Welcome!
|
||
Logout|My Dashboard

It’s our duty to preserve the ‘Blessings of Liberty’ - Daily Inter Lake: Columns

Login to DailyInterLake.com

Subscribers Click Here

Non Subscribers Click Here

It’s our duty to preserve the ‘Blessings of Liberty’

Print
Font Size:
Default font size
Larger font size

Posted: Sunday, August 15, 2010 12:00 am | Updated: 11:26 am, Thu Apr 17, 2014.

Liberals love to call the U.S. Constitution a “living document” — in other words, one that changes through time in order to keep up with the times.

And at one level, they are certainly right. Because the Constitution can be amended at any time through a difficult but manageable process, it can reflect the changing needs of our people.

Subscription Required

An online service is needed to view this article in its entirety. You need an online service to view this article in its entirety.

Have an online subscription?

Login Now

Need an online subscription?

Subscribe

Login

Choose an online service.

    Current print subscribers

      You must login to view the full content on this page.

      Thank you for reading 5 free articles on our site. You can come back at the end of your 30-day period for another 5 free articles, or you can purchase a subscription and continue to enjoy valuable local news and information. If you need help, please contact our office at 406-755-7000 . You need an online service to view this article in its entirety.

      Have an online subscription?

      Login Now

      Need an online subscription?

      Subscribe

      Login

      Choose an online service.

        Current print subscribers

          More about

          Welcome to the discussion.

          448 comments:

          • HighTechCowboy posted at 7:47 am on Sun, Aug 22, 2010.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9897

            Christopher, your sophomoric post is so typical of those that have nothing to offer themselves and are so aware of their own considerable shortcomings that the only way they can feel at all good about themselves is to try to belittle others.

            And are you a stalker of attractive women or just so in need of a life that you watched a women pushing newspapers for 15 minutes while supposedly vacationing here? Maybe you've always had this approach-avoidance thing where women are concerned. Perhaps one laughed at you once when you exposed another shortcoming.

            Certainly there's no shred of chivalry in your pathetic soul or you would have taken a free newspaper and smiled at the poor wretch.

            In any event, I am glad to hear that you only visit. Wouldn't want to think of you out there all year long possibly stalking one of my daughters. In fact, maybe you should start visiting San Francisco, if you don't already reside there. You'd fit in REALLY good.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 7:40 am on Sun, Aug 22, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "come on JB, you were the one to convince me to become legal after 40 years., "

            I SERIOUSLY doubt that anything I'm going to say or do is going to "change" you......that's O'Blamer's job.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 12:10 am on Sun, Aug 22, 2010.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            come on JB, you were the one to convince me to become legal after 40 years., did you space that I thanked you for that? it was so much easier, but illegal, when it was illegal. now that I am a law abiding citizen, which I have been in every other way than cannabis, I have to abide by the law.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 11:49 pm on Sat, Aug 21, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            ...and it is now "medical" marijuana, and it would be illegal for me to share unless you have your card.

            So, you ADMIT you were smoking dope BEFORE you got your card, right...???

            Oh, and I'm SURE.....based on your track record here.....that you checked EVERYONE's green cards at the Dead concert.

            Yeah.....and Bronco's cannonization is next week.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 11:40 pm on Sat, Aug 21, 2010.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            OH, did I mention you will have to go down and get your card first, as I am now legal, and it is now medical marijuana, and it would be illegal for me to share unless you have your card.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 11:33 pm on Sat, Aug 21, 2010.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            hey Frank - Frank - Frank -

            in the last couple of days I keep getting a message about a script running on this page, which could cause my computer to become unresponsive.......it has become a nuisance.

            just want you to know.

            hope no angry posters are hacking my computer.


            and, for what it is worth, I did take a free Sunday paper from Super One, one day.

            JB - I will share my pot with you anyday, I give, I contribute, I share...
            it may help you with your pain.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 11:14 pm on Sat, Aug 21, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "Someone shoot me."

            While your offer of hospitality IS tempting....I just won't be able to work it into my schedule.

            Couldn't you just cut yourself on a reef on shark day or something......???

             
          • Bronco posted at 10:52 pm on Sat, Aug 21, 2010.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            JFC, JB, listen to yourself, man. Imagine 50% of the US population made up of JBs. Someone shoot me.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 10:10 pm on Sat, Aug 21, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "Frank, Frank, Frank;"

            .....blah, blah....and, oh.....did I mention, blah.....


            So, THAT is your contribution to the discussion[s] at hand .....???

            C'mon down....the OTHER mincemeat is becoming tediously familiar.

             
          • Christopher posted at 9:24 pm on Sat, Aug 21, 2010.

            Christopher Posts: 41

            Frank, Frank, Frank;
            It’s truly inspiring, after so many long tedious and tiresome years of “editing” the Inter Lake, how you’ve selflessly refused the fame and accolades that surely would have come with accepting an offer from one of those big universities looking to snag a constitutional scholar of your caliber; or maybe one of those high-powered policy-making think tanks looking for another genius for its roster. You’ve remained in humble Kalispell, plying your humble trade, shoveling one steamy, rancid pile of your prose and “beliefs” out the door and into print. All hail Lord Frank! Master and Manipulator of all He surveys! And what hath Lord Frank begot his information-starved subjects? Behold; this pathetic, predictable, and pitiful excuse of a forum for local discussion on which you now gaze. Even this sad venue Lord Volde... (sorry), Lord Frank allows to be weekly (and weakly) hijacked by the same tiny cabal who can be counted on to trade the same boring insults and childish slapdowns; a “discussion” that wouldn’t pass for the same anywhere else in the English-speaking world. That’s half a dozen voices, out of a population of approximately 23,000. Hardly a representative sample, eh, Your Majesty? Rather than challenge their Master, they accept his hopeless lukewarm pap, each picking up a banner as they interpret their Lord’s meaning, then chop into each other, with affectations of understanding.
            And what does Lord Frank do as the weekly hack-fest goes on? Like any clever pseudo-intellectual slumlord, he sits back and allows the fruit of his labour to, well, bear more fruit. In this case that’s web hits; over 400 this week alone. Whilst his subjects pointlessly tear themselves to jerky, Lord Frank contemptuously looks down from on high, smirking as he thumbs his nose at the go-nowhere cyber dustup. Kalispell has been had! Take another Ermine robe out of petty cash, Your Highness, nice work!
            But wait, Your Worship, there’s more. I was visiting your blessed climes not long ago, reacquainting myself with some of what’s left of Montana. An empty ice chest brought me to Smiths for food when I chance to observe an attractive woman stationed by the front door, a table at her side stacked high with your proud product. I couldn’t resist the opportunity for a moment of research. At the risk of being collared for loitering I watched this poor woman for fifteen minutes, in which time she was able to reduce her stack of your product by exactly, zero! That’s right Lord Volde... (sorry), Lord Frank. Hundreds of people walked past this woman and she wasn’t even able to give your paper away to one of them. Evidently, none of you loyal subjects were at Smith’s that fine morning. Even a gratis price can’t draw folks to accept your product. Anymore of those Ermine robes left, Your Highness? No! Well, I guess that means the emperor has no clothes. Hugs and kisses Frank.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 6:46 pm on Sat, Aug 21, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "I think the man is a deist but unfortunately that's political suicide today. He has to pretend."

            Evidently, you don't or can't read his statements proclaiming time and again that he is CHRISTIAN....???

            So, is he "pretending" to pray as well...???

            No, he's a staunch follower of Reverend Wright.....an avowed Marxist/Socialist:

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gj3jyW-kSFI

            And, very level headed about it:

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nH5ixmT83JE

            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

            "Why do you need a president who prays in public?"

            I'd like you to produce THAT quote......sheesh....I never even intimated it.

            On one hand we have:


            You are here: Home / Barack Obama / Obama Quotes From the Qur’an During the National Prayer Breakfast
            Obama Quotes From the Qur’an During the National Prayer Breakfast
            Thursday, February 5, 2009

            Barack Obama, who has repeatedly denied being a Muslim or practicing the Muslim faith, quoted the Qur’an during the traditional February National Prayer Breakfast this morning.

            According to online reports, Obama quoted from a Hadith “from the sayings and actions of Mohammad, the prophet of Islam, in an attempt to show all great religions have a concept of the golden rule…”

            Said Obama:

            Jesus told us to “love thy neighbor as thyself.” The Torah commands, “That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow.” In Islam, there’s a hadith that reads “None of you truly believes until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for himself.

            But according to Ztruth:

            The same hadith is reported by Bukhari 1.2.12

            “The Prophet said, “None of you will have faith till he wishes for his (MUSLIM) brother what he likes for himself.”

            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~

            Versus:

            PRESIDENT OBAMA'S ADDRESS TO THE NATIONAL PRAYER BREAKFAST - FEBRUARY 5, 2009


            I didn't become a Christian until many years later, when I moved to the South Side of Chicago after college. It happened not because of indoctrination or a sudden revelation, but because I spent month after month working with church folks who simply wanted to help neighbors who were down on their luck -- no matter what they looked like, or where they came from, or who they prayed to. It was on those streets, in those neighborhoods, that I first heard God's spirit beckon me. It was there that I felt called to a higher purpose -- His purpose."

            If he "heard God's spirit beckon him"....isn't he some sort of LUNATIC according to YOUR definition....??? Or is it that anyone BUT O'Blamer is some kind of nutcase in conversing with God [i.e. praying] EXCEPT O'Blamer.

            OH.....now I get it.

            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

            I call him "O'Blamer" because after two YEARS in office, still NOTHING is his "fault"....at least according to him and the DNC. I figure George Bush must be one powerful shaman if he can possess him like that and control EVERYTHING he does....after all, It's ALWAYS "Bush's Fault".

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 6:29 pm on Sat, Aug 21, 2010.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9897

            Bronco: I think the man is a deist but unfortunately that's political suicide today. He has to pretend.
            -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            I just wish he could feign intelligence.

             
          • Bronco posted at 6:04 pm on Sat, Aug 21, 2010.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            I don't know anyone named O'Blamer. Is he Irish?

            Why do you need a president who prays in public?

            He seems to be keeping religion out of politics like the Founders intended and you still complain. There's no pleasing you.

            I think the man is a deist but unfortunately that's political suicide today. He has to pretend.

            Like I pretend to be civil to you. Keeps me in the room. You, however, seem to be enjoying the 'pass.'

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 4:21 pm on Sat, Aug 21, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "How stupid."

            According you you and others, anyone how carries on a conversation with God is some sort of deficient maniac.

            Please explain O'Blamer's PRAYING....???

            Why does THAT get a pass.....???

             
          • Bronco posted at 3:39 pm on Sat, Aug 21, 2010.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            An earlier Harris Poll finds that “a quarter of Tea Party supporters believe he may be the Anti-Christ.”

            How cute.

            "In having to rebut charges that he’s a Muslim, Obama seems to be in good company. Abe Lincoln’s political opponents rumored that he was Roman Catholic, Franklin Roosevelt’s that he was secretly Jewish. There is still a sizable chunk of voters who would not vote for Mitt Romney for president because he’s Mormon – not a Christian religion, some theologians argue."

            How stupid.

            Source: Great article in today's Christian Science Monitor "Why doesn’t Obama wear his religion on his sleeve?"

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 2:45 pm on Sat, Aug 21, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "f you mean pot, yes, I will sample, for at a show everyone shares."

            So, what to YOU "share".....??? Or do you just leech off the rest of the crowd....???

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 2:43 pm on Sat, Aug 21, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "with access to my medical history....???
            you have a website dedicated to it."

            That's a steaming pile. Very LITTLE of my medical history is encapsulated in the Project SHAD topics.

            So, supply some FACTS about my current medical condition based on my "website dedicated to it". Start with 2008.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 1:04 pm on Sat, Aug 21, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558


            http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/08/hes_not_a_muslim_not_that_ther.html

            August 20, 2010
            He's Not a Muslim! (Not that There's Anything Wrong with That)

            By C. Edmund Wright

            With two major polls out this week showing that many millions of Americans think the president is Muslim, the Jurassic media's panicked reaction can be characterized only as hilariously Seinfeld-esque. And by Seinfeld-esque, I refer to the famous episode where Jerry and George are mistaken for a gay couple -- a charge they recoil from in horror while repeating the line, "Not that there's anything wrong with that."

            I think we all get the implication. And we have all heard the media shouting this week that Obama is not a Muslim -- not that there's anything wrong with that, of course.

            So when you couple these polls and the media's reaction to them -- not to mention the whole issue of the Ground Zero Mosque -- I submit it is fair to ask if President Obama is now in need of some serious "Jesus Cred."

            Consider a little history:

            In March of 2008, the initial unmasking of Barack Obama started in earnest as it became obvious to at least a swath of America that the presidential candidate had cynically handpicked Jeremiah Wright's Trinity United Church to gain his "black street cred."

            After all, he had arrived in Chicago with all kinds of white cred -- a Hawaiian prep school and the Ivy League, not to mention the fact that he was light-skinned, clean, articulate, and spoke with no Negro dialect unless he wanted to. (And we would like to "give a shout-out" to Joe Biden and Harry Reid for helping us construct that description.)

            That was all well and good for a career as a national politician in a white guilt-laden nation -- but first came the bothersome detail of actually starting a political career in the inner city of Chicago. White cred is but funny money in certain areas there.

            And nothing could dub Obama as black enough to win Chi-town votes quicker than assimilation into the anti-white, anti-capitalist, and anti-American Black Liberation Theology community. These folks are most definitely "down for the struggle."

            Feel free to read some Black Liberation Theology literature if you doubt it is all of the above. Besides, have you seen Obama's jump shot lately? It screams "White Men Can't Jump!" He needed something else.

            Of course, Ground Zero for Black Liberation Theology in the City of Broad Shoulders was Trinity Church, and its high priest was Jeremiah Wright. Wright, as we know, must be capable of some kind of Jedi mind tricks, as he was able to use sermons to simultaneously inspire Obama's first (or was it his second?) autobiography and put him to sleep for twenty years.

            Nevertheless, it worked. Obama's black street cred was established well enough for him to quickly job-hop through Chicago and Illinois politics -- voting "present" at every step along the way. Black street cred was indeed established, and Obama carried over 90% of the black vote in the '08 election.

            Now, in the summer of 2010, with his poll numbers tanking almost everywhere except on the "Muslim question," it is fair to muse that maybe Obama should trot Wright back out to establish some "Jesus Cred." This is a president who is becoming more and more of a mystery to many the more they find out about him, and fewer and fewer believe Obama has any Jesus cred as time goes on.

            And the media reaction is so predictable.

            Of course, when secular liberals start trying to go all religious on us, it becomes an intellectual struggle. Their dots do not connect. The fragile construct they had concocted about Obama's faith life is starting to crumble. That's why America is simultaneously getting to know Obama better and knowing less about him at the same time.

            The entire issue of religion in the 2008 campaign was somewhat successfully pigeonholed into neat little compartments by the media -- pigeonholes that have little to do with reality. Everything was built around hiding or obfuscating or outright lying about who Obama is and what he believes.

            On the one hand, we were told that Obama's relationship with Wright was irrelevant and that he slept through the hateful messages -- and on the other, TUCC was where Obama practiced his professed Christianity and received inspirations for his writings. We were told that in spite of that, Obama's relationship with Wright was no more of an issue than was John McCain's with John Hagee, an evangelical preacher with whom McCain had shared a lectern on occasion.

            And through all of this, we were required to have enough suspension of belief to count Black Liberation Theology as Christian in the first place. Right. Never mind Jeremiah Wright's relationship with and support of Louis Farrakhan.

            We were told to fear Sarah Palin's devout faith -- and yet told to embrace Obama's professed Christian conversion. Every stone in Wasilla was overturned in hopes of finding some evidence of Palin's handling of snakes or casting out of demons -- while the entire "no no no -- G.D. America" tape collection available on the Trinity Church website was ignored for months and months.

            We were told that Obama is certainly not a Muslim, yet he would have a magical ability to reach out to the Muslim world -- thus ending America's role as a terror target. We were told that the world, especially the Muslim world, would continue to hate America if we elected a religious nut like Palin, however.

            Of course, none of that makes any sense -- and that becomes clearer and clearer to more and more Americans under the microscope of the Ground Zero Mosque issue. And it's not the mosque issue alone, of course. As theorized by J.R. Dunn, that could simply be the tipping point.

            There's the skipping of the Boy Scout's 100th Anniversary Ceremony. There's the golf instead of church almost every Sunday. There's the "clinging to their guns and religion" comment. There's the anti-Israel comments and policies. And on and on.

            So now we have a president haunted by the idea that he is really a Muslim -- and not a Christian at all. How delicious it is that his blatantly secular liberal supporters are totally impotent at fighting this battle for him -- given that so many Americans take faith seriously?

            And going back to Wright's Trinity Church will not help. There will be no Jesus Cred available there. Listen to the tapes or order the books. You will simply find Black Liberation Theology and Marxism and so on. Jesus? Not so much.

            So Americans will likely continue to think of Obama as a Muslim in increasing numbers. But hey -- "not that there's anything wrong with that."

            Is there?

             
          • jennydoe posted at 1:03 pm on Sat, Aug 21, 2010.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            with access to my medical history....???
            you have a website dedicated to it.

            Disappointed....??? - no, I suppose if I wanted to try it, I could obtain it.

            I expect your next claim to be that you NEVER sample the wares - if you mean pot, yes, I will sample, for at a show everyone shares.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 12:48 pm on Sat, Aug 21, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "There is never plenty of hash, and nobody has ever offered me ecstasy."

            Disappointed....???

            I expect your next claim to be that you NEVER sample the wares.

            Yeah, OK......

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 12:22 pm on Sat, Aug 21, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "it has been my pleasure to remind you to take your meds when it is obvious the levels drop."

            I know in your own spiteful little mind you consider that to be "funny", but please explain what conditions I experience and what medications I take for them. Or, am I mistaken that somewhere in your condescending life you became a pharmacologist with access to my medical history....???

             
          • jennydoe posted at 12:11 pm on Sat, Aug 21, 2010.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            There is never plenty of hash, and nobody has ever offered me ecstasy.


            to my dismay? it has been my pleasure to remind you to take your meds when it is obvious the levels drop.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 11:45 am on Sat, Aug 21, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "You probably pop more pills in one week than I have my entire life."

            Perhaps, but outside of the acid, there's ALWAYS plenty of hash and pot to go around and a fair amount of ecstasy I'd presume.

            As for the pills I "pop"....why don't you TRY a handful and see how "high" you get...??? My choice is between taking my medications and dying.....and, I'm going with the medications no matter HOW tedious it is to keep them on schedule, no doubt MUCH to your dismay.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 11:39 am on Sat, Aug 21, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "Got some facts? "Cite your source" is soon to follow"

            So, which of the websites I mentioned WERE you quoting...???

            Please don't present statements as your own that are TOTALLY out of character for your communication style and content exhibited thus far herein. We're not all THAT stupid as you may presume.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 11:33 am on Sat, Aug 21, 2010.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            oh I did like your story about the door knockers JB.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 11:27 am on Sat, Aug 21, 2010.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            wonderful president
            http://www.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&safe=off&biw=1680&bih=850&tbs=isch%3A1&sa=1&q=george+bush+wonderful+president&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

            our hero
            http://www.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&safe=off&biw=1680&bih=850&tbs=isch%3A1&sa=1&q=george+bush+our+hero&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

            just george
            http://www.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&safe=off&biw=1680&bih=850&tbs=isch:1&aq=f&aqi=g10&oq=&gs_rfai=&q=george%20bush

            just barack
            http://www.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&safe=off&biw=1680&bih=850&tbs=isch%3A1&sa=1&q=barack+obama&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

            amazing contrast. Thanx JB for pointing me in that direction.
            http://www.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&safe=off&biw=1680&bih=850&tbs=isch%3A1&sa=1&q=albert+einstein&aq=0&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=albert&gs_rfai=

             
          • Bronco posted at 11:21 am on Sat, Aug 21, 2010.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            Hey, kids, let's all play the JBSTONE game. Post your opinion then have your every comment ripped, yourself insulted, maybe called a few unsavory names by our own in-house self-righteous critic...JB.
            But the fun doesn't end there! Sit back and read JB's comments that are filled with the very words he finds offensive if you use them. He'll call you a hater while he's hating. He'll call you a bigot then deny it. Got some facts? "Cite your source" is soon to follow, cuz JB likes to dismiss and ridicule your sources too.

            And no matter how uncivil, how vile, how insulting, how nasty JB treats you...his Comrade in Harms, HTC, will approve. Because if you're on HTC's side, you have to be Right, and there's nothing wrong with Right.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 11:15 am on Sat, Aug 21, 2010.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            If you're going to link to a google search page, you should go one step further and link to the images page, they are absolutly hysterical! even the pics with Obama.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 11:05 am on Sat, Aug 21, 2010.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            For me it was the music JB. The love. The smiles.
            You probably pop more pills in one week than I have my entire life.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 10:56 am on Sat, Aug 21, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "Oh, PLEEEEZE......the Left's ENTIRE attack on the Bush Administration was BASED on FACTS....still is..."

            Yeah..OK...perhaps in your drug addled pate....

            http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&biw=1680&bih=850&q=george+bush%2C+idiot&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=g2&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

            http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&biw=1680&bih=850&q=george+bush+monkey&aq=0&aqi=g5g-m1&aql=&oq=george+bush%2Cmonk&gs_rfai=

            I suppose those are right wing web sites....???

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 10:53 am on Sat, Aug 21, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "the Dead Head religion is one I could have easily adapted, had I not been so conditioned to make a living. Although I have seen part of my share of shows, even from being in Colorado or Montana most my life, I always had admiration for those souls that were able to show hop"

            Man....no surprise there....worshiping mind altering drugs. That explains a lot of your posts.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 10:44 am on Sat, Aug 21, 2010.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            Today I found out that the mathematical volume of a pizza is pizza. How does that work you say? Well if z = radius of the pizza and a = the height then Π * radius2 * height = Pi * z * z * a = Pizza.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 10:40 am on Sat, Aug 21, 2010.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            Oh, PLEEEEZE......the Left's ENTIRE attack on the Bush Administration was BASED on name calling....still is....
            --------------------------------------------------
            Oh, PLEEEEZE......the Left's ENTIRE attack on the Bush Administration was BASED on FACTS....still is....

            FTFY

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 10:09 am on Sat, Aug 21, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "Yes there are liberals that name call. But from what I have seen, it is usually the conservatives that name call."

            Oh, PLEEEEZE......the Left's ENTIRE attack on the Bush Administration was BASED on name calling....still is....

