"You cannot have an opposition movement without opposition media." -Van Jones, former Green Jobs Czar for President Obama.
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Free speech and dictatorship don't mix.
Just think about it. If I were a Third World dictator and wanted to keep power indefinitely and still pretend to be legitimate, could I do so if the newspapers and television stations were all speaking out against me?
Heck no. Free speech is a powerful tool for democracy, as our Founding Fathers knew. That's why if I were a dictator, I might eventually take the step of shutting down the opposition newspapers and TV stations, like Hugo Chavez has done in Venezuela. But that has the disadvantage of confirming everyone's worst suspicions that I am indeed a ruthless dictator.
Dictators are cunning devils, however (which is probably how they got to be dictators in the first place), so they don't have to solve every problem with violence. Sometimes subterfuge can be just as effective.
Thus, if I were a subtle dictator, instead of using my police against the newspapers, I could use my legislature, or even my executive authority. It's not necessary to silence the opposition; it's just necessary to make them irrelevant. To do that, I would have to be able to make their words irrelevant, and to do that I would need to invent a "Fairness Doctrine."
What exactly is that, you ask?
Simply put, it is a policy that devalues free speech by requiring every argument put forth in public to have a mandatory counter-argument.
Sounds good in principle, I suppose, except when you value the voice of the people as a mechanism for putting a "governor" on the government. In a free society, if 80 percent of the people abhor their government, they can speak out loudly and insistently and overthrow their government peacefully.
But in a society where "Fairness" has been imposed, that is not possible. Instead, when the 80 percent speak out against my corrupt government, I would be able to demand equal time in the newspapers and radio and TV stations to tell the people why I am actually a kindly and benevolent dictator who should be thought of as the people's savior and advocate, not their enemy.
If there were a front-page article today saying my government was corrupt, I would demand a front-page article tomorrow saying my opponents were scurrilous liars who are paid propagandists for causes contrary to my lofty goals.
It couldn't happen in America, you say?
Hogwash. It already has happened in many small ways, and there is a movement afoot to reduce the opposition media in the United States to an irrelevant asterisk.
The Van Jones quote with which this column begins is merely the road sign pointing to the ultimate goal of total control of the media that some members of the ruling elite seem to have in mind as part of the "transformation" of America they envision.
Like all roads to hell, this one comes with the standard "good intentions."
The Fairness Doctrine was enacted by the Federal Communications Commission in 1949, and it was the rule of the land until it was abandoned in the mid-1980s. Its purpose was to ensure that various viewpoints would have access to the airwaves, and that no one used government-issued broadcast licenses to brainwash the public with a monolithic source of information.
That probably made sense in the 1940s when broadcasting was relatively new and diversity was relatively limited. But it became apparent in the ensuing years that the "Fairness Doctrine" could also be used as a cudgel to intimidate broadcasters from airing unpopular viewpoints or even as a way to punish those of an opposite political persuasion.
Thus, shortly after the Reuther Memorandum was sent to Attorney General Robert Kennedy advising him to use the FCC to crack down on the ability of the "radical right" to spread its message of "fear," the FCC issued a public notice in 1963 that did just that. (See last week's column to read more about the Reuther Memorandum.)
The FCC's notice advised broadcasters that they had an "affirmative obligation" to "afford reasonable opportunity for the presentation of contrasting viewpoints." It singled out programs that were "presented under the label of 'Americanism,' 'anti-communism,' or 'state's rights'" and told broadcasters that whenever such a viewpoint was aired, whether in a paid announcement or an editorial or even an official speech, the station was "obligated to make a reasonable effort to present the other opposing viewpoint."
You can imagine that this could create quite a problem. First of all, if you broadcast a program that was pro-American, could you really be forced by our own government to broadcast a program that was anti-American?
And the particulars were even more disturbing. If a program involved a "personal attack upon an individual or organization, the licensee must transmit the text of the broadcast to the person or group attacked, wherever located, either prior to or at the time of the broadcast, with a specific offer of his station's facilities for an adequate response."
Could you imagine if such a policy had been in effect after the attacks of Sept. 11? Whenever Osama bin Laden was denounced as a brutal killer, al-Qaida would be scoring more air time for their message of anti-Americanism! Of course, it might have helped the United States to track down Osama since all the news organizations in the country would have been investigating his whereabouts so that they could deliver their offer of an "adequate response."
Unbelievable, but this is actually the policy that was in place in our country for more than 35 years, and which numerous politicians and theoreticians of the left want to see reinstated.
Mark Lloyd, the FCC diversity czar, is on record as saying that "the Fairness Doctrine is not enough. Put some hard structural rules in place that are going to result in fairness."
Presumably that is fairness in the "Animal Farm" sense. Your remember George Orwell's "Animal Farm," right? In that book, the animals take over the farm with the best of intentions, but things go hideously wrong. Ultimately the high-minded principles of egalitarianism and opportunity turn into this simple rule of power politics: "All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others."
It's the same thing with fairness. If you are protecting the right of your own viewpoint to be heard, you are all in favor of fairness, but when the opposition wants to speak out against you, suddenly there are good and valid reasons to shut them up.
Mr. Jones, the avowed communist, said it best with his immortal words, "You cannot have an opposition movement without opposition media."
Over the next few months and years, we may get a chance to see that theory tested. The Obama administration has already started a full-frontal assault on Fox News and various conservative commentators. If Fox and Glenn Beck should thus suddenly disappear from the cable lineup sometime in the next few months, you will at least know what's to blame - good old "Fairness."
n Frank Miele is managing editor of the Daily Inter Lake and writes a weekly column. E-mail responses may be sent to edit@dailyinterlake.com
naturalresources
You self engrandizing Libs appear a little jumpy lately. It's so easy to figure out what your next post will be like.
By the way, have you had a chance to indulge the fox interview with Hannity and Sarah?
She's lookng and sounding good enough for a possible rematch with the hate filled liberal press and all who support the limitation of free speech and other forms of Marxism/Socialism. Only this time she won't have the McCain baggage train wrapped around her ankles. Now jump on the train and let's go!
rtr
By the way "fun gal" I meant what I said earier, Leave me alone, I notice you are doing everything you can to get on Rob's good side but he is smart enough to leave you and your agenda alone.
Rob and Myself my disagree on most everything but when it comes to the basics we would both take heed at what the other one stated "Like it pointed out you lied about the cdapress" and I could write a story book about the reality of what you are truely like. "The playing dumb that you do here is only the begining of what you would really try to pull if you could get away with it.
Oh and by the way Woody, I am not wrong, It is you at the Beacon, Can't miss the same old insults that you throw out there that you do here as well. "You are a one of a kind everywhere"
rtr
Rob
1. I know you traveled a long ways from the Flathead inorder to make your fortune (Silver Valley is a good 3 hours! Wow!),
2. and then returned home to find things have changed. The shock ! "Barefoot, Pregnant, and in the Kitchen" just doesn't fit anymore.....
3. "Darn Liberals! Ruining the country."
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1. I never said I made my fortune in the Silver Valley "Not sure where you got that"
2. Nothing has changed, I never did believe in the barefoot and pregnat thing "when it comes to cry babies looking for handouts I don't care if it is a man or a woman it is pathetic" however i am the one that has been able to converse without the unsults when it comes to differering opinions " You might want to try it sometime..
3. Not to worry that will be short lived with only a 28 to 29 percent approval rating.
Woody
What a great idea. rtr has found a way to make his wife happy. He left her.
fun gal
He doesn't have a woman. She left him, uh, I mean, he left her.
fun gal
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Woody
rtr I have never written to anything called the Beacon. Believe it or not I am not the only Woody in the world, although I am sure it has been quite some time since you encountered one. Now go take your Viagry and give that woman some lovin.
Rob123
"The jealously of you liberals is amazing to me,..." Where did that come from? In many ways, my wife does run the show. I don't have a problem with that. Of course, she doesn't have a problem when I step up and run the show, either. It's called a relationship of equals. Of course, in your world, that probably constitutes "Socialism" or something equally mundane and stereotypical. I know you traveled a long ways from the Flathead inorder to make your fortune (Silver Valley is a good 3 hours! Wow!), and then returned home to find things have changed. The shock ! "Barefoot, Pregnant, and in the Kitchen" just doesn't fit anymore....."Darn Liberals! Ruining the country."
rtr
Rob
Why rtr, your such a noble chauvinist!
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I guess you and me both agree that woman should be treated with respect if they are just expressing their views.
Kind of like Ms_Evans and myself that have agreed to disagree.
What just came from Benznd and Woody is unexcusable and shows their true colors as to what losers they really are.
The jealously of you liberals is amazing to me, If only you could have been a CEO you too could have become as corrupt as Obama with your opinions of CEO's "Would that make you feel better" since we can tell your wife runs the show at your company which which would make her the CEO are you going to put her down too. "Speaking of warrents your wife might be setting you up"
Rob123
Why rtr, your such a noble chauvinist! If you read her posts, curious does quite well on her own. She doesn't need you to recruit her to your side of some imaginary line in the sand, where you are the chief b@tt kicker and defender of 'the faith', all dressed up to attack windmills. It's such a little world, she would probably get bored and wander away, anyway. Then you would feel remorse AND paronoia, instead of just the latter. Of course, when the auditors come to your house to see how a blue collar guy could retire so early with a cadillac health plan and money in the bank, they would notice all your drapes closed 24/7 and no sign of life except for an obnoxious clicking noise from behind the barred door, and go away. Like everyone else. Maybe send you a new keyboard, with stealthy noise deflectors. A good way to get you to open the front door so they can serve there warrent.
curious
rtr, sad but true. Have a good evening, going to go watch some Fox news for something enlightening and thought provoking.
rtr
Hey "curious" if you note these God hating liberals posting here that believe in evolution have not quite evolved yet and are still in their infancy of the human race "The proof is in their stone age insults to you".
rtr
Benznd
gGod works in mysterious ways. For some, he makes women who are automatically inferior yet are a necessity to reproduce, then hHe has them serve food and other mundane tasks.
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You mean like a low life beet picker "RIGHT"?
rtr
Woody
OOOOHHHHH I'm too old. I can't do it. I need all you other people to take care of me. Screw you get off your a$$ and defend your country or shut up and stop whining.
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You know Woody a lowly security guard in the USAF like you that was at the bottom of the food chain insulting other people is quite humorous.
I have to assume you are defending the fact that you should not have been kicked out of the military for violating the don't tell policy the way you are acting. “Poor little Cry baby”
No wonder Mooseberryinn kicked your b*tt at the Beacon and you ended up with nowhere to go but come back to the DIL.
.
curious
Benznd, I am so sure your mama is just beaming with pride to have a son like you? You are really special. Come to think of it Woody, your mama must be proud to.
benznd
Oh shoot, I forgot about heaven and he*ll. Wow, what was I thinken.................
Woody
OOOOHHHHH I'm too old. I can't do it. I need all you other people to take care of me. Screw you get off your a$$ and defend your country or shut up and stop whining.
benznd
woody, curious can't help anything that happens to her in life. Why? gGod works in mysterious ways. For some, he makes women who are automatically inferior yet are a necessity to reproduce, then hHe has them serve food and other mundane tasks. Others, he makes into men, they can run the church if hHe calls on them, or has them fight wars for him/her. Just doesn't make sense I say. There just has to be more to it than that.
fun gal
My clients use their money to make more money and more and more and more. I do very well for them. That's why they make a lot of money. If I were to "begrudge" anyone my boss would have my head on a platter, so to speak.
Have you ever heard or been involved in an instance like, say, helping your neighbor out and they offer you something in return? Maybe they would bring you a plate of cookies, you accepted and thanked them graciously. Or maybe they offered you a $500 dollar gift card and you told them, "oh, no thank you that's WAY too much". Or would you just take the gift card?
curious
If you were a CEO, would you turn down a salary of $5,000,000? It is a shame you weren't forced to take this option instead of the one you don't like now.
I am certainly glad with the opinion you have of your clients that you are not helping me with my investments. I would not want to be begrudged for growing my resources. The issue is not how much we have, but how we use it.
fun gal
There hope is that they get paid every month, and it is more than what they have to reimburse the doctors. They also have to make enough to pay for their employees, facilities, etc, etc."..........You forgot the CEO's salaries.
My occupation wasn't really my choice. If I could choose, I would like to be a waitress. I like talking to people, delivering good food and people really appreciate you when you fill their coffee cup, over and over and over. They really like it when you bring them something they need and they didn't even ask for it!! You see, about 20 yrs ago, when we realized SS might not be around and I wouldn't get any, I thought, "now I have to find a job that is going to get me all the way to retirement AND afford me a comfortable living minus SS." I don't LOVE my job. I do it. Would you like helping people with so much money that they don't know what to do with it other than to make MORE??
curious
Okay, 10 of us go in together on a car, it costs $1000. But we only get to use it 1/10th of the time. It did make it less expensive, but we get what we pay for. A doctor charges $30 to $100/hour, depending on their specialty and or location. This fee pays for insurance, facilities, other employees etc, etc. Insurance companies make money by reducing the care options and negoting rates that are more favorable.
There hope is that they get paid every month, and it is more than what they have to reimburse the doctors. They also have to make enough to pay for their employees, facilities, etc, etc. Then the government now gets involved, and they create a new layer of administration, and maybe even a couple of new czars's and regulators. As it stands now it is about 58% of the employment in the US is government related. (Our tax dollars at work) In return the doctors will have to see more patients and further reduce the available care to maintain level of income to cover these costs. Until the GNP increases, from production of exportable products, The cost of health care will be born by the the balance of the 40% of the workforce. It looks like the government workers are paying their fair share, but we pay taxes to the government , so they can pay it with the money they earn. We need smaller government and more jobs.
The reason your insurance is $68.00 per month, and the cobra is $512, is you are making $5328 more per year than you thought. The employer is paying the difference as part of your compensation. Just like the employer is paying for part of your Medicare and Social Security. People just don't understand these are part of their incomes. It costs most employers 30% more than the base wage to keep an employee. Employees are expensive. Nothing is free, someone pays.
fun gal
This just in:
Govt: Medicare paid $47 billion in suspect claims
WASHINGTON (AP) - The government paid more than $47 billion in questionable Medicare claims including medical treatment showing little relation to a patient's condition, wasting taxpayer dollars at a rate nearly three times the previous year. Excerpts of a new federal report, obtained by The Associated Press, show a dramatic increase in improper payments in the $440 billion Medicare program that has been cited by government auditors as a high risk for fraud and waste for 20 years.
So if Dr.'s are ripping off the govt, then maybe they're to blame???
fun gal
Good point, "competition". Hmmmmmmmmm seems like the insurance companies have NO competition. They're all in it together. Maybe, just maybe if there is a govt option, then and only then will the prices come down. You know like where I work since there are roughly 2 million "financial workers" in the US. When 2 million are paying into insurance, the price is low. I pay $68.00 per month for awsome insurance. A co worker was recently layed off and his Cobra statement said he can keep the same insurance for, wait for it,..............$512.00 per month!!!!!!!! Woah....... For those of you who say healthcare will be rationed, SURPRISE, it already is. No insurance, no treatment, unless of course you go to the emergency room where they CAN NOT turn you away, but instead wastes a lot of money.
I say if something cost's $1000.00 and 10 people are paying into it, then the cost is $100 per person. But, if 100 people are paying into it the cost is only $10 per person. If 1000 are paying into it then it's just $1 per person. Simple math. Sometimes the obvious is right under our nose.
curious
Woody, you served your way, I served mine. You are right they are different, besides, I am way to old for the service to take me in. Not defensive, I work for the community, you worked for the world. A noble undertaking. God made us different servants, as a man, you mighty hunter, as a woman me gather, and take care of the homefront. My father served 13 tours of duty, I like my mother understood that someone needed to take care of those at home.
curious
Fun gal, your occupation was your choice, if you don't have all you want, work harder. The government only allocates part of what you make. My point was that although health care would be nice, this is not economically the time, or the discretionary spending you currently enjoy would be gone to pay the health care of the persons who have less than you. Redistribution of wealth won't be just the Buffet's and Ichan's. I am not jealous of the CEO's that make millions, their employers must believe they bring more to the table. So why should they be penalized for what they can negotiate? As long as we have envy, we as a nation can be divided. I never said I was on the losing side, but it is appearant that you might be. Food fight!!!!!
rtr
There you go Rob, You don't even have to read it you can just sit back and listen to what a failed system the Europeans have and how they are looking at our health care for help in the FREE market. "compitition is what makes prices go down and not government handouts".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZum_o-GAEI
Rob123
fun gal....Your complicated, aren't you? (-:
fun gal
To curious. I earn my money. My clients are retired wealthy indifiduals/couples, so no one on welfare invests. I have handicapped clients, but they are rich why would I work for them for free. They're RICH. My employer pays me a base salary + commissions. The more I do for my client, the more I make. I do earn my money. The government DOES tell me how to spend my money. They take out SS, medicare, taxes. Then at the end of the year THEY tell me if I owe them more or not. THEY tell me. I would like to live in a very rich neighborhood, in a 2 million dollar house with housekeepers and a butler, but I can't afford it, so NO I don't get to choose where I live. I would like to eat expensive imported food, but the tariff's are to high so NO I don't get to eat what I want. My brother is a decorated, VN Vet. He's also a bleeding heart liberal democrat as was my father, who was a POW in WWII (last 6 month's in Germany) Like Warren Buffet said, "there is a class war raging in the US and the rich are winning." No one wants to be on the losing side. Do you??
Rob123
"As for Europes system it is failed and they are looking at are health care system to improve their own..." Ya know, that is about the 100th time you have said that. What Right Wing Blog for the Status Quo did you get that from? Why would they want to go from 10% of GNP with a Higher Average Life Span to 17+% of GNP with 26+% not covered? Of course there is disatisfaction with the Health Care System in Europe and Canada; they are Occidental Western Types with a penchant for tweaking things and changing things and getting everyone else to go along with it. Reality is a trip with discourse and learning. It's called Culture. Try some on for size.
Woody
Curious I love how defensive some people get when they get called out for doing NOTHING for their country. You poor thing you drove your car down to the community hall and doled out some soup. You sacrifice is underwhelming to say the least. If you want to do something for your fellow citizens take the place of one in Fallujah. As far as the rest goes, I think I just passed gas. How is that, coward. I just called you a Phart.
rtr
SorrySOB
Both Democrats and Republicans have recognized that the demand was outgrowing the supply, but they are protecting their behinds and waiting for the next person to deal with it.
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A couple notes here would be "The getting blasted" is because there are to mant lawyers in the whitehouse so they won't pass Tort reform. I is a governmental robbery issue all the way around.
Second is any and all socialized health care causes more supply than demand because people go to the doctor so often it becomes rationed and doctors can't afford to be doctors so there is a shortage of them "Canada is a prime example of that".
fun gal
Someone might want to reread their 972nd post.
curious
fungal, do you earn money? Or is your business probono to the welfare and handicapped? That was rhetorical. Did you negotiate your salary as a part of an agreement with your employer? Do you think you are entitled to the money you make? Do you think the government has a right to tell you how to spend the money you make? Do you get to choose where you live and what type of food you eat? First off thank our service people for keeping our Country free to do these things. And then maybe you should consider the fact that you may be a capitalist if you aren't ready to spend greater than 50% of what you make in taxes. Until the government get's the deficit under control, and people back at work, they won't have the funds available to pay for your right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." The argument for most is not really health care for everyone, It is how do we pay for it. People like you make me want to say the "F" word, and that word would not be fungal.
rtr
Constitution states that all Americans enjoy the right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, Which relates to work for what you want and keep what you make and NOT for government handouts of my tax dollars to people that don't or won't work and if anyone turns the constitution into a governemt "Entitlement" then I guess the word communist fits.
rtr
SorrySOB
Do we just let them die for lack of funds and insurance?
