t he condemn—rather than lobby for—Iran’s regime?

            A key factor in his approach is to blame any problem with the perception of Islam in the West to Western bigotry and ignorance. Why, then, isn’t there a lot of nasty stuff going on regarding Hinduism, Sikhism, Buddhism, the Jains, or various other religions?

            Any honest approach, no matter how supportive or apologetic for Islam, must acknowledge that certain political events have a relationship to this factor of fear and dislike. Once the issue of terrorism, radical ideology, and different interpretations of Islam (including those of such people as Usama bin Ladin and Ruhollah Khomeini) is discussed, though, Aslan would have to make counter-arguments. And to do that he would have to admit that there are certain statements in Islamic texts and events in Islam’s history that helped lead to these outcomes.

            Aslan has said that "if you know one Muslim, it cuts in half the negativity rating you have toward Islam.” Makes sense. But that depends on who that "one Muslim" is. The main threat to Islam's reputation is not evil "Islamophobes" but radical or terrorist Muslims and the powerful ideology they have unleashed that runs the lives of several hundred million people, threatens many millions more, and has killed a lot of Americans.

            How is Aslan’s idealized, apologetic, dishonest view going to help a U.S. secretary of state facing radical states driven by a passionately felt view that they are implementing proper Islam and that if you disagree they will kill you, not just deface their signs in New York subways?

            Option A: Kerry lectures the Muslim Brotherhood on how it doesn’t understand Islam properly and tells them to read Aslan.
            Option B: Kerry thinks that the Muslim Brotherhood and other groups are really moderate precisely because they are so eager to practice the religion of peace portrayed by Aslan.

            Pretending there’s no elephant in the world doesn’t protect anyone from getting trampled. In fact, that makes it far more likely that people will get trampled.

            This article is published on PJMedia.

             
          • mooseberryinn posted at 10:59 am on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            mooseberryinn Posts: 2685

            Ah Jennie - maybe it's a CO problem ya got there? Not making clear thoughts etc? Pot-us Obama, A.K.A. - Merry stoned King Obumpus, is a wanna-be dictator or King etc. He wants to "replace the constitution" (his words). He threatens the American people with thousands being layed-off, furloughed, with services delayed, with insecure borders (when were they secure?). etc. etc. All this for a 2% cut in proposed spending? Ya sure you betcha..... Maybe we'll just rename his majesty old King Bully Obumpus. it fits so well.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 10:47 am on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6597

            HTC: "While progressives are frequently known to tilt at windmills, I do not. You don't cure disease by attempting to mask its symptoms (the Democratic approach.)"

            Well, Doc., you're bedside manner suks, which is probably why most of the 'patients' are a little timid about writing anything except what you want to hear. Maybe you should spread those little emotional wings a bit, and take a class at FVCC in satire? You know, a little emotional cushion to soften the "It's Terminal! You're going to DIE!. Get used to IT!".

             
          • kohana posted at 10:17 am on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            I'm having trouble getting my post past the computer censor, can't find any profanity. ??? I've sent Frank a copy, and hope he can reply soon.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 9:51 am on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            hennydoe: What is incredible is you HTIC, placing all the blame on democrats. Shame.

            HTC: Once again, you've got it all wrong. I don't blame the Democrats exclusively. It would no doubt surprise you to learn of the lengthy list of issues that I had with G.W. Bush and his father.

            I'm an equal opportunity party basher (that's why I'm an independent); but, right now, we have a Democrat in the White House and a confirmed Marxist to boot. We also have a Democratically-controlled Senate which has not met their Constitutionally mandated job of producing a budget in four years! We also stand on the brink of national bankruptcy, thanks to the massive nanny state which is mostly the creation of the Democratic Party.

            While progressives are frequently known to tilt at windmills, I do not. You don't cure disease by attempting to mask its symptoms (the Democratic approach.)

            Hopefully some day you'll open your eyes and see that world around you as it really is. As for me, I'm not going to hold my breath on that one.

             
          • kohana posted at 9:46 am on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109


            jennydoe posted at 9:16 am on Thu, Feb 28, 2013
            "What is incredible is you HTIC, placing all the blame on democrats."

            I am finally convinced jennydoe that your comprehension is nil. HTC hasn't placed all the blame on democrats, he places the blame on IGNORANCE, of which democrats seem to have more of than most other people. I wish I could put the word IGNORANCE in bold type folks could take notice. Please read all of my next post.

             
          • who new posted at 9:36 am on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            who new Posts: 367

            No, illegal immigrants aren’t destroying California

            February 26, 2013
            Conn Carroll
            Senior Editorial Writer, The Washington Examiner

            The Washington Examiner published Part II of our California in Crisis series today, and already I am getting emails asking why illegal immigration has not been mentioned, and will not be mentioned, in the series. Long story short, illegal immigration isn’t the problem.

            It is true that California has the largest Hispanic population in the nation, clocking in at a little over 14 million. But as a percentage of the entire population, California is tied with Texas for second in the nation (behind New Mexico). According to the latest Census estimates, Hispanics make up exactly 38.1 percent of both California’s and Texas’ total populations.

            Texas, however, has done a much better job of assimilating Hispanics than California has. A language other than English is spoken in more than 40 percent of all California homes. That number is just 34 percent in Texas. Hispanics own almost 21 percent of all businesses in Texas. That number is just 16 percent in California.

            But there is one thing California is great at: getting immigrants hooked on welfare. California is home to just 10 percent of the entire U.S. population but also has one third of its total welfare recipients. California’s population is just 50 percent larger than Texas, but its welfare caseload is ten times as large. That dependency culture gets passed to California immigrants as well.

            While just 1.9 percent of all Texans are on welfare, 4.1 percent of all Californians are. The numbers are even worse for the foreign-born, non-U.S. citizen population. In Texas, just 2.1 percent of all foreign-born, non-U.S. citizens are on welfare. California has more than triple that percentage of foreign-born, non-U.S. citizens on welfare, at 6.6. percent.

            California does not have an illegal immigrant problem. It has a welfare problem.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 9:27 am on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            Bob Woodward trolled us .......

            http://dailycaller.com/2013/02/28/bob-woodward-trolled-us-and-we-got-played
            --------------
            But it was good to see JEB up to the task of posting[smile]

             
          • jennydoe posted at 9:16 am on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            I had to overlook bush 2's lies and can see that the GOP is still butthurt that they lost, whilst they poured so much money into campaigning, such a shame.
            Also, it is hard to feel sorry for the subway guy. 38,000 franchises in 35 years. oh boo hoo. meanwhile their minimum wage employees struggling for tips is okay, huh? How's that subway in C Falls doing?
            Does anyone really eat there?

            What is incredible is you HTIC, placing all the blame on democrats. Shame.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 9:09 am on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            got some news for you moose: The President of the United States of America (POTUS)[7] is the head of state and head of government of the United States. The president leads the executive branch of the federal government and is the commander-in-chief of the United States Armed Forces.

            suc it

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:51 am on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            jennydoe posted at 8:09 am on Thu, Feb 28, 2013

            So you're willing to completely overlook the fact that Obama lied big time in denying that the sequester was his idea? You're willing to overlook his continued campaign to wrongly put the blame for it on the GOP and to paint them as haters of the middle class? You're willing to overlook his lying and fear-mongering about the consequences of the sequester going into effect? You're willing to overlook all of his long string of lies which make Nixon look like a mere apprentice compared to this master of lies?

            Incredible!

             
          • mooseberryinn posted at 8:36 am on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            mooseberryinn Posts: 2685

            Yes indeedy - the entertainment of; The rule of Mad King Obumpus, careens on with all due chaos. Ya gotta admit, (aside from the carnage) this moron is entertaining. Can you imagine that poor guy Carney? He'll retire soon with ulcers from ricocheting from each daily crisis. So, crisis of the day - Obama's sequester thingy - If this comes to pass, the sky will fall. golly, that's a shame. The King will hurt Americans to show everyone who doesn't agree with him, that he's the boss and woe to his subjects.
            Gun control - gotta stop all those freedom loving Americans from having weapons. Oh wait, that's a constitutional thing! Whatever, just ignore the constitution. and so it goes. Careening merrily from one crisis to the next. So what's the next crisis? The party store has to order up funny stickers and stuff.[beam]

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:16 am on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            JBSTONE: The e-mail had him "very uncomfortable to have the White House telling reporters you're going to regret doing something."

            HTC: Good hearing from you, JB.

            Obama is a political thug from the Chcago hood and a pathological liar. He could literally sprout horns and breathe fire out his nostrils and the MSM would fail to report it and Obamatons would continue to deny it.

            There is nothing more stupid in this world than an Obama supporter.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 8:09 am on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198


            By MIKE ALLEN and JIM VANDEHEI | 2/28/13 8:30 AM EST
            POLITICO’s “Behind the Curtain” column last night quoted Bob Woodward as saying that a senior White House official has told him in an email he would “regret” questioning White House statements on the origins of sequestration. The official in question is Gene Sperling, economic adviser to the president. The White House has since pushed back, saying the exchange was far more innocuous than Woodward claims.

            We have obtained, exclusively, the exchange. Here it is:

            From Gene Sperling to Bob Woodward on Feb. 22, 2013

            Bob:

            I apologize for raising my voice in our conversation today. My bad. I do understand your problems with a couple of our statements in the fall — but feel on the other hand that you focus on a few specific trees that gives a very wrong perception of the forest. But perhaps we will just not see eye to eye here.

            But I do truly believe you should rethink your comment about saying saying that Potus asking for revenues is moving the goal post. I know you may not believe this, but as a friend, I think you will regret staking out that claim. The idea that the sequester was to force both sides to go back to try at a big or grand barain with a mix of entitlements and revenues (even if there were serious disagreements on composition) was part of the DNA of the thing from the start. It was an accepted part of the understanding — from the start. Really. It was assumed by the Rs on the Supercommittee that came right after: it was assumed in the November-December 2012 negotiations. There may have been big disagreements over rates and ratios — but that it was supposed to be replaced by entitlements and revenues of some form is not controversial. (Indeed, the discretionary savings amount from the Boehner-Obama negotiations were locked in in BCA: the sequester was just designed to force all back to table on entitlements and revenues.)

            I agree there are more than one side to our first disagreement, but again think this latter issue is diffferent. Not out to argue and argue on this latter point. Just my sincere advice. Your call obviously.

            My apologies again for raising my voice on the call with you. Feel bad about that and truly apologize.

            Gene

            From Woodward to Sperling on Feb. 23, 2013

            Gene: You do not ever have to apologize to me. You get wound up because you are making your points and you believe them. This is all part of a serious discussion. I for one welcome a little heat; there should more given the importance. I also welcome your personal advice. I am listening. I know you lived all this. My partial advantage is that I talked extensively with all involved. I am traveling and will try to reach you after 3 pm today. Best, Bob

            Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/02/exclusive-the-woodward-sperling-emails-revealed-88226.html#ixzz2MCsM8VpK

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:08 am on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            Pete: Subway Founder: Subway Would Not Exist If Started Today Due to Government Regulations

            HTC: Polls of America's CEOs continue to show that they regard the regulatory burden to be their biggest impediment to growth and job creation, with their tax burden right behind it. Economists agree with them, citing studies which have shown that the regulatory burden, in cost of compliance, policing, legal expenses, etc. amounting to a whopping $4T a year. ObamaCare is about to add another half trillion dollars a year on top of that.

            That's a hidden 25% tax on GDP!

            As usual, the infinitely ignorant electorate still thinks that labor costs are the reason why companies move some or all of their operations overseas, as they stupidly demand more regulations on business in a vain attempt to hold business hostage to their selfish interests.

            Will they ever learn?

             
          • Rob123 posted at 6:14 am on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6597

            http://www.subway.com/subwayroot/about_us/TimeLine.aspx

             
          • Rob123 posted at 5:49 am on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6597

            Pete: "polite? Ummm....no. It's a big country...they're not all like Alberta and eastern B.C.".

            That is more of a Rural vs Urban phenomena.
            http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=barbarian

            Back in the day, when my mom was living in West Vancouver, B.C., it was fast paced and very friendly, assuming you had a wad of money and no fear of spending it. Very Urban. Of course, if one drove up to the British Properties, it got quite snooty, but soon one realized the lack of smiles, and physical distance when communicating, had to do with the condition of their rotting, tea stained teeth, and not so much their 'true self'. (-:

             
          • Pete posted at 5:29 am on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Subway Founder: Subway Would Not Exist If Started Today Due to Government Regulations

            http://freebeacon.com/subway-founder-subway-would-not-exist-if-started-today-due-to-government-regulations/#sthash.DuvZnveK.dpuf

             
          • Pete posted at 5:17 am on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            It's a beautiful day posted at 6:26 pm on Wed, Feb 27, 2013

            "IABD- Your are absolutely correct...People from Quebec are the most polite."

            Quoi? Êtes-vous fou?

            "They don't come across the border, drive DUI without penalty and trash the local motels like the Albertan's & BCr's have."

            Il pourrait avoir quelque chose à voir avec la distance? En outre, ils seraient obligés de traverser un territoire occupé anglais pour arriver ici et qui serait plus ennuyeux.

            Quant à la Colombie-Britannique et de l'Alberta ... vous savez ce qu'on dit, "When in Rome ...."

             
          • Rob123 posted at 3:03 am on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6597

            JBSTONE: ""[W]hen the president asks that a substitute for the sequester include not just spending cuts but also new revenue, he is moving the goal posts," Woodward wrote."

            It's amazing how nasty cutting 00.025 cents out of a $1.00 spent can be? Another footnote to Plato?