             
          • jennydoe posted at 9:54 am on Sat, Aug 21, 2010.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            Rob123 - the Dead Head religion is one I could have easily adapted, had I not been so conditioned to make a living. Although I have seen part of my share of shows, even from being in Colorado or Montana most my life, I always had admiration for those souls that were able to show hop. Jerry and the boys provided such a peaceful, joyous harmony. Amazing to get several thousand people together without conflict , everyone gleaming at each other with total love and admiration, leaving no cigarette butts behind. I will never forget any of it, but the Telluride show was way special. Makes me want to get up and dance for hours on end.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 9:52 am on Sat, Aug 21, 2010.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9897

            Who's ObamaCare's Daddy?
            Now even liberals are denying paternity.
            WSJ
            August 21, 2010

            "I know this is a tough vote," President Obama told House Democrats at a March pep rally merely hours before they passed national health care. But he added that he was "actually confident" that "it will end up being the smart thing to do politically because I believe that good policy is good politics." Apparently not, as even some liberal lobbies are now being forced to concede.
            On Thursday, Families USA hosted a "messaging" conference call with Democrats and Democratic allies, admitting that ObamaCare has not in fact become more popular since it passed. Families USA called for a wholesale shift in how Democrats now attempt to sell its handiwork to the public, the central theme being that "The law is not perfect, but it does good things and helps many people. Now we'll work to improve it."

            That's according to the power point presentation that accompanied the briefing, as first reported by Ben Smith of Politico.com. "Don't make grand claims about the law," another slide added. "Use 'improve it' language." But wait: Wasn't improvement supposed to be the point of ObamaCare?

            The presentation was based on internal polling done by the Herndon Alliance, which was formed in 2005 to lobby for national health care and whose daisy chain of "partners" includes the Center for American Progress, AARP and the unions AFL-CIO, SEIU and AFSCME. That Families USA would endorse this strategic switcheroo is especially notable—make that astonishing—given that a plan like ObamaCare has been the group's existential goal for two decades. This is like Moses saying that, on second thought and after consulting with his pollster, maybe the land of milk and honey is overrated.

            So much, too, for the liberal claim—or delusion—at the time of the ObamaCare votes that failing to pass it would be worse politically. "I think Democrats fully understand they have to pass this legislation," Families USA president Ron Pollack said in January. "The alternative is an absolute disaster."

            Bill Clinton also importuned reluctant Democrats with the revisionist history that Republicans took the House in 1994 not because of HillaryCare but to punish his party for failing to pass it. In one bit of widely reported advice, Mr. Clinton conceded that ObamaCare was unpopular but told Members to "put the corn where the hogs can get to it." To translate from the Bubba idiom, he meant that if they explained it simply and clearly, voters would come around.

            Not according to the Families USA Herndon presentation. "Keep claims small and credible; don't overpromise or 'spin' what the law delivers," it advised. Its "to don't" items include offering "a long list of benefits" or claims that "the law will reduce costs and the deficit," even as "Voters are concerned about rising health care costs and believe that costs will continue to rise."

            Looping back to Mr. Obama's political advice, his government takeover of health care is unpopular because it is arguably the worst legislation since the Smoot-Hawley Tariff, and the voters know it. Still, it's amazing to see Democrats now pretend for election purposes that the bill they said would be an achievement for the liberal ages is something other than what they passed. Voters should demand DNA samples, aka, Democratic voting records.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 9:51 am on Sat, Aug 21, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            I did have one memorable moment with two unsuspecting proselytizers......I had just shooed off a Seventh Day Adventist when a Jehovah's Witness showed up at my door.....having the diabolical sense of humor I possess, I just handed him the last guy's literature and he stood there, stunned, as I closed the door. I swear it's a true story.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 9:40 am on Sat, Aug 21, 2010.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            HTC - Are you sure they were Mormons? Seems more likely that they were Jehovah Witnesses
            -------------------------------
            We couldn't contain our laughter, but I am fairly sure they were Mormon, big push for the religion back then,
            the JW's usually were older folks, mixed with children.,
            Does it matter? Door to door pushing religion is not like sharing the bounties of the garden, although the pushers may think so.


             
          • jennydoe posted at 9:35 am on Sat, Aug 21, 2010.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            Ever notice, JB, how quick the left is to accuse others of bigotry while they're so blind to their own? It's almost always the left that is labelling someone a bigot or playing the race card. They see bigotry everywhere because they are bigots.
            -----------------------------------
            jennydoe: what a bunch of crap. who calls who bigots?
            -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Umm, could be the left. Let's see:

            (1) Disagree with Obama's policies? It's because you're a bigot.
            (2) Want immigration law enforced? You're a bigot.
            (3) Against gay marriage? You're a bigot.
            (4) Don't want a mosque built near Ground Zero? You're a bigot.
            (5) Want to end affirmative action? You're a bigot?
            (6) Want the Black Panthers prosecuted for voter intimidation? Yep, you're a bigot.
            (7) Arrest a black professor? Sure thing - you're a bigot.
            (8) The Tea Party? Well, of course, they're all bigots!
            (9) If you think there's a connection between Islam and 9/11, you're a bigot.
            (10) If you don't believe that racism is nearly as present in this country as it was 100 years ago, you're clearly a bigot.

            I could go on but, if you have even a shred of intellectual honesty, you'll have to acknowledge my point
            -----------------------------------
            jennydoe: i DEFY you to show where i ever called anyone a BIGOT!!!!!!! so think what you will about my honesty, @sshole.
            -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Well, you didn't have to take it personally, Jennydoe. I wasn't saying that YOU had said those things - only that many on the left are very quick to toss that label out there as well as to play the race card. My list was a list of circumstances which frequently do prod some on the left to respond with "bigot!"

            If you still don't believe that, then cut and paste "You're a bigot if" into google and look at the the countless, overwhelmingly liberal hits that pop up.

            So, can you at least acknowledge that many other liberals are quick to respond this way?
            -------------
            all = many, some, many.
            Yes there are liberals that name call. But from what I have seen, it is usually the conservatives that name call.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 8:44 am on Sat, Aug 21, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            I admire the president for his even application regarding the freedom for ANY religious group to build whatever they like on their property.......

            http://media.nola.com/stevekelley/photo/19august10tooncolorjpg-f618812bac10f022_large.jpg

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:38 am on Sat, Aug 21, 2010.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9897

            Rob123: But please, feel free to add long sentences of explanation using your skill as Dr. Sophistry lighting up the Ideological Right Wing of Political Hades.
            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Yes, facts coupled with logic generally do look like "sophistry" to the liberal 'mind'.

            Your response not only demonstrates a significant character defect but your profound hatred for the right as well. You give away so much about yourself and its not pretty.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 8:37 am on Sat, Aug 21, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "So, can you at least acknowledge that many other liberals are quick to respond this way?"

            I kind of liked her high class rant, keep striking those nerves.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 8:36 am on Sat, Aug 21, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "Are you sure they were Mormons? Seems more likely that they were Jehovah Witnesses."

            Well, the dead giveaway is when you can read the little black & white badge above their breast pocket that says, "Elder *****".......now, THAT is funny. How some 20 year old kid classifies as an "elder" confounds me to this day. Elder than WHAT...???

            http://www.mormonmissionprep.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/LDS_missionary_name_tags.jpg

            Otherwise, I couldn't ride a bike with a suit on in 90 degree heat, so I can't demean them. I also have NEVER seen or heard of any group of Mormon Terrorists.

            I wonder how they fair at muslim households.....???

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:28 am on Sat, Aug 21, 2010.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9897

            jennydoe: So really HTC, you post a story about tasing someone, basically to see if you can get a reaction, unjustified.
            ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            That wasn't the reason for posting the story. I was responding to Rebel Rouser's claim that atheists are more moral and trustworthy than Christians. The story was about a major a$$hole, wife-beating atheist.

            The reason I left some of the detail out initially was to see how you'd all respond.

            Why did I do that?

            Because I know how quick liberals are to judge and to jump to conclusions before they have all the facts.

            Sure enough, that's exactly what happened and I was immediately written off by some of you as a mean-spirited jerk. And not just me, but also the Republican party and I'm not even a Republican.

            Yes, I know that many on the left, possibly you as well, really resent me for this clever trap for it did such a marvellous job of displaying the real character and mindset of liberals: They're long on thinking the worst of others not of their ideological persuasion and VERY short on facts.

            If Rob had first responded with QUESTIONS to get the details that were obviously missing, THAT would have been impressive and he would demonstrated that he's not the kind that "shoots first and asks questions (if at all) later."

            And now we're left with another test: Do liberals have the honesty and integrity to apologize when they've jumped to conclusions and falsely judged someone and a political party that wasn't even involved.?

            Now, if you see that as merely some "king of the mountain" kind of thing, well, you might check your own integrity dipstick because you might be a quart low. Or you might be a liberal.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:14 am on Sat, Aug 21, 2010.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9897

            jennydoe: My sister, Barbara Jo, and I were about 14 and 15, respectively, when a couple Mormon dudes, came riding up, full suits, coats, ties and all. had to be about 90 degrees out, as we were in our bikinis running through the sprinklers.
            ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Are you sure they were Mormons? Seems more likely that they were Jehovah Witnesses.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:11 am on Sat, Aug 21, 2010.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9897

            jennydoe: i DEFY you to show where i ever called anyone a BIGOT!!!!!!! so think what you will about my honesty, @sshole.
            -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Well, you didn't have to take it personally, Jennydoe. I wasn't saying that YOU had said those things - only that many on the left are very quick to toss that label out there as well as to play the race card. My list was a list of circumstances which frequently do prod some on the left to respond with "bigot!"

            If you still don't believe that, then cut and paste "You're a bigot if" into google and look at the the countless, overwhelmingly liberal hits that pop up.

            So, can you at least acknowledge that many other liberals are quick to respond this way?

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 7:59 am on Sat, Aug 21, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "Now you are calling Rob out? Has it ever occurred to you he may have a life?"

            A tangled random mass of happenstance perhaps.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 2:43 am on Sat, Aug 21, 2010.

            Rob123 Posts: 6595

            jennydoe...."...she had ribbons in her hair and bells on her shoes... " (-: One of my favorite songs of all time! Thank you.....a nice way to wake in the morning, and now the song is running through my head. "...one of those flashes, I've been here before, been here before....."

             
          • Rob123 posted at 2:34 am on Sat, Aug 21, 2010.

            Rob123 Posts: 6595

            HighTechCowboy posted at 7:20 pm on Tue, Aug 17, 2010.
            Posts: 857
            Rebel Rouser: I have NEVER seen an atheist rolling around on the ground (in the straw) yammering some other world's gibberish, rolling eyes into the back of their heads, and jerking around all over the place, that's some good fun!!!
            ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            I have. Of course, the jerking part stopped after we quit tasing him.

            And he seemed a bit more normal the next day at his booking, after he'd come down from his PCP-laced MJ high.
            ***************************************
            That was your original post that I responded to, HTC. And, after a day of fishing with the Chicago In-Laws, and a good nights sleep of almost 6 hours, my not responding to your self proclaimed defence of your actions has more to do with your Right Wing Sophistry that can get you out of any jam and reverse the accusing finger with great rhetorical skill, than my own sense of pride. Your slick, but not so slick as to slide by everything. My statement stands! And so does your Sophistry, apparently.
            PCP is an absolutely stupid drug that causes stupid people to become even more stupid and outrageously dangerous. That we both can agree on. From your original post, which had a touch of honesty to it, I could see the nasty boy in a man's body, with uniform and badge, enjoying the electrical discharge raging through the body of a stupid person experiencing the chemically enduced paranoia of a psychotic break. I rest my case. But please, feel free to add long sentences of explanation using your skill as Dr. Sophistry lighting up the Ideological Right Wing of Political Hades. However, I don't have to react to it.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 12:15 am on Sat, Aug 21, 2010.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            So really HTC, you post a story about tasing someone, basically to see if you can get a reaction, unjustified.
            Now you are calling Rob out? Has it ever occurred to you he may have a life? Why do you purposely construe a statement that may have to entice an apology in the future? What is it about the mentality of always having to be right? I don't get it. Do you receive brass ball(s) in heaven for being the king of the mountain?

            ...she had ribbons in her hair and bells on her shoes...

             
          • jennydoe posted at 11:36 pm on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            Rebel - 7. Atheists NEVER dress up in a full dress suit then go out and ride a bicycle.
            --------------------
            My sister, Barbara Jo, and I were about 14 and 15, respectively, when a couple Mormon dudes, came riding up, full suits, coats, ties and all. had to be about 90 degrees out, as we were in our bikinis running through the sprinklers. We thought they were crazy - they thought we were hot! But what is really funny is Barb had a mormon boyfriend in high school, went to the Tabernacle in Salt Lake, got indoctrined or whatever it is one does to be accepted by a religion. She was waiting for awhile while he was on his mission, but ended up going out with a male stripper! hahahahahahaha, since she was/is a stauch republican, unable to explain why at times, and hates it when I remind her of her Mormon past.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 11:20 pm on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            HTC - I could go on but, if you have even a shred of intellectual honesty, you'll have to acknowledge my point.
            ----------------------
            you know htc, i am honest. i have never, in my entire life, called anyone a bigot. nor have i ever said, “i hate you.”
            i may say you are crazy, or point out other deficiencies, but i have never called anyone a bigot. ignorant, yes. bigot, no. stupid, yes. ignorant, yes. bigot, no. jerk, yes, @sshole, yes. bigot -no. you have classified the left, which you have classified me as, as bigots. you have called democrats bigots. you all have a horrible problem of saying we say what you say. but as jb would say, and you, now that you are forming such a deep relationship, i DEFY you to show where i ever called anyone a BIGOT!!!!!!! so think what you will about my honesty, @sshole.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 9:49 pm on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9897

            Rob123: Rob: Speaking of Self control, reading HTC's description of tasing someone on pcp and enjoying the agony of a psychotic break, it's obvious that behind his school learned logic lies a mean, angry, little boy.
            -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            So, I'm curious, Rob. You've been silent about this since I provided the remaining detail surrounding this incident.

            Do you still stand by your original statement or are you just too proud to apologize?

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 9:34 pm on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9897

            Rebel Rouser: How about truth, morals, and ethics? All of these are pre-installed HUMAN traits.
            -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Wow, RR, you must be light years ahead of the evolutionary psychologists who wouldn't dare make a statement like that! You might share your findings with them and spare them decades of additional and needless research.

            Of course, if you don't have any breakthrough science to share with all of us, then you just made a giant faith-based declaration, so I welcome you into the brotherhood of people of faith.

            Hug Hug....


             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 9:27 pm on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9897

            Rebel Rouser: No atheist has EVER come to my door at 7:30 am to try and convince me to become an atheist.

            HTC: Maybe not, but they do have a booth at the fair right now.

            Rebel Rouser: Atheists don't have a TAX FREE business status.

            HTC: Oh, yes they do! Some that I know of:

            (1) Secular Coalition for America
            (2) Institute for Humanist Studies
            (3) Atheist Alliance
            (4) Camp Quest (Kiddie atheist camp)
            (5) Freedom From Religion Foundation
            (6) International Humanist and Ethical Union

            Rebel Rouser: Atheists are not so unsure of their POV that they have to reinforce it by fellowship, prayer meetings, or group hugs (except for ladies night).

            HTC: They just form tax-exempt organizations, hold meetings and conferences and generally fellowship while pretending that it's totally different than what believers do.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 8:33 pm on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            Next best match for Bronco's "original thought"....

            http://humanistteachercorps.org/who_we_are/about_humanism/Some_Reasons_Why_Humanists_Reject_the_Bible

            Runner up: http://www.taintedthoughts.com/item/god_is_hate [the tone of which actually matches they vehemence in "your" stance.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 8:27 pm on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            You MAY disregard the Bible as a reliable source, but that STILL doesn't explain why you you don't believe in God.

            Secondly, most of the quotes you supplied are NOT from the New Testament, so they cannot be construed as "Christian".

            I'd like to know WHERE you're pulling your quotes from, as it seems HIGHLY unlikely that you would actually spend that much time and effort investigating a rather long set of writings only to come up with a few verses you find abhorrent.

            It's MY contention you are leaning heavily on THIS site: http://www.weseekthetruth.org/articles/article105.html since I just googled one of your "statements" and it came up as a VERBATIM match to that site. These are NOT "your" comments....only some you conveniently agree with.

            Uh.....let's make that TWO perfect matches of randomly selected portions of "your" argument.....which is linked to the "forum"... http://pub16.bravenet.com/forum/static/show.php?usernum=1351650452&frmid=362&msgid=0

            You've been exposed once more.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 8:09 pm on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "My moral compass? How about truth, morals, and ethics? All of these are pre-installed HUMAN traits."

            "pre" installed....by WHOM.......WHEN....???

            This means that your conscience exists BEFORE you do. How is THAT possible if there is "no spirit"...???

            "Muslims and Christians are like gang bangers, groups of individuals teaming up to do whatever they can to get what they want."

            So, then...all atheists are independent and they have the same moral fiber rules of conduct and NONE are ever serial killers, rapists, or any OTHER kind of violent criminals BECAUSE they have been "saved" from the effects of religion......right.....???

            Very interesting. You STILL have as yet named NO such individuals you would find to be "good" candidates. Why is THAT...??? I'd think you'd be ANXIOUS to show us the shining examples of your "beliefs".....which you have largely described as what they are NOT......still to vague to act upon in my estimation.

             
          • Bronco posted at 6:30 pm on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            I reject the Bible is an unreliable authority because it contains numerous contradictions. Logically, if two statements are contradictory, at least one of them is false. The biblical contradictions therefore prove that the book has many false statements and is not infallible. This also proves that the Bible is NOT the Word of a Perfect Being.

            I also reject the Bible because it approves of outrageous cruelty and injustice. In civilized legal systems, a fundamental principle is that the suffering of the innocent is the essence of injustice. Yet the Bible teaches that God repeatedly violated this moral precept by harming innocent people.

            To name a few: He damned the whole human race and cursed the entire creation because of the acts of two people (Genesis 3:16-23; Romans 5:18); he drowned pregnant women and innocent children and animals at the time of the Flood (Genesis 7:20-23); he tormented the Egyptians and their animals with hail and disease because pharaoh refused to let the Israelites leave Egypt (Exodus 9:8-11,25); and he killed Egyptian babies at the time of the Passover (Exodus 12:29-30).

            After the Exodus he ordered the Israelites to exterminate the men, women, and children of seven nations and steal their land (Deuteronomy 7:1-2); he killed King David’s baby because of David’s adultery with Bathsheba (II Samuel 12:13-18); he required the torture and murder of his own son (e.g., Romans 3:24-25); and he promised to send non-Christians to eternal torture (e.g., Revelation 21:8).

            Not a nice guy. Who in their right mind wants to follow and worship this sadistic psycho? He behaves more like Satan is expected to behave.

             
          • Bronco posted at 6:18 pm on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            Commandments? We don't need no stinking commandments!

            Besides, you got 'em but what good does that do? Why do you need them anyway if all you gotta do is believe in Jesus and you're forgiven? Dogma for dummies.

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 5:34 pm on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1563

            "So, you're admitting you're an atheist, right...???"

            I'm sorry, I didn't think there was any question about it. Yes, I DO NOT believe in any spiritual beings existence. I think ALL religions are man's way of controlling people (and getting their money). No religion is safe from my ability to not believe in the fear the spread around the planet.

            Also, the more I learn about Islam, the more I realize how dangerous religion is going to become.

            My moral compass? How about truth, morals, and ethics? All of these are pre-installed HUMAN traits. Tolerance, something Christians should try every once in a while. Muslims and Christians are like gang bangers, groups of individuals teaming up to do whatever they can to get what they want.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 5:16 pm on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "WE do not have to put anything for you to read on the front steps of PUBLIC BUILDINGS (thank you very much)."

            So, you're admitting you're an atheist, right...???

            "Atheists do NOT have COMMANDMENTS!!!!!"

            What DO you have that involves any kind of moral compass.....???

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 5:09 pm on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1563

            A couple more anti Christian points I would like to make while comparing atheists to Christians.

            1. No atheist has EVER come to my door at 7:30 am to try and convince me to become an atheist.
            2. Atheists do not put SIGNS up all over the community trying to browbeat citizens into reforming by using guilt tactics.
            3. Atheists do NOT have COMMANDMENTS!!!!!!
            4. Atheists don't have a TAX FREE business status.
            5. Atheists don't charge any fees, tithes, or even pass the hat (unless for a beer run).
            6. Atheists are not so unsure of their POV that they have to reinforce it by fellowship, prayer meetings, or group hugs (except for ladies night).
            7. Atheists NEVER dress up in a full dress suit then go out and ride a bicycle.
            8. You will never hear an atheist praying to a non existent spirit (only some reply to the voices).
            9. Atheists DO NOT want anyone to burn forever and ever, and would feel bad even if someone gets blisters.
            10. We do not have to put anything for you to read on the front steps of PUBLIC BUILDINGS (thank you very much).

            There are many more, but that's all for now.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 5:09 pm on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            Great......now we have someone channeling Jack Nicholson.......

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 4:52 pm on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1563

            Sorry about this JB, it's your turn to be derided for Miss Pelling!

            "White House: President Prays Every Day"

            White House: President Preys Every Day.

            Ha, ha, haaa

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 3:59 pm on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "The Rev. Franklin Graham waded into the discussion with his own controversial explanation of why people wrongly believe the president is a Muslim. Graham, who prayed with Obama in a session with his father, Billy Graham, earlier this year, was asked whether he has any doubts about Obama's self-avowed Christian faith. "

            "...it's obvious that the president has renounced the prophet Mohammed, and he has renounced Islam, and he has accepted Jesus Christ. That's what he says he has done. I cannot say that he hasn't. So I just have to believe that the president is what he has said," Graham continued, adding that "the Islamic world sees the president as one of theirs."

            The president himself has written that his father, Barack Obama Sr., was already a confirmed atheist by the time he was born. "

            "White House: President Prays Every Day

            "The president is, obviously, Christian. He prays every day," Burton said Thursday aboard Air Force One.

            "He communicates with his religious adviser every single day," Burton said. "There's a group of pastors that he takes counsel from on a regular basis. His faith is very important to him, but it's not something that's a topic of conversation every single day."

            "...even among the president's allies, the numbers are shifting. In March 2009, 55 percent of Democrats said the president is a Christian. That number is now 46 percent.

            African-Americans, who voted for Obama overwhelmingly, have shown a similar shift. In March 2009, 36 percent of African-Americans said they didn't know the president's religion. That number is now 46 percent. Self-described liberal Democrats who don't know what religion the president is shifted from 23 percent to 31 percent."

            "Still, the president has said his Christian faith is part of his daily life. Last year, Obama told ABC's Terry Moran on "Nightline" that he relied on his BlackBerry as one tool to keep the faith.

            "My faith and neighborhood initiatives director, Joshua DuBois, he has a devotional that he sends to me on my BlackBerry every day," Obama said. "That's how I start my morning. You know, he's got a passage, scripture, in some cases, quotes from other faiths to reflect on."