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The plain fact is that some people will always slip through the cracks and die some of which will be by their own doing no matter what you try to do for them.
I am not sure if you read what I posted about getting National insurance instead of state approved or not "you night want to check into that" also the government plan does nothing to lower the cost of health care but it does lower the quaility of it.
If the government wanted lower costs they would force the states to alow across state line sales of insurance and implement Tort reform but NONE of that was in any of their proposals.
As for Europes system it is failed and they are looking at are health care system to improve their own, It was in one of my earier posts with the European union address.
I am on your side with it would be nice if the government did something to help lower the cost but that is not and never will be what the governments intent is. "Unfortunate but true".
rtr
Rob
I have 25+ employees and deal with the public and big oil, for 30+ years, I qualify for OJT PhD.). Do you see the pattern? "Insanity.....Doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
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I guess I need and explaination to this?
With the way you post here so often during the week and during the day who is running your business by the way?
fun gal
To Rob123 re: 11:12 pm. ha ha ha ha My clients deal with the BEST accountants in the state, so I'm sure your idea will work.
I just love the way the conservatives throw around the "E" word (entitlement)
Why is a CEO "entitled" to make 16,000.000.00 a year??? How can he/she possibly spend all of that?? Oh, I know. His/her children are "entitled" to that money when he/she dies. Hmmmm the children probably didn't earn it, yet they are "entitled"?
Constitution states that all Americans enjoy the right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." life=proper health care liberty=access to health care
pursuit of happiness=allowed health care
Sometimes people make me want to say the "f" word
rtr
Rob, It is you that needs to get a grip.
I can't count the number of times Woody has used his military to insult people and put them down which goes to show several things "One" real men that server in the military don't go around bragging about it and I don't have room for the rest since you yourself know them.
As for the communism YOU are the one that said you lean towards Marxism "Is that like China is not a communist country" You are a Marxist but not a communist.
As for the other comment section it had become worn out before I started posting so that is CR*P and as for proof "That's in your opinion" and as for the number of comments to it you better count how many you and benznd had, Also do you remember what Pete pointed out that Benznd was insulting people there with a ton of stuff and then came back to this comment section like he was Mr. inocent.
Yep you need to get a grip alright.
SorrySOB
It is not so much that they were incapable of maintaining it but every administration that has tried to change it has been blasted for it. Both Democrats and Republicans have recognized that the demand was outgrowing the supply, but they are protecting their behinds and waiting for the next person to deal with it.
rtr
SorrySOB
hasn't it been predicted for decades now that Social Security and Medicare funding will both be gone before many of us get it?
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With this in mind you just proved the point that the government have no business in the health care industry since they can not maintain what they have now.
Rob123
rtr:First you insult a Veteran who expresses opinions with "Let see here a security guard in the USAF ranks right up there with Dingus Khan" then have the gall to say:
"The only thing I complain about is the free loaders wanting me to pay their way". Get a grip, ,,,,,you have self centered whining down to a neurotic form of self-masturbation. And if you throw away your big olde stereotypes, with me a Leftist-Socialist- gulliable-communist who happens to have a couple businesses on mainstreet usa with employees and trucks and logging equipment and restuarant but since my politics aren't your politics I am a big old Leftist Stereotype from 1950-80's Cold War America. And look back at all the comments on the Doctor's site right up until you, especially, and Pete also, jumped in after days of other people blogging and POOF, everyone stopped writing except me and benz,, 2 Professional Health Experts (I have 25+ employees and deal with the public and big oil, for 30+ years, I qualify for OJT PhD.). Do you see the pattern? "Insanity.....Doing the same thing over and over expecting different results".
benznd
It looks like the self righteous among us have a list of "thems." And all of you who believe "they" are out to get you, you may be right! Personally, I believe that just get a job is not going to cut it. If it weren't for those lazy bstrds our country would be great. It is just weren't for those liberals, our country would be great. If it weren't for those f*ing illegals, we would be a great country. If it weren't for those families who make ungodly decisions to terminate THEIR embryos, this country would be great. If your personal "If onlys" ceased to exist, where would YOU aim your venom. There is no need to identify the "if theners" who constantly search for a purpose for their personal animosity. The issues presented here are rhetorical, or simple targets. You look for others to reinforce your negative take of all those in the world who do not see things from our personal perspectives. However, what it boils down to is each person's developmental constitution, inclusive or exclusive. There are SO many components to life, it is virtually impossible to boil it down to lazy or liberal, etc. Way too complicated. 12% of this countries homeless are 18-23. Most are addicted and at this stage of life, victims. Victims of what? Each one has their stories to tell. Too easy to sit back and forget about them as they are the throw aways and losers. Each one has a story to tell, just as each of. Whether it is anger and resentment, altruism, drug addiction, psychosis, it does not matter as there is a story behind each mind set. We are, in general, brought into this world intact and ready to adapt to the demands of whatever environment exists.
SorrySOB
rtr, paying into Medicare for a lifetime? If you are around 37 years old, I would not say that is a "lifetime" quite yet. Anyway, hasn't it been predicted for decades now that Social Security and Medicare funding will both be gone before many of us get it? Then what? Those of us more fortunate that have saved all of our lives will probably be ok but what about the rest? I will agree on one point. I have seen lots of deadbeats on welfare that could be working. I have no sympathy for them at all. However, there are also lots of good people that have worked hard all of their lives to just make ends meet, or laid off, or become disabled, or whatever. Do we just let them die for lack of funds and insurance?
curious
Oh, and I forgot, God Bless the USA
rtr
Rob
I own my real estate, rtr......I do, however, have leases available, if your feeling guilty about retiring early and want to contribute, instead of complaining.
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The only thing I complain about is the free loaders wanting me to pay their way when they are capibable of working and paying their own way and or a government that goes back on its word and trys to take away "STEAL" from Medicare that we have all paid into for a life time.
curious
Woody, Woody, Woody, You know that is not the point. Service to this country is not limited to packing up your arms, and marching on your stomach in disease infested jungles. I have the upmost respect to those that have served to protect the sovereignty of regions in the world to protect their liberties. Accept for Pearl Harbor and 9-11, we have not been out there protecting our freedom, but that of the world.
Service to our country: let it be serve your fellow man. Have you put your time in helping in food service lines? I have. Have you helped provide food to families in down times? Don't get me wrong I feel the men and women in the armed services are serving to protect the rights of people in other nations, And have the upmost respect for what they do. But serving your Country also starts at home in your neighborhood and community as well. So before you take up arms (mouths) against your local paper patrons for not being in the military, Understand that there are otherways to give.
rtr
Don't Copy Europe's Mistakes: Less Government Is the Right Way to Fix Healthcare.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZum_o-GAEI
This is a must watch video if you are going to try and push or sell the garbage that socialized health care is better.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZum_o-GAEI
rtr
Let see here a security guard in the USAF ranks right up there with Dingus Khan and his great adventures. “Or not”
I think I would rather have “curious” watch my back any day of the week.
SorrySOB
Speaking of deja vu, doe anyone but me remember those guys on the street in the 1970's with the signs saying "the end is near"? Kind of looks like we fast forwarded to 2009. All this hand wringing, weeping, shotguns propped up behind the front door, and sky is falling talk really takes me back.
Woody
Curious If all the people that "would" actually "did" our military would be huge and no one would be going back to the front for the forth, fifth or sixth time. I got into a long conversation with a fellow worker about what I took away from my service. I explained to him that you have no idea how precious your freedoms are until you give them up in order to serve. While in uniform you have NO freedom of speech, No freedom of movement, you only have freedom of religion when it does not interfere with the mission. People in uniform give up these freedoms in order for you to be safe and have a means to complain about how inept the government is. Let me know when you have made a sacrifice for the good of other Americans.
Pete
Woody...I agree we have to do something, but something doesn't mean the wrong thing.
Pete
rtr....interesting...reading this is like deja vu all over again....This could have been written by any number of folks on here.
Program of the Communist Party USA
by 28th National Convention, 05/19/2006 04:45
The Road to Socialism USA: Unity for Peace, Democracy, Jobs and Equality is the Program of the Communist Party USA. Our program is our strategic guide to the current political moment and the tasks at hand. The program defines the main political tasks, the main forces for social change, and the main enemy of this particular epoch. Today, our main challenge is to defeat the Ultra Right and expand democracy on the road to an anti-monopoly coalition and socialism. Read our Program and join with us.
curious
Rob, it was the Moose watchman.
Woody, I absolutely do not believe we are entitled to anything except work. From that we should be entitled to keep the returns. Freedom is a result of sacrifice from alot of brave people that I am thankful for. Would I take up arms to defend this country? You betcha.
Woody
It is a myth that we have the best healthcare in the world. Here is a list of the top eight longest living people in the world. The US finally makes the list at 14th, right behind our neighbors to the north. And, everyone of the countries ahead of us has some form of national healthcare.
Andorra (in France): 83.51
Macau (near China): 82.19
San Marino (in Italy): 81.71
Singapore: 81.81
Hong Kong: 81.59
Japan: 81.25
Sweden: 80.51
Switzerland: 80.51
Woody
Curious did you go out and arrest anyone today? Bring down any ponzi schemes? Disarm any IED's? Go for a forced hike @14,000 feet in the Afghani mountains. Secretly spy on North Korea? Yet, I am sure you think you are ENTITLED to freedom
Rob123
So this is what we get for 5,000 dead soldiers, approx 1.25M dead Iraqies, and $1 Trillion + tax dollars: "IRAQ'S NEW TYRANNY--IS THIS WHAT WE FOUGHT FOR?
Chris Lloyd reports that an Iraqi court ruled that the UK Guardian defamed Nouri al-Maliki. "What exactly did the Guardian do to merit this judgment -- which, perhaps not incidentally, directs them to put more than $100,000 in Nouri al-Maliki's pocket? Something which, admittedly, is quite shocking in our day: The Guardian's Ghaith Abdul-Ahad, who has contributed a remarkable series of stories from the frontlines and backrooms of the Iraqi cauldron, interviewed three members of the Iraqi national intelligence service 'who claimed that the prime minister was beginning to run Iraqi affairs with an authoritarian hand.' And for this 'revelation' -- which is akin to claiming that the sun rises in the east, or that the Pope served with the Nazis -- the Guardian was hauled into an Iraqi court for defamation.
"After a number of expert witnesses demolished the case on legal grounds, a new five-member panel of government toadies weighed in to argue that 'Iraqi publishing law did not allow foreigners to publish articles critical of the prime minister or president, or to interfere in Iraqi internal affairs.' To which the Guardian laconically appended this little fact: 'The advice appeared to overlook the fact that Abdul-Ahad is an Iraqi citizen.' It surely comes as no surprise that the court rejected the expert testimony in favor of the toadies' playful sporting with the truth. But this is to be expected given the, well, authoritarian hand that the local satrap has been given by the occupying power.
"As the Guardian notes: 'Journalists covering routine violence in Iraq have reported being assaulted by security officials in recent weeks, in the wake of two huge bombings since early August...even the Economist -- the veritable Bible of the Anglo-American Establishment -- paints a grim portrait of the Iraqi regime installed at the point of American guns: a sinkhole of torture, execution, increasing repression and brazen power-grabs: The Shia-led government has overseen a ballooning of the country's security apparatus. Human-rights violations are becoming more common. In private many Iraqis, especially educated ones, are asking if their country may go back to being a police state. Old habits from Saddam Hussein's era are becoming familiar again. Torture is routine in government detention centers.'" And Americans are complicit by looking the other way. "
Rob123
I own my real estate, rtr......I do, however, have leases available, if your feeling guilty about retiring early and want to contribute, instead of complaining.
Rob123
And why would you say that?
curious
Rob, have you been drinking alot tonight?
Rob123
curious: "Woody, then I think you should move on to maybe China. They take care of their own." Actually, that is another stereotype that doesn't quite meet the old Reality Test. One of the reasons that the Savings Rate of individuals in China is so high, and their Consumer Spending is so Low, is that their Medical System is a Free for All, no rules to speak of, charge what ever the market will bear, whole plots of land changing hands after major surgery from a 'Doctor' who didn't go to college but learned 'on the Job'; They are rising fast, with 9% growth despite the world wide recession, but it's because they had so far to come. Excellent care in a few major cities/centers, but they don't have unions or OSHA or Consumer Protection, just one big IRS style thingy that only arrests guilty people.
curious
When the government starts setting limits on what the CEO should make, it is only a matter of time until the rate we are paid is also rated. Once we start to say that $500,000 is too high for a CEO, regardless of what he brings to the table, than what to say anything above minimum wage to to great. It is all about what we bring to the table. What value do we bring?
rtr
Hey Pete, Just a thought would you want a believer in wealth re-distribtion taking care of your retirement money????????
After you contemplate this could you please let me know what you think "http://www.cpusa.org/wa/".
It is getting late so I will see your respomse tomorrow.
rtr
Rob
Of course, rtr. I fit right into your stereotype, except for the part where my estate is too big to be covered by the exemption from the Death Tax.
===============
I am sure a couple of wore out old tanker trucks and a box of ding dongs from a leased gas station would be no problem to put in an ARK bound for China. "It would be like a home coming for you".
Rob123
Moose stomps everybody.....Would make a good watchman at a mining claim at the end of a road far far away. I still have a couple, but remote cameras are a lot safer, and don't take a bottle of whiskey to access.
rtr
curious
Woody, then I think you should move on to maybe China.
=======================
I think you should realize Rob informed us and it looks like he has talked Woody into believing that China is NOT a communist country any more and is a capitalist country just like the USA. "Maybe we can take up donations for them to move there", I hear they are speculating in oil and Rob has the tankers "Probably a nice fit".
Rob123
Of course, rtr. I fit right into your stereotype, except for the part where my estate is too big to be covered by the exemption from the Death Tax.
curious
Woody, then I think you should move on to maybe China. They take care of their own. All is equal. We have an incredible country. If you are willing to work, willing to buck up, we can make anything happen. It is those that believe that they are entitle that dont understand. We are entitled to nothing. But if you are willing to put your best foot forward, good things can happen. Did you step on your foot?
rtr
Rob, So does that mean you are a full fledged member of the "http://www.cpusa.org/wa/" too.?
Rob123
fun gal: Although my estate is not large enough to buy a Railroad (Dang it!), it is large enough that after the current exemption from estate taxes, there would be some left over that is taxable. If you were to manage such an estate, and were bonded and such, would I be allowed to have a 20 something masseuse/care giver trained in geisha and Western Existential Philosophy? Something that treats the Whole Person, and could be a write off on the bottom line? And a block on my computer so that Pete and rtr only become visible on days that I'm in the mood to be bummed out.
rtr
Rob
Woody....I agree with you. Doing nothing WILL BE a disaster.
================
He got so beat up at the Beacon he had to come back since he has no friends there. "if you don't think so by all means go check it out" "The Moose stomped him"...LOL
curious
Or we can divide and conquer. As long as everyone says not me, then we will be divided.
We are one America. As long as we can be broken down into little groups we can be broken.
rtr
European Liberals In Shock Over Obama's Failures
"It is no coincidence that Barack Obama held a key campaign rally last year in front of hundreds of thousands of adoring Germans, as though he were running for Mayor of Berlin. Obama remains in many ways a quintessentially European politician, a firm believer in big government, large-scale state intervention, social liberalism, supranational institutions, and the projection of soft power abroad. His political philosophy is frequently more attuned to Brussels or Strasbourg than it is to Washington. For a host of reasons however, President Obama is increasingly viewed by his natural allies in Europe- the left-wing intelligentsia in particular - as a mounting disappointment, whether it is dithering over attending the climate change summit in Copenhagen, supposedly ignoring the momentous changes within the European Union, making little progress with the Middle East peace process, adopting protectionist trade policies, a lack of commitment to human rights, including his ability to lie about the failed European Health Care system and the list goes on".
Rob123
rtr: Your little cut and paste "http://www.cpusa.org/wa/" is really scary! However, if you look into it far enough, they are actually really nice Trotskyite's and would be very concerned with your individual needs. Probably give your cadillac health plan a hair cut, but hey, it's better than an ice pick. P.S. Lets keep those stereotypes a rolling. What a hoot, bouncing from one knee slapper to the next. Reminds me of sitting in a bunker during Rocket Attacks while defending the U.S. from the communist domino pusher-overs. We used to slap our knees and laugh, between explosions. Kind of a nervous laugh, but still a laugh.
Woody....I agree with you. Doing nothing WILL BE a disaster.
rtr
Health Care in other countries is great is you don't mind dying before you can get to have a surgery and that is even if you are rationed for an appointment to the doctor to be diagnosed first.
By the way, Welcome back from the Beacon Woody, Are you here to stay or just trolling though?
Woody
Pete I think that the Health Insurance/ Health Care industry has brought the threat of regulation upon themselves. The insurance companies engage in predatory practices and too many health care providers collude with them. And, we, by refusing to reform make matters even worse by tell hospitals that hey must treat everyone who appears to be really sick regardless of their ability to pay. There is plenty of blame to go around, but doing nothing is just going to make matters worse. There is a reason no one else in the world has a system like ours.Our's sucks.
rtr
Hey Pete, Just a thought would you want a believer in wealth re-distribtion taking care of your retirement money????????
Here is another thought "http://www.cpusa.org/wa/" and even Rob knew better than to touch this one other than a joke and a slight jab at me earlier.
If you need more info please dig deeper than the surface with what is going on here..
SorrySOB
I know! Let's give the money to the rich and lower their taxes and wait for it to "trickle down." Oh, wait. We tried that too.
Pete
fungal
http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/miarticle.htm?id=3020
An article that explains who pays taxes...it even mentions Buffet.
So do you believe the government should set income limits for every industry and redistribute the rest? Or simply become the senior partner in every industry and then dictate income levels that way? Higher taxes on the "rich" to redistribute? Do you sense a trend here? Typical of liberal thought you are stuck with zero sum solutions because you think its a zero sum game. In a zero sum game it is all about fighting over the slices instead of growing the pie.
fun gal
I work in the financial services industry in the Spokane Valley. My clients are mainly older, retired WEALTHY individuals and couples. And extremely conservative.
Like Warren Buffet said, " there is a class war raging in the US and my class is winning."
Pete
Fun gal...what do you do for a living?
rtr
Rob
Could you get NEW coverage on Monday?
=============
Absolutely YES I could.
Even though the government won't do whats right to lower costs of Insurance by forcing the states to alow compitition you can get NATIONAL insurance coverage "Something for every one to check on" which is what I have.
If you think for one second they are going to tax my Cadilac plan you are NUTS, Obama would NEVER have his own plan or that of the thieves in the White house have their Insurance plans taxed "I'm very safe there" if nothing else they will leave a loop hole to get around it....Not to worry.
Rob123
Are you insurable, if you went down and tried to get a new policy, due to the State of Wash going broke? I assume that is where your policy is from, from past dispatches. It might be Idaho, but they aren't nearly as generous as those West Side Washtonians.
Outside of taxing Cadillac plans, which I am sure makes you angry but me happy, the actual question was not answered. Could you get NEW coverage on Monday?
rtr
Rob
Lets see, your 55 years old, classof 1973, and retired. On Monday, go down to a couple insurance offices and try to buy Health Insurance. Tell them you don't have any; and all your pre existing stuff (including lead from the Silver Valley) and see 1) could you get a 'good' policy 2) What would it cost you, as an individual buyer. Then come back with some rational insights.
=======================
First off I have one of those cadilac plans for the rest of my life but then I had the where with all to think about my retirement. "Can't feel sorry for those that don't".
Second is i have checked into that and for a low quaility of health care like Obama is offering it would cost any where from $4000 to $5000 a year as compared to Obama;s prejection of $3700 a year and we all know he lies through his teeth so either the coverage will be less or the cost will be more..