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsSXMT0NrB4

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 12:05 am on Thu, Feb 28, 2013.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558


            Veteran journalist Bob Woodward claims Obama officials 'threatened' him
            Posted: Feb 27, 2013 8:57 PM MST Updated: Feb 27, 2013 9:02 PM MST


            Woodward penned a 2012 book reporting that the idea for the spending cuts, known as the sequester, originated with the White House. (Source: CNN) Woodward penned a 2012 book reporting that the idea for the spending cuts, known as the sequester, originated with the White House. (Source: CNN)

            LOCALMore>>
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            (CNN) - Veteran journalist Bob Woodward said Wednesday he was threatened by a senior Obama administration official following his reporting on the White House's handling of the forced federal spending cuts set to take effect on Friday.

            "They're not happy at all," he said on CNN's "The Situation Room," adding that an e-mail from a senior administration official - who he would not name - communicated a message which caused him great concern.

            "It was said very clearly, you will regret doing this," he said.

            Woodward penned a 2012 book reporting that the idea for the spending cuts, known as the sequester, originated with the White House. It's a claim President Barack Obama originally denied, but the White House has since acknowledged.

            But it was language that he used in an op-ed published over the weekend in The Washington Post that drew what he said was the Obama administration response.

            "[W]hen the president asks that a substitute for the sequester include not just spending cuts but also new revenue, he is moving the goal posts," Woodward wrote. "His call for a balanced approach is reasonable, and he makes a strong case that those in the top income brackets could and should pay more. But that was not the deal he made."

            Headlined "Obama's sequester deal-changer," it was widely cited by Republicans seeking to avert the across-the-board cuts without a tax increase.

            "The fundamental question here the president has to decide - does he wanna be president of a political party or does he want to be president of the United States?" House Speaker John Boehner asked at a Tuesday news conference. "It is time for leadership."

            Obama, however, has argued for an approach that "balances" spending cuts and tax increases.

            "I've laid out a plan that details how we can pay down our deficit in a way that's balanced and responsible," he said at an event in Virginia the same day. "We have the plan right on a website, the White House website. Everybody can go see it. It details exactly how we can cut programs that don't work, how we can raise money by closing loopholes that are only serving a few, as opposed to the average American."

            While the days now turn to hours before the cuts kick in on Friday, Republicans and Democrats have not engaged in the sort of negotiations they have held before deadlines in previous fiscal crises.

            Woodward said on CNN that the White House objection to his reporting has no basis in facts.

            "It's irrefutable. That's exactly what happened," he said. "I'm not saying this is a moving of the goal posts that was a criminal act or something like that. I'm just saying that's what happened."

            CNN extended multiple invitations to the White House to appear on the "The Situation Room," including after Woodward began his interview, but the invitations were not accepted.

            The e-mail had him "very uncomfortable to have the White House telling reporters you're going to regret doing something."

            "Let's hope it's not the strategy," he said.

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 10:17 pm on Wed, Feb 27, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            HighTechCowboy posted at 9:27 pm on Wed, Feb 27, 2013.
            HTC- Sheesh....

            IABD- Ah, this word Sheesh splains it all. Sheesh originated from the muslim word Hashish and was street slang in San Francisco when you started your beat. Obviously you may have an altered higher sense of reality and scientific fiction origin of species than the other mere mortals with your street experience. Or have you ever been experienced?

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zg2segLZoeA

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 9:38 pm on Wed, Feb 27, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            HighTechCowboy posted at 9:27 pm on Wed, Feb 27, 2013.

            Do you believe that you are evolved from apes or an alien hybrid? Not quite sure where your coming from.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 9:27 pm on Wed, Feb 27, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            IABD: How can you proclaim you are not a Christian but be an agnostic who believes in creationism?

            HTC: Like Bronco, you can read, but not with any respectable degree of comprehension.

            I've never said I believed in creationism nor have I advocated for it in any way. What I've made perfectly clear to the intelligent reader is that the 'theory' of evolution cannot explain the orign of life, even though it is frequently taught as having already solved that vexing problem.

            Got it now?

            Sheesh....

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 9:23 pm on Wed, Feb 27, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            Bronco: Forget it, HTC. You refuse to stay on the same page. You started out by discrediting Darwin's Theory of Evolution stating it's part of some Liberal Agenda.

            HTC: Once again you demonstrate that you can read, just not with comprehension. What I said was that it is commonly taught as though it is scientific fact, when it hasn't actually even earned the status of "theory", per properly applied scientific methodology. That's the truth of the matter, whether you like it/understand it or not.

            In addition, few evolutionary biologists today would call themselves "Darwinian" evolutionists. The study has moved far byeond the simple and substantially misguided tenets of "Origin of the Species". Obviously you never got the memo.

            Please do try to keep up.

            Bronco: I say it's a sound theory and you counter by attacking the origins of life. Come up with a better theory of evolution and tell us all about it. Stop bringing up subjects we aren't addressing. You seem confused. Maybe that sole theory the Conservative Agenda has fits into your world view. Didn't even need science for that one: just believe.

            HTC: The only one confused here, as usual, is you. At least you have some entertainment value. I'm sure many who read your posts are given to fits of belly laughing.

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 8:37 pm on Wed, Feb 27, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            laker1 posted at 8:14 pm on Wed, Feb 27, 2013.

            Canada does have more censorship and more hate crime legislation than any other country in the world resulting in fewer deaths by firearms per capita. Canadian officials probably can't legally tell us whether William Shatner's NRA ad was official sponsored by the Canadian National Rifle Association either. It may be a violation of the Prime Directive.

             
          • laker1 posted at 8:14 pm on Wed, Feb 27, 2013.

            laker1 Posts: 110

            CONSTITUTION ACT, 1982
            1982, c. 11 (U.K.), Schedule B
            PART I
            CANADIAN CHARTER OF RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS

            Whereas Canada is founded upon principles that recognize the supremacy of God and the rule of law:

            GUARANTEE OF RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS

            1. The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.

            FUNDAMENTAL FREEDOMS

            2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:
            (a) freedom of conscience and religion;
            (b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;
            (c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and
            (d) freedom of association.

            http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/Const/page-15.html

             
          • Bronco posted at 6:33 pm on Wed, Feb 27, 2013.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            Forget it, HTC. You refuse to stay on the same page. You started out by discrediting Darwin's Theory of Evolution stating it's part of some Liberal Agenda. I say it's a sound theory and you counter by attacking the origins of life. Come up with a better theory of evolution and tell us all about it. Stop bringing up subjects we aren't addressing. You seem confused. Maybe that sole theory the Conservative Agenda has fits into your world view. Didn't even need science for that one: just believe.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 6:30 pm on Wed, Feb 27, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6597

            HTC: "Those who continue to defend Darwin and seek to add credence to his theories are still to this day looking for that "essential chain of chemical reactions" by which to explain the origin of life and, along with it, the origin of that critically necessary first specie of life, the single-celled organism."

            They will find it, sooner or later. Or maybe not? Probably best to just keep looking, and try not to blow the world up, over a theory.

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 6:26 pm on Wed, Feb 27, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            Pete posted at 4:16 pm on Wed, Feb 27, 2013.

            Pete-" With all due respect to my Canadian cousins, polite? Ummm....no. It's a big country...they're not all like Alberta and eastern B.C."

            IABD- Your are absolutely correct...People from Quebec are the most polite. They don't come across the border, drive DUI without penalty and trash the local motels like the Albertan's & BCr's have.

             
          • Pete posted at 4:16 pm on Wed, Feb 27, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Rob123 posted at 2:05 pm on Wed, Feb 27, 2013

            "So, Canadians tend to be better educated and a lot more polite because the government dictates this?"

            The first part isn't much to brag about and the second part made me chuckle. With all due respect to my Canadian cousins, polite? Ummm....no. It's a big country...they're not all like Alberta and eastern B.C.

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 3:05 pm on Wed, Feb 27, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            HighTechCowboy posted at 2:23 pm on Wed, Feb 27, 2013

            Scientology consists of fundamentalists who deny evolution for a comic-book version of creationism written by a lunatic named L.Ron Hubbard. Scientologists are no longer monitored by police and many policeman are followers. How can you proclaim you are not a Christian but be an agnostic who believes in creationism? Would that possibly make you a Scientologist or one of Romney's followers maybe?
            Remember always: Libertarians are to liberty as Scientologists are to science. Evoluion is a true science.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 2:23 pm on Wed, Feb 27, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            Bronco: Apparently you don’t understand the difference between the Theory of Evolution and the theory of the origin of life. When Charles Darwin published The Origin of Species 150 years ago he consciously avoided discussing the origin of life. The appearance of life and the Origin of Species are two separate issues.

            HTC: It is you who lacks understanding. Macroevolution is the process which results in the formation of new taxonomic groups (species); therefore, it is inseparable from any theory regarding the origin of species. The very first species to appear were single cell organisms. To claim to understand the origin of species without explaining the first species to appear is simply insane and grossly intellectually dishonest.

            Darwin initially avoided the subject of the first appearance of life in the form of single-celled organisms because his knowledge of cellular biology was limited as was the science of such things at that time. Incredibly he wrote "…it is no valid objection that science as yet throws no light on the far higher problem of the essence or origin of life." His completely illogical and unscientific wholesale dismissal of the biggest problem with his theory and the most critical first step in his process s one reason why many mocked his theory.

            Later, in an attempt to gain back some of the considerable credibility that he'd lost, Darwin asserted that it was "not improbable" that life could have spontaneously generated itself from some essential chain of chemical reactions that had to occur when conditions and ingredients lent themselves to it.

            Those who continue to defend Darwin and seek to add credence to his theories are still to this day looking for that "essential chain of chemical reactions" by which to explain the origin of life and, along with it, the origin of that critically necessary first specie of life, the single-celled organism.

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 2:11 pm on Wed, Feb 27, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            HighTechCowboy posted at 12:49 pm on Wed, Feb 27, 2013.

            HTC- "Unfortunately for Canadians, their Charter of Rights and Freedoms contains no First Amendment nor Second Amendment equivalent and any speech which the government doesn't like can be prosecuted under one-sided slander, libel and even 'hate' speech laws."

            IABD- Let us not forget the 1st hate crime laws originated in California. These laws must have made your life unbearable for you. Being unable to be all that you could be as a San Francisco policeman, you moved to Montana and made us all feel your pain. You figured out that the Last Best Place to be a libertine agitator had to be here.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 2:05 pm on Wed, Feb 27, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6597

            "HTC: Something else you fail to understand is that bull$hit regurgitated a hundred times by other ill-informed liberal media and blogs doesn't make it 'documented'. It mere makes it a bigger, steamier pile."

            So, Canadians tend to be better educated and a lot more polite because the government dictates this? While us Yanks, in Sec. of State John Kerry's words to the Germans a couple days ago, have the Constitutional Right to be stupid? I get it![scared]

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 12:49 pm on Wed, Feb 27, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            reggie posted at 9:35 am on Wed, Feb 27, 2013

            What your nondiscerning liberal mind is failing to grasp here is that these other media outlets are not seeking "permission to lie"; rather they're seeking restrictions on government power because they're concerned that they risk malicious and wrongful prosecution by a state which has made itself the sole judge of what constitutes the 'truth', as well as given itself the power to bankrupt or even imprison those who dare to expose its many faults, fallacies and frauds.

            Unfortunately for Canadians, their Charter of Rights and Freedoms contains no First Amendment nor Second Amendment equivalent and any speech which the government doesn't like can be prosectued under one-sided slander, libel and even 'hate' speech laws.

            reggie posted at 11:13 am on Wed, Feb 27, 2013

            HTC: Something else you fail to understand is that bull$hit regurgitated a hundred times by other ill-informed liberal media and blogs doesn't make it 'documented'. It mere makes it a bigger, steamier pile.

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 11:42 am on Wed, Feb 27, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            More efficient for home defense than Joe Biden's shotgun and no registration required:

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QS4RKoRyTik

             
          • Bronco posted at 11:40 am on Wed, Feb 27, 2013.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            HTC: ...our public school system...excels at propagandizing our children about a broad range of issues...Teaching the evolutionary hypothesis as fact.
            ---------------
            Bronco: ...you say organisms do not evolve?
            ---------------
            HTC: Microbiologists who are much smarter than you or I have begun to question evolutionists' story about the origin of life,...Macroevolution, per the scientific method, has not been able to advance beyond the level of hypothesis. That's simple fact.
            