            Obama: Faith Has Deepened While in Office

            The president said during the same interview that his faith had deepened during his time in office.

            "[Before taking office], I had a habit of praying every night before I go to bed. I pray all the time now," Obama laughed. "Because I've got a lot of stuff on my plate, and I need guidance all the time."

            ~~~~~~~~~~

            So.....I'd STILL like to hear how the avowed religion haters herein square their support of Obama with his own statements/sentiments.....???

            Isn't someone insane if they "carry on a conversation with God"....???? Like, PRAYING for instance.

            Or, does he get an out because he's only really praying to his BlackBerry.....??? [I KNOW it's racist, but that's what HE said....!!!]

            Just for the record these quotes and statements come directly from that bastion of extreme right wing media, ABC News.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 3:27 pm on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "I could go on but, if you have even a shred of intellectual honesty, you'll have to acknowledge my point."

            Man....haven't you been reading the rule book....???

            It's not bigoted to play the race/bigot card when THEY do it.

            sheesh.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 3:23 pm on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "gotta go now."

            You'll no doubt find some way to blame THAT on me as well.

            Besides, why would the TRUTH make you "wince"....??? I should think you'd wear the descriptions you set out to earn PROUDLY.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 3:15 pm on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9897

            jennydoe: what a bunch of crap. who calls who bigots?
            -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Umm, could be the left. Let's see:

            (1) Disagree with Obama's policies? It's because you're a bigot.
            (2) Want immigration law enforced? You're a bigot.
            (3) Against gay marriage? You're a bigot.
            (4) Don't want a mosque built near Ground Zero? You're a bigot.
            (5) Want to end affirmative action? You're a bigot?
            (6) Want the Black Panthers prosecuted for voter intimidation? Yep, you're a bigot.
            (7) Arrest a black professor? Sure thing - you're a bigot.
            (8) The Tea Party? Well, of course, they're all bigots!
            (9) If you think there's a connection between Islam and 9/11, you're a bigot.
            (10) If you don't believe that racism is nearly as present in this country as it was 100 years ago, you're clearly a bigot.

            I could go on but, if you have even a shred of intellectual honesty, you'll have to acknowledge my point.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 3:11 pm on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            you have yet to call me anything that could make me wince. gotta go now.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 2:57 pm on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "how can you pretend that acts of violence by Christians are not terrorizing?"

            Heck, all one has to do is disagree with your position and it reduces you to slobbering mass of incoherent accusations and recriminations.

            Please give us ten examples of acts promoted by Jesus that are "terrorist"......??? As you've pointed out, just saying you're a Christian such as Obama does is NOT any kind of proof that you in fact are. As a matter of fact, terrorist acts are decidedly NON-Christian. You will not find a single act of terrorism that is/was condoned by Jesus.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 2:47 pm on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "must call jenny something vile"

            Not really, just passing observations.

            Look, you go out of your way to insult people and rile them up and so when someone notices that, they're "bigoted"....??? YOU are the one who derides EVERYONE who is religious......and, that IS bigoted.

            big·ot
            Pronunciation: \ˈbi-gət\
            Function: noun
            Etymology: French, hypocrite, bigot
            Date: 1660

            : a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

            Are you attempting to say you're NOT intolerant of people who believe in God BECAUSE they believe in God....??? I must have missed your great outpouring of love and understanding.

            As HTC noted earlier, there's really no reason to get "worked up" over your inability to face reality, so I just point out the fallacies you cling to and describe you as I see you.....since THAT is what you continue to portray here.

            Like Harry S said, "I never gave them hell. I just told the truth and they THOUGHT it was hell."

            I don't see what the big fuss is about anyway....if you're all ticked off because I said you were a guttersnipe, I should think you'd be PROUD of that assessment of your actions.....why ELSE would you incessantly reaffirm it...????

            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~

            "must prove my proof is better than their PROOF"

            Now, THAT's a hoot. WHEN have you EVER provided anything that even vaguely resembles a "proof"....???

            No, you just constantly deny that the truth exists.

            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~

            "would not recognize the liberals on the street.but I know I HATE them"

            TRUE...!!! I don't drive down the street judging people's socio-political stance on the basis of their appearance..... Do YOU....??? Rather, I know liberals disgust me because of the many efforts they make to thrust their disgusting personae in my face. Liberals act as if it's everyone's duty to lay down and take it when they rant and are "offended" when they don't. However, I have no such self-destructive drive.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 2:39 pm on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            Hey! Here is some positive news.....

            Palliative Care Extends Life, Study Finds
            By DONALD G. McNEIL Jr.
            Published: August 18, 2010
            In a study that sheds new light on the effects of end-of-life care, doctors have found that patients with terminal lung cancer who began receiving palliative care immediately upon diagnosis not only were happier, more mobile and in less pain as the end neared — but they also lived nearly three months longer......
            Palliative care typically begins with a long conversation about what the patient with a terminal diagnosis wants out of his remaining life. It includes the options any oncologist addresses: surgery, chemotherapy and radiation and their side effects. But it also includes how much suffering a patient wishes to bear, effects on the family, and legal, insurance and religious issues. Teams focus on controlling pain, nausea, swelling, shortness of breath and other side effects; they also address patients’ worries and make sure they have help with making meals, dressing and bathing when not hospitalized.

            Hospice care is intensive palliative care including home nursing, but insurers and Medicare usually cover it only if the patient abandons medical treatment and two doctors certify that death is less than six months away.

            During the debate over President Obama’s 2009 health care bill, provisions to have Medicare and insurers pay for optional consultations with doctors on palliative and hospice care led to rumors, spread by talk-show hosts like Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck and by the former vice-presidential candidate Sarah Palin, that the bill empowered “death panels” that would “euthanize” elderly Americans. ..................

            http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/19/health/19care.html?_r=1

             
          • jennydoe posted at 2:26 pm on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            how can you pretend that acts of violence by Christians are not terrorizing?

             
          • Bronco posted at 2:13 pm on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            I'm not buying it. You two have gone insane.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 2:09 pm on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            what a bunch of crap.
            who calls who bigots?
            well HTC does.the left. bigots.plain.simple.you two really do make a more compatible couple than Bronco and you do JB.I congratulate you on your union.......must turn Bronco into a communist by skewing words.must pretend to be rightous.not religious.upright.honest.must do more meds.must call jenny something vile.must spread more HATRED.must prove my proof is better than their PROOF,there is no truth like my TRUTH!!!would not recognize the liberals on the street.but I know I HATE them.they are scum.they are bigots.one just dumped me.all is good. new union.bigots,bigots,bigots.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 2:04 pm on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            I guess I missed it when I went back to find it, so here it is, AGAIN:

            About the List of Terrorist Attacks

            This list of terrorist attacks committed by Muslims since 9/11/01 (a rate of about four or five a day) is incomplete because only a small percentage of attacks are picked up by international news sources, even those resulting in multiple loss of life.

            These are not incidents involving nominal Muslims killing for money or personal pride. This is not ordinary crime. We include incidents of deadly violence that can reasonably be determined to have been committed out of religious duty - as interpreted by the perpetrator.

            http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

            Latest Offerings from the Religion of Peace

            "He who fights that Islam should be superior fights in Allah's cause" -- Muhammad, prophet of Islam

            2010.08.19 (Xinjiang, China) - An explosives-laden vehicle is plowed into a crowd and detonated, leaving seven dead.
            2010.08.19 (Nangarhar, Afghanistan) - Two civilians are killed when the Taliban blow up a fuel truck.
            2010.08.18 (Gaza, Pal. Auth.) - A 62-year-old woman is murdered outside her own home by Islamic fundamentalists.
            2010.08.18 (Kandahar, Afghanistan) - A suicide bomber takes out an Afghan cop.
            2010.08.18 (Kulgam, India) - Two civilians grazing cattle are abducted and murdered by Religion of Peace radicals.
            2010.08.18 (Sopore, India) - Islamic militants attack a lawmaker's home, killing a guard.

            ~~~~~~~~~~~~

            Sura3 3:64: “Verily Allah has cursed the Unbelievers (whom he defined as Christians in the 5th surah “Believers, take not Jews and Christians for your friends.) and has prepared for them a Blazing Fire to dwell in forever. No protector will they find, nor savior. That Day their faces will be turned upside down in the Fire. They will say: ‘Woe to us! We should have obeyed Allah and obeyed the Messenger!’ ‘Our Lord! Give them double torment and curse them with a very great Curse!’”

            What does The true God say about cursing his people? Read Gen.12:3

            Sura72:15 “The disbelievers are the firewood of hell.”

            “What, do you desire to guide him whom God has led astray? Whom God leads astray, thou wilt not find for him a way [of salvation]. They wish that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as a friend or helper. (Arberry, Interpreted p.113)

            Hadith, the body of traditions relating to Mohammed and now supplemental to the Koran: He (Abu Hurayah) reported the messenger of Allah as saying: The last hour will not come before the Muslims fight the Jews and the Muslims kill them, so that Jews will hide behind stones and trees and the Stone and the tree will say, O Muslim, O servant of God! There is a Jew behind me; come and kill him. The only exception will be the box-thorn for it is one of the trees of the Jews. (Sahih of Muslim, quoted by Israel and the Prophecies of Al Quran by Ali Akbar, Bismi Publishers 1992, p.44)

            Of the Unbelievers: Sura 4:89 “seize them and slay them wherever you find them: and in any case take no friends or helpers from their ranks.”

            Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush. (Sura 9:5)

            4:101 “When ye travel through the earth, there is no blame on you if ye shorten your prayers, for fear the Unbelievers May attack you: For the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies.” 4:102 “For the Unbelievers, Allah has prepared a humiliating punishment.”

            8:19 “(O Unbelievers!) if ye prayed for victory and judgment, now hath the judgment come to you: if ye desist (from wrong), it will be best for you: if ye return (to the attack), so shall We. Not the least good will your forces be to you even if they (were multiplied: for verily God is with those who believe!”
            8:59-60 “Let not the unbelievers think that they can get the better (of the godly): they will never frustrate (them). Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of God and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom God doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of God, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly.”

            Another translation makes this plain - “The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them.”

            9.123 “O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you”

            9.73 “O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination.”

            Surah 2, Contains the subject of war numerous times (Jihad). It is approved to be the solution to aggression when necessary. The following paragraphs are out of the Qur’an. (The Qur’an was written in Arabic, but translated in English by those who are Muslim and speak Arabic.)

            “War is prescribed to you: but from this ye are averse.” (Sura 2:212).

            “To participate in Jihad in Allah's cause” (Al Bukhari vol. 1:25)

            Sura 2:187-189 “And kill them wherever ye shall find them, and eject them from whatever place they have ejected you; for civil discord is worse than carnage: yet attack them not at the sacred Mosque, unless they attack you therein; but if they attack you, slay them. Such the reward of the infidels...Fight therefore against them until there be no more civil discord, and the only worship be that of God: but if they desist, then let there be no hostility, save against the wicked.”

            2:190-292 “Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits, for Allah does not love transgressors. And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out: For tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; But fight them not at the sacred Mosque unless they first fight you there; But if they fight you, Slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.”

            2:193 “And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and let there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression.”

            2:216 “Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But God knoweth, and ye know not. 217 They ask thee concerning fighting in the Prohibited Month. Say: “Fighting therein is a grave (offense); but graver is it in the sight of God to prevent access to the path of God, to deny Him, to prevent access to the Sacred Mosque, and drive out its members. Tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter. Nor will they cease fighting you until they turn you back from your faith if they can. And if any of you turn back from their faith and die in unbelief, their works will bear no fruit in this life and in the Hereafter; they will be Companions of the Fire and will abide therein.”

            2:244 “Then fight in the cause of God, and know that God heareth and knoweth all things. 245 Who is he that will loan to God a beautiful loan, which God will double unto his credit and multiply many times? It is God that giveth (you) want or plenty, and to Him shall be your return.”

            ~~~~~~~~~~~~

            If it "offends" you, tell it to the muslims.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 1:57 pm on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9897

            Bronco: I suppose there's some arcane explanation why these two apparently opposing statements actually don't oppose. Having been referred to as a leftit, leftist, leftie, liberal, for months and months I kinda think my 'assumption' is rather spot on.
            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            I sure don't see your name mentioned there by me, but if you feel it applies to you, I'll go with that.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 1:46 pm on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            Bronco, nobody is trying to persuade you that you shouldn't hate whoever or however you deem it necessary to. Keep it up. You've spent YEARS perfecting your rage.

            However, attempting to engage you in rational conversation about it is an exercise in futility. Snatch the football away from someone ELSE, Lucy.

            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~

            A. There's NOTHING "arcane" in this statement: "Ever notice, JB, how quick the left is to accuse others of bigotry while they're so blind to their own? It's almost always the left that is labelling someone a bigot or playing the race card. They see bigotry everywhere because they are bigots."

            B. This statement stands on its own and is TRUE: "How interesting that neither I nor JB called you a bigot but you immediately assumed that we had."

            C. Consider your vapid "questions" on your own.

             
          • Bronco posted at 12:48 pm on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            At 9:42am, Fri, HTC posted: "Ever notice, JB, how quick the left is to accuse others of bigotry while they're so blind to their own? It's almost always the left that is labelling someone a bigot or playing the race card. They see bigotry everywhere because they are bigots."


            At 12:22pm on Fri HTC posted: "How interesting that neither I nor JB called you a bigot but you immediately assumed that we had."

            I suppose there's some arcane explanation why these two apparently opposing statements actually don't oppose. Having been referred to as a leftit, leftist, leftie, liberal, for months and months I kinda think my 'assumption' is rather spot on.

            JB, is it OK for Christians to oppose Muslims but not OK for Muslims to oppose Christians?

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 12:28 pm on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "I couldn't agree with you more on this point. For most of my life I've felt that I was voting for the "lesser of two evils." Most of my friends and family, GOP and Dems alike, have felt that same way.

            It seems that all too often the people most qualified for that job don't want to have anything to do with politics and all of its ugliness. I don't know if it will ever be possible to change that."

            As far as I can tell, voting in the PRIMARIES is our only line of defense other than lending a hand to those we see as good candidates as we can.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 12:22 pm on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9897

            Bronco: Now as far as being called a bigot first thing this morning....
            -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            How interesting that neither I nor JB called you a bigot but you immediately assumed that we had.

            A guilty conscience will indict one everytime.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 12:18 pm on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9897

            Rebel Rouser: We (all voters) don't always get to vote for the best person for the job, but only for the ones put before us at the polls.
            -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Hear, hear, RR!

            I couldn't agree with you more on this point. For most of my life I've felt that I was voting for the "lesser of two evils." Most of my friends and family, GOP and Dems alike, have felt that same way.

            It seems that all too often the people most qualified for that job don't want to have anything to do with politics and all of its ugliness. I don't know if it will ever be possible to change that.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 12:12 pm on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9897

            jennydoe: I know you like war and all....
            ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            What a crock of s-h-i-t. I don't like war at all and I wish it were never necessary; however, I recognize that there are always those who will make it necessary and that one must always be prepared for it.

            I used to wonder why it was that liberals always assumed that if you ever supported a war effort or a strong national defense, you must like war. I finally figured out that part of the liberal's "If it feels good, do it" mindset was if it didn't feel good or wasn't enjoyable, they didn't want to do it. They've always shied away from anything unpleasant or difficult and lack the mental and emotional stamina to deal with life's harsher realities.

            Fortunately for them, there are lots of men and women with the guts they lack who will do everything in their power to ensure that we all remain free and that, for liberals, that will mean their continued freedom to remain cowards.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 12:12 pm on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            http://missoulian.com/news/opinion/mailbag/article_18a7fee0-ab10-11df-aa8e-001cc4c002e0.html


            Liberals fight Christianity but support Muslims

            ONLINE ONLY letter to the editor missoulian.com | Posted: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 3:32 pm | (

            “Keep God out of our schools!” “We demand separation of Church and State now!” “Don’t teach my child religion in school or we’ll sue!”

            I’m sure every person has heard this rabid lunacy from the misguided left throughout the decades. Every time a student wears a piece of clothing or whispers one word that might indicate a belief in either Christianity of Judaism, every liberal and liberal organization, especially the ACLU, becomes unglued and launches a war against that student, usually a small child. They call it being “progressive.” Liberals will stop at nothing to make sure you know that religion is not welcome in America. Funny how liberals only support the Constitution when it suits them, isn’t it?

            I was curious, then, as to the reason why the ACLU, which constantly reminds us how they are working so very hard to keep that “evil” Christian and Jewish influence from entering our public schools, isn’t standing up for the Constitution now when a Fordson High School in Dearborn, Michigan is making special, on-campus concessions for the Islamic members of that school’s football team? You see, the Muslim players get to practice at special times because of Ramadan; the Muslim players get to pray on school grounds; the Muslim players get to wear clothing that shows images of their religion on school grounds – the list goes on. Here’s the story: http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/highschool/news/story?id5467167.

            Now, this story isn’t going to be covered by the American liberally biased media because it would, in fact, prove undeniably the hypocrisy of the left and the non-objective nature of our American media.

            Of course, this isn’t the only example of double standards when it comes to Islam here in America, thanks to the Democratic Party and liberalism. In New York, there exists a taxpayer funded public school named the Khalil Gibram International Academy. This public school teaches one thing, and one thing only: Islam. Now, where has the ACLU and the rest of the loony left been since this school opened up more than three years ago? Why are the liberals and Democrats so obsessed with pleasing Islam?

            Daniel Shevlin, Great Falls

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 12:11 pm on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1563

            "Here we go again - another comet cult.

            When doth the comet arrive, oh Lard?".............Well apparently you didn't know that the first group were whisked away years ago (sheeesh), so do you need to know when the next group will be allowed into the almighty comet's tail? Hail Hale Bop! I will be accepting reservations (limited seats) in the near future so get your pudding cup reserved as soon as possible.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 11:41 am on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "Gee, I derided religion. Did I deride people of faith? "

            So far only the ones who are not part of YOUR atheist/communist faith.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 11:38 am on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "Final tally: HTC: 5 JB: 6

            A close one but JB wins the bigot contest, with HTC a close second."

            A fanciful and totally fictitious set of accusations for which you have absolutely NO proof.

             
          • Bronco posted at 11:31 am on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            JB: "...join in gleefully with Bronco and Jenny in their derision of people of faith..."

            Gee, I derided religion. Did I deride people of faith?

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 11:29 am on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "JB, I, for one, certainly hope our president remains a closet Christian Muslim or a closet Muslim Christian. I would be uncomfortable thinking he allows religion of any mutation to influence his decisions regarding the stewardship of our country"

            AHEM:

            "There are a whole lot of religious people in America, including the majority of Democrats. When we abandon the field of religious discourse—when we ignore the debate about what it means to be a good Christian or Muslim or Jew; when we discuss religion only in the negative sense of where or how it should not be practiced, rather than in the positive sense of what it tells us about our obligations toward one another; when we shy away from religious venues and religious broadcasts because we assume that we will be unwelcome—others will fill the vacuum. And those who do are likely to be those with the most insular views of faith, or who cynically use religion to justify partisan ends." -- BARACK OBAMA, Audacity of Hope

            "America and Islam are not exclusive and need not be in competition. Instead, they overlap, and share common principles of justice and progress, tolerance and the dignity of all human beings." -- Barack Obama

            "I consider it part of my responsibility as President of the United States to fight against negative stereotypes of Islam wherever they appear." -- Barack Obama

            "My parents shared not only an improbable love, they shared an abiding faith in the possibilities of this nation. They would give me an African name, Barack, or blessed, believing that in a tolerant America your name is no barrier to success." -- Barack Obama [I didn't know that about "blessed" before today]

            "One of the great strengths of the United States is... we have a very large Christian population" -- Barack Obama

            "Tonight, we gather to affirm the greatness of our nation - not because of the height of our skyscrapers, or the power of our military, or the size of our economy. Our pride is based on a very simple premise, summed up in a declaration made over two hundred years ago." -- Barack Obama [The Declaration is without a doubt a VERY religious statement]

            "We worship an awesome God in the Blue States" -- Barack Obama

            ""I've been to the same church _ the same Christian church _ for almost 20 years," Obama said, stressing the word Christian and drawing cheers from the faithful in reply. "I was sworn in with my hand on the family Bible." -- Barack Obama

            On his campaign: One piece features photos of Obama praying with the words "COMMITTED CHRISTIAN" in large letters across the middle. It says Obama will be a president "guided by his Christian faith" and includes a quote from him saying, "I believe in the power of prayer."

            A second piece, which like the first doesn't mention the Muslim rumor, includes photos of Obama with his family and a caption that says they are active members of Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago. It explains how as a young man Obama "felt a beckoning of the spirit and accepted Jesus Christ into his life."

            ~~~~~~~~~~~~

            Obama quickly made his personal beliefs central to his presidential campaign. He peppered his speeches with references to his faith and Scripture. In a speech he gave to the United Church of Christ last June, he describing how — as a 20-something, secular community organizer — he knelt before the cross and became a Christian.

            "I felt I heard God's spirit beckoning me," Obama said, noting he did not "fall out" of the pew. Rather, it was a cerebral decision. "I submitted myself to His will and dedicated myself to discovering His truth and carrying out His works."

            Isn't that pretty much like having a "discussion with God"....???

            ~~~~~~~~~~~~

            In speech after speech, Obama made a case for the social gospel.

            "My faith teaches me," he told the convention the United Church of Christ, "that I can sit in church and pray all I want, but I won't be fulfilling God's will unless I go out and do the Lord's work."

            As a black politician, Obama echoes some of Martin Luther King's rhetoric, if not his preacher's style. He uses code words from King like the "beloved country," and borrows some lines, such as "the arc of the universe bends towards justice." Obama quotes black spirituals. He also includes Biblical allusions to David and Goliath, Daniel and the lions, and of course, to the Promised Land

            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
            " Sometimes this is a difficult road being in politics. Sometimes you can become fearful, sometimes you can become vain, sometimes you can seek power just for power’s sake instead of because you want to do service to God. I just want all of you to pray that I can be an instrument of God in the same way that Pastor Ron and all of you are instruments of God . . . We’re going to keep on praising together. I am confident that we can create a Kingdom right here on Earth." -- Barack Obama -- The remarks were made at the Redemption World Outreach Center in South Carolina, an evangelical church.

            "It is my obligation, not only as an elected official in a pluralistic society but also as a Christian, to remain open to the possibility that my unwillingness to support gay marriage is misguided, just as I cannot claim infallibility in my support of abortion rights. I must admit that I may have been infected with society's prejudices and predilections and attributed them to God; that Jesus' call to love one another might demand a different conclusion; and that in years hence I might be seen on the wrong side of history." -- Barack Obama

            ~~~~~~~~~~~~

            Inaugural Speech:

            "We remain a young nation, but in the words of Scripture, the time has come to set aside childish things. The time has come to reaffirm our enduring spirit; to choose our better history; to carry forward that precious gift, that noble idea, passed on from generation to generation: the God-given promise that all are equal, all are free, and all deserve a chance to pursue their full measure of happiness."

