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Cloward and Piven, immigration reform & ‘nothing left to lose’

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Posted: Saturday, February 2, 2013 7:00 pm

With apologies to Kris Kristofferson, “immigration reform” is just another phrase for “nothing left to lose,” and as Janis Joplin sang in her version of “Me and Bobby McGee,” “Nothing don’t mean nothing honey if it ain’t free.”

Let’s face it, whether you are talking about immigration reform by George W. Bush, immigration reform by John McCain, immigration reform by Barack Obama, or immigration reform by Marco Rubio, all you get is the same old “nothing left to lose.” And maybe, at long last, they are right — maybe we have sunk so low, there is nothing left to fight for.

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          Welcome to the discussion.

          197 comments:

          • hollyscott posted at 8:46 am on Sun, Feb 17, 2013.

            hollyscott Posts: 102

            go directly to NumbersUSA and take action - the real force behind stopping the insanity.

             
          • hollyscott posted at 9:42 am on Thu, Feb 14, 2013.

            hollyscott Posts: 102

            all of the media, talk and politics doesn't change the fact that American citizens do not want to give non-citizens their jobs and money. NumbersUSA is the force stopping this insanity - go to NumbersUSA and take action with millions of other Americans!

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 7:28 pm on Sat, Feb 9, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=RRJUtqwIung

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 6:49 pm on Sat, Feb 9, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            http://www.wetheworld.org/declaration.htm

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 6:14 pm on Sat, Feb 9, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            Will a good offense always prove be the best defense in the 21st century? Will the manifest destiny strategy of America's 'good-cop, bad-cop' police force prove to be profitable as we divide and conquer the entire planet like a 'global twinkie' at the expense of the middle class?

            Can anyone imagine a future society that could prevent future wars preemptively by recognizing and isolating individualism in youth at an earlier stage in life before they evolve into fascist leaders of military and industry?

            Can anyone imagine the constitutional power of a precognizant police force as in the science fiction novel "The Minority Report" by Philip K. Dick. The future Miranda rule would read: "You have the right to keep your thoughts to yourself, anything you think may and will be used against you."

            For Pete's sake, I hope more war is not our only option. It is sad that we cannot live by the rules of a Declaration of Interdependence in harmony with the universe.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 5:44 pm on Sat, Feb 9, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9901

            Rob123: And tell me of one Mature Economy that has ever kicked this bad habit?

            HTC: So, let's just race along to our own destruction along with them?

            Rob123: Explain how money, REASONABLY spent on Social Concerns and Infrastructure, circulates through an economy and has a multiplier effect; while money spent on War, outside of wages for the participants who spend it in the Real Economy, is money that ends up in a Dead End, with pennies on the dollar.....

            HTC: That's simply an unproven assumption with no real science behind it.

            "Multipliers" were first formalized by Richard Kahn, a student of John Maynard Keynes. They are very controversial among economists and hardly a proven concept. Furthermore, everyone produces their own multipliers in order to justify their own fiscal agenda. For example, the Obama administration assumes a multiplier of 1.6 for government purchases but a multiplier of only 1 for tax cuts, even though cuts have always led to an increase in GDP.

            Many economists have attempted to tease out the changes in GDP which can be attributed to tax cuts or 'stimulus' spending, rather than assuming certain multipliers are real as implemented in various economic models. They see economies as more dynamic and responding to cuts or spending increases differently as the nature of those economies evolve and as trade between regional and national economies change.

            These efforts at producing empirical multipliers have shown that multipliers are bigger in closed economies versus open ones because less of the fiscal stimulus (tax cuts or spending increases) flows out of the local economy due to imports. Multipliers also tended to be bigger in richer countries than in developing economies and higher in countries with low debt versus countries with high debt (like us). But interestingly, the range of multipliers being 'empirically' determined have been as broad as those made by various economic models.

            Many of these studies were done in very different times than those we face today and without the structural problems which now constrain our economy. Today's realities make much of this earlier research useless in trying to guide current fiscal policy.

            For example, even though interest rates are very low, they've had little stimulative effect on the private sector economy because most consumers were already too heavily in debt and reluctant to borrow more while lenders, post 2008 financial crisis, were more inclined to loan only to those who didn't need to borrow money.

            That kind of environment would tend to make tax cuts the preferred form of stimulus and would likely increase the mulitiplier effect of such cuts, especially generous cuts to the 'rich.'

            Furthermore, where capital investment is concerned, many emerging markets, especially in South America, are proving to be more attractive to investors due to their higher growth rates and far sounder fiscal health relative to our own. This fact would tend to lower the multiplier effect of some policies designed to stimulate capital investment.

            The point I'm trying to make here is that all of us, economists included, are largely flying blind when it comes to determining the effects of various fiscal stimulus measures in today's global economies. What we do know is that the policies of the past four years, now to be amplified over the next four years, if Obama gets his way, haven't worked and it's time for a change in direction.

            We need to try something else, such as permanent versus temporary tax cuts, reductions in deficit spending and the size and cost of government in general and significant reductions to the massive hidden regulatory 'tax' burden.

            But don't hold your breath waiting for the Democrats to ever climb on board for anything other than tax-and-spend which has been their mantra for 85+ years.

             
          • Pete posted at 5:31 pm on Sat, Feb 9, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Bronco posted at 12:57 pm on Sat, Feb 9, 2013

            "You're such an alarmist for being a tough guy and all."

            Tough has nothing to do with it. You're not alarmed because, after all, it's your fellow "progressives" proposing this legislation and they can ALWAYS be trusted to do the right thing......just like in Detroit, Chicago, NY, etc.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 5:12 pm on Sat, Feb 9, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9901

            Pete posted at 4:48 pm on Sat, Feb 9, 2013 [thumbup][thumbup]

             
          • Pete posted at 4:48 pm on Sat, Feb 9, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Rob123 posted at 9:40 am on Sat, Feb 9, 2013

            It all comes down to a person's definition of reasonable, be it social concerns or war. I think a return to original intent on both counts would be appropriate as would an understanding of the difference between "provide" and "promote".

            The broad-stroke idea that war/defense spending has no multiplier effect is also laughable - especially in the light of history. It would seem to me, that for you and I to argue (or even have the freedom to argue) the dispensation of our societal resources, (multiplied or otherwise) our society must remain in existence to begin with. Our founding fathers thankfully understood this principle and prioritized it in the constitution.

            I do think there is a valid argument to be had over what constitutes "defense" just as there is a valid argument to be had over the appropriate level of social spending, all under a framework of clearly recognized constitutional constraints and priorities. Of course all this is mute because we have already ceded the STATE bureacracy the authority to "interpret" the Constitution as it sees fit in order to feed its insatiable appetite for power and control. Complaints about "police actions" and "unconstitutional wars" ring hollow coming from those who looked the other way when the Constitution was manipulated to suit their vision of a "great society". My country right or wrong is wrong...whether it comes from the leftists defending redistribution of wealth or those who believe in manifest destiny.

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 3:38 pm on Sat, Feb 9, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            HighTechCowboy posted at 7:37 am on Sat, Feb 9, 2013.
            HTC-"Their accusations are simply what psychologists call "projection."

            IABD- You should listen more closely with to your psychologist, Monsieur HTC.

            http://www.wellsphere.com/mental-health-article/narcissist-s-endless-toxic-projections/1252706
            Narcissist's Endless Toxic Projections
            Posted Oct 14 2010 11:36pm
            By Linda Martinez-Lewi, Ph.D.

            When narcissists are not telling how perfect, brilliant, successful and wonderful they are, he or she obsesssively uses toxic projections to put you in your place. This is likely to occur when you don't mirror the narcissist perfectly. Even if you treat the narcissist with worshipful subservience he will find a way to criticize, demean and shame you. A projection is an unconscious defense mechanism that is used to eject intolerable feelings and thoughts, impulses and threatening sensations from themselves onto another person. The individual on the receiving end of one of these attacks can feel stung (like a bee attack) or psychologically assaulted (depending on the ferocity of the projection). Most people are completely unaware of the narcissist''s constant projections. When these individuals are exceedingly rude and cruel in this way, people make excuses for them, especially if they are highly successful and wield a lot of power. They make excuses:"Oh, that's the way Harry operates. It's a twist in his personality. Don't take it seriously." Some of those close to the narcissist, his faithful followers either ignore these cruelties or wonder why people can't see that this is silly banter, like a joke.

            Those living with narcissists---spouses and children in particular---are frequently the victims of these cruel psychological toxic projections.Many of those who are targeted believe that they are at fault not the narcissist. When a child is very young and the object of constant toxic projections, this can cause a negative sense of self unless the other parent or another family member recognizes the outright cruelty and harm that these projections create and counterbalance this pathology with their love, strength, solidity and empathy.
            Learn to deflect the narcissist's projections. First , recognize very early that an individual is a narcissist. This gives us an advantage. Maintain a safe psychological distance from his/her psychopathology. In some cases it is wise to not be alone with a narcissist because this is often the time when he or she will spring projections on you, one after the other. Learn to appreciate your healthy sense of self respect, psychological solidity and self confidence. Study every facet of the narcissistic personality disorder so you are prepared for all of their schemes, tricks, subterfuges and games. Detach from the drama of the narcissist's projections. These are not about you---they tell us about the pathological unconscious mind of the narcissist. To learn about every facet of the narcissistic personality, visit my website:
            www.thenarcissistinyourlife.com

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 2:09 pm on Sat, Feb 9, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            Ayn Rand on Native Americans:

            “”They didn't have any rights to the land, and there was no reason for anyone to grant them rights which they had not conceived and were not using. What was it that they were fighting for, when they opposed white men on this continent? For their wish to continue a primitive existence, their 'right' to keep part of the earth untouched, unused and not even as property, but just keep everybody out so that you will live practically like an animal, or a few caves above it. Any white person who brings the element of civilization has the right to take over this continent."

            From a Q and A session following her address to the graduating class of The United States Military Academy at West Point, New York, March 6, 1974 - found in Endgame: Resistance, by Derrick Jensen, Seven Stories Press, 2006, pg 220

            IABD- Native Americans helped early white settlers learn how to live off the land. Alaskan Eskimos are now helping the native people in Siberia relearn how to live off the land.

            http://www.loe.org/shows/segments.html?programID=00-P13-00020&segmentID=10

             
          • Bronco posted at 12:57 pm on Sat, Feb 9, 2013.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            Pete: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/02/08/gun-confiscation-bill-introduced-in-california-we-can-save-lives/
            I seem to remember these sort of draconian measures being pooh-poohed as never likely to happen by certain bloggers on this site...yet here we are. Thanks for helping pave the road to he//...
            --------------------------------
            You're such an alarmist for being a tough guy and all. Think of all the "introduced" bills over the past 30 years for a good laugh AND a reality check. Then cry about all the wasted time and money on those bills.
            Last year, over 4000 bills were introduced! While less than 75 passed.

            http://well-played-sir.blogspot.com/2013/01/republicans-start-year-off-with-typical.html

             
          • Bronco posted at 12:45 pm on Sat, Feb 9, 2013.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            bill39:
            I am glad democrat voters are so divided on the issue. You actually put the fear of getting voted out into democrat legislators. As you should, but dont, on many other issues.
            ------------------
            It's a mess, bill. But turn it around. Say you don't agree with your republican over-lards...and I'm sure you don't on all issues...in order to vote them out, who would be voted in?

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 12:27 pm on Sat, Feb 9, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            AYN RAND VS. JESUS
            May 27, 2011
            http://americanvaluesnetwork.org/2011/05/ayn-rand-vs-jesus-2/

            By: Rachel Johnson

            It’s a tried and true adage that politics makes for strange bedfellows. Often this can lead to creative collaborations and innovative problem solving that is laudable (and too rare) in politics. But there’s a sordid side to this reality as well, when strange bedfellows cross over into unholy alliances, and intellectual honesty and moral integrity are sacrificed for consolidation of power. That is what is happening right now within certain circles in the GOP with the resurgence in popularity of atheist philosopher and patron saint of selfishness Ayn Rand.

            The American Values Network (AVN) just released a video exposing Rand’s teachings and the influence she has had on prominent Republican leaders and conservative pundits. Paul Ryan, author of the Republican budget, cites Rand as the reason he got in to politics and has said that hers is the “kind of thinking that is sorely needed right now.” Sen. Rand Paul frequently cites Rand’s novels in committee hearings. Sen. Ron Johnson has called Atlas Shrugged his “foundation book.” Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh, and Fox News personalities have all also heaped on the praise for her. Here is the problem. For years GOP leaders have purposefully invoked the language of faith and moral values to justify their policies and court religious voters. Ayn Rand’s philosophy stands in direct contradiction to those values and the teachings of Jesus.

            It’s not just that Rand is an atheist who considers Christianity’s central narrative of the cross to be “monstrous” (the cross has been called foolishness before and will again). Rand advocates a morality of selfishness and a worldview based on individualism that is fundamentally incompatible with the teachings of Jesus. Where Jesus says, “love your neighbor as you love yourself,” Rand says, “love only those who deserve it.” Where Jesus says, “Give to any that asks of you,” Rand says, “I am challenging the moral code of altruism.” Instead of Jesus’ command to “feed my sheep,” in Rand’s world “men [are] perishing by their attempt to be their brothers’ keeper.” Rand herself has stated in no uncertain terms that one cannot follow her and Christ.

            In an attempt to hold together the disparate constituencies of social conservative Christians and libertarian Tea Partiers, Paul Ryan and other Republican leaders have attempted to create an unholy trinity of Ayn Rand, Jesus Christ, and the GOP. But, as the classic children’s song goes, “One of these things is not like the other. One of these things does not belong.” Nothing about the philosophy of Ayn Rand and the teaching of Jesus Christ is like the other. So the GOP must decide – who doesn’t belong? They can’t have both.

             
          • mooseberryinn posted at 9:42 am on Sat, Feb 9, 2013.

            mooseberryinn Posts: 2690

            State of the Union - predictions are running at about 1.3 lies per minute of words spoken. This is of course, a record prediction. Contact your friends in Las Vegas for more information.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 9:40 am on Sat, Feb 9, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6600

            HTC: "Our social spending has been growing far faster than the economy for several decades now and the total spent simply dwarfs that spent on all wars since the beginning of Johnson's "Great Society". It now represents at least $100T in unfunded liabilities and now threatens to destroy our economy and our children's futures.
            This is simply fact and inarguable except by those who seek to deny the truth for political reasons."
            ------------------------
            1)..And tell me of one Mature Economy that has ever kicked this bad habit?
            2.)..Explain how money, REASONABLY spent on Social Concerns and Infrastructure, circulates through an economy and has a multiplier effect; while money spent on War, outside of wages for the participants who spend it in the Real Economy, is money that ends up in a Dead End, with pennies on the dollar from a Scrap Yard and decades of spending on all the human collateral damage.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:13 am on Sat, Feb 9, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9901

            Rob123: As you know, any political system in deep doo-doo likes to paint One BIG boogeyman as the primary cause, and it's demise as the Real, Final Solution. It just ain't that simple, as I know you know....

            HTC: Ah, but it is that simple. You simply refuse to acknowledge it.

            Our social spending has been growing far faster than the economy for several decades now and the total spent simply dwarfs that spent on all wars since the beginning of Johnson's "Great Society". It now represents at least $100T in unfunded liabilities and now threatens to destroy our economy and our children's futures.

            This is simply fact and inarguable except by those who seek to deny the truth for political reasons.

            So, the "BIG boogeyman" is indeed the nanny state and the Democrats are its creator (with a little help at times from the GOP.)

            America has a spending problem and the bulk of that is entitlement spending. Most of America gets it as a recent poll found that 83% of Americans think Washington has a very serious over-spending problem and want Washington to make deep spending cuts, including in our various social programs.

            Obama pretends to have a mandate, in spite of the close popular vote, but doesn't realize or chooses to ignore that his mandate is to CUT.

            Rob123: After a 30 year career between your head office in Silicon Valley and your(?) factories in China, any lessons you would like to share with us concerning Macroeconomics, Cheap Imports, and Job Creation on the Home Front? Henry Ford was also a Right Winger, but at least he understood the need for a vibrant Middle Class to buy stuff from his factories, so he paid a living wage.

            HTC: Have you ever been directly involved in a manufacturing concern? I've spent most of my adult life in manufacturing and I can assure you that your understanding of Ford's success and the supposed cause of the decline of the middle class is naive at best.

            Let's start with Ford who began his company in 1903, free of any corporate or personal income taxes and of massive government regulation such as exists today. Given his challenges and many near failures, had he been faced with today's business climate, no one would have ever heard of a Ford automobile.

            Even his pay strategy for his worker was born out of simple economics. Ford's assembly line had incredible turnover and his training costs to train replacement workers were killing him. He doubled the going wage in order to retain his employees but that increase in wages was still substantially lower than what had been his high hiring and training costs.

            Ford Motor Company nearly died under FDR's New Deal and the high taxes FDR imposed on businesses and the 'rich.' Ford was the only automaker who refused to sign FDR's "Blue Eagle" Code for the auto industry. “I do not think that this country is ready to be treated like Russia...,” Ford wrote in his notebook. “

            Ford was actually paying his workers more than the Code required, but he would have had to submit to government and union control over much of his business and he refused to accept the socialization of his company. FDR didn't care that Ford's acceptance would have meant that Ford's workers would have then been subjected to a significant pay cut.

            Like most progressives, FDR's 'caring' for the little guy was all feigned.

            FDR locked Ford out of all government contracts which were considerable unde the New Deal and that seriously hurt Ford's revenues. He then enacted laws which subjected Ford and other manufacturers to unfair labor intrusions and massive fines for resisting this unconstitutional invasion of the private sector. Ford was ruined by these moves but was ultimately saved by the Supreme Court's striking down most of the key provisions of the New Deal.

            Ask anyone in manufacturing today and they'll tell you that the reason they offshore is because of our massive tax and regulatory burdens on business, combined with high energy prices and commodity prices.

            At the center of all of those problems is the federal government.

            Those who want a vibrant economy again with real job growth and wage growth need to recognize that their enemy is not business but the government itself.

            As long as workers fail to understand that and fail to vote for smaller government, less spending and lower taxes and regualtory burdens, this will be the new reality for them and their children.

            It really is that simple.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 7:37 am on Sat, Feb 9, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9901

            mooseberryinn: and....the regime press says....?

            HTC: We're still waiting to hear from them; fortunately, we're not hold our breath.

            The leadership failures which led to Benghazi are incredible and Obama's own failures in this are legion and contemptible. Instead of taking ownership and apologizing to the families and to America, this administration has engaged in one coverup after another as they've pretended to fire those involved.

            That is the ultimate insult added to injury and makes clear that Obama has no regard whatsoever for the families of the deceased.

            But still the Obamatons look the other way like the ignorant fools that they are while the MSM drones on about the right side of the aisle 'politicizing' the incident; as though getting to the truth and exposing the failures in leadership which led to those deaths is simply politics at its worst.

            That they would see it that way is understandable, since everything they do is driven by political considerations and not genuine regard for the people, the economy or the Constitution. Their accusations are simply what psychologists call "projection."

            Frickin' incredible!

             
          • mooseberryinn posted at 4:46 am on Sat, Feb 9, 2013.

            mooseberryinn Posts: 2690

            Obama's "Festival of Idiots" continues. Benghazi - best description heard to date - "A totally flaccid response". Best question - (unanswered) - where was Obama for 8+ hours during attack?
            Terrorism and the regime press - Under Bush - criticism of Guantanamo lock-up without "due process". Under King Obama? - Murder-at-will" via drones, per order of King Obama, and "selected" officials. and....the regime press says....? [beam]

             
          • Rob123 posted at 4:18 am on Sat, Feb 9, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6600

            HTC: I see I still give you too much credit relative to your ability to understand the real nature of our fiscal problems.
            --------------

            Now, now little tyrant. Don't lash out at me for merely pointing out the errors of your logic. Although the solutions to our macroeconomic problems remain above my pay scale, I did want to point out to you the slippery slope you are on relative to your "HighTechCowboy posted at 1:24 pm on Fri, Feb 8, 2013." post. As you know, any political system in deep doo-doo likes to paint One BIG boogeyman as the primary cause, and it's demise as the Real, Final Solution. It just ain't that simple, as I know you know, but sometimes you slide down, get lazy, and drag your knuckles with much cheering and approval from the crowd. At least try to elevate your Self to a position relative to Nietzsche's opening chapter in "Thus Spoke Zarathustra", or the lofty position of Ayn Rand's central thesis running through "Anthem".......

            P.S. "To blame this overspending on "the poor" is most appropriate since entitlement spending is now 70% of government spending and will grow to over 90% by the end of the decade (according to the CBO.)".....HighTechCowboy posted at 9:32 pm on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.
            After a 30 year career between your head office in Silicon Valley and your(?) factories in China, any lessons you would like to share with us concerning Macroeconomics, Cheap Imports, and Job Creation on the Home Front? Henry Ford was also a Right Winger, but at least he understood the need for a vibrant Middle Class to buy stuff from his factories, so he paid a living wage. He didn't run off shore, close factories, then flood Retail with a cheaper version and after a few decades wonder what went wrong. Of course, this late in the game, the saving of the American Worker just might be the 850-1050 PPM of particulates in China's air, and the cost of fixing it. The 1970's-80's all over again, for American Manufactures who ran off shore? Will they run back, is the question. One is still confronted with the stark reality of Average Daily Wage: China=$16.00 per day, with active wage inflation. U.S.=$116.00 per day, with active wage deflation.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 9:32 pm on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9901

            Rob123: So, that's why it is what it is! Here I thought it was some Central Banking thing, with ours sucking up Bonds and pumping money into the system at a rate that has people like RLS scratching their heads and wondering "What about Money supply & inflation? Why is everything still Flat?". I just didn't know what to tell them, until Now! "It's the Poor People!". Thanks, HTC.

            HTC: I see I still give you too much credit relative to your ability to understand the real nature of our fiscal problems.

            The Fed is a major part of the problem in that they're enabling the financing of massive amounts of federal deficit spending by directly buying Treasury bonds with money "printed out of thin air" (60% of the more recent auctions) and their buying toxic assets from banks who then use much of those funds to also buy "safe" Treasury bonds rather than use it for fresh lending in the private sector.

            Because of their monetary policy, the Fed has enabled massive growth within the public sector at the expense of the private sector, which is one big factor behind our pathetic job growth within the private sector. They've also enabled Obama and company to continue sidestepping the issue of their massive deficits due to gross overspending.

            To blame this overspending on "the poor" is most appropriate since entitlement spending is now 70% of government spending and will grow to over 90% by the end of the decade (according to the CBO.)

            Do try to keep up as this has been explained by me and others many times before.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 9:25 pm on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9901

            IABD: Ayn Rand's atheistic philosophy of selfish liberty shared no compassion for the elderly and disabled. Yet she applied for and received Social Security benefits and Medicare which she vehemently opposed in her writings and speeches.

            HTC: You clearly have no understanding whatsoever of Rand's "self-interest" philosophy nor of her position on charity.

            Regarding 'charity', Rand had this to say in the June 1966 Objectivist:

            "The fact that a man has no claim on others (i.e., that it is not their moral duty to help him and that he cannot demand their help as his right) does not preclude or prohibit good will among men and does not make it immoral to offer or to accept voluntary, non-sacrificial assistance.

            "It is altruism that has corrupted and perverted human benevolence by regarding the giver as an object of immolation, and the receiver as a helplessly miserable object of pity who holds a mortgage on the lives of others—a doctrine which is extremely offensive to both parties, leaving men no choice but the roles of sacrificial victim or moral cannibal . . . .

            "To view the question in its proper perspective, one must begin by rejecting altruism’s terms and all of its ugly emotional aftertaste—then take a fresh look at human relationships. It is morally proper to accept help, when it is offered, not as a moral duty, but as an act of good will and generosity, when the giver can afford it (i.e., when it does not involve self-sacrifice on his part), and when it is offered in response to the receiver’s virtues, not in response to his flaws, weaknesses or moral failures, and not on the ground of his need as such."

            Rand had no problem with charity but refused to accept it as a legal or moral obligation.