---------------

            Bronco: Selective breeding has evolved/devolved Rob's puddles from Asian wolves. That in a mere 15,000 years. Un-selective breeding certainly takes longer.
            ----------------
            HTC: Apparently you don't understand the difference between the two kinds of evolution, let alone have any grasp of what would be required to produce a single living cell from some kind of primordial soup.
            Everything always looks simpler and possible to those ignorant of the real complexities involved. You are certainly possessed by the progressive's mindset rather than a discerning intellect. How sad for you.
            ----------------
            Bronco: Apparently you don’t understand the difference between the Theory of Evolution and the theory of the origin of life. When Charles Darwin published The Origin of Species 150 years ago he consciously avoided discussing the origin of life. The appearance of life and the Origin of Species are two separate issues.
            No one claims you were evolved from a monkey. Neither the Theory of Evolution nor conclusions from it say anything of the sort. What IS said, is that we share a common ancestor with apes.
            In Darwin’s 1861 3rd edition of The Origin of Species, he wrote about the distinction between the origin of life and nature of life:
            “I have now recapitulated the chief facts and considerations which have thoroughly convinced me that species have been modified, during a long course of descent, by the preservation or the natural selection of many successive slight favourable variations. I cannot believe that a false theory would explain, as it seems to me that the theory of natural selection does explain, the several large classes of facts above specified. It is no valid objection that science as yet throws no light on the far higher problem of the essence or origin of life. Who can explain what is the essence of the attraction of gravity? No one now objects to following out the results consequent on this unknown element of attraction; notwithstanding that Leibnitz formerly accused Newton of introducing “occult qualities and miracles into philosophy”

            In The Variation of Animals and Plants Under Domestication (1868) he wrote:
            “It is the consideration and explanation of such facts as these which has convinced me that the theory of descent with modification by means of natural selection is in the main true. These facts have as yet received no explanation on the theory of independent Creations; they cannot be grouped together under one point of view, but each has to be considered as an ultimate fact. As the first origin of life on this earth, as well as the continued life of each individual, is at present quite beyond the scope of science, I do not wish to lay much stress on the greater simplicity of the view of a few forms, or of only one form, having been originally created, instead of innumerable miraculous creations having been necessary at innumerable periods; though this more simple view accords well with Maupertuis’s philosophical axiom ‘of least action’”

            “As for myself I cannot believe in spontaneous generation & though I expect that at some future time the principle of life will be rendered intelligible, at present it seems to me beyond the confines of science.”

            A letter on March 28, 1882, to George Charles Wallich

            My dear Sir,
            You expressed quite correctly my views where you say that I had intentionally left the question of the Origin of Life uncanvassed as being altogether ultra vires in the present state of our knowledge, & that I dealt only with the manner of succession. I have met with no evidence that seems in the least trustworthy, in favour of the so-called Spontaneous generation. I believe that I have somewhere said (but cannot find the passage) that the principle of continuity renders it probable that the principle of life will hereafter be shown to be a part, or consequence of some general law; but this is only conjecture and not science.
            I remain, my dear Sir,
            Yours very faithfully
            Charles Darwin

             
          • reggie posted at 11:13 am on Wed, Feb 27, 2013.

            reggie Posts: 88

            Google: fox's misinformation effect, or go to this article (www.salon.com/2012/04/10/foxs_misinf) it is well documented and includes references to many years of surveys from many different sources.

            Although it details why most readers/commenters here will probably not read it, I include it for those who still seek truth instead of confirmation of existing beliefs. If you read this, it may be harder to continue to deny facts and reality........Fox News misinforms!

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 9:51 am on Wed, Feb 27, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            http://www.jonathanrauch.com/jrauch_articles/nixon_20th_centurys_worst_president/

             
          • reggie posted at 9:35 am on Wed, Feb 27, 2013.

            reggie Posts: 88

            Sun TV, a Canadian anology for Fox News (i.e. a brodcast news outfit with radical consrevative perspective)proposed the Canadian Radio- Television and Telecommunication Commission relax the rule prohibiting "brodcasting false and misleading news".As the tone, language, and buzzwords could have come directly from Bill O'Reilly, outsiders quickly labeled it "Fox News North". The CRTC withdrew the proposal when a legislative committe decided the existing rule does not violate the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms". So a copycat of Fox news tried to get the law changed, to allow lieing during news brodcasts, not Fox News itself.

            Regarding Fox News channel 13 in Tampa winning the appeals court decision to overturn the jury; the court found that the FCC policy against "distorting the news" does not rise to the level of a law or regulation.... In short, the court bought Fox's argument that there is NO LAW to stop them from deliberatly falsifying the news.

             
          • bill39 posted at 8:11 am on Wed, Feb 27, 2013.

            bill39 Posts: 1050

            [offtopic]

             
          • Rob123 posted at 4:07 am on Wed, Feb 27, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6597

            I've been doing some homework, as I decided to retake my SAT just to see where I stand, today, in relation to High School kids. The verbal has been a real challenge!

            http://karmaskorner.com/laughing/l93.html

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 10:21 pm on Tue, Feb 26, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            It's a beautiful day posted at 5:30 pm on Tue, Feb 26, 2013

            HTC: Did you read the rest of that speech? This excerpt certainly puts him at odds with Obama and his policies:

            "I do not believe in a superstate. I see no magic in tax dollars which are sent to Washington and then returned. I abhor the waste and incompetence of large-scale federal bureaucracies in this administration as well as in others. I do not favor state compulsion when voluntary individual effort can do the job and do it well."

            Of course, Jack's famous "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country" really contrasts JFK with his party today which he'd barely recognize. The Democratic Party today is the party of LBJ, NOT of JFK who was constantly at odds with LBJ over everything from national security to the proper relationship between the citizen and the federal government.

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 7:50 pm on Tue, Feb 26, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            mooseberryinn posted at 10:10 am on Sun, Feb 24, 2013.

            Mooseberry- "For the most part - Fox news has done the best job of following the bouncing ball."

            IABD- Mooseberry where on earth do you come up with this stuff? it is truly bizarre. Was this quote from the NRA's Eddie Eagle weely readers for the grade schoolers?

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 7:40 pm on Tue, Feb 26, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/02/25/1189780/-The-ideological-Jiu-Jitsu-of-the-GOP-in-Hawaii

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 7:03 pm on Tue, Feb 26, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            Gun deaths outpace motor vehicle deaths in 10 states in 2009
            IABD: Hey, maybe the NRA's anti-American propaganda is working! Just a thought.

            http://www.vpc.org/studies/gunsvscars.pdf

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 5:30 pm on Tue, Feb 26, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            "If by a 'Liberal' they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people -- their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties -- someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a 'Liberal,' then I'm proud to say I'm a 'Liberal.'"
            John F. Kennedy, Democrat

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 5:16 pm on Tue, Feb 26, 2013.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1563

            "I have the feeling that only Bernie Madoff has the time and understanding to fully appreciate what is going on in these graphs?"

            Not to worry, our resident know it all will explain it (in full color Obama hate speak) right after he finishes his afternoon nappy time.

             
          • mooseberryinn posted at 5:02 pm on Tue, Feb 26, 2013.

            mooseberryinn Posts: 2685

            IABD - Dailykos??? heh, heh, heh. OK, must be you and reggie are about on the same level. Too bad. so sad, etc.

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 4:53 pm on Tue, Feb 26, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/02/26/1189724/-Drone-medals-of-valor

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 4:46 pm on Tue, Feb 26, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            It's a beautiful day posted at 4:21 pm on Tue, Feb 26, 2013.

            Excuse my history error. Joe McCarthy died before he JFK took office but suspected the whole Kennedy family and had them on his enemies list. McCarthyism is unwarranted hatred that kills and still lingers on still to this day. J Edgar Hoover and Nixon carried on the hate crusade for McCarthy. McCarthyism is the practice of making accusations of disloyalty, subversion, or treason without proper regard for evidence. When you stated : "even though history has proven that McCarthy was right", what history text book where you reading from?

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 4:21 pm on Tue, Feb 26, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            Frank Miele- "history has proven that McCarthy was right"...

            IABD- So therefore it is logical to assume the DIL's policy is to propagandize the neoconservative Joseph McCarthy being right all along and liberalism being dead wrong. Let's all forget about McCarthy hating the Kennedy family while JFK stood up to Khruschev and the communist threat in Cuba and the Bay of Pigs.

            I found it very peculiar that in world history taught in Flathead High School international baccalaureate class in 2006, JFK was considered the worst leader in the world from the textbooks my daughter brought home.

            The international baccalaureate high school program is headquartered in Switzerland and student tests are graded in different countries around the world. There is certainly a world-wide neoconservative dumbing down going on. Of course there are a lot of former Nazi's who live and prosper in Switzerland as well.

            Thankfully my daughter is now getting a liberal education at the University of Washington..And when I think back at all the crap I learned in high school, I will still remember the POS Richard Nixon's picture on the wall.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 2:00 pm on Tue, Feb 26, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6597

            www.google.com/search?q=fed+balance+sheet+2012&hl=en&rlz=1C1GGGE_enUS359&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=B6UsUbaFHYPuiQLU3YCABQ&ved=0CEcQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=653)

            I have the feeling that only Bernie Madoff has the time and understanding to fully appreciate what is going on in these graphs?

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 1:42 pm on Tue, Feb 26, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            reggie: It seems you only skimed the foxbghsuit website, high talk.

            HTC: No, you just don't read with comprehension.

            reggie: Whial I'm at it, another reason to not trust the liers at fox "news" is the fact that fox cannot get a brodcast license (after much money spent trying) in Canada.

            HTC: Been a long time since you've been to Canada? Or do you only trust what you read in the liberal blogosphere?

            FoxNews is readily available in Canada, both by cable and satellite. Fox never was interested in "over the air" broadcasting up there for a number of financial and market reasons.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 1:19 pm on Tue, Feb 26, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6597

            "I did think the article was thoughtful, readable, and a good explanation for many of our readers. RLS"

            [thumbup]

             
          • mooseberryinn posted at 11:48 am on Tue, Feb 26, 2013.

            mooseberryinn Posts: 2685

            reggie - where on earth do you come up with this stuff? it is truly bizarre.

             
          • reggie posted at 11:24 am on Tue, Feb 26, 2013.

            reggie Posts: 88

            It seems you only skimed the foxbghsuit website, high talk.

            It is true that the appeals court (not the supreme court) overturned the jury, after several other judges refused to, on a technicality regarding the whistleblowers law. Not on the substance of the complaint, which was based on reporters refusing to read LIES in news brodcasts on Fox 13 in Florida.

            It is also true that the relationship between breast, colon, and prostrate cancer in increased numbers due to the use of rBGH, although real, has not been absolutely proven to come from the use rBGH.

            Much like all other genitically modified foods, rBGH has not been thoroughrly tested because monsanto (and others) do everything they can to influence regulators to approve based on a few inhouse studies that world scientists don't accept because they can't duplicate these questionable studies.

            Whial I'm at it, another reason to not trust the liers at fox "news" is the fact that fox cannot get a brodcast license (after much money spent trying) in Canada. Unlike the U.S. (which used to have laws against lieing during news programs) Canada still has theirs. Even their ultra conservative Prime minister (supporting the conservative reality deniers) couldn't get the legislature to disrespect the public to that extent.

             
          • Rick Spencer posted at 11:19 am on Tue, Feb 26, 2013.

            Rick Spencer Posts: 405

            HTC: I think they all feel there is a way out as they do not come to grips with the long-term, massive unfunded liabilities that exist with Federal, State, and local governments and the deleterious effect that will soon begin to have upon investor behavior. For many, that has been their business, selling such debt. When investors begin to see that danger, then true long term corrective policies may be effected, but I am not hopeful. When I see the behavior of Europe, and the many here who want to emulate it, how could I?

            As for gold, it does not seem to be important to enough investors for it to continue to rise, even though I wish I still had the Canadian Maple Leaves from 1987 that were stolen from my house while on vacation in 1994.

            I did think the article was thoughtful, readable, and a good explanation for many of our readers. RLS

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 11:05 am on Tue, Feb 26, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            President Obama is engaging in the most sinister form of fear-mongering imaginable in his efforts to scare the American people into believing that the sequestration cuts are going to be disasterous and result in major cutbacks to essential services.

            Nothing could be further from the truth.

            The 'cuts' are actually only reductions in the rate of growth of government spending over the next ten years; but, spending will still go up, just not at its old rate of three to four times the rate of inflation. Federal spending as grown nearly 20% under Obama and now we're simply trying to rein in its continued ballooning.

            With the Democrats insisting that a mere 2-3% reduction in the growth of spending is going to be disastrous to 'essential' services, how can we ever hope to avoid the economic crisis that awaits us? When Democrats continue to insist that government does NOT have a spending problem, even though 83% of Americans recognize that it does, how can the GOP ever hope to achieve anything beneficial with those morons?

            If the government were to reduce travel expenses by 25%, eliminate duplicate programs and agencies and end weapons programs that the DoD doesn't want, they'd save nearly twice the $85B per year that are targeted via sequestration, and all without touching ANY essential services. Not one fireman, policeman or teacher would lose his/her job.

            Obama is not only a BIG liar, he's a horrible liar.

            I hope the GOP holds fast and calls his bluff. I can't wait to see the look on that lying idiot's face when the world doesn't come to an end.


             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 10:49 am on Tue, Feb 26, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            Rick Spencer: [Scott Minerd] The long-term downside of mounting inflationary pressure will ultimately accrue to bondholders and income-oriented investors. The case can be made that we are marching headlong into a generational bear-market for bonds. During the next decade, holders of Treasury and agency securities will likely realize negative real returns.

            HTC: Sadly, I know many babyboomers who, after losing much of the value of their 401(k)s and IRAs in the last two bubbles, have moved to bonds and other money-market instruments as the perceived "safe" place to park what they have left. If they don't wise up soon, they're in for a major disappointment.

            Rick Spencer: [Scott Minerd] Gold, as I discussed in my October 2012 Market Perspectives, “Return to Bretton Woods,” has significant upside potentially and should be considered for inclusion in any portfolio designed to preserve or grow wealth over the long-term. Depending on the scale of the current round of quantitative easing and the decline in confidence in fiat currencies, the price of an ounce of gold could easily exceed $2,500 within a relatively short time frame and could ultimately trade much higher.

            HTC: It has seemed to me that gold still had room to rise in value but it's taken a big drop instead. Do you have any thoughts on why that's happened?

            Rick Spencer: [Scott Minerd] Much like that crisis needed Lincoln, the current crisis needs someone who can identify new tools to resolve the present economic crisis. Until then we are condemned to a path which leads to further currency debasement and the erosion of purchasing power, with the result being a massive transfer of wealth from creditor to debtor. Without a new economic paradigm, the deleterious consequences of the current misguided policies are a foregone conclusion.