Rob123
Lets see, your 55 years old, classof 1973, and retired. On Monday, go down to a couple insurance offices and try to buy Health Insurance. Tell them you don't have any; and all your pre existing stuff (including lead from the Silver Valley) and see 1) could you get a 'good' policy 2) What would it cost you, as an individual buyer. Then come back with some rational insights.
rtr
Rob
So it looks like there is enough profit in Health Insurance to stop denying coverage? Of course, who is Big enough to Make them cover Even Sick People?
===================
That makes no sense what so ever seeing as how the Insurance companies are the ones paying the VAST majority of bills that people generate with doctors and hospitals. which adds to all the jobs that are created by the health care industry
It is the Obama plans that deny coverage as they see fit and by lowering the standards of Medicare coverage that use to be in place which they want to STEAL from that we have ALL paid into and alow career welfare cases to have it.
Rob123
So it looks like there is enough profit in Health Insurance to stop denying coverage? Of course, who is Big enough to Make them cover Even Sick People?
rtr
Let me get this right Pete, We have a Health Care industry that is creating jobs where the companies themselves are paying taxes, where the workers of those companies are paying taxes and supporting those that can't find a job or even look for one and now we have a president that wants to destroy the Health care industry. "If everything is failed and you can create panic then socialism is much easier to implement"
Example would be "The New deal, Nanny state, SS, Roosevelts dream come true". or "NOT" with only a 28% approval rating and falling it is sure to come unraveled soon which will be the good news".
fun gal
I guess after they pay their top executives, the profit margin is low. Sorry.
Cigna Corp H. Edward Hanaway 11,089,907.00
UnitedHealth Group Inc. Stephen J Hemsley 9,474,880.00
Aflac Daniel Amos 6,322,402.00
Pete
Wow...imagine....another leftist with an emotional argument backed by zero facts. The following article is from US News and World Report. I would venture to say that our very own fuel merchant, Rob collects a better margin than this out of his businesses.
Rick Newman
Why Health Insurers Make Lousy Villains
Posted: August 25, 2009
One of the fresh spectacles we're likely to enjoy this fall is moral outrage—real or feigned—over health insurance companies that may or may not be rapacious.
President Obama has already singled out insurers as the villains responsible for exorbitant healthcare costs that are bankrupting families and businesses and making care unattainable for millions. Rep. Henry Waxman, chair of the House Energy and Commerce Committee, has asked 52 insurance providers for detailed data on pay and perks for executives, junkets for employees, and other ways they spend the money that comes from premiums paid by policyholders.
[See the industries hurt most by soaring healthcare costs.]
It seems likely that such an ambitious fishing expedition will reel in a few morsels useful for tarring the whole industry. But on the whole, blaming insurance firms for runaway healthcare costs is a weak argument, because the insurance industry isn't all that profitable to start with.
Some critics would like to see a healthcare sector that's entirely nonprofit, but most Americans seem comfortable with the existing system of for-profit healthcare providers, at least at some levels. Otherwise, the majority of Americans wouldn't say they're satisfied with their existing coverage, and there wouldn't be so much discomfort over the idea of government-funded healthcare. So if you're comfortable with the profit motive, the next step is to determine a fair profit margin for companies in the healthcare industry. This is where there's bad news for Obama, Waxman, et al.
[See the trouble with healthcare reform, in numbers.]
Overall, the profit margin for health insurance companies was a modest 3.4 percent over the past year, according to data provided by Morningstar. That ranks 87th out of 215 industries and slightly above the median of 2.2 percent. By this measure, the most profitable industry over the past year has been beverages, with a 25.9 percent profit margin. Right behind that were healthcare real-estate trusts (firms that are basically the landlords for hospitals and healthcare facilities) and application-software (think Windows). The worst performer was copper, with a profit margin of minus 56.6 percent.
If you're wondering about Exxon, with its history of gargantuan profits, its profit margin was 9 percent over the past 12 months, according to the research firm Capital IQ. The average for the oil and gas industry overall was 10.2 percent, three times the margin in the health insurance industry. And that's nothing compared with high-fliers like Google—which had a 20.6 percent margin—and Microsoft, at 24.9 percent.
Profit margins basically reflect the percentage of revenue left over after paying salaries, expenses, taxes and lots of other things. So it's possible for firms to pay their executives a lot and still have a low profit margin. That's why Merrill Lynch, as an example, was able to pay huge bonuses to some employees while the company itself lost epic amounts of money.
[See 8 industries that will sit out a recovery.]
Government interrogators are unlikely to find abuses on that scale among health insurers. While the rest of the economy has collapsed, most parts of the healthcare sector have remained reasonably stable. So odds are that any bonuses paid at least went out of profitable firms. With profits in many other industries depressed, health insurance profit margins probably rank higher than they normally would, compared with other industries. And a number of health insurance organizations, such as Kaiser and the Blue Cross plans, are nonprofits. They can still pay high salaries, but since there's no stock or stock options, there are fewer ways for big shots to earn lavish bonuses.
Among the large, for-profit health insurers, profit margins line up with the industry as a whole. UnitedHealthGroup, the biggest health insurer, had a 4.1 percent profit margin over the past 12 months. WellPoint, the next biggest, had a 4 percent profit margin. Aetna, Cigna, and Humana came in below that.
Health insurers turn out to be underperformers compared with the other parts of the healthcare sector. Pharmaceutical companies have a profit margin of 16.4 percent—seventh highest of the 215 industries that Morningstar tracks. Others segments of healthcare with margins well above the median include healthcare information (9.4 percent), home healthcare firms (8.5 percent), medical labs (8.2 percent), and generic drugmakers (6.5 percent).
The big money, in other words, isn't in the insurance industry. If it's anywhere, it's in the pharmaceutical industry. But the Obamanauts appear to have reached a kind of détente with Big Pharma in exchange for that industry's tepid support for some kind of reform. So Obama and his foot soldiers need to look elsewhere for black hats.
[See why your health insurer might have had trouble running "Cash for Clunkers."]
To give a clearer picture of which healthcare firms are earning the most, I've compiled some data from Capital IQ showing net profit margins over the past 12 months for a number of well-known companies. The following list includes the three largest firms in each of five different sectors: biotechnology, drug manufacturers, healthcare plans, healthcare services, and medical equipment. Some of these numbers are sure to be off-putting to Americans who are making sacrifices to pay for healthcare or can't afford it at all. Yet industries like pharma and biotech remain strong job creators that have held up well during the recession, and they represent parts of the global economy where America still enjoys a leading position. If you were Obama, desperate to find a few bright spots in a troubled economy, you might be reluctant to pick on them.
Amgen (biotechnology): Profit margin, 30.6 percent
Gilead Sciences (biotechnology): 37.6 percent
Celgene Corp. (biotechnology): 11.9 percent
Johnson & Johnson (drug manufacturer): 20.8 percent
Pfizer (drug manufacturer): 16.3 percent
GlaxoSmithKline (drug manufacturer): 17.4 percent
Unitedhealth Group (healthcare plans): 4.1 percent
WellPoint (healthcare plans): 4 percent
Aetna (healthcare plans): 3.9 percent
MedcoHealth Solutions (healthcare services): 2.1 percent
Express Scripts (healthcare services): 3.7 percent
Quest Diagnostics (healthcare services): 8.7 percent
Medtronic (medical equipment): 14.9 percent
Baxter International (medical equipment): 17.5 percent
Covidien (medical equipment): 12.3 percent
fun gal
I like this song:
Battle Hymn of the Insurance Companies
Rejoice and let us glory in the profits we attain
By rationing the remedies for suffering and pain.
And no one's gonna mess with all our monetary gain.
Let's save the status quo!
Chorus:
If our healthcare corporation
Never faces regulation,
We'll be brimming with elation!
Let's save the status quo!
We bought a bunch of senators and congresspeople too.
They serve our corporate interests and we tell them what to do.
This gravy train will stop the day a healthcare bill gets through.
Let's save the status quo!
By: Billionaires for Wealthcare.
rtr
Pete, Those are great songs, I especially liked Al Gore and them poor old Polar Bears.
Pete
rtr...have you heard Paul Shanklins parody songs? Funny stuff. Elvis' "In A Yugo"....Obama's "Every Cent You Make- I'll be taxing you"....and Al Gore performing "Ball of Fire".......hilarious.
rtr
Your daily Carrot and Beet tracking poll.
29% yesterday and the loss of another point today, At this rate the only ones that would be voting for him or sticking up for him will be Rob and Benznd by the end of the month. .
Daily Presidential Tracking Poll
Friday, November 13, 2009
The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Friday shows that 28% of the nation's voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as President. Thirty-eight percent (38%) Strongly Disapprove giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -10
rtr
Rob
Book of Sarah and sang her song, using of course the modern version ("I can see Russia!" what a hoot).
===========================
As comapared to Obama's book, "I can take your money and there is nothing you can do about it".
Or the new one Obama is coming out with, "I have enslaved the working class" "Freed the rich" and "How to join the flock".
Pete
"GOP Chairman Michael Steele learned of the policy's abortion coverage Thursday through a news report and immediately said that the RNC wanted to opt out of elective abortion coverage."
The Republican establishment at it again...caught being a bunch of hypocrites. The American people deserve better than a choice between the lesser of two evils. Everyone....from socialists to libertarians and everything in between should vote anything but Democrat or Republican this next year and send these to political bureaucracies to the dust bin. Talk about monopolies.
Bronco
Speak of the devil...Good morning from the Heartland, where the women are big and the deer are plentiful. Stopped at Mom's to shower and get a look at the world.
First off, who kidnapped rtr and replaced him with this mellow fellow posting under his name? Holy Willikers. Gone for a few and the whole tribe here is transformed.
Pete's a democrat, Woody is happy, Benznd cracking me up with his "twang."
New people: fun gal, Wilson ('nother Republican but welcome aboard anyway), SorrySOB recognizing the circus has come to town and he's part of it. And Old Blue? Did rtr give the 'old goat' a heart attack? All respects due, he had some colorful but arcane references. Tox a no-show. Hi, curious! You're still here? Hmmm, a welcome lack of good sense on your part.
And Rob...speaking of arcane references. Good to see ya here still yet. You the one that took rtr to charm school? By the way, deer in Hawaii? Yes, but only knee high and all in Molokai with the lepers. Got in on the end of archery season with a big doe (Thank gGod for Scent-Lokt) and now heading back out armed with the .06 for some antlers.
You guys and gals keep well. See you all maybe next column mid week. We should be ready for another shower and more whiskey by then.
Best, Bronco
Rob123
rtr/fun gal: Hope you two can reconcile and get back in the saddle together again. I've been wondering about the cause of rtr (rls) mood swings, but this shines a whole new light on it. When Knowledge becomes the biblical prepositional phrase 'to know', my old buddy Bronco and I have from time to time delved into the Book of Sarah and sang her song, using of course the modern version ("I can see Russia!" what a hoot). I hope you two can learn to sing together again soon? p.s. Bronco, who lives in Hawaii, is off to Hunting Camp for 10 days looking for Deer. I didn't even know Hawaii had deer? But hey, if the story works, go for it?
Rob123
wilson: "Rob, thanks for the tip. I found a pair of those Best Boots in Canada." I bet you did! (-:
fun gal
Oh, benznd, ha ha ha ha
benznd
Yall came back, yahear? got Auntie Mossebreathe, cousin SOB and roudyhide and some frequentflyer folk. All good hard worken. Auntie Kimprincs and tillee talks like theys ridd hard and put wet away. Smart ladies they is. They only visits once in a awhile. Too bad too, they got good thins ta say. BYE gin
benznd
This here blog, well it is juss one big ole happy family. We got uncle r. He lives in a nice place. Worked hard around rocks and stuff his hole life. Kind of cranky and sometimes hard to be round, but he OK once ya get to no him. Peteee, well he most keeps to hisself. Somtimes, he is happy and sometimes he aint. Think he gots some kinda mood swing thingee goen on. Happy and all one minet, and kinda feistee the next. The rest of the fams pretty cool. Aunt Roberta, well she's just a kick ya no. Always quik to say somepin silly. But her sometimes has a little cut to er. I thinks she needs more sleep time. She is up way early and on her puuter talken to folks in Asia and things. Makes some kinda bets with em and makes mony too boot.
Benznd is a real good cousin. He is a professnal ya no. Herd some one call him a shrink once. He sure aint act like one. He sometimes gets all flustered and says goofy thins. Dont thin he likes too many people. Says thins about the cub scouts and how theys communists or somebodys over there. Shouont say those things about othes, but he does. I hope to talk about Cousijn Woody and BRonco soon. They all live fur away and wishn theyd cojme see us soon. Bye.
fun gal
WOW!
rtr
Wilson
rtr, that intimidation and insulting you mentioned when I first joined the group? It's festering again.
===========================
Laughing,,, A few jabs here and there are nothing, We have all cleaned up are act for the most part.
Enjoy your trip out of town.
Wilson
So we are down to quoting polls to prop up our opinions? "I'm right and 61% of polled people agree, nanny, nanny, boo boo?" "Oh, look at me! Most people agree with me!" "Look everybody, my poll is better than your poll." "Liar, liar, pants on fire." So what? School yard bravado.
Who here checks the polls BEFORE they venture an opinion? What kind of person would even care what MOST people think ...except sheep?
Most people are idiots when it comes to politics anyway. Who here, or even those asked in the polls , knows what really must be done?...or how to bring it about?...or what would happen if we do it the right way?
Sorry if I seem moody and mean. Long day in the trenches. But you folks seem more giddy than thoughtful tonight. Maybe it's just me.
rtr, that intimidation and insulting you mentioned when I first joined the group? It's festering again.
I have to leave town for awhile on business. Hope to check in next column. Best to all of you though. You all sound like very good people.
Rob, thanks for the tip. I found a pair of those Best Boots in Canada.
rtr
Fun gal
1. Are you sure your not reading the Post Falls Press?
2. Us Lib's are outnumbered, but we do stick together.
====================
1. No it is the cdapress, nice try at lying however "Your nick there now is fun gal1 now" and I have noticed you have tamed down your intimidation but still use the same old gang for the same old games..
2. You got that right however because you and your ilk are being ignored with your intimidation on the street and or in the comment sections and town hall meetings have taken over and put you in YOUR PLACE with a conservative movement..
I would like to ask you FRANK, Editor to have it NOTED that I have requested that "fun gal" does NOT communicate with me in any way shape or form and NOTE I have never ask for any thing or complained to the DIL before.
I notice if you click on "fun gal's" addy it does not show up so even if she is involved with Hagadone I could careless since I have ask CIVILY to have her leave me alone. "This makes the second time"
It would be inaproperate to go into all the details of the above here in an open forum but if you want the deatils Frank in a private email I will be happy to communicate with you other wise the above is all I am requesting.
Thank You
rtr
P.S. This has NOTHING to do with anyone else that has been posting here, If you noticed I even left the door open for Rob to give me a jab and everyone else has been very civil and I have noticed even Rebel and SorrySob have stated they are enjoying it so this is a seperate issue and I just want "fun gal" to leave me completely alone. "Past history" "Nothing less and Nothing more".
fun gal
That's odd. Are you sure your not reading the Post Falls Press? The conservative movement in CDA has most certainly NOT backed off. They are "strong and kickin'" over there. Us Lib's are outnumbered, but we do stick together.
rtr
eun gal
I'm here visiting my cousin in Bigfork. Trying to talk her into coming to CDA for the holidays.
=====================
Let see here, Was it the intimidation, ganging up on, coercing or setting traps to try and get any conservative kicked off the comment sections over there that I remember you the most for.?
Just to let you know I live here now and I still remember how you use to say how you never fit in over here which will become quite obvious if you post here for any length of time...
I still read the cdapress comments "Haven't posted there for over a year" and have noticed how you and your little "Gang" have ran off most conservatives in order to create your own little liberal political platform "Does that sound familiar as to what was going in here up until a short time ago".
If you NOTE this comment section is CIVIL "Unlike the atmosphere you like to create" and I believe it would be best if you and me do not communicate here in any fashion "Even round about" since I know exactly what you are like.
Glad to here you are going back.....!!!!!!
fun gal
Sounds like Rob123 has "experienced" you. ha ha ha ha
Have no "high heeled buddies". Where did that come from?
I'm here visiting my cousin in Bigfork. Trying to talk her into coming to CDA for the holidays.
rtr
run gal
rls...uh I mean rtr says his approval rating is 99% here?!? ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
They just don't know you that well yet. Give it time....give it time.
=========================
Let's just hope you left your little high heeled buddy at the CDAPRESS, It's bad enough putting up with the likes of you here.
Did they let you out of the special education center so you could come play with us today?
rtr
Rob
Your 99% is wonderful, too, in it's own sad, lonely way. We stand back in shock and awe, watching you converse with...?....
==================
Much better, Next time could you please combine the two so it doesn't take up so much room in the blog...
fun gal
rls...uh I mean rtr says his approval rating is 99% here?!? ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
They just don't know you that well yet. Give it time....give it time.
Rob123
Well, the 82% for Pres Bush 6 weeks after 9/11 is certainly understandable. What an ugly, sad/angry time. Your 99% is wonderful, too, in it's own sad, lonely way. We stand back in shock and awe, watching you converse with...?....but no one wants to say anything to upset you. That cut and paste thing is ..........so anyway, say hi to all your friends. Can one hug images inside ones head? I'm sure benznd will get that explained, shortly. I just don't know what to do, with you.
rtr
Hey Rob, You did disappoint me a bit however I would have thought you would have taken a stab at my popularity poll too....LOL
Let see here I am loved by one and all so my approval rating would be about 99% but if there were to be a poll as to my ability to fly a rocket my poll numbers might fall a tad, maybe even as low as Obama's at 29% which they are today.....
rtr
Rob
rtr: "if the rocket poll specifics were used they may not want to fly to the moon with me." Sadly, we wouldn't be able to fit your outhouse in, so I'm sure you wouldn't want to go anway. Seriously, the Culture Shock would devastate you. Especially when you stepped outside for a smoke.
==============================
I left the door wide open for you on that one, I knew you would have a good come back...LOL
Rob123
rtr: "if the rocket poll specifics were used they may not want to fly to the moon with me." Sadly, we wouldn't be able to fit your outhouse in, so I'm sure you wouldn't want to go anway. Seriously, the Culture Shock would devastate you. Especially when you stepped outside for a smoke.
Pete: "or whatever other label employed by race baiters and others to intimidate opposition viewpoints. " Yeah, my opposition to invading Iraq before and after the fact, using geopolitics and Sociology of the region, was met with such fine, upstanding, noble ideas. You humble me Pete. Thanks for letting me clean your boots.
rtr
Hey SorrySOB, There were no references to you at all."Not to worry".
You might want to read the morning posts and follow them and you will see where my comment came from.
SorrySOB
From rtr. "Hey Pete, Just to let you know I do appreciate you pointing out that some people here are just going to other pages "Comment sections" in the DIL to spread the liberal hate since the paper includes all the pages and not just Frank's columns."
--
Not sure who you are referring to but its not me. If I feel the need to "spread liberal hate' I'll do it here. I have lots of other things to do than spend all day on a newspaper web site (work and family in particular). This forum is crazy enough that I don't have to be jumping around to others.
Pete
Rob...you are right...I think people like Obama personally. He has a compelling story, he's an historical figure etc. However, all of that does not translate into an acceptance of his policies...they all poll much lower than his personal numbers. Maybe the country is wise enough to differentiate between policy and personality? Which probably drives the PC crowd nuts because it belies the notion that opposition to Obama's policies is somehow "racist", "redneck", "hater", or whatever other label employed by race baiters and others to intimidate opposition viewpoints.
rtr
fun gal
Age Groups Differ on Greatest U.S. President
Americans aged 18 to 34 are most likely to say Abraham Lincoln is the greatest president,
those aged 35 to 54 say it is Ronald Reagan,
and people ages 55 and older are most likely to choose John F. Kennedy.