            As for her accepting Social Security and possibly Medicare, so what? While she thought those programs should be abolished (and she was correct about that as they were a ripoff of the taxpayer and unsustainble in nature), she also believed that people should take advantage of it in order to get back the monies they'd been robbed of by those immoral programs:

            "It is obvious, in such cases, that a man receives his own money which was taken from him by force, directly and specifically, without his consent, against his own choice. Those who advocated such laws are morally guilty, since they assumed the “right” to force employers and unwilling co-workers. But the victims, who opposed such laws, have a clear right to any refund of their own money—and they would not advance the cause of freedom if they left their money, unclaimed, for the benefit of the welfare-state administration." - The Objectivist, 1966

            IABD: By the way, are you a member of the local Liberty Fellowship?

            HTC: No.

            IABD: ...and if the GOP had their way, Glacier National Park would eventually be subdivided for the wealthiest of the Ayn Rand cultists.

            HTC: You're so full of it.


             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 8:15 pm on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            I gave Cato the night off. Please don't try to get arrested for felony attempted humor, Monsieur Pete.

             
          • Pete posted at 7:50 pm on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            It's a beautiful day posted at 7:38 pm on Fri, Feb 8, 2013

            Not now Cato.

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 7:38 pm on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            HighTechCowboy posted at 4:59 pm on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

            HTC- "On the humorous side:...?!?

            IABD- Is this supposed to be a blue-collar joke to make Carroll O'Connor, who played Archie Bunker, roll over in his grave? I am sure the slave labor crew at your assault rifle factory will die laughing after you post it on the bulletin board in the break room.

             
          • Pete posted at 6:54 pm on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Gun Confiscation Bill Proposed in California: ‘We Can Save Lives’

            http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/02/08/gun-confiscation-bill-introduced-in-california-we-can-save-lives/

            I seem to remember these sort of draconian measures being pooh-poohed as never likely to happen by certain bloggers on this site...yet here we are. Thanks for helping pave the road to he//...

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 4:59 pm on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9901

            On the humorous side:

            The coach had put together the perfect team for the Detroit Lions. The only thing that was missing was a good quarterback. He had scouted all the colleges and even the Canadian and European Leagues, but he couldn't find a ringer who could ensure a Super Bowl win.

            Then one night while watching CNN he saw a war-zone scene in Afghanistan .. In one corner of the background, he spotted a young Afghan Muslim soldier with a truly incredible arm. He threw a hand-grenade straight into a 15th story window 100 yards away.

            KABOOM!

            He threw another hand-grenade 75 yards away, right into a chimney.

            KA-BLOOEY!

            Then he threw another at a passing car going 90 mph.

            BULLS-EYE!

            "I've got to get this guy!" coach said to himself. "He has the perfect arm!"

            So, he brings him to the States and teaches him the great game of football. And the Lions go on to win the Super Bowl.

            The young Afghan is hailed as the great hero of football, and when the coach asks him what he wants, all the young man wants is to call his mother.

            "Mom," he says into the phone, "I just won the Super Bowl!"

            "I don't want to talk to you," the old Muslim woman says. "You are not my son!"

            "I don't think you understand, Mother," the young man pleads. "I've won the greatest sporting event in the world. I'm here among thousands of my adoring fans."

            "No! Let me tell you!" his mother retorts. "At this very moment, there are gunshots all around us. The neighborhood is a pile of rubble. Your two brothers were beaten within an inch of their lives last week, and I have to keep your sister in the house so she doesn't get raped!"

            The old lady pauses, and then tearfully says, "I will never forgive you for making us move to Detroit !"

             
          • Rob123 posted at 4:01 pm on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6600

            HTC: Which is why they're way ahead of us on the road to bankruptcy; of course, with Obama's tenure, we're catching up quickly and well on our way to soon overtaking most EU countries in debt-to-GDP ratios.

            So, that's why it is what it is! Here I thought it was some Central Banking thing, with ours sucking up Bonds and pumping money into the system at a rate that has people like RLS scratching their heads and wondering "What about Money supply & inflation? Why is everything still Flat?". I just didn't know what to tell them, until Now! "It's the Poor People!". Thanks, HTC.

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 1:29 pm on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            HighTechCowboy posted at 7:20 am on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

            HTC: Apparently you failed to notice that Aquinas was speaking to us individually, asking each of us to practice charity with OUR OWN possessions, NOT with the possessions/wealth of others. True charity is voluntary and involves giving of our own time and wealth. Aquinas was not arguing for the Robin Hood approach of Obama and his party.

            HighTechCowboy posted at 6:30 pm on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.
            HTC: Liberty is the only issue worth making THE issue and, if we all lived and thought that way, everything else would take care of itself.

            IABD- Ayn Rand's atheistic philosophy of selfish liberty shared no compassion for the elderly and disabled. Yet she applied for and received Social Security benefits and Medicare which she vehemently opposed in her writings and speeches.
            By the way, are you a member of the local Liberty Fellowship? These far-right militia wing-nuts are trying to start an Alamo in the Flathead Valley. Sounds like a bunch of Robin Hood real-estate land-grabbers from out of state moving here while stirring up malcontent and expressing a desire of starting a civil war in the 'last best place'.
            Perhaps you are an exception to the rule as a compassionate narcissist and will spare some free bullets for the poor and less fortunate locals that didn't move out before the 'new wave' of suburban reactionaries from the southern states moved here with their racist propaganda and dreams of an all white separate nation.
            As our nations wealthiest population and CEO's shift to the northwest, urban sprawl encroaches more into grizzly territory and if the GOP had their way, Glacier National Park would eventually be subdivided for the wealthiest of the Ayn Rand cultists. Because these transcendental liberty cultists would require their personal liberty and protection guaranteed by the 2nd amendment, the paranoia of an angry mother bear and her cubs behind every tree would become evil obstructionists requiring individuals to the liberty of at least a 50 caliber machine gun with 100 round clips for all their family members. This would be the natural law of Ayn Rand's selfish capitalist liberty and the NRA.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 1:24 pm on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9901

            Rob123: The slide is emotionally ugly, which is why in Europe their Safety Net is designed to keep one at their current level, while they seek employment.
            Just sayen.......

            HTC: Which is why they're way ahead of us on the road to bankruptcy; of course, with Obama's tenure, we're catching up quickly and well on our way to soon overtaking most EU countries in debt-to-GDP ratios.

             
          • bill39 posted at 12:12 pm on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

            bill39 Posts: 1051

            Bronco: Now this is the way to go if you want to disarm the citizenry: Buy up all the ammo. We're squawking about petty gun-control measures while the Feds are laughing it up. They say: Guns you already have. Not to worry, we'll keep all the ammo.

            I am glad democrat voters are so divided on the issue. You actually put the fear of getting voted out into democrat legislators. As you should, but dont, on many other issues.

             
          • kohana posted at 11:30 am on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            February 8, 2013
            Still more UN hypocrisy
            Ethel C. Fenig

            CAMERA (Committee for Accuracy in Mideast Reporting in America) exposes more of the ongoing hypocrisy of the UN that other media outlets won't.

            "Iran leads the world in executing child offenders," CAMERA asserts. So which country was elected to UNICEF's (United Nations Children's Fund) to its leadership bureau? Why Iran of course. Yep, children across America go trick or treating on Halloween for UNICEF to enable Iran to execute other children. But Iran is in good company on UNICEF's board which includes China, of the infamous one-child policy with its attendant high infant abandonment rate, Russia, of the hellish orphanages, and Pakistan, where they pull young girls who want to be educated off buses and shoot them in the head.

            Since the 1979 revolution Iranian women have been forced to cover up in public with head scarves and long coats, are not allowed to travel outside the country without the permission of their husband, father or other male guardian and are victimized by honor killings, often by stoning. So who is a member of the UN's Commission on the Status of Women? Again, why Iran of course. At CSW's recent meeting, its contribution to upgrading the status of women

            there was only one country-specific resolution and it condemned - you guessed it - Israel. Iran's representative used his speech to excoriate - you guessed it - Israel. The previous year, there was also only one country-specific resolution, aimed at - you guessed it, again - Israel.

            CAMERA asks the obvious,

            What is the point of a council on children's rights that has a place for a country that sentences children as young as nine to death? What is the purpose of a commission on women's rights that seats a country where women are stoned to death? Where is the recognition of the hypocrisy of the United Nations and the caricature it has become? And, for heaven's sake... Where's the Coverage?

            What and where indeed.

            http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2013/02/still_more_un_hypocrisy.html


             
          • kohana posted at 11:17 am on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            The following article tells you why so many in this country are so ignorant of the tenets of Islam. And I am called racist and full of hate because if refuse to be tolerant of this evil.

            WND EXCLUSIVE http://www.wnd.com/2012/05/msnbc-dont-expose-muslim-atrocities/

            MSNBC: Don't expose Muslim atrocities

            Harvard professor doesn't want 'fuel' against Islam revealed

            Published: 05/22/2012 at 8:23 PM

            By Colin Flaherty

            MSNBC’s new golden girl was in a pickle: If someone sees a black person committing rape or domestic violence, should he report it if it makes black people look bad?
            Or if Muslims see wife-beating, genital mutilation and childhood sexual abuse, should they just keep it to themselves, because saying something gives ammunition to the “Islamophobes”?

            The questions appear to be simple. But they posed a challenge for the host of the new “Melissa Harris-Perry” show when guest Mona Eltahawy talked about her Foreign Policy magazine cover story about abuse of women by men in the Muslim world.

            Eltahawy speaks from experience: She had her arms broken in a demonstration in Egypt and was tortured and raped in an Egyptian jail cell.

            So she seemed surprised to find Harris-Perry questioning her right to draw attention to “traditions” such as involuntary female circumcision, wife-beating and childhood sexual abuse.

            “I start with a little bit of trepidation in this conversation,” the host said, “in part because I know some of the critiques of this. The very idea that Western press, those that are not from these nations, who are not Muslim ourselves, who are not part of these traditions can look at your article and say ‘ahhh, look at how horrible those men, or those societies, or that religion is.’

            “And that is part of the reason why, for example, we have an under-reporting of rape and domestic violence in African American communities,” Harris-Perry continued. “Because we know the violence enacted on black men by police, so we often don’t call. Right?”

            Then the MSNBC host brought in Harvard professor Leila Ahmed, who questioned whether Eltahawy should have written the article at all. Not because it was false, but because it made Muslims look bad.

            “You began, Melissa, by noting that some things in the African-American community are not publicized precisely because of the racism,” said Ahmed as Harris-Perry nodded in agreement on a split screen.

            “Mona, I appreciate what you do,” continued Ahmed. “I would love it if – I understand if you want to get your message across. It’s an important message. But if possible [you should not] give fuel, fodder to people who simply hate Arabs and Muslims in this climate of our day.”

            See the interview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9Z0DB2XOoHc#!

            Eltahawy seemed taken aback.
            “That’s the whole point,” she said. “It’s not me that makes Muslims look bad. It’s those atrocities that make Muslims look bad. And as a writer, it’s my job to poke the painful places.”

            Harris-Perry declined to respond to a subsequent email asking if she ever refused to report a violent crime because it would make someone look bad.

            Eltahawy pointed out that deposed Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak oppressed the nation for 30 years, until his removal last year. She said “Mubarak” still needs to be removed from Egyptian minds and bedrooms.

            The society that emphasizes Islam, she said, continues to “oppress women,” citing a statement from Saudi Arabia on the day her article was released saying that 10-year-old girls are “ready for marriage.”

            “That’s outrageous,” Eltawy said.

            She explained she wanted to go “straight for the jugular” and reveal misogyny in religion, culture and the law, and demand an answer.

            “What are we going to do about that?” she asked.

            Life under Shariah
            Former Iowa Republican Congressman Fred Grandy, now with the Center for Security Policy, described what life is like for women under Islamic law, or Shariah, in an interview with “PolitiChicks.”

            Grandy said there are a number of cases in which Muslim women, even in the United States, have been abused under Islamic law.

            They include a case in which a judge concluded it essentially was a Muslim man’s right to beat and assault his wife. In another case, a Muslim woman who had fled Pakistan was forced by a U.S. judge to send her child back to Pakistan, because the father claimed it was his right to have the child.

            Further appeals, the judge ruled, would be in Pakistan. When the mother argued that she could be accused of crimes and sentenced to death if she returned to Pakistan to fight for her child, the judge concluded, essentially, that it was her problem.

            Colin Flaherty is an award-winning reporter whose work has appeared in more than 1,000 media outlets around the world, including the Washington Post, New York Times, Los Angeles Times and WND.

             
          • kohana posted at 11:09 am on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            Rob123 posted at 10:39 am on Fri, Feb 8, 2013

            I partly raised the granddaughter, and instilled pride in her, so doubt they would take the "free" stuff or even ask for it. Step dad looks for work and takes whatever is offered. They do not have a operating vehicle as no money for auto repairs. So mom and dad using buses to get to work or look for work and great-granddaugher gets to school on public transportation.

            Monthly bus passes are $100 for each adult, and $50 for student. $250 a month just to get to work and school.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 10:39 am on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6600

            kohana: "Guess they don't know about all the free stuff."

            Sorry to hear that......Unlike Europe, here in the States the Safety Net doesn't click on during the slide from Middle Class to Poverty. One has to hit the bottom, then the Free Stuff (?) kicks in. The slide is emotionally ugly, which is why in Europe their Safety Net is designed to keep one at their current level, while they seek employment.
            Just sayen.......

             
          • laker1 posted at 10:38 am on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

            laker1 Posts: 110

            IABD:
            Thank you. I don’t doubt that there may have been statutory prohibitions against felons voting or owning firearms at one time in Montana. Since they no longer appear in the Montana Code, apparently they have been repealed. Only statutes which are presently effective appear.

            Without looking up the legislative history I can’t tell whether the repeal was related to the language added in Section 28 of Article II of the new constitution about restoration of rights. It seems likely for voting. If it was, then I think you owe the delegates a “Thank You”. On the other hand, if “Max” refers to Max Baucus, he was on the staff of the constitutional convention, not a delegate, and left before the end of the convention to run for the legislature. If I remember correctly, this was not taken well.

             
          • kohana posted at 9:32 am on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            HighTechCowboy posted at 8:00 am on Fri, Feb 8, 2013

            I was also very impressed with his speech, and I forwarded the clip to my 15 -year old great-granddaughter and her mother/family. Remember, she is the one I'm prejudiced against, because she is 1/4 black, 1/4 Native American, 1/4 Russian Jew, and 1/4 white Christian. Also with a 4.0 GPA, takes college courses with her high school classes, and volunteers 10 hours community service a week. Her goal since she was 10 years old is to become a neurosurgeon. And, she has never heard of Dr. Carson.

            Her family recently had to move in with the m-i-l as step-dad lost his job and mother not making enough to pay the rent and support the family. Guess they don't know about all the free stuff. Times are tough in CA.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:35 am on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9901

            Claus: Here's a link to the papergirl shooting. Check out the holes in that pickup!

            HTC: Now that I've seen photos of the pickup, the officers involved in that shooting need to be prosecuted. Unemployment should be the least of their worries.

            It is quite clear that they fired on the truck from behind without any idea as to who was in the vehicle and without verifying the license plate. This is gross criminal negligence and demands prosecution.

            This will also cost the City of Torrance very dearly, as it should. Those girls won't need a job when that suit's been settled.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:27 am on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9901

            Claus: Meantime the deputies have dressed up in their best "I am in Afghanistan" gear, and the police have shot two women delivering newspapers, because they were in a blue truck like the one the leftard owned. Evidently they shot up another blue pickup in another incident, but didn't hit anyone.

            HTC: I saw this in the news yesterday and was floored by what I was hearing. As an ex-cop, I find this simply incredible and totally unacceptable. All those cops involved need to find themselves in the unemployment line.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:00 am on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9901

            kohana: Dr. Benjamin Carson, Prayer Breakfast Speech, Feb 7, 2013

            HTC: Thanks for sharing that. I particularly liked the Doctor's reminder that it was once illegal to educate blacks because education liberates people while the lack of education makes people susceptible to the control and manipulation of others. The gradual decline of our public education system has certainly benefited the Democrats who need an ignorant electorate in order to lead that electorate away from the freedoms described in the Constitution.

            Obama, hearing Dr. Carson's words, looked about as enthusiast as someone waiting for their colonoscopy.

            Be sure to watch the video, IABD, if you still believe that there's nothing wrong with our public education system or that Christ was a socialist.

             
          • Pete posted at 7:57 am on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            "The LA cop-killer murder spree has nothing to do with politics and everything to do with deranged criminality. I hope they catch him asap." - Piers Morgan re: LA shooting

            "In her haste to take no responsibility, [Palin] didn't even bother to pick the phone up, to write, to do anything. I find that extraordinary." - Piers Morgan re: the shooting in Tuscon

             
          • Claus posted at 7:53 am on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

            Claus Posts: 399

            Here's a link to the papergirl shooting. Check out the holes in that pickup!

            http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2013/02/ex-cop-manhunt-newspaper-delivery-women-shot.html

             
          • Claus posted at 7:49 am on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

            Claus Posts: 399

            Meantime the deputies have dressed up in their best "I am in Afghanistan" gear, and the police have shot two women delivering newspapers, because they were in a blue truck like the one the leftard owned. Evidently they shot up another blue pickup in another incident, but didn't hit anyone.

            Of course if you go to California you'll have to leave you 15 round magazines here, and your concealed carry permit won't be honored. You can wear your St Christopher medal, but keep it hidden so as not to offend anyone.

             
          • Claus posted at 7:40 am on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

            Claus Posts: 399

            Meantime down in LA a leftard goes on a rampage.

            He put up a manifesto! Love the quote from that great moral philosopher, Mia Farrow.

            "Anti-NRA:

            Wayne LaPierre, President of the NRA, you’re a vile and inhumane piece of sh-t. You never even showed 30 seconds of empathy for the children, teachers, and families of Sandy Hook."

            "Loves Obama:

            You disrespect the office of the POTUS/Presidency and Commander in Chief. You call him Kenyan, mongroid, halfrican, muslim, and FBHO when in essence you are to address him as simply, President. The same as you did to President George W. Bush and all those in the highest ranking position of our land before him. Just as I always have. You question his birth certificate, his educational and professional accomplishments, and his judeo-christian beliefs. You make disparaging remarks about his dead parents. You never questioned the fact that his former opponent, the honorable Senator John McCain, was not born in the CONUS or that Bush had a C average in his undergrad. Electoral Candidates children (Romney) state they want to punch the president in the face during debates with no formal repercussions. No one even questioned the fact that the son just made a criminal threat toward the President. You call his wife a Wookie. Off the record, I love your new bangs, Mrs. Obama."

            "Pro Gun Control:

            Who in there right mind needs a f-cking silencer!!! who needs a freaking SBR AR15? No one. No more Virginia Tech, Columbine HS, Wisconsin temple, Aurora theatre, Portland malls, Tucson rally, Newtown Sandy Hook. Whether by executive order or thru a bi-partisan congress an assault weapons ban needs to be re-instituted. Period!!!

            Mia Farrow said it best. “Gun control is no longer debatable, it’s not a conversation, its a moral mandate.”

            If Obama had a brother...

             
          • Pete posted at 7:40 am on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Dereliction of Duty: Obama Did Nothing to Save American Lives in Benghazi--and Lied About It

            http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2013/02/07/Dereliction-of-Duty-Obama-Did-Nothing-to-Save-American-Lives-in-Benghazi--and-Lied-About-It

             
          • Pete posted at 7:26 am on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Q: What's the difference between God and Obama?

            A: God doesn't think he's Obama.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 7:20 am on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9901

            IABD: Listen to your soulless atheist mentor yourself, if you have the audio capability and willingness to listen.

            HTC: I'm quite familiar with Rand's tenets. What I want to know is what you believe her philosophies to be and why you disagree with them to the point where your hatred for her spills over into every post you make about her.

            Your posting her words in response does not constitute reasoned argument. I don't think you know Rand at all and are merely reacting based upon what you've heard other mindless progressives say about her.

            IABD: “Man should not consider his material possession his own, but as common to all, so as to share them without hesitation when others are in need.” — St. Thomas Aquinas

            HTC: Apparently you failed to notice that Aquinas was speaking to us individually, asking each of us to practice charity with OUR OWN possessions, NOT with the possessions/wealth of others. True charity is voluntary and involves giving of our own time and wealth. Aquinas was not arguing for the Robin Hood approach of Obama and his party.

            But apparently that, too, is a bit too nuanced for you to understand.

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 9:37 pm on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            "It’s been another long day at the pearly gates and St. Peter is dutifully processing people. an amazingly long line of people waiting to get in stretches for miles before him. then, from the back of the line, a lone figure starts to walk toward the gates. he’s clean cut, dressed in scrubs and a white coat, and has the word “neurological surgery” stitched under his front coat pocket. he smugly walks to the front of the line, winks at St. peter, and strides into heaven.
            The people in the line are dumbfounded and outraged. “just because he’s a neurosurgeon, he doesn’t have to wait in line?!?” the people start to yell.
            St Peter looks back at them and answers, “no, that’s just God. he likes to pretend he’s a brain surgeon sometimes.”

             
          • Pete posted at 8:53 pm on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            kohana posted at 8:30 pm on Thu, Feb 7, 2013

            First Barry had to share the spotlight with another Messiah, then he had to listen to an Uncle Tom lecture him...it's nearly enough to order a drone strike.

             
          • Pete posted at 8:45 pm on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            "Eyeball-dropping testimony leads to Philly mistrial"

            http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20130207_Eye-dropping_testimony_leads_to_mistrial.html

             
          • Pete posted at 8:42 pm on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Dude has some cojones.

            http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2013/02/06/african-american-dressed-in-kkk-hood-on-street-corner-sparks-controversy-in-philadelphia/

             
          • Pete posted at 8:36 pm on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Funny, funny...too bad it's true.

            http://boldspicynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/NY-Drone-branco.jpg

             
          • kohana posted at 8:30 pm on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            Obama got an earful today, and didn't look too happy about it. Good for Dr. Carson!

            http://www.c-spanvideo.org/clip/4353213

            Dr. Benjamin Carson, Prayer Breakfast Speech, Feb 7, 2013

            John Hopkins Hospital
            Pediatric Neurosurgery, Division Director

             
          • Rob123 posted at 7:09 pm on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6600

            HTC: Liberty is the only issue worth making THE issue and, if we all lived and thought that way, everything else would take care of itself.

            It sounds so easy? If I overstep a little, you'll politely ask me to back off? No guns and stuff. Just polite reason and dialogue? I could handle that.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 7:01 pm on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6600

            Fast posted at 6:47 pm on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

            [smile]

             
          • Fast posted at 6:47 pm on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

            Fast Posts: 248

            Wow, dose anybody have a rock I can hide under?

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 6:46 pm on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            “Man should not consider his material possession his own, but as common to all, so as to share them without hesitation when others are in need.” — St. Thomas Aquinas

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 6:32 pm on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            HighTechCowboy posted at 5:19 pm on Thu, Feb 7, 2013

            HTC-Try to raise it up a couple of notches to an actual discussion of her philosophies, if you can.
            But that, I highly doubt...

            IABD- Listen to your soulless atheist mentor yourself, if you have the audio capability and willingness to listen.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXtiDVYvVK8

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 6:30 pm on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9901

            Rob123: Kind of like 1 issue Libertarians.

            HTC: Liberty is the only issue worth making THE issue and, if we all lived and thought that way, everything else would take care of itself.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 5:19 pm on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9901

            It's a beautiful day posted at 4:15 pm on Thu, Feb 7, 2013

            Once again, your 'argument' is nothing but character assassination. Try to raise it up a couple of notches to an actual discussion of her philosophies, if you can.

            But that, I highly doubt...

             
          • Rob123 posted at 4:20 pm on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6600

            HTC: "So what is it that you have against Ayn Rand?"