            HTC: It seems to me that Mr. Minerd is suggesting that there just might be a way out of this mess without a lot of pain and financial loss but I certainly don't see how that's possible. Am I missing something?

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 9:34 am on Tue, Feb 26, 2013.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1563

            HighTechCowboy posted at 2:52 pm on Mon, Feb 25, 2013.

            "HTC: Only an idiot liberal could fail to see the hypocrisy in beginning a response with a long-winded, hate-filled personal attack and then proceed to claim to be caring and compassionate."

            The only thing personal about what I wrote is "rotten eggs" in reference to your genetic line, I apologize for that. The rest of what I wrote is too true for your comfort zone, eh? I know so many people who are suppose to be "conservatives" who do everything I posted and more, that it has become the norm for me to expect nothing better from them. Hell, one of my wealthy friends even makes it a point to ask the "father" for forgiveness after he cheats a little old lady in a huge land purchase where he knowingly paid her a fraction of what the land was worth. He got away with it because he has a trusting demeanor and since her husband had recently passed on, and she didn't know what to do with the burden of dealing with all of that land, he (in his devious mind) said he was "helping her" Bless me father for I have sinned, I only (slightly )misled her by a few million dollars, but I am a fair businessman! But, here father, take this $200.00 tax write off, I mean, tithe, for the wee little children of the church.

            I know you don't want to hear about this kind of behavior being played out across this nation almost daily, but these greedy, ruthless, parasites are endemic of the group of people you seem to protect daily here on this blog. So you can pretend to be ignorant about this issue, or not.

             
          • kohana posted at 9:34 am on Tue, Feb 26, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            Mooseberryinn, I read that as well. Here it is Ricochet's take:

            http://ricochet.com/main-feed/Obama-s-Next-Move

            Obama's Next Move

            Paul A. Rahe · 1 hour ago

            The next two or three weeks should be interesting. Barring some sort of last minute compromise, the sequester will come into effect. Given the size of the federal budget, the actual effects of cutting a few billion -- not from the budget as it existed in 2012 but from its projected increase -- should be trivial. But it is in the power of the President to make it painful; and, if this President is true to form, he will make it as painful as possible.

            Everyone has seen this before at the state level. The legislature trims the projected budget, and the Governor, intent on expanding patronage, responds by declaring an emergency and by cutting access to state parks, library hours . . . you name it. The point is to rally the public against the legislature by cutting popular items while carefully protecting the pork that sustains the Governor's political party.

            This sort of irresponsibility is, I suspect, what we will soon see at the federal level. The difference is that Obama will be more brazen and audacious than any Governor has ever been. I will be flying to New York on Friday to give a talk at the annual meeting of the National Association of Scholars. I would not at all be surprised if there is a shortage of TSA personnel managing the security lines and if the Air Traffic Controllers are in such short supply that things grind almost to a stop. If my guess is right, it will be Obama's calculation that he can soon bring John Boehner, Mitch McConnell, and the Republicans in Congress to their knees. If he makes the attempt and they cave, you can kiss even the most modest attempt at fiscal responsibility goodbye. The name of the game for our President is to force a crisis that will eventuate in massive tax increases -- first on high earners and then on the middle class more generally.

            The Republicans are at a disadvantage. Obama commands the bully pulpit and our partisan press will make sure that he is heard loud and clear. The Republicans do not have a standard-bearer. There is no one authorized to speak for them, and their leadership in Congress, while canny, is anything but eloquent. Senator McConnell, whom I greatly admire, is the master of mumbling, and John Boehner, whom I also admire, is quiet and plain-spoken.

            That is one problem. There is another. CNN, NBC, CBS, ABC, and MSNBC are not going to give the Republicans a platform. They will broadcast Obama's remarks over and over again. They will shut out our representatives.

            What this means is that it will take courage for the Republicans to stand their ground. They and everyone who supports their stand must speak up or much will be lost. The common thread should be simple: "The sequester cuts nothing from last year's budget. It cuts very little from the projected budget for 2013. The President has it in his power to keep things running smoothly, and the misery being inflicted on our fellow citizens is entirely his doing."
            If the Republicans can weather the crisis that Barack Obama has manufactured, if they can stand their ground, Barack Obama's second term will be like most Presidents' second terms -- dreary. Step by step, the malfeasance of his first term will become visible, and he will twist slowly, slowly in the wind.

            If, on the other hand, the Republicans cave, conservatives may well lose heart and sit on their hands or vote Libertarian in November, 2014; and our side may even lose the House of Representatives. A party that stands for nothing, a party that becomes synonymous with weakness, will not attract support. A great deal is at stake in this little tempest in a teapot. In the next few weeks, the Republicans can lay the foundation for a resurgence. Or they can demonstrate their fecklessness and their worthlessness.

            Stay tuned.

            http://ricochet.com/main-feed/Obama-s-Next-Move

             
          • mooseberryinn posted at 9:23 am on Tue, Feb 26, 2013.

            mooseberryinn Posts: 2685

            Notice the "journalists" from MSNBC, CBS ETC. did not report "the press" told to leave the meeting of King Obama and the natl governor's meeting. "transparent"? I don't think so. Then, there's the King Obama "threat campaign" over the 2% cuts in "proposed spending". He is acting like a school yard bully demanding everyone give him their lunch money or he's going to hurt them. Most definitely the lowest bag of slime ever to infest the Whitehouse.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 9:08 am on Tue, Feb 26, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            It's a beautiful day posted at 9:49 pm on Mon, Feb 25, 2013

            If Cronkite truly believed his own words, he'd be ashamed of today's MSM.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 3:34 am on Tue, Feb 26, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6597

            "One good reason not to trust Fox News"

            www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=474391742601320&set=a.224942914212872.59713.210238862349944&type=1&theater

            photo by Glenn Beck T.V.

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 9:49 pm on Mon, Feb 25, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            “I think being a liberal, in the true sense, is being nondoctrinaire, nondogmatic, non-committed to a cause - but examining each case on its merits. Being left of center is another thing; it's a political position. I think most newspapermen by definition have to be liberal; if they're not liberal, by my definition of it, then they can hardly be good newspapermen. If they're preordained dogmatists for a cause, then they can't be very good journalists; that is, if they carry it into their journalism.”
            ― Walter Cronkite

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 9:42 pm on Mon, Feb 25, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            Libra41 posted at 9:04 pm on Mon, Feb 25, 2013.

            Libra41- "Jack Kennedy ? C'mon man!"

            IABD- As Walter Cronkike used to say: "That's the way it was."
            http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Arts/Arts_/Pictures/2007/05/15/richardnixon460.jpg

             
          • libra42 posted at 9:04 pm on Mon, Feb 25, 2013.

            libra42 Posts: 461

            IABD = Jack Kennedy ? C'mon man!

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 7:18 pm on Mon, Feb 25, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            Rick Spencer posted at 6:55 pm on Mon, Feb 25, 2013

            RS- I must say that you are beginning to sound a bit envious of HTC , umm, umm, umm! RLS

            IABD- You should reduce the master control on your electric 'magic underwear'. It sounds painful.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 7:15 pm on Mon, Feb 25, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            laker1 posted at 4:44 pm on Mon, Feb 25, 2013

            There is little question that pay versus performance issues are common today; however, it is the owners of the company, that is the shareholders, to figure this out for themselves and to take appropriate action. After all, it's their money that they're spending.

            But pay/performance issues are not limited to the corporate arena, as public employment has carried such excesses to new heights within their space and they offer virtually no production of goods or services in return. Not only that, it is OUR money that they are wasting, not their own.

             
          • Rick Spencer posted at 6:55 pm on Mon, Feb 25, 2013.

            Rick Spencer Posts: 405

            IABD: If you really understood any of what's really going on, you wouldn't be on the offensive 24/7 and act like the whole world should worship you as Master as RS does.

            I must say that you are beginning to sound a bit envious of HTC , umm, umm, umm! RLS

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 5:03 pm on Mon, Feb 25, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            Libra41 posted at 4:42 pm on Mon, Feb 25, 2013.

            Libra 41- "As often happens, the nonsense spouted by IABD and Rebel Rouser carries the best rebuttal of their own argument.
            Much of what they say requires no comment."

            IABD- The First Kennedy-Nixon Presidential Debate: September 26, 1960 was a disaster for Nixon because he continually replied 'no comment.' Kennedy won the debate because he had heart and always commented when a question was asked.

             
          • laker1 posted at 4:44 pm on Mon, Feb 25, 2013.

            laker1 Posts: 110

            Bronco:

            Is this what you are getting at?

            “We find evidence that industry and size adjusted CEO pay is negatively related to future shareholder wealth changes for periods up to five years after sorting on pay. For example, firms that pay their CEOs in the top ten percent of pay earn negative abnormal returns over the next five years of approximately -13%. The effect is stronger for CEOs who receive higher incentive pay relative to their peers. Our results are consistent with high-pay induced CEO overconfidence and investor overreaction towards firms with high paid CEOs.”

            From: ‘Performance for pay? The relationship between CEO incentive compensation and future stock price performance.’ http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/CEOperformance122509.pdf

            Of course, some years there may a positive relation and some years there may not be any relation at all. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304019404577416210712022298.html .

            What this suggests is that there is a principal/agent problem with CEO pay. Of course, the principal/agent problem is only one of the causes of the failure of free markets. However, a recent survey of CEO’s revealed that the only cause of market failures was government intervention. The survey revealed further that, since the government was the cause of market failures, it was only right that the government bail out companies which were adversely affected by the failures. (Only kidding).

             
          • libra42 posted at 4:42 pm on Mon, Feb 25, 2013.

            libra42 Posts: 461

            As often happens, the nonsense spouted by IABD and Rebel Rouser carries the best rebuttal of their own argument.
            Much of what they say requires no comment. It speaks for itself, sadly. But make no mistake - they are just part of a larger misinformed group and that group is currently very popular and resistant to change.

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 4:03 pm on Mon, Feb 25, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            HighTechCowboy posted at 2:46 pm on Mon, Feb 25, 2013. to Bronco

            "But like Rebel Rouser, you and other progressives are modern day Don Quixotes, tipping at windmills and always identifying the wrong target as your 'enemy.'
            If you really understood any of what's really going on, you wouldn't still be voting Democrat."

            IABD- Don Quixotes was from the lowest class in Spain known as 'hidalgo'. A modern day noble 'hidalgo' fighting for economic opportunities for the poor and the less privileged middle class will always be known as a 'Democrat' in the United States. Republicans historically have always been too busy trying to identify a new enemy target and take on a negative deficit by funding a war-based economy. War and Risk are no longer profitable board games anymore. Children are becoming more inspired with creative games like 'pay it forward'.

            If you really understood any of what's really going on, you wouldn't be on the offensive 24/7 and act like the whole world should worship you as Master as RS does.

             
          • Pete posted at 3:07 pm on Mon, Feb 25, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Bronco posted at 1:48 pm on Mon, Feb 25, 2013

            And your point is? I can guarrantee those executives distribute their wealth far more efficiently than the government could ever do...and to folks who actually work for a living. You, on the other hand, would rather have the STATE confiscate wealth, pass it through 15 levels of government bureaucracy and dribble just enough out into the public trough to keep folks nicely dependent. You are a full blown socialist hypocrite who wouldn't dare set foot in the very societies who employ the ideology you espouse. A cheap little left-wing revolutionary want-to-be running around in a Che Guevara hat quoting ThinkProgress and drooling over Bill Mahr but without the guts to live in the human wasteland such nonsense produces. Unfortunately we can't innoculate little pi$$ants like you against stupidity, but I'd certainly be among the first to step up and contribute to your education by buying you a one way ticket to the STATist utopia of your choosing...he// I'd even throw in an extra ticket for Rebel Rouser and enough cargo space for your collection of Streisand LPs...it can't cost that much to fly you to bozos Detroit.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 2:52 pm on Mon, Feb 25, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            Rebel Rouser: Why don't you solve your problem the way all good gGod fearing, conservative, right wing, cChristian, Republican, flag waving (and not greedy) patriots do? You know, lie, cheat, scam, scandal, steal, bend rules, nepotism, favoritism, insider trading and privileged information exchanging, charity accepting, sell dangerous products, manipulate politics, sue everyone, take advantage of the elderly, etc., etc., and amass enough wealth to take care of your rotten eggs in the future? You say there should not be ANY upper limit for the wealthy elitists to own and control wealth, so what is your excuse? Or are you just trying make us, the more compassionate, liberal minded, folks here on this blog, feel bad for you, and yours?

            HTC: Only an idiot liberal could fail to see the hypocrisy in beginning a response with a long-winded, hate-filled personal attack and then proceed to claim to be caring and compassionate.

            So much for your famous 'tolerance' as well.

            I really don't give a damn what you think of me or my family. Why would I concern myself with the opinions of an ignorant moron?

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 2:46 pm on Mon, Feb 25, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            Bronco: WASHINGTON (CNNMoney) -- In 2010, chief executives at some of the nation's largest companies earned an average of $11.4 million in total pay -- 343 times more than a typical American worker, according to the AFL-CIO.

            HTC: So? If that's what the board and shareholders want to pay them, then so be it; after all, it's their money, NOT YOURS, that they're spending. This post is irrelevant to the point you're trying to make other than the fact that it highlights your own greed and envy that seeks to judge how others choose to spend their money.

            If you want to get upset over something, get outraged over how YOUR tax dollars are being spent by an abusive, incompetent and corrupt government that wants to consume every dollar in sight. Get angry over the trillions being spent on the nanny state and the mortgaging of your childrens' futures in a vain effort to sustain it for now.