            Oh...my...quoting the dreaded BIBLE....!!!! Run for your life.

            Fire away, Cadre.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 11:21 am on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            Couldn't the Republican Party find one competent female with adult children to run for Vice President with McCain? I realize his advisors probably didn't want a "mature" woman, as the Democrats keep harping on his age. But really, what kind of role model is a woman whose fifth child was recently born with a serious issue, Down Syndrome, and then goes back to the job of Governor within days of the birth?
            - Dr. Laura

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 10:58 am on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "I personally would vote for a person without religious ties and I actually would prefer that over a person with religion"

            Please list your favorite "non religious" candidates that you are disappointed in because they didn't get elected....???

            "Well, I don't think I am one of the cadres you are referring to, I sometimes lean heavily towards leftits, (but not always) so I will state my opinion."

            But, you DID have a hissy fit when people dared to mention "religion" on YOUR forum, no....???

            And, you DID join in gleefully with Bronco and Jenny in their derision of people of faith, did you not....???

            Since it's actually the topic of discussion, I then must gather that you have serious misgivings because the Founders were largely very religious people and mostly Christians to boot.

            Where IS this atheist nirvana you seek....??? Maybe I missed the best of all possible worlds, so please point it out.

            It does, however, leave us with the FACT that O'Blamer will lie about ANYTHING to get votes, whether those ploys are rational or not. It appears you think he is NOT a Christian.

            "I have been disgusted hearing about some past President's reverend, Pastor, Clergy, etc., etc. going to the Whitehouse to "pray" with the President before he makes an important decision, urrp, yuck"

            I would have to heartily agree, ESPECIALLY when it comes to Reverend Jeremiah Wright. I still think it's comical that the Left clings to the idiotic stance that O'Blamer doesn't agree with him despite the fact that he never once raised an objection to Wright's hate spewing messages rained down on his psyche for the better part of two decades and in fact made large donations to that "church".

            To O'Blamer's credit, he DID throw Wright under the bus in the most magnanimous way.

            So, did you or did you NOT "suck it up" and vote for O'Blamer anyway, despite his obvious charades regarding "religion"......????

             
          • Bronco posted at 10:54 am on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            JB, I, for one, certainly hope our president remains a closet Christian Muslim or a closet Muslim Christian. I would be uncomfortable thinking he allows religion of any mutation to influence his decisions regarding the stewardship of our country. That would be totally irresponsible and unforgivable.

            Now as far as being called a bigot first thing this morning by someone who defends notions and ideas but claims to have few of the former and consistently proves he has none of the latter, I take umbrage. (No, JB, that doesn't mean I act out my anger with a parasol)

            HTC, when you lump everyone who disagrees with you together and call them a name...well, Mr. Hypocrite, that is purt-near the Webster's definition of "BIGOT."

            bigot: chauvinist, partisan, sectarian; racist, sexist, homophobe, dogmatist, jingoist.

            Let's peek at these synonyms and see if HTC and/or JB fits the description...

            chauvinist
            a person displaying aggressive or exaggerated patriotism.
            • a person displaying excessive or prejudiced loyalty or support for a particular cause, group, or gender

            HTC: 1 JB: 1

            partisan
            1 a strong supporter of a party, cause, or person.

            HTC: 2 JB: 2

            sectarian
            denoting or concerning a sect or sects
            • (of an action) carried out on the grounds of membership of a sect, denomination, or other group
            • rigidly following the doctrines of a sect or other group

            HTC: 3 JB: 3

            (I'll leave racism out. Keep that race-card for another hand.)(And so with homophobe. For obvious reasons)

            dogmatism
            the tendency to lay down principles as incontrovertibly true, without consideration of evidence or the opinions of others

            You each get 2 on this one! HTC: 5 JB: 5

            jingoism
            extreme patriotism, esp. in the form of aggressive or warlike foreign policy.

            HTC is all wind and flurries, no real threat. But JB...6.

            Final tally: HTC: 5 JB: 6

            A close one but JB wins the bigot contest, with HTC a close second.


             
          • JBSTONE posted at 10:37 am on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "I know you like war and all, so I suppose there are justifications for all the lies told to us to go bomb Iraq. I can't help that.
            I don't like liars of any sort, personally."

            Well, then.....be careful not to look in the mirror.

            I have NEVER, nor will I EVER state that I "like war". I doubt that you find any Veterans who do.

            It's no WONDER you would think a plate of pasta is smarter than you....at least THAT's the truth.

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 10:37 am on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1563

            "I see the Cadre prefers NOT to answer the questions "posted at 10:26 pm on Thu, Aug 19, 2010."

            Well, I don't think I am one of the cadres you are referring to, I sometimes lean heavily towards leftits, (but not always) so I will state my opinion.
            Because of the conservative/Christian right, no one could possible be elected in this country (as President) without having religion. We (all voters) don't always get to vote for the best person for the job, but only for the ones put before us at the polls. When you make your choice it can be for any reason, and usually that persons religion is not the main reason for most voters. It is very likely many Presidents of the past didn't have a strong religious tie (to one church) not wanting to offend other religious groups, as just being a Christian meets or satisfies most Christian voters approval. I personally would vote for a person without religious ties and I actually would prefer that over a person with religion, but most of the time I have had to overlook a candidates religion, because they all seem to have one. I don't think Obama and his family are heavily religious and I think they are role playing for the appearance of being "gGod fearing Christians" to be accepted by the religious crowd. I have been disgusted hearing about some past President's reverend, Pastor, Clergy, etc., etc. going to the Whitehouse to "pray" with the President before he makes an important decision, urrp, yuck. I get very fearful when I hear anyone talking as if they have had a conversation with gGod let alone the President of the United States. So, even though I feel like I have moved into your trap, I think Obama has and is doing what many other Presidents have done, placate the populace regarding religion. I also have to go by what he actually said, that he is a Christian.

            Let er rip!!

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 10:33 am on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "Well gee, I think I will tweet Dr. Laura and see how she feels about this accusation."

            I have just two things to say in reply to you and Al NotSoSharpton regarding your stance on that issue:

            1. Tawana Brawley.

            2. Here's what Dr. Laura actually said:

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_MGntFSAuo

             
          • jennydoe posted at 10:20 am on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            HTC - Well since JB doesn't beleive me about my true sister, BJ, then in his injured egoed mind I am a liar.
            I don't think he will ever trust me again. (he never did, so really no lost)
            I haven't read anything on Media Matters for weeks, by the way. Nor Fox, as everytime I link to Fox, weird things happen to my computer, freezes, delays...I always have to re-boot. I think the site creates a lot of spam, and that doesn't include what they are spewing.
            I know you like war and all, so I suppose there are justifications for all the lies told to us to go bomb Iraq. I can't help that.
            I don't like liars of any sort, personally.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 10:14 am on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            Yeah, let's just tell ALL our enemies precisely what we intend to do in their regard and reveal the workings of present covert activities and those friendly to our cause so that they can more effectively dodge them and continue on in their murderous jihad, etc. with full knowledge of our plans, troop locations and strengths, THAT oughta even out the playing field....!!!

            What an idiot.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 10:11 am on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            HTC - Ever notice, JB, how quick the left is to accuse others of bigotry while they're so blind to their own? It's almost always the left that is labelling someone a bigot or playing the race card. They see bigotry everywhere because they are bigots.
            ---------
            Well gee, I think I will tweet Dr. Laura and see how she feels about this accusation.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 10:03 am on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9897

            jennydoe: 'sometimes the truth is so precious it must be accompanied by a bodyguard of lies.’
            —Donald Rumsfeld, US Department of Defense Briefing, September 25, 2001

            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Well, yes, when it comes to National Security, that is definitely true. All governments play that game.

            That doesn't mean that Rumsfeld is a liar. If you think it does, then if you've ever lied, and we all have, then you are also an habitual liar, never to be trusted.

            It seems, however, that you only have a problem with conservatives lying since you keep reading and quoting those thoroughly discredited liberal blog sites like Media Matters.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 10:02 am on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "Ever notice, JB, how quick the left is to accuse others of bigotry while they're so blind to their own? It's almost always the left that is labelling someone a bigot or playing the race card. They see bigotry everywhere because they are bigots."

            Yes, it happens on THIS site daily.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 9:42 am on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9897

            JB: During the Depression, several of my uncles literally had to risk their lives for beatings they received in attempting to enter work sites in Pennsylvania in order to feed their younger siblings. My family had garbage deposited in their vestibule and threatened by the local thugs. My Grandfather, in whose house these things happened was one of the kindest, wisest people you could ever know, loved by many. He never returned the hatred nor did he teach his children to.
            ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Ever notice, JB, how quick the left is to accuse others of bigotry while they're so blind to their own? It's almost always the left that is labelling someone a bigot or playing the race card. They see bigotry everywhere because they are bigots.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 9:42 am on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            'sometimes the truth is so precious it must be accompanied by a bodyguard of lies.’
            —Donald Rumsfeld, US Department of Defense Briefing, September 25, 2001

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 9:37 am on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            Former Pakistani Intel Chief Fears World War Three Is Imminent
            Tuesday, Aug 17th, 2010

            - Destabilization exercise known as ‘war on terror’ could lead to World War Three

            - All of Islamic world could be provocateured into “international jihad”

            - 9/11 was a fabricated pretext to dominate the middle east and beyond

            - Intelligence claims exposed by Wikileaks are “diabolical nonsense”

            more - http://www.infowars.com/former-pakistani-intel-chief-fears-world-war-three-is-imminent/

            ~~~~~~~~~~~~

            Aaaaahhh.....those pesky muslims.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 9:17 am on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "Since you are neither of the 3, as you have mentioned, but came from the seed of Polish immigrants during the age of nationalism, does that make you a Polish Joke?"

            No, it makes me a Second Generation American. Several of my Great Uncles signed up for WWI the day they attained citizenship. There are family members who have fought in every war since.

            I'm sure you'll be PROUD to find out what a sterling concept you are carrying forward and for whom:

            Polish joke
            From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

            Polish jokes, also called Polack jokes – (in reference to an ethnic slur) – belong to the category of what author Ted Cohen calls "conditional jokes", which means that their understanding requires knowledge of "what a Polish joke is". Conditional jokes depend upon the audience's affective preference, or their likes and dislikes. Although these ethnic jokes might be understood by many, their success depends entirely upon the negative disposition of the listener. Polish jokes are hate through humor jokes against Polish people.[1]
            Polish jokes in Germany

            During the political transformations of the Soviet controlled Eastern block in the 1980s, the traditional German anti-Polish sentiment dating back to the policies of Otto von Bismarck and the German Empire was again blatantly exploited in GDR against Solidarność (Solidarity). This tactic had become especially apparent in the "rejuvenation of 'Polish jokes', some of which reminded listeners of the spread of such jokes under the Nazis".[2]

            Polish jokes in United States

            Polish immigration from the dismantled Polish state was high due to racial discrimination and unemployment on traditionally Polish lands.[3] There's a debate whether these early "Polish jokes" brought to states like Wisconsin by German immigrants were directly related to the wave of American jokes of the early 1960s.[4]

            Polish jokes were again strengthened by German immigrant displaced persons fleeing war-torn Europe in the late 1940s. These jokes were fueled by ethnic slurs disseminated by German National Socialist propaganda, which attempted to justify the Nazi murder by presenting Poles as "dreck", dirty and inferior.[5] It is also possible that some of the earliest American Polack jokes from Germany, were originally told before World War II in disputed border-regions such as Silesia.[4]

            For decades, Polish Americans like other minority groups have been the subject of derogatory jokes originating in the malicious stereotype developed in the U.S. before the return of Poland's independence, at the time when Polish immigrants came to America in considerable numbers fleeing mass persecution at home. They were taking the only jobs available to them, usually requiring physical labor.

            Polish American

            The same ethnic and job-related stereotypes persisted even as Polish Americans joined the middle class in mid 20th century. "These degrading stereotypes were far from harmless. The constant derision, often publicly disseminated through the mass media, caused serious identity crises, feeling of inadequacy, and low self-esteem for many Polish Americans." During the Cold War era, despite the sympathy in the US for Poland being subjected to communism, negative stereotypes about Polish Americans endured.[8]

            Since the late 1960s, Polish American organizations made continuous effort to challenge the negative stereotyping of the Polish people once prevalent in American media. 1960's & 70's TV shows like All in the Family, The Tonight Show, and Laugh-In often used jokes demeaning to Poles.[8] The "Polish jokes" heard in the 1970s were particularly offensive, so much so that the Polish Ministry of Foreign Affairs approached the U.S. State Department about that, however unsuccessfully. Gradually, Americans have developed a more positive image of their Polish neighbors in the following decades.

            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

            I like how you display the roots of your hatred.

            My family has been the victim of such discrimination here. During the Depression, several of my uncles literally had to risk their lives for beatings they received in attempting to enter work sites in Pennsylvania in order to feed their younger siblings. My family had garbage deposited in their vestibule and threatened by the local thugs. My Grandfather, in whose house these things happened was one of the kindest, wisest people you could ever know, loved by many. He never returned the hatred nor did he teach his children to. My family has produced many professionals and successful businessmen. Of the many highly decorated survivors of WWII [my Grandmother had FIVE sons in WWII simultaneously] one was shot down flying B-25's out of Britain and escaped, another led several escapes from fascist POW camps after being captured in Northern Africa, fighting Rommel and serving as a medic, the youngest of my Uncles served 22 years in the Air Force special forces through Korea and Viet Nam, and a Cousin retired from the Navy Medical service as a Rear Admiral...and, there are dozens more.

            Too bad your hero Adolph's big Polish Joke never made it to the punch line as he attempted to eradicate ALL the Poles. But, you go ahead and stick to your hateful derogatory "comedy" and I'll continue on with the traditions I was taught and which in many ways are the solid foundation upon this great country was created.

            After all, it's all you've GOT.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 9:06 am on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9897

            Claus: Our society is revolutionary, and those on the Left are its counter-revolutionaries! Wake up, America! There is nothing revolutionary about these progressives. They represent a return to paternalism and serfdom.
            ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Right on!

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 9:03 am on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9897

            Rob123: The majority of Theologians look at it as an expecially ugly, political time with no real redeeming value outside of a lesson on what NOT to do.
            ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            I guess those "Theologians" don't mind what happened before the Crusades such as the Caliphate ordering the destruction of the Holy Sepulchre and all Christian establishments in Jerusalem in 1009. They must also have no problem with the persecution and execution of Christians which took place for decades afterwards and the slaughtering of Christian pilgrims by the Mohammedans.

            Once you've overlooked that, it's easy to overlook the Seljukian Turks capturing Jerusalem in 1070, killing and imprisoning many Christians, including the Greek emperor Diogenes. The Turks then spread througout the Middle East and Asia and, by 1092, not one of the great Asian metropolitan areas remained in the hands of the Christians. To make it easy to ignore this, too, we'll assume there wasn't any real fighting and it was a peaceful handoff; hence, thousands of Christians didn't actually die during this period.

            And let's also overlook the Islamic Moors invading and taking over Christian Hispania (what is now Portugal and Spain) in 711 AD and their attempt to invade the rest of Europe which ultimately failed when they were stopped in the Pyrenees Mountains by the forces of the Frank Charles Martel at the Battle of Poitiers in 732 AD. These Moors killed thousands of Christians and destroyed their churches.

            But, it's much more convenient to believe that the Muslims were living in peace, minding their own business, when suddenly out of nowhere these vicious knights descended upon them, brutally murdering them and destroying their shrines.

             
          • Claus posted at 8:28 am on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            Claus Posts: 394

            As long as the federal government continues to grow the power of the unelected elite grows, and the revolutionary nature of our society is diminished. In no other society has the individual been trusted with so much freedom and been given so much opportunity and responsibility. Our society is revolutionary, and those on the Left are its counter-revolutionaries! Wake up, America! There is nothing revolutionary about these progressives. They represent a return to paternalism and serfdom.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:27 am on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9897

            Rob123: 62% of American Muslims have a College Degree, while 42% of the overall U.S. population does.
            ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Not sure where you got your numbers but the government's own numbers show 24% for all Muslims and 25% for the general U.S. population.

            Source:

            http://www.america.gov/st/peopleplace-english/2008/December/20081222090246jmnamdeirf0.4547083.html

            There's quite a bit of information about Muslim Americans on that site. Check it out.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 8:21 am on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "I went to a conservative Catholic College and took Western Civilization classes from Holy Cross Priests"

            I see. It appears that none of it sunk in.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 8:17 am on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            I see the Cadre prefers NOT to answer the questions "posted at 10:26 pm on Thu, Aug 19, 2010."

            The responses so far are about psychotic ramblings, Iraq, Pat Tillman, and the Crusades. If THAT's not "changing the subject to avoid facing reality"...I don't know what IS.

            But, isn't how we got to their conundrum in the FIRST place....????

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:09 am on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9897

            jennydoe: HTC -Donald Rumsfeld refuses to comment on whether he has shares in the manufacturers of Tamiflu

            HTC: Why should he? He's not a public servant anymore so it's none of your frickin' business!

            jennydoe: ...he has never shown honesty.?

            HTC: Because you say so?

             
          • Rob123 posted at 2:26 am on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            Rob123 Posts: 6595

            JB: Per your afternoon cut and paste, which bugged me then and still bugs me: "As Daniel Hoffman acknowledges, the Crusades ultimately fell seriously short of accepted Christian standards for a just war, despite the fact that they were undertaken for largely noble reasons." What an asinine statement......I mean, I went to a conservative Catholic College and took Western Civilization classes from Holy Cross Priests who couldn't justify the Crusades. A few old Right Wing Hawks tried, but fell way short. The majority of Theologians look at it as an expecially ugly, political time with no real redeeming value outside of a lesson on what NOT to do.

            Which gets us back to "Why are we killing the Taliban in Afghanistan?" Pat Tillman wanted to know, and his family still does.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 1:38 am on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            Rob123 Posts: 6595

            JB....62% of American Muslims have a College Degree, while 42% of the overall U.S. population does.

            And I hope you make an effort to see the Pat Tillman Story/Documentary......It appears to be a lot more than an emotionally ugly fraticide caused by the 'fog of war'. I have followed it since the beginning, but have a hard time with such a huge Conspiracy Theory.......However, maybe? Watching Iraq, after 7 years and 4,400 American KIA and ?hundred thousand? Iraq KIA and $700B in money spent that we don't have, and now we have a country all set up to be the next Lebanon with Shia and Sunni and Kurds fighting out proxy wars for Iran, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, etc., along with the Defense Contractors of the Worlds' bank account being enriched (the U.S. being the largest supplier in the world), I wonder.

            And is Pres. Obama a Muslim? Well, for people who think the definition of Muslim is determined by the seed of the father, just like those who believe Jewishness is determined by the seed of the mother, I guess. Although, since he says he is Christian, I guess he is? Since you are neither of the 3, as you have mentioned, but came from the seed of Polish immigrants during the age of nationalism, does that make you a Polish Joke?

             
          • Rob123 posted at 1:16 am on Fri, Aug 20, 2010.

            Rob123 Posts: 6595

            Pete: "I prefer free-range eggs and chickens. A point where Rob and I may agree? " Yes! However, I have a problem with their potty training, and try as I may, I can't train them or change my reaction to their messy ways, so they are best free ranging someplace else.
            Last night they showed the plant in Iowa that is allegedly responsibile for the outbreak on the news.....God almighty! I understand to a degree the need for industrialized egg production, but this is so huge, and pictures inside are just creepy, and the waste discharge stream is so huge, ......creepy, with a "there must be a better way?" feeling without an educated clue what it would be.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 11:44 pm on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            HTC -Donald Rumsfeld refuses to comment on whether he has shares in the manufacturers of Tamiflu


            Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1176743/Donald-Rumsfelds-controversial-links-drug-company-Tamiflu.html#ixzz0x7dF6mbg

            Four years ago the value of Mr Rumsfeld’s shares in Gilead Sciences saw a huge hike from an estimated £3million to an estimated £17million over the avian flu scare.

            how can we know for sure, he has never shown honesty.?

            Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1176743/Donald-Rumsfelds-controversial-links-drug-company-Tamiflu.html#ixzz0x7d301ua

             
          • jennydoe posted at 11:32 pm on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            Sweet jennydoe: ever so willingly (since Bronco dumped you ,of course.)

             
          • jennydoe posted at 11:29 pm on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            Okay JB, let me spell it out for you. Barack Hussein Obama is our elected president.
            He is trying to make the mess of our country better. He has to deal with jerks like you every day.
            He is not a Christian, nor is he a Muslim. He is a Pastasorium. He was born of the noodle appendage. Lean, Subtle, Flexible. He has been guided by the almighty Meatball in the sky. The basil in the marinara lifts him to levels only the fortunate can reach. The oregano spreads, consumes his soul and makes him pick garlic. He prances through the fields until he find those precious mushrooms popping out of cow manure. Ingesting those he flitters onto the great sea. It is red. He parts it with a flick of his fingers, floats through the space as never before, hurdles and tousles, turns, and spirals - he drops! onto your dinner plate full of spaghetti noodles with those dark brown spaghetti monster eyes, looks straight at ya, and says, “good morning, here we are in our places with bright shining faces, now I’m going to screw ya”
            you bend over, ever so willingly.
            There. That has got to make sense to you. If not, do more meds, my taxes are paying for them, I don't mind.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 11:27 pm on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "constant references to Islam having always been a "part of America's heritage", "

            ....Which is hardly true by any rational measure:

            Islam in the United States

            The earliest documented case of a Muslim to come to the United States is Dutchman Anthony Janszoon van Salee, who was born and raised in Spain and Morocco as the child of a pirate turned local governor and admiral and a Muslim mother. Van Salee came to New Amsterdam around 1630 and was referred to as 'Turk' and a landowner on Long Island. A Koran remained for long in the possession of his descendents, who apparently converted to Christianity. [1][2] Later there were two West African slaves: Ayuba Suleiman Diallo, who was brought to America in 1731 and returned to Africa in 1734,[3] and Omar Ibn Said in the mid 19th century. There has been some speculation that a Moor slave Estevanico of Azamor, who had converted to Christianity [4][5][6] 14 years before his arrival in North America in the early 16th century, was at least the first born Muslim to enter the historical record in North America.[7] There is also a tradition of an Egyptian named Norsereddin who settled in the Hudson Valley during colonial times. Islam however was almost completely absent in the United States until the 20th Century. The oldest Muslim community to establish in the country was the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community, in 1921, which pre-dates Nation of Islam.[8][9] Once very small, the Muslim population of the US increased greatly in the twentieth century, with much of the growth driven by rising immigration and widespread conversion.[10] In 2005, more people from Islamic countries became legal permanent United States residents — nearly 96,000 — than in any year in the previous two decades.[11][12] The new position has been created under white house executive office as a United States special envoy to the Organization of the Islamic Conference to promote relation between Islamic world and United States government.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 10:26 pm on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            Since this thread started, we've heard REPEATEDLY from certain individuals....who I will refer to as the Leftist Cadre.....that "anyone" who believes in God is not only a complete dullard AND psychotic but that religions cause all the violence in the world.....OK, perhaps not "all" just millions were murdered.