            I have nothing against Ayn Rand......of course, some of the mental midgets who think they are Randians drive me nuts, as they place their base feelings on a pedestal and then proceed to worship them in an orgy of self-righteous nincompoopishness. Kind of like 1 issue Libertarians.
            But, I think Idaho should make it required reading......why not? Might even get some young ones to sublimate their sexual energy and become Engineers building Skyscrapers instead of wasting time in the backseat of their parents Prius? Now that would make Ayn Rand smile, plus solve the problem of population growth by building cities and towns UP instead of OUT.

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 4:15 pm on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            HighTechCowboy posted at 3:38 pm on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

            IABD- Ayn Rand was a selfish,narcissistic manipulative sociopath who was arrogant, mean and debasing. Her adulation of self led to her destruction. Atlas Shrugged should be required reading to help students develop critical reasoning and understanding as to why libertarian neoconservatives develop narcissistic persecution complexes and other anti-social and psychotic tendencies dangerous to the nation and world.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 3:38 pm on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9901

            Rob123: Of course, neither was Ayn Rand, or most of your heroes.

            HTC: True heroes rarely are "mainstream" for the herd itself is never heroic nor wise.

            So what is it that you have against Ayn Rand?

            Legislation introduced earlier this week in the Idaho State Legislature would make Atlas Shrugged required reading in high school:

            http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/02/07/symbolic-idaho-bill-would-require-students-to-read-atlas-shrugged/

            3 crucial lessons Ayn Rand can teach us today
            By Yaron Brook, Don Watkins
            February 2, 2013

            Today is the birthday of Ayn Rand, author of the 1957 classic "Atlas Shrugged," and one of history’s most celebrated champions of capitalism. Here are three of the crucial lessons Rand offers those of us who want to fight for a freer, more prosperous America.

            1. Celebrate Business

            Today business is the scapegoat for virtually every evil. Whatever the problem or crisis, “greedy” businessmen take the blame, and the solution is always held to be more controls, more regulations, more taxes. When the financial crisis hit in 2008, for instance, Republican leaders raced to blame “greedy” bankers, not government policy. President Obama has intensified this outlook.

            According to Rand, this is one of history’s worst injustices. Businessmen are the ones who create the medicines, food preservatives, sanitation systems, irrigation systems, and millions of other innovations and labor-saving devices that have nearly tripled our lifespans and provided us with a standard of living unimaginable by our forefathers. As she explained in 1961, the businessman is the great liberator who, in the short span of a century and a half, has released men from bondage to their physical needs, has released them from the terrible drudgery of an eighteen-hour workday of manual labor for their barest subsistence, has released them from famines, from pestilences, from the stagnant hopelessness and terror in which most of mankind had lived in all the pre-capitalist centuries.

            Capitalism is good, said Rand, because it protects each man’s ability to make the most of his own life—and government intervention, which strips such men of their wealth and their freedom, is morally wrong.

            If we want to limit government, Rand warned, this is something we need to celebrate. To slam business is to attack a core part of what makes America great.

            2. Don’t Apologize for the Profit Motive

            Underneath the attack on business is an attack on the motive that drives businessmen: the desire for profits. The profit motive, we’re constantly told, leads businessmen to lie, cheat, and steal their way to a buck—or at minimum taints them morally.

            Just recall the criticisms of Mitt Romney. Even his Republican challengers criticized him, not for passing RomneyCare, but for having been a profit-seeking businessman. But if the profit motive is dangerous and immoral, how can we tolerate the profit system?

            Rand sets the record straight. A profit, she notes, is the insignia of production: you make a profit when you produce something of value, something that others want to buy because it makes human life better, longer, easier, more enjoyable.

            Capitalism is fueled, not by the Al Capones or the Bernie Madoffs of this world who seek to get money by hook or by crook. It is fueled by individuals who make money by creating wealth. This is the actual nature of the profit motive: it is the desire to earn rewards through productive achievement.

            That, says Rand, is the kind of attitude toward one’s work, toward one’s wealth, and toward other people that pervades a free market. Free markets drive out of business the short-sighted, unproductive moochers who don’t create value—and a capitalist government locks up predators such as Madoff when they try to defraud others.

            Capitalism is good, said Rand, because it protects each man’s ability to make the most of his own life—and government intervention, which strips such men of their wealth and their freedom, is morally wrong.

            3. Run from Anyone Trumpeting “The Public Good”

            Today government grows at the expense of individuals: at the expense of their rights, their freedom, their wealth. The supporters of Big Government have always justified this by appealing to “the public good.” How have defenders of capitalism responded? Not by challenging the notion of “the public good.” Instead, we have accepted that notion and tried to persuade people that only capitalism can achieve it.

            But the justification for capitalism, Rand stresses, is not that it serves “the public good” or “the public interest” or “the common welfare.” All of those slogans are dangerously vague: they can mean anything, and so they can be used to “justify” everything. The justification for capitalism is that it is the only system based on the individual’s inalienable right to pursue his own life, liberty, and happiness.

            Society, Rand observes, is not an entity but a collection of sovereign individuals, and the essential political value they have in common is freedom.

            Freedom, Rand stresses, means that individuals can exercise their rights free from coercion and compulsion. They can work to make a successful life for themselves, acting on their own independent judgment, keeping the fruits of their labor, and dealing with others through voluntary exchange to mutual advantage. The government’s role is to protect their freedom by barring the initiation of physical force. The economic system that emerges when government is limited and individual rights are secured is capitalism.

            If you want to stop the growth of the state, you have to get rid of any ounce of the idea that individuals exist to serve some social purpose or goal. Capitalism is the system rooted in the conviction that each individual is an end in himself and has a right to exist for his own sake.

            Ayn Rand’s Winning Formula: Capture the Moral High Ground

            If you wanted to boil down what makes Rand so successful and what she can teach us today, it would be that she teaches the free market side to take the moral high ground.

            We “must fight for capitalism,” Rand says, “not as a ‘practical’ issue, not as an economic issue, but, with the most righteous pride, as a moral issue. That is what capitalism deserves, and nothing less will save it.”

            But how can a system driven by self-interest and the pursuit of personal profit be moral? That is the question Rand answers in her works, and it is the question we address in our book, the national bestseller "Free Market Revolution: How Ayn Rand’s Ideas Can End Big Government."

            We can limit today’s unlimited government. But to do so we will need to mount an unapologetic moral defense of freedom. The first step is to arm ourselves with Ayn Rand’s unsurpassed stockpile of intellectual ammunition, and then to speak out for freedom.

            -- Don Watkins and Yaron Brook are the authors of the national bestseller Free Market Revolution: How Ayn Rand’s Ideas Can End Big Government, and a fellow and executive director, respectively, of the Ayn Rand Institute.

             
          • Bronco posted at 2:47 pm on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            Pete posted at 11:40 am...&...HTC: The second reason behind these massive purchases is to limit supplies and drive up the cost of ammunition in the private sector.
            -------------------------------
            Rifle Ammo for .223 Rem,
            223/5.56 NATO ,and 7.62 NATO
            is nearly impossible to find. (My AK47 uses .223 Rem) Backordered till end of Feb, some till September.
            Remember you can carry twice as much .223s than the 7.62s

            9mm & .40 S&W, available, but hard to find.

            Now this is the way to go if you want to disarm the citizenry: Buy up all the ammo. We're squawking about petty gun-control measures while the Feds are laughing it up. They say: Guns you already have. Not to worry, we'll keep all the ammo.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 2:10 pm on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9901

            Pete: An approximation of how many rounds of ammunition the DHS has now secured over the last 10 months stands at around 1.625 billion. In March 2012, ATK announced that they had agreed to provide the DHS with a maximum of 450 million bullets over four years, a story that prompted questions about why the feds were buying ammunition in such large quantities. In September last year, the federal agency purchased a further 200 million bullets.

            HTC: There's a two-fold reason for these large purchases. The first is to provide ammo for non-federal law enforcement personnel who are being trained by DHS for urban warfare/riot control on a scale that might well be needed when our nation's inevitable bankruptcy due to entitlement spending finally brings the economy to its knees. This training has been going on for a while and will continue for some time as there are over 700,000 sworn peace officers who need to be trained.

            I know people providing this training as well as officers who've gone through it. Some training scenarios can easily have each officer go through as much as 250 rounds of pistol ammunition, which is 175 million rounds for one training program for all 700000 peace officers. These training scenarios need to be repeated in order to commit this training to "muscle memory" and make it almost reflexive.

            The DHS has been providing a lot of this ammo due to budget constraints which limit most departments' ability to provide their own. The also want trainees to have an adequate supply for possible real-world scenarios which might develop.

            The second reason behind these massive purchases is to limit supplies and drive up the cost of ammunition in the private sector. The DHS under Napolitano does not want a well-armed and equipped citizenry who aren't prepared to forfeit their rights to an illegitimate government whose president has unlawfully assumed the right to assassinate any American he deems to be a 'terrorist' threat.

            Pete: The federal agency’s primary concern is now centered around thwarting “homegrown terrorism,” but information produced and used by the DHS to train its personnel routinely equates conservative political ideology with domestic extremism. A study funded by the Department of Homeland Security that was leaked last year characterizes Americans who are “suspicious of centralized federal authority,” and “reverent of individual liberty” as “extreme right-wing” terrorists.

            HTC: This administration would undoubtedly regard the Founders as extremists and would most assuredly have all of them under close watch. They, no doubt, would be constantly searching the skys for one of Obama's drones.


             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 1:43 pm on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9901

            Rob123: I think I was trying to point out that sometimes a Parliamentary System trumps genius sitting in their respective corners, yelling and screaming.

            HTC: Thank our lucky stars that we don't have a parliamentary system. The Founders knew well the many pitfalls of such a system, not the least of which is its predisposition to the tyranny of the majority. Then there's the fact that a parliamentary system offers no executive who can challenge the legislative majority and veto legislation which may be popular but ill-considered.

            The MSM alone could easily challenge Obama's license-to-kill approach but have chose not to, preferring to run cover for their guy so as not to create waves on their way to a more socialist America.

            What we are witnessing is not a failure in design of our legislative system but a failure of the press to do their sacred duty in defense of the Constitution.

             
          • Pete posted at 12:49 pm on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            kohana posted at 10:55 am on Thu, Feb 7, 2013

            "Amazing how a person can equate ignorance, stupidity, hatred for an evil theocracy, as racism."

            I don't think there was a whole lot of equatin' goin' on. [wink]

             
          • Pete posted at 12:46 pm on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Iran's supreme leader shuts down possibility of direct nuclear talks with US

            'Negotiations will not solve the problems' between Iran and the US, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei said today, squashing one-on-one nuclear talks proposed by the US.

            http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2013/0207/Iran-s-supreme-leader-shuts-down-possibility-of-direct-nuclear-talks-with-US

            Well dang. We were this close....President Biden almost had him where he wanted him then he had to go and tell the Ayatollah he was the first Sayyid who was articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy to boot. I guess he forgot about the Muslim-gay thing. Oh well...let's give him a Nobel for effort.

             
          • Pete posted at 12:27 pm on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Bronco posted at 10:52 am on Thu, Feb 7, 2013

            What'd you do? Finally figure out a picture can't make you smarter? You should have asked IABD, he could have told you that. Oh...and IABD don't need no stinkin' gun...he's got him some Kung Fu.

             
          • Pete posted at 11:40 am on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            DHS Purchases 21.6 Million More Rounds of Ammunition

            The Department of Homeland Security is set to purchase a further 21.6 million rounds of ammunition to add to the 1.6 billion bullets it has already obtained over the course of the last 10 months alone, figures which have stoked concerns that the federal agency is preparing for civil unrest.

            A solicitation posted yesterday on the Fed Bid website details how the bullets are required for the DHS Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Artesia, New Mexico.

            The solicitation asks for 10 million pistol cartridge .40 caliber 165 Grain, jacketed Hollow point bullets (100 quantities of 100,000 rounds) and 10 million 9mm 115 grain jacketed hollow point bullets (100 quantities of 100,000 rounds).

            The document also lists a requirement for 1.6 million pistol cartridge 9mm ball bullets (40 quantities of 40,000 rounds).

            An approximation of how many rounds of ammunition the DHS has now secured over the last 10 months stands at around 1.625 billion. In March 2012, ATK announced that they had agreed to provide the DHS with a maximum of 450 million bullets over four years, a story that prompted questions about why the feds were buying ammunition in such large quantities. In September last year, the federal agency purchased a further 200 million bullets.

            To put that in perspective, during the height of active battle operations in Iraq, US soldiers used 5.5 million rounds of ammunition a month. Extrapolating the figures, the DHS has purchased enough bullets over the last 10 months to wage a full scale war for almost 30 years.

            Such massive quantities of ammo purchases have stoked fears that the agency is preparing for some kind of domestic unrest. In 2011, Department of Homeland Security chief Janet Napolitano directed Immigration and Customs Enforcement to prepare for a mass influx of immigrants into the United States, calling for the plan to deal with the “shelter” and “processing” of large numbers of people.

            The federal agency’s primary concern is now centered around thwarting “homegrown terrorism,” but information produced and used by the DHS to train its personnel routinely equates conservative political ideology with domestic extremism.

            A study funded by the Department of Homeland Security that was leaked last year characterizes Americans who are “suspicious of centralized federal authority,” and “reverent of individual liberty” as “extreme right-wing” terrorists.

            In August 2012, the DHS censored information relating to the amount of bullets purchased by the federal agency on behalf of Immigration & Customs Enforcement, citing an “unusual and compelling urgency” to acquire the bullets, noting that there is a shortage of bullets which is threatening a situation that could cause “substantial safety issues for the government” should law enforcement officials not be adequately armed.

            As we highlighted last month, the DHS’ previous ammunition solicitation was awarded to Evian Group, an organization that was formed just five days before the announcement of the solicitation and appeared to be little more than a front organization since it didn’t have a genuine physical address, a website, or even a phone number.

            While Americans are being browbeaten with rhetoric about the necessity to give up semi-automatic firearms in the name of preventing school shootings, the federal government is arming itself to the teeth with both ammunition and guns. Last September, the DHS purchased no less than 7,000 fully automatic assault rifles, labeling them “Personal Defense Weapons.”

            http://www.infowars.com/dhs-purchases-21-6-million-more-rounds-of-ammunition/

             
          • kohana posted at 11:18 am on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            By Roger J. Buffington TOP 500 REVIEWERVINE™ VOICE

            This is perhaps not the greatest novel ever written about World War Two, but it may be the most readable. This is an engrossing, ingenious, and well-written story of ordinary men at sea, placed in an uncommon predicament. Their predicament is simple: their captain is a spectacularly bad leader. This leads to consequences that Wouk develops brilliantly. Wouk's own experience in the US Navy gives this book a gritty authentic feel. The reader really gets a flavor of what it must have been like to be a junior US Naval officer aboard a destroyer-minesweeper. The discussions of officer efficiency reports, the codebreaking duty, casual discipline, and more, all ring true.

            The real story is the maturation of Willie Keith. At the beginning of the novel he is a spoiled, overprivileged lad living an aimless life. His time in the service, and the unusual predicament in which he finds himself, hardens him into a true fighting-man in a way that has happened to countless thousands of servicemen. Wouk tells this story exceedingly well, in a manner that most readers will be able to easily relate to. I found this novel to be an unusually good read primarily for this reason. Wouk's writing is first-rate, and it is easy to see why this novel appealed to readers of the early 1950s, many of them with fresh memories of World War Two. The flavor of that war lingers in the novel even today, and gives the twenty-first century reader a notion of what those times were like.

            This is altogether a remarkably good novel, deserving of every one of its five stars.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 10:59 am on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6600

            HighTechCowboy posted at 10:26 am on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

            [smile] Did olde Norm give you a low grade in Freshman Linguistics? I didn't say Chomsky was mainstream. Of course, neither was Ayn Rand, or most of your heroes.

            I think I was trying to point out that sometimes a Parliamentary System trumps genius sitting in their respective corners, yelling and screaming. Some spend their years Waiting for Godot, while others become Nihilists. And the Drones play on?

             
          • kohana posted at 10:55 am on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            Amazing how a person can equate ignorance, stupidity, hatred for an evil theocracy, as racism.
            I didn't know all those words only referred to different races and colors; shame on me.

            Also a 3rd rate unknown college with a progressive liberal, far left 2nd rated teacher to critic Hermon Wouk! And that someone would believe that diatribe.

             
          • Bronco posted at 10:52 am on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            HTC: "A good man always knows his limitations." - Inspector Harry Callahan
            *************************
            You're quoting a fictional San Francisco police detective from a vengeance-film series to insult IABD?
            Incredible...and ironic. Harry was a vigilante with a badge. Rules and regulations didn't matter to him. Neither did ethical guidelines. Wasn't there a guy like that just recently killed in his bunker? Perhaps your heroes share your visions of justice, but I thank the stars there are more folks like IABD who present with enough good sense and lack of hate, and who don't pursue their more violent tendencies as a solution to our social problems.

            In law a man is guilty when he violates the rights of others. In ethics he is guilty if he only thinks of doing so.
            ---Immanuel Kant

            A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
            ---William Shakespeare

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 10:26 am on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9901

            Rob123 posted at 9:24 am on Thu, Feb 7, 2013

            Notice that I said the "MSM" is largely silent about this. I did not say that no one on the left was protesting.

            And Chomsky is hardly mainstream and his getting this one right only proves the old saying that even a blind squirrel occasionally finds a nut.

             
          • Bronco posted at 10:23 am on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

            Bronco Posts: 4328


            National Secular Movement Update
            Newsletter and Call
            Call Every Thursday from 12PM - 12:30PM (ET)
            Phone Number: 559-726-1300 Code: 199568

            February 7, 2013
            EXECUTIVE SUMMARY:

            A win for our state chapters: Montana's Intelligent Design bill is dead! Following a House Education Committee meeting, at which the Secular Coalition for Montana spoke, HB 183 has been tabled. Labeled as support for "critical thinking," H 183 is a stealth creationsim and intelligent design bill which seeks to teach theological arguments in the public schools science classroom. Furthermore, similar legislation in Colorado has also failed.
            ****************************
            There was nothing. Then gGod appeared out of nowhere and made everything. He loves Jews and America, and hates gays.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 9:24 am on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6600

            HTC: Don't you just love our President's hypocritical and twisted moral code? He feigns disgust over waterboarding terrorists but kills them, even U.S. citizens, with impunity.
            If the MSM weren't in bed with that usurper, they'd be chattering about that nonstop.

            _________________
            If you would forego eating breakfast, then take a deep breath and repeat "In the name of Science!" 10 times, then get on Facebook and "Like" Norm Chomsky you would see that the Left has been screaming as loud as Ron Paul from the Right.
            In a parliamentary system, they would form an alliance and stop it! Instead, in our 2 party system with certain Planks that are ignored, these two are forced into the corners and shunned.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 9:02 am on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9901

            Obama Gives Himself Permission to Kill
            by Judge Andrew Napolitano
            February 7, 2013

            After stonewalling for more than a year federal judges and ordinary citizens who sought the revelation of its secret legal research justifying the presidential use of drones to kill persons overseas -- even Americans -- claiming the research was so sensitive and so secret that it could not be revealed without serious consequences, the government sent a summary of its legal memos to an NBC newsroom earlier this week.

            This revelation will come as a great surprise, and not a little annoyance, to U.S. District Court Judge Colleen McMahon, who heard many hours of oral argument during which the government predicted gloom and doom if its legal research were subjected to public scrutiny. She very reluctantly agreed with the feds, but told them she felt caught in “a veritable Catch-22,” because the feds have created “a thicket of laws and precedents that effectively allow the executive branch of our government to proclaim as perfectly lawful certain actions that seem on their face incompatible with our Constitution and laws, while keeping the reasons for their conclusion a secret.”

            She was writing about President Obama killing Americans and refusing to divulge the legal basis for claiming the right to do so. Now we know that basis.

            The undated and unsigned 16-page document leaked to NBC refers to itself as a Department of Justice white paper. Its logic is flawed, its premises are bereft of any appreciation for the values of the Declaration of Independence and the supremacy of the Constitution, and its rationale could be used to justify any breaking of any law by any “informed, high-level official of the U.S. government.”

            The quoted phrase is extracted from the memo, which claims that the law reposes into the hands of any unnamed “high-level official,” not necessarily the president, the lawful power to decide when to suspend constitutional protections guaranteed to all persons and kill them without any due process whatsoever. This is the power claimed by kings and tyrants. It is the power most repugnant to American values. It is the power we have arguably fought countless wars to prevent from arriving here. Now, under Obama, it is here.

            This came to a boiling point when Obama dispatched CIA drones to kill New Mexico-born and Al Qaeda-affiliated Anwar al-Awlaki while he was riding in a car in a desert in Yemen in September 2011. A follow-up drone, also dispatched by Obama, killed Awlaki’s 16-year-old Colorado-born son and his American friend.

            Awlaki’s American father sued the president in federal court in Washington, D.C., trying to prevent the killing. Justice Department lawyers persuaded a judge that the president always follows the law, and besides, without any evidence of presidential law breaking, the elder Awlaki had no case against the president. Within three months of that ruling, the president dispatched his drones and the Awlakis were dead. This spawned follow-up lawsuits, in one of which McMahon gave her reluctant ruling.

            Then the white paper appeared. It claims that if an American is likely to trigger the use of force 10,000 miles from here, and he can’t easily be arrested, he can be murdered with impunity. This notwithstanding state and federal laws that expressly prohibit non-judicial killing, an executive order signed by every president from Gerald Ford to Obama prohibiting American officials from participating in assassinations, the absence of a declaration of war against Yemen, treaties expressly prohibiting this type of killing, and the language of the Declaration, which guarantees the right to live, and the Constitution, which requires a jury trial before the government can deny that right.

            The president cannot lawfully order the killing of anyone, except according to the Constitution and federal law. Under the Constitution, he can only order killing using the military when the U.S. has been attacked or when an attack is so imminent that delay would cost innocent lives. He can also order killing using the military in pursuit of a declaration of war enacted by Congress.

            Unless Obama knows that an attack from Yemen on our shores is imminent, he’d be hard-pressed to argue that a guy in a car in the desert 10,000 miles from here -- no matter his intentions -- poses a threat so imminent to the U.S. that he needs to be killed on the spot in order to save the lives of Americans who would surely die during the time it would take to declare war on the country that harbors him, or during the time it would take to arrest him. Under no lawful circumstances may he use CIA agents for killing. Surely, CIA agents can use deadly force defensively to protect themselves and their assets, but they may not use it offensively. Federal laws against murder apply to the president and to all federal agents and personnel in their official capacities, wherever they go on the planet.

            Obama has argued that he can kill Americans whose deaths he believes will keep us all safer, without any due process whatsoever. No law authorizes that. His attorney general has argued that the president’s careful consideration of each target and the narrow use of deadly force are an adequate and constitutional substitute for due process. No court has ever approved that. And his national security adviser has argued that the use of drones is humane since they are “surgical” and only kill their targets. We know that is incorrect, as the folks who monitor all this say that 11 percent to 17 percent of the 2,300 drone-caused deaths have been those of innocent bystanders.

            Did you consent to a government that can kill whom it wishes? How about one that plays tricks on federal judges? How long will it be before the presidential killing comes home?


            Andrew P. Napolitano, a former judge of the Superior Court of New Jersey, is the senior judicial analyst at Fox News Channel. Judge Napolitano has written seven books on the U.S. Constitution. His latest is “Theodore and Woodrow: How Two American Presidents Destroyed Constitutional Freedom.”

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 7:57 am on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9901

            Rob123: Just like I reject the current attempt by the Executive Branch of Government and the DoD to circumvent the 4th Amendment in order to spy on,and sometimes Kill, "Alleged Enemies of the State no matter where they are, or what their Legal Citizenship might be", with Drones.

            HTC: Don't you just love our President's hypocritical and twisted moral code? He feigns disgust over waterboarding terrorists but kills them, even U.S. citizens, with impunity.

            If the MSM weren't in bed with that usurper, they'd be chattering about that nonstop.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 7:50 am on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9901

            IABD: I do not operate as a father knows best.