            But like Rebel Rouser, you and other progressives are modern day Don Quixotes, tipping at windmills and always identifying the wrong target as your 'enemy.'

            If you really understood any of what's really going on, you wouldn't still be voting Democrat.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 2:39 pm on Mon, Feb 25, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            Rebel Rouser: I may have told you this before, however, once again, corporations do NOT pay taxes the way you state they do. We may have the highest corporate tax rate on the planet but there are so many ways for these newly found "citizens" to get around the tax rules (loop holes) that not a single nickle gets paid to OUR government. I don't know what they end up paying other governments abroad, but they don't pay any substantive amount here.

            HTC: Well, then, I guess all of my fellow small business owners and I have some really crappy accountants because we pay a boatload in taxes but you don't know that we do because most of us aren't incorporated; hence, our contributions get counted under "individual income taxes" and make it appear that regular workers pay more than they do versus business owners and corporations.

            Companies that are incorporated pay roughly 25% of all income taxes collected plus massive payroll taxes that represent the employer's share for SS and Medicare. Considering how grossly outnumbered they are by their own employees, this makes their share substantially greater than that born by the employees. The burden of ObamaCare will make things substantially tougher for businesses and is already costing us jobs left and right.

            Polls consistently show that employers' three top business-hindering and job-busting issues are: (1) regulatory burdern, (2) tax burden and (3) high energy and natural resource costs. CEOs don't even count labor costs in their top 5 issues!

            You simply don't know what you're talking about.

            Rebel Rouser: Also, do you not believe that board games should have rules to play by, or do you just make up your own rules as you play those games with your grandchildren?

            HTC: Of course we need rules, and one of the cardinal rules amongst all rules should be that you have no right to anything you didn't earn yourself or to a bailout because you did something stupid; that is, if you're losing and another Monopoly player is ahead, you don't get to stay in the game by stealing some of his properties and Monopoly money.

            In the real world, there are winners and losers and it sucks to be a loser.

            Rebel Rouser: Thanks for supporting my argument that America hater businessmen have sold us down the pike, and I for one do not believe they are eager to bring those dollars back here any time soon.

            HTC: Like hell I supported your argument but you're too blinded by your progressive biases to see it any other way. Many American businesses want to bring those profits home but it is Obama and his party who are preventing that. They're the ones who've sold you down the river but like a good little Obamaton, you simply refuse to see it.

            Rebel Rouser: I agree that this situation should never have been allowed to happen. Again, this is exactly why there has to be rules, and everyone should be equally responsible to follow said rules. The consequence of illegal immigration is staggering and we will never truly know the extent of what it has cost this country. I am against any form of appeasement to this particular group of law breakers especially amnesty.

            HTC: So why do you continue to vote for Democrats? They've made it very clear over decades that they have no desire for true immigration reform which makes it easier for the worlds' best and brightest to emigrate here while simultaneously making it much tougher for the impoverished and illiterate (but future Democratic voters) to sneak into our country. They are the party of amnesties and they're working on another such amnesty right now.

            The Democratic Party demonstrated twice during Obama's first term that they don't give a rat's azz what you or any of the rest of us think or want when they passed 'stimulus' and ObamaCare over the loud protests of the vast majority of Americans.

            Can you not see that they lacking sincerity and a real love of country? Are you really that slow a learner?

            Rebel Rouser: Me? With my one little (almost meaningless) vote? Surely you jest? I would bet that my many conversations with our representatives in Washington have done far more to extend my POV than any vote I have ever made. So, as I look into the mirror, I see a person who tries to make a difference, tries to make our society a better place, in a fair and honest way, sans the greed.

            HTC: If you really think your vote has no effect, then why do you continue to vote?

            Rebel Rouser: As far as the rest of your post, it seems you are okay with the new "global" mindset of selling America (along with our culture), to those who can afford it, one little piece at a time.

            HTC: If you truly believe that selling real property and other business assets to foreigners constitutes selling off of our culture, then you must also believe that selling your home to a foreigner means selling off your family's values and beliefs.

            That's a ludicrous concept at best.

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 2:27 pm on Mon, Feb 25, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            Rick Spencer posted at 6:39 pm on Sun, Feb 24, 2013.

            HTC does not dream, he produces and that is the essence of our country. He does not dream of a utopian existence, but does all that he can such that each citizen can be all that he can be.

            IABD- Although HTC has spoken of his unconscious intuition capabilities, perhaps you present a valid question...Do greedy masters ever sleep knowing they cannot enter the kingdom of heaven?

            Therapy music from a psychedelic sixties San Francisco band:
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCdzy_USHww

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 2:17 pm on Mon, Feb 25, 2013.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1563

            "I only regret that I won't be here forever to help my descendents through the misery that we created for them. It was once considered our duty to hand a better country to our children than the one we got from our parents. Oh, how horribly we've failed at that noble task."

            Why don't you solve your problem the way all good gGod fearing, conservative, right wing, cChristian, Republican, flag waving (and not greedy) patriots do? You know, lie, cheat, scam, scandal, steal, bend rules, nepotism, favoritism, insider trading and privileged information exchanging, charity accepting, sell dangerous products, manipulate politics, sue everyone, take advantage of the elderly, etc., etc., and amass enough wealth to take care of your rotten eggs in the future? You say there should not be ANY upper limit for the wealthy elitists to own and control wealth, so what is your excuse? Or are you just trying make us, the more compassionate, liberal minded, folks here on this blog, feel bad for you, and yours?

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 2:02 pm on Mon, Feb 25, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            reggie posted at 12:28 pm on Mon, Feb 25, 2013

            Before you run off at the mouth and accuse someone else of lying, it's always good to get your own facts straight.

            First of all, FoxNews did NOT win a court decision that they could "DIRECTLY LIE during 'news' broadcasts." What they won, and the only proper decision that legally could be reached, was the determination that their firing of the couple who was preparing to air a very negative one-sided 'newscast' against Monsanto and bGH did not violate any provisions of employment law, including the Whistleblower Act.

            Their lawyers successfully argued that the content of their intended newscast was not relevant as to whether the Whistleblower Act had been violated, as the FCC had no regulations or laws in place regarding truth or bias in broadcasts; therefore, the couple didn't qualify as "whistleblowers" and the Act did NOT apply to their termination.

            Fox later broadcast a story showing BOTH sides of the issue, something the couple had not done in any of the edited versions of their proposed newscast.

            As for bGH itself, it has been proven conclusively in one study after another that it is neither biologically nor chemically active in humans. Continued study continues to reach the same conclusions.

             
          • Bronco posted at 1:48 pm on Mon, Feb 25, 2013.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            Bronco: And you're disagreeing with me concerning the pitfalls of capitalism which I stated? You believe greed and self-interest is either non-existent or have no ill effects on people? That's what you're disputing?

            HTC: Yes, I am most emphatically disagreeing with you because you're simply wrong. Certainly greed and self-interest are all around us; self-interest especially is literally hard-wired into us. But most capitalists practice a kind of enlightened self-interest, as do most wise consumers. They want to build an enduring enterprise with an enduring revenus stream and they know that you can't do that if you rip off the consumer along the way.
            ---------------------------------
            WASHINGTON (CNNMoney) -- In 2010, chief executives at some of the nation's largest companies earned an average of $11.4 million in total pay -- 343 times more than a typical American worker, according to the AFL-CIO.

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 1:38 pm on Mon, Feb 25, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            Pete posted at 1:15 pm on Mon, Feb 25, 2013.

            Pete- "Sometimes a key opens more than one door, grasshopper."

            IABD- Love is the key to open the doors locked by egoism and greed.
            If you open your heart, the world is an open door.

             
          • Pete posted at 1:15 pm on Mon, Feb 25, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152


            It's a bubble day posted at 12:13 pm on Mon, Feb 25, 2013

            Sometimes a key opens more than one door, grasshopper.

             
          • reggie posted at 12:28 pm on Mon, Feb 25, 2013.

            reggie Posts: 88

            How can there be 79 comments and no mention of proven fox news lies?

            In the 1990s Fox News won a court decision that allows them to DIRECTLY LIE during "news" brodcasts. The Florida Supreme Court ruled in the network's favor in a suit brought by two fox "reporters" who were fired for refusing to read lies during their "news" program. This involved monsanto's bovine groth hormone being fed to cows to increase milk production and the contamination of milk by this artifical hormone and resulting harm to humans that consume it.

            Google: foxbghsuit and see a real reason to not believe this lieing "news" brodcaster.

            Of course, by far most of what they brodcast is true.....llike all successfull propaganda.

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 12:13 pm on Mon, Feb 25, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            Pete posted at 11:33 am on Mon, Feb 25, 2013.
            Pete- "One of the great tragedies of our post-modern culture is that when we made it antediluvian to identify evil we also lost the ability to recognize authentic love."

            "In the Christian Bible and Hebrew Torah, the 'antediluvian' period begins with the Creation according to Genesis and ends with the destruction of all life on the earth except those saved with Noah in the Ark."
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antediluvian

            IABD- Sorry to hear that you and HTC both missed the boat. :)

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 11:57 am on Mon, Feb 25, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            Bronco: Selective breeding has evolved/devolved Rob's puddles from Asian wolves. That in a mere 15,000 years. Un-selective breeding certainly takes longer.

            HTC: Yet, after 15,000 years of forced 'evolution', Rob still has a dog and not some new life form. This is just another example of microevolution which all scientists, myself included, must acknowledge.

            Apparently you don't understand the difference between the two kinds of evolution, let alone have any grasp of what would be required to produce a single living cell from some kind of primordial soup. Even the best lab efforts created in the most conducive (i.e., much different from the hostile world that existed here billions of years ago) environments, have only produced strands of RNA which, in the real world, wouldn't have lasted long enough to do much of anything, let alone go on to produce RNA and DNA strands necessary for life and all the different proteins needed to form the many different kinds of organelles and a cell membrane to enclose and protect all that while still permitting necessary nutrients to move through that cell wall and metabolic wastes to be ejected through it.

            Everything always looks simpler and possible to those ignorant of the real complexities involved.

            Bronco: But have it your way: First, there was nothing. Then, everything. Thank Greed we're still here, destroying the planet for our self-interest.

            HTC: You are certainly possessed by the progressive's mindset rather than a discerning intellect. How sad for you.

             
          • Pete posted at 11:33 am on Mon, Feb 25, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            HighTechCowboy posted at 10:36 am on Mon, Feb 25, 2013

            "It also shows that, while we will readily claim to love our children, we apparently don't know what real love is."

            One of the great tragedies of our post-modern culture is that when we made it antediluvian to identify evil we also lost the ability to recognize authentic love.

             
          • Rick Spencer posted at 11:24 am on Mon, Feb 25, 2013.

            Rick Spencer Posts: 405

            Bronco: Assuming you watched the Friedman discussion re greed, with what part do you disagree? I would be interested in knowing as that would possibly help us digest your opinions in a more reasonable manner. So, speak please. RLS

             
          • Bronco posted at 11:11 am on Mon, Feb 25, 2013.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            HTC: Macroevolution, per the scientific method, has not been able to advance beyond the level of hypothesis. That's simple fact.
            ----------------
            Selective breeding has evolved/devolved Rob's puddles from Asian wolves. That in a mere 15,000 years. Un-selective breeding certainly takes longer.

            But have it your way: First, there was nothing. Then, everything. Thank Greed we're still here, destroying the planet for our self-interest.

             
          • Bronco posted at 10:57 am on Mon, Feb 25, 2013.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            HTC and RLS:

            In Greed We Trust

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 10:36 am on Mon, Feb 25, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            RLS: And, it saddens me that so many are incapable of understanding that simple fact, our progeny are our gift and that so many in the present are willing to transfer their wealth to us as we transfer our debt to them in order that we have a life we did not earn, is beyond comprehension and is a totally selfish on its face and destructive to their future.. There is no explanation other than pure, outright selfishness.

            HTC: Bingo! There is no other explanation. I saw a Gallup/WSJ poll not long ago that sought to find out exactly how people felt about this mortgaging of our children's futures or if the general public even understood the depth of the damage we were doing to our progeny's future.

            The poll found that most understood the problem, once it was explained to them before the poll was taken, but 60% of Democrats and 40% of Republicans were content to saddle our children with this debt anyway.

            That is pretty damning evidence to support the case that it is selfishness, pure and simple. It also shows that, while we will readily claim to love our children, we apparently don't know what real love is. This also helps to explain why we've talked about our failed education system for decades but have effectively done nothing except tax others in order to throw more good money after bad.

            If there are any honest historians in the future, they won't have much good to say about our generation and those we've spawned.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 10:26 am on Mon, Feb 25, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            RLS and kohana,

            Thanks for the kind words and congratulations on being members of the Three-Fourths of a Century Club. I wish you both many more birthdays and hope to eventually join that club myself.

            When I was a much younger man, I dreaded the thought of growing old; but, when you've got children and grandchildren to enjoy and celebrate and a wonderful spouse to grow old with you, it's actually rather nice.

            As a technologist, my adult years often had me thinking that, if I'd been born ten or twenty years later, think of the incredible things I'd see. Now that I know those years ahead are going to be filled with difficulty due to the greed of the electorate and our government, I both fear for my children and grandchildren as I simultaneously count my blessings that I got to experience a far different time in our country, when self-reliance, honor and principle mattered, and when more freedom and economic opportunity existed.

            I only regret that I won't be here forever to help my descendents through the misery that we created for them. It was once considered our duty to hand a better country to our children than the one we got from our parents. Oh, how horribly we've failed at that noble task.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 10:17 am on Mon, Feb 25, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            Pete posted at 6:57 am on Mon, Feb 25, 2013

            Very well stated.