            Christians have been painted as particularly abhorrent by the Cadre. They say he only stated that to get elected.

            Then, when O'Blamer is thought by increasing numbers of Americans to be a muslim, the Cadre takes up the flag that he's NOT a muslim because he's a Christian.

            So, which is it....???

            Is he a muslim because he lied about being a Christian....???

            Or is he telling the truth about being a God fearing Christian....??? In which case he's psychotic and NOT to be trusted in any fashion whatsoever.

            Or does he just lie about everything all the time and THAT's why the Left values him so highly....???

            I really WOULD like to hear the rationalizations necessary to solve that conundrum fittingly for the Cadre.

            Please all answer at once...it's MUCH more hilarious when you come to each other's "rescue".

            There's another possibility, that the Cadre is itself lying about whatever might be politically convenient at any given moment so they can puff their chests out and declare themselves the "winners".

            There's a strong case to be made that ALL of those statements are true.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:50 pm on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9897

            jennydoe: growing number of americans show their ignorance.
            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Considering that they elected Obama, I'd have to agree.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 7:53 pm on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9897

            jennydoe: The poll found beliefs about the president's faith were closely linked to political judgments about him.
            -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            I'm not so sure about that since the percentage of Democrats that now think Obama might be a Muslim has increased 250% over the past 18 months. Many of these same Democrats still approved of the overall job Obama was doing; so, that doesn't sound like "political judgments" to me.

            Could it be all of his "outreach" to the Muslim world, giving $900M to Hamas, observing Ramadan in the White House, bowing to Muslim heads of state, constant references to Islam having always been a "part of America's heritage", etc. have something to do with their perceptions?

             
          • Pete posted at 6:51 pm on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            HTC..."He did make $5M on the sale of stock in Gilead Sciences, the maker of Tamiflu. BUT, that was in 2004."

            You and your inconvenient facts.

             
          • Pete posted at 6:05 pm on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            I prefer free-range eggs and chickens. A point where Rob and I may agree?

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 5:52 pm on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9897

            Rob123: Start with a cage containing five monkeys.....
            -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            The story of government.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 5:48 pm on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            Rob123 Posts: 6595

            The plant in Iowa, responsible for 228M eggs, had chickens that had salmonella in their kidneys, bladders. And if one cooks the eggs completely, the salmonella dies......Don't eat runny eggs sunnyside up.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 5:48 pm on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "Here we go again - another comet cult.

            When doth the comet arrive, oh Lard?"

            More importantly.....is there ANY hope that the lot of you will book seats on the next outward bound one..????

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 5:36 pm on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            HTC, fair enough on the chicken eggs. I'm still of the opinion the current administration is MUCH more deleterious to the health and welfare of this country than all the infected chicken eggs in the world.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 5:29 pm on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9897

            Rebel Rouser: the naked truth will set you aglow like the fiery comet which passes in the midnight sky. Let the almighty Lard's only prophet guide you. Let go, let Reb.
            -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Here we go again - another comet cult.

            When doth the comet arrive, oh Lard?

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 5:23 pm on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9897

            Bronco: OK, HTC. Lesson time....(3) Christianity....
            ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Well, I'm pleased to see that we could agree on the first two: Islam and atheism.

            It's a start....

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 5:13 pm on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9897

            Claus: Is Obama a Muslim? Or only a useful idiot?
            -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            If Obama is a Christian, as he himself states, then Rev. Wright represents his brand of Christianity.

            Given that connection, it would seem that his being a Muslim could actually be an improvement.

            Regardless, he is, to most Americans now, a USELESS idiot.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 5:05 pm on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            Rob123 Posts: 6595


            Monkeys


            Start with a cage containing five monkeys. Inside the cage, hang
            a banana on a string and place a set of stairs under it. Before long, a
            monkey will go to the stairs and start to climb towards the banana.


            As soon as he touches the stairs, spray all the other monkeys
            with cold water. After a while another monkey makes the attempt with
            same result, all the other monkeys are sprayed with cold water. Pretty
            soon when another Monkey tries to climb the stairs, the other monkeys
            will try to prevent it.


            Now, put the cold water away. Remove one monkey from the cage
            and replace it with a new one. The new monkey sees the banana and wants
            to climb the stairs.


            To his shock, all of the other monkeys beat the snot out of him.
            After another attempt and attack, he knows that if he tries to climb the
            stairs he will be assaulted.


            Next, remove another of the original five monkeys and replace it
            with a new one.


            The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked. The previous
            newcomer takes part in the punishment with enthusiasm.


            Likewise, replace a third original monkey with a new one, then a
            fourth, then the fifth. Every time the newest monkey takes to the stairs
            he is attacked.


            Most of the monkeys that are beating him up have no idea why
            they were not permitted to climb the stairs OR even why they are
            participating in the beating of the newest monkey. Finally, after
            replacing all of the original monkeys, none of the remaining monkeys
            have ever been sprayed with cold water. Nevertheless, no monkey ever
            again approaches the stairs to try for the banana.


            Why not?


            Because as far as they know, that is the way it has always been
            done around here.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 5:02 pm on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9897

            JB: HTC, as an adjunct did you know that the main method of developing mass amounts of biological warfare agents is to grow them in chicken eggs....???
            ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Yes, I am familiar with that.

            What makes me suspicious of this recall, besides the fact that the numbers of people affected are VERY small and the link thus far established is quite weak is this:

            (1) Almost two dozen major producers are involved. When there is a real food-source linked contamination problem, it usually comes from only one or two producers, not two dozen scattered over a LARGE geographical area.

            (2) All the victims sickened had eaten out when they were exposed. These eggs found their way to the consumer market by the hundreds of millions of eggs. Why aren't we seeing hundreds, even thousands of sick people that were exposed from their own cooking? That suggests to me that the source of their salmonella poisoning came from the food preparation process in those restaurants, NOT from the eggs. Contamination in the kitchen is the number one cause for salmonella poisoning.

             
          • Pete posted at 4:57 pm on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            The former brought to you by the dDemocrat mMessiah and the all powerful sState...in whom RR, Bronco, Jenny, and Rob express a glazed eye FAITH. They even wish to force others to tithe a greater percentage of their income to the sState...in return they promise a workers paradise...FAITH. They also promise whirled peas if we only follow the mMessiah's foreign appeasment policies...FAITH. They believe it when the mMessiah claims we can spend our way into prosperity...FAITH. They believe it when the mMessiah says "free" healthcare is the answer...FAITH. They believe the sState knows how to best educate our young people...FAITH. They believe illegal immigration isn't illegal as long as the illegals are true believers in the mMessiah and the sState...FAITH. They believe the sState is a benevolent gGod that has their best interests at heart....FAITH.

            We all have faith in something. You have faith in the omniscient state embodied by the persona of a community organizer from Chicago. I have faith in a carpenter from Nazareth. You have your gGod...I have mine.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 4:57 pm on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            Rob123 Posts: 6595

            Thou shalt not Shun the Lard, or the Economy will be in a perpetual L,,!?..{+}^^/^###$////--__-=^}{! with endless adjectives & exclamation points to describe the High Speed Computer Trades as the Pie size remains the same while the players grab each others part of the Pie in an attempt to see growth in ones own part of the pie at the expense of the other's part of the pie but nowhere does anyone know how to make the pie - as- such bigger because the underlieng doe was mortgaged 50+ times over 30 years and now we have to finally eat the crust and start over, Lard Help Us. Don't shun me Pete.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 4:51 pm on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9897

            jennydoe: as I recall Donald Rumsfeld make big bucks off his tamiflu vaccine.
            ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            He did make $5M on the sale of stock in Gilead Sciences, the maker of Tamiflu. BUT, that was in 2004.

            Tamiflu is the only thing that works when people are too sick to fight off the swine flu virus on their own (usually because they have compromised immune systems.)

             
          • Pete posted at 4:29 pm on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            By Richard Cowan and Donna Smith

            WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. economy faces difficult times ahead with chronic unemployment and slow manufacturing hurting the pace of recovery, the head of Congress' budget agency said on Thursday.

            The warning from the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office came on top of more bad U.S. economic data that heightened concerns about a return to recession, roiling markets. The gloomy outlook could also spell trouble for Democrats facing November congressional elections.

             
          • Pete posted at 4:28 pm on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            "Spike in layoffs feeds fear of faltering recovery
            Layoffs are back: Spike in unemployment claims points to weak job market, faltering recovery"

            Christopher S. Rugaber, AP Economics Writer, On Thursday August 19, 2010, 5:08 pm EDT
            WASHINGTON (AP) -- Layoffs are back, and that's bad news for the fragile economic recovery.

            New applications for unemployment benefits hit a nine-month high last week -- a spike that suggests private employers may shed jobs this month for the first time this year.

             
          • Pete posted at 4:27 pm on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Weekly Jobless Claims Post Surprise Jump, Hit 500,000
            Published: Thursday, 19 Aug 2010 | 9:05 AM ET
            By Reuters
            New U.S. claims for unemployment benefits unexpectedly climbed to a nine-month high last week, yet another setback to the frail economic recovery.

            Initial claims for state unemployment benefits increased 12,000 to a seasonally adjusted 500,000 in the week ended August 14, the highest since mid-November, the Labor Department said on Thursday.

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 4:06 pm on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1563

            You know you are a blast femur. The Lard IS the only one who can JUDGE YOU!!!!
            CR@P! I see you have a heaven guarantee (we don't have heaven yet, but our guys are looking into it).

            Shun if you must, but beware of the POWER OF THE LARD!!!!

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 4:02 pm on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1563

            Oh GREAT! Thanks Bronco, now I look like The Joker, and my ribs hurt.

             
          • Bronco posted at 3:52 pm on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            Rebel is a heretic. Join my church and save money!

            Welcome to the new

            Shun for Christ Church!


            The SCC has more to offer, you have more to gain.

            Tired of being pushed around in the real world? Push back at SCC!
            Learn some Bible and judge. Keep sinners in their place...far away.

            Tired of others controlling you in the real world? Ha!
            There's always someone to control at SCC!

            You can save $$$ too!
            At SCC we only demand 5%, that's 5% tithing.
            We guarantee you’ll get to heaven or we’ll double your money back!!!

            Just want to not think?
            At SCC we do your thinking for you.
            It’s that simple.

            And shunning! Do we shun or what?
            Anyone who does not agree with us we shun.
            Anyone who doesn’t dress like us we shun.
            Anyone who doesn’t shun like us …WE SHUN!

            Join us now for the shun of it!
            We take sinners and shunners.
            Everyone has a place at SCC.
            Learn yours now!


            Shun for Christ Church!
            666 Hypocrite Loop
            San Diablo, Cal.
            (800) 666-SHUN
            smooth operators standing by

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 2:42 pm on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "If decade after decade the truth cannot be told, each person's mind begins to roam irretrievably. One's fellow countrymen become harder to understand than Martians."

            "The solemn pledge to abstain from telling the truth was called socialist realism." — Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn

            "I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell." -- Harry S Truman

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 2:34 pm on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            On second thought, Jen......perhaps you could share your copy of the "lexicon according to Bronco" which I'm sure would set everything straight.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 2:30 pm on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "Should" = Is ....."

            You're worse than him, now the statement reads, "Is I defend communism would I be called a communist?"

            Which makes even less sense, thanks to you.

            To quote one of your heroes, "It all depends on what the meaning of Is is."

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 2:23 pm on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "So basically, JB, you're saying killing millions of heretics is not Christian violence. "

            I can't make any sense out of your posts any more. I thought the guys you mentioned were the supposed heretics. I'm still waiting for your reference material as you continue to take more and more pride in being obscure and tangential.

            In any event, there's NOTHING in the New Testament which prescribes killing "heretics"....and if you're trying to distort [imagine THAT] something out of the Old Testament, then NO.....it cannot be by definition "Christian".

            Secondly, you ridicule people all day long that believe in God.....then you use an expression like "GD" this or that......wouldn't it require God to do the damning.....???

            I suppose now YOU have a sister named Gertrude Diefenbacher.....

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 1:36 pm on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1563

            My dear lost sole Rob, you sound like the perfect one to be anointed by Lard, if you would just hold still for a moment, damnit!

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 1:27 pm on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1563

            BTW, the first ten converts will be placed (in order of joining (after the check clears)) in the Gooid Book. Also, you will automatically be placed at the Lards right hand during the Yeehad. (Yeehad is when all Realityists fight against those of them whom are not with us).

            YEEEEHADDD!!!

             
          • Rob123 posted at 1:20 pm on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            Rob123 Posts: 6595

            Geewillicurs, Reb, sounds mighty perdy. How can you have the Yin without the Yang? Or vice a versa, or, geez, I don't know, Reb, how much does it cost? And it's not time consuming, is it? That's always kind of scary.

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 1:10 pm on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1563

            Speaking of realty, because of our current economic situation, tithing will be a low 9.175% instead of the "other religions) 10%, saving you more money each month, and real estate is acceptable as tithing for new converts.

            Sorry to hear about Miss Pelling.

            Praise the Lard.

             
          • Bronco posted at 12:44 pm on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            So basically, JB, you're saying killing millions of heretics is not Christian violence.

            Let me clarify, explain in simpler terms so you can understand, JB. If I defended communism would I be called a communist? You're GD right I would be called a communist.

            You defend Thomas Jefferson's words, like Frank, so both of you have red hair, have intercourse with your female slaves, are not Christians, don't believe in the Christian god, and hate the English.

            Just how many times did your mother drop you on your head when you were a baby?

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 12:37 pm on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "I am now the Prophet of the Lards NEW religion, Realtyism"

            Hmmm, so what prompted you to start a religion based on real estate...???

            Main Entry: re·al·ty
            Pronunciation: \ˈrē(-ə)l-tē\
            Function: noun
            Etymology: real + -ty (as in property)
            Date: 1670

            : real estate

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 12:32 pm on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "Communism is better than our democracy. Anyone who believes otherwise is a fool.

            OK, that said...I am not a communist nor did I defend communism."

            Look, if you can't even keep your story straight in the space of three sequential statements how is anyone supposed to know when you've made your point....???......

            Especially when you then claim that it is "my logic" whereas your statements are totally illogical on their face.

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 12:18 pm on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1563

            I am now the Prophet of the Lards NEW religion, Realtyism. I have been summoned through a series of spiritual encounters to lead and guide mankind (and some womankind) to spiritual Reality. When we reach Reality, WE will all be at peace. No pain, no suffering, just peace. Reality starts with education, experience, knowledge, and open mindedness, and is brought forward to fruition by each individual becoming at peace with knowing what is real and what is not real. The Lard will comfort you, engage you, challenge your existing thoughts about religion and guide you to understanding how you have been tricked into believing in things not real. Praise the Lard. You can (and will) be part of everything that is real. The ragged garments of falsehood will be shed, and the naked truth will set you aglow like the fiery comet which passes in the midnight sky. Let the almighty Lard's only prophet guide you. Let go, let Reb.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 12:04 pm on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            Rob123 Posts: 6595

            I'm not sure how Bronco feels about this, JB, but I know I feel a little uneasy when I can jump over someones head without raising my feet off the ground. Read his post again, take a deep breath, and think about it.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 11:53 am on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "Millions were tortured and slaughtered in the name of Christianity during the periods of the Arian, Donatist and Albigensian heresies."

            I guess you conveniently MISSED the term "heresies"....??? Which is to say that even if your claim of "millions" is supportable, it was NOT a function of mainstream "Christianity" as we know it whereas muslims are specifically ORDERED to act out their violent tendencies in order to achieve their version of the kingdom of heaven.

            Cite your source.

            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

            As Daniel Hoffman acknowledges, the Crusades ultimately fell seriously short of accepted Christian standards for a just war, despite the fact that they were undertaken for largely noble reasons. These dark annals of church history are fair game should Hollywood choose to shine a light on them. It is not fair game, however, to distort the facts, capitalizing on the public’s ignorance of history, all for the purpose of striking a low blow at Christianity. Hofmann convincingly demonstrates that this is exactly what Kingdom of Heaven does.

            Andrew G. Bostom, author of The Legacy of Jihad (Prometheus, 2005), puts the matter into historical perspective:

            From its earliest inception, through the present, jihad has been central to the thought and writings of prominent Muslim theologians and jurists. The precepts and regulations elucidated in the 7th through 9th centuries are immutable in the Muslim theological-juridical system, and they have remained essentially unchallenged by the majority of contemporary Muslims. The jihad is intrinsic to the sacred Muslim texts, including the divine Qur’anic revelation itself, whereas the Crusades were circumscribed historical events subjected to (ongoing and meaningful) criticism by Christians themselves. Unlike the espousal of jihad in the Qur’an, the constituent texts of Christianity, the Old and New Testaments of the Bible, do not contain a form fruste [sic] institutionalization of the Crusades. The Bible sanctions the Israelites’ conquest of Canaan, a limited domain; it does not sanction a permanent war to submit all the nations of humanity to a uniform code of religious law….The Crusades as an historical phenomenon were a reaction to events resulting from over 450 years of previous jihad campaigns.5

            The fact that the New Testament in particular never enjoins a holy war needs to be considered much more carefully than it often is.

            http://www.equip.org/articles/muslim-jihad-christian-crusades

            Please see also, Page 4: http://tinyurl.com/2g3b29r

             
          • jennydoe posted at 11:53 am on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            poor JB - just hates being associated to Christians.
            "Should" = Is .....
            take out of context. surprise......

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 11:38 am on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            Ooops, my bad. It must have been that OTHER Bronco who unequivocally stated at 1:57 pm on Wed, Aug 18, 2010, "Should I defend communism would I be called a communist? You're GD right I will. "

            Seems pretty definite to me...not to mention you obviate your belief in God in the same statement.

             
          • Bronco posted at 10:59 am on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            Bronco: I am against ALL religion that promotes the division of mankind and violence. Question is; why aren't you?
            ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            HTC: "I am, too. I only know of two such religions:
            (1) Islam
            (2) Atheism"
            **************************
            OK, HTC. Lesson time.
            (3) Christianity
            Saint Augustine’s cognite intrare (“lead them in”—i.e. “force them to convert”). Millions were tortured and slaughtered in the name of Christianity during the periods of the Arian, Donatist and Albigensian heresies.

            The Crusades: The European armies were saying, as they slaughtered both Christian and Muslim Arabs: “Kill them all, God will know his own.” And, "It is God's will!"

            Europe's Reformation and Counter Reformation Era: Two thirds of the Christian population of Europe was slaughtered by Christians

            The African slave trade (Slavery condoned by the Bible): Claimed the lives of 10 million

            The Colonial Conquests: Estimates for the number of Native Americans slaughtered by the Europeans in North, Central and South America run as high as 20 million within three generations.

            The 20 th century's Western Civilization took warfare to new extremes: A conservative estimate puts the total number of brutal deaths in the 20 th century at more than 250 million. Of these, Muslims are responsible for less than 10 million deaths. Christians, or those coming from Christian backgrounds account for more than 200 million of these! The greatest death totals come from World War I (about 20 million, at least 90 % of which were inflicted by “Christians”) and World War II ( 90 million, at least 50% of which were inflicted by “Christians,” the majority of the rest occurring in the Far East). Given this grim history, it appears that we Europeans must all come to grips with the fact that Islamic civilization has actually been incomparably less brutal than Christian civilization. Did the Holocaust of over 6 million Jews occur out of the background of a Muslim Civilization?

            Rawanda, 1994: Witness the slaughter of 900,000 Rwandans in 1994 in a population that was over 90 % Christian

            1992-1995 Bosnia: The genocide of over 300,000 Muslims and systematic rape of over 100,000 Muslim women by Christian Serbs

            According to the bible there's even going to be a war in heaven.

            Bottom line, Christians kill a lot of people. GW Bush told us God spoke to him and told him to go to war with Iraq. We have our very own Marines for Christ. No matter what the bible says, Christians don't hesitate to murder people in God's name. THAT is the Christian religion of the past and the present.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 10:45 am on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            ....and you made such a sweet couple...

             
          • Bronco posted at 10:36 am on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            JB: "For instance, he's (Bronco) point-blank stated that he is in favor of communism over our form of government.......which, by the way, is NOT a "democracy" but a representative republic.....he went so far as to say he would defend it at all costs. "

            What I said was, "I am not a communist nor did I defend communism."


            I'm breaking up with you. I have standards. One of those is not to be with a liar, no matter how on fire he is for me. You can have your first season of The Unit back and your blu-ray extended version of Brokeback Mountain with the deleted scenes. I'm having your blue dress dry cleaned. Your Koran is still on the altar next to the chicken feet and the Ayatollah Khomeini's big toe. I'm keeping your prayer mat: too many memories of you on your knees, I guess. The chocolate crucifixes are still in the fridge. Take them and leave the apartment key on the nightstand next to the defibrillator.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 10:36 am on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            About the President’s Advisory Council on Faith-based and Neighborhood Partnerships
            The President's Advisory Council on Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships brings together leaders and experts in fields related to the work of faith-based and neighborhood organizations in order to make recommendations to government on how to improve partnerships. Each Council serves a one year term. The Council is charged with:

            Identify best practices and successful modes of delivering social services;
            Evaluate the need for improvements in the implementation and coordination of public policies relating to faith-based and neighborhood organizations; and
            Making recommendations to the President and the Administration on changes in policies, programs, and practices.
            http://www.whitehouse.gov/administration/eop/ofbnp/about/council
            ------------------------

            FSM darn that oblamer - trying to get along

             
          • jennydoe posted at 10:19 am on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            gosh darn teenagers..........

            Reality TV finalist Francisco Patino steered developer to mosque site near Ground Zero

            Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/08/19/2010-08-19_it_was_all_his_idea_reality_tv_finalist_steered_developer_to_mosque_site.html#ixzz0x4Mf4k5G

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 10:06 am on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "the president has been diligent and personally committed to his own Christian faith"

            So, the question remains: WHY is it none of you religion haters are jumping up and down and pointing about "political" uses of supposed "religious" beliefs when your shining example of the Left keeps insisting that he's a devout Christian....???

            Lay off the, "there's an immutable standard by which all people who declare themselves to be Christians are automatically evil incarnate".....BUT, Obama gets a free ride, bible in hand.

            "White House faith adviser Joshua DuBois"

            What on earth is a "White House faith adviser".....??? ANOTHER evil Christian, no doubt. That's the first time I've heard of a religious bureaucracy head chosen by O'Blamer....!!!

            Thanks for pointing that out.

            Gee, the White House Religious Czar......whoda thunkit.....???

             
          • jennydoe posted at 9:45 am on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            'Spreading falsehoods'

            The White House attributed the mistaken beliefs about Mr Obama's religion to a "misinformation campaign" pursued by his political opponents.

            "While the president has been diligent and personally committed to his own Christian faith, there's certainly folks who are intent on spreading falsehoods about the president and his values and beliefs," White House faith adviser Joshua DuBois told AFP news agency.

            The poll found beliefs about the president's faith were closely linked to political judgments about him.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 9:41 am on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            "growing number falsely believe....."

            falsely being the key word.
            -----------

            growing number of americans show their ignorance.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 9:38 am on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "oh my JB.....there is no lie when I tell you my sister is BJ.
            get over it. and speaking of bj’s - don’t you wish you were a teen?"

            You just PROVED my point.

            And, NO....I wish YOU weren't.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 9:37 am on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "Dang, you two.....sometimes all I can do is shake my head and walk away"

            WHICH "two"...???

            I fail to see how I'm included in your ridiculous statements.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 9:26 am on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            Rob123 Posts: 6595

            Dang, you two.....sometimes all I can do is shake my head and walk away...................yet I drag this image of poor HTC on one of his foreign excusions selling products from his Silicon Valley Corporation, his shiny San Francisco Wing Tips and New York cut Brook Brothers Suit immaculate, Leather Brief Case, $100.00+ Hair Cut, Silk Socks and Undies; yet totally distressed at the passing Monks being fed by the poor inhabitants who are into some type of mutual Karma Deal that transcends all logic and causes one to think of American Dharma Bums and their outlandish poetry that he had to read in college. "These people need a job!" runs through his head, as he rushes to the meeting with the Local Branch of the New Emerging Market Tycoons with his deal of deals, feeling so superior.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 9:24 am on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "HTC - as I recall Donald Rumsfeld make big bucks off his tamiflu vaccine."

            Please read the ENTIRE item at: http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/tamiflu.asp It's not "his" vaccine.

            But, hey we're talkin' Jenny here.....no need to have reality enter into the picture when you can go into a good rant, huh....????

             
          • jennydoe posted at 9:01 am on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            HTC - as I recall Donald Rumsfeld make big bucks off his tamiflu vaccine.


             
          • JBSTONE posted at 8:56 am on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "Is Obama a Muslim? Or only a useful idiot? You decide..."

            Growing Number of Americans Believe President Obama is Muslim:

            The poll indicates that groups who have shown the most willingness to believe the wrong assertion that the president is a Muslim include conservative Republicans -- 34% of whom believe the president is Muslim. Eighteen percent of independents say the president is a Muslim, up from 10% in March 2009.

            But even among the president's allies, the numbers are shifting. In March 2009, 55% of Democrats said the president is a Christian, which he is. That number is now 46%. African-Americans, who voted for President Obama overwhelmingly, have also shown a similar shift. In March 2009, 36% of African-Americans said they didn't know the president's religion; that number is now 46%. Self-described liberal Democrats who don't know what religion the president is shifted from 23% to 31%.

            Says Pew: "When asked how they learned about Obama’s religion in an open-ended question, 60% of those who say Obama is a Muslim cite the media. Among specific media sources, television (at 16%) is mentioned most frequently. About one-in-ten (11%) of those who say Obama is a Muslim say they learned of this through Obama’s own words and behavior."

            READ MORE AT: http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2010/08/growing-number-of-americans-falsely-believe-president-obama-is-muslim.html

            Oh, and....."The poll was taken between July 21 and August 5, BEFORE the controversy over the proposed Islamic Center to be built two blocks from Ground Zero."

             
          • jennydoe posted at 8:54 am on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            oh my JB.....there is no lie when I tell you my sister is BJ.
            get over it. and speaking of bj’s - don’t you wish you were a teen?
            I have never requested womanly respect from you, as you and I have both pointed out, you don’t have it in you.
            My avatar is indeed a symbol of my deity, thanks for noticing, but no...it is not me. My deity is as real as any ones.
            Hate is such a powerful word. I don’t hate, and feel bad for you that you can so easily hate. Try some love.
            I am glad you are not like me, but more importantly that I am not like you!

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 8:46 am on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "The most common symptoms of salmonella are diarrhea, abdominal cramps and fever within eight hours to 72 hours of eating a contaminated product. It can be life-threatening, especially to those with weakened immune systems.

            This form of salmonella can be passed from chickens that appear healthy. And it grows inside eggs, not just on the shell, Braden noted.

            Thoroughly cooking eggs can kill the bacteria. But health officials are recommending people throw away or return the recalled eggs."

            HTC, as an adjunct did you know that the main method of developing mass amounts of biological warfare agents is to grow them in chicken eggs....??? I'm not saying the salmonella outbreak was on purpose, I'm just pointing out that for some reason eggs are the ideal incubator for many different kinds of deadly viruses and such. I'll pass on those recalled eggs if it's all the same to you.

            "viruses are grown in tissue culture or on fertilized eggs. Iraq maintained large egg incubator capacity at several facilities that were involved with its biological weapons program. " http://www.isis-online.org/publications/iraq/leitenberg.html

            A fairly comprehensive account of U.S. activities in this realm are delineated in "Germs: Biological Weapons and America's Secret War" by Judith Miller, William Broad, Stephen Engelberg

            And finally, you can find extensive research I've done on such topics evidenced in "Waging, Defending and Covering Up Bio-Chemical Warfare" http://www.freedominion.com.pa/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14573

            But, hey....what do I know....??? I was just there.

             
          • Claus posted at 8:42 am on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            Claus Posts: 394

            Is Obama a Muslim? Or only a useful idiot?

            You decide...

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCAffMSWSzY

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 8:23 am on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            Perhaps the Dalai Lama is giggling because he gets to sip champagne with those world leaders and be feted at book tour stops while the people of Tibet continue to be ravaged in his absence.....???

            "one should give equal time to the violence laced through out the Christian world, and the Hindu, Jainist, etc., etc., worlds" OK, fair enough. I supplied you with a web site that delineates how islamic terrorists have carried out more than 15,800 deadly attacks since 9-11....each with a corresponding news report. Let's see YOUR list of corresponding "violence laced throughout the Christian world, etc. etc." during the same period of time. I'm betting the colossal difference in scale will eradicate any such notion. Please note that I'm speaking of acts INTENDED to spread terror and further "mohammed's way", not personal disputes which conveniently include people who are presumed to be of one faith or another. I've already made it abundantly clear that I think there are people who fall FAR short of the mark in ANY religion. And so I ASK you.....when was the last time a cadre of Quaker Terrorists flew their planes into a skyscraper, killing THOUSANDS of innocent victims in the name of Christ and then had the pleasure of seeing their cohorts literally dancing in the streets in joy an ocean away......???

            I wanna see the news footage on THAT one.

            Show me ONE of the types of religions you use as examples that actually preaches from its core teachings that those who refuse to convert are to be slaughtered, tortured, and cut to little bits and some evidence to go with it. Please exclude the Jim Jones and David Kouresh types that proclaim themselves to be Jesus Christ or whomever might be central to those religions when in fact they are just distorting people's beliefs to THEIR own self gratifying version and perverted vision....or for that matter, any other religion that bases its "faith" on the ramblings of a brutal military leader.

            HTC is spot on in including atheism as a faith that fits perfectly your notion of religions in general in that literally MILLIONS of people have been murdered in its name in the last century alone.

            You have NOTHING outside your ridiculous bluster and blather.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 7:44 am on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9897

            More government paranoia. The CDC reports an average of 27,000 cases of salmonella poisoning EVERY WEEK and suddenly a few hundred cases in three months is an epidemic. Kind of reminds me of the swine flu fiasco.


            Health Officials Recall 380 Million Eggs Over Salmonella Outbreak
            Wednesday, August 18, 2010
            AP
            ATLANTA —

            Hundreds of people have been sickened in a salmonella outbreak linked to eggs in three states and possibly more, and health officials on Wednesday dramatically expanded a recall to 380 million eggs.

            The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is working with state health departments to investigate the illnesses. No deaths have been reported, said Dr. Christopher Braden, a CDC epidemiologist involved in the investigation.

            Initially, 228 million eggs were recalled but that number was increased to the equivalent of nearly 32 million dozen-egg cartons.

            Minnesota, a state with some of the best food-borne illness investigators in the country, has tied at least seven salmonella illnesses to the eggs.

            Other states have seen a jump in reports of the type of salmonella. For example, California has reported 266 illnesses since June and believes many are related to the eggs. Colorado saw 28 cases in June and July, about four times the usual number. Spikes or clusters of suspicious cases have also been reported in Arizona, Nevada, Illinois, Texas and Wisconsin.

            Salmonella is the most common bacterial form of food poisoning. And the strain involved in the outbreak is the most common strain of salmonella, accounting for roughly 20 percent of all salmonella food poisonings.

            Unfortunately, current lab tests do not allow health officials to fingerprint this form of salmonella as precisely as other kinds of food-borne illness. So determining the size of a salmonella enteritidis outbreak is a little more challenging, Braden said.

            The Food and Drug Administration also is investigating.

            Much of the investigation so far has been centered on restaurants in California, Colorado and Minnesota where sick people ate. They are not necessarily breakfast places — it's possible some got sick from eating a salad dressing that had a raw egg in it, or eating soup with an undercooked egg dropped in, Braden said.

            In one state, a cluster of illnesses seem to stem from meringue pie, health officials said.

            Eggs from Wright County Egg in Galt, Iowa, were linked to several illnesses in the three states. The eggs were distributed around the country and packaged under the names Lucerne, Albertson, Mountain Dairy, Ralph's, Boomsma's, Sunshine, Hillandale, Trafficanda, Farm Fresh, Shoreland, Lund, Dutch Farms and Kemp.

            The initial recall was issued last week. Eggs affected by the expanded recall were distributed to food wholesalers, distribution centers and food service companies in California, Colorado, Minnesota, Arkansas, Arizona, Georgia, Illinois, Iowa, Oklahoma, Oregon, Missouri, Nebraska, Nevada, Texas, Utah, Washington and Wisconsin.

            "We are undertaking this additional recall to further protect the safety of consumers — this voluntary measure is consistent with our commitment to egg safety, and it is our responsibility," Wright County Egg officials said in a statement Wednesday evening.

            In an earlier statement, company officials said the FDA is "on-site to review records and inspect our barns." The officials said they began the recall Aug. 13.

            The most common symptoms of salmonella are diarrhea, abdominal cramps and fever within eight hours to 72 hours of eating a contaminated product. It can be life-threatening, especially to those with weakened immune systems.

            This form of salmonella can be passed from chickens that appear healthy. And it grows inside eggs, not just on the shell, Braden noted.

            Thoroughly cooking eggs can kill the bacteria. But health officials are recommending people throw away or return the recalled eggs.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 6:46 am on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9897

            Rob123: what is it about the Dalai Lama as he walks and talks amongst the World's leaders and sooner or later always seems to look them in the eye and peacefully giggle?
            ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Maybe the giggle is because he he knows he has much of the world fooled.

            Where are his acts of charity? While so many give to them, why are the Buddhist monks so niggardly in their own charity to others?

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 6:29 am on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9897

            Bronco: I am against ALL religion that promotes the division of mankind and violence. Question is; why aren't you?
            ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            I am, too. I only know of two such religions:

            (1) Islam

            (2) Atheism

             
          • Rob123 posted at 3:39 am on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            Rob123 Posts: 6595

            JB....It's fine for you to point out the violence that is laced through out the Muslim world. However, one should give equal time to the violence laced through out the Christian world, and the Hindu, Jainist, etc., etc., worlds. Then there is Nationalism with it's underlying "Religious" and/or cultural mores......A long history that causes us Humans to look a lot like roving bands of chimpanzees fighting for turf and breeding rights, but able to sublimate it into all sorts of Intellectual Justifications. The Enlightened Secret is "How do we stop this way of Life"? The Historical Jesus tried to show a way out of the Roman occupation of Isreal, but the message was 'spirtualized' and 'materialized' and finally 'militarized' and turned on it's head. All the Big Religions seem to have this 'point-counter point' feature. And when 'Peace Breaks Out', it is temporary since each generation has to relearn why Peace trumps carnage. Keep trying, don't give up. but ......what is it about the Dalai Lama as he walks and talks amongst the World's leaders and sooner or later always seems to look them in the eye and peacefully giggle? One doesn't have to be a Tibetan Buddhist to 'get it'.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 3:27 am on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            For all....

            WHY ARE FEMINISTS SURPRISED THEIR DAUGHTERS ARE SLUTS?

            By: Henry Makow

            In a recent article "Outraged Moms, Trashy Daughters" by Anne Kingston, (Macleans, Aug 16, 2010) mothers lament that their daughters now see "empowerment" in terms of pleasuring males.

            While the feminist mothers saw power as financial independence and rejected female "objectification," their daughters accept the pornographic message of pop music and advertising. In the words of one mom, they "believe their purpose in life is to be sexual beings who please men."

            "A b*** j** is like shaking hands," said another mom. "Their attitude is: 'We're emancipated, we're liberated, we're in control. They see [it] as power; I see it as giving their power away."

            http://www.etherzone.com/2010/mako081710.shtml

            In reference to the original article in Macleans: http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/08/10/outraged-moms-trashy-daughters/print/

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 3:11 am on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            gutter·snipe (-snīp′)

            noun
            a child of the slums who spends most of his or her time in the streets: contemptuous term applied to anyone regarded as having the manners, morals, etc. of the gutter

            Origin: orig. (Brit dial.), the common snipe, which picks food out of gutters

            Webster's New World College Dictionary Copyright © 2010 by Wiley Publishing, Inc., Cleveland, Ohio.
            Used by arrangement with John Wiley & Sons, Inc.

            gut·ter·snipe (gŭtˈər-snīpˌ)
            noun

            1. A street urchin.
            2. A person of the lowest class.

            ~~~~~~~~~~~

            Oh, and I apologize for MY typo, inadvertently dividing it into two words......didn't really change the meaning or intent, however.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 3:01 am on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            Nice try, Jenny.

            First of all, I never SAID Bronco was gay. I said I didn't hate him because he was gay. Which is true. Actually, I hate him because of his obviously priding himself on his non-stop attack on everything which constitutes the strength in the fabric of our nation's society. For instance, he's point-blank stated that he is in favor of communism over our form of government.......which, by the way, is NOT a "democracy" but a representative republic.....he went so far as to say he would defend it at all costs. Then, he pretends he is an "agnostic" when in actuality he just hates everyone who believes in God.....which is NOT "the same thing".

            YOU chime in with that same doggerel whenever you get the chance with your "flying spaghetti monster" schtick. You can clear up ONE thing however....what IS that amorphous blob you've chosen for your avatar...is THAT your "flying monster".....???....and, if so, does it also mean that you think of yourself as your own deity...??? It would certainly seem fitting from your comments. In fact, both you AND Bronco suffer from the that same delusional stance.

            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~

            Now, as for how I "should" treat women. THAT's a laugh. No one knows if you were even born female, this being the internet. And, judging from the manner in which you've conducted yourself from day one, presuming the role of "just one of the guys"......now the two of you are SHOCKED that I treat you in the manner that you invite.....???

            Yeah, right.

            If, on the other hand, either of you is suggesting you should be treated "like a lady"......which is an ENTIRELY different topic......when you alter your stance to ACTING like one THEN I'll reconsider my disgust for you. Not until then. Do you REALLY think I'm gullible enough to fall for your backpedaling and lying about the B*** J** reference..??? Please....get real....and, I'd like you to further explain how you see that as prim, proper and above reproach. It took you a while but it appears you eventually gathered the meaning of my corresponding story about my brother Bob.

            Sorry, but you can't have it both ways......you want some kind of outre "respect" because you claim to be something you're not then you want free reign to act just the opposite when convenient. It's indicative of your lack of moral compass which you have gone out of your way repeatedly to showcase....ain't gonna happen, not from me.

            You REVEL in being, "just one of the guys".....in the worst of ways......then you get all huffy when that's accepted and you immediately switch to a posture whereby some kind of feigned offense has supposedly taken place. Curious, to say the least. All it's ever going to get you from me is utter disdain.

            You and Bronco reel in horror and don't "like" me because I'm not "just like you." Thank you....I'll take that as a positive affirmation. I'd just as soon NOT be lumped in with your mutual psychoses.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 2:21 am on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "And I guess you decide which "teachings" are relevant. "

            No.....but, as per usual there's simply no CONTENT to your tirade.

            You hate "all those religions" and yet you can't name a SINGLE one.

            Fascinating.

             
          • Bronco posted at 12:31 am on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            You got me, JB. Or rather you had me at BrownCow.
            A confession: I swore off men...for 20-years. And then...something magical happened. Someone magical happened.
            A man.
            A Montana man.
            A Whitefish man.
            A self-proclaimed human test rat.
            A man who plants flowers.
            Fields of flowers.
            Our love has bloomed.
            He plays the hard-to-get, angry dominator.
            I don't play.
            I am his boy toy.
            Come on out, JB.
            The closet is too small for such a hunk like you.
            And I have Brokeback Mountain on HD!

            XOXOXOXOXXXXX!

             
          • jennydoe posted at 11:15 pm on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            How could anyone take any of your postings serious, JB?
            You think you'll get a good stab in. You sure got bent out of shape with my typo.
            You have no problem showing dis-respect to Bronco. And there wouldn't be anything wrong if he was gay, but you and I both know he is not and you continually try to irk people, one minute you'll have a beer with them , if your meds wouldn't interfere, the next they are sickening to you. But heck in a few hours when they compliment you, you're on top of the world, and appeasing. But it doesn't take but a mere posting by myself, Bronco, Rob et al, to set you off into a dimension so ugly, vile and useless.
            Love and lots of lipstick on a guinea pig.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 10:56 pm on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            gee JB, I really do have a sister, Barbara Jo, do you really have a brother, Bob? When was the last time he said I was a useless gutter snipe (whatever that means)?

            Bronco asks you to be less of an a$$hole, but between you and me, we know you won't, you haven't the decency.
            We both know what a$$hole means, don't we?
            Thanks for finding me WORTHY tonight =-}

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 10:54 pm on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "JB, when you talk to women, could you please be less of an a$$hole?"

            What...????

            I already TOLD you I don't hate you because you're gay.

             
          • Bronco posted at 10:50 pm on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            And I guess you decide which "teachings" are relevant.

             
          • Bronco posted at 10:49 pm on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            Bronco: "I am against ALL religion that promotes the division of mankind and violence. Question is; why aren't you?"

            JB: "Please LIST them and the reasons that you personally find them a threat.....while you're at it, please show us some evidence that such "teachings" are prevalent here in 2010 and forward."

            Show me some evidence of your god tweaking his magic book in the last 1900 years or so please and I will comply. Or has the pPsycho abandoned you?

             
          • Bronco posted at 10:45 pm on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            JB, when you talk to women, could you please be less of an a$$hole?

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 10:36 pm on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "the mixing of your letters was by mistake, my sister, barbara jo, whom i email often with only her initials must have got in the way, although it was funny - wasn't it?"

            My brother, Bob Stone says you're a useless gutter snipe.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 10:35 pm on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "my 2/3 and your 1/3 = 3/3"

            No, YOUR 2/3 + a cup of coffee equals a buck wasted.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 10:22 pm on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            good evening Rob, cheers -
            IRAQ-KUWAIT BORDER — The last U.S. combat troops crossed the border into Kuwait on Thursday morning, bringing to a close the active combat phase of a 7½-year war that overthrew the dictatorial regime of Saddam Hussein, forever defined the presidency of George W. Bush and left more than 4,400 American service members and tens of thousands of Iraqis dead.

            http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38744453/ns/world_news-mideastn_africa?obamaasfighterjetpilot

            yes.


             
          • jennydoe posted at 10:18 pm on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            JBSTONE posted at 10:11 pm on Tue, Aug 17, 2010
            Jenny, you aren't WORTH replying to

            JBSTONE posted at 2:10 pm on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.
            "jennydoe: if two-thirds of us are behind the atheist view"

            In your case, I'm not even sure that 2/3 is all there.
            -------------------------
            my 2/3 and your 1/3 = 3/3, how about it JB? the mixing of your letters was by mistake, my sister, barbara jo, whom i email often with only her initials must have got in the way, although it was funny - wasn't it?

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 10:17 pm on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            Thanks for your comments, Rebel. I will continue to back up my positions as necessary.

            ~~~~~~~~~~~~

            Nothing like an outdoor grilling to break a Ramadan fast

            http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index_files/ramadan-grilling.jpg

            http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iwk632eid4pnvyX40jL4PPhcYieA

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 10:15 pm on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "I am against ALL religion that promotes the division of mankind and violence. Question is; why aren't you?"

            Please LIST them and the reasons that you personally find them a threat.....while you're at it, please show us some evidence that such "teachings" are prevalent here in 2010 and forward.

             
          • Bronco posted at 8:38 pm on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            Precisely, JB, why ALL religions should be private, not public. The bible has terror in it too.

            I am against ALL religion that promotes the division of mankind and violence. Question is; why aren't you?

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 7:34 pm on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1563

            Islam: Damn JB, I think I will run all of my future (intended) posts through you first, so maximum information is posted! Good job finding this stuff, very informative indeed.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 6:21 pm on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "That's why we're building a 21st century Department of Veterans Affairs. We've made one of the largest percentage increase in the VA’s budget in 30 years, and we're dramatically increasing funding for veterans' health across the board. In particular, we're delivering unprecedented resources to treat signature wounds of today's wars—Traumatic Brain Injury and Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. "

            ....the lease for a new Veterans Center has just been signed for a commercial space on Meridian, near the Fair Grounds.

            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

            "Traumatic Brain Injury and Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder."

            I'm doing what I can and I didn't wait for the federal government to say it was OK:

            http://www.freedominion.com.pa/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=81888

            Which is part of a larger effort:

            http://www.freedominion.com.pa/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=55

            ....over 900,000 page hits since its inception.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 6:10 pm on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            Think "it can't happen here, this is Monatana"....???

            Feds: Alaska couple had 20 names on hit list

            By MARK THIESSEN (AP) – 1 day ago

            ANCHORAGE, Alaska — A rural Alaska couple accused of domestic terrorism had 20 names on a hit list and had moved to the operational phase.

            That's according to new court documents filed against Paul and Nadia Rockwood of King Salmon. They have pleaded guilty to lying about the list and making false statements to the FBI.