            HTC: "A good man always knows his limitations." - Inspector Harry Callahan

             
          • Rob123 posted at 6:08 am on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6600

            http://www.thewesternnews.com/obituaries/article_1ab06006-6fbc-11e2-9ccd-0019bb2963f4.html

            http://www.virtualwall.org/dr/RamboAJ01a.htm

             
          • Rob123 posted at 4:46 am on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6600

            HighTechCowboy posted at 8:21 pm on Wed, Feb 6, 2013.
            Posts: 7006
            Rob123: And the whole 'coming home and being spit on' is such an Urban Legend straight out of Right Wing Hollywood.
            HTC: Really? One of my fellow engineering students would be surprised to hear that, since it actually happened to him on our campus, witnessed by me. An SDS student spit on him as we passed by a demonstration they were holding on campus. We stopped as he heard them calling our soldiers "baby killers" and he wanted to speak out in protest against that characterization. That was when he was spat upon.
            _________________________________________________
            So, at an IVY League School in Cambridge during the late 60's you and your buddy, with little lapel pins "YAF" plus an American Flag no doubt, approach a group of Left Leaning Trust Fund Baby/ Ivy League SDS students and some spit exchanges occur. Wow! It must have been terrible!

            But, I still haven't heard any story about American Servicemen being spit on, upon returning from Vietnam, that is direct from the Horses Mouth? It's Hollywood, I tell you.
            And I reject the rewriting of history in order to help the feelings of individuals caught up in that historical train wreck. Just like I reject the current attempt by the Executive Branch of Government and the DoD to circumvent the 4th Amendment in order to spy on,and sometimes Kill, "Alleged Enemies of the State no matter where they are, or what their Legal Citizenship might be", with Drones. Killing should not be easy.

            http://www.thewesternnews.com/obituaries/article_1ab06006-6fbc-11e2-9ccd-0019bb2963f4.html

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 10:04 pm on Wed, Feb 6, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            The First Neoconservative: Herman Wouk, the Americanization of the Holocaust, and the Rise of Neoconservatism
            -Joel Brodkin

            http://newpol.org/content/first-neoconservative-herman-wouk-americanization-holocaust-and-rise-neoconservatism

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 9:51 pm on Wed, Feb 6, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            laker1 posted at 9:23 pm on Wed, Feb 6, 2013.

            I previously had the original code regarding felony convictions before the signing of the new Montana Constitution and cannot find it. The online version of the original was edited and would be in the 1972 original books in the Montana Law library in Helena. I noticed the Territorial version online is different as well. I personally don't have an issue voting illegally and it was 41 years ago and I have a clean record and vote regularly. Since someone previously and successfully challenged the law over the horse, saddle, pistol and $20.00 gold piece in the 70's and won, there has been some censoring of the Montana codes obviously. Nobody really gets to sue the State of Montana without their permission. A lawsuit against the State of Montana would not be Montanan and I am not about to begin complaining like the new breed of Californicator and neoconservative malcontents in the valley over a stupid desire for a firearm. I have made it through life without one and really don't need one now. A horse would also be a luxury and not a necessity.

             
          • laker1 posted at 9:23 pm on Wed, Feb 6, 2013.

            laker1 Posts: 110

            It's a beautiful day posted at 7:42 pm on Tue, Feb 5, 2013.

            “Because my offense occurred prior to the effective date of the signing of the 1972 Montana Constitution, I cannot legally vote, or possess a firearm unlike felons who have had crimes committed after the 1972 Montana Constitution went into effect. Go figure...Thanks Max....”.

            I am interested in some of the claims that people make on this blog and, if I have the time, I look into them. Often I find them, to put this tactfully, questionable but I learn a lot about the world so it’s sort of worthwhile.

            As far as felons being qualified to vote, Section 13-1-111(2), MCA, disqualifies felons only while serving a sentence in a penal institution. Likewise, the only felons who are prohibited from owning firearms are felons who have received an additional sentence for offenses committed with dangerous weapon under Section 46-18-221 of the Montana Code. See Sections 45-8-313 and 45-8-314, MCA.

            Unless you are presently in prison or committed an offense with a dangerous weapon, what is there that prevents you from voting or owning a firearm? You seem to think that the 1972 Montana Constitution treats felons convicted after its effective date differently from those convicted before. Do you have any authority for that? I’ve looked at the annotations for Section 28 of Article II and there aren’t any decisions at all. Section 28 says, in part: “(2) Full rights are restored by termination of state supervision for any offense against the state.” It doesn’t say anything about the date of the offense.

            Any help here?

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 8:36 pm on Wed, Feb 6, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            kohana posted at 7:08 pm on Wed, Feb 6, 2013

            To Self -Professed Drudge Troll kohanna- I would like a little more personal privacy. My daughter is now an adult and her she does not need my paternal dominance in regards to making personal decisions regarding her free-will. I do not operate as a father knows best. Her mother was also a good person and loved her as well. Previous diatribes reflected in your posts were very hostile and racist regarding where my daughter's brains were inherited and she does not need racially hostile training advice from you. Please cease and desist and do not encroach any further into our lives. I will no longer allow your devious chicanery to divide and conquer what is left of my family. I am not surprised that Frank Miele allows you and HTC to be an exception to the rules of commentary.

             
          • kohana posted at 8:32 pm on Wed, Feb 6, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            I have finished reading Herman Wouk’s newest book, released Nov. 2012, and I am returning it to the Bigfork Public Library tomorrow. It is on loan from the Bitterroot Public Library, Hamilton, MT so if any would like to read it before it is returned give Bigfork Library a call. It is a novel about writing a movie script of “The Lawgiver” Moses. The biblical references are accurate the rest is fiction. I found it a delightful read. Herman Wouk is at least 98 or 99 years old and states he has at least 2 more books in him.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:32 pm on Wed, Feb 6, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9901

            The Obama DOJ has announced that they're filing suit against S&P for overly rosy bond ratings which they allege led to the 2008 financial collapse. But why not Moody's and Fitch?

            Could it be merely coincidence that the Chairmen of Moody's and Fitch are major Democratic donors and big Obama boosters? Merely coincidence that it was S&P which had the kahones to drop our credit rating a notch almost 18 months ago, while acknowledging that the federal government had a major overspending problem? Of course, it's laughable that they're suing S&P for being "overly rosy" in their assessments of subprime derivatives while punishing S&P for refusing to be overly rosy about the federal government's fiscal unfitness.

            Since Moody's and Fitch have also recently warned of their own downgrades if the deficits aren't significantly reduced, this is likely a shot across their bows to warn them that they could be added to the suit if they refuse to play Obama's game.

            This kind of thuggery is so common in Obama's Chicago home town that folks there barely notice it. Will America notice that he's sullied the nation's capital with the same kind of criminal behavior?

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:21 pm on Wed, Feb 6, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9901

            Rob123: And the whole 'coming home and being spit on' is such an Urban Legend straight out of Right Wing Hollywood.

            HTC: Really? One of my fellow engineering students would be surprised to hear that, since it actually happened to him on our campus, witnessed by me. An SDS student spit on him as we passed by a demonstration they were holding on campus. We stopped as he heard them calling our soldiers "baby killers" and he wanted to speak out in protest against that characterization. That was when he was spat upon.

            Several of my friends and family members served in Vietnam and they also take exception to many of Stone's characterizations.

             
          • kohana posted at 7:08 pm on Wed, Feb 6, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            This is specifically for IABD, to teach his daughter there are some people, and some who claim to be a religion so profound evil we have trouble in comprehension.

            February 6, 2013

            Burkas and Babies
            By Glenn Fairman

            Trolling through Drudge a day or so ago, I caught hold of a headline that piqued my curiosity entitled "Burka Babies." Having an inquiring mind that is not immune to sensationalist headlines or the National Enquirer racks at the market, I bit on the following news story from Al Arabiya:

            A Saudi cleric has called for all female babies to be fully covered by wearing the face veil, commonly known as the burka, citing reports of little girls being sexually molested.

            In a TV interview on the Islamic al-Majd TV, which seems to date back to mid-last year, Sheikh Abdullah Dauod, stressed that wearing the veil will protect baby girls. The Sheikh tried to back his assertion with claims of sexual molestation against babies in the kingdom, quoting unnamed medical and security sources.

            ....Sheikh Mohammad al-Jzlana, former judge at the Saudi Board of Grievances, told Al Arabiya that Dauod's ruling was denigrating to Islam and Shariah and made Islam look bad.

            He said that he feels sad whenever he sees a family walking around with a veiled baby, describing that as injustice to children.

            As it turns out, this Saudi cleric was viewed as a form of extreme nut case, even by fundamentalist standards; and the majority of the faithful had decreed that Daoud had gone beyond the pale in denigrating the Spirit of Islam, which seems in itself a difficult thing to do. Somewhat encouragingly, this short article concludes with the "forces of reason" in the Oil Kingdom putting the "mad mullah" in his place and in turn making the land safe from the creeping "burkanization" of babies. It is said that even in a land of lunatics, a quality of prudence and civic decorum holds sway on occasion.

            But lost in the final words of the article's text is a most revealing observation. Somehow, the twisted and selective logic of Judge Sheik al-Jzlana leads him to the conclusion that what is an injustice to children is by the same token prudent and legal when applied to an adult female. If I understand the learned judge correctly, burkas and the veil are a prophylactic means to protect adult women from the predations and irresistible natures that burn within male and female and whose interactions must be monitored at all times through a series of legal strictures. However, if the veil for a child or baby adds derision to Islam, what are we to say about a religio-legal system whose venerated Founder saw fit to give his sanctified blessing for captive women to be held as sex slaves; and indeed, who thought it morally fitting to betroth the young child Aisha at the tender age of six? What semblance of propriety are we to make of a man whose advanced holiness allowed him to forego coitus until the young girl had reached the majority of nine years or age?

            In light of all this, in the February 3, 2013 version of Examiner.com, we read of a Saudi Islamic cleric who admitted to raping, torturing, and murdering his five-year-old daughter on the grounds that she had not retained her virginity. Aside from the internal paradox of concepts here, how did the learned masters of Sharia law adjudicate this diabolical mayhem -- more dispositive of a reptile than a hallowed religious devotee? Apparently, with the equivalent of $50,000 and no jail time. I quote the author Michael Stone:

            Fayhan al-Ghamdi, the victim's father and a popular Islamic preacher who has made numerous television appearances promoting Islam, confessed to the heinous crime. Ghamdi told Saudi officials he used cables and a cane on his five-year-old daughter, leaving her with multiple injuries, including a crushed skull, broken ribs and left arm, extensive bruising and burns. In addition, one of Lama's fingernails had been torn off. Hospital staff reports the child's rectum had been torn open and the abuser had attempted to burn it closed.

            The article goes on to elucidate the fact that had our noble cleric committed the act upon a male, he would have drawn a double fine. Moreover, under Sharia law no father may be given the death penalty for murdering either wife or children. The theme of the article continues with the notion of Guardianship in this most fundamentalist of Islamic kingdoms. It is this strict relationship between man and wife that condemns the female to the status of a minor and allows him to treat his daughter as chattel property to be auctioned off as he deems fit. Recently, a case emerged in Saudi Arabia where a fifteen-year-old girl was sold to a man of ninety for a handsome price and the young girl wisely locked herself away from him on her wedding night before finally fleeing. Alas, such anecdotal stories are legion in a culture where peace and non-compulsion are heralded as hallmarks of the moral imagination.

            By now, the scrutinizing eye that has not drifted into Progressive somnamulance is well aware of the relationship between Islam and the rape of European women. Of these nations, Sweden has been encountering rapes at astronomical levels some twenty times greater than that of southern Europe. In addition, the incidents of child rape have skyrocketed and the lion's share of these cases are attributed to Middle Eastern and North African immigrants. All throughout Scandinavia, France, the Netherlands, and Britain, reports of violent teams of rapists have flooded the police docks and in many cases, the politically correct authorities are complicit in the cover-up by identifying the culprits as indeterminately "Asian."

            Lest we be accused of slandering Islam in our investigation, it should be emphasized that the Koran and Hadiths give full sanction to the rape of infidel women for the pursuit of pleasure in foreign lands. In Sharia, the melding of sex and savage punishment as a consequential penalty for the non-believer finds legal sanction in the Islamic jurists. Indeed, sex appears so persistent in the Islamic consciousness that it has been subject to a byzantine set of laws that seek to enflame rather than tame carnal lust.

            In Shia Islam, a longstanding institution known as M'uta serves as a clever means to bypass the stringent laws against Muslim fornication that can be dealt with severely. Under M'uta, a marriage contract can be entered into by both consenting parties for as little as an hour as a means of legitimizing coitus for an agreed upon cash transaction. While scarcely distinguishable from prostitution, such a ruse operates out in the open and with the blessing of the Shia clerics. In fact, the Shia cleric of clerics, Ayatollah Khomeini, authored a book relating to human relations known as The Green Book, wherein he codified and legitimatized an entire panorama of human actions including bestiality. I quote one of his most shocking:

            "A Muslim man can have sexual pleasure with a little girl as young as a baby. But he should not penetrate her vaginally, however he can sodomize her". (Tehriro vasyleh, fourth edition, Qom, Iran, 1990).

            And so we at last come full circle in our query. When a religio-politico doctrine has enshrined chattel slavery and the de facto ownership of human beings within its worldview, should we be astonished that it discounts rights, human autonomy and humane moral treatment in the bargain? Having locked the unescorted female away in the home, Islam is guilty of a sin more grievous than the comingling of genders. In denying women the freedom of showing their facial countenance -- the foremost symbol of individuality and personality -- does not fundamentalist Islam express an a priori aversion to free will and create a climate wherein women become the equivalent of birds and fish -- to be enjoyed and savoured as mere instrumental goods?

            If one can deny women's fundamental humanity and equality under law, then surely culture will invariably move in lockstep in the procession of burkas to rapine. There is a fundamental evil occurring in men when they ignore the filth, immoderation, and dearth of restraint that lies within themselves while reciprocally blaming the victim for the very primitive moral structures they have conspired to create. In psychologically projecting the myth that women are incapable of self-control, Fundamentalist male pride ignores the heaving beam wedged in their own eye while fixating on the mote that lies hidden behind that terrified opaque linen veil.

            Page Printed from: http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/../2013/02/burkas_and_babies.html at February 06, 2013 - 08:03:38 PM CST

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 5:34 pm on Wed, Feb 6, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            http://www.lesjones.com/2013/01/30/medical-marijuana-use-makes-it-illegal-buy-gun/

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 4:52 pm on Wed, Feb 6, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZ5qb1CBDrk
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Pibk6X1KAJM
            http://www.upworthy.com/why-mass-shootings-are-big-money-for-the-gun-lobby

             
          • Rob123 posted at 4:20 pm on Wed, Feb 6, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6600

            http://www.dailycamera.com/ci_22516321/apnewsbreak-effort-building-change-us-pot-laws?source=most_viewed

            APNewsBreak: Effort building to change US pot laws
            By GENE JOHNSON Associated Press

             
          • Rob123 posted at 3:13 pm on Wed, Feb 6, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6600

            HTC: "We need to honor and thank them for their service and help them put their personal Vietnam demons to rest."

            I'm a little closer to Stone's analysis of what we did there, than yours. And, I was there! And the whole 'coming home and being spit on' is such an Urban Legend straight out of Right Wing Hollywood. No one ever actually meets the returning Vietnam vet who was spit on. And I came home a few weeks after Kent State!

            "Stone was admitted into Yale University, but left after a year[9] to teach high school students at the Free Pacific Institute in South Vietnam. Stone taught for six months, after which he worked as a wiper on a United States Merchant Marine ship, traveling to Oregon. He returned to Yale, where he dropped out a second time (in part due to working on an autobiographical novel A Child's Night Dream, published 1997 by St. Martin's Press).[citation needed] In April 1967, Stone enlisted in the United States Army, requesting combat duty in Vietnam. He served from September 1967 through November 1968 with the 25th Infantry Division, then with the First Cavalry Division, earning a Bronze Star with Combat V for heroism in ground combat; he was wounded twice and received a Purple Heart with an Oak Leaf Cluster. He also received the Air Medal for participating in more than 25 helicopter combat assaults and the Army Commendation Medal"

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 1:24 pm on Wed, Feb 6, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9901

            Rob123 posted at 12:38 pm on Wed, Feb 6, 2013

            More than a bit over the top. Yes, the war was ugly and we were supporting a corrupt regime that certainly didn't reflect our own values, but the ugliness was hardly one-sided. Stone has a nasty tendency to exaggerate our sins while downplaying those of the other side.

            As for the 'valor' of the men and women who served in Vietnam, that shouldn't be ignored simply because of the excesses of some and the questionable reason for our being there. They showed up when called and did their jobs while enduring incredible conditions and ugliness, all while lacking the clear moral imperative which helped the WW II vets endure their challenges.

            Then, upon returning home, many were scorned and even spit upon. Most never got the help they needed because we all wanted to forget everything about that war, including those who served in it. We need to honor and thank them for their service and help them put their personal Vietnam demons to rest.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 1:13 pm on Wed, Feb 6, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9901

            kohana posted at 12:57 pm on Wed, Feb 6, 2013

            The oil from algae proposition is the greenies' most laughable proposal to date. The only thing green about them is the moss between their ears.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 1:12 pm on Wed, Feb 6, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9901

            IABD: Is your personal drug policy also your company policy? I assume if your employees have a pre-existing drug problem, state or private insurance for workers compensation claims will not have to shell out for any injury or deaths occurring in your workplace.

            HTC: As I said previously, the rest of us must be free from the consequences of others' personal choices such as recreational drug use; therefore, if an employee's outside activities interfere with their job performance or, worse yet, endangers them or others in the work place, well, that's simply unacceptable and I won't and don't tolerate it. Any employee stupid enough to come to work stoned or to use drugs/alcohol while on the job would be immediately terminated.

             
          • kohana posted at 12:57 pm on Wed, Feb 6, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            From Herman Wouk’s new book, “The Lawgiver”:

            “Freedom from Mideast Oil Through Algae” …at the moment that tankful of algae gasoline figures out at $54,000 a gallon. … Yes, right now oil prices are down again, which is bad for algae, but…

            At 97 years of age, Mr. Wouk still has his incredible talent for story telling. And willing to mock the “green advocates”

             
          • Rob123 posted at 12:38 pm on Wed, Feb 6, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6600

            https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=477758455612057

            http://www.globalresearch.ca/untold-history-of-the-united-states-oliver-stone-obama-and-the-war-in-vietnam/5318461

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 11:48 am on Wed, Feb 6, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            http://www.newshounds.us/10052012_fox_friends_steven_crowder_advance_free_obama_phone_hoax

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 9:36 am on Wed, Feb 6, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            mooseberryinn posted at 8:57 am on Wed, Feb 6, 2013.

            mooseberry-"Saw a really funny video this morning - a fat. toothless, obviously dumb black woman, ranting, raving and dancing in the street about her free "smart" phone because she voted for Obama."

            IABD- She won't be ranting, raving and dancing after she realizes there is a 2 year contract which is not free. I met an illegal Mexican housekeeping maid who was given a free "smart" phone from the local Google billionaire just to get rid of her. Now she can not afford to get out of her cellular contract.

             
          • mooseberryinn posted at 8:57 am on Wed, Feb 6, 2013.

            mooseberryinn Posts: 2690

            hey, golly, that is too bad. I agree with Kohana. But, ya know, what's with the liberals banning of everything that might be harmful? I mean, the King is a druggie, and the Queen wants to pack kids' lunches with 'health food"? A conflict there? Saw a really funny video this morning - a fat. toothless, obviously dumb black woman, ranting, raving and dancing in the street about her free "smart" phone because she voted for Obama. Ya just gotta love this train-wreck in progress.

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 8:50 am on Wed, Feb 6, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            kohana posted at 8:15 am on Wed, Feb 6, 2013

            kohana-"There should be some way to get that expunged from your records and give you back your citizenship rights."

            IABD- If the Governor had leniency in his heart and was to abide by the rules of the old Territorial Montana Constitution, I would be compensated with a new set of clothes, horse, saddle, pistol, and a $20 gold piece along with the right to vote.

             
          • kohana posted at 8:15 am on Wed, Feb 6, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            IABD: So, you were convicted of felony conspiracy to possess?

            That so sucks! There should be some way to get that expunged from your records and give you back your citizenship rights. Heck, half the people in this country have used marijuana or still use it. There wouldn’t be enough jails to hold them all.

            I knew a LAPD cop once who carried refers, so when he stopped some kid and patted him down, low and behold, he’d conveniently find marijuana on the kid and at that time it was a felony. His superiors caught on to what he was doing and fired him, but did nothing to go back into his arrests records and look into the innocence of the kids that were now serving felony time. His reasons were, “they are just punks anyway and needed to be locked up.”

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 8:10 am on Wed, Feb 6, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            HighTechCowboy posted at 7:26 am on Wed, Feb 6, 2013.

            HTC-'For the record, as a libertarian, I believe that all drugs should be decriminalized. If we're truly free and our life is ours, not the state's, then we have a right to use drugs, even if they kill us."

            IABD- I was convicted of evidence that came out of a local police detective's desk. My attorney was a local libertarian drunk who said the same thing to all of his clients that decriminalization was coming soon and was eventually disbarred and lost a run for Governor of Montana.
            Is your personal drug policy also your company policy? I assume if your employees have a pre-existing drug problem, state or private insurance for workers compensation claims will not have to shell out for any injury or deaths occurring in your workplace.

             
          • Claus posted at 8:01 am on Wed, Feb 6, 2013.

            Claus Posts: 399

            California is a huge economy and effects us all. Consider that for many, many years it has pulled in investment capital that might have been placed in other locations. Now its enormous tax load, cost of living and debt maintenance takes a surcharge on many of our transactions. We're already paying for their dystopia. The size of their economy and their electoral power almost assures that when the time comes all of us will be required to dig deep and bail them out.

            The problem is not just California. Public education has churned out masses of educated fools. They lack the tools to make critical judgements on their own, but they know what they like, and it's sort of a vague notion of the California lifestyle.I don't really see how they won't vote us into a similar state eventually. Of course, running out of fuel for our economic supernova may change everything sooner than we think.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 7:26 am on Wed, Feb 6, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9901

            It's a beautiful day posted at 7:42 pm on Tue, Feb 5, 2013

            So, you were convicted of felony conspiracy to possess?

            Ah, the mistakes of youth. But it sounds like you took control of your life afterwards and raised a daughter, now in med school, who you're obviously and justifiably proud of and no doubt love very much.

            It's not how we start the race but how we finish it that counts.

            For the record, as a libertarian, I believe that all drugs should be decriminalized. If we're truly free and our life is ours, not the state's, then we have a right to use drugs, even if they kill us. However, everyone else has a right to not have to try to rescue the drug user from the consequences or to pay for the drug user's medical treatment/rehabilitation.

            That's the way it works in a society where the individual is truly free and the state exists to protect his freedom, not usurp it.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 4:18 am on Wed, Feb 6, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6600

            mooseberryinn posted at 7:59 pm on Tue, Feb 5, 2013.
            Posts: 1090
            "That explains a lot."

            I guess after spending 25+ years in front of a USAF Radar Screen in Thule, Greenland looking for a Blip, it speaks volumes? Don't ya love stereotypes, Moose?

             
          • mooseberryinn posted at 7:59 pm on Tue, Feb 5, 2013.

            mooseberryinn Posts: 2690

            That explains a lot.

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 7:42 pm on Tue, Feb 5, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            HighTechCowboy posted at 6:59 pm on Tue, Feb 5, 2013.

            IABD: ...experienced Montana license plate maker....
            HTC: In which of our correctional facilities did you get that experience?

            IABD- It was in the Montana Territorial Prison as well as the old Rancho Deluxe in Deer Lodge prior to the enactment of the 1972 Montana Constitution. Because of LEAA funding to local law enforcement at the time, I was sentenced to 2 years for a misdeamenor amount of low grade marijuana I neither sold or possessed. I was the first person in the US to go to prison for attempted possession of marijuana. There was a write up in the Playboy Forum about it in 1973.
            Because my offense occurred prior to the effective date of the signing of the 1972 Montana Constitution, I cannot legally vote, or possess a firearm unlike felons who have had crimes committed after the the 1972 Montana Constitution went into effect. Go figure...Thanks Max....
            bigfranky@hotmail.com

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 6:59 pm on Tue, Feb 5, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9901

            IABD: ...experienced Montana license plate maker....