            Yes, we live in an age where others must pay for our own consequences, whether it's providing them with welfare and free healthcare for the rest of their lives because they dropped out of high school and had 3 kids before their 21st birthday, or they're Wall Street bankers who can now count on future bailouts, thanks to Dodd-Frank Financial 'Reform' which has codified those bailouts into law.

            Indeed, there is little mystery behind our profound lack of wisdom as we enter the 21st century.

             
          • Rick Spencer posted at 10:11 am on Mon, Feb 25, 2013.

            Rick Spencer Posts: 405

            Bronco: Can you name a single society that does not run on greed? Go here for the best discussion ever about the subject and then let us know your thoughts? It is by Milton Friedman, and all can understand it. RLS

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWsx1X8PV_A

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 9:58 am on Mon, Feb 25, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            Bronco: Where do you come up with this stuff? All my kids went to public school through high school and none of them learned most of the stuff you posted.

            HTC: You probably didn't notice it because you believe all those myths I listed. Keep in mind, though, that I was talking about our colleges and universities as well as public schools and that some public school systems have gone much further down the progressive road to insanity than others, especially in CA, where my kids went to school.

            If you doubt me, check out the texts books used in CA or visit almost any college campus and audit a few courses.

            Bronco: And you say organisms do not evolve? That's been proven, dude. He//, even flu viruses evolve.

            HTC: There is microevolution and macroevolution. Only microevolution has been proven. Macroevolution, per the scientific method, has not been able to advance beyond the level of hypothesis. That's simple fact.

            Microbiologists who are much smarter than you or I have begun to question evolutionists' story about the origin of life, even just simple single cell life, due to the incredible complexity of the simplest cell, something Darwin could never have imagined when he penned his simple and now archaic theory. Statistical scientists have calculated the odds of something that complex creating itself and the odds against it are so astronomical as to be virtually impossible.

            This is HARD science, not religious fantasy, and those who dismiss these realities out of hand are simply not being intellectually honest.

            Bronco: And you're disagreeing with me concerning the pitfalls of capitalism which I stated? You believe greed and self-interest is either non-existent or have no ill effects on people? That's what you're disputing? Prove it.

            HTC: Yes, I am most emphatically disagreeing with you because you're simply wrong. Certainly greed and self-interest are all around us; self-interest especially is literally hard-wired into us. But most capitalists practice a kind of enlightened self-interest, as do most wise consumers. They want to build an enduring enterprise with an enduring revenus stream and they know that you can't do that if you rip off the consumer along the way.

            70% of the jobs in this country are created by small business owners like me. WE are today's capitalists, not the Rockefellers, Carnegies, etc. We struggle to keep our employees (who are like family to us) through one recession after another. We struggle to keep our prices down in the face of rising material costs, insurance costs, energy costs, etc. Many of us fail, not because we were greedy, but because we eventually allowed our margins to become too small to sustain us.

            Your statements are an insult to the rest of us who are the heart and soul of capitalism in America today.

            But since you want to talk about greed, let's talk about the greed of the electorate and the government which see nothing morally wrong in taking the hard-earned fruits of others' labors to give it to those who did nothing to earn it.

            Their schemes for the redistribution of wealth have brought this country to the brink of bankruptcy and stifled economic growth and job creation. They have stolen our childrens' future earnings and wealth to provide for their own selfish needs, transferring to their children an impossible burden to ever satisfy.

            But you don't seem to be bothered by that in the least. Perhaps you are as selfish as they are.


             
          • mooseberryinn posted at 9:43 am on Mon, Feb 25, 2013.

            mooseberryinn Posts: 2685

            Rick/HTC - Well said. Part of the problem in the on-going "diplomacy" issue with Islamic froot loops is trying to accommodate their views. When many of their persuasion are driven to kill all non-Muslims, (as allegedly ordered by their Koran?) there isn't a lot of room for compromise. To make matters worse, integrity is not one of the hallmarks of Arab (or Obama's) negotiating perimeters. The Iranian nut cases for example - they will say anything, promise anything, lie about everything to gain their goals. Oh wait, that sounds a lot like candidate, (now King) Obama. Anyway - what is needed is an American President able and willing to stand firm for moral and humane, honorable values. But also, the congressional members must share those values. (hint: Pelosi sure doesn't). Bottom line - America has been corrupted and divided badly over the past five years or so. The "Party" apparatchik (demo-dummies) has sworn their allegiance to King Obama, not America. Too bad, so sad, told ya so.

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 9:43 am on Mon, Feb 25, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            HighTechCowboy posted at 8:32 am on Mon, Feb 25, 2013.

            Ralph Waldo Emerson being a transcendental capitalist was also quoted with:"Build a better mousetrap, and the world will beat a path to your door."
            If you were to be a true transcendental capitalist in the assault weapons industry, you could develop a fast-gun franchise to compete with McDonald's. Call it McThompson's.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 9:26 am on Mon, Feb 25, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            Pete: Bottom line: I think conservatives/libertarians use the truth to measure the news source, while progressives use the news source to measure the truth. [thumbup][thumbup]

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 9:22 am on Mon, Feb 25, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            IABD: Try to stay on topic RS.....

            HTC: You're telling someone else to "stay on topic?"

            Now, that's hilarious! [lol]

             
          • Rick Spencer posted at 8:42 am on Mon, Feb 25, 2013.

            Rick Spencer Posts: 405

            who new posted at 11:52 pm on Sun, Feb 24, 2013.

            I like your answer. You have high lighted the problem from that point of view: Who does the choosing?

            But, I don't think we are losing our culture so much from the outside, but rather from the inside. If there has ever been a more debilitating and corrosive aspect of our present culture than political correctness, I would like to know what it is? It pervades without abandon. And, I do think that is part of Frank's message as well. Are we being forced into being "...too darn nice..." to all who want to harm us? Are there many items in the national discussion relating to the goals of the Muslim fanatics to be yet discussed? I think not, they want to destroy us if we do not accept their culture and that seems to the message Frank's article is sending. With such a public message from them, it certainly makes the choosing much easier, at least for me. RLS

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:42 am on Mon, Feb 25, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            It's a beautiful day posted at 5:07 pm on Sun, Feb 24, 2013

            Ground water contamination by phenol, hippuric acid, methane and other substances is coming from coal deposits, not the deep horizontal drilling and fracking. This has been proven time and time again.

            But it's impossible to kill the "evil corporation" mantra when so many prefer to believe that which conforms to their baseless prejudices rather than hard scientific evidence.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:32 am on Mon, Feb 25, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            Rob123 posted at 11:22 am on Sun, Feb 24, 2013

            "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." - from the essay "Self Reliance", by Ralph Waldo Emerson

             
          • bill39 posted at 7:55 am on Mon, Feb 25, 2013.

            bill39 Posts: 1050

            RLS: There is no explanation other than pure, outright selfishness.

            I agree. Democrats loyalty to their party has evidently made them the way they are. As their party has changed over the decades so to have democrat voters. Seems their loyalty to the "party" is more important than anything else, including country.

             
          • Pete posted at 6:57 am on Mon, Feb 25, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            who new posted at 11:52 pm on Sun, Feb 24, 2013

            My last post supposes we are able to exercise true freedom; freedom to succeed, freedom to fail, and the freedom to live with the consequences of both. Obviously this is not the case, and so it is little wonder that we lack wisdom as well...since wisdom comes from experiencing the consequences of our free choices. How else to explain a society that decides to "protect" its citizens from 20oz Cokes but not from its own drone strikes.

             
          • Pete posted at 6:27 am on Mon, Feb 25, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            who new posted at 11:52 pm on Sun, Feb 24, 2013

            I think there is a difference between, "accept, share, and oppose" and freedom supposes "we the people" have the wisdom to know the difference and act accordingly.

             
          • Pete posted at 6:20 am on Mon, Feb 25, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            It's a beautiful day posted at 9:35 pm on Sun, Feb 24, 2013

            [beam] Keep chasing those bubbles....just don't knock heads with Bronco.

             
          • who new posted at 12:02 am on Mon, Feb 25, 2013.

            who new Posts: 367

            who new: “…which foreigners qualify?

            Side note to wdnm, foreigners are people. Is the proper pronoun who?

             
          • who new posted at 11:52 pm on Sun, Feb 24, 2013.

            who new Posts: 367

            Frank: “Which is why, I suppose, there is absolutely no way for our country to stop our enemies from taking over our media centers, our digital networks, our manufacturing facilities, probably even our military and our government eventually. We are just too darn polite to ever say anything about how much our institutions and traditions mean to us. We used to fight to the death to preserve our culture, but now we are way TOO cultured to presume that the American way of life is in any way better than any other.”

            I guess I’m reading the column differently from other folks, considering their responses to this column. To me, the column begs the question - Do we allow foreigners to ever invest in businesses in our country, or are they allowed to invest in our businesses only if they have proven they accept or share in our values? If Frank is advocating is the second option, who would be in charge of determining which foreigners qualify?

            Personally, I don’t think investments from Islamic interests are nearly the threat to our nation as the Chinese. These latest reports of them hacking into our computer systems are much more troubling than whatever influence Islamists could affect through our media. Particularly when you consider the influence of media is becoming more and more diluted merely because there are so many types and entities of media. It would seem the Chinese are light years ahead of Islamists in bringing our culture down.

             
          • Bronco posted at 11:42 pm on Sun, Feb 24, 2013.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            HighTechCowboy posted at 4:52 pm on Sun,
            ------------
            Where do you come up with this stuff? All my kids went to public school through high school and none of them learned most of the stuff you posted.
            And you say organisms do not evolve? That's been proven, dude. He//, even flu viruses evolve.

            And you're disagreeing with me concerning the pitfalls of capitalism which I stated? You believe greed and self-interest is either non-existent or have no ill effects on people? That's what you're disputing? Prove it.

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 9:35 pm on Sun, Feb 24, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            Pete posted at 8:28 pm on Sun, Feb 24, 2013.

            Hate to burst your bubble Pete, but someone has to break it to you. There is no such thing as a conservative/libertarian. A conservative is a conservationist concerned with the stewardship of the environment, public lands, clean air, water, clean energy.
            Libertarians are more similar to the atheist Chinese Communist Party Masters, who progressively repeat the denial of the effects of pollution as they shamelessly pass their pollution problems on to the next generation of slaves and the world. Remember to carry a bamboo stick to breathe through when you have to hide in the rice paddies.

             
          • kohana posted at 9:33 pm on Sun, Feb 24, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109

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            https://online.hillsdale.edu/americanheritage/ricochet

             
          • kohana posted at 9:32 pm on Sun, Feb 24, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            Rick Spencer, just realized that Friday is March 1st, my dad's birthday. I will have a candle lit for him.

             
          • Pete posted at 8:46 pm on Sun, Feb 24, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Bronco posted at 3:22 pm on Sun, Feb 24, 2013

            [beam] You really need to take an eco-tour of some countries that hold your anti-capitalist ideals. Start with Algeria and work your way through the alphabet. You'll love it...just remember your bottled water, pepto-bismol and body armor. (Oh and watch out for the drone strikes - Obama might consider you a clear and present danger.)

             
          • Pete posted at 8:28 pm on Sun, Feb 24, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Frank- I agree with your cautionary tale, but I don't think it is big news to conservative/libertarian types who tend to lend their allegiance to objective, enduring truths while nursing a healthy skepticism toward political trends and personalities. Progressives however, have a deep skepticism of objective, enduring truth and quite readily lend their allegiance to political trends and personalities.

            Bottom line: I think conservatives/libertarians use the truth to measure the news source, while progressives use the news source to measure the truth.

             
          • kohana posted at 8:15 pm on Sun, Feb 24, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            Well, thank you Rick Spencer, and happy birthday to you as well. Don't you just love saying you are a three quarters of a century old? I do! I have a cousin turning 98 in several weeks, and have predicted she will live at least 20 more years. Thanksgiving is also my favorite holiday.

            I agree with your assessment of HTC, an incredibly caring person along with his beautiful wife and family.

            You have a good one on Friday.

            Kay Ohana

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 7:29 pm on Sun, Feb 24, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            One good reason not to trust Fox News

            http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012/02/20/frackings-effects-on-groundwater-may-be-overblown-study-shows/

             
          • Rick Spencer posted at 7:22 pm on Sun, Feb 24, 2013.

            Rick Spencer Posts: 405


            This article will help one to understand the economic insanity that HTC speaks about and the destructive aspect of Keynesian economics that is the bulwark of Progressive/Socialist/Democrats platform for America. I have always felt that Keynesian economics is Marxism wrapped in 21th century economic language. It is their attempt to convince me that I am being robbed for my own benefit, and they believe in that as truth! They all deserve the Hell that I hope exists! Even the Easter Bunny cannot save them. RLS
            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            The Keynesian Depression

            A Premonition From a Halcyon Era

            By Scott Minerd, Chief Investment Officer, Guggenheim Funds

            In 1968, America was literally over the moon. Apollo 7 had just made the first manned lunar orbit and the nation would soon witness Neil Armstrong’s moonwalk. The United States was winning the war in Southeast Asia and the Great Society was on the verge of eliminating poverty. I remember my father taking me to the Buick dealership that summer in Connellsville, Pennsylvania, where he bought a 1969 Electra. As we drove home I asked him why we had bought the 1969 model when we had the 1968 one, which seemed equally good.