==============================
I guess that would make me an independant then, You just named off three of the worst presidents in history other than Obama in my book.
rtr
fun gal
You must have looked as his ONLY high approval rating which took place in September 2001. After 9-11 when he decided to invade Afghanistan. Only lasted a month. ha ha ha ha ha
==============================
Are you Ok, Did you notice the poll was for the first year in office, are you loosing it, stay with us here now, hang on the ride gets a bit hard to follow but we have faith in you.
Please read the first line below
Elected Presidents in First November of First Term:
Barack Obama's Most Recent Weekly Approval Rating Average
52%
(Nov 2-8, 2009)
Barack Obama's Term Average:
59%
Barack Obama's Low Point:
50% (several times; most recent:
Nov 1-3, 2009)
George W. Bush
87%
(November 2001)
rtr
fun gal
Who likes ANYBODY's politics anymore?? They are ALL currupt. BOTH repub's and Dem's.
=================================
There you go, "Right ON" I think WE the majority in the USA are in agreement there and those that can't see reality should seriously think about taking a mental evaluation test.
rtr
Hey Pete, Just to let you know I do appreciate you pointing out that some people here are just going to other pages "Comment sections" in the DIL to spread the liberal hate since the paper includes all the pages and not just Frank's columns.
fun gal
Age Groups Differ on Greatest U.S. President
Americans aged 18 to 34 are most likely to say Abraham Lincoln is the greatest president,
those aged 35 to 54 say it is Ronald Reagan,
and people ages 55 and older are most likely to choose John F. Kennedy.
curious
Yep according to the Gallop pole, after one year in service Obama is at 53%, tied with Reagan and slightly ahead of Clinton. He is even behind Carter. Obama is next to last of all presidents. So 53% is not something to be woo hooing about. I think that 53% is probably overstated as well. They are probably only surveying people that are home during the day.
fun gal
Actually GW's AVERAGE for both terms was only 49.4%
George W. Bush January 2001-January 2009 49.4
You must have looked as his ONLY high approval rating which took place in September 2001. After 9-11 when he decided to invade Afghanistan. Only lasted a month. ha ha ha ha ha
rtr
Let see here I am loved by one and all so my approval rating would be about 99% but if there were to be a poll as to my ability to fly a rocket my poll numbers might fall a tad, maybe even as low as Obama's at 29% which they are today.....
Now if I used the first numbers like Gallup does Rob, Benznd, SorrySOB and fun gal might want to have a drink with me but if the rocket poll specifics were used they may not want to fly to the moon with me.
SorrySOB
"SorrySOB...wow...disagreement with Obama's policies means disloyalty to the country?"
Of course not, no more so than my disagreement with the Patriot Act didnt' make me a traitor. However, it appears you get bored and think that you have to come in and poke people in an attempt to undo any civility that has transpired in the last couple of days. It seems that even rtr has been a bigger man recently and maybe that is what bothers you? Not enough hating and chaos maybe?
rtr
Rob
However, it is an approval rating of Obama as a person.
========================
You are correct Rob when it comes to him as a person BUT not of his approval of his ratings when it comes to his abilities as a president. "Even without Congress"
fun gal
Who likes ANYBODY's politics anymore?? They are ALL currupt. BOTH repub's and Dem's.
rtr
fun gal
Seems a bit shady to me.
===================
You know I agree with you that a poll that can't give specifics as to what the poll was even about is shady and that would be your "Gallup Poll", Kind of like eating Carrorts or Beets and it and then saying they are bad because everyone dies after eating them.
By the way I did have to laugh when your Gallup poll showed Bush as the best president. You must have loved him too with numbers like that.....LOL
Rob123
curious......BUT, carrot eaters see it coming! Therefore.........
fun gal.....Your number (53%) is correct. However, it is an approval rating of Obama as a person with congress and such pulled back. Most people still think he is HONESTLY trying despite being in Washington surrounded by clowns and lobbyists. Even Pete likes the guy! Just can't stand his politics. Of course, that is an almost Universal dictum for Pete.
curious
Come to think about it I think everyone that eats beets dies too.
fun gal
One of Gallup's rules is to never accept any money from any political party ever. It has upheld this rule since 1935. However, Scott Rasmussen founder of Rasmussen inc (polls) accepted $95,500.00 in "consultation fees" from the RNC back in 2003-2004.
He also accepted $45,500.00 from the campaign of GWB.
Seems a bit shady to me.
rtr
Hey "fun gal" looks like you better Google Rasmussen next time if you want specifics as to what the polls are about and not a generalization of CARROTS that you are getting from the Gallop poll.
That was good "curious"....I laughed
fun gal
I Googled.."gallup.com...
rtr
Hey "fun gal" even using your polls which comes from a liberal tainted side Obama is still the worst president other than Clinton even prior to Roosevelt so you have no point.
Barack Obama's Most Recent Weekly Approval Rating Average
52%
(Nov 2-8, 2009)
Barack Obama's Term Average:
59%
Barack Obama's Low Point:
50% (several times; most recent:
Nov 1-3, 2009)
Average for U.S. Presidents Since Franklin D. Roosevelt:
55%
Average for Elected Presidents' Fourth Quarter:
62%
Other Elected Presidents in First November of First Term:
George W. Bush
87%
(November 2001)
Bill Clinton
49%
(November 1993)
George H.W. Bush
70%
(November 1989)
Ronald Reagan
52%
(November 1981)
Jimmy Carter
56%
(November 1977)
Richard Nixon
67%
(November 1969)
John Kennedy
79%
(November 1961)
Dwight Eisenhower
60%
(November 1953)
curious
Even Lou Dobbs of CNN won't put up with the Liberal partisan politics . "In his resignation statement, Dobbs listed what he considers “the major issues of our time”: “the growth of our middle class, the creation of more jobs, healthcare, immigration policy, the environment, climate change, and our military involvement, of course, in Afghanistan and Iraq.”"
One more spokesman for America.
Rassmussen Reports "Thirty-nine percent (39%) say the President is doing a good or excellent job handling the economy while 45% give him poor marks. On national security issues, the numbers are 42% good or excellent and 39% poor. "
I guess it depends on what is is you expect your president to do. 53% approve of what specifically. -2 in Economic confidence at the Gallop pole.
Did you know that 100% of people that eat carrots die? Therefore carrots are bad. Amazing what you can do with numbers.
rtr
Actually “fun gal” you are only making up stuff and if I am wrong give me your sourses.
The fact is my source is from Rasmussen which you already knew and not Fox.
Just an FYI "fun gal", Part of CIVILITY is to tell the truth and not tell your lies here. “Just a thought”
Daily Presidential Tracking Poll
Thursday, November 12, 2009
The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Thursday shows that 29% of the nation's voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as President. Thirty-eight percent (38%) Strongly Disapprove giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -9 (see trends).
rtr
Rebel, Did you read curious's post yesterday where her sister was trying to figure out a way to get disability to advance her career in the welfare field....
H*LL it's more than a subsistence now days it has actually turned into a career opportunity.
You are correct that all the buracrats have their hand in it now days..
fun gal
I guess it depends on which poll you look at. Today's Gallop poll list's
Obama's job performance at...53% approve, 41% disapprove.
Maybe Faux news polls are different.
Pete
Rob....or dissect the word "is"?
Pete
SorrySOB...wow...disagreement with Obama's policies means disloyalty to the country?
Rebel Rouser
I think we might have a difficult time getting past the welfare bureaucracy lobby with all that cash being waved around. It is a HUGE government rip off that supports thousands of bureaucrats not just lazy recipients, no stopping that train unless you can wreck it. Petee will have to go through Pelosi though because they are such good friends. BTW, I think members of ACORN were (in fact) former welfare recipients trying to get a better gig.
rtr
SorrySOB
He would rather see the entire country go down than see the Democrats or Obama have any success,
===================
From what I am seeing, reading and watching it doesn't take any help from Pete to realize it is Obama himself and the entire Democratic party that are tareing themselves apart and the country along with it.
I can remember war protests that were huge but NEVER like it is now with BOTH liberals and conservatives and all races protesting against the government itself. "There is a clue in that you know what I mean"
Note the poll ratings for Obama is the worst of any president that has been in office with only having been there one year and the polls also show the democratic congress and senators are on their way out too.
rtr
Hey Rebel, I did enjoy are talk yesterday and think we almost got a solution to this welfare problem.
We could write up the Congressional BILL, then curious and Pete could take it to the president for us since they seem to be a better speakers than we are so Obama could take it and have it signed and approved by ACORN.
What do you think?
Rob123
Pete: "Disgraced former New York Gov. Eliot Spitzer to give lecture at Harvard Ethics Center"....I hope he doesn't go off the deep end and start reading from Pres. Nixon's Memoirs? I don't think I could keep my lunch down. Hopefully, he just becomes a slightly less arrogant j*rk, and maybe point out that he was onto AIG 2 years before it collapsed.
SorrySOB
I too have been checking in and feeling pretty good about the civility being shown here. That is until Pete shows up. Pete has one purpose and nothing else substantial to offer. To further divide people and thus divide the country. He would rather see the entire country go down than see the Democrats or Obama have any success, and then continue to blame it on the Democrats and Obama. Oh, I almost forget, he does one thing well. He is good at quoting Saturday morning cartoons. My bad.
Pete
Rebel...come now...you dirtied up the parlor long before I showed up....I would happy to point out your footprints if you wish? The only thing I did was to encourage people look into your former posts before arguing religion with you. I have found you quite reasonable on other issues...but religion seems to set you off like a bottle rocket. ;-)
Rebel Rouser
Everything seemed to be going good until little Petee comes in tracking dirt. If you (loving christian that you are) hate Democrats so much, why don't you go stand outside of Norm's News with a sign that says so? Or better yet why don't you try and take a hint from rtr about civility?
rtr
Pete
This President is starting to make Carter look decisive.
=======================
Well now we know what is takes to win the Nobel Peace Prize.
Just be out-standing-in the field looking dumb.
rtr
Pete
rtr....good day.
==================
Back at you, Good day, Funny how you pointed out that Benznd hasn't changed, I have been watching "Not posting" at the Beacon and I see are very own Woody is over there causing trouble and insulting everyone too.
Funny part of that is he looks pretty beat up after they got done with him over there.
Pete
"Back to the Drawing Board After months of deliberating over Afghan war strategy — Obama rejects options, tells security team to try again"
couple this with.....
"Obama Jobs Fix: Summit As another half-million Americans file new unemployment insurance claims, companies announce more layoffs and the jobless rate tops 10 percent — President Obama responds by calling a December summit"
This President is starting to make Carter look decisive.
Pete
"Disgraced former New York Gov. Eliot Spitzer to give lecture at Harvard Ethics Center"
Followed by...Mike Tyson on "Anger Management"...Paris Hilton on "Etiquette"...and Benznd on "Peace".
Pete
rtr....good day...."Evidently the Mayan's were Democrats." That would explain why they couldn't figure out the wheel....they were beholden to the Mayan Serpa Union.
Rob123
Your in charge, rtr.....................unless this is how you like it? Very quiet and non-controversial....................ye olde Silent Majority?
rtr
Daily Presidential Tracking Poll
Thursday, November 12, 2009
"The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Thursday shows that 29% of the nation's voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as President. Thirty-eight percent (38%) Strongly Disapprove giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -9 (see trends). Thirty-three percent (33%) now say the U.S. is generally heading in the right direction".
The Mayan Calendar ends 2012, Evidently the Mayan's were Demorctats.
Pete
Benznd..." and will be even stronger if we can learn to live together and agree to disagree without name calling. I know I have been guilty but have tried to put a lid on it lately. Peace"
BS...you just went to another page to get your jollies.
"Now, after years of working with the poor and disadvantaged, I am faced with an increasing cry of "foul" form the right wingers, teabaggers, Obama haters, racists, you name it. And they all sound like you. Warped and willing to take away others rights."
Maybe last night doesn't qualify as lately....? Or maybe you knew that your ND angst just had to be released or there was going to be a 911 call so you were "kind" enough to take it to the next room so we wouldn't have to fumigate this one?
Rob123
Woody: "Could it be that the wheel is only obvious, if you need one?" (-: Ding! Then a little light came on! Your right......
benznd: "It really did bring tears to my eyes." Ya know, 30+ years after leaving Vietnam, the same thing happened to me when a future in law from Chicago, and a detective, said that to me. He too had been in Vietnam. Just put a big old lump in the throat. We had very different takes on Vietnam, but shared many experiences.
benznd
I like this unity. And Rob, thanks for the "welcome home." It really did bring tears to my eyes. I say to you and Woody and Natres: welcome home as well. Hope I did not miss anyone. If I did, welcome home to you also. I has been a long time since then. Lots of life has gone under the bridge. But, we're still standing and will be even stronger if we can learn to live together and agree to disagree without name calling. I know I have been guilty but have tried to put a lid on it lately. Peace
rtr
Correction
Rob
But still, no Wheel. I'm really stuck on that! Why? It seems so obvious.
==========================
It is because they did not see the Rolling Stones.
Woody
Rob Could it be that the wheel is only obvious, if you need one?
rtr
Rob
But still, no Wheel. I'm really stuck on that! Why? It seems so obvious.
==========================
It is because they did see the Rolling Stones.
rtr
Rob
I bet you if you weren't afraid to try new things.
==============
What new things are you talking about?
Rob123
rtr: ".....they found the truth and the light...." It's not a real christian thing that was found, but it was a few thousand years (depending on which group/tribe you speak of.......the Bible's Burning Bush that is not Consumed.....Just about everything in India......etc.)before Timothy dropped out of Harvard with his Phd and started looking elsewhere. There's a whole world waiting for you out there rtr! I bet you if you weren't afraid to try new things, after 6 months you'd be giving away all your stuff and become a Rolling Stone. Although I would advise you to sign everything you own over to me, and I will put it an Al Gore style 'Lock Box' 'Blind Trust' for safe keeping, in case you come down.
Rob123
Woody....Trial and Error, probably. Some approached Infinity with Awe and Joy, while others with Vomit and diaherra and all the symptoms of Swine Flu. Soon, everyone knew what the 'cleansing' process was. But still, no Wheel. I'm really stuck on that! Why? It seems so obvious.
Woody
Rob I have always wondered, who figured out that only the fuzzy part of the cactus is dangerous?
rtr
Rob
Ya might want to check out certain edible cactus and try to see whar they were seeing?
===================
That's funny, What your saying is they found the truth and the light beforeTimothy Leary found it..............LOL
rtr
Wilson
rtr, my fellow skeptic, what? the world's going to end?...Again?
===================
Yes haven't you heard, We just got the information over the bongo drums last week from a cannibalistic Indian tribe that there calendar is ending on 12/21/2012.. “It’s all the rage right now” “Its awesome for those that grew up in the Timothy Leary days”
Rob123
"nothing I can do about it anyway." Are you sure? Ya might want to check out certain edible cactus and try to see whar they were seeing? Great Visual Art, as you pointed out. Remember to send me a postcard from the edge......always a hoot.
rtr
Rob
I wonder what we will say after 12/21/12? Either 'whew! Nothing happened" or "Sure got rid off all the Excess housing and commercial real estate!"
====================
Yeah, Thats funny too.
I look at it as just another adventure and a story and if the world flips over there is nothing I can do about it anyway.
Wilson
Benznd, I didn't mean the government caused the collapse, they just didn't have a responsible hand in preventing it, or chose not to. Greed? You bet.
rtr, my fellow skeptic, what? the world's going to end?...Again?
My pastor when I was growing up preaches the old "End is coming soon" sermon every other Sunday. Then my father and mother saw him planting saplings at the church house. Dad came home and told me, "If he's planting trees the end must not be as near as he preaches." After considerable debate, Mom never pressed us to go to service with her again.
A good Vet's day with my family. Hope everyone's went as well.
Rob123
"2012 Mayan calendar ending".....interesting concepts and culture. I wonder what they would have said if they had a clue about Plate Tectonics? I wonder what we will say after 12/21/12? Either 'whew! Nothing happened" or "Sure got rid off all the Excess housing and commercial real estate!"
rtr
Pete
Anybody see the Mayan murals they found? Nothing agains the Mayans...but it seems the only thing missing from the murals is a Gary Larson caption. ;-)
==========================
I looked that up and read about it today, Your comment was funny and I can see the visual.
I can't wait until the next two years worth of conspiracy theories, money making, fear mongering, new religions, over population, Al Gore, maybe truthful, you name it when it comes to the 2012 Mayan calendar ending.
Rob123
benznd: "I get the idea that EFD is cr*ap to you Rob?" Not totally....A lot of good stuff comes from the help afforded by this knowledge skill in diagnosing disabilities. But, as I am sure you know, some folks are diagnosing young adults with certain forms of ADHD and that is not the problem; but hey, get the kid on Ritalin and he perks right up, so ......Speed makes boring cr@p interesting......We were a nation of speed addicts until they (old fashioned diet pills) were outlawed in the early 70's, about the same time assembly line workers started getting bored and quiting for 'anything else'. Asia still sells quality Speed over the counter and without a prescription. It might be more (less?) than nurture and nature to run a good factory mentality?
Woody
It is out of respect for the people here that I like that I will refrain from answering any other recent posts.
Woody
Curious I was an Air Force Security Policeman. Please thank your father for me. Anyone who served long enough to retire (I didn't) made a lot of sacrifices. We are all better off because of him.
rtr
Benznd
rtr, I did not say that the intellectually gifted left and became successful.
===================
You said they have the "capability of succeeding", my mistake..
I was just kidding you because I know I am not always one of your favorite people......{-:
I have never met anyone that left the Valley for good or that left and returned that didn't do better than they probably would have if they stayed in the Valley so your point was well made and I just wish more young people understood that their "OWN" fear of the unknown is what is holding them back and that a few years away from the Valley won't kill them and will definitely expand their minds if nothing else.
If there was ever one thing that any young person ever got out of reading these blogs was to understand the benefits of leaving the Valley for at least a couple years to expand their minds and "Hopefully try to get an education of some sort" "WE ALL" would have succeeded here.
Chances of that are almost ZERO but then again I have bought into a Red Neck retirement plan once before “Lottery ticket” never won though..
benznd
rtr and Rob. Thanks for the opportunity to discuss the plight of our kids. Is a "good" work ethic genetic? You can easily answer that. Public education CAN provide many individuals with opportunities to experience success. Opportunities. That is all I am saying. Put those options out there, support these kids, give them hope and success. I spent a great deal of my early experience in secondary special education. I was up close and personal with vocational programs in Livingston and Anchorage in the early 70's as well as Southeast AK. The kids who participated in these programs were given an opportunity to learn skills that could provide for success in life and be a contributor to society as well.