            HTC: In which of our correctional facilities did you get that experience?

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 6:49 pm on Tue, Feb 5, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            Editor posted at 5:05 pm on Tue, Feb 5, 2013.

            Mr. Miele- "I took down the references to a personal email account that were posted here. Even if you are willing to share your real name, we would like you to keep your contact information off the site. Thanks."

            IABD- Discussion rules: commenters have no expectation of privacy. From one former editor-in-chief, political cartoonist and experienced Montana license plate maker to the DIL managing editor, if Blake wants to post his personal email account, he can also click on the hyperlink My Dashboard after logging in and add his personal email account information to his account profile. There would be no need of censoring Blake for this kind of conduct. Respect the 1st amendment always. Thanks...

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 6:35 pm on Tue, Feb 5, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9901

            Pimco’s Gross: US Economy ‘Running Out of Time’
            Sunday, 03 Feb 2013 01:06 PM
            By Michael Kling | MoneyNews.com

            The financial system is like a supernova star that grows until it runs out of energy, explodes and collapses, warns Bill Gross, managing director of fund giant Pimco.

            Its fuel is central banks’ loose monetary policies, which are becoming increasingly ineffective at promoting real economic growth, Gross writes in his monthly investment outlook report.

            Total U.S. credit outstanding is now at $56 trillion and growing, Gross writes. “It is a monster that requires perpetually increasing amounts of fuel, a supernova star that expands and expands, yet, in the process begins to consume itself.”

            Expanding credit increasingly goes to creditors and market speculators and less and less to real economic growth. Instead of promoting small-business development, investment banking is dominated by leveraged speculation and Ponzi finance when additional credit is needed just to cover interest payments.

            “Each additional dollar of credit seems to create less and less heat,” he states. “In the 1980s, it took $4 of new credit to generate $1 of real [gross domestic product]. Over the last decade, it has taken $10, and since 2006, $20 to produce the same result.”

            To see the impact of zero-based interest rates, look at Japan, which he calls a “credit market supernova, exploding and then contracting onto itself.”

            “Money and credit may be losing heat and running out of time in other developed economies as well, including the U.S.,” Gross writes.

            His supernova example is “more instructive than literal,” he adds, saying the end of the global monetary system is not near.

            Still, we’re running out of time, and the countdown to the financial system’s end starts when investments have too much risk for too little return.

            Central banks and private banks must generate real, or at least nominal, economic growth or the “risk of credit market entropy will increase.”

            Gross recommends investors prepare for inflation by buying short-term bonds and TIPS, moving money to countries with less debt and safer credit systems such as Australia, Brazil, Mexico and Canada, investing in global equities with stable cash flows and seeking gold and other commodities that you “can sink your teeth into.”

            Many other experts are not as fearful as Gross is.

            Goldman Sachs’ Abby Joseph Cohen predicts corporate earnings growth of 12 to 13 percent this year.

            “The U.S. economy is showing some dynamism,” said Cohen, who sparred with Gross at a Barron’s Roundtable discussion. “Exports have been robust. Only one sector of the economy isn’t growing: government spending.”

            Jack Bogle, founder of The Vanguard Group, says the rise in the Dow Jones Industrial Average recently means little for the economy.

            “I don't think the economic signs are going to change very much.” Bogle anticipates growth of 2 to 2.5 percent for this year. “That hasn't changed whether the Dow is 14,000, or 12,000 or 16,000.”

             
          • posted at 5:05 pm on Tue, Feb 5, 2013.

            Posts:

            I took down the references to a personal email account that were posted here. Even if you are willing to share your real name, we would like you to keep your contact information off the site. Thanks.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 12:44 pm on Tue, Feb 5, 2013.

            jennydoe Posts: 2198

            HTIC: seems we have a growing food fraud problem:
            -----------
            yes, and it is called Monsanto.

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 12:09 pm on Tue, Feb 5, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            HighTechCowboy posted at 8:35 am on Tue, Feb 5, 2013.

            Tuesday, 20 January 2009
            Is a Muslim Gandhi possible?

            Ramin Jahanbegloo

            "My reading of the Quran has convinced me that the basis of Islam is not violence but is unadulterated Peace”, affirmed Mahatma Gandhi. “It regards forbearance as a superior to vengeance. The very word ‘Islam’ means Peace, which is nonviolence. My experience of all India tells me that the Hindus and the Muslims know how to live at Peace among themselves. I decline to believe that the people have said good-bye to their senses, so as to make it impossible to live at Peace with each other, as they done for generations. The enmity cannot last forever.”

            http://www.resetdoc.org/story/00000001108

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 11:34 am on Tue, Feb 5, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            mooseberryinn posted at 10:43 am on Tue, Feb 5, 2013.

            Mooseberry-"Gun "control" laws. (2nd amendment attacks)."

            IABD- What are you worried about? The NRA has it all under control. Max Baucus just received an A+ rating from the NRA after recovering from a B. He's standing up for Montana Jobs. If he runs for the Senate again, we'd likely expect to see a photo-op of Max cheerfully working side by side with the slave labor crew at HTC's non-union assault rifle manufacturing plant.

            Jon Tester received an A- rating from the NRA as well. Tester refused to take a position, saying “As Congress considers ways to address gun violence, we must look at all aspects of this issue. Our priority must be keeping all Americans–especially our kids–safe. I will look closely at all proposals on the table, but we must use common sense and respect our Constitution.”

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 11:21 am on Tue, Feb 5, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9901

            On a different note, seems we have a growing food fraud problem:

            http://www.thedailymeal.com/worst-food-fraud-items-slideshow

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 10:57 am on Tue, Feb 5, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9901

            kohana: Chicago Democrat Judge Found Not Guilty of Battery By Reason of Insanity, Reelected Anyway

            HTC: I always thought that the only requirement to be a liberal Democrat was to be stupid. I see now that I'm going to have to add "crazy" to the list.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 10:54 am on Tue, Feb 5, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9901

            mooseberryinn: Many Canadians are extremely bitter about the leftist take over of their country.

            HTC: Very true.

            I have a number of friends from Alberta who've joked for years that they wished the U.S. would annex Alberta. They quit joking about that after Obama's re-election. Now they're convinced that we're dumber than their own liberals.

            mooseberryinn: The thousands [of Canadians] who seek medical care [in the U.S.] rather than die waiting for their "system" to work.

            HTC: This is now a real sore point with my Canadian friends, two of whom work for their broken healthcare system. They are outraged with ObamaCare which is driving up our healthcare costs, forcing them to pay more to get their healthcare here that they can't get back home. They know that ObamaCare is going to dramatically drive up healthcare costs and health insurance costs and can't understand why Americans don't seem to understand that.

            I keep referring them back to their previous conclusion that we're dumber than their own home-grown liberals.

             
          • mooseberryinn posted at 10:43 am on Tue, Feb 5, 2013.

            mooseberryinn Posts: 2690

            IABD 0943 2/5/13 - Variations of the same have been around for decades. but if you wish to massage your ego with claiming it's yours, go right ahead.
            Gun "control" laws. (2nd amendment attacks). King Obama and his regime flunkies know exactly what they are attempting, and will tell any lies necessary to weaken the 2nd amendment. It would not surprise me at all if our Supreme Court were to suddenly suffer the loss of a conservative judge or two. That would serve Chairman Obama's goals well. Well meaning, but uninformed advocates of gun "control" deserve only contempt. they are speaking without benefit of any attempts at educating themselves on the issues, or in the case of self-image issues they wish to be noticed. Either way, they are serving as King Obama's pawns in fomenting civil unrest.
            Canadians - my guess would be there are millions of weapons hidden (unaccounted for) in Canada. Hopefully, that will remain true.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 10:41 am on Tue, Feb 5, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9901

            Claus posted at 7:31 am on Tue, Feb 5, 2013.

            Sadly, after watching the process described in California for over 30 years before fleeing myself in 2005, I must agree with your conclusions.

            CA is breathing for now, hopelessly oblivious to its coming bankruptcy, but it is coming and it won't be pretty. I just hope that the rest of the country isn't forced to bail them out like we were forced to do for New York in the '70s.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 10:27 am on Tue, Feb 5, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9901

            Rob123: Neither, however were Piven and Cloward and their admirers the powerful, malevolent conspirators they're now being made out to be.

            HTC: I think it's fair enough to make the claim that Piven and Cloward did not act with malevolence; however, that does not absolve them of guilt for the 'unexpected' consequences of their poor and ill-considered political acts.

            As the old saying goes: "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

            Like all other socialist idiots I've known, I'm certain that Piven and Cloward were well-intentioned; but, one's intentions mean little to the victims of others stupidity. Accepting 'ownership' of the negative outcomes of their harebrained policies is not something that comes naturally to liberals, nor is learning from those failures.

            Instead, they have a reflexive response which is to say something to the effect of "But we meant well", as though all should be forgiven at that point.

            The dictionary provides as one definition of the word "evil", something which is "harmful or injurious." Millions have been harmed by liberal policies and our nation now stands on the brink of real bankruptcy, our children's futures mortgaged to the hilt, by liberal social policy.

            It may be unintended evil but it is liberal evil nonetheless.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 10:06 am on Tue, Feb 5, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9901

            kohana posted at 10:29 pm on Mon, Feb 4, 2013

            A very clear warning about the dangerous anti-gun idiots on the left. It is not mere coincidence that the vast majority of those who favor 'assault' weapons bans and magazine capacity limits are profoundly ignorant about guns in general and ARs/AKs/etc. in particular and typically don't even own firearms themselves.

            Legislating about things they don't understand is a liberal forte.

            The Canadians have the disadvantage of not having a Constitution which explicitly contains protections similar to our Second Amendment. Their only legal defense of a right "to keep and bear arms" is rooted in English Common Law and arguable interpretations of their Charter of Freedoms and Rights which is a Bill of Rights of sorts but which only loosely refers to the "security of a person" as one of those rights.

            With the Second Amendment on their side, I can guarantee that far more Americans would defy a gun-grab than has been the case in Canada. Enacting such legislation would be a profoundly stupid move and carry a high political cost for those who enact it. I think most Democrats in Congress know that and aren't eager to carry Obama's water on this one.

             
          • who new posted at 10:01 am on Tue, Feb 5, 2013.

            who new Posts: 367

            Claus: “There will be despotism —soft at first, hard in the end.”

            There is little doubt California is going down the tubes. Detroit on steroids. The challenge for the rest of the country is to learn from California’s mistakes. Too bad for Californians, hope for the rest of us.

            “Our contemporaries are constantly excited by two conflicting passions: they want to be led, and they wish to remain free. As they cannot destroy either the one or the other of these contrary propensities, they strive to satisfy them both at once. They devise a sole, tutelary, and all-powerful form of government, but elected by the people. They combine the principle of centralization and that of popular sovereignty; this gives them a respite: they console themselves for being in tutelage by the reflection that they have chosen their own guardians. Every man allows himself to be put in leading-strings, because he sees that it is not a person or a class of persons, but the people at large who hold the end of his chain.

            By this system the people shake off their state of dependence just long enough to select their master and then relapse into it again. A great many persons at the present day are quite contented with this sort of compromise between administrative despotism and the sovereignty of the people; and they think they have done enough for the protection of individual freedom when they have surrendered it to the power of the nation at large.”

            Alexis de Tocqueville, 1835, Democracy in America

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 9:43 am on Tue, Feb 5, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            mooseberryinn posted at 5:59 am on Tue, Feb 5, 2013.
            Oh, p.s. - IABD - try to come up with some original stuff rather than stealing comic lines.

            IABD- I originally wrote the comic lines below over 4 years ago when it was Obama vs Bush. If there is another comic using the joke please tell me who.

            "Hey buddy, do you still remember last presidential election when you expected the light at the end of the tunnel to be Romney? It must have upset you deeply when you realized the light was from the proctologist's endoscope."

             
          • kohana posted at 9:42 am on Tue, Feb 5, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            Good Grief Charlie Brown! A few just like this that post here.

            Chicago Democrat Judge Found Not Guilty of Battery By Reason of Insanity, Reelected Anyway

            Posted By Daniel Greenfield On February 5, 2013

            There are important qualities that a good judge needs. One of them is “experiencing delusions and hallucinations.”

            Judge Cynthia Brim is crazy. Not in the usual way that Democrats are crazy, but in the sense that she has been hospitalized multiple times and has been found by medical professionals to be crazy. Chicago’s crazy Democratic Party however has never stopped supporting her judgeship.

            A Democratic Party-backed judge who won re-election in November while facing battery charges was found not guilty Monday — by reason of insanity.

            Testimony revealed that Brim has been hospitalized five times after suffering mental breakdowns in the 18 years since she was first elected. In 2004, Brim was carried off the bench at a suburban courthouse after she froze while addressing her courtroom before starting the day, standing mute until someone called paramedics, her attorney said.

            Brim, 54, was diagnosed years ago with a bipolar type of schizoaffective disorder, which means she experiences delusions and hallucinations, psychiatrist Mathew Markos testified.

            The insanity verdict could aid the judge’s effort to return to the bench.

            In Chicago, being insane actually better qualifies you to be a judge. The Chicago Council of Lawyers found that Brim was not qualified, was not familiar with the law and not punctual. Lawyers routinely asked for substitutions when she was on the bench. But the Democratic Party still had her back.

            Sources told the Sun-Times that Brim made comments during her call that were “racial in nature,” accusing South Holland police officers of ticketing only black and Hispanic drivers. She also accused south suburban police officers of conspiring to get her fired, a source said.

            Another source said she recited her parents’ names, the address of her church and her license plate number and walked around the courtroom, complaining she had been run out of her last assignment.

            Despite her past, Brim will nevertheless receive the full support of the Democratic Party in the upcoming election.

            “The Democratic Party supports all Democratic judges running for retention and our literature will say ‘support’ and ‘vote yes’ for retention judges,” said Cook County party head Joe Berrios.

            Vote the party line.

            So what if the judge is unqualified, incompetent, racist and insane. She’s still a Democrat. Isn’t she?

            “At that point she is absolutely psychotic in the sense of not having the ability to think straight or to even organize her thinking or to really remember a darn thing that happened,” her attorney, James Montgomery Sr., said.

            Or as the Democrats call that; being Joe Biden.

            Article printed from FrontPage Magazine: http://frontpagemag.com

            URL to article: http://frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/chicago-democrat-judge-found-not-guilty-of-battery-by-reason-of-insanity-reelected-anyway/

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 9:35 am on Tue, Feb 5, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9901

            who new: Perhaps, to some degree, you have answered the question of why many engineers and scientists choose not to apply for jobs in California. They simply don’t want to live there!

            HTC: My 30+ years of hiring engineers and scientists with advanced degrees to work in Silicon Valley was a very enlightening experience in many ways I hadn't expected.

            For one thing, I noticed a real decline over time in the quality of home-grown engineers when compared to their foreign-born peers who'd attended the same colleges and universities here in the U.S. Their foreign-born counterparts had typically received a far-superior secondary education with a much heavier focus on mathematics and science than is typically the case in U.S. public schools, and that difference was obvious in their job performance.

            Increasingly, because of the high housing costs in Silicon Valley, crowding, crime and the massive influx of illegals, we found that foreign-born candidates were more willing to relocate to the area because of their desire to ultimately become U.S. citizens and our area was hiring more of them than were other areas in the country.

            But other factors were at play as well, including declining enrollments in engineeriing and science programs by native-born students. As an increasing percentage of students in those programs were foreign-born, their growing representation in the hiring pool made it increasingly likely that a lot of new-hires were going to be foreigners.

            The National Science Foundation, in a 2006 report, found that foreign-born students earned 36.2% of the doctorate degrees in science and 63.6% of the doctorate degrees in engineering.

            The CRS' 2010 assessment further documents this trend and our own declining enrollments in science and engineering programs, in large part due to our failing public school system which does a poor job of preparing our children for these fields:

            http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/97-746.pdf

            If we wish to maintain our competitiveness in a global economy, we need to make it easier for the world's best and brightest to emigrate to our country and become U.S. citizens, especially when you look at the fact that science and engineering degrees awarded in the U.S., as a percentage of all college degrees granted, is half of what it is in Japan, China, Germany and the U.K.

            We also need to quit denying that we have a serious problem with our public education system and start fixing it. But history makes clear that we'll have to first ban public employee unions if we're to have any chance of enacting real education reform.

             
          • kohana posted at 9:18 am on Tue, Feb 5, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            Here it is, the start of disarmament of America, one state at a time. In agreement with the UN document and what happened in Canada. It might help to read the disarmament of citizens in LA and MS during Katrina, by the 47th Army Brigade. www.infowar.com

            February 5, 2013

            New York's 'SAFE' Act: The 'Rape' of the Second Amendment
            By Michael Filozof

            In January, the New York State Legislature passed the Orwellian-sounding "SAFE" (Secure Ammunition and Firearms Enforcement) Act. The act was debated in closed session without committee hearings, and Gov. Andrew Cuomo signed it into law within an hour of its passage -- after waiving the required three-day public comment period. Cuomo bragged that New York now has the "toughest assault weapons ban" in the country but claimed that the law respects the Second Amendment and preserves the rights of "hunters and sportsmen." The former is true; the latter is a bald-faced lie. Even if you do not live in New York, you should be very worried, because the SAFE Act is a harbinger of what Democrats in the federal government will do nationwide if they can.

            The SAFE Act is far worse than you might imagine. Harold "Budd" Schroeder, member of the NRA Board of Directors from New York, described the law as "the rape of our gun rights." That is no exaggeration. The law is as harsh as (or harsher than) the gun laws of some European nations that do not have a Bill or Rights or a Second Amendment.

            The most widely reported provision of the law is the total ban on the sale of military-style rifles classified as "assault weapons," effective Jan. 15. The provision forever prohibits anyone other than a law enforcement agency from acquiring such weapons, including the popular hunting and target variants of the AR-15 rifle. Current owners of such rifles must register them with the state by 2014, and the registration must be renewed every five years. This gives the state a list of persons from which to confiscate them in the future, and the five-year renewal provision gives the state an excuse to find ways to deny ownership once every five years. Current owners of such rifles may never sell them to another New York State resident in the future.

            Shockingly enough, in many ways the "assault weapons ban" is actually one of the statute's lesser infringements on the Second Amendment. The statute criminalizes, potentially criminalizes, or places under state surveillance even the most innocuous, banal, and pedestrian forms of gun ownership, and it restricts the right of self-defense.

            The new law prohibits the sale of any quantity of ammunition by anyone other than a licensed dealer and requires that such dealer perform a criminal background check on the purchaser and forward the purchaser's name, address, age, and occupation, and the quantity, caliber, and make of the ammunition, to a State Police database. Thus, the ammunition database creates a de facto universal long gun registry. A hunter who purchases a box of five 12-gauge deer slugs may think that his purchase is innocent enough; however, it will have the effect of informing the State Police that he owns a 12-gauge shotgun, enabling them to confiscate it in the future if they so choose.

            The purchase of large quantities of ammunition will likely set off alarm bells at State Police headquarters. But what is truly sinister about the ammunition registry is that no one actually knows "how much" will be deemed "too much" -- because the law does not prohibit the purchase or ownership of any specific quantity of ammunition. Thus, one may become the target of a police investigation for engaging in a perfectly legal activity. Since many gun owners have vowed to defy the "assault weapons" registration, it is highly likely that the State Police will use the ammunition database as a means to discover and confiscate unregistered rifles.

            The ammunition registration is crucial to the law's confiscation scheme. The law affirmatively requires that a person's firearms must be confiscated if any order of protection is filed against him -- no matter how bogus the complaint may be. It also requires that a "mental health professional" (including a physician) who believes that an individual is a danger to himself or others must report his diagnosis to the police for purposes of firearm confiscation. Such a diagnosis is highly subjective and could be easily politicized. (For instance, in the 1964 presidential campaign, a group of psychiatrists "diagnosed" conservative Sen. Barry Goldwater as insane.) But the law exempts such "professionals" from civil liability; thus, any "mental health professional" who believes that all gun owners are "nuts" could initiate the confiscation of a person's firearms, and the gun owner is forbidden to file a civil suit to challenge the "diagnosis."

            The SAFE Act also severely infringes on the right of self-defense from criminal predation. Although Article 35 of New York Penal law allows the use of deadly force in the event of a home invasion, the SAFE Act restricts the ammunition capacity of all centerfire guns to seven rounds. If you possess a magazine loaded with more than seven rounds in your own home, you are guilty of a criminal offense.

            So suppose a criminal with a stolen handgun and an illegal 15-round magazine invades your home. If you shoot at him with more than eight rounds (seven plus one in the chamber), you will be criminally charged, and your magazine (and possibly your firearm) will be confiscated and destroyed without compensation, because you have now used it in the commission of a crime. Beyond that, since a handgun permit in New York is not merely a permit to carry, but a permit to possess, after you have been charged with the crime of shooting at the home invader with a high-capacity magazine, your permit will be revoked, and all of your handguns will be confiscated.

            The seven-round magazine limit effectively bans or severely restricts the use of perhaps 75% of the firearms designed in the past 100 years. Seven-round magazines simply do not exist for common firearms such as the 13-shot Browning Hi-Power pistol, first manufactured in 1935, or the 10-shot Ruger 10/22 rifle, five million of which have been manufactured since the 1960s. The M-1 "Garand" rifle, adopted by the U.S. Army in 1936, was designed exclusively to use an eight-round "clip," which will now be considered an illegal "high capacity ammunition feeding device." Although the Act "grandfathers" existing ten-round magazines, it forbids owners to put more than seven rounds in them, and it requires lawful owners of magazines capable of holding more than ten rounds to sell them out of state, surrender them, or destroy them. This is clearly an unconstitutional deprivation of private property, in violation of the Fifth Amendment.

            The law also prohibits the private "sale" or "exchange" of any firearm to any person unless a licensed dealer performs the "sale" and a background check. The politically correct law exempts parents, spouses, children, stepchildren and "domestic partners." Thus, the divorced Cuomo may legally give his live-in girlfriend Sandra Lee a firearm without a dealer transfer and background check, but if a serial rapist and murderer (such as the notorious "Bike Path Rapist" Altemio Sanchez , who terrorized women for three decades while the cops put the wrong guy in prison) is on the loose, you may not give a shotgun to your sister for self-protection. You may give your live-in gay lover a firearm, but you may not give your brother or nephew a .22 rifle on Christmas Eve. The law does not clarify how long someone must be in possession of a firearm before such possession is understood to be an "exchange"; thus, it is possible that lending a rifle to your brother-in-law for deer season without a dealer transfer and a background check could be construed as an illegal "exchange." You would then be a criminal, and the gun used in the "crime" could be confiscated and destroyed.

            Finally, the SAFE Act requires that gun owners report any "loss or theft" of a firearm or ammunition to the police within 24 hours. Failure to do so is a criminal offense. Read literally, a deer hunter in Saranac Lake who drops a single 12-gauge slug in the snow and cannot find it is a criminal unless he reports the loss to the police.

            The New York SAFE Act is one of the most breathtakingly brazen assaults on the Constitution and on individual liberty in the history of the United States. Cuomo has gleefully thumbed his nose at the Supreme Court's Heller and McDonald decisions in 2008 and 2010 affirming the right to keep and bear arms. The intent of the law is to suppress and criminalize the common use of firearms, including guns not defined as "assault weapons."

            The SAFE Act must be resisted on all levels. I urge firearm manufacturers, like Remington and Kimber, to leave New York State as soon as possible and stop paying taxes to a government that seeks to suppress the right to own their products. Firearms wholesalers and police supply outfits should boycott New York State law enforcement agencies. Gun manufacturers should refuse sales and warranty service to police agencies in the state. I strongly counsel residents of other states who value liberty to avoid New York at all costs. Avoid tourist trips to New York City; the law has made a mockery of the Statue of "Liberty." Residents of other states should avoid moving to New York under all but the most dire circumstances, and New York residents should begin making plans to leave as soon as possible.