            “That’s just what you do now,” my father said, “Every year you go and get a new car.” “Wouldn’t it be better,” I asked as a precocious nine year-old, “if we saved our money in case a depression happened?” I will never forget my father’s reply: “Son, the next depression will be completely different from the one that I knew as a boy. In that depression, virtually nobody had any money so if you had even a little, you could buy nearly anything. In the next depression, everyone will have plenty of money but it won’t buy much of anything.” Little did I realize, then, how prescient my father would prove to be.

            Five years have passed since the beginning of the Great Recession. Growth is slow, joblessness is elevated, and the knock-on effects continue to drag down the global economy. The panic in financial markets in 2008 that caused a systemic crisis and a sharp fall in asset values still weighs on markets around the world. The primary difference between today and the 1930s, when the U.S. experienced its last systemic crisis, has been the response by policymakers. Having the benefit of hindsight, policymakers acted swiftly to avoid the mistakes of the Great Depression by applying Keynesian solutions. Today, I believe we are in the midst of the Keynesian Depression that my father predicted. Like the last depression, we are likely to live with the unintended consequences of the policy response for years to come.

            This Depression is Brought to You By...

            John Maynard Keynes (1883—1946) was a British economist and the chief architect of contemporary macroeconomic theory. In the 1930s, he overturned classical economics with his monumental General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money, a book that, among other things, sought to explain the Great Depression and made prescriptions on how to escape it and avoid future economic catastrophes. Lord Keynes, a Cambridge- educated statistician by training, held various cabinet positions in the British government, was the U.K.’s representative at the 1944 Bretton Woods conference and, along with Milton Friedman, is recognized as the most influential economic thinker of the 20th century.

            Keynes believed that classical economic theory, which focused on the long-run was a misleading guide for policymakers. He famously quipped that, “in the long run we’re all dead.” His view was that aggregate demand, not the classical theory of supply and demand, determines economic output. He also believed that governments could positively intervene in markets and use deficit spending to smooth out business cycles, thereby lessening the pain of economic contractions. Keynes called this “priming the pump.”

            On Your Mark, Get Set, Spend

            Since the Second World War, policymakers concerned with both fiscal and monetary policy have opportunistically followed certain Keynesian principles, particularly using government spending as a stabilizer during periods of economic contraction. In 1968, steady economic growth and low inflation had led optimists to declare that the business cycle was dead. When President Nixon ended gold convertibility of the dollar in 1971 he justified it by declaring that he was a Keynesian. Even Milton Friedman, founder of the monetary school of economics, told Time magazine that from a methodological standpoint, “We’re all Keynesians now.”

            In dampening each successive downturn, authorities accumulated increasingly larger deficits and brought about a debt supercycle that lasted in excess of half a century. The complementary aspect of Keynes’ guidance on deficit spending – raising taxes during upswings – was rarely followed because of its political unpopularity. As a result of the constant fiscal support without the tax increases, businesses and households became comfortable operating with continuously higher leverage ratios. The conventional wisdom was that this government backstop could never be exhausted.

            The calamity in the financial system in 2007 and 2008 signaled the beginning of the unraveling of the global debt supercycle. The Keynesian model dictated that the best way to fix the problem was to run large deficits and increase the money supply. Keynes had based his prescriptions for this type of action on the early mismanagement of the Great Depression which he felt had prolonged the losses and hardship during that time. As is the case with most groundbreaking philosophies, Keynes’ disciples carried his views much further than could have been imagined during the period in which the master lived.

            The Depression My Father Knew

            Keynes viewed governments’ attempts at belt-tightening during the Great Depression as ill-timed. Although President Roosevelt invested in massive public works projects under the New Deal starting in 1933, almost four years into the crisis, the U.S. government maintained a policy of attempting to balance the budget as the depression raged on. Keynes’s response was: “The boom, not the slump, is the right time for austerity at the Treasury.” The other problem, according to Keynes, was that the Federal Reserve’s attempts to lower real interest rates and inject cash into the system were too modest and too late to avoid what he referred to as a liquidity trap, leading people to hoard cash instead of consuming.

            To illustrate the dynamics of the liquidity trap Keynes cleverly invoked the analogy of “pushing on a string.” He said that at some point, attempting to stimulate demand by easing credit conditions is like trying to push a string that is tied to an object you want to move. Whereas you can easily pull something toward you by the string to which an object is tied (raising interest rates to slow growth), attempting to carry out the opposite by reversed means (lowering interest rates to try to induce lending to otherwise unwilling borrowers) is not always successful. This is especially true when the rate of inflation becomes so low that it becomes impossible to set interest rates below it.

            This Time It’s Different

            What sets the current downturn apart from any other since the Great Depression is that, for the first time since the 1930s, we have had severe asset deflation (declining real prices) in the face of relative price stability. Periods of asset deflation occurred between the 1960s and 1990s, but nominal prices were supported by rising inflation levels. Against the backdrop of a rising price level, nominal asset prices remained stable or continued to increase as real asset prices declined. This protected asset-based lenders from severe losses resulting from declining nominal prices.

            During the 2008 crisis, inflation levels were close to zero and unable to offset falling real asset values to stabilize nominal prices. This caused a debt deflation spiral to take hold as nominal prices fell. In contrast to the Great Depression, policymakers took extreme measures in 2008 to prevent a total collapse of the financial system and head off a deflationary spiral like that experienced in the 1930s. These policies included sharply increasing the money supply and engaging in an unprecedented amount of deficit spending.

            In many ways the swift policy action proved highly effective. Instead of the 25 percent unemployment seen in the 1930s, joblessness reached only 10 percent. While unemployment now stands at roughly eight percent, if one uses the labor force participation rate from 2008, the level is still higher than 11 percent. Although there was a 3.5 percent decline in the price level between July and December of 2008, policymakers immediately tackled and reversed the deflationary spiral. This compares with the Great Depression, when between 1929 and 1933 the general price level declined by 25 percent.

            The Aftermath

            Though some may be cheered by the relative policy successes this time around, at the current trajectory it will still take almost as long for total employment to fully recover as it did in the 1930s. While job loss was not as severe this time, the recovery in job creation has been much slower. Although nominal and real gross domestic production have returned to new highs on a per capita basis, we are still below 2007 levels. In the same way the Great Depression and the depressions before it lasted eight to 10 years, we will likely continue to see constrained economic growth until 2015-2016 (roughly nine years after U.S. home prices began to slide). Only then will the excess inventory in the real estate market be absorbed, allowing the plumbing of the financial system to function, and supporting an increase in the economic growth rate.

            At what cost did we attain this “success”? Like any strong medicine, the policies pursued since 2008 have had, and are continuing to have, unintended side effects. The most glaring feature of today’s global landscape is that governments around the world have exhausted their capacity to borrow money and have turned to their central banks to provide unlimited credit. In the United States, it has taken an average annual deficit of $1.2 trillion and multiple rounds of quantitative easing just to keep the economy growing at a subpar rate since 2009.

            In their 2009 book, This Time It’s Different: Eight Centuries of Financial Folly, the economists Carmen Reinhart and Kenneth Rogoff catalogue more than 250 financial crises and conclude that the U.S. cannot reasonably expect to circumvent the outcome that has befallen all overleveraged nations. In the authors’ words:

            ...Highly leveraged economies, particularly those in which continual rollover of short-term debt is sustained only by confidence in relatively illiquid underlying assets, seldom survive forever, particularly if leverage continues to grow unchecked.

            Sovereign powers saddled with debt loads as large as those of the U.S., Europe, and Japan today are jeopardizing their long-term economic well being.

            In an October 2012 whitepaper, Reinhart and Rogoff re-emphasized their findings that the U.S. cannot expect to quickly emerge from what occurred in 2008. They point out that 2008 was the first systemic crisis in the U.S. since the 1930s so the consequences have been much more significant than fall-outs from normal recessions.

            What Comes Next?

            The most important question for investors concerns how public sector debt levels, which have risen exponentially over the past half-decade, will ultimately be discharged. As Reinhart and Rogoff discuss, there are three options to reducing debt levels. The first is restructuring, also known as default. For obvious reasons this is painful and typically avoided except under the most dire circumstances. Governments can also pursue structural reform, which in today’s case would mean greater austerity. Implementation of this would stand in stark opposition to Keynes’s recommendation that the fiscal and monetary spigots be kept open during hard times. Although tightening is arguably the best long-term path, it appears unlikely that it will be the primary policy of choice in the near future. The third method, toward which I see global central bankers drifting, is to keep interest rates artificially low and permit increasing levels of inflation in the economy.

            Pushing down the cost of borrowing and allowing the price level to rise is known as financial repression. The real value of debtors’ obligations is reduced by financially repressive policies. Keynes warned of the dangers of inflation in his early work, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, which presciently criticized the harshness of the Treaty of Versailles:

            ...By a continuing process of inflation, governments can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens ... As inflation proceeds and the real value of the currency fluctuates wildly, all permanent relations between debtors and creditors, which form the ultimate foundation of capitalism, become so utterly disordered as to be almost meaningless.

            Keynes re-iterated his views in the mid-1940s when he visited the United States and saw programs that were touted as Keynesian although he viewed them as primarily inflationary.

            Financial repression is nothing new. Between the 1940s and the early 1980s, the United States reduced its national debt from 140 percent of GDP to just 30 percent while continuing to run sizable deficits. The difference between then and now is the magnitude of the debt mountain on the Federal Reserve’s balance sheet that will need to be eroded. A subtle shift has begun in which policymakers are starting to think of inflation as a policy tool rather than the byproduct of their actions. Despite Keynes’ warnings, it appears that higher inflation will continue to be the monetary tool of choice for central bankers tasked with cleaning up sovereign balance sheets.

            Investment Implications

            The long-term downside of mounting inflationary pressure will ultimately accrue to bondholders and income-oriented investors. The case can be made that we are marching headlong into a generational bear-market for bonds. During the next decade, holders of Treasury and agency securities will likely realize negative real returns. Despite this, these assets continue to trade at extremely rich valuations. Exactly when the market will awaken to this anomaly in securities pricing remains to be determined. The analogy I would use for the current interest rate environment is that of a balloon being held underwater. When the Fed withdraws from the market and allows interest rates to find their economic level, the balloon will inevitably ascend.

            If investors need to stay in fixed-income assets, they should consider transitioning into shorter-duration credit and floating-rate products like bank loans and asset-backed securities. If duration targeting is a concern for liability-matching purposes, adjustable-rate assets can be barbelled with long-duration securities like corporate bonds or long duration agency mortgage securities. Equities and risk assets are likely to rise as the money supply grows.

            Gold, as I discussed in my October 2012 Market Perspectives, “Return to Bretton Woods,” has significant upside potentially and should be considered for inclusion in any portfolio designed to preserve or grow wealth over the long-term. Depending on the scale of the current round of quantitative easing and the decline in confidence in fiat currencies, the price of an ounce of gold could easily exceed $2,500 within a relatively short time frame and could ultimately trade much higher.

            The World is Waiting

            The Great Depression brought about the Keynesian Revolution, complete with new analytical tools and economic programs that have been relied upon for decades. The efficacy of these tools and programs has slowly been eroded over the years as the accumulation of policy actions has reduced the flexibility to deal with crises as we reach budget constraints and stretch the Fed’s balance sheet beyond anything previously imagined. Nations have exceeded their ability to finance themselves without relying on their central banks as lenders of last resort and increasingly large doses of monetary policy are required just to keep the economy expanding at a subpar pace. Some have referred to this as reaching the Keynesian endpoint.

            Keynes would barely recognize where we now find ourselves. In this ultra loose policy environment we are limited by our Keynesian toolkit. Today, the world is waiting for someone to come forward and explain how we are going to get out of our current circumstances without suffering the unintended consequences created by so-called Keynesian policies.

            Early in his life, Abraham Lincoln wrote that he regretted not having been present during the founding of the nation because that was when all the positions in the pantheon of great American leaders were filled. By resolving America’s Imperial Crisis through the Civil War and the abolishment of slavery, Lincoln would go on to join those lofty ranks himself. Much like that crisis needed Lincoln, the current crisis needs someone who can identify new tools to resolve the present economic crisis. Until then we are condemned to a path which leads to further currency debasement and the erosion of purchasing power, with the result being a massive transfer of wealth from creditor to debtor. Without a new economic paradigm, the deleterious consequences of the current misguided policies are a foregone conclusion. It would seem my Dad could hardly have been more correct when he described the next depression from behind the wheel of his 1969 Buick.

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 7:15 pm on Sun, Feb 24, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            Rick Spencer posted at 6:39 pm on Sun, Feb 24, 2013

            Try to stay on topic RS, HTC is not the subject of the commentary. The commentary starts out with: "What's good for the goose, is good for the gander." Would you like your goose marinated in fracking oil this evening, Master?

            http://jgruenke.com/#/projects/oil-and-water/01_OilAndWater

             
          • Rick Spencer posted at 7:12 pm on Sun, Feb 24, 2013.

            Rick Spencer Posts: 405

            kohana posted at 10:00 am on Sun, Feb 24, 2013.

            Well, I am a year older than you as I surpass the 3/4 century mark this coming Friday. You are right in that we have seen it all and experience much of it. It has not been easy, but it has been our life. I would suggest that we know that much of life is family, patriotism, country, and the freedom provided to speak our minds. I am sure others can add to that and I hope they do. I think the oddest aspect of growing older is that we are willing to sacrifice much to protect the future of our progeny. If they have no future, then the country has no future. And, it saddens me that so many are incapable of understanding that simple fact, our progeny are our gift and that so many in the present are willing to transfer their wealth to us as we transfer our debt to them in order that we have a life we did not earn, is beyond comprehension and is a totally selfish on its face and destructive to their future.. There is no explanation other than pure, outright selfishness.