            Authorities say Paul Rockwood became a strict adherent to a violent Jihad-promoting ideology after converting to Islam.

            The hit list contained 20 targets, none in Alaska and none named.

            Officials claim the list consists of seven individuals, seven military members, two religious organizations, two publishing companies, a publishing executive and a media personality.

            Sentencing is set for Aug. 23. He's expected to get eight years maximum, and his wife probation.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 6:04 pm on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ib9rofXQl6w; Three things about Islam. Interesting".

            AHEM: "I also have serious misgivings about the muslim "faith". Although I have met several decent individuals who were muslims and even had some as clients in commercial real estate, there's some pretty hateful stuff in the Koran which we all know is being acted out upon much too frequently lately. I can unequivocally state that I think Sharia Law is pure barbarism in its finest form and that a world wide Caliphate would be an unmitigated disaster the scale and nature of which has been heretofore unseen on this planet."

            Such as:

            The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.

            These verses are mostly open-ended, meaning that the historical context is not embedded within the surrounding text - as are nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence. They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subjective as anything else in the Qur'an.

            Unfortunately, there are very few verses of tolerance and peace to abrogate or even balance out the many that call for nonbelievers to be fought and subdued until they either accept humiliation, convert to Islam, or are killed. This proclivity toward violence - and Muhammad's own martial legacy - has left a trail of blood and tears across world history.

            http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/023-violence.htm

            "Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51) [could've been written by Bronco]
            "Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme." (Surah 8:36-)
            "Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given [Jews and Christians]...until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued." (Surah 9:27-)
            "Muhammad is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another." (Surah 48:29)
            Sura 47-4: “When you meet the unbelievers, strike off their heads; then when you have made wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives”

            Additional Notes:

            Other than the fact that Muslims haven't killed every non-Muslim under their domain, there is very little else that they can point to as proof that theirs is a peaceful, tolerant religion. Few verses in the Qur'an can be construed to fit the contemporary virtues of religious tolerance and universal brotherhood. Those that do are earlier "Meccan" verses that are obviously abrogated by later ones. Small wonder that Muslim apologists spend a lot of time speaking of the "risks" of trying to interpret the Qur'an without their "assistance."

            Far from being mere history or theological construct, the violent verses of the Qur'an have played a key role in actual massacre and genocide. This includes the brutal slaughter of tens of millions of Hindus for five centuries beginning around 1000 AD with Mahmud of Ghazni's bloody conquest, including the massacre of those who defending their temples from destruction. Buddhism was very nearly wiped off the Indian subcontinent. Judaism and Christianity met the same fate (albeit more slowly) in areas conquered by Muslim armies, including the Middle East, North Africa and parts of Europe, including today's Turkey. Zoroastrianism, the ancient religion of a proud Persian people is despised by Muslims and barely survives in modern Iran.

            So ingrained is violence in the religion that Islam has never really stopped being at war, either with other religions or with itself.

            Muhammad was a military leader, laying siege to towns, massacring the men, raping their women, enslaving their children, and taking what was once the property of others for his own. On several occasions he rejected offers of surrender from the besieged inhabitants and killed those whom he could take prisoner. He inspired his followers to battle even when they did not feel it was right to fight, promising them slaves and booty if they did and threatening them with Hell if they did not. Muhammad allowed his men to rape traumatized women captured in battle.

            It is important to emphasize that Muslim armies waged aggressive campaigns, and it was the companions of Muhammad who made the most dramatic military gains in the decades following his death. The principle set in motion early on was that the civilian population of a town was to be destroyed (ie. men executed, women and children taken as slaves) if they defended themselves. Although modern Muslim apologists often claim that Islam only attacked in self-defense, this is not only an oxymoron, but it is flatly contradicted by the accounts of Muslim historians and others going back to the time of Muhammad.

            ~~~~~~~~~~~~

            Still thinking we have nothing to fear....???

            Ramadan 2010 Scorecard, Day 7

            In the name of The Religion of Peace:
            Terror Attacks - 32
            Dead Bodies - 148

            In the name of All Other Religions - 0

            See details at: List of Islamic Terror Attacks For the Past 2 Months
            http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

            2010.08.17 (Baghdad, Iraq) - Over sixty young Iraqis lining up for work are senselessly cut to shreds by a Shahid suicide nail-bomber.
            2010.08.17 (North Ossetia, Russia) - Two people are dead and twenty-three others injured in a suicide attack and separate cafe bombing.
            2010.08.16 (Heart, Afghanistan) - Three women and a child are among five civilians killed by a Taliban bomb attack on their car.
            2010.08.16 (Ghazni, Afghanistan) - A remote-controlled bomb on a bridge takes out two civilians.
            2010.08.16 (Muqdadiya, Iraq) - Four Iranian pilgrims on a bus are targeted and killed by Sunni bombers. Women and children are among the victims.
            2010.08.16 (Mogadishu, Somalia) - Nine refugees are killed when al-Shabaab Islamists attack a displaced persons camp.

            "O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you,
            and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty" Qur'an, Sura 9:123

            Why on EARTH would anyone question the "need" for a mosque near the 9-11 attack site in NYC....???

            It's only islam, the religion of pieces.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 5:48 pm on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            Rob123 Posts: 6595

            Good afternoon,


            Shortly after taking office, I put forward a plan to end the war in Iraq responsibly. Today, I'm pleased to report that -- thanks to the extraordinary service of our troops and civilians in Iraq -- our combat mission will end this month, and we will complete a substantial drawdown of our troops.

            Over the last 18 months, over 90,000 U.S. troops have left Iraq. By the end of this month, 50,000 troops will be serving in Iraq. As Iraqi Security Forces take responsibility for securing their country, our troops will move to an advise-and-assist role. And, consistent with our agreement with the Iraqi government, all of our troops will be out of Iraq by the end of next year. Meanwhile, we will continue to build a strong partnership with the Iraqi people with an increased civilian commitment and diplomatic effort.

            A few weeks ago, men and women from one of the most deployed brigades in the U.S. Army, the 2nd Brigade Combat Team, 10th Mountain Division, returned home from Iraq. The Vice President and Dr. Jill Biden were at Fort Drum to welcome the veterans home and spoke about their personal experiences as a military family:

            [http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2010/08/18/video-vice-president-and-dr-biden-welcome-troops-home-iraq?utm_source=email73&utm_medium=image&utm_campaign=iraq] Our commitment to our troops doesn't end once they come home -- it's only the beginning. Part of ending a war responsibly is meeting our responsibility to the men and women who have fought it. Our troops and their families have made tremendous sacrifices to keep our nation safe and secure, and as a nation we have a moral obligation to serve our veterans as well as they have served us.

            That's why we're building a 21st century Department of Veterans Affairs. We've made one of the largest percentage increase in the VA’s budget in 30 years, and we're dramatically increasing funding for veterans' health across the board. In particular, we're delivering unprecedented resources to treat signature wounds of today's wars—Traumatic Brain Injury and Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder.

            Our sacred trust to take care of our veterans goes beyond simply healing the wounds incurred in battle. We must ensure that when our veterans leave the Armed Forces, they have the opportunities they need to further their education and support their families. Through the Post-9/11 GI Bill, some 300,000 veterans and families members have pursued a college degree. Others are taking advantage of job training and placement programs.

            My Administration will continue to do our part to support the brave men and women in uniform that have sacrificed so much. But supporting our troops and their families is not just the job of the Federal Government; it's the responsibility of all Americans.

            As we mark this milestone in the Iraq war and our troops continue to move out of Iraq, I hope you'll join me in thanking them, and all of our troops and military families, for their service.

            Sincerely,
            President Barack Obama

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 5:25 pm on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "JB. Communism is better than our democracy. Anyone who believes otherwise is a fool."

            No WONDER you're so happy with O'Blamer.

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 5:08 pm on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1563

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ib9rofXQl6w

            Three things about Islam.
            Interesting.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 3:02 pm on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            Rob123 Posts: 6595

            Remember, Bronco, ya can't even get a Quark to pass through his head, let alone a notion as big as yours. Think of poor Descarte, riding day and night towards Amsterdam, the Dominican Dogma brutes close on his tail and wanting his head, and he really wants to stop and discuss rationally but knows oh so well that the best he can do is feed his horse some exlax and hope they slip and fall on the trail, forever.

             
          • Bronco posted at 2:44 pm on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            JB. Communism is better than our democracy. Anyone who believes otherwise is a fool.

            OK, that said...I am not a communist nor did I defend communism. See how your logic works?

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 2:31 pm on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "Maybe it is his way of attempting humor. To me it's hateful, tasteless, and very low class."

            Why....???

            I don't hate you because you're gay.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 2:15 pm on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "JB, et al, you defend the bible like it was written by gGod hHimself."

            I see.

            Well, first.....let's see you QUOTE the remarks I made to that effect. I don't recall ever even MENTIONING the bible as something "I defend".

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 2:10 pm on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "jennydoe: if two-thirds of us are behind the atheist view"

            In your case, I'm not even sure that 2/3 is all there.

             
          • Bronco posted at 1:57 pm on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            HTC, your MO seems to be overwhelming the room with multiple and lengthy posts then challenging the opposition to find proof that you didn't say what you said. I don't have that much time. Let's wipe the slate for now. But if and when you defend Christianity, be prepared to suffer the slings and arrows from a more informed and enlightened perspective of non-Christians.

            Should I defend communism would I be called a communist? You're GD right I will.
            I don't even have to defend anything yet JB has made several attempts to paint me as gay, even questioned Rob's spending time with his grandkids as something predatory. You want to put an end to evil why don't you attend to your buddy-in-dogma?

            Maybe it is his way of attempting humor. To me it's hateful, tasteless, and very low class.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 12:48 pm on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9897

            Bronco: Get real. If that's how you see it may I prescribe an anti-depressant AND something to help you with delusion and paranoia? You make assumptions and false conclusions based on those assumptions. Then you start a vicious attack on Liberals...again.
            -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            That's funny, Bronco.

            You remind me of a character I once arrested and put into protective custody until the guys in the white coats could come and take him back to the mental hospital.

            This particular fellow thought he was a psychiatrist and that the rest of society was filled with paranoid psychotics who were out to get him because he knew they were mentally ill and needed to be institutionalized.

            Just like this fellow, you delusionally project your own problems onto the rest of the world. I can't really get angry with you because you're obviously sick and provide so much comedic relief as well.

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 12:47 pm on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1563

            Watery eyes of the last sighing seconds,
            blue reflections mute and dim
            beckon tearful child of wonder
            to repentance of the sin.
            And the blind and lusty lovers
            of the great eternal lie
            go on believing nothing
            since something has to die.
            And the ape's curiosity --
            money power wins,
            and the yellow soft mountains move under him.

            I'm with you L.E.M.
            though it's a shame that it had to be you.
            The mother ship is just a blip
            from your trip made for two.
            I'm with you boys, so please employ just a little extra care.
            It's on my mind I'm left behind
            when I should have been there.
            Walking with you.

            And the limp face hungry viewers
            fight to fasten with their eyes
            like the man hung from the trapeze --
            whose fall will satisfy.
            And congratulate each other
            on their rare and wondrous deed
            That their begrudged money bought
            to sow the monkey's seed.
            And the yellow soft mountains
            they grow very still
            witness as intrusion the humanoid thrill.

            Sorry so many lyrics, there in my head, and seem to be apropos to some of the recent posts.

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 12:39 pm on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1563

            Rob, That video was hilarious!! Remember, if you are a corporation you now have an equal right to buy votes from each Senator, Congressman, President, and most other politicians. America, what a wonderful place to shop.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 11:39 am on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            Rob123 Posts: 6595

            Here's some Democracy at Work.....Not a member, mind you, but I do try to stay in touch with the whole spectrum. Personally, I don't think Unions or Corporations should be throwing money into the political arena.

            http://TargetBoycott.org?rc=em&r_by=

            http://TargetBoycott.org?rc=em&r_by=

             
          • Bronco posted at 11:20 am on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            JB, those were two different posts, 12 hours apart. That's more propaganda you're a spewin'.

            HTC, be nicer. You said, "I have defended the true history of our Founders' religious beliefs and how those beliefs guided their thinking about liberty, human rights, etc. and I have defended those who believe in a God against malicious, condescending and spiteful attacks from the likes of you and your liberal bretheren."

            Get real. If that's how you see it may I prescribe an anti-depressant AND something to help you with delusion and paranoia? You make assumptions and false conclusions based on those assumptions. Then you start a vicious attack on Liberals...again.

            Center yourself, man. You're losing it.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 11:12 am on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9897

            Bronco: HTC, JB, et al, you defend the bible like it was written by gGod hHimself.
            -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            I can't speak for JB and I don't need to, for he does a more than adequate job speaking for himself.

            As for me, let me first say that it gets really annoying having to constantly defend myself again the never ending fallacious conclusions you liberals keep coming up with about what I've supposedly said. It's almost like none of you knows how to read with actual comprehension.

            I have never claimed that the bible "was written by gGod hHimself." I have never said that I embrace the book nor that I live my life by it.

            What I have said about it is:

            (1) I have read it twice.

            (2) That you should not attempt to use it to justify abortion for you must twist its meaning to do so.

            (3) Most of the Founders had read much of it and many quoted from it, especially where the teachings of Jesus were concerned.

            I defy you to point out where I've said more than that about it.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 10:55 am on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            "Make Sense" an indication that you aren't.....hello?

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 10:49 am on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9897

            jennydoe: if two-thirds of us are behind the atheist view
            and one-third is pro-christian, but not christians themselves, have not the atheist won?
            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            When most of mankind believed that the earth was flat and the sun revolved around the earth, did they win?

             
          • Bronco posted at 10:46 am on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            HTC, JB, et al, you defend the bible like it was written by gGod hHimself. I find it impossible to believe that instructions from a Transcendent Beyond-Brilliant Creator Of Us All would include ostracizing the physically disabled, setting tax guidelines for masters on how hard they're allowed to beat their slaves, and authorizing all the inconsistent passages-the cruel and the compassionate-about women. As for the plausibility that man could have come up with such instructions...well, when it comes to humans, prejudice, brutality, and inconsistencies are the norm.

            Besides, why would an Omniscient Wisdom be so fallible as to make decisions He repeatedly ends up regretting?

            Then you have most of the stories in the bible that were taken from older religions and legends. Borrowed, if you will. Then there are the scientifically inaccurate references to nature because ignorant humans wrote these tales. The bible states that the Earth orbits the sun, that the moon generates its own light, that the Earth doesn't move, that the Earth is flat, and that the starts are so tiny that a trillion could fit on our planet, that Satan's tail will sweep a third of them down to the Earth's surface.

            That not only proves that Judeo/Christianity is a man-made religion, it also proves that anyone who embraces religious dogma probably spends more time selecting and buying a car than they do choosing the One True Path to take to Eternal Salvation.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 10:45 am on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9897

            Rebel Rouser: Very sad story HTC, sorry you had to witness such violence.
            ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            This incident happened just 6 months into my first year as a cop. I was completely unprepared for this kind of raw violence done to someone one supposedly loved. While I knew that such violence was part of the real world, I'd never seen it up close and personal before. I barely slept for a couple of days afterwards and questioned whether I wanted to continue in law enforcement. I felt many of the same emotions again when I went into detail about the incident in this morning's post. I again wondered what happened to those kids and how they turned out.

            As part of my decision to continue in law enforcement at that point, I decided to also seek training as an EMT so that I could render assistance to those in need and not just reactively deal with the "bad guys" of this world. It was my hope that, in saving lives also, I would not lose my own humanity by becoming desensitized to the plight of others. I eventually even saved the lives of a couple of felons that had been involved in a shootout with officers.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 10:34 am on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9897

            Rebel Rouser: BTW, you also apparently didn't read this in my post: "or prove it exists by any other means". Yes there are things out there we do not know yet, and when new things are discovered (and proven to be real) we can then accept or reject based on fact, not fiction (or emotion).

            HTC: No, I didn't miss that part of your post. It is you that missed my point which was that that concept of brain waves was laughed at by many scientists until eventually a technology was developed that proved their existence. They committed the major logic blunder of believing that the absence of evidence (until the EEG came along) was evidence of absence. The same mistake that you make in your approach to "reality".

            You make another major mistake as well and that is believing that all that is knowable is knowable via the scientific method. We already know that isn't true thanks to the fields of astro-physics and quantum mechanics where the vast majority of research is strictly theoretical due to the impossibility of intergalactic space travel and of generating power levels in our particle accelerators which would be capable of discovering new sub-atomic particles. The scale of the universe vastly exceeds our science's ability to "bring it into the lab."

            Which reminds me - many of those that first speculated about the existence of subatomic particles were mocked and ridiculed as well.

            If I may use one of Rob's favorite sayings: "Think outside the box."

            Rebel Rouser: Neither of you two are man enough to stand up and say you are Christian, yet you defend it vehemently, why? Oh I know, "yer either with us, or agin us!", that's just great.

            HTC: Now why would I admit to something I am not? The liberal's capacity to rush to all kinds of outrageous and unfounded conclusions never ceases to amaze me!

            I have defended the true history of our Founders' religious beliefs and how those beliefs guided their thinking about liberty, human rights, etc. and I have defended those who believe in a God against malicious, condescending and spiteful attacks from the likes of you and your liberal bretheren.

            I have even stated twice that I do believe in a Creator but that, like Jefferson, I do not attempt to define that Creator nor do I anthropomorphize it.

            Yet, in spite of those clear statements of my personal beliefs, you come up with this garbage of your own. The tangled mess that is the liberal mind is unfathomable.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 10:33 am on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "JB, make sense," Bronco.

            "Excellent post, clear, responsive, heartfelt and true, " Rebel.

            Two down, patiently waiting for the REST of you to wake up.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 10:29 am on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "JBSTONE posted at 9:53 am on Wed, Aug 18, 2010........Excellent post, clear, responsive, heartfelt and true, (except I'm not a jerk), thanks."

            Let's recall that you accused me of some kind of cowardice because you PRESUMED I didn't measure up to some imaginary standard of liberal excellence proclaimed by you.....which is the REASON I made the post.

            It also serves the purpose of demonstrating that people CAN discuss various religions and their adherents without resorting to gutter ball accusations in a pitched God hating frenzy.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 10:11 am on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            I think this is a great bumper sticker...

            http://thinkprogress.org/2010/08/18/allen-west-islam/

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 10:08 am on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1563

            JBSTONE posted at 9:53 am on Wed, Aug 18, 2010........Excellent post, clear, responsive, heartfelt and true, (except I'm not a jerk), thanks.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 10:01 am on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            if two-thirds of us are behind the atheist view
            and one-third is pro-christian, but not christians themselves, have not the atheist won?

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 9:53 am on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "Neither of you two are man enough to stand up and say you are Christian, yet you defend it vehemently, why? Oh I know, "yer either with us, or agin us!", that's just great. "

            No. As I have said I don't PROFESS to be "a Christian" and there are several reasons. One is that jerks like you immediately jump to the fore and start screaming all sorts of nonsense when they even SEE the term. They pick and choose the most extreme examples of Christian fundamentalism and outright wack jobs and proceed to "prove" that "ALL Christians" do this or that which couldn't be farther from the truth. I simply don't enjoy listening to those spittle filled tirades by unkempt dastardly individuals in their OWN right.

            Secondly, I am NOT out to proselytize or "convert". I never say, "You HAVE TO BE like me." Which is NOT to say I don't ascribe to true Christian values and precepts. I studied Eastern religions at one point and have to say some of THOSE religions have a lot of good in them as well.

            I have met good and bad examples of humanity in ALL walks of life and various religious and non-religious settings. That's about the only sweeping generalization I care to make on the topic.

            Lastly, I don't and WON'T ever consider myself to be any sort of match to the sort of person Jesus was by all accounts. I think casting myself in that light is overly presumptuous and ultimately dangerous.

            Do I strive to be a "good" person....???

            Yes.

            Do I think everyone has to be a Christian in order to lead productive lives and be a positive effect on the world around them.....???

            Certainly NOT.

            What I WILL fight for, however is a individual's right to choose and practice whatever religion they so desire and I judge them not by how "odd" or unconventional their rituals or whatever "most people" think of them.....I judge them by their ACTS toward others in their daily lives. The same thing goes for self-professed Christians. That's all you really have in this world.

            I draw the line at Satanism which is obviously NOT directed at any sort of good or God in the context that I use the term. I also have serious misgivings about the muslim "faith". Although I have met several decent individuals who were muslims and even had some as clients in commercial real estate, there's some pretty hateful stuff in the Koran which we all know is being acted out upon much too frequently lately. I can unequivocally state that I think Sharia Law is pure barbarism in its finest form and that a world wide Caliphate would be an unmitigated disaster the scale and nature of which has been heretofore unseen on this planet.

            When I say I try to be a "good" person, be aware that I don't consider bowing down to liberal abuses as anything I'm "required" to do and in fact is anathema to my continued enjoyment of my remaining time on this earth. Letting people run all over crapping on what's good in this world is NOT something I will ever abide by, not matter HOW much whining is associated with it.

            So, in order to be exceedingly clear on the matter, I don't present myself as an example of what being a Christian might be in its ultimate form because I don't wish to put up with the incessant and highly presumptive horsesh*t that comes out of the likes of you liberals when the topic comes up. Secondly, as I previously explained....it's a mighty big claim to have made so I would rather not presume to consider myself as being totally successful when it comes to conducting myself properly in every little detail of my existence.

            Which is not to say in any way, shape or form that I will sit by idly when utterly outrageous and dead minded statements are presented as the "truth".

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 9:27 am on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1563

            "So I devised this little test ("trap", if you will) and caught a couple of rats."....OH, OH, MY Gosh, you sir are so devious and intellectually superior! I feel so trapped AND violated, ha, ha, haaaaaaaaa.

            Very sad story HTC, sorry you had to witness such violence. BTW, atheists do not hold the the rights to morality just as Christians are not always Christ like. My point was: Most Atheists don't get themselves all worked up into a foaming out of the mouth religious fervor, talking in tongues, rolling on the floor, etc., etc. (unless there's Ganja).

             
          • Rob123 posted at 9:24 am on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            Rob123 Posts: 6595

            Now JB, that wasn't very nice. And Steve's version is a lot more fun than having One Pharaoh at a time passing certain tests then flying up to Orion's Belt. That wasn't very democratic and equal, huh?
            Keep that Roundup Ready noggin working, your a hoot.

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 9:14 am on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1563

            "Please point out the LOVE in that screed.".....Please point out the hatred.

            Also, since you are NOT claiming to believe, then this was NOT directed at you, peace.

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 9:12 am on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1563

            "a bunch of ignorant, arrogant jerks."....I'm sure this is exactly how that "genius" felt after his or her discovery.