            New York has the highest taxes in the nation. Twenty-five percent of the population is on Medicaid. It has the highest rate of union membership in the nation. It is ranked as the least "business-friendly" state in the country. There is nothing to be gained in New York (unless you are on welfare). Nothing.

            Above all else, remember that even if you do not live in New York, you cannot be complacent. The gun-banners are coming after you next.


            Page Printed from: http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/../2013/02/new_yorks_safe_act_the_rape_of_the_second_amendment.html at February 05, 2013 - 10:10:16 AM CST

             
          • Pete posted at 8:53 am on Tue, Feb 5, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Claus posted at 7:31 am on Tue, Feb 5, 2013

            [thumbup][thumbup]

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:41 am on Tue, Feb 5, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9901

            Blake posted at 9:44 pm on Mon, Feb 4, 2013

            Interested and amenable....

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:35 am on Tue, Feb 5, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9901

            IABD: Mohandas Gandhi and Allama Mashriqi believed that Hindus and Muslims could and should live in amity. Gandhi opposed the partition, saying, "My whole soul rebels against the idea that Hinduism and Islam represent two antagonistic cultures and doctrines. To assent to such a doctrine is for me a denial of God."*

            HTC: Apparently, and like so many who insist that Islam is a 'religion of peace', Gandhi never read the Quran. Had he actually studied it, he'd have known that real Islam is duty bound to convert the Hindu people or enslave/kill them if they won't convert.

            Ignorance can and does get people killed.

             
          • Claus posted at 7:31 am on Tue, Feb 5, 2013.

            Claus Posts: 399

            There won't be any securing of the border. There won't be any magic assimilation of millions of illegals. There won't be any utopia. There will be a lot of organized deception on the part of big media and big government. There will be a flattening and destruction of the middle class. There will be despotism —soft at first, hard in the end.

            http://pjmedia.com/victordavishanson/california-at-twilight/?singlepage=true

             
          • bill39 posted at 6:32 am on Tue, Feb 5, 2013.

            bill39 Posts: 1051

            HTC: Since English is generally recognized around the world as the language of global commerce, it's numbers are growing faster than any other language.

            Remember when they(govt) tried to ram the metric system down our throats? Seems their strategy has changed to a tiny bit at a time.

             
          • bill39 posted at 6:25 am on Tue, Feb 5, 2013.

            bill39 Posts: 1051

            kohana: which outlined a long term agenda to carry out a “Program for General and Complete Disarmament in a Peaceful World.”

            Long term agenda are the key words. A tiny bit at a time(read Obamers exec. orders).

            kohana: The manufacture of armaments would be prohibited except for those of agreed types and quantities to be used by the U.N. Peace Force and those required to maintain internal order. All other armaments would be destroyed or converted to peaceful purposes,” states the document.

            Sounds like the utopian view democrats also hold. Sounds good tho to someone who cannot think outside the box.

             
          • bill39 posted at 6:05 am on Tue, Feb 5, 2013.

            bill39 Posts: 1051

            Frank: OF COURSE it feels good for voters when the government gives them something for nothing, and it feels good for politicians when they get elected and then re-elected endlessly, which it turns out is just what happens when you give voters something for nothing.

            To re-elect politicians endlessly is a sign of a lazy apathetic majority. Just because they get off their duff and vote they think they are doing the responsible thing. Sad.


            kohana:IABD is our own homegrown, local TROLL; he will contradict Frank on every single issue, as well as anyone who might agree with Frank’s opinion. He is holding a grudge against Frank, thus will disagree out of shear cussedness. I no longer even read his posts, a complete waste of time; especially trying to untangle his convoluted thought processes.

            Seems that way. I quit reading his posts early last week.

             
          • mooseberryinn posted at 5:59 am on Tue, Feb 5, 2013.

            mooseberryinn Posts: 2690

            Kohana - "The Canadian Perspective". Well done. Many Canadians are extremely bitter about the leftist take over of their country. Note the thousands who come here to shop and save mega-bucks. The thousands who seek medical care rather than die waiting for their "system" to work. It is a shame that the brain-washed obamatons choose to ignore the warnings.
            other items - Gun "control" - has nothing to do with firearms. Has everything to do with attacking our constitution. Obama/Demo-dummy care - a vast failure full of corruption, pay-offs, etc. thanks Max and Jon. This has nothing to do with improving health care, everything to do with "holding down costs", King Obama's agenda of transformation, pay-offs for campaign contributors, and killing off seniors. (they cost too much ya know). Sadly, there are way too many ignorant, and astoundingly stupid obama worshipers, who cheer the on-going destruction while handing over their liberty, their freedom, etc. in an amazing frenzy of idol worship. IABD is a prime example, celebrating the last election of a known liar as he suddenly changes course to further crush "working class" Americans. Oh, p.s. - IABD - try to come up with some original stuff rather than stealing comic lines.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 3:10 am on Tue, Feb 5, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6600

            "Cloward and Piven, immigration reform & ‘nothing left to lose’ "
            "The progressives’ plot to bankrupt the United States was formally presented in the May 2, 1966, issue of The Nation magazine. An article entitled “The Weight of the Poor: A Strategy to End Poverty,” written by the husband and wife team of Frances Fox Piven and Richard Cloward, proposed collapsing the “feel good” government of the United States under “the weight of the poor.”
            Adapting the philosophy of jiu-jitsu — where you use your enemy’s strength to defeat him — Cloward and Piven proposed taking advantage of the spirit of American generosity to crash our economy. The idea was to create an ever-growing demand for social services (“free stuff,” as Mitt Romney injudiciously but accurately called it) until the money ran out and the suddenly re-impoverished lower classes rebelled and demanded a new system of government that would “equitably” distribute the nations’ wealth in a Marxist utopian pipe dream."
            -----------------------------------------------------------------

            Glenn Beck and Fran Piven

            You may not know Francis Fox Piven, the left-wing social scientist, but this New York magazine item sums the situation up fairly well:

            Glenn Beck has made repeated mention lately of Frances Fox Piven, a 78-year-old liberal academic and CUNY professor. In Beck's view, Piven's a veritable enemy of the Constitution who's responsible for a plan to intentionally "sabotage" the American economic system. Piven, pictured, actually authored The Nation story that led Beck to this conclusion 45 years ago. It's called "The Weight of the Poor: A Strategy to End Poverty," and proposes "that if people overwhelmed the welfare rolls, the system could force reform and give rise to changes like a guaranteed income." Somehow, Beck links what he termed "the Cloward-Piven Strategy" to Obama's statement during the 2008 presidential campaign that "we are days away from transforming America." Beck also accused Piven of "inciting violence" in The Nation this month by writing that unemployed people should be staging protests. Anonymous visitors to Beck's website have now called for this lady's death, and some, she said, have even contacted her directly.

            Piven is now receiving death threats.

            I'm one of the few people not subscribing to The Nation in 1966 who has actually gone back and read that article, which I did in the mid-90s as I was thinking about the history of where the left had gone wrong. To be sure, Piven and Cloward's welfare rights strategy was wrongheaded and self-defeating, as I wrote in the mid-90s.

            They thought that John Lindsay and Lyndon Johnson would see that their voting coalitions would be threatened by a mass uprising of poor people demanding to be put on welfare, and would perforce respond with action - for example a guaranteed income, as the above piece says. It apparently didn't occur to them that the system would just regard rabble-rousing black people as a phenomenon to be ignored or quashed.

            It's fair to call it radical, I guess, but it is obvious to any even-keeled reader that their goal was to make the system more responsive to poor people. Beck is either really stupid, which I doubt; or being completely dishonest for the sake of ratings, which I do not doubt.

            Jim Sleeper, also not a defender of Piven's on these matters, nevertheless defended her as I do against these attacks, writing at TPM Cafe:

            But Piven and Cloward's call for a racialized "Politics of Turmoil," which they celebrated in a book by that name and excerpted in The Nation in 1966, held no solutions for American political culture, unjust and hypocritical though that culture often was. It certainly offered no sound strategy for a socialist agenda by relying on a politics of racial paroxysm.

            Neither, however were Piven and Cloward and their admirers the powerful, malevolent conspirators they're now being made out to be. They weren't the reasons why the liberal capitalist welfare state, such as it was, damaged its supposed beneficiaries...

            ...I rest my case -- against Piven & Co. for being so hapless, but, even more, against Beck et al for trying to make political hay out of leftist radicals supposedly holding "such power over the lives of innocents," as McWhorter puts it. All Beck is doing is shifting the blame from where it really belongs. Only perversely hypocritical conservatives -- and perhaps a deranged loner -- would fall for phony indignation like this. That's why we have to take heed and speak out against Beck and Fox News.

            Today, Piven is a 78-year-old woman receiving death threats. And really, who knows? It's frightening and sickening. And of course I should add that the welfare-rights movement is not the only thing she ever did in her life. She was the brains behind Motor-Voter legislation, which I think has served our country very well.

            It's never been particularly controversial that I'm aware of. But watch that change. What's really at stake here, aside from Piven's well being, is the continual twisting of American history into some paranoid right-wing fable, whether it's Woodrow Wilson was a fascist or Fran Piven wanted to overthrow the government. Liberals need to be aware that all this history we think is settled is being contested fiercely.

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 12:31 am on Tue, Feb 5, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            mooseberryinn posted at 9:31 pm on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

            Hey buddy, do you still remember last presidential election when you expected the light at the end of the tunnel to be Romney? It must have upset you deeply when you realized the light was from the proctologist's endoscope.

             
          • who new posted at 10:54 pm on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

            who new Posts: 367

            HTC: “I have to respectfully disagree with you on this point, based upon 30+ years as a hiring manager in Silicon Valley. When filling positions requiring advanced degrees in computer science and engineering, we had a more difficult time and often, when we did find a suitable 'home-grown' candidate, they declined after seeing the area, its housing prices and the large pockets of Tijuana-like ghettos which riddled the area.”

            Perhaps, to some degree, you have answered the question of why many engineers and scientists choose not to apply for jobs in California. They simply don’t want to live there! I personally have friends and family members who are highly skilled engineers, computer experts, and doctors who have no desire to live in California, or left when they realized what it was really like.

            Good for Montana, though, I don’t mind our brighter talent staying in the state.

             
          • kohana posted at 10:29 pm on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            http://jpfo.org/articles-assd03/canadian-2a-warning.htm

            Gun Control - A Canadian Perspective

            Letter to the Editor
            By Phil Hewkin, February 3rd 2013.

            JPFO preface: To remind everyone of the old expression "It can't happen here". Take good note of what is below and make your mantra "Do NOT let it happen here".

            Dear JPFO,

            I write as a supporter of our collective just cause, which is the protection of liberty and property rights for all, including and especially, the right to bear arms. I am very concerned about what I observe in America today. The mainstream media in America shows extreme anti gun bias, they desperately, foolishly cling to concepts like; magazine restriction/military appearance/universal background checks.

            I can attest to the failed gun control agenda in Canada. The leftist mantra of public safety was chanted unwaveringly by the very similar main stream consensus media. It is noteworthy that CANADIAN C.B.C. and C.T.V. are publicly funded, in excess of a billion dollars annually, and that their liberal leaning is as obvious as it is despicable. Even today, with a clear Conservative Government majority, media consensus remain unanimously anti gun, anti-liberty, and anti conservative despite public funding actually being increased to those corporations by Conservative Government.

            The Truth is never told in Canada, with exception to SUN NEWS MEDIA. The Canadian reality is that Federally FORCED, CRIMINALIZING gun-owner licensing, called Possession/Acquisition License, or P.A.L. (Canadian equivalent of Universal Background Checks) remains largely unsupported by the majority of Canadians who continue to possess firearms minus the P.A.L., despite threat of prison, confiscation and criminalization.

            These laws in the Criminal Code of Canada thrust honest Canadians into a "GUILTY until PROVEN INNOCENT" reverse-onus status. This has resulted in hundreds of thousands of legitimately held firearms being confiscated and destroyed, despite promises that no guns would be confiscated. there is no process of appeal. There is no compensation for loss.

            Compliant Gun owners, who obtain a license, have their highly detailed personal information kept in a CPIC police Database, with CONTINUOUS BACKGROUND CHECKS. This database has been HACKED MANY TIMES. It is NOT SECURE, this fact remains UN-REPORTED. CHECKS run 24/7, and any "hit" may result in swat-team style raids and arrests of License holders. Ironically, criminals, insane, violent, retain their right to privacy. A search warrant MUST BE OBTAINED, before police can execute any search, even repeat offender predator pedophiles retain their rights. NOT SO for average, honest, responsible Canadian Gun owners. Truly pathetic, a NON-REWARD, for those who did jump through all the hoops, and became vetted gun owners. Common sense should dictate that these honest persons should be those that experience retention of rights protecting intrusions, privacy, and property. NOT SO.

            What there IS. Honest Canadians facing an array of charges under the "firearms act" Charges being laid by a prejudiced police, and upheld by extremely prejudiced unelected APPOINTED anti-gun judges. In most cases, charges are reduced, or dismissed in absence of any real crime, if firearms are surrendered for destruction. In the advent that a citizen has the means and fortitude to legally challenge the charges, most times firearms can be recovered and charges dismissed, but at a cost of $10,000.oo-$25,000.oo and much more, for legal fees. The process is the punishment. An estimated 2 million Canadians remain non compliant, unlicensed. The number could be much higher, but due to the demographics, Canada being such a vast country, it is near impossible to have an accurate number.

            We have had a small victory in that the Long Gun Registry was repealed. The current Government actually had promised to repeal Bill C-68 in its entirety. as of appx. 2006 they did change their terminology and would only refer to these horrible Liberal gun laws as "The Long Gun Registry" Before this, P.A.L. criminalizing licensing was included in the "promise to repeal". I wrote my own Member of Parliament MANY times, as I feared that this watered down commitment would result in the largest/worst part of these laws would remain in force. Holy COW was I right. In fact, remaining Forced federal Licensing places the stigmatism of criminality MINUS any proven act or threat, upon a peaceful, law abiding segment of society who are proven, by their actions and history, to be the safest and most responsible segment of society, simply for continuance to own that which was bought/owned legitimately. As long as the media and political bodies can effortlessly and shamelessly vilify honest gun owners by immediately attacking ONLY the honest segment of gun owners with their vitriol and hatred EVERY TIME some deranged crack-pot goes on a shooting spree, we will continue to be the victims of politically-correct extreme prejudice.

            Unfortunately, every one of Obama's executive orders, and senator Feinstein's bill, will only achieve the same, unending harassment of honest gun owners and restrictions on their 2nd Amendment rights, while real criminals and insane people carry on their business as usual. I sincerely hope that America will be restored to sanity before this vile, unworkable design has undone liberty in that country. I would very much recommend, in hindsight of an inside observation of the Canadian experiment, that all concerned become steeped in the facts, and actively oppose this rampant gun control stupidity, NIP IT IN THE BUD, before Americans are made subject to onerous requirements, offensive intrusions, and political and legal perversions causing a new class of criminality where no real crime has taken place, save the vastly offensive mass of HATE CRIME that has become busy work for media, police, Judges and courts. THIS IS FAILED SOCIAL ENGINEERING POLICY. It fails to save EVEN ONE LIFE.

            I give permission for this communication to be used for JPFO to print. R.I.P. Aaron Zellman.
            May the message communicated so succinctly in the production "Innocents Betrayed" permeate social consciousness, and spare eventual future genocide, that civilian disarmament brings.

            Sincerely, Phil Hewkin, Prince George B.C. Canada.
            philhewkin@telus.net


             
          • kohana posted at 10:19 pm on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            Blake, you could ask Frank to forward your email to HTC directly, and you won't need to post a direct contact.

             
          • Blake posted at 9:44 pm on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

            Blake Posts: 162

            HTC, I confess to skepticism about the need you've expressed for high-tech immigrants. I'm not doubting that you've honestly described your experience. My skepticism is whether your conclusion is valid, once the overall picture has been examined.

            You make at least one point in your description that's new to me and might well be new to people I know who are much more in-depth on this aspect of our immigration madness than I am.

            But having a back and forth here to pursue that point, and possible others, is too awkward.

            So .. if you're interested and amenable, I'll next post an email address here that you could use to contact me directly.

             
          • mooseberryinn posted at 9:31 pm on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

            mooseberryinn Posts: 2690

            hey...IABD...Better check your CO monitor. seems you're growing major stupid like fungus there buddy. Love your stuff. Very funny. Been watching Chris Mathews lately?

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 9:05 pm on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            kohana posted at 6:24 pm on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

            Mohandas Gandhi and Allama Mashriqi believed that Hindus and Muslims could and should live in amity. Gandhi opposed the partition, saying, "My whole soul rebels against the idea that Hinduism and Islam represent two antagonistic cultures and doctrines. To assent to such a doctrine is for me a denial of God."*

            *Hanson, Eric O.. Religion and politics in the international system today. Cambridge University Press,. p. 200. ISBN 0-521-61781-2. Retrieved 9 December 2011.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_of_India

             
          • kohana posted at 7:19 pm on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            I just came upon this, explains the current grab for our guns by our government, if true; we are so sucked!

            UN Gun Grab Follows State Department Plan

            “Complete disarmament” of the American people

            Paul Joseph Watson

            Infowars.com
            Monday, July 16, 2012

            The UN Arms Trade Treaty that has been identified by observers as a flagrant threat to the second amendment and which Barack Obama is determined to sign has its roots in a 1961 State Department memorandum which explains how the United Nations will oversee “complete disarmament” of the American people under the ruse of preventing war.

            The UN Arms Treaty has caused so much controversy because it outlines a plan to target “all types of conventional weapons, notably including small arms and light weapons,” according to Forbes’ Larry Bell.

            Former US Ambassador to the UN John Bolton also warns that the agreement “is trying to act as though this is really just a treaty about international arms trade between nation states, but there is no doubt that the real agenda here is domestic firearms control.”

            A letter sent last month by 130 Republican House members to President Obama argued that the treaty should be rejected because it infringes on the “fundamental, individual right to keep and bear arms”. The letter adds that “…the U.N.’s actions to date indicate that the ATT is likely to pose significant threats to our national security, foreign policy, and economic interests as well as our constitutional rights.”

            Using the rhetoric of the threat post by terrorists, insurgents and “international crime syndicates,” the UN is busy trying to imply that all weapons are somehow involved in illegal activity on a global scale and should therefore be controlled and regulated by a global authority.

            This is precisely the same language used in a 1961 U.S. State Department briefing

            http://dosfan.lib.uic.edu/ERC/arms/freedom_war.html

            which outlined a long term agenda to carry out a “Program for General and Complete Disarmament in a Peaceful World.”

            Invoking the threat of nuclear warfare, the document spells out a plan to create a “United Nations Peace Force” that would “enforce the peace as the disarmament process proceeds.”

            While the document initially focuses on scrapping nuclear weapons, it later makes it clear that the only groups allowed to own weapons of any kind would be governing authorities, “for the purpose of maintaining internal order,” and the UN “peacekeeping” force itself, which would require “agreed manpower.”

            “The manufacture of armaments would be prohibited except for those of agreed types and quantities to be used by the U.N. Peace Force and those required to maintain internal order. All other armaments would be destroyed or converted to peaceful purposes,” states the document.

            While the memorandum outlines a broader mandate to destroy national sovereignty, eviscerate national armies and institute the UN as the planet’s supreme authority with a world army, the document serves as a stark reminder that the plan for the United Nations to oversee the abolition of the second amendment has been in the works for decades.
            As Bell points out in his Forbes article, the threat of the Obama administration relying on a UN treaty to do what successive administrations have tried but failed to accomplish – taking a huge bite out of the second amendment – is by no means far fetched.

            After all, a plethora of UN treaties and international agreements have already stripped the United States of its sovereignty and its power to decide its own laws. The power to authorize U.S. involvement in wars and conflicts has now been almost completely stripped from Congress and handed to the United Nations.

            Following Barack Obama’s arrogant rebuff of Congress in seeking approval to strike Libya, during which he churlishly remarked, “I don’t even have to get to the Constitutional question,” Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta affirmed that the U.S. now requires “international permission” before deciding on its military policy.

            Other Obama-endorsed UN power grabs like the Law of the Sea Treaty (LOST) as well as Agenda 21 and sustainable development are also serving to decimate national sovereignty and remain almost completely under the radar.

            You only need to look at the European Union, which now crafts around 50 per cent of the laws made in member states like Britain, to understand how unelected global institutions can and have dictated policy on a national level.

            The UN Arms Trade Treaty presents an existential threat to the guns rights of American citizens and should be rejected for what it is – yet another attempt by the Obama administration, in the aftermath of the Fast and Furious scandal, to abolish the second amendment by stealth.

            *********************
            Paul Joseph Watson is the editor and writer for Prison Planet.com. He is the author of Order Out Of Chaos. Watson is also a regular fill-in host for The Alex Jones Show and Infowars Nightly News.

             
          • kohana posted at 6:24 pm on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/50664.stm

            “Independence and partition

            India finally won independence in 1947.

            But for Mahatma Gandhi, triumph was tempered with disappointment over the violent partitioning of the country into India and Pakistan.

            Nearly one million people died in the riots that ensued between Hindus and Muslims.
            Mahatma Gandhi had always been against the partition. The year before he had said, "Before partitioning India, my body will have to be cut into two pieces."

            But the alternative to partition was thought to be civil war between Hindus and Muslims, and so at the last minute Gandhi urged the Congress Party to accept partition.

            When he saw the extent of the bloodshed, Mahatma Gandhi again turned to non-violent protest. He went on a hunger strike, saying he would not eat until the violence stopped and India gave back the 550 m rupees (about £40m) that it was holding from Pakistan.

            But his efforts to achieve reconciliation between Hindus and Muslims eventually brought him death. He was assassinated by a fellow Hindu, Nathuram Godse, who felt that Gandhi had betrayed the Hindu cause.”

            kohana: Some might want to go to the following URL and learn how well the muslims and Hindus get along.

            http://islamicterrorism.wordpress.com/

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 5:13 pm on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            India's Mohatma Ghandi's Hindu-Muslim non-violent resistance movement inspired a fusion of cultures which foiled the British imperialistic divide and conquer strategy. Dr, Martin Luther King Jr. was also mentored by Ghandi's disciples.

            Speaking on the character of Muhammad, (pbuh) Mahatma Gandhi says in (Young India),
            "I wanted to know the best of one who holds today's undisputed sway over the hearts of millions of mankind....I became more than convinced that it was not the sword that won a place for Islam in those days in the scheme of life. It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the Prophet, the scrupulous regard for his pledges, his intense devotion to this friends and followers, his intrepidity, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in God and in his own mission. These and not the sword carried everything before them and surmounted every obstacle."

            Speaking on the character of Jesus Christ, Mahatma Gandhi said: "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

             
          • kohana posted at 3:24 pm on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            HTC: "Islamic Hindus"? Is that kind of like a Protestant Buddhist?
            This kind of ignorance is what will destroy us.

            More music for your listening pleasure:

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PXSK3iDeAI

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=h2rDCnr0eYc&feature=fvwp

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hr8VwYLcxGo


             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 2:52 pm on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9901

            IABD: I visited the silicon valley area of San Jose and Palo Alto in 2007 and found a very clean environment.

            HTC: Of course Palo Alto is much nicer than much of the rest of the Bay Area. Visiting Palo Alto and assuming the rest of the area is like it would be like visiting Belair and assuming L.A. was like it.

            IABD: English is the official state language....

            HTC: Tell that to the Democrats who control the state legislature. They ignore that just as readily as they ignore the law which requires them to print state materials (e.g., drivers manual, voters guides, etc.) ONLY in English.

            Constitutions and the rule of law mean nothing to Democrats.

            IABD: .... although 95% of Mexican-born residents are reported to speak English as well as their native version of Mexican Spanish.

            HTC: Where do you get this crap? As I said before, you do live in a world apart from the real one.

            IABD: I discovered many highly educated non-violent Islamic Hindus...