I get the idea that EFD is cr*ap to you Rob? I am assuming that you understand what it looks like in kids who cannot stop, think, and do? It is real. It often is disguised as ADHD. It is a source of prefrontal bypass. It is real. And it cannot be "fixed." Yet, many many people learn how to compensate if they are given an opportunity to engage in success and to honesty earn their grades and skills. EFD can come from brain injury, prenatal alcohol use, etc. It is real. It took me years to actually understand just what it was. Now that we have fMRI's, we are beginning to understand brain function, mental health, and disabilities. My areas of expertise.
rtr, I did not say that the intellectually gifted left and became successful. They just leave. I do not know what happens later in their lives. They leave to go to higher ed institutions, such as UM or MSU or out of state schools. Sorry if I get carried away, but this is my life's work.
curious
Woody, my father is retired USMC. So Happy Veterans Day. Which branch did you serve? Retired?
curious
The Flathead Community College offers up a variety of vocational studies; Mechanical and Repair to Medical support. With many in-between. There is government funding available to help those financially unable to pay the tuition. But I think for many it is too much work, it takes away from their free time. I raised my family, while I worked full time, while I went back to school to get my bachelor degree nights. It took over 10 years. But in a pinch if I had no job, I would take on one of those working retail through the holidays, or bussing tables. (And I have) It is a work ethic that does not prevail in many of societies welfare folk. By all means they are not stupid. It takes alot of energy and knowledge to be able to stay on welfare. I think in many ways they work harder to stay on welfare than they would at a normal job. The amount of information and loss of privacy shared with social workers to maintain this level and standard of living is amazing. I have a sister that has spent her whole life this way, and will have to find some way to get onto disability to complete her career objectives. And she is not stupid or emotionally challenged. Just too many drugs in her earlier life made everything okay. No drive. Many times she was only 24 hours away from homeless with 4 children. Even this did not compel her to think maybe she should do something different. Sad.
rtr
Rob
or it's the silence from all the missing posters wondering what to say now that rtr is in charge of the discussion?
===================
I am NOT incharge of anything at all, Now that it has become CIVIL it does point out that I was NOT the problem though doesn't it.
rtr
Hey Benznd, I did a little leg work in the “fear of the unknown” and why young people don’t leave the Valley to look for work and or leave Jobs after 30 years even though they can afford too and etc.
It points out that PUBLIC funded education has nothing to do with it and I think you might find it interesting, if not interesting it is certainly educational and FREE.
http://ezinearticles.com/?Fear-Of-The-Unknown-And-How-You-Can-Defeat-It&id=98586
“In most people there is a deeply seated fear that prevents us from taking control of our lives and shaping them to suit us. It is a fear that keeps us average, keeps us doing all the same things everybody else is doing, simply because it is the familiar thing to do”.
Fortunately I never had this kind of fear and or the fear of much at all for that matter but it had to do with the way I was raised and not the school or schools I attended in the Valley.
I did find one thing you said to be a bit humorous “The intellectually and socially gifted” were the ones that left the Flathead Valley and succeeded. Bet you didn’t realize you were talking about me…Sorry Benznd I couldn’t help that….LOL
Rob123
rtr: "Fear of the unknown breeds even more fear of the unknown, "Unfortunate but true." Is that from Baba Ram Dass? or it could have been my Boy Scout leader the first time I rappelled......or it's the silence from all the missing posters wondering what to say now that rtr is in charge of the discussion?
rtr
Benznd
Yet, who are the ones who leave this valley for greener pastures? The intellectually and socially gifted, not necessarily financially, but those who have the capability of succeeding. Guess who stays? No shots at these individuals either, as they are all too often the ones that have been denied a free appropriate education at public expense.
====================
Hey Benznd, I am not picking on you at all and agree with you for the most part.
You were not taking a shot at the people in the Flathead at all with what you stated "YOU ARE 100% CORRECT" when it comes to them not leaving for greener pastures.
Where we differ is that public education has nothing to do with it in my opinion.
I left for many years and came back, Some of my friends never left and most “Not all” did not do very well but it had nothing to do with PUBLIC education or with how intellegent they were.
I can relate to you that I have known people that were intelligent, worked hard, Fit into society well and yet when it came time to retire from a job after thirty years they were AFRAID to leave, "Fear of the unknown" just like some of the young people in the Flathead Valley "That does not equate to a failed PUBLIC education".
It relates to how you were raised as a child “Call it failed parental skills most likely” but a village "PUBLIC education" does not raise a child.
Fear of the unknown breeds even more fear of the unknown, "Unfortunate but true.
rtr
http://www.cato.org/pubs/journal/cj16n1-1.html
Cato Journal
WELFARE AND THE CULTURE OF POVERTY
William A. Niskanen
“At the dawn of the American welfare state, in his 1935 State of the Union message, President Franklin D. Roosevelt (1938: 19-20) proposed social security, unemployment insurance, and (what was then called) aid to dependent children to help the deserving poor, but he added an ominous warning:
The lessons of history, confirmed by evidence immediately before me, show conclusively that continued dependence on relief induces a spiritual and moral disintegration fundamentally destructive to the national fiber. To dole out relief in this way is to administer a narcotic, a subtle destroyer of the human spirit. It is inimical to the dictates of sound policy. It is a violation of the traditions of America.
More than 60 years later, it should be clear that the narcotic of "continued dependence on relief" is less subtle and more destructive than Roosevelt feared"
Rob123
benznd....Thank you......"WE have removed all the alternative educational programs these individuals thrive on. Vocational, hands-on training that produces societally productive responsible adults. " That is a very large, pet peeve in my world. I climb walls when I see someone in bone-head geometry for ? reason? Why not have that person tearing apart a Cat Diesel and putting it back together again? And smiling? And so much of EFD diagnosis (outside of the severe!) is nothing but a college educated person projecting onto someone characteristics they hold dear, SO EVERYONE SHOULD; and it smacks of narrow minded in group- out group theory......If the teacher/psychologist thought tearing a Cat Diesel down and putting it back together was WORTHY of PROFESSIONAL status, it would be taught, and a lot of EFD patients would be cured. My opinion. And if you every had a Diesel Mechanic put an engine back together and NOT change the throw out bearing, ......gGod! Ugh! Why not teach people how to do things correctly? We might not live out on the Farm anymore, but there is still a lot of Farm Equipment that needs fixed, correctly. And the skill is expandable!
rtr
Mental illness only gets better with improved self-esteem which relates to working for a living and NOT government handouts.
Prime example is the Flathead Valley with the recycling plant hiring people with "Autism" which proved to be good for the Valley and the people working there.
This is true for all mental illness and welfare does nothing but breed depression and suicide.
.
rtr
Benznd
Or go through the humiliation of receiving a "welfare check" or paying for food with food stamps while others look at you in disgust.
====================
If what you say is true then why is it that there are so many career welfare cases that work harder at staying on welfare than they do at getting a job when they are MORE than capible of working?
benznd
Rob, in any school setting, there are as many as 20% of the students who more than struggle with reading and writing. Way too many come into the system (kindergarten mostly) totally lacking in language skills, who are a product of their familial and societal environment (nurture). Many of these individuals were born intact, meaning that nature had succeeded in delivering an individual capable of surviving depending upon an equally appropriate nurturing component.
Was it Plato, am too lazy to look it up, who identified two perceptions of life, so to speak. One of illusion and one of reality. I know I am not stating it correctly,
yet you dig my meanen or get my drift? Too many of US are living in the illusionary world. Reality, all around us, says that life is what it is. Open eyes, take out wallet. These lost souls are dependent upon you and me for their survival in this dog eat dog world.
Now, let us take this one step further. It is so easy to look the other way and think these individuals choose to receive public assistance that barely feeds their poverty stricken lives. Reality? If everyone was as gifted as we are, and I do not say that sarcastically, who would work for $7.30 an hour? Or go through the humiliation of receiving a "welfare check" or paying for food with food stamps while others look at you in disgust.
WE have removed all the alternative educational programs these individuals thrive on. Vocational, hands-on training that produces societally productive responsible adults. No, we have an advanced educational program at Flathead High for the gifted and talented. I DO NOT oppose this program. Yet, who are the ones who leave this valley for greener pastures? The intellectually and socially gifted, not necessarily financially, but those who have the capability of succeeding. Guess who stays? No shots at these individuals either, as they are all too often the ones that have been denied a free appropriate education at public expense. Yet we have cut or gutted the educational vocational programs that prepare these individuals for the world of work.
Teach the three R's we say. Look around folks. We been there done that. Time to treat the rest of society with success. That is the only way out. Or, have the churches pray on them as they are easy targets. Lost souls ready for picken and turnen into absolute idiots all for the Sunday collection plate.
Life is not mystical. People cannot be categorized. Just as every aspect of human growth and development has its biological roots "Molecules of Emotion", every aspect of socially responsible development has its familial cultural roots "Children in Crisis".
DO NOT TAKE THE EASY WAY OUT AND CATEGORIZE THESE INDIVIDUALS AS LAZY BUMS OR THOSE WHO DIAGNOSE AS ENABLERS.
rtr
Correction:
Liberals believe socialism is a path to equality when in reality it is every thing but equality for all and yet when it comes to a flat tax which "IS" equality for all they are dead set against it.
There is a hypocrisy in that which amazes me to no end.
Can someone explain this to me?
rtr
Liberals believe socialism is a path to equality and yet when it comes to a flat tax which "IS" equality for all they are dead set against it.
There is a hypocrisy in that which amazes me to no end.
rtr
Rob
Maybe a Media run Party.
==================
Absolutley not, "ABC, NBC, CBS", That is what we got with Obama and look what a disaster that has turned out to be.
What I said was the media is the Hope and Change. "With that said I meant to point out how the government is scr*wing us when it comes to taxes and retirement funds".
Rob123
Ron Paul, like Augustine's "City of God", is a good diversion from what's going down in real time. Do you have any 3rd party thoughts? Maybe a Media run Party, per your comment about “The media is our only Hope for Change”. You would be a hit with the Communication Dept. at Any University, and Fox News. How do you steer yourself away from pure nihilism? Humor? Purchase stock and bonds that have Murdoch's fingerprints? I'm trying to understand.
rtr
Rob
1. I can honestly say that right now, Supply and Demand still exists and must be watched closely, but ! and it's a big
1-A. BUT, it's more Vegas than rational. It took off in 2005, and nothing has changed, yet. Wild swings
2. And since small business tax rates are higher than billionaire Capital Gain Rates, the debt could be reduced faster by spreading the money/profit around.....
3.Transparency in Hedge Funds would be a step in that direction......How, rtr, does one regulate without strangling? I need some insight.
Rob, It is kind of like Rebel and Myself were talking about you will never see it to where we get to vote on politicians wages and benefits even though it would be the right thing to do since they are suppose to be working for us and NOT the other way around.
1. There will always be a demand if you have people no matter what.
1-A. You may laugh but when I said I was semi-retired at one point the work included day trading and the rest just retired.
With that in mind I know exactly what you mean, I have gained significantly twice this year and lost it twice this year and about even right now but I believe by the end of the year we will be back up again. ”All Vegas style just like you said”
2. We are probably on opposite sides of the fence when it comes to Ron Paul but I believe he has the best idea with a flat tax which is fair for everyone and creates an incentive to make more money than to stay under the poverty level so you can slid out without paying taxes and it would make the rich pay their fair share.
2-A. We all know this will never happen either since it is the rich that buy and pay for our government officials today. “To me that is criminal and yet they do it right in front of us with so called lobbyists every day”.
2-B. Not picking on the Democrats but they are using the so called poor to prop up Health Care which will force everyone to buy insurance or be fined and stealing money from Medicare that we paid into . “What a joke that is with taking advantage of the ignorant and the middle class”.
2-C. Then you have the Republicans voting against it just so they can get elected next time since the people really don’t want this Health Care but when it comes right down to it one party is NO better than the other and they will pull the same kind of cr*p when they get in.
3. I am right on the same page with you on that one.
3-A. Most people reading this probably won’t under stand this part “You will” It needs to be to where we are allowed to have an additional column that shows who and how many shares are being bought or sold by any hedge funds or other entities including banks or over seas transactions in the market. “We now that will never happen because it would level the playing field for people like you and me”.
4, Example of why we will never in our life time see any fairness in the market or changes with large corporations.
A. Enron devastated their workers with the 401K’s and so called legislation was pasted so that would never happen again. “That was an OUT RIGHT lie and NOTHING has changed”
If you have a 401K with a company you still have to keep it in their 401K plan if there are any matching funds and or the company dictates that is the only 401K they support so you are always at the mercy of the company you work for just like with Enron and NOTHING has changed and all of those 401K’s are tied to the company stocks in one way or another.
“With hind sight I would have opted out of Social Insecurity and saved the money I earned working for any company in my private 401K and tell those companies to stick their matching funds where the sun doesn’t shine”.
With all that said and done I don’t see anything we can do at our level to ever change it Rob.
It is one of the reasons I like to watch MSNBC during the day is to see just how corrupt it really is and to watch the frustration in the commentator’s eyes when the rich and the politicians start telling them lies. “The media is our only Hope for Change”.
Rob123
Why the Rabbi's on the mural/hieroglyphics? And with their Math skills, ya think someone would have come up with 'The Ouroboros' or at least a wheel to carry rocks? I'm sure a less Linear world view would have decreased the amount of Heart Ache many experienced? Maybe even made p*nis piercing/blood letting "old school"?
Pete
Anybody see the Mayan murals they found? Nothing agains the Mayans...but it seems the only thing missing from the murals is a Gary Larson caption. ;-)
Woody
Thank you, Pete. We may disagree on a lot of things, but I will stand beside you anytime, anywhere.
Pete
Thanks to all Veterans and their families and those who continue to serve. A special shout out to my buddies...505...you know who you are. 4 Truths....Cheers.
Woody
rtr I don't know if you have much experience with dogs, but they fall into three categories. There are those dogs that you can kick and never see again. And, there are those dogs that you kick and next time they see you come running up to you like nothing ever happened. Then, there is that rare dog that you kick and every time he sees you after that he bites you. I am the third kind of dog. I have never let an uncivil person decide when it is time to become civil again. BTW, if you have Frank check his email, he will find that I have not written him directly in over a year. To all the rest of you have a quiet and peaceful Veterans' Day. You earned it.
Rob123
Benznd.....I support Mental Health! Yet i have a difficult time seeing the Science of EFD as opposed to seeing the personal politics/philosophy of the psychologist diagnosing the affliction. Can you offer me some clarity on this?
Rob123
rtr....as you probably know, I am not retired. This blog is a stress relief thing, and a good way to know people in this area. I buy and sell commodities in the Futures Market PLUS take physical control of some everyday. I can honestly say that right now, Supply and Demand still exists and must be watched closely, but ! and it's a big BUT, it's more Vegas than rational. It took off in 2005, and nothing has changed, yet. Wild swings, which for a Retailer buying Wholesale, the difference between buying on Tuesday instead of Wednesday, or vice versa, is the difference between making or losing money for that day or week (depending on inventory turn over rate). There is no Adult Supervision, and one has to be totally involved and hedged, meaning access to capital, or the big boys will crush you with their expertise at playing the game WITH ACCESS TO CAPITAL. Not necessarily because they are smarter or work harder, but because the game has become rigged. Who has the Political Will to Regulate? Who has the decency to put Futures Markets back into the realm of allowing the Market to dictate pricing by allowing producers, suppliers, retailers a say in the game, without the Billionaires jumping in causing havoc and fear and then jumping out with a nice little tidy return on their money, until their next gamble? For example.....Today, if you fill your car up at $2.579 for Unleaded in the Flathead, the only people making money on that transaction (here in the Flathead) are the tanker driver who pulled the load in (wages) and the Bank that issued the Credit Card (2%). The owner of the station/c-store breaks even if you pay cash (of course Over-Head isn't met), and loses about 5 cents a gallon if you use your credit card. Why? And Crude Oil at $80.00 a BBl, when Refinery Utilization is running at 80%, Inventories of Crude and Refined Product is at 28 year highs, and certain traders of such commodities are getting $100M dollar a year paychecks as their take after their Company keeps the biggest part. Why? Do we need Adult Supervision inorder to get our country functioning again? I think so.......And since small business tax rates are higher than billionaire Capital Gain Rates, the debt could be reduced faster by spreading the money/profit around.....Transparency in Hedge Funds would be a step in that direction......How, rtr, does one regulate without strangling? I need some insight.
Rob123
rtr.....I agree, Job creation is VERY important. I know we had a little run araound concerning the bank bailouts during our screaming dazes, but ; if you were Pres., or Fed Chief, or Sec of Treasury, in the late summer, fall of 2008 and faced with the collapse of the Financial system, and the impending return of 1930's style "the money done dried up!" , what direction would you have jumped? Especially taking into consideration that China was sitting in a $1.8 Trillion Surplus, and the Europeans were throwing money into their banking system, and Brazil seemed inoculated and both Had money and was Making money.......and the big Solvent money in America was in hard to understand and very unregulated and non-transparent Hedge Funds (at least on paper).....doing nothing would have hurt, that is for sure, but also opened the flood gates to foreign ownership 'at pennies on the dollar', which probably would have been the beginning of your nemises 'New World Order' with ..............?....consequences. We have the luxury of Hindsight here, so I am interested in your scenario. The future is cloudy, but it's primarily OUR debt cloud; and now we have to fix it? Are we like the 25 year old with a 30 year Home Mortgage that Can be paid off over time with hard work, keeping the old head out of the bottle, a little delayed gratification (NO Porsche!), and the good luck to NOT get a divorce down the road? We are going to see what America's Mind Set is, I reckon.
benznd
There are hundreds of thousands of individuals born with EFD (Executive Function Disorder) ADHD, FAS, autism, schizophrenia, stress disorders and many other disorders. These individuals generally do not function well in society. They are dependent upon public assistance and/or SSI . Let us not be so quick to pass judgment. There but for the grace of gGod go I.
rtr
Woody
I have a couple of questions. How come rtr can suddenly spell and punctuate? Has anyone ever seen rtr and Frank in the same place at the same time?
=======================
Have you noticed that everyone else is keeping it civil, I have never met Frank but I can put in a good word for you via email to him if you like the same way you liberals have for me. "Get my drift"
Woody
I have a couple of questions. How come rtr can suddenly spell and punctuate? Has anyone ever seen rtr and Frank in the same place at the same time?
rtr
Rebel
I personally believe higher pay brings better quality individuals to the table.
==============================
I totaly agree with that in the private sector but it hasn't worked so well for us in the political arena since it is only attracking two bit loser lawyers that can't keep a job anywhere else only. "Both parties lately".
By the way I do not believe in revolution and still believe we will change chorse with the political system as slow as it may look like it is moving "It is moving back to the conservative side or they know they will get voted out" At least Senators, Representitives and at the states levels. "I do not believe our vote counts for president and has been proven to be bought off for many many years now. "Hanging chads" yeah right...{-:
rtr
Rebel
I know what rtr stands for!!! Rags to riches, yes!
===========================
You know I never thought of it that way but that was good.
Compared to the easy way out with welfare I would take my "Rags To Riches" any day.
Rebel Rouser
I know what rtr stands for!!! Rags to riches, yes!
Rebel Rouser
rtr said, What would you think of that one for starters?" H*ll yes!! I don't wan to support lazy illegal (or legal) aliens and or anyone else who uses the safety net for a way to make a living. Politicians will NEVER allow us to set their wages, although I personally believe higher pay brings better quality individuals to the table. TARP was/is a flaming joke, but the joke is on us. This act should have brought about a full on revolution against the government but most just sit idle and say "well watcha gonna do?" I'm not answering for Rob but YES, putting people to work IS what makes our economy. As far as poaching goes, if a guy has to get meat for his family I don't consider it poaching. If it's for antlers, hang em by the b@lls.
rtr
Question for you Rob, Would you agree it is people working that brings the economy back or do you think welfare and paying back campaign paybacks "Bail outs and Buy outs" that makes the economy recover?
My observation is if people were put to work those jobs would create a demand for supplies needed to maintain those jobs which relates to even more jobs from the companies supplying those goods.
Then in return the housing would pick up, people would buy cars, and etc. and slowly the economy would recover on it's own and people could move into the private sector.
Kind of like the "Fairness Doctrine" which has been pointed out to be a financial failure since liberal media does not sell in the long run.