            BTW, you also apparently didn't read this in my post: "or prove it exists by any other means". Yes there are things out there we do not know yet, and when new things are discovered (and proven to be real) we can then accept or reject based on fact, not fiction (or emotion).

            Neither of you two are man enough to stand up and say you are Christian, yet you defend it vehemently, why? Oh I know, "yer either with us, or agin us!", that's just great.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 8:48 am on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "do not deceive yourselves into believing that all that is real and that exists can be known via the scientific method. That belief is a major leap of faith and a religion unto itself."

            Oh...man.....don't even get me STARTED on astrophysics. They can't even agree which one of their fantasies reigns supreme....it's like the tower of babel was built by NASA. It's as if it was all dreamed up by some guy slumped over in a wheel chair so it MUST be true and unassailable.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 8:42 am on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            Since the topic of the Founders and the Constitution has been abandoned for a moment......

            Here's a thread that's been going on a Canadian site about THEIR socialized medicine wonders for all you who suckle at O'Blamer's teat praying that we have been saved and now will have the wonders for ourselves and be "just like Canada"......yay....!!!

            http://www.freedominion.com.pa/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=73939

            And, before some nitwit goes off about how "distorted" the views are, please be aware that the information largely comes from Canada's own lame stream media which is WAY more liberal slanted than our own on the average. The rest is personal stories.

            The thread is now three and a half years old, so you can ALSO can the "it's just an isolated incident" dodge.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 8:40 am on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            Hate? Love? Statement of fact.
            Emotion - seems alot of people are judging the so-called mosque on emotion.
            Not intellect, Not Logic, pure emotion.
            There is no outward projection of hate or of love in RR's statement.
            Just fact.

            Meds, take them.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 8:30 am on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "hatred is NOT part of the process of not believing in gGod. We are just not as easily lead as the sheep who follow along blindly, that's all. No hatred involved, see?"

            Oh, REALLY...??? Perhaps you "didn't really mean it" when you said:

            "If you are one of those who believe, deep down in your heart or mind, that there is an omnipotent being (somewhere out there) watching, waiting, recording your every thought, desire, and movement, then you are psychotic and living a lie! Don't hoist your fable induced, imaginary mental disorder on the rest of us, who understand that you are, in fact, living on the edge of insanity, by harboring this make-believe world"

            Please point out the LOVE in that screed.

            Or maybe you're lying now....???

            Imagine that.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:28 am on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9897

            Rebel Rouser, Rob, Bronco, Jennydoe, et al,

            There are many things which science has discovered and many more mysteries it has yet to uncover.

            But do not deceive yourselves into believing that all that is real and that exists can be known via the scientific method. That belief is a major leap of faith and a religion unto itself.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:24 am on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9897

            Rebel Rouser: If you can't see it, feel it, hear it, taste it, sense it, or prove it exists by any other means, then it must not be real.
            -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            That's why the early researchers into brain function were laughed off the stage when they suggested the existence of brain waves.

            Then some genius invented the EEG and proved the naysayers to be a bunch of ignorant, arrogant jerks.

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 8:09 am on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1563

            Hey you guys, just because someone doesn't believe in gGod doesn't mean they HATE god (or people who choose to believe in gGod) it just means WE don't believe in it. If you can't see it, feel it, hear it, taste it, sense it, or prove it exists by any other means, then it must not be real. If any person tried to present gGods existence (with a Bibles worth of proof) in today's science/theology class to support a theory for gGods existence they would be laughed out of the building. Back to my point, hatred is NOT part of the process of not believing in gGod. We are just not as easily lead as the sheep who follow along blindly, that's all. No hatred involved, see?
            Maybe we should all pull out our old Bibles, blow the dust off of them, and start talking about what the he// it actually says (using modern language techniques), NOT, ha, ha.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 8:02 am on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "It would have been a real-time test on my Self control."

            "Self control".....???

            Now, THERE's the pot calling the kettle a xylophone. When have YOU ever demonstrated any form of "self control" on this forum....???

            Is your story meant to stir up MORE of your stock in trade hatred by inferring he hit the little girl on purpose...??? I suppose our angst is supposed to be enhanced because he is a vile COP.....oh, my Gawd. Please explain how many decades of police work on city streets are required before one is a proficient off road vehicle driver.

            I don't suppose it occurred to you that YOU are least culpable for putting a totally inexperienced rider on a powerful motor toy in the presence of little children and fail to see the incident for the bone headed maneuver that YOU facilitated.....???

            Oh, that's RIGHT. You're a devoted liberal which means you are exempted from any form of personal responsibility when you see an opportunity to blame everything bad in the world on someone else.

            I forgot.

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 7:54 am on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1563

            The devil went down to Georgia, he was looking for a soul to steal.
            He was in a bind 'cos he was way behind: he was willin' to make a deal.
            When he came across this young man sawin' on a fiddle and playin' it hot.
            And the devil jumped upon a hickory stump and said: "Boy let me tell you what:
            "I bet you didn't know it, but I'm a fiddle player too.
            "And if you'd care to take a dare, I'll make a bet with you.
            "Now you play a pretty good fiddle, boy, but give the devil his due:
            "I bet a fiddle of gold against your soul, 'cos I think I'm better than you."
            The boy said: "My name's Johnny and it might be a sin,
            "But I'll take your bet, your gonna regret, 'cos I'm the best that's ever been."

            Johnny you rosin up your bow and play your fiddle hard.
            'Cos hells broke loose in Georgia and the devil deals the cards.
            And if you win you get this shiny fiddle made of gold.
            But if you lose, the devil gets your soul.

            The devil opened up his case and he said: "I'll start this show."
            And fire flew from his fingertips as he rosined up his bow.
            And he pulled the bow across his strings and it made an evil hiss.
            Then a band of demons joined in and it sounded something like this.
            When the devil finished, Johnny said: "Well you're pretty good ol' son.
            "But sit down in that chair, right there, and let me show you how its done."

            Fire on the mountain, run boys, run.
            The devil's in the house of the risin' sun.
            Chicken in the bread pan, pickin' out dough.
            "Granny, does your dog bite?"
            "No, child, no."

            The devil bowed his head because he knew that he'd been beat.
            He laid that golden fiddle on the ground at Johnny's feet.
            Johnny said: "Devil just come on back if you ever want to try again.
            "I told you once, you son of a gun, I'm the best that's ever been."

            And he played fire on the mountain, run boys, run.
            The devil's in the house of the risin' sun.
            Chicken in the bread pan, now they're pickin' out dough.
            "Granny, will your dog bite?"
            "No, child, no."

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 7:40 am on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9897

            Rob: Speaking of Self control, reading HTC's description of tasing someone on pcp and enjoying the agony of a psychotic break, it's obvious that behind his school learned logic lies a mean, angry, little boy. The Republican Right is filled with such folks. Buyer beware!
            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            I didn't say anything about enjoying it, did I? And like a typical liberal, you assumed you knew everything there was to know about that situation and me from a mere two sentences!

            I was reminded of this case when RR talked about the "holy rollers" he once saw because RR said he'd never seen an atheist do that. I knew this guy that was tased that night was an avowed atheist because he'd appeared at many city council meetings trying to prevent the usual Christmas Manger display from being put up each December and also had written many letters to the editor attacking Christians and Jews.

            Here's the additional detail you didn't know:

            The perp was a spousal abuser as well and had previously put his wife in the hospital two or three times and beat her up pretty badly on several other occasions. This was back in the day before laws that allowed us to press charges against a scum bag like that whether or not she was willing to do so.

            Each time he beat her up, she swore to us that she'd press charges when she got out of the hospital but she never did and, since we could only hold him for 72 hours without charging him, we'd have to let him go even though we knew we'd be there again soon and that one day he'd likely kill her.

            On the day of the incident, he'd been drinking heavily and smoking marijuana which he himself laced with PCP. He had also beat up his wife very badly and stabbed her multiple times. She later died at the hospital.

            Whereas in the past, he'd almost always be gone from the home by the time we got there, this time he was still at the home and taunting the officers from the front porch as he hovered over her body. The paramedics could see her on the porch but couldn't get to her as she lay there bleeding.

            I responded as backup and, when I got there, two officers were being treated by the paramedics, one of them with a broken nose that he's suffered as they'd tried to subdue the big brute so the paramedics could get to his wife. Two other officers had tased him just as I arrived and a third, who got to the scene just before me, strode up and tased him too because the perp was still on his feet and struggling to get to the officers.

            The addition of the third taser was finally enough to bring the PCP-fueled hulk to the ground where he finally remained, exhausted, handcuffed and hobbled.

            I was only a spectator at this incident and took no delight in it whatsoever. In fact, the one thing I remember feeling to this day was being overwhelmed by seeing his wife's body on the porch, her blood running down the front porch's fascia and thinking to myself: "The SOB's finally killed her. Why wouldn't she listen to us and press charges? Why didn't she leave him? Now who's going to take care of the kids and who can possibly shield them from this trauma?"

            Yes, I'm really sure that there wasn't any "enjoyment" in my heart that night.

            Now that you know the remaining details, I'll 'fess up. I almost included much of this detail initially because the incident also spoke to RR's and others' claims that atheists and agnostics were generally better people and of higher moral character than Christians.

            But then it occurred to me that, missing these salient details, the liberals in the bunch would likely jump to conclusions, as they always do, and immediately assume he was a nice guy on a bad trip and I was a sadistic SOB.

            So I devised this little test ("trap", if you will) and caught a couple of rats.

            Thanks, Rob and Rebel Rouser, for not disappointing me and for proving my point so exquisitely. That all too common liberal rush to judgment and self-righteous hypocrisy is always there, ready to pounce at a moments notice at anything or anyone that you dislike.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 1:17 am on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            Rob123 Posts: 6595

            HTC: "Well, I guess since Harry Reid and many other Democrats are joining in opposition to this mosque, the GOP must be right on this issue."

            When asked "Should a Mosque be built at Ground Zero?", 70% of Americans said "NO!". Of course, the question is wrong (it's 2 blocks away on a side street), and slanted (it's zoned commercial and private property), but hey! Who cares? With 70% of the public against it, as it has been presented, the Professional Political Class has overwhelmingly dumped the Constitution and is actively seeking reelection by pandering to the lowest common denominator. "We are all soldiers of Christ now!" roared the crowd in 1098 and 2010.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 12:56 am on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

            Rob123 Posts: 6595

            So, reading these fine messages from today, what did I learn? Well, hum?

            I did learn one thing, however. The in-laws from Chicago flew to town, to see the grandkids and fish. And after 30 years on the Chicago Police Force, from lowly Street Patrol to retiring Detective, with many chases through the crowded, urban streets over 30 years, well, put him out on a 4 wheeler with all the room in the world to manuever and he somehow hits the gas, bumps my (his) 5 year old grandaughter, and breaks her leg. Incredible. A hairline fracture above the growth plate, which if your going to break your leg, is about as good as it gets, but wow, I'm glad I didn't have HTC's taser with me. It would have been a real-time test on my Self control.

            Speaking of Self control, reading HTC's description of tasing someone on pcp and enjoying the agony of a psychotic break, it's obvious that behind his school learned logic lies a mean, angry, little boy. The Republican Right is filled with such folks. Buyer beware!

             
          • Bronco posted at 11:16 pm on Tue, Aug 17, 2010.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            HTC, you have placed yourself in the enviable position of applying much different standards to yourself as you do to others who oppose your beliefs. Typically conservative.

            JB, make sense. Post when you're straight.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 10:21 pm on Tue, Aug 17, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "I shall try to do better."

            Than what...???

            Me too.

            I will continue to expose these charlatans for what they are. They don't "respect" me....???

            Like they respect ANYONE, including themselves.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 10:11 pm on Tue, Aug 17, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            Well, quite the stand of confidence in their charade for the atheists, God haters, and low life clowns.

            I didn't even LOOK at the links provided by this gutter trash, Rebel. I was wrong about being able to take your attacks....they sicken me.

            Jenny, you aren't WORTH replying to.

            Bronco, the ONLY attention you get is when you attack people from a city thousands of miles away from where you supposedly live. I'd say it's sad, but actually ....you DESERVE the fate you have carved out for yourself.

            I have presented plain, unadulterated information and the sources from which it came and the three of you dismiss it out of hand....you CAN'T muster a lucid response to ANY topic.

            Rob....did you think I'd forgotten you....???

            You're right.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:58 pm on Tue, Aug 17, 2010.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9897

            Rebel Rouser: Sir, with all due respect, I do not want to know you.

            -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            That's OK, RR. You wouldn't be able to keep up anyway.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:51 pm on Tue, Aug 17, 2010.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9897

            Bronco: Gloves are off.
            HTC, JB, et al, why do you attack me personally when the discussion goes my way, when logic and fact impede your constant bleating, but post quotes about how desperate and foolish I must be when I seem to take a swipe at you? That is propaganda.

            HTC: "When the discussion goes your way?" You must be joking.

            First you say the Founders didn't believe in God, then you insist that you never said that. Then you claim that they were Deists when they clearly were not because they did believe in Providence (divine intervention.) After that, you insist that they probably would have been atheists if Darwin had lived a century earlier, in spite of clear evidence that many of them were already alarmed at what they regarded as the abuse of science in an effort to eliminate God from the classroom. As though those outrageous claims weren't enough, you went on to insist that they were "stoutly opposed to the Bible, and the teachings of Christianity in particular." Nevermind that most of them read the Bible and regarded the teachings of Christianity to be the basis of common law.

            After being cornered on each of these issues and recognizing that you had your pants down around your ankles, you responded with: "HTC, last week you accuse libs and the left of twisting the meaning of words and this week you're majoring in it. Take the week off. We'll miss you. Not."

            Yeah, that's civil, Bronco, for you would never engage in personal attack. And there's absolutely no way that I was playing word games with you and I challenge you to prove otherwise.

            Not content to insult only me, you move on to everyone of faith: "Let's face another truth: Religion is detrimental to society. It poisons everything. It has since man created god(s)."

            A fine demonstration of Bronco-style civility and tolerance! Yet you have the hypocrisy to suggest it is I who is fact-impaired, desperate and intolerant. Boy, are you delusional!

            Bronco: The weak-minded may swallow your swill but the future belongs to open-minded people unless that last-ditch effort historically employed by the ignorant and easily manipulated, namely violence, claims the upper hand. That's always been the trump card for conservative parties and it has never been successful for very long. Most folks are raised to be peaceful and compassionate. Your kind prey on people like that.

            HTC: Violence the trump card for conservatives? You are certainly no honest student of history for it is the intolerant left, full of national socialists and communists and largely embracing atheism that has killed more people than any other religion or political ideology. Once again, you make up your own facts. They 'feel' good, so you convince yourself they're true.

            Bronco: I give you my objective opinions and you cut me down. How noble and civil. You can't abide an opinion that differs from your own and your own opinions are inflexible and myopic. There's no wiggle room. You follow the next cow up the narrow chute and believe everything will be all right. But it's not all right.

            HTC: If it's "objective", it's not opinion. Opinion always has a subjective element to it. Maybe since you seem to be challenged where the meanings of words are concerned, that's why you perceive it as my problem.

            That said, I can abide an opinion that differs from my own when it involves an honest, albeit different interpretation of the same facts. As the old saying goes, we're all entitled to our own opinion but not our own facts.

            What I cannot abide is someone who vehemently repeats their opinion when the facts on the table clearly do not support that interpretation, all the while denying the facts as such or, recognizing their error, denies that they ever stated an opinion in conflict with the facts at hand. You seem to like both approaches when "the discussion is going your way."

            Bronco: What I said about the Ten Commandments is true. Yet you not only dismiss that, you have to ridicule me. You people are pathetic (to use HTC's phraseology). You act so self-righteous all the while insulting, ridiculing, desperately trying to find any support for your narrow beliefs to countermand fact and logic, and when that fails you twist logic like a wind chime in a class 3 hurricane. If your only counterpoint is to say "That's what Bronco said and everything Bronco says is stupid" then have at it. Any idiot can do that and it seems every idiot does.

            HTC: That's quite a bit of venting already. Feeling better yet?

            Bronco: Act like the people you think you are. Personally, I don't think you have either the presence of mind nor the courage to do so.
            Our side tries to engage in discussion here by using a touch f sarcasm, pointing out ironies and inconsistencies in your rationale. We do cross the line sometimes when we get frustrated but that's to be expected when we hear the sound of knuckles dragging in unison (lockstep) across the floor but we do not make it part and parcel of every post.

            HTC: More Bronco civility and tolerance.

            And please do document for me my "inconsistencies in my rationale." I am possibly one of the most logical and consistent people you'll ever run across. I guess it's the engineer in me.

            Bronco: Clean up your collective act. You have already lost plenty of ground, plenty of integrity. And you started out so well. Just for a day try to be objective in presenting your views. Check the personal insults at the door.

            HTC: You've already demonstrated that you know nothing about integrity and intellectual honesty, so why would I use you as an "integrity meter?" I don't give a flying 'F' what you think of me. You're just like most of the other liberals I've known: arrogant elitists who couldn't follow a logical argument if their lives depended on it, yet they regard themselves as the 'intelligentsia'.

            Bronco: Now you can either respond by using grade-school antics (Oh yeah? Well here's a post from the Left from two weeks ago and see? They used a bad word) or you can join us in an effort to make the room more enjoyable.

            HTC: "Make the room more enjoyable?" Yeah, right. That's liberal speak for "agree with me or shut up."

            Bronco: Your choice. (By the way, a finely crafted and humorous insult is allowable and welcome, as long as it's not too uncivil.)

            HTC: How's this:

            Question: How many liberals does it take to change a light bulb?

            Answer: It takes ten - nine to deny that darkness exists and one to hire a Republican to change it.

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 8:42 pm on Tue, Aug 17, 2010.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1563

            "I have. Of course, the jerking part stopped after we quit tasing him.", "Hey, Rob, considering how dark your world must be - why don't you just end it all and put yourself out of our misery.", "As I've said before, respect is something you earn, not something you're owed", Rebel Rouser, if you can't define your moral standards, you certainly can't live by them.", "Logically prove that there is no Creator.", "There's this little thing called the First Amendment which guarantees the free practice of religion.", "As a result of my considerable education in the sciences and the 'theory' of evolution, I did go through a phase where I was a staunch atheist, until I realized that.......", "it is far more intellectually honest to at least admit the possible existence of a Creator/God than to insist on his nonexistence in the absence of proof to that effect."

            Sir, with all due respect, I do not want to know you.

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 8:24 pm on Tue, Aug 17, 2010.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1563

            "One cannot sow the seeds of morality on unwilling soil" Bronco, does this mean there is no hope for HTC and JB? Their morality is only exists because they are afraid to go to Helena Handbasket. I however, have no fear, I will not be going to he// any time soon, thank you. Meanwhile, back to the blog: THAT was ONE awesome POST!!!! But really I thought you were just MONKEYING around.

            JB and HTC (or vice versa) will never understand your meaning. Ha, ha, haaaaaaa

             
          • Bronco posted at 7:55 pm on Tue, Aug 17, 2010.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            Frans De Waal’s take on morality and religion:


            Once this sensibility [kindness aimed at family and potential reciprocators] had come into existence, its range expanded. At some point, sympathy for others became a goal in itself: the centerpiece of human morality and an essential aspect of religion. Thus, Christianity urges us to love our neighbor as ourselves, clothe the naked, feed the poor, and tend the sick. It is good to realize, though, that in stressing kindness, religions are enforcing what is already part of our humanity. They are not turning human behavior around, only underlining pre-existing capacities. How could it be otherwise? One cannot sow the seeds of morality on unwilling soil … (p. 181).

            Modern religions are only a few thousand years old. It’s hard to imagine that human psychology was radically different before religions arose. It’s not that religion and culture don’t have a role to play, but the building blocks of morality clearly predate humanity. We recognize them in our primate relatives, with empathy being the most conspicuous in the bonobo and reciprocity in the chimpanzee. Moral rules tell us when and how to apply these tendencies, but the tendencies themselves have been in the works since time immemorial (p. 225).

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 7:27 pm on Tue, Aug 17, 2010.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9897

            jennydoe: HTC - perhaps I was being a bit too harsh when I said you were emulating good ol' JB. It is just that I have noticed an increase in your name calling....
            -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Thank you, jennydoe, and you're correct - I did step it up a bit recently and respond in kind after Rob, Bronco and Rebel Rouser continued to obfuscate, attack and belittle those who believe in God and refused to acknowledge that the majority of the Founders did believe in some kind of God and believed that our liberty and rights came from that Creator.

            I shall try to do better.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 7:20 pm on Tue, Aug 17, 2010.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9897

            Rebel Rouser: I have NEVER seen an atheist rolling around on the ground (in the straw) yammering some other world's gibberish, rolling eyes into the back of their heads, and jerking around all over the place, that's some good fun!!!
            ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            I have. Of course, the jerking part stopped after we quit tasing him.

            And he seemed a bit more normal the next day at his booking, after he'd come down from his PCP-laced MJ high.

             
          • Bronco posted at 7:04 pm on Tue, Aug 17, 2010.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            Rebel, too funny! The Johns nailed it.

            Here's the deal; we have Conservatives prepared to halve the nation over the sanctity of the Constitution, even our beloved editor has penned several opinions on the matter. Yet, when it comes down to the very First Amendment...oh, look how quick they back away.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 5:58 pm on Tue, Aug 17, 2010.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            I guess if you can successfully offend EVERYONE, you get paid a lot of money these days....???

            -------------
            I don't know, how much is your veteran's total income?

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 5:56 pm on Tue, Aug 17, 2010.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1563

            BTW, your cartoon was funny.

            Maybe not worth posting twice though.

            Reb

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 5:54 pm on Tue, Aug 17, 2010.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1563

            JB, you have to admit there is some really good humor in this religion stuff, huh? Have you ever been to a Southern Baptist revival tent? I laughed so hard I damned near wet myself. I have NEVER seen an atheist rolling around on the ground (in the straw) yammering some other world's gibberish, rolling eyes into the back of their heads, and jerking around all over the place, that's some good fun!!!

            This is for you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T99fUvuuYOg&feature=related

            Oh, I almost forgot this lady: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRirh4zTwig&feature=related

            Woo Hoo, now that's REAL!!!!!!! I always crack myself up!!

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 5:43 pm on Tue, Aug 17, 2010.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            "BJ-"

            How original and adult of you.

            As for the remainder of your lowbrow retort, I have NEVER .....not even ONCE......claimed to be a member of, a representative for, or an example of ANY religion. I merely asked why he was so vehement and whether he thought the first amendment still existed. I was just curious as to how he derived such an antagonistic and overly broad generalization regarding religion.

            And, as far as I can recall, YOU have never given a straightforward answer to any of even the simplest of questions I've asked of you without concocting it out of some sort of foppish nonsense.