            HTC: "Islamic Hindus"? Is that kind of like a Protestant Buddhist?

             
          • kohana posted at 2:21 pm on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            For your listening pleasure:

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=MaAF_3WMJGM

             
          • kohana posted at 12:12 pm on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            February 4, 2013

            Rape Squads and Saudi Dollars
            By James Lewis

            Forget Springtime for Hitler. In the Era of Obama we have official Arab Springtime for Morsi, complete with Muslim Brotherhood rape squads going out for the very moral purpose of teaching Egyptian girls and women never to escape their sacred house arrest without a male escort. This is Shari'a law as enforced in Saudi Arabia as well as in the city of London.

            StrategyPage, an excellent military website, gives us this information about who is paying for the worldwide jihad. On the Sunni side of the street it turns out to be our friends the Saudis:

            "Where exactly did the current crop of Islamic terrorists come from? Basically, they came from Saudi Arabia... Saudi Arabia was also exporting billions of dollars, and thousands of Wahhabi preachers... Because of international media networks, Islamic terrorism was no longer a bunch of separate problems..."

            And there we are today. The Saudis are using their billions to export 7th century Arabian barbarism to the rest of the world, and the Iranian mullahs across the Gulf are exporting their version to Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon, Gaza, and Syria. But basically it's two flavors of the same criminal ideology, which sanctifies rape and killing for the sake of Allah.

            As any Muslim theocrat will tell you, women are responsible for being raped. If they cover their bodies properly and are always escorted by their fathers or brothers, they would not be raped. On the other hand, if they escape their home jails and shame the family honor they deserve death.

            Obama loves to compare himself to Abraham Lincoln, who freed the slaves. But Obama enslaved the free, which is not what Lincoln had in mind.

            To their everlasting shame, American feminists have been dead silent about what they must know is happening to tens of millions of Muslim women. Ms. Jodie Evans of Code Pink helped to make it happen.

            Feminists said nothing when ABC's Lara Logan was gang-raped right in the middle of Tahrir Square by Arab Spring progressive democrats. The liberal media have said nothing. They will cover up the rape squads. They covered up Lara Logan, didn't they?

            All this liberal "progress" happened after Mr. Obama publicly ordered our 30-year ally President Hosni Mubarak to resign because of those "spontaneous demonstrations" in Tahrir Square, "spontaneous" demonstrations known to have been organized, probably by the Moslem Brotherhood which benefited from the overthrow of Mubarak.

            This massive disaster to hundreds of millions of Arabs is now officially called the "Arab Spring" by our mendacious media. Egyptians are living in near-famine conditions. The Minister of Defense just warned about a possible breakdown of the country. Half a million Syrians have fled their homes, and at least 100,000 are believed to have died. Libya has reverted to desert tribalism. All thanks to the Arab Spring, courtesy of Barack Hussein Obama and Brother Morsi.

            When Morsi was shown on YouTube calling Jews "descendants of apes and pigs" he was not making it up; he was quoting from the Koran, his field manual.

            So much for the Springtime for Morsi in Cairo town. Some Spring. Some liberation. Some foreign policy triumph for Our Hero.

            The Koran gives open permission for slavery, especially of infidel women and children captured in holy war. They are war booty, following the ancient rule of desert war in Arabia. The men are usually slaughtered. Boys may be castrated, as the Turks did to boys destined for the sultan's palace guard, including the harem, where women were kept in lifelong imprisonment.

            Believing Muslims are a literal-minded bunch, and aren't allowed to question the words of the Koran. Rape and beatings are a routine part of slavery on the dark side of human history, which -- contrary to liberal "history" -- was not limited to the American South. Nor has it ceased today. Mohammed himself "married" more than 100 women stolen from enemy tribes, like the Arab Jewish tribe of Qureish, which was genocided thirteen centuries before Hitler got the same idea. Mohammed's favorite rape victim was six when he "married" her. All for the greater glory of Allah.

            So when the Muslim Brotherhood runs rape squads in "liberated" Egypt, which our president helped to bring to its present state of near-famine under a fascist regime, it is only going back to a sacred tradition. The Koran comes out of 7th-century Arabia and it reflects the culture of desert raiders. But all cultures are morally equivalent, so who are we to judge?

            Springtime for Morsi is the greatest foreign policy disaster for the West since Stalin took over half of Europe. The enemy is at the gates and we are keeping our eyes closed tight. In fact, our foreign policy elite is even now telling us that Iranian nukes pose no danger to the world.

            But ultimately our unspeakably corrupt and cynical political class was voted into power by people like you and me.

            When the American people resign their responsibilities of citizens, the Republic is bound for the rocks. But first, thousands and thousands of people abroad will die. Or in the case of Morsi's Egypt, they will be raped by the ruling party's rape squads, to teach them a lesson they will never forget.

            And liberal American feminists will be silent as the grave.

            Page Printed from:
            http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/../2013/02/rape_squads_and_saudi_dollars.html

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 12:08 pm on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            HighTechCowboy posted at 10:08 am on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

            I visited the silicon valley area of San Jose and Palo Alto in 2007 and found a very clean environment. English is the official state language although 95% of Mexican-born residents are reported to speak English as well as their native version of Mexican Spanish. I discovered many highly educated non-violent Islamic Hindus who spoke English more fluently than most Americans while working for slave labor wages at hotels, mechanic services and retail stores.

             
          • kohana posted at 11:59 am on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            Ah, Islam, the religion of peace, the try to get along with everyone, respect everyone.

            February 4, 2013

            NBC News Covers For Muslims' Vicious Destruction of Non-Islamic Artifacts

            By Pamela Geller

            The mainstream media continues to align itself with the jihad force. NBC News finally decides to address the Islamic destruction of ancient documents in Timbuktu, but instead of dealing honestly with this problem of Islamic contempt for the artifacts of other religions, it dares to assign this vicious, anti-human destruction to other religions.

            Ian Johnston, a Staff Writer for NBC News, writes this about the recent destruction of archaeologically important sites in Mali: "To many in the West, such actions are simply wanton vandalism. However, experts say the thinking behind it is actually part of a wider tradition of rooting out idol-worship and superstition found in Christianity and Judaism as well as Islam."

            How dare they? Jews are not destroying religious symbols, idols, churches, or mosques, ever. And Christians do no such thing, either. But Muslims have been on a jihad to destroy the religious artifacts that non-Muslim believers hold precious. Only Muslims are doing this, and they are committing the greatest archaeological crimes in human history. They are doing this daily. The enemedia is silent on these crimes except when a crime is so egregious (i.e. Timbuktu's ancient manuscript destruction) that they can't ignore it, and only then do they obfuscate it (everybody does it!) and cover it to whitewash the motive.

            The whole article uses a former jihadist as its expert. How about a legitimate source like Ibn Warraq or Robert Spencer? Ever?

            More from NBC News: "Usama Hasan -- an Islamist for about 20 years, who now works to counter extremism at the U.K.'s Quilliam Foundation -- said most Muslims had 'a kind of tolerant attitude' and a 'live-and-let-live' approach toward such things....But Hasan said he understood the mindset of those condemned as cultural vandals 'very well' as he 'used to subscribe to it.'...Hasan said there were a number of stories explaining how the Sphinx lost its nose, but one account suggests that a religious figure in the 14th century, Saim El-Dahr, tried to get rid of it."

            It's the same everywhere that Muslims seek to impose Islam. Destroy everything else, everything that is holy. In Israel, for a number of years already, there is the selected destruction of Christian and Jewish artifacts at the sites that are, of course, the places where the Jewish and Christian religions originated.

            This is an Islamic pattern sanctioned by fatwa: to destroy religious icons, statues and artifacts of all other belief systems. This is part of the ummah's campaign to falsify all other religions. They built a mosque on top of the first Jewish temple and the second Jewish temple in Jerusalem; they took over thousands of churches -- the most notable being the Hagia Sophia -- and tens of thousands of Hindu temples. They destroyed thousands-of-year-old Buddhas in Afghanistan.

            Natan Sharansky told me in a blogger interview, "For a number of years already, there is the selected destruction of Christian/Jewish artifacts which is of course the center for Jewish/Christian religion. On the temple mount, King Solomon stables up to the crusaders on...when the Taliban destroyed the Buddas in Afghanistan all the world was correctly enraged. Here we see the systematic, the biggest maybe in the history of geology/archeology, destruction of the most important artifacts for Christianity and Judaism. And the world knows nothing of this. Nobody is permitted to go and see and watch what's happening. Excavators are working there. They are taking thousands and thousands of pounds and thousands of artifacts and simply thrown out. It is perhaps one the largest archeological catastrophes in history."

            And recently in Egypt, a jihad leader called for destruction of Pyramids and Sphinx. According to MINA, "an Egyptian jihad leader, with self-professed links to the Taliban, called for the 'destruction of the Sphinx and the Giza Pyramids in Egypt,' drawing ties between the Egyptian relics and Buddha statues....Murgan Salem al-Gohary, an Islamist leader twice-sentenced under former President Hosni Mubarak for advocating violence, called on Muslims to remove such 'idols.' 'All Muslims are charged with applying the teachings of Islam to remove such idols, as we did in Afghanistan when we destroyed the Buddha statues,' he said on Saturday during a television interview on an Egyptian private channel, widely watched by Egyptian and Arab audiences." He added that Allah "ordered Prophet Mohammed to destroy idols. When I was with the Taliban we destroyed the statue of Buddha, something the government failed to do."

            And Islam web says: "There is a lot of Sharee'ah-based evidence proving that Muslims are to destroy idols and statues as long as they are able to do so, regardless of whether or not these idols are worshiped. This evidence includes the following:

            First, it was narrated that the Prophet [Muhammad] answered 'Amr bin 'Abasah when he asked him about his mission, saying that Allaah The Almighty had sent him to strengthen ties of kinship and destroy idols so that He alone would be worshipped and nothing would be associated with Him."

            Why didn't NBC report any of that? Why are they covering for this barbarity, instead of confronting it and demanding that it stop?

            Page Printed from: http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/../2013/02/nbc_news_covers_for_muslims_vicious_destruction_of_non-islamic_artifacts.html

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 11:34 am on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9901

            Blake: Highest priority must be given to cutting off the jobs magnet...

            HTC: I totally agree.

            Blake: However, HTC, if you think we have a need for "high-skilled" immigrants, I must disagree. There's no shortage of native-born technical talent, and there never has been. Claims to the contrary are as much special appeals for cheap labor as the analogous claims that we "need" the kind of low-skills, little educated people that most illegal aliens are (the latter being equivalent to saying that we have a "shortage" of native-born high-school dropouts!).

            HTC: I have to respectfully disagree with you on this point, based upon 30+ years as a hiring manager in Silicon Valley. When filling positions requiring advanced degrees in computer science and engineering, we had a more difficult time and often, when we did find a suitable 'home-grown' candidate, they declined after seeing the area, its housing prices and the large pockets of Tijuana-like ghettos which riddled the area.

            That challenge only increased over time as our public schools produced more and more high school grads who were completely unsuited for majors in the sciences and engineering and as more foreign students took their places in our colleges and universities.

            These foreigners were not cheap labor at all. They were paid the same as everyone else, native-born or otherwise. Most of them wanted to and eventually did become U.S. citizens and pay a lot of taxes to this day while consuming no social services.

            I can also assure you that every one of them that worked for me felt like our country slapped them in the face for being 'stupid' because they worked so hard and waited so many years to come here legally when all they had to do was sneak across the border and wait for the next amnesty.

            Many of them also expressed surprise at the massive federal government that we have versus the tiny one described in the Constitution which they had to study during their path to citizenship. Most of them probably know the Constitution far better than the average American.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 11:22 am on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9901

            IABD: Richard Lamm former governor of Colorado political career quickly ended when he stated elderly people who are terminally ill have a ''duty to die and get out of the way.

            HTC: Never happened, but you do live in a world apart, filled with whim and mythology.

             
          • kohana posted at 11:17 am on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109


            HighTechCowboy posted at 10:08 am on Mon, Feb 4, 2013

            Exactly! A year ago I went to visit my sister in Southern CA. I also had the opportunity to visit my ex- and the West Hollywood neighborhood in which we lived and where my children were born. A pretty little mid-class area, with a small "pocket" park where I took my children daily to play. Every window and door, on every house has wrought iron grills. The park has a steel barred fence approx 8 ft high and the locals can only access it by code or key. Two blocks away on Western Ave, has been trashed, the streets are filthy, garbage everywhere. The freeway entrances and exits are filled with trash. The area now is predominately Hispanic. My ex still lives there as he is too old to move.

            After we had separated, I moved to San Fernando Valley. Lived in Saugus first then moved to Reseda, and worked in Sylmar and Panorama City. I would never go back. The schools, even in the 60s were beginning to deteriorate, as they refused to take my 4 year old who tested at 3rd grade, 9th month level in the public school. There were no programs for gifted children in the Valley.

            In Sacramento, in the Hillsdale area, where I lived for nearly 10 years several blocks from the Foothill High School, the duplex was trashed, streets also filthy, my beautifully landscaped yard, is nothing but weeds. Area is now predominately Black and Hispanic. High school looks like a fortress. Like HTC, could go on for pages of the negative aspects that have occurred in 50 years.

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 11:08 am on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            kohana posted at 10:16 am on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

            kohana- "For those who would like to discredit Daniel Pipes, consider the source."

            http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/229059/how-save-obama-presidency-bomb-iran/daniel-pipes

             
          • Blake posted at 11:03 am on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

            Blake Posts: 162

            HTC wrote, "We MUST secure our border before ANY talk about a path to legalization of any kind is allowed to take place. We must also dramatically raise the penalties on employers who knowingly hire them and eliminate all social services for those here illegally. Finally, we must also eliminate 'anchor babies' which are then used to forgive many more family members for their violations of our immigration laws."

            That's most of the program, HTC, but the order should be different: Highest priority must be given to cutting off the jobs magnet, via national rollout of **enhanced** E-Verify (see http://www.vdare.com/articles/lamar-smith-s-legal-workforce-act-far-more-than-e-verify-and-worth-fighting-for-not-over ).

            Sealing the border is important, but not as important as denying jobs to illegal aliens and expelling them from jobs they're in now (the latter being the "enhancement" in enhanced E-Verify). Note that there are seven million illegal aliens holding **non-agricultural** jobs at this time of massive unemployment among American citizens (like 20 million).

            Denying illegal aliens jobs and public services, while also deporting any who have encounters with law enforcement, are the central aspects of the recovery strategy from mass illegal immigration that the nation needs. The strategy is termed "attrition by enforcement," and you can find it more fully described by googling on that phrase.

            Attrition by enforcement has worked whenever it's been allowed to, going back to Eisenhower's 1954 illegal-alien-removal program known as "Operation Wetback." In that case, the number of people forcibly deported was about 100,000. But about 700,000 were then inspired to leave on their own, because they could see the handwriting on the wall -- it's better to self-deport at a time partly of one's own choosing than to fear that law enforcement will catch up with you any day. (See http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0706/p09s01-coop.html and be sure to click through to second page.)

            However, HTC, if you think we have a need for "high-skilled" immigrants, I must disagree. There's no shortage of native-born technical talent, and there never has been. Claims to the contrary are as much special appeals for cheap labor as the analogous claims that we "need" the kind of low-skills, little educated people that most illegal aliens are (the latter being equivalent to saying that we have a "shortage" of native-born high-school dropouts!).

            Plus, there should be no "path to legalization" other than the traditional one: Return to your native country and go to the end of the line in front of the U.S. embassy or consulate there.

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 11:02 am on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            HighTechCowboy posted at 8:05 am on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.
            HTC: "See? Not everyone's like you. Many, like Lamm, actually get wiser as they get older."

            IABD-Richard Lamm former governor of Colorado political career quickly ended when he stated elderly people who are terminally ill have a ''duty to die and get out of the way. Hitler also ordered widespread mercy killing of the sick and disabled. Do you think both of these men are actually wise?

            HighTechCowboy posted at 8:14 am on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.
            HTC-'There is also considerable evidence that our 'Native' Americans attacked many of these settlements which preceded them, killing many and enslaving the rest.
            So, I guess our 'Native' Americans' encounters with us might be called "karma."

            IABD- You resort to inducing the readers with racially biased propaganda against 'Native Americans' as a necessary justifiable genocide. So Hitleresque of you.

            HighTechCowboy posted at 8:23 am on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.
            HTC- So you failed to give your daughter the most important gift of all: the ability to protect herself and those she loves.

            IABD- There are many more intelligent ways to protect herself and those she loves without firearms. Tell us about your daughter.

             
          • kohana posted at 10:16 am on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109


            For those who would like to discredit Daniel Pipes, consider the source. Apparently this is where IABD is getting his information not just the alphabet news medias.

            Think Progress — an organization created by George Soros and the Clintons — has joined the Muslim Brotherhood, the Hamas-spinoff CAIR and assorted Marxist groups in issuing a report on “Islamophobia,” which is a smear category designed to silence critics of Islamic terror, Islamic misogyny and Islamic hatred of Jews, gays, Christians, Hindus and other “infidels.” …..

            ….In the meantime, let me deconstruct one of the numerous lies which this “report” retails, which is the matter of the $42 million. $42 million is the kind of figure that progressive fascists like George Soros give out in a single year to organizations like Think Progress. The $42 million mentioned in the report is the total given by the seven foundations it smears over a decade for many many causes unrelated to criticism of Islamic terror, misogyny and Jew-hatred. …

            …The Think Progress report is a typical fascistic attempt to silence critics and scare donors from supporting their efforts to inform the American public about the threats we face from the Islamic jihad. Needless to say all Muslims are not jihadists or terrorists or bigots. But too many are. Muslim terrorists have a vested interest in accusing their critics of being anti-Muslim. Think Progress has joined them as enablers. This is a sad day for American liberalism and a troublesome day for America.

            http://frontpagemag.com/2011/david-horowitz/think-progress-witch-hunt/
            August 26, 2011 By David Horowitz

            Some might want to read Dr. Pipes’ article.

            http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/229059/how-save-obama-presidency-bomb-iran/daniel-pipes

            http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2010/02/02/80282/pipes-iran-obama/

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 10:08 am on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9901

            Blake posted at 10:55 pm on Sat, Feb 2, 2013

            In the 29 years I spent living and working in California, I witnessed the rapid transformation of many of its municipalities into stateside versions of Tijuana, with the attendant rise in crime and corruption and the eventual decay of formerly middleclass neighborhoods into graffiti-filled slums.

            In San Jose, the heart of "Silicon Valley", 57% of the public school student body are Hispanic - mostly Mexican - and English is barely a second language for nearly three-fourths of them. In some classrooms, classes are taught only in Spanish, even though there are native-born, non-Spanish speaking students in the class. Language "immersion" has now been turned around and applied to the children of those here legally.

            I witnessed a number of Fourth of July celebrations disrupted by demonstrations of Mexican nationals waving Mexican flags and demanding that California be given back to them because we had "stolen" it from them.

            Antibiotic-resistant strains of TB are now reaching epidemic levels in many communities in CA and have jumped to the legal population due to exposure in schools, offices and other public forums. I know one executive who frequently worked late in his office who caught it from the janitor who'd clean around him at night.

            Budgets across CA have long been strained by the extra demand in social services that these illegals represent and, during my time in Silicon Valley, I saw two-thirds of the ERs and Urgent Care clinics close, driven into bankruptcy by those illegals who flooded their facilities demanding the free care that CA law mandated they be provided.

            In the Bay Area of CA, our own children who aren't fluent in Spanish cannot get a job in law enforcement or as an EMT/paramedic. Many local government jobs also require proficiency in Spanish.

            Progressives don't hesitate for a second to demand that our own children be proficient in Spanish but we are forbidden to insist that these invaders learn our language.

            CA colleges and universites offer cut-rate tuition to the children of illegals but those who are actually citizens of this country must pay full tuition.

            I could go on much longer, for the list of absurdities and inequities is now nearly without limit, but those with the ability to understand already get the message and those who don't never will.

            We MUST secure our border before ANY talk about a path to legalization of any kind is allowed to take place. We must also dramatically raise the penalties on employers who knowingly hire them and eliminate all social services for those here illegally. Finally, we must also eliminate "anchor babies" which are then used to forgive many more family members for their violations of our immigration laws.

            We must do all this, not just to protect our country from the inevitable destruction to our economy and way of life that this peasant invasion represents but also to honor the millions of legal immigrants who got advanced degrees and spent years working their way here legally.

            The GOP must stand firm and tell Obama that we will not address "comprehensive" immigation reform until our borders are secured, business finds it too costly to hire illegals, and social services are finally unavailable to the those here illegally.

            Remove all reasons to be here and they'll self-deport in large numbers.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:23 am on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9901

            It's a beautiful day posted at 7:30 pm on Sun, Feb 3, 2013

            So you failed to give your daughter the most important gift of all: the ability to protect herself and those she loves.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:14 am on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9901

            It's a beautiful day posted at 3:57 pm on Sun, Feb 3, 2013

            Some archeological digs in the U.S. and points further south have discovered settlements dating back roughly 40,000 years and which demonstrate a level of technological advancement considerably more advanced than our so-called 'Native' Americans. There is evidence that these peoples probably came from the south Pacific while the 'Native' Americans came much later, across the Bering Strait, after the last ice age ended.

            There is also considerable evidence that our 'Native' Americans attacked many of these settlements which preceded them, killing many and enslaving the rest.

            So, I guess our 'Native' Americans' encounters with us might be called "karma."

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:05 am on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9901

            IABD: Although he’s a Democrat, he admitted he now sounds more like a Republican on a variety of issues, whether it’s immigration or entitlements.

            HTC: See? Not everyone's like you. Many, like Lamm, actually get wiser as they get older.

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 10:01 pm on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            kohana posted at 7:40 pm on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.
            IABD- The National Review is a neoconservative hate site.....What planet does Daniel Pipes live on?

            Daniel Pipes: Obama Can ‘Save’ His Presidency By Bombing Iran
            By Matt Duss on Feb 2, 2010 at 10:05 am

            Neoconservative scholar-activist Daniel Pipes has a new article on the leading conservative website National Review Online, in which he suggests that President Obama can “save” his presidency…by bombing Iran.

            Writing that “Obama’s attempts to ‘reset’ his presidency will likely fail if he focuses on economics, where he is just one of many players,” Pipes claims that the president “needs a dramatic gesture to change the public perception of him… preferably in an arena where the stakes are high, where he can take charge, and where he can trump expectations”:

            Such an opportunity does exist: Obama can give orders for the U.S. military to destroy the Iranian nuclear weapon capacity.

            Just as 9/11 caused voters to forget George W. Bush’s meandering early months, a strike on Iranian facilities would dispatch Obama’s feckless first year down the memory hole and transform the domestic political scene. It would sideline health care, prompt Republicans to work with Democrats, make netroots squeal, independents reconsider, and conservatives swoon.

            While he’s at it, why doesn’t Pipes claim that bombing Iran would also balance the budget? It’s rare that neoconservatives are so explicit about their cynical view of foreign wars as an instrument of American domestic politics, but Pipes’ argument is about as clear as it gets. Let’s remember, this is the man who George W. Bush nominated in 2003 to the board of the United States Institute of Peace, something which even born-again hawk Christopher Hitchens found to be a joke.

            For anyone inclined to believe Pipes’ delusion that airstrikes against Iran’s nuclear facilities would not lead to a wider conflagration, consider Gen. Anthony Zinni’s exploration of the question: “After you’ve dropped those bombs on those hardened facilities, what happens next?” Zinni concluded:
            Eventually, if you follow this all the way down, eventually I’m putting boots on the ground somewhere. And like I tell my friends, if you like Iraq and Afghanistan, you’ll love Iran.

            As Max Bergmann noted on The Wonk Room, what the right is truly interested in is regime change. “The day after any attack on Iran, there will be immediate calls for more military action, as Iran still might have a fully capable and operational nuclear program. The only way to be sure that Iran isn’t developing a nuclear program, it will be argued, is to launch an invasion that results in the change of regime.”