            Happy Birthday Kohana and many more to come. I have always felt that Birthdays and Thanksgiving are the two nicest days of the year. One is personal and the other is family, and that is America at its finest. RLS

             
          • Rick Spencer posted at 6:39 pm on Sun, Feb 24, 2013.

            Rick Spencer Posts: 405

            From the negative comments about HTC, it would seem to me that most of you wish you were him, rather than yourself. Strange comments by most. You attack him personally rather than his solutions. On all of the blogs that I read, his ideas, intellect, commentary, and his ability to zero in on the false premise of others, he is the Master. You should praise him as he is attempting to build a better life for you and your progeny. Of course, if you believe in the free 'ice cream theory', then you have a bitter dislike of him and his cohorts. HTC does not dream, he produces and that is the essence of our country. He does not dream of a utopian existence, but does all that he can such that each citizen can be all that he can be. He does not need me to defend him, I just think that many of you should examine your comments as they are not productive in building a better life for all. If you do not believe in capitalism, then I would suggest a one way ticket to Cuba where I see that Raul has signed on for another five years where your dream life of beaches and warm weather may be reached. Free everything there except life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Since it is warm with sandy beaches, that and a Mojito may attenuate your harsh personal attacks. Give it a try and report back to us who are doing our best to create a lasting republic for our citizens. I would be more apt to believe your sincerity from there rather than here. RLS

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 5:45 pm on Sun, Feb 24, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            HighTechCowboy posted at 4:44 pm on Sun, Feb 24, 2013

            Did you ever consider a life as a high-tech robotic cowboy gunslinger and start a wild-west theme park for the tourist industry in Columbia Falls modeled after the 1973 science fiction-thriller film "Westworld" starring Yul Brynner? Were you ever one of his stunt doubles? The resemblance is uncanny when you take off your hat.

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 5:37 pm on Sun, Feb 24, 2013.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1563

            HighTechCowboy posted at 3:04 pm on Sun, Feb 24, 2013.

            "America began centuries ago as a major exporting-based economy....."

            This must have been before we poured billions of dollars into the OPEC nations? I don't remember the greedy elitists openly offering our most prized possessions to the lowest bidders back then.

            "With the advent of excessive taxes and regulations in the past several decades..."

            I may have told you this before, however, once again, corporations do NOT pay taxes the way you state they do. We may have the highest corporate tax rate on the planet but there are so many ways for these newly found "citizens" to get around the tax rules (loop holes) that not a single nickle gets paid to OUR government. I don't know what they end up paying other governments abroad, but they don't pay any substantive amount here.
            Also, do you not believe that board games should have rules to play by, or do you just make up your own rules as you play those games with your grandchildren?

            "bring back home the trillions of dollars of their foreign profits"

            Thanks for supporting my argument that America hater businessmen have sold us down the pike, and I for one do not believe they are eager to bring those dollars back here any time soon.

            "the world's illiterate poor in the form of tens of millions of illegals who share neither our language nor our values"

            I agree that this situation should never have been allowed to happen. Again, this is exactly why there has to be rules, and everyone should be equally responsible to follow said rules. The consequence of illegal immigration is staggering and we will never truly know the extent of what it has cost this country. I am against any form of appeasement to this particular group of law breakers especially amnesty.

            "You are sending the very people to Washington who are responsible for all that; so, if you want to know who's responsible for destroying American culture, just look in a mirror."

            Me? With my one little (almost meaningless) vote? Surely you jest? I would bet that my many conversations with our representatives in Washington have done far more to extend my POV than any vote I have ever made. So, as I look into the mirror, I see a person who tries to make a difference, tries to make our society a better place, in a fair and honest way, sans the greed.

            As far as the rest of your post, it seems you are okay with the new "global" mindset of selling America (along with our culture), to those who can afford it, one little piece at a time.


             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 5:07 pm on Sun, Feb 24, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            Doctors fight “gag orders” over fracking chemicals.
            Corporate Negligent Homicide?

            http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/2012/08/27/gvl10827.htm

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 5:07 pm on Sun, Feb 24, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            Bronco: I assume you disagree that capitalism encourages and rewards raping the planet. Scarce resources are harvested with complete disregard for the consequences. If an idea comes up that could keep some group/corporation/person from making a lot of money, it's a safe bet that idea will be buried, sometimes along with the inventor. Capitalism has become greed and self-interest. It has evolved beyond its usefulness in constructing and maintaining a civilized, compassionate society.

            HTC: I accidentally hit "post" before responding to this portion of your message.

            Your post is classic progressive 'thinking', even though you continue to insist that you're not a progressive. I guess while some in this world suffer from gender orientation confusion, others suffer from political orientation confusion.

            Yes, I do emphatically disagree with your statement that "capitalism encourages and rewards raping the planet." Certainly there are and have been some bad actors as there are in every human activity, but to judge all capitalists by their actions makes no more sense than insisting that all teachers are pedophiles because more than a few actually are.

            Much of the "raping of the planet" occurred before our science had evolved to the point where we began to understand the more subtle consequences of some of the things that we were doing. To vilify people who didn't know what they were doing when no one else did for quite some time isn't fair.

            These 'rapists' are just as plentiful on the left, masquerading as 'environmentalists' while they push technologies which actually add to environmental pollution such as electric/hybrid cars and 'green' energy. And they continue to do so in spite of the fact that scientific fact has proven their negative pollution load.

            Most capitalists want to build sustainable businesses that are environment-friendly; after all, they and their families have to live on the same planet. If they pollute their towns' water supplies or the regional air, they also suffer. They know that value and quality have to be included in their product/service and that customer satisfaction wins the race.

            The capitalist world you describe simply doesn't exist to any great degree because there's always someone willing to compete against a 'greedy' businessman by offering a better product for less. Of course, that may be a bit less the case today than it has been because that competition usually comes from the small business sector and the Democrats you continue to support have gotten in bed with big business (e.g., GE and Wall Street) and have made it tougher than ever to start up or maintain a small business.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 4:52 pm on Sun, Feb 24, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            Bronco: I assume you disagree that capitalism encourages and rewards raping the planet. Scarce resources are harvested with complete disregard for the consequences. If an idea comes up that could keep some group/corporation/person from making a lot of money, it's a safe bet that idea will be buried, sometimes along with the inventor. Capitalism has become greed and self-interest. It has evolved beyond its usefulness in constructing and maintaining a civilized, compassionate society.

            Bronco: And what are the others in that 'broad range of issues'?

            HTC: There's not room here to go into an exhaustive list, but some that readily come to mind are:

            (1) Teaching the evolutionary hypothesis as fact.
            (2) Teaching that FDR was a good man who saved us from the Great Depression.
            (3) Teaching that Federal power and authority trumps states and individuals rights.
            (4) Teaching that man is like a virus to this planet.
            (5) Teaching that we can conserve our way to wealth and prosperity.
            (6) Teaching that the U.S. is an imperialist and war-mongering power.
            (7) Teaching that equality must mean equal outcomes.
            (8) Teaching that successful people are actually just 'fortunate' people.
            (9) Teaching that there is such a thing as "enough wealth" and "enough income" for any one person.
            (10) Teaching that the majority is always right and consensus determines the truth.

            That's just a few of the "others"....

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 4:44 pm on Sun, Feb 24, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            IABD: The FBI's UCR depend on cities turning the information over to the counties, the counties turning info over to state and then to the FBI. They don't always make the deadline on time.
            Most of the violent deaths in the Flathead County for the last 20 years for instance were conveniently reduced to negligent homicide without including the label of violence.

            HTC: Yeah, yeah. I've heard all those stories/excuses before.

            IABD: There is also a higher rate of unemployment here in Montana than Hawaii that needs to be factored. Obviously, cities and counties in Montana presently do not want to turn in a bad report card because they are in the 'last best place' real estate business.

            HTC: More excuses. You don't think Hawaii is motivated to protect tourism which is so vital to their economy? And the nominal half a percentage point diference in unemployment means diddly squat.

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 3:28 pm on Sun, Feb 24, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            HighTechCowboy posted at 2:17 pm on Sun, Feb 24, 2013

            HTC-"The 2011 UCR (latest) shows that Hawaii's total violent crime rate per 100,000 is 287, versus Montana's 267."

            IABD- The FBI's UCR depend on cities turning the information over to the counties, the counties turning info over to state and then to the FBI. They don't always make the deadline on time.
            Most of the violent deaths in the Flathead County for the last 20 years for instance were conveniently reduced to negligent homicide without including the label of violence.
            There is also a higher rate of unemployment here in Montana than Hawaii that needs to be factored. Obviously, cities and counties in Montana presently do not want to turn in a bad report card because they are in the 'last best place' real estate business.

             
          • Bronco posted at 3:22 pm on Sun, Feb 24, 2013.

            Bronco Posts: 4328


            HTC: That's the best argument yet for dissolving our public school system which excels at propagandizing our children about a broad range of issues, from the myth of man-caused global warming to the 'evils' of capitalism.
            ----------------------
            Yeah, yeah, yeah...we could argue this till the cows come home. I assume you disagree that capitalism encourages and rewards raping the planet. Scarce resources are harvested with complete disregard for the consequences. If an idea comes up that could keep some group/corporation/person from making a lot of money, it's a safe bet that idea will be buried, sometimes along with the inventor. Capitalism has become greed and self-interest. It has evolved beyond its usefulness in constructing and maintaining a civilized, compassionate society.
            And what are the others in that 'broad range of issues'?

             
          • Fast posted at 3:16 pm on Sun, Feb 24, 2013.

            Fast Posts: 248

            TO PARAPHRASE ( kind of ) THE SLAVE MASTER! Release the Corporate controlled mined shapers.
            Wooops Social Media????????

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 3:04 pm on Sun, Feb 24, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9899

            Rebel Rouser: How can we maintain "our culture" when all money interests have chosen to support the "new and improved" global economy, while essentially turning their backs on the culture that made America strong in the first place.

            HTC: There's so much wrong with your entire post that it's difficult to decide where to begin in rebutting it.

            America began centuries ago as a major exporting-based economy selling goods and agricultural products to the Old World. Thus, we've always been tied to the "global economy"; yet, that never threatened our culture nor did concern for the economic impact of war prevent our drive for independence from England.

            In fact, it is the traditional American drive for success and continued improvement that has been a force behind our business expansions overseas for centuries. With the advent of excessive taxes and regulations in the past several decades, our own government has given our businesses even more reason to continue their expansion and growth abroad.

            For the past four years, Obama has refused to consider tax legislation which would allow our businesses to bring back home the trillions of dollars of their foreign profits which could fund the creation of hundreds of thousands of new jobs here, UNLESS he gets a 35% cut of those profits even though they were earned abroad and taxes on those profits have already been paid to the appropriate governments.

            We are the ONLY developed country that insists upon a piece of a pie that we have no right to claim.

            It is government which has turned its back on the capitalists who built this country and gave it the highest standard of living yet seen on the planet. THEY built that, NOT government.

            That same government now seeks to destroy American culture, both by teaching our children in public schools that there is no such thing as well as vilifying that culture when they do feel disposed to acknowledge its existence.

            The Department of Homeland Security has even branded those on the right who've embraced the principles of our Founders and the concepts in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution as the greatest threat to America.

            That same government welcomes and subsidizes the world's illiterate poor in the form of tens of millions of illegals who share neither our language nor our values, while they make it as difficult as possible for well-educated immigrants who play by the rules to come here and pursue the American dream the old-fashioned way.

            We even allow the world's best and brightest to come here to earn PhDs in our best colleges and universities, only to then send them back home and force them to begin the long process of trying to legally emigrate here while granting multiple amnesties to the millions who invade our national home illegally, suck down tens of billions of dollars in social services, and demand the return of the southwest to Mexico.

            You are sending the very people to Washington who are responsible for all that; so, if you want to know who's responsible for destroying American culture, just look in a mirror.

            Rebel Rouser: This is an open capitalistic nation where anyone with cash can buy, or have, any part of the U.S. that they want, and, they are greeted with open arms to buy and own "us" which includes all or a part of "our culture". Frank we have been, and are being sold, very cheaply on the open market to any and all buyers at bargain basement prices. Have you just awakened to this reality? Ever heard of Inbev?

            HTC: Your "bargain basement" argument is a total canard. Many, many U.S. businesses have been purchased at a premium by foreign investors.

            Apparently you think that foreign investment here is a bad thing and you couldn't be more wrong. That's massive amounts of foreign money flowing into OUR economy (or in some cases - e.g., China and OPEC countries - our own money coming back home.) Those monies help to grow our economy and create jobs. Those investments also give those investors a naked self-interest in the U.S. maintaining a strong, vibrant economy, often leading them to lobby on our behalf with their own governments back home.

            Foreign investment in our country is one reason why most of the recessions in my lifetime have been milder here than in the EU. Foreign investors have long viewed the U.S. as a better market to invest in than in their own home countries, both due to our lower taxes and regulatory burdens, as well as the fact that the rule of law could be counted upon here (well, at least until Obama, who threw out the rule of law on the GM and Chrysler bankruptcies.)

            But that's changed in the last ten years as many EU countries have reformed their corporate tax system and now offer much lower tax rates on business than we do. They've also streamlined and reduced much of their regulatory burden as well. Obama has taken us exactly in the wrong direction on those issues which is why we've seen a dramatic reduction in foreign investment compared to the historical norm.

            That is one reason why we've seen the slowest recovery since the end of WW II under Obama and Obama only intends to make the situation even worse with more taxes and more regulations to come.

            Until you figure this stuff out for yourself, you're going to keep send