Would you agree or not?
rtr
Rob, Maybe a better way to answer your question would have been to say we need to throw the political bums out and get back what TARP little money we can and start putting people to work with it untill the economy can slowly recover on its own.
rtr
Rob, I am not heartless even though that has been a insult used against me.
Where welfare is a problem is when it is an enabler to lazyness like Rebel pointed out.
I have no problem with people being helped out, The old style food "Commodities" was great and did not enable people to take advantage of wealth re-distrabution which is all welfare is today..
We have all seen or even had family members that were career welfare cases that worked harder at staying on welfare than they would have if they would have went out and got a real job.
The poaching, shoplifting, kidnapping and etc. is fear mongering "Nothing less and nothing more".
Yes it is tough times right now and I don't think we have even begun to see the bottom.
With the TRILLIONS Obama has spent on TARP bailouts we could be putting people to work even if it was like the old CCC program days but at least they would be working and not stealing money by just sitting around doing nothing.
Unfortunately Obama has spent about everything there is to spend on his campaign pay backs and there is NOTHING left.."That to me is criminal".
You covered the gamet here, "housing tracts that are 'excess'", It should NOT be up to us or the government as to what the banks do with them since the banks should not have been bailed out in the first place.
With that in mind there is always someone that will buy bankrupt contracts even if it is for pennies on the dollar.
Look the other way "H*LL NO" do what you can to improve the economy which is NOT at all what Obama has done. "Art museums" "Clown factories" are not the answer to stabalizing an economy and if you notice only half of the stimulus package is even destined to go for job growth at this time which is $400,000 Billion compared to TRILLIONS in TARP money that the banks are NOT loaning out NOR do the small businesses have a need for with a failing economy.
Bottom line is we are in deep sh*t do to what Obama has already do to this country in less than a year.
Rob123
rtr....I was a big supporter of Welfare to Workfare, still am........2 things: 1) an economy based on bubbles, the latest one being a Housing - mortgage - Easy Money bubble, will suck people out of the Welfare Morass, but now we have another mess, Should we bulldoze housing tracts that are 'excess' and empty and foreclosed? Creates jobs? 2) Bubbles burst-economies tank- unemployment checks are expected, and help keep foreclosures down and some food on the table without Poaching or Shoplifting. Should we look the other way at some poaching? We are looking the other way at Fannie, Freddy and FHA, along with the NEW Asian Housing Bubble that is mighty huge these past 3 Q.....
rtr
Hey Rebel, I looked up the welfare reform act under Clinton and I was correct.
I believe it is worthwhile to read it in its entirety.
It would have been a huge step forward if they would have followed through with it and enforced it but they never have.
http://www.faqs.org/childhood/Th-W/Welfare-Reform-Act-1996.html
"The law ended AFDC. It required work in exchange for temporary relief; no more than two years could be used before parents would be working or in job training. No recipient could have more than five years of assistance cumulatively. There were a handful of concessions, such as providing new monies for childcare and medical insurance for mothers in cases in which mothers were shifting to employment. The 1996 act also destroyed the independence mothers enjoyed under AFDC. For example, single mothers could afford to attend school part time, or even full time depending on family resources, to advance themselves and qualify for better jobs than they had before. The new law of 1996 made that very difficult, because states could diminish allocations and also limit the time one was on welfare, a serious problem in a cyclical or depressed local economy. Conservative thinkers won a major victory in politics. Culturally this was also a triumph too for the free market, individualistic worldviews of those who had attacked the rationales for the New Deal and the national welfare state".
rtr
Rebel
Here is where the problem lies. I am all for lending a helping hand (damned bleeding heart!) but to support several generations of the same family as welfare recipients is crossing the line. Again, HOW do we get this status quo changed?
=========================
Rebel
Here is where the problem lies. I am all for lending a helping hand (damned bleeding heart!) but to support several generations of the same family as welfare recipients is crossing the line. Again, HOW do we get this status quo changed?
=========================
We are on exactly the same page with this one, I believe it was Clinton that passed a welfare reform law that stated any and all welfare recipients that were on welfare had two years to get a job or they would be taken off the roles "Laziness would not be tolerated" Unfortunately the law was never followed up on and the same people are still on the rolls do to political votes generated "Bought and paid for through welfare" and that is what needs to stop. "If they are on the government dole then they should not have the right to vote until they get a job other wise they are just like the politicians voting themselves pay raises, exorbitant pensions and insurance plans that you and me will never have".
I say we do that with welfare cases and we the people have to vote on the politicians pay raises and not them.
What would you think of that one for starters?
rtr
Republicans Jump to Six-Point Lead on Generic Ballot
Tuesday, November 10, 2009
“Republican candidates have stretched their lead over Democrats to six points in the Generic Congressional Ballot.
The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey shows that 43% would vote for their district’s Republican congressional candidate while 37% would opt for his or her Democratic opponent. Republicans have held the lead for over four months now.
Voters not affiliated with either party continue to heavily favor Republicans, 43% to 20%”.
This is due to the way the Obama administration is handling Bailouts, Buyouts, Health Care and soon to be Cap and Trade today and where the American people see we are headed if we continue down the path the Democrats are taking us now with Tax and Spend of money we don’t have.
I am not a Republican at all but anything is better than what we have in office now in my opinion and the majority of America’s are realizing it also by the looks of these latest polls.
Even if we are (sometimes) wrong, I was wrong once, :).
"Me too Rebel" and I have enjoyed our ability to agree to disagree.
Rebel Rouser
On a side note, Thanks to Frank Miele for NOT stopping rtr from his wild ride (theft of the blog). I did not agree with the totalitarian method rtr used, and I don't agree with many of his view points, however, he did manage to get his point across without any bloodletting. We need (as free men) the ability to voice our opinion even if we are (sometimes) wrong, I was wrong once, :).
Rebel Rouser
"should I take two advil and call you in the morning?" Yes, rectally (the pills not the phone!!!) Ha, ha. How can we get all of those welfare abusers off the dole? Do you agree that we need a net for some of our countrymen (in case they should fall) to get them back on their feet without total economic ruination? Welfare was suppose to be just that, a helping hand, but then certain groups of our society decided "hey this is too easy, sleep in and still get paid". Here is where the problem lies. I am all for lending a helping hand (damned bleeding heart!) but to support several generations of the same family as welfare recipients is crossing the line. Again, HOW do we get this status quo changed?
rtr
Thank You Rob for the civility,
If you note the country was over a hundred and fifty years old when Roosevelt started implementing socialism with "SS" and there was NO kidnappings for survival and there would be now either since the mentality of the people in the USA is not the same as third world countries "Not yet any way".
I am not saying this badly but you make it sound like America would fall apart and anarchy would transpire if we made the welfare cases go to work instead of mooching off the government and making it a life time career and I am sure that would not happen and those that chose that route could be dealt with.
NOTE, Handouts and Welfare breeds more Welfare ONLY.
People took responsibility for themselves, Even the immigrants and Roosevelt took advantage of the depression in order to implement socialism with "SS" and for no other reason.
People are no better off with social Insecurity today than they were prior to Roosevelt when all is said and done and the fear mongering is when people are lead to believe they can not take care of themselves without government help.
Rob123
benznd.....I want to try it, but first, define "a small amount of acid such as hydrochloric acid"......I have a big nose, so how small is small? And don't go over my head! keep it simple, and to the point. p.s. If my nose dropper disolves from the acid while it's in my nose, should I take two advil and call you in the morning?
Rob123
Woody, Woody, Woody......(-:
benznd
Wilson, I am on board with you, most all the way. You say our government caused the economic collapse? I say it was greed. Opportunities presented themselves for beaucoup bucks and million dollar salaries. Govt' employees are bound by salary schedules.
I trust in everything you say, as I did not detect any personal opinion presented as fact. Thank you. I am sure there is a great deal of frustration, anger and hurt that is not directly stated in your comment. I just want you to know bro, you are not alone and, perhaps we can't work it out, as it now has a life of its own. This is frightening to me. Just as frightening to me now as the motar round that nearly took my life in 1966. I was young and full of life then. Now I am old and full of wisdom. My fear has evolved from personal protection to protection of our Country and future generations from fear mongers and profiteers.
benznd
PhysOrg.com) -- Scientists have found that acidic ozone water can deactivate H1N1 viruses very effectively, offering a promising disinfectant for the millions of people trying to avoid the disease. Acidic ozone water (AOW) is made from regular tap water mixed with a small amount of acid such as hydrochloric acid, along with an ozonized gas that can be produced in the lab. After deactivating the virus, the substance eventually decays into plain water, leaving no residue or harmful materials in the environment.
Jeez, just as I thought, another govmnt population/mind seizing exercise. Give them trillions of our hard earned money to do this kind of horsepucky research then stand back and wait for the planes to fly over and drop this stuff on us. Eh Frank?
Woody
Rob, I have seen the same thing in private business. If you have a problem employee, promote them out of your area. You know, like from newsroom reporter to upstairs editor.
rtr
Rebel, I TOTALY AGREE with you but remember who is in office at the present time.
The past is gone and the present is here and it is only getting worse.
If we were going to lay blame it would be on Roosevelt with "SS" and the begining of socialism BUT you can not turn the clock back so now is the time to fight against the continued colapse of the country and the downward spiral we are in and get back to the country we once new. "A free Republic"
Rob123
rtr: "One million divided by 30 "Life after retirement" divided by 12 "For twelve months" and you get $2,777.00 a month. "This would be the bare minimum the average person would get if the controled their OWN money." You are on to something there.....didn't Pres Bush kind of try this balloon, and it fell real flat? I thought it an excellent plan, however, we get back to people.......and personal responsibility levels......and the ability to work hard for delayed gratification..........if you can think of a way to do it, I will support the plan. One problem with such a plan, that should be noted before it goes into effect, is how to keep the folks who dither around from pay check to pay check and then they grow old without a penny saved and SOME of them will look at other 3rd world countries where this IS the actual plan, and ........kidnapping becomes a viable form of survival, or contraband. At levels that we don't see here in the U.S......Why? Because our safety net buys them off. That is Real Politik. One can wrap it in softer rhetoric, if one wants.
Rebel Rouser
I have always thought social security was a boondogle but it has been there since I was born. They have extracted from my paycheck from the very first job I had and I continue to pay. It looks like for the first time since it's inception they will not be able to keep their end of the deal, leaving a fair sized group of Americans with a huge net loss for their "investment". I don't agree with most of these government programs (ie. welfare), but the Republicans had the chance to change all of this (many times), and they claim to be the party of less government, but when they get into office these programs NEVER change. The amount of money spent on welfare in this country doesn't change from one political party to the other. Why not? I do not support the "fleecing of America" by either party and I feel it coming. I don't think the almighty American/global corporations are going to bail us out. They will keep moving their business out of the U.S. and let the country wither. My cynicism has developed over a long period of time fraught with government waste and corruption, go figure.
rtr
Your humor for the day.
I was depressed last night so I called Lifeline.
Got a freakin' call center in Pakistan
I told them I was suicidal.
They got all excited and asked if I could drive a truck.
rtr
Rebel, The example of social Insecurity is if you were able to have put that money away yourself you would be a Million Aire when you retired EVEN with the crash in 2008 - 2009 but instead you will end up with $2,500 a month at the very most and $1,500 average a month now since the government keeps raising the amount per yearly income to pay into it not to mention they are trying to raise the age in which you quailify to recieve YOUR OWN money..
One million divided by 30 "Life after retirement" divided by 12 "For twelve months" and you get $2,777.00 a month. "This would be the bare minimum the average person would get if the controled their OWN money.
If you only lived 15 years after retirement you could pass down your OWN money to your kids instead of the government STEALING it.
What I also said that was very important is if the government wanted people to know the truth they would make it a manditory class in high school to raise awareness to long term investments BUT the government does NOT want you to realize what they are STEALING from you so that will never happen.
rtr
Rebel, If the government really cared about the people they would dismantle SS, Medicare and give all that money back to the people.
With that amount of money people with common sense could retire with a modest income "From iterest and etc" instead of the government stealling from those pots and then hoping you die early so they can keep as much as possible of what you paid into it.
As for Medicade it needs to have a time limit set so people can take responsibility for themselves and take pride in themselves instead of making it a career of mooching off the governement.
rtr
Rebel, You are correct with what I have stated, You left out that I called social security "Social Inesecurity" which was the start of this governmental theivery.
The problem is they are making more failed programs instead of fixing the ones that exist and even worse is they are STEAL from what we have already paid into for these up coming failed programs.
Rebel Rouser
"The eldery have paid into Medicare all their lives now and the Obama administration is trying to STEAL" Wasn't it you who said social security, medicare, and medicaid are all going broke(or something to that effect)? Isn't it a fact that these programs can no longer support the number of baby boomers coming into their retirement age and will be bankrupt before too long? Isn't it true that SOMETHING HAS TO BE DONE and that is why so many politicians support a major change in the health care industry? Have our political leaders dug us into a hole that is too deep to get out of? So many questions, so few answers.
Rawhide
Turn off the mic. Pull the plug. Finally someone has shown other networks and commentators how to counter those who won't answer the question, or constantly interupt and shout down an opponent who disagrees with them. Congratulations MSNBC for taking the initiative in using this effective response. I've been waiting for someone to pull the plug on these goons for years.
rtr
As for monies spent on the elderly; what a political football, with Doctors totally involved in Defensive Medicine inorder to keep the Class Action Lawyers and such at bay;
====================
Stealing from Medicare is not a political football, The eldery have paid into Medicare all their lives now and the Obama administration is trying to STEAL that money to use on purposes that it was NOT intended to be spent on and the quaility of care for the eldery will decline because of it with regular Medicare and Obama want to completely do away with the Medicare Advantage plan which is devistating for the elderly.
Doctors and Class action law suits do not come into play for the elderly especially when they paid into Medicare it and now it is being taken away from them
As for who wants the government health care I see a few sides to that.
1. It looks like the democrats have NO intention of FREE Health Care and it will end up taking money from people that have whinned the most for FREE handouts...."Too bad for them"
2. It will lower the standards of all Health Care in America if it ends up that people are to lazy to even shop for health care and decide to go with the government plan which is predicted to happen.
3. There will be a few that benifit from it that are somewhere in the middle since it will only cost $3,700 a year as compared to someone now paying $5,000.00 for the same low quaility insurance.
Pete
Wilson says....."Who's to give when all are dead?"
Sure but we'd all be "equal" then right? Does that make you feel better? That's why they say "socialism is the equal sharing of misery".
Pete
They used the Patriot Act to catch calls from Hasan to the nutty Iman living in Yemen and vice versa and then do nothing with the information? If thats not what the Patriot act is for...then what is it for? Curious.
Pete
Hasan etc...I do think it is PC madness. I also think the Department of Homeland Security is a total waste of money and resources...just another one of Bush's big government boondogles.
Pete
Rob...a reasonable answer on election 2000. I was just curious why you posted it when you had said you had voted for Bush...it appeared to be a contradiction...but I didn't want to say so until you explained...and you did.
Wilson
Gee, that was long. A shorter version? When the poor and disenfranchised severely outnumber the fortunate and the fortunate's ability to support them, what gets sacrificed? The poor and disenfranchised or the philosophy that sustains them?
Give till it hurts then give some more. Give till you die? (Metaphorically die, financially eg.) Who's to give when all are dead?
To work, to work...
Wilson
Good morning to all. Benznd, I see you are a man willing to discuss the philosophies of politics. Which means you have a pretty good idea where your personal philosophies lie. The old 'self examined life' if I may. Instead of tearing this down and asking if the government should force others to help others let's take a different tack.
Let me ask, "Should the government not be partially responsible for the plight of the unfortunate?" When the government fails at constructing and upholding sound economic policy, people suffer. When the government provides a buffet of assistance for the people they have caused to suffer it must draw upon the more fortunate to assist in their recovery. This in turn spreads the suffering to even more people.
In our compassion we have opened the doors to nearly everyone on the planet. People from all over the world flock here by the thousands daily, many of them with a full suitcase and an empty stomach. You say, "Welcome." I say, "Where are we going to put all of our guests?"
It's not an evil thing to say the house is full, there are no jobs, that we the hosts just can't afford to have guests, most who want to stay and will work for their food, but guess what? The number of jobs is finite. And even though the jobs are all taken, guests keep arriving.
My heart is big like yours. Every day people accost me for money, for this charity or that, personal charity as well as organized. For a loan that may not be paid back. To cosign a car loan. To help pay the rent. I gave. And I gave. And soon I had the reputation of being a soft touch and more came, many more than once. How many of those people whom I have helped really needed it or were just too darn lazy to earn for themselves? How many did I 'feed for a day' and are still hungry due to their own lack of work ethics? How many are just too ignorant to really make it for themselves and will always, till the day they die, need assistance? And how many is too many?
I find myself financially unable to help now. The economy tanked due to the ignorance and greed of my government. Business has all but dried up. I employ 3 people now when before I had twelve. There is no profit, just a lease to satisfy and insurance to pay, health insurance for employees, vehicle insurance, liability insurance, the list goes on. My company now exists to support corporations.
We need an honest assessment of our assets before we can discuss largess, before we can once again entertain our personal philosophies. Not because we are greedy and heartless, but to ensure that we can survive these hard and soon to be harder times.
Remember "Give till it hurts?" Well, it hurts. Can we stop giving? At least slow it down and give to the ones who really, really need it.
The Health Care bill? I hope it goes through. We already have to pay for everyone's medical bills. What's going to change?
Rob123
Woody: I'm still waiting for more information, but it looks like.............I just don't know yet.............PC gone berserk?..............Yet I can imagine a Psychoanalyst treating PTSD soldiers, inquiring about this and that from many sources, would seem 'normal': however, Psychoanalysts ALWAYS have a counterparty Psychoanalyst as everyone tries to remain sane. Certainly the 'other' trained analyst would have seen something? Was it passed on? Or in the great tradition of the Military, "Let's transfer him out! Let someone else deal with it!". Not being cynical, but most Vets know it happens. Usually for mundane stuff, but obviously, not always? It's looking ugly......
Woody
Nat I am now on board. How can a member of the U S Army have repeated contacts with a radical imam and not be considered a threat. If this is what we get from a newly created cabinet level department who's sole task is to provide Homeland Security, we are getting ripped off. It may be that someone could slip under the radar but this guy was carrying a big sign. This is sad. So many good Americans dead or wounded because someone couldn't read the writing on the Wall.
Rob123
Since we are the only ones awake, rtr, I will respond to you. One outrageous comment by me or you toward you or me, and I am back to ignoring your posts.......I don't watch MSNBC, but if they are actually making Elected Officials speak in the here and now, that is good. As for monies spent on the elderly; what a political football, with Doctors totally involved in Defensive Medicine inorder to keep the Class Action Lawyers and such at bay; while the owners of the Nursing Homes sneak laws through to prevent money for Home Care going to relatives, forcing people to put their older parents in 'Homes' (some are Warehouses for the elderly) that tend to be owned by Republican Donors and are almost all paid for by Government $. It's almost political suicide to take these folks on directly, because the rhetoric (Death Panels......etc.,etc.,) is so outrageous. What happened to Common Sense? Why are we at the mercy of Lobbyists? And filthy rich Lobbyist at that? I really don't get the inability to sit down and talk it out. My mother passed away over Labor Day, after 6 years in a "home" (89 years old), and the cost is amazing......However, her body was giving out, and she needed care 24/7, and what is a person to do? The owners of said home run a good place, from the electronic headquarters thousands of miles away and located next to a Chair Lift and Golf Course. It's VERY profitable, assuming one doesn't make bad bets in the Stock Market.
rtr
MSNBC is now turning off the MIC when liberals in government refuse to answer questions by turning the subject to Bush since the Democrats have been in power for almost a year and are not taking responsibility for current events..
Example: The question was given to democratic house liberal as to why they thought they had the right to take away Medicare from the elderly even though they had paid into it all their lives and put it in a general Health Care which would hurt the elderly.
The answer was it is all Bush’s fault, The democrat was then given three chances to answer the question intelligently and by taking responsibility for their actions and they refused to do it so it was MIC off.
This is becoming the norm with the democrats and the media is getting tiered of it.
Rob123
And since we are on 'old times', why was Marc Racicot, Pres Bush's 1st pick for U.S.Attorney General, rejected by Republican Insiders? It speaks volumes for what was going on inside the Republican Party.....Marc is 10 weeks older than me, we were Alter Boys together, teenagers together, then he went off to Carroll College and U of M Law School while I went off to U of Portland and Vietnam and U of Oregon grad school. Then we reconnected when he was running for Attorney General of Mt. Why was this good man rejected by Republican Insiders for Atty Gen.? It speaks volumes to the present condition of the Grand Olde Party. I could go on and on, but most would find it boring, so google it......
Rob123
well Pete, yawn, my day is starting.....Sorry you got so anxious about the 2000 election thingy, but I do need a little beauty rest. As you probably know, I voted for Pres Bush in 2000; like most Americans I was transfixed with horror and amusement of the cynical type over the recount and dangly chads and how a nation that walked on the moon could be this ,,,,,?.....I was out of words! Growing up with and living next to and being in contact with my old friend Marc Racicot helped me realize there were some good, cool heads behind the media frenzy. Sorrysob's pointing out of 3 U.S.C.~5 was a start, and the later realization that Pres Bush still would have won (although it was iffy at the time of the Supreme Court ruling, slightly?).....All in all, I was happy with the decision, and Al Gore took it with admirable respect for the law, and now it's history. As you could probably tell from the quotation marks on my original post, it was a cut and paste email expressing an opinion concerning the Republican Whine and Cry sent to me by a staunch Democratic friend from the Left Coast. I thought it said a lot about the current condition of our current political condition. I'm sure you have problems with it. In fact, I knew you would, which is why I cut and pasted it, instead of merely hitting the delete button and moving on. May we move on now?
rtr
http://www.cis.org.au/policy/winter03/polwin03-2.pdf
The welfare lobby claims most unemployed people not only say they want to work, but also are motivated to do so. However, evidence is emerging that challenges this conventional wisdom, writes Peter Saunders
The welfare lobby’s claims that virtually all unemployed
people want to work, and that few if any opt willingly for a life on welfare, have rarely been tested empirically. They are defended with emotion and rhetoric rather than evidence and logic.
The report indicates that 57% of jobseekers at any one time are ‘demotivated’. Fewer than half are determined to find work (and some of them are choosy about what they will accept). Claimants may thus need ‘hassle’ as well as ‘help’ if they are ever to move from welfare to work.
Time limits on welfare not only raise the motivation of claimants, and reinforce their understanding that assistance is only temporary, but also help change the culture of welfare officials by forcing them to put more time and effort into placing their more problematic clients.
benznd
Funny thing Pedro, adopting my tactic of asking for a response, repeatedly. How is that working for ya Pete. Rob will no doubt respond. Why? Because he can. Think about it.
benznd
wilson, here is something for you to respond to if you wish? When you talk a out personal responsibility and minimal govt intervention, are you making the assumption that all of us are equally advantaged in this society. Are there solid parameters, black and/or white, regarding the human condition. Earlier we talked about nature/nurture on this site. Good discussion. Gives government responsibility a place in our nation. We are the government, each and every one. We have a responsibility to our fellow man/woman. Just as we build roads and provide for our safety, we must also provide for the less fortunate. No one chooses to be poor. No one chooses to be abused and/or neglected as a youngster.
rtr
The American people have made it clear their disgust for this administration with protests and through every poll availible on both the liberal and conservative side.
Obama made many pleages to get us out of the wars and yet he is expanding them today by only sending enough troops that it will put the existing troops lives in danger because he has no sense of leadership.
rtr
Pelosi Yanks Holder's Chain on Gun Control
March 2, 2009
"'President Obama indicated during the campaign, there are just a few gun-related changes that we would like to make, and among them would be to reinstitute the ban on the sale of assault weapons,'" Holder said. Based on Holder's testimony during his confirmation hearings before the Senate, those other "'changes'" presumably include prohibiting private transfers of firearms and banning most center-fire rifle ammunition as "'armor-piercing.'"
NOTE: #1 "armor-piercing" would consist of any hunting ammo and half the pistol ammo since the qualification of "armor-piercing" is if it will penetrate metal which ANY AND ALL hunting ammo will do and ANY ammo that can be used as self defense against large critters has to do it in order to kill an animal and go through the bone.
Note: #2 Obama has stated it is next on his agenda after health care and Cap and Trade.
Note: #3 This has been a way to try and take all guns away with decietful tactics and lies many times when it comes to Holder all the way back to the Clinton era even though it didn't work then they did try to to begin with and ended up with a phony assault weapon ban but Obama has proven already he could careless what the people want unlike Clinton.....!!!
SorrySOB
Didn't see where Rob reponded yet Pete, but here is a bit on the whole 2000 election sham.
"The most closely decided aspect of the case was the key question of what remedy the Court should order, in view of an Equal Protection Clause violation. Gore had argued for a new recount that would pass constitutional muster, but the Court instead chose to end the election, asserting that “the Florida Supreme Court has said that the Florida Legislature intended to obtain the safe-harbor benefits of 3 U. S. C. §5.” This last assertion by the 5–4 Bush v. Gore majority has proven very controversial"
fun gal
Neither Fox news, nor Glen Beck will be disappearing anytime soon. Mr. Murdock has too, too much money and you know what they say, "money talks!!"
Flathead Frank
Nice Frank the Country Editor. Play the Victim. What is that about? Nervousness that your extreme Randy Weaver views are are not acceptable to educated patriotic Americans? Your guys had eight years -- president and republican congress-- and you wrecked America. Got us stuck in two wars not finished and wrecked the economy. Until guys like you admit your mistakes in supporting gop policies that really hurt our country, you have no credibility. The American people in the last two elections have made clear thier disgust in your right wing views. In the 1960s southern newspaper editors railed against civil rights. Our local editor would fit well with ttis anti-progressive agenda. Hopefufully his kids won't read his anti-progress agenda. It would be like the children of the southern editors denouncing civil rights.
Wilson
Rtr, thank you for the polite response. I will watch out for any intimidation and insults. As far as I see it, though, the reinstatement of the Fairness Doctrine is a non-issue. No one has provided any proof that it is currently being pursued to reactivate it. I have searched the web myself and nothing.
Perhaps energy would be better spent on something real.
I am a member of the NRA. The monthly issue always contains a certain uneasiness about government enforced gun control. Everybody talks about it but I see no real effort to take our guns away. In fact almost every effort has been defeated. They know there would be a fight and even if they eventually won, they would lose. What I mean to say is, just because it could happen doesn't mean it will. Will us just worrying about it cause the government to do nothing?
Thanks everyone. It's late and I am an early riser.
Good night.
Pete
Still curious about...
"You didn't get mad when the Supreme Court stopped a legal recount and
appointed a President."
Maybe you can explain this tomorrow Rob?
Pete
Going to read to my kiddos...goodnight all.
rtr
There was no legislation on board for health care a year ago either and yet that was voted on this last weekend "Without the will or consent of the people" and "It has been more than denounced by the people in the polls" and yet the democrats voted for it.
Now days it is best to stop possible legislation before it gets a chance to take root like a nasty weed full of parasites.
Pete
Katorce...like I explained to Rob, things don't happen in a vacuum. When the speaker of the house and others with the power to enact legislation express the desire for legislation, I listen. Are you for or against the Fairness Doctrine? Maybe that is more telling than anything?
katorce14
Pete You missed this part from the wikipedia post you quoted
Some Democratic legislators have expressed interest in reinstituting the Fairness Doctrine although no one has introduced legislation to do so since 2005.
This whole thing is a perfect example of the right wings use of Straw men. Nothing is being proposed to change this rule, but the right wing invented this to bash the left. I love that Frank took the bait, it says everything.
The best part is that all of those who repeat this nonsense don't tell you (probably becasue they repeat a talking point rather than do any research) that they are confusing the fairness doctrine and the equal time clause
The fairness doctrine required broadcast licensees to present controversial issues of public importance, and to present such issues in a fair and balanced manner.
The equal time rule applied ONLY to political candidates.
So contrary to what Frank would like you to believe the events of 9/11 would not require equal time for the opposite side only that the news be presented fairly. The rule also
Keep in mind that broadcasters operate under a license that is granted by the government. This license means that they are protected from competition to some degree because I can not broadcast whatever I want unless I have a license. This license requires that they operate in the public interest. The fairness doctrine was designed to help assure that.
Wilson
Ms_Evans, that is a sound philosophy. The government should do its duty and nothing more. Describing that duty, there's the crux. The more duty the people see to on their own the less involved in our lives the government should be. Have we and are we seeing to our own duty? Unfortunately, most people don't. They have their hand out. And anymore, if you don't put something in it, the government takes it from you and then fills those outstretched hands. How did they get such power? Who gave them that power? Not me. But I will gladly try to take that power away from government.
rtr
Ms_Evans, Thank you for what you stated, The fact is in a couple of my past posts I was refering to your conversation with me "Without stating your addy" 3 days ago.
We are both on the opposite sides of the fence but after our conversation about gay marrige we agreed to disagree and there were no hard feelings.
"WE were both civil"
rtr
Wilson
1. rtr, why, or more suitably, how would more liberals posting make any difference if their ideas are all the same?
2. So I ask you, rtr, what is it you wish to accomplish here?
==============
1. Same ideas but with more intimidation so they can bounse insults off each other towards people they are targeting."Conservatives"...."You know the deal"
1-A. The second part of looking for or "playing the victim and wish to receive some sort of compensation" couldn't be any father from the truth since the only tears have come from the liberal side. "Look through the past colums for yourself AND / OR ask the Editor himself if I have ever complained to him"
2. I live here and enjoy Franks columns and started reading the posts way before I started posting.
Also I enjoy intellegent conversation since I am semi-retired so it is a way to pass the time..
This is off topic but I am answering your questions since you are new.
Pete
Still curious about...
"You didn't get mad when the Supreme Court stopped a legal recount and
appointed a President."
Well Rob...?
Pete
Ms. Evans...well said.
Pete
Another Sesame Street character.
Pete
Oh boy....here we go again.
Ms_Evans
This is key: while it is the duty of government to insure no opinion is restrained in the holder's attempt to convey his thoughts to potential listeners, it is not the job of the government to insure every opinion is equally heard by every participant in a discussion.
If the only way you can get someone to listen to your side of an issue is to force them to listen, then maybe you should reconsider how you’re saying it.
While you have a right to speak freely; you do not have a right to be listened to.
Wilson
rtr, why, or more suitably, how would more liberals posting make any difference if their ideas are all the same? Unless they just bombard the room with huge quantities of data but one person can do that. Sheer numbers only make a difference at the polls. If you think that it takes more thinking power to overcome the room, there will still be the same number of minds, just more mouths. I confess I just don't understand.
The second part of your post, and in a way the first part, made me think you are playing the victim and wish to receive some sort of compensation. That's probably not true but I had to say it because that was how I read it.
I take it from reading your other comments that you are a Conservative Republican. That doesn't explain the hostility in your posts though. I know many Conservative Republicans, many in my family also, but they don't get so heated in their argument. In fact, the only people I see who get heated and angry or the ones who get paid for it.
Rawhide (Great name, by the way. Rawhide, I remember Rowdy Yates, keep rollin', rollin', rollin') believes you cannot dissuade a man from his politics but I have to disagree. Cool, level-headed, and informed discussion has won more people over to common sense ways of thinking than hostility.
So I ask you, rtr, what is it you wish to accomplish here?
Pete
Still curious about...
"You didn't get mad when the Supreme Court stopped a legal recount and
appointed a President."
Pete
Wilson....welcome to the chaos...we look forward to your input. I must say, I'm waiting with baited breath to see if your avatar is a volleyball. ;-)
rtr
The good thing about socialism be exposed for what it is and regarded as the evil that it truly is allows people to get their self-esteem back and take pride in themselves and start to feel patriotism for our country again which was and is being driven away by the current administration that just pointed out there arrogance that they do not care what the people think and they will enslave us to the government whether we want it or not with Health Care..
“Polls show there is an overwhelming amount of people do NOT want government Health care”
Pete
Rawhide...Finding the humor in the situation is the best answer...I was taught that rudeness is a weak mans imitation of strength. English mother...I still have a thing for Marmite and Loose Leaf Tea...and Curry - she was a colonial until she was evacuated under the Japanese threat. I'm sure Benznd is scribbling away in his igloo about now :-)
rtr
The fact is the liberal wishy washy Republicans are history for sure.
New polls show grass roots conservatives would walk away with both the House and Senate votes and with Obama's polls of no more than 29% to 30% shows he will never make a second term if he doesn't change his ways.
rtr
Pete
If the current trends continue the only source the left will have for Government propaganda will be the government financed PBS.
====================
Funny you should bring that up, It appears to be about the only media outlet left that promotes Global Warming even though we have had a decade of Global cooling other than if you watch Obama pounding his fist on his podium with Global Warming so he can get his Cap and Trade passed in order to tax us working class even more. "And for NO other reason"
Rob123
Rawhide: "Pete: I have no illusions about not being able to dissuade someone already set in their political beliefs." Whoa! I voted for Bush, TWICE! The first time with enthusiasm, the second time hoping he had enough Political Capital to be the person he was while on the Stump in 98 and 99. What a disaster! We needed change. I changed. I understand Pete and Conservative thought, no problem. Personal Responsibility is big in my world. However, look around you.....IS IT WORKING? And "it" started way before Obama became President. We have a culture without culture. We have taken the ME to heights that destroy Nationhood. I leave the 'Why' to the Sociologists. Current Republican Conservative thought is dead in the water,,,,,,a great critic, but put them out front, and they grab what they can and high tail it to the security of their McMansion and gloat. What a waste.
rtr
Wilson
Mr. rtr greeted me with a paradox and a challenge. The Republican Party believes that all people are equal as do I but he (and pardon me if I have assumed wrongly) asserts that only conservatives would have good ideas for the country, assuming he means the US and not the woods. I dont' get the Liberal/Catnip reference. Is it necessary to outline my politics before proceeding?
=======================
What you do not understand is the intimidation from the left and their new ploy has been to clone themselves as other posters in order to make it look like there were more of them here than there really was "FACT"
I apoligize if I left you with the wrong impression, "It was not a challenge" poor atemp at humor on my part is more like it.
If you note, Rob's second post when this column first came out was to insult me prior to me even posting and his ability to coers his counter parts "Liberal buddies" into doing his dirty work with insults, and intimidation of conservativeposters that post here is admirable if you like that sort of thing.
The reality of it is 3 days ago we were "ALL" haveing VERY civil converastions for a day and a half and Rob choose to disrupt that and do everthing he could to make it UNcivil..
Pete
Still curious about...
"You didn't get mad when the Supreme Court stopped a legal recount and
appointed a President."
Pete
Rob...trends become reality....people actually talk about doing something before they do it. Right? This Hasan nut being an extreme example? Don't confuse vigilance and fear.
Pete
rtr....gasp...are you suggesting the market should decide? If the current trends continue the only source the left will have for Government propaganda will be the government financed PBS. With new technology that reaches rural areas they were meant to serve, it is time they were made to pay their way too...or for Benznd to up his contributions so he can continue to watch reruns of Prairie Home Companion while eating Lutefisk in his cozy flannel slip. What a visual huh? I think I just scarred myself....Lol.
Rawhide
Pete: I have no illusions about not being able to dissuade someone already set in their political beliefs. My mother warned me against thinking such nonsense. I know what you mean about the typical response of many new world liberals (not all). And when they don't have a good comeback, then they resort to name calling. I've bit my tongue more than once trying to keep from doing the same.
Wilson
Hello, Mr. Rob. A cordial greeting masquerading as a warning or vice versa? But thank you for both...I think. The colorful idioms you use contrast quite nicely with some of the other few posts I have read. I assume you are a university grad? Or just well-read and have a penchant for humorous metaphor?
Mr. rtr greeted me with a paradox and a challenge. The Republican Party believes that all people are equal as do I but he (and pardon me if I have assumed wrongly) asserts that only conservatives would have good ideas for the country, assuming he means the US and not the woods. I dont' get the Liberal/Catnip reference. Is it necessary to outline my politics before proceeding?
Then I guess I would have to support non-governmental solutions and private decision-making in both the social and economic dimensions. I believe in fiscal responsibility by being frugal. I don't much support the government dictating moral concerns, that falls to far to the side of theocracy. In short, less government, more personal responsibility. I am against war unless in defense of our country (US).
Now that said, is there a line I have to join? Or a flag I have to hold up?
This Fairness doctrine that Mr. Rawhide has updated us on (his update until Feb. 11, 2009) was shot down by the Senate 87 to 11 on Feb. 26 and that by a Democratic Senate. I see Mr. rtr posted something from 2008 also. Are we caught in a time warp here?
Rob123
Pete....I was looking for something substantial, like HB#####..... or SB######. I can't find anything substantial......If political theory and political scenarios scare you, then .....geez pardner, lets go camping in the big, dark woods and I'll scare the bejesus out of ya. And drag your buddy Beck with ya.
Wilson
Hello, Mr. Rob. A cordial greeting masquerading as a warning or vice versa? But thank you for both...I think. The colorful idioms you use contrast quite nicely with some of the other few posts I have read. I assume you are a university grad? Or just well-read and have a penchant for humorous metaphor?
Mr. rtr greeted me with a paradox and a challenge. The Republican Party believes that all people are equal as do I but he (and pardon me if I have assumed wrongly) asserts that only conservatives would have good ideas for the country, assuming he means the US and not the woods. I dont' get the Liberal/Catnip reference. Is it necessary to outline my politics before proceeding?
Then I guess I would have to support non-governmental solutions and private decision-making in both the social and economic dimensions. I believe in fiscal responsibility by being frugal. I don't much support the government dictating moral concerns, that falls to far to the side of theocracy. In short, less government, more personal responsibility. I am against war unless in defense of our country (US).
Now that said, is there a line I have to join? Or a flag I have to hold up?
This Fairness doctrine that Mr. Rawhide has updated us on (his update until Feb. 11, 2009) was shot down by the Senate 87 to 11 on Feb. 26 and that by a Democratic Senate. I see Mr. rtr posted something from 2008 also. Are we caught in a time warp here?
Rob123
Pete....ya got me on that one.....So, what did you think?
Pete
Rob...how long have I been on here debating you? Not a year...so how do you know what I thought back then? This one is very curious to me...care to elaborate?
"You didn't get mad when the Supreme Court stopped a legal recount and
appointed a President."
Pete
Rob says...."thanks....I read that a few days ago, WSJ, I think. A little concern, but if one follows all the 'what if's' that float through the halls of Congress, nothing would ever get done.........Hum, could be on to something?"
Rawhide....this is the typical response from Rob et al...they ask for evidence and then when faced with it they shrug their shoulders and say.......sooooooo? Bronco pulled the same stunt with the media numbers. Katforce the same with the fairness doctrine. Bottom line is they don't care about the evidence. Leftist are controlled by emotion not facts...hence you see the dramatic mood swings from them. One moment calling for civility and the next moment trying to move their "compassionate" message forward with base uncivility. Machiavellian for sure, but in their minds the ends always justify the means, and most of their policies bear this out. So, if you think facts are going to help, you're in for a big disappointment. Rob will "keep keepin' on" because in his world debate isn't about discovering the truth but about not losing face.
rtr
http://www.marketingshift.com/2008/8/fairness-doctine-my-internet-americans.cfm
Regardless of political leanings, nobody can deny the fact the Fairness Doctrine could prove to be damaging for every media involved. For example, the liberal network, Air America never attracted a significant audience to keep advertisers interested, and as a result, it was forced to pay stations for airtime. As a result, It barely kept its head above water,filed for bankruptcy. In fact, former Air America executive and host Al Franken ditched the network to run for senate. Judging from the low attendance at his last town hall meeting (1 person), maybe he should have stuck with radio.
I'm not arguing against a balanced expression of ideas, but at the end of the day, radio stations, like every other business, strive for that healthy bottom line, and ,according to Rasmussen,many Americans realize that fact,:
Rob123
Rawhide....thanks....I read that a few days ago, WSJ, I think. A little concern, but if one follows all the 'what if's' that float through the halls of Congress, nothing would ever get done.........Hum, could be on to something?
Pete:
"We had eight years of Bush and Cheney, Now you get mad!
You didn't get mad when the Supreme Court stopped a legal recount and
appointed a President.
You didn't get mad when Cheney allowed Energy company officials to dictate
energy policy.
You didn't get mad when a covert CIA operative got ousted.
You didn't get mad when the Patriot Act got passed.
You didn't get mad when we illegally invaded a country that posed no threat to us.
You didn't get mad when we spent over 600 billion(and counting) on said illegal war.
You didn't get mad when over 10 billion dollars just disappeared in Iraq .
You didn't get mad when you found out we were torturing people.
You didn't get mad when the government was illegally wiretapping Americans.
You didn't get mad when we didn't catch Bin Laden.
You didn't get mad when you saw the horrible conditions at Walter Reed.
You didn't get mad when we let a major US city drown.
You didn't get mad when we gave a 900 billion tax break to the rich.
You didn't get mad when the deficit hit the trillion dollar mark.
You finally got mad when the government decided that people in America
deserved the right to see a doctor if they are sick. Yes, illegal wars, lies, corruption, torture, stealing your tax dollars to make the rich richer, are all okay with you, but helping other Americans... oh , h$ll no ! "
Rawhide
Rob: You asked me to point out evidence that Democrats intend to enact legislation establishing a "Fairness Doctrine." I hate to get too tedious, but here's a starter:
In February 2005, U.S. Representative Louise Slaughter (Democrat of New York) and 23 co-sponsors introduced the Fairness and Accountability in Broadcasting Act (H.R. 501) in the 1st Session of the 109th Congress of 2005-7 (when Republicans held a majority of both Houses). The bill would have shortened a station's license term from eight years to four, with the requirement that a license-holder cover important issues fairly, hold local public hearings about its coverage twice a year, and document to the FCC how it was meeting its obligations. The bill was referred to committee, but progressed no further.
In the same session of Congress, Representative Maurice Hinchey (another Democrat from New York) introduced legislation "to restore the Fairness Doctrine". H.R. 3302, also known as the "Media Ownership Reform Act of 2005" or MORA, had 16 co-sponsors in Congress.
Some Democratic legislators have expressed interest in reinstituting the Fairness Doctrine, although no one has introduced legislation to do so since 2005.
In June 2007, Senator Richard Durbin (D-Illinois) said, "It’s time to reinstitute the Fairness Doctrine,” an opinion shared by his Democratic colleague, Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts.
On June 24, 2008, U.S. Representative Nancy Pelosi of San Francisco, California (who had been elected Speaker of the House in January 2007) told reporters that her fellow Democratic Representatives did not want to forbid reintroduction of the Fairness Doctrine, adding "the interest in my caucus is the reverse." When asked by John Gizzi of Human Events, "Do you personally support revival of the 'Fairness Doctrine?'", the Speaker replied "Yes."
On December 15, 2008, U.S. Representative Anna Eshoo (Democrat of California) told The Daily Post in Palo Alto, California that she thought it should also apply to cable and satellite broadcasters. “I’ll work on bringing it back. I still believe in it. It should and will affect everyone”
On February 4, 2009, Senator Debbie Stabenow (Democrat of Michigan) told radio host and WorldNetDaily columnist Bill Press, when asked whether it was time to bring back the Doctrine: “I think it's absolutely time to pass a standard. Now, whether it's called the Fairness Standard, whether it's called something else — I absolutely think it's time to be bringing accountability to the airwaves.”
When Bill Press asked if she would seek Senate hearings on such accountability in 2009, she replied: I have already had some discussions with colleagues and, you know, I feel like that's gonna happen. Yep”.
A week later, on February 11, 2009, Senator Tom Harkin (Democrat of Iowa) told Mr. Press, "...we gotta get the Fairness Doctrine back in law again." Later in response to Press's assertion that "...they are just shutting down progressive talk from one city after another," Senator Harkin responded, "Exactly, and that's why we need the … .Fairness Doctrine back."
For sources of these quotes, you can simply search "Wikipedia", et al.
Rob123
Hello, Mr. Wilson! It's a fine day for Reason in the Hope of Escaping the Dumbed Down Doldrums and Fear of losing that which they never had by certain folks who only exist inorder to react. So please, come in, wipe your feet on the rtr, make yourself at home, and tell us ur story. Some of the Conservative Members here are concerned that Fairness could cause Glenn Beck to choke up and die. Outside of that, it's pretty mundane stuff, except when the rug sneezes, but I have ignored his banality and insults for a week already. You'll see what I mean after a few posts......like a dog with worms on a white rug......
Wilson
Depends on which country.
rtr
Mr. Willson
Do I jump rite in or is there an initiation of some kind?
===========================
That depends on with side of the fence you are on, Are you a Liberal looking for Catnip or a conservative with good ideas for the country?
rtr
Rebel
Just trying to point out that not all Republicans (conservatives) feel the same way as you about the NEW health care program.
==================
I too noticed there was one traitor in the Republican party that voted for it, He too will be voted out on his next election.
Wilson
My friend told me about this room so I took a look and now I want to join in the discussion. Hello, my name is Wilson. I tried to put my picture on but it says it is too busy. Do I jump rite in or is there an initiation of some kind?
benznd
Bush and his legacy:
08 budget
•Provides $481.4 billion for the Department of Defense’s base budget—a 62-percent increase over 2001—to ensure a high level of military readiness as the Department develops capabilities to meet future threats, defends the homeland, and supports the all-volunteer force and their families;
•Supports operations in the Global War on Terror by providing an additional $93.4 billion in supplemental funds for 2007 and $141.7 billion for 2008, including funds to accelerate efforts to train and equip Iraqi and Afghan Security Forces;
The White House released budget figures yesterday indicating that the new Medicare prescription drug benefit will cost more than $1.2 trillion in the coming decade, a much higher price tag than President Bush suggested when he narrowly won passage of the law in late 2003.
Now where did this money come from?
Rebel Rouser
Just trying to point out that not all Republicans (conservatives) feel the same way as you about the NEW health care program, no more, no less. It should be Dr. Don Teatem, ha, ha. Ps he is a vet, (veteran of war for the United States of America).
rtr
Off topic but worth while.
The US standard railroad gauge (distance between the rails) is 4 feet, 8.5 inches. That's an exceedingly odd number. Why was that gauge used? Because that's the way they built them in England, and English expatriates designed the US railroads. Why did the English build them like that? Because the first rail lines were built by the same people who built the pre-railroad tramways, and that's the gauge they used. Why did 'they' use that gauge then? A: Because the people who built the tramways used the same jigs and tools that they had used for building wagons, which used that wheel spacing.
Why did the wagons have that particular odd wheel spacing? Well, if they tried to use any other spacing, the wagon wheels would break on some of the old, long distance roads in England, because that's the spacing of the wheel ruts. So who built those old rutted roads? Imperial Rome built the first long distance roads in Europe (including England ) for their legions. Those roads have been used ever since.
And the ruts in the roads? Roman war chariots formed the initial ruts, which everyone else had to match for fear of destroying their wagon wheels. Since the chariots were made for Imperial Rome, they were all alike in the matter of wheel spacing. Therefore the United States standard railroad gauge of 4 feet, 8.5 inches is derived from the original specifications for an Imperial Roman war chariot. Bureaucracies live forever.
So the next time you are handed a specification/procedure/process and wonder 'What horse's a$$ came up with this?' , you may be exactly right. Imperial Roman army chariots were made just wide enough to accommodate the rear ends of two war horses. (Two horses' asses.)
rtr
little robbie
......To rtr, like the other 5 things in his mind, it's Gospel Truth......Until something else pops up, and there is no room, so he flushes it. With great fanfare for all to witness.
===========
I knew it, I knew it, I knew it you just can't leave the Catnip alone.
rtr
Rebel
Hello, I thought I would post this letter written to Congresswoman Mary Fallin by one of her constituents (who is my best friend), a REPUBLICAN/Independent doctor
=================
You know Rebel, I too know this doctor, He is a Vet and works for Peta, His name is Dr. Don't Eatem.
Rob123
Rawhide...."Make no mistake, the object is to silence opposition voices and curtail free speech in America......" Would you point out to me where this so-called Legislation is? Does it have a Senate or House Number? Something beyond old Recovering Alcoholic and Drug Abuser Glenn Becks' Multi-Million dollar Fear Machine.....He sure is doing well? It sells.....but I think your thoughtfull enough to see it for what it is......To rtr, like the other 5 things in his mind, it's Gospel Truth......Until something else pops up, and there is no room, so he flushes it. With great fanfare for all to witness.
rtr
Pete
Katforce...this is who.
========================
This takes me back to I haven't seen so much one truthful statement when it comes to politics from the left in a months time.
They live by lies alone, No substance or truth in them and their hearts are cold as ice.
Rebel Rouser
Hello, I thought I would post this letter written to Congresswoman Mary Fallin by one of her constituents (who is my best friend), a REPUBLICAN/Independent doctor:
Dear Ms. Fallin
I am a health care provider of 40 years and have found your voting reason of NO for health care reform weak and without any true intellect of recognizing the immediate need for reform which, can also benefit the economy. The health care issue has been around since Teddy Roosevelt and still nothing has been done.
Let’s see, our country is 32nd or less in quality health care and yet we spend two to three times more money than the counties that provide the best. If I were on my own try to find health care on my own with out the benefit of a job or Medicare I would find insurance unattainable. What is wrong with this picture? I have been gainfully employed all my adult life and currently run my own small business and providing health care is out of the question, especially in this current economy; which was created by the way with our government unwilling to provide proper oversight in the financial and health care industry to keep the playing field of entrepreneurship level for the past 25 years. Only the 1% wealthy have had the advantage and obviously will not share.
It is obvious that fee for services does not work; it used to be doctor, nurse, and receptionist. Now it is doctor LVN, and staff for billing in hopes of getting paid, if there is insurance approval..
I am a moderate Republican now independent and have come to the conclusion that those opposed to health care due so out of ideology, not common sense or caring about making hard choices. At least the Democrats are making an effort while the Republicans have become the party of "NO" and use bumper sticker sentences for an excuse.
Therefore, I find your vote is a vote for the health care lobbyist not the people you represent.
Respectfully,
BadRockBilly
BadRockBilly
A democracy imposed from without is the severest form of tyranny; from the world menders.
========================
Could you please expand on this?
Sounds like taxation without representation to me which is what it was with the Vote on Obama's Death Care since the Majority of people in the USA were against it.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
RTR; It's a quote from a book I read in the early seventies that has stuck in my mind. Its about A superior race trying to make things fair in a world of inferiors that need outside supervision to rid them of their prejudice.
Rawhide
Isn't it ironic how politicians manage to find some innocent, innocuous and patriotic sounding name to attach to legislation they know is anything but innocent or patriotic. This "Fairness Doctrine" for the news media is a classic example. The Obama administration is now trying to take this to a dangerous extreme. Make no mistake, the object is to silence opposition voices and curtail free speech in America, unless of course your opinion is acceptable to the government. Remember how Democratic party leaders responded to the "tea bag" and town hall protestors by saying they were "un-American" and comparing them to Nazis.
Can even the most ardent Obama supporters or democratic party loyalists really support this kind of thinking? Who was it that said "When they came for the Jews, I did nothing, because I wasn't a Jew. When they came for the Christians I did nothing, because I wasn't a Christian". Extend that thinking a little further: When they silenced the Libertarian voices I said nothing, because I wasn't a Libertarian. When they silenced the Independents I said nothing, because I ... . knew what had happened to all the other opposition voices.
If any of you true blue Obama supporters can defend such thinking then please speak up now while the rest of us can still respond, legally.
rtr
Pete
Question: How do you drown a socialist?
You paint Obama’s face at the bottom of a pool.
===============
Are you sure it is a picture of his face, Remember little baby robbie and the bicycle stand.
Rob123
Using the Fairness Doctrine to Pete's Q and A, isn't it Ironic that we (inclusive tense)all have rebreather scuba gear, as it's our (again, inclusive tense)primary defense against your (excluse tense)doggy do-do problem.....plus, we can distinguish between images posted to a Wall and the Real Thing existing in Real Time......So a quick look see (light refracts in H2O, so one should try to get a Clear Picture), then back to the surface, and onward and upward, the robust snickers of the Right left far behind. Same-oh, same-oh..............Would you like Frys with that?
Pete
Question: How do you drown a socialist?
You paint Obama’s face at the bottom of a pool.
rtr
Start each day with a positive outlook
1. Open a new file in your computer.
2. Name it 'Barack Obama'.
3. Send it to the Recycle Bin.
4. Empty the Recycle Bin.
5. Your PC will ask you: “Do you really want to get rid of 'Barack Obama?'
6. Firmly Click 'Yes.'
7. Feel better?
GOOD! - Tomorrow we'll do Nancy Pelosi.
Pete
Katforce...this is who.
On June 24, 2008, U.S. Representative Nancy Pelosi of San Francisco, California (who had been elected Speaker of the House in January 2007) told reporters that her fellow Democratic Representatives did not want to forbid reintroduction of the Fairness Doctrine, adding "the interest in my caucus is the reverse." When asked by John Gizzi of Human Events, "Do you personally support revival of the 'Fairness Doctrine?'", the Speaker replied "Yes." [23]
On October 22, 2008, Senator Jeff Bingaman (Democrat of New Mexico) told a conservative talk radio host in Albuquerque, New Mexico:
“ I would want this station and all stations to have to present a balanced perspective and different points of view. All I’m saying is that for many, many years we operated under a Fairness Doctrine in this country, and I think the country was well-served. I think the public discussion was at a higher level and more intelligent in those days than it has become since.[24] ”
On December 15, 2008, U.S. Representative Anna Eshoo (Democrat of California) told The Daily Post in Palo Alto, California that she thought it should also apply to cable and satellite broadcasters.
“ I’ll work on bringing it back. I still believe in it. It should and will affect everyone.[25] ”
On February 4, 2009, Senator Debbie Stabenow (Democrat of Michigan) told radio host and WorldNetDaily columnist Bill Press, when asked whether it was time to bring back the Doctrine:
“ I think it's absolutely time to pass a standard. Now, whether it's called the Fairness Standard, whether it's called something else — I absolutely think it's time to be bringing accountability to the airwaves. ”
When Press asked if she would seek Senate hearings on such accountability in 2009, she replied:
“ I have already had some discussions with colleagues and, you know, I feel like that's gonna happen. Yep.[26] ”
A week later, on February 11, 2009, Senator Tom Harkin (Democrat of Iowa) told Press, "...we gotta get the Fairness Doctrine back in law again." Later in response to Press's assertion that "...they are just shutting down progressive talk from one city after another," Senator Harkin responded, "Exactly, and that's why we need the fair — that's why we need the Fairness Doctrine back." [27]
Former President Bill Clinton has also shown support for the Fairness Doctrine. During a February 13, 2009, appearance on the Mario Solis Marich radio show, Clinton said:
“ Well, you either ought to have the Fairness Doctrine or we ought to have more balance on the other side, because essentially there's always been a lot of big money to support the right wing talk shows. ”
Clinton cited the "blatant drumbeat" against the stimulus program from conservative talk radio, suggesting that it doesn't reflect economic reality.[28]
rtr
katorce14
People rely on Fox news to tell them when they should be scared (answer all the time) and what to do becasue they would rather not think for themselves. This paper has gotten no better.
========================
That is why you watch CNN is so you can get on your knees and pray to your shepard. "I get it now"
katorce14
This is the reason I try not shop at fox news advertisers, the reason I quit subscribing ot this paper and the reason I spend my advertising dollars elsewhere.
===============
Now if you would just quite posting here, OH YEAH you were just kidding like little baby robbie and you really buy the paper and support all its advertizers don't you.
Ane or just think, Maybe little baby robbie advertizes in the DIL and you are boycotting him, Oh god forbid.
katorce14
Talk about fear mongering, Frank. Who exactly is calling for the return of the fairness doctrine?
And no it would not have applied in the case of 9/11 and you know it Frank. My god you really have lost your mind.
What The Administration has said is simply that FOX is not balanced news reporting. Anyone who watches it can tell you that is true, they practice the same hate, fear and smear as this paper.
Fact is fear sells, far better than hope. Frank knows it. I choose to hope things change and to work to make that happen people like Frank choose to hide behind fear and expect the government which they purport to hate so vehemently to protect them. People rely on Fox news to tell them when they should be scared (answer all the time) and what to do becasue they would rather not think for themselves. This paper has gotten no better.
This is the reason I try not shop at fox news advertisers, the reason I quit subscribing ot this paper and the reason I spend my advertising dollars elsewhere.
Better to light a candle than to curse the dark, Frank.
naturalresources
Pete, yeah, it would be nice if we could just use an invisible electric fence to control the beasts, but the shock collar is rather entertaining lately.
rtr
The problem with little baby robbie now is that we have made so much fun of him after he through the Ghillie suit over me that he is embarassed to comment to me directly and it is just gut wrenching for him.
naturalresources
I could'nt help myself and had to sneak a peak at Fox channel last night. And who popped up in my face? Heraldo, of course; spewing his sarcasm and hatred of conservatism. His condescending views and rhetoric, most of which is outright lies, are filling the network with a healthy dose of media bias.....now there is "fair and balanced "for you. Why do you suppose we need a "Fairness Doctrine"?....So we can endure more of the same?
Old Blue.......My wise mother once taught me the saying "sticks and stones may break my bones.....but words will never hurt me." She was right of course, but your "politically correct " world does'nt allow for wisdom to prevail.
Pete
Rob...Look up irony in humor. I'm laughing...you're grumpy...and I'm the one that thinks the world stinks? ......see...Lol....irony is funny.
Rob123
Pete: " Its like a shock collar on a dog and rtr's got the control button. He pushes the button...they howl. They literally can't help themselves." And this causes the Libertarian Pete JOY? No wonder the Republican Base is in such dog do-do, and convinced the world stinks.
Woody....Thank you
Pete
Chavez to Troops: Prepare for War With Colombia
Here's a cause for all you lefties to join. You could form your own gringo corps with Sean Penn, Harry Belafonte, Rosie O'Donnell, Janeane Garofalo, Bill Mahar, Michael Moore, Danny Glover, etc...I'm sure Chavez would reward you with a couple of acres in his workers paradise and free healthcare. I here Chavez also has a nice exchange program with Iran and North Korea if that appeals to you. Ahhh....fun in the sun and a little revolutionary action...a regular adventure vacation where you get to rub shoulders with your favorite hollywood heros.
Pete
Old Blue...a few days ago you posted the most vulgar comment I've ever seen on this sight and completely "blue" your cover. :-) I'm not sure who's hand is up the billy goat but it sure isn't some 80 year old Montana feller...Lol...your character development needs some work. I hear the Cookie Monster is looking for an understudy. ;-)
Woody
Wednesday is Veteran's Day. Rob, Benzd, Nat and any other vets that I