             
          • kohana posted at 7:40 pm on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            http://www.nationalreview.com/blogs/print/339650

            NATIONAL REVIEW ONLINE www.nationalreview.com

            The Corner

            The one and only.

            What Planet Does John Kerry Live On?

            By Daniel Pipes
            February 3, 2013 7:54 P.M.

            The two-day old tenure of Secretary of State John Kerry got off to a flying start today with an astonishing statement from his ambassador to Egypt, Anne W. Patterson, at a joint ceremony in Cairo to mark the delivery of four American-made F-16 aircraft:

            Today’s ceremony demonstrates the firm belief of the United States that a strong Egypt is in the interest of the U.S., the region, and the world. We look to Egypt to continue to serve as a force for peace, security, and leadership as the Middle East proceeds with its challenging yet essential journey toward democracy. … Our thirty-four year security partnership is based upon shared interests and mutual respect. The United States has long recognized Egypt as an indispensible partner.

            Comments:
            (1) Is not anyone in the Department of State aware that Egypt is now run by an Islamist zealot from the bowels of the Muslim Brotherhood whose goals differ profoundly from those of Americans?

            (2) Willfully ignorant, head-in-the-ground statements like this are the embarrassment and ruin of American foreign policy.

            (3) What a start for Kerry, whose mental vapidity promises to make Hillary Clinton actually look good in retrospect.

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 7:30 pm on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            kohana posted at 6:01 pm on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

            I wish your daughters well. I hope she succeeds in her schooling despite having to live in an Islamophobic glass house. You previously made a racially derogatory insinuation of my daughter inheriting her intelligence from her mother. FYI: I spent most of her pre-school attention with my daughter teaching her to read and write fluently before she was 4 years old. I neglected to train her to shoot a firearm all those years. However, as a third year medical student, she walks fearlessly and politely through neighborhoods you would never enter and has not an ounce of prejudice towards other religions, cultures or races. It is a brave new world for the non-violent at heart.

             
          • kohana posted at 6:01 pm on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            Blake posted at 10:55 pm on Sat, Feb 2, 2013

            I read those two articles, and it is sad what is happening in S. CA. I worked in social services in San Fernando Valley until 1970 when I gathered my two children and left for northern CA.

            However, a new group is also coming in and taking over, also from countries with out "law" being the basis of their society, Islam. Rather, it does have a law but so conflicted with our society it is unbelievable. Their men are not required to have even a modicum of self control, so their women are covered to keep them from being raped, and now calling for the covering of all girl babies and older to prevent rape. I think if I had to chose between the two cultures, I'd deal with the bribery first. However, in my old age, I don't wish to deal with either of them. And I read today that little girls in Turkey from the Syrian refugee camps are being sold to men from out of the country as "temporary wives" because of their poverty.

             
          • kohana posted at 5:46 pm on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

            kohana Posts: 2109

            Blake posted at 10:55 pm on Sat, Feb 2, 2013

            mooseberryinn posted at 8:04 am on Sun, Feb 3, 2013

            IABD is our own homegrown, local TROLL; he will contradict Frank on every single issue, as well as anyone who might agree with Frank’s opinion. He is holding a grudge against Frank, thus will disagree out of shear cussedness. I no longer even read his posts, a complete waste of time; especially trying to untangle his convoluted thought processes.

            Frank has banned him a time or two under different user names, but after a time he gets back on, guess Frank has a soft spot for him. We can all identify him, as changing user name doesn't improve his contorted thought process, nor his insults, and you can't insult him for some reason, it just flows off his back. So save your breath or rather fingers, and ignore him.

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 3:57 pm on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            HTC: Even the so-called "Native Americans" weren't native either; so, what's your point?

            http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt/community/native_american_archaeology/3316/paleoindian_period/405749

            IABD- Of course the original aboriginal people were never Americans in North and South America's continents and have recorded history in the paleoindian period as far back as 16000 years and evidence from archaeologists findings now argue Clovis and Pre-Clovis discoveries as early as 18000 to 30000 years ago.
            You won't find any culturally imperialistic physical scientists with a PHD from the distinguished NRA approved right wingnut christian fundamentalist schools making this point however.
            Blake, how old would you say the earth is, 6000 years or 4.54 billion years?

             
          • Blake posted at 3:08 pm on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

            Blake Posts: 162

            IABD writes, "If the Atlantic article by Sandra Tsing Loh is making a point for your thesis, please be aware it doesn't take a single member of the so-called elitist Democratic majority to explain there has never existed a single native English-speaking person in the history of this continent.

            "Your insistence that English become the United State's official language reflects your willingness to be comfortable as a subject to political control by England and it's royal monarchy."

            That's so incredibly incoherent, mixed with multi-dimensional stupidity, that IABD lives down to the old saw about being too dumb to pour water out of a boot that has the instructions for doing so printed on its heel.

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 3:04 pm on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            Blake posted at 1:09 pm on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.
            IABD- Former Colorado Governor Richard Lamm in the Denver Post on January 22, 2013: "Although he’s a Democrat, he admitted he now sounds more like a Republican on a variety of issues, whether it’s immigration or entitlements."

            http://blogs.denverpost.com/thespot/2013/01/22/japanese-ministers-remarks-reignite-dick-lamms-duty-die-firestorm/89037/

            Japanese minister’s remarks reignites Dick Lamm’s “duty to die” firestorm

            Where have you heard this before: The elderly should be allowed to “hurry up and die” instead of costing the government money for end-of-life medical care?

            If you’re from Colorado, you might have said former Gov. Dick Lamm, who was famously misquoted in 1984 as saying the elderly and terminally ill had a “duty to die.”

            The “hurry up and die” comment was made Monday by Japan’s finance minister Taro Aso.

            Although Aso has already backpedaled, saying he was referring to himself personally, Lamm said this morning it’s important to have the discussion that his misquote famously started. The issue isn’t “hurrying people along,” Lamm said, but high-technology medicine that can keep almost anyone alive.

            “Our aging bodies can bankrupt our grandkids, and that’s a dialogue that has to be had,” Lamm said when asked about Aso’s comments. “Aging bodies are fiscal black holes in to which you can pour endless amounts of money.”

            Starting in 1975, Lamm served 12 years at Colorado’s governor, where he picked up the nickname “Gov. Gloom.” Although he’s a Democrat, he admitted he now sounds more like a Republican on a variety of issues, whether it’s immigration or entitlements.

            Lamm’s father, who died of natural causes at the age of 98 without any high-tech medicine, received 60 times more from Social Security than he paid into it. In contrast, the former governor said, his two children will be lucky to get out of it what they paid into it.

             
          • Pete posted at 2:52 pm on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            HTC...Better be careful, IABD might break out the Judo and Jiu-Jitsu. [beam]

             
          • Pete posted at 2:50 pm on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            HighTechCowboy posted at 2:42 pm on Sun, Feb 3, 2013

            "...what's your point?"

            The top of his head. [wink]

             
          • Pete posted at 2:47 pm on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            In honor of his majesty's warning against photo-shopping his image. Here are some of my favorites so far:

            http://thepatriotperspective.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/obama-shotgun-picture-with-first-amendment-2.jpg

            http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/585/54988043002516041305416.jpg/sr=1

            http://gopthedailydose.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/397476_573694302659791_1174872240_n.jpg

            http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j186/DonaldDouglas/Second%20Americaneocon/Poster_Obama_Children_Guns_Parents.jpg

            And last, but not least...regarding the Messiah's "don't photo shop" edict. Kiss my [censored]

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 2:42 pm on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9901

            IABD: ...there has never existed a single native English-speaking person in the history of this continent.

            HTC: Even the so-called "Native Americans" weren't native either; so, what's your point?

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 2:39 pm on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9901

            Pete: So much for the shining city on a hill - you want to see the future of America...look at Chicago, the rotten heart of progresssive American policy.

            HTC: Actually, while Chicago is in an advanced stage of decline due to progressive rot, Detroit is further down that road to ruin and illustrates what ultimately awaits for Chicago and most other progressive-dominated cities.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 2:36 pm on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9901

            Blake posted at 1:09 pm on Sun, Feb 3, 2013

            Governor Lamm is absolutely correct. History makes clear that the balkanization of a people by language and culture is disastrous both economically and politically.

            The myth of cultural diversity making a country stronger is just that - a myth. It is a myth based upon another myth; namely, that all cultures are created equal.

            Western culture is responsible for 98% of the world's inventions and scientific discoveries. It has also produced the highest standards of living in the world.

            None of that is by chance.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 2:27 pm on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9901

            IABD: Being that the Spanish language is still more dominant throughout the world we should politely learn it for economic reasons.

            HTC: Once again, you're dead wrong. Mandarin Chinese (1.15 billion) has the most first and second speakers, followed by English (1 billion), THEN Spanish (500 million):

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_total_number_of_speakers

            Since English is generally recognized around the world as the language of global commerce, it's numbers are growing faster than any other language.


             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 2:17 pm on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            Blake posted at 1:00 pm on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

            Blake- "Regarding my point 2b, here's something from the March, 2008 Atlantic by Sandra Tsing Loh: "Such language acquisition could be greatly speeded via meaningful contact with native speakers, but, as the authors of Learning a New Land: Immigrant Students in American Society point out, few immigrant youngsters have 'even one native English-speaking friend.'

            IABD- If the Atlantic article by Sandra Tsing Loh is making a point for your thesis, please be aware it doesn't take a single member of the so-called elitist Democratic majority to explain there has never existed a single native English-speaking person in the history of this continent.
            Your insistence that English become the United State's official language reflects your willingness to be comfortable as a subject to political control by England and it's royal monarchy.

             
          • Pete posted at 1:51 pm on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Panetta: Info From Waterboarding Led US To Bin Laden

            http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2013/02/03/Defense-Secretary-Panetta-Admits-Information-from-Waterboarding-Led-US-to-Bin-Laden

            Of course in this case it was okay because it was fuzzy little liberals in charge and they know how to use such techniques in a way that brings the world together. I'm sure they used only vitamin enriched, twice purified spring water packaged in recycled aluminum bottles and hemp towels, hand-woven by illegal aliens as part of a government sponsored work program. He//, Biden probably held the Arab-Muslim-Freedom Fighter down while Obama poured the water and Hillary played Lennon's "Imagine" on the ukelele. (Pictures to follow) And when the "Freedom Fighter" went back to his cell and the others asked him how it went, I'm sure he told them, "Well they nearly killed me, but the music was great, my skin feels refreshed, and I got an awesome towel...allahu akbar and God Bless Americia.

             
          • Pete posted at 1:10 pm on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            (Reuters) - Civil rights leader Jesse Jackson and relatives of victims of fatal shootings in Chicago urged President Barack Obama on Saturday to come back to his hometown and address the gun violence plaguing the city.

            "When the president shows up, it shows ultimate national seriousness," said Jackson, a Chicago resident. He also called for the U.S. Department of Homeland Security to help patrol the streets of Chicago.

            http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/03/us-usa-crime-chicago-idUSBRE91200X20130203?feedType=RSS&feedName=politicsNews&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&dlvrit=574655

            This is just the next step in the "problem, reaction, solution" strategy being employed by the left to achieve their ultimate goal...a STATE with unlimited power to create a "progressive" utopian society. So much for the shining city on a hill - you want to see the future of America...look at Chicago, the rotten heart of progresssive American policy.

             
          • Blake posted at 1:09 pm on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

            Blake Posts: 162

            Rob also wrote at 2:52 a.m., "[B]eing bi-lingual is GREAT!"

            Former Colorado Governor Richard Lamm (a Democrat and a member of the elite but not of the **post-national** elite) covered Rob's point and its larger context most memorably:

            "History shows, in my opinion, that no nation can survive the tension, conflict, and antagonism of two competing languages and cultures. It is a blessing for an
            individual to be bilingual; it is a curse for a society to be bilingual. One scholar, Seymour Martin Lipset, put it this way: The histories of bilingual and bicultural societies that do not assimilate are histories of turmoil, tension, and tragedy. Canada, Belgium, Malaysia, Lebanon – all face crises of national existence in which minorities press for autonomy, if not independence."

            ( That's extracted from Lamm's talk at the 2003 annual meeting of the Federation for American Immigration Reform [FAIR]. His talk, which is titled "I Have a Plan to Destroy America: And many parts of it are underway," has received wide circulation over the years since in a couple of forms. The original version is available at http://www.thesocialcontract.com/pdf/fourteen-three/xiv-3-181.pdf )

             
          • Blake posted at 1:00 pm on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

            Blake Posts: 162

            Rob wrote at 2:52 a.m. "A rational, polite, yet firm 'Cultural Imperialism' within one's own borders, is permissible."

            Yes, that's another term for "assimilation," which is what the self-confident U.S. elites, hence American society, demanded of immigrants a century ago. After all, if they came to settle in our country, doesn't it make sense that they mostly adjust to us instead of demanding that we mostly accommodate them?

            But that's no longer the case, for two reasons:

            1. Our elites no longer demand it nor even think it's important -- or desirable. (That's specifically the elites -- by overwhelming majorities, "ordinary" Americans continue to think that such things as having everyone living in the country speak a common language are very important.)

            2. There has been so much immigration, both legal and illegal, from the Spanish-speaking countries to our south that there are now large enclaves where

            a) People can get by without learning English; and

            b) There are too few native-born Americans to assimilate to -- in language and other aspects -- for those of the newcomers who actually want to assimilate. (There's a modest fraction who do want to assimilate without having it demanded of them by the larger society.)

            Regarding my point 2b, here's something from the March, 2008 Atlantic by Sandra Tsing Loh:

            "[T]he far more vast and gloomy possibility is that most immigrant children will plunge off the college map entirely. In their isolated, maxed-out schools, they won’t master the higher-level English they need if they are to succeed. Such language acquisition could be greatly speeded via meaningful contact with native speakers, but, as the authors of Learning a New Land: Immigrant Students in American Society point out, few immigrant youngsters have 'even one native English-speaking friend.'" ( http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2008/03/tales-out-of-school/306645/ )

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 12:55 pm on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            Rob123 posted at 11:22 am on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

            I have studied Spanish, French and Latin and found it useful in my travels across the United States. Having lived and worked with Mexican's in Arizona and spoke it during the 70's and also learned many universal Native America diatribes of unspoken dying languages on the streets. Cajun French which was never taught in high school or college was a learning experience for me in Louisiana. Never did I have to carry a firearm anywhere in the United States to defend myself. If I had a failure to communicate with anyone, I mostly relied on a smile, polite manners, common courtesy with Judo and Jiu-Jitsu disciplines when necessary.

            The only time I had a firearm pointed at me was at a rock festival in the state of Washington in 1970. The rock bands were prevented from arriving at the airports and the concert ticket-holders were surrounded by many state troopers, and sheriff deputies from several counties with shotguns, rifles, mace and riot gear. Our universal language at the time was peace. We were all unarmed and peacefully left. If it were a fundamentalist christian music festival, we would have been fully prepared with AR-15's and would have been naturally given total acceptance and respect by the 'authorities'.

             
          • Tillie posted at 12:02 pm on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

            Tillie Posts: 69

            Thank you Tea Party faithful for pushing back on this issue. Please don't bow to the Republican establishment, and don't don't vote for their candidates.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 11:55 am on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6600

            "Proposed rail worries Amish"
            Tongue River Railroad would bisect southeastern Montana settlement

            http://www.greatfallstribune.com/article/20130203/NEWS01/302030018/Proposed-rail-worries-Amish?nclick_check=1

             
          • Rob123 posted at 11:22 am on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6600

            It's a beautiful day posted at 11:07

            How many of these languages do you speak?

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 11:07 am on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            Rob123 posted at 2:52 am on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.
            A rational, polite, yet firm 'Cultural Imperialism' within one's own borders, is permissible, IMHO.

            IABD- A firm 'cultural imperialism' is neither rational, polite, rational nor legal. Andrew Jackson had long wanted to remove American Indians west of the Mississippi. When he became President in 1829, he pushed for Indian removal to become official U.S. policy. Many aboriginal tribal nations being forced west had to either assimilate with the Spanish culture or be forced onto a reservation to learn the English language against their will.

            The English language may be dominant in our nation but no law exists stating it is the official language. Being that the Spanish language is still more dominant throughout the world we should politely learn it for economic reasons.

            By the way, my grandparents in Libby spoke Polish, English, French, Latin and Blackfoot fluently. Being owner's of the areas 1st full service Texaco gasoline station forced them to become cultural ambassadors out of necessity and close friends with Democrats such as Mike Mansfield and Charlie Russell.

             
          • Pequot posted at 9:11 am on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

            Pequot Posts: 525

            Whether you are for or against awarding legal status to illegal immigrants, it would seem there would be more interest seeing that much tighter border controls are implemented. After all, if we don't tighten our borders and do everything we can to reduce the opportunity and attractions to enter illegally we will be facing the same problem in the future. Let's have the foresight to close the 'holes' in our system now.

             
          • mooseberryinn posted at 8:04 am on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

            mooseberryinn Posts: 2690

            Blake- don't waste your time on IABD. Not a teachable individual.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 2:52 am on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

            Rob123 Posts: 6600

            Blake: ".....everybody in the U.S. becomes fluent in English and Spanish, then one of the two languages is superfluous and learning it represents wasted mental effort."

            I agree with the 'primary' language, although being bi-lingual is GREAT! At my uncles funeral last spring, I was sitting next to my cousin's son, a junior in High School who had spent a lot of time the past few years with his Grandpa. Good young man. However, his grandpa had been doing his French homework, while he was out cruising Vancouver, B.C. in grandpa's Mercedes, and was quite concerned about finals coming up and was asking questions about American Universities and Foreign Language requirements......."Drop the 'eh', and you'll be fine!"

            There are paths to American citizenship that are on the books, need to be clarified, and enforced. A rational, polite, yet firm 'Cultural Imperialism' within one's own borders, is permissible, IMHO.

             
          • Blake posted at 12:55 am on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

            Blake Posts: 162

            I'm a PhD physical scientist, IABD, and I could bounce a slob like you off the wall, intellectually speaking.

            So I'll respond to your off-the-wall question by pointing out that if, say, everybody in the U.S. becomes fluent in English and Spanish, then one of the two languages is superfluous and learning it represents wasted mental effort. (Exceptions for people who become international translators, spend a lot of time in countries whose tongue is the language that would be dropped here, etc.)

            As Thomas Sowell wrote, "Languages exist to serve practical purposes and they serve those purposes better, the more people in the same society speak the same language."

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 12:21 am on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            Blake posted at 10:55 pm on Sat, Feb 2, 2013

            IABD- What is your definition of E Pluribus Unim Mr. Blake? The majority of European citizens are multilingual. Would it be too difficult for your neanderthal brain to adjust accordingly, or are you an old dog that can't learn new tricks?

            "E Pluribus Unum" becomes controversial
            Published on March 13, 2011 by David Niose in Our Humanity, Naturally

            E Pluribus Unum has never been considered controversial. The motto, which is Latin for "out of many, one," was adopted by the Founding Fathers in 1782 as part of the Great Seal of the United States, intended to represent the federal nature of the nation - out of many states, one country. The framers sharply disputed many issues in the formation of the nation, but E Pluribus Unum was not one of them.

            In fact, as the nation's population has grown the motto has taken on a secondary meaning as well, reflecting the country's melting pot nature - out of many peoples, one American people. Certainly, if there's one issue we can all agree on, it's that E Pluribus Unum is an excellent statement of America and its values, right?

            Not so fast. The Religious Right, led by Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minnesota) and the Congressional Prayer Caucus (yes, our government actually has a Congressional Prayer Caucus), wants you to know that E Pluribus Unum is, well, almost un-American.

            The CPC, a leading voice of religious conservatism on Capitol Hill, recently wrote a letter to President Barack Obama, chastising him for referring to the motto E Pluribus Unum. The letter may very well reflect a new milestone in the culture wars, for never before has E Pluribus Unum been portrayed as controversial. But according to the CPC, Obama's reference to E Pluribus Unum amounts to an anti-God statement.

            As the letter shows, to the Prayer Caucus, Obama's reference to E Pluribus Unum borders on unpatriotic. They say he should instead be promoting the motto "In God We Trust," which was adopted as the national motto at the urging of religious conservatives in 1956, during the McCarthy era and at the height of the Cold War.

            With all the credibility of public figures who believe the world is only six thousand years old, the caucus wants Obama to "issue a correction." Apparently, referring to the E Pluribus Unum motto is now sacrilege in the Christian right's America. They also say Obama isn't mentioning God enough in his speeches and that he shouldn't refer to "inalienable rights" without mentioning that they come from God.

            Should we be concerned that religious conservatives, many of them biblical literalists, wield so much power in modern America, a country founded on Enlightenment principles by men who embraced science and reason? Obviously, we are a country that appreciates religious freedom, and individuals from any religious background are welcome to run for office and serve. But what does it say when large numbers of religious fundamentalists seem to easily glide to victory, while only one of the 535 members of Congress identifies openly as non-theistic (that would be Rep. Pete Stark of California)?

            It's interesting that Bachmann and her prayer caucus colleagues often claim to stand for the "values" that America needs, often wrapping themselves in the flag and proclaiming "God Bless America!" Thus the irony that they are the ones who complain about the framers' motto, E Pluribus Unum.

            For those who are concerned that an entity called the "Congressional Prayer Caucus" even exists (and is supported in any way by our tax dollars), it seems that promotion of E Pluribus Unum is a means of pushing back against the politicized theology of the Religious Right. By objecting to E Pluribus Unum, the CPC has made it a new point of contention in the culture wars.

            http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/our-humanity-naturally/201103/e-pluribus-unum-becomes-controversial
            IABD- The American Psychiatric Association is also on the NRA's hate list.

             
          • Blake posted at 10:55 pm on Sat, Feb 2, 2013.

            Blake Posts: 162

            What a frivolous lead-off comment "It's a beautiful day" has served up. Has he ever actually looked at the world beyond his own navel?

            In fact Mr. Miele is not only right, he may be more right than he knows: We're back to "comprehensive immigration reform" for which the honest label is "comprehensive capitulation to Mexico." So although not all illegal aliens are of Mexican origin ("only" about 65%), some thoughts about Mexican society and Mexicans in our society are in order.

            Therefore, consider a July, 2001 article, "Cultural Suicide," by Christopher Manion. Here are Manion's first four paragraphs:

            "Arguments for 'legalizing' the millions of Mexicans illegally in this country abound in economic references to the 'shortfall' of low-wage workers legally available. They also invoke certain mantras favorably comparing the Mexicans with the millions of Irish, Italians, Bohemians, and others who arrived legally during the immigration waves of the early twentieth century.

            "Both of these approaches are off the mark. They amount to 'argument by assertion,' and they ignore fundamental, unavoidable, and indelible realities. Putting aside the romanticism of the mythical saga of our immigrant forefathers, and the reductionist approach addressing only homoeconomicus, certain central elements emerge that we cannot ignore. They distinguish the Mexican immigration from its European counterparts, and put the economic arguments into proper – and uncomfortable – perspective.

            "Briefly stated, the legalization of this illegal alien population amounts to American cultural suicide (because it is done intentionally, rather than by accident) and a political disaster. Both of these elements deserve more than a passing glance; they deserve a depth of analysis commensurate with the gravity of their impact.

            "Both dimensions are inextricably intertwined, and their consequences are profound. Legalization’s disastrous consequences will not be visited so much on one party, or one ideological faction, rather than another. The damage is deeper, far more abiding, and irreversible by any future election or other invocation of the political process. It will powerfully contribute to the ruin of our free society and rule of law."

            Why did Manion say that? Read his whole article: http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/manion7.html

            Then read Roger McGrath's 2003 article that reveals an example of Manion's ideas playing out on the ground, this case being the Los Angeles suburb of South Gate: http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/south-gate-mexico-comes-to-california/?print=1

             
          • It's a beautiful day posted at 9:05 pm on Sat, Feb 2, 2013.

            It's a beautiful day Posts: 1832

            Another weekly nattering nabob of negativism column by Mr. Miele on behalf of the conspiratorial progressive libertarian oligarchy will attempt to show they have nothing left to lose and are not losers? If they didn't have any bad luck they would have no luck at all.

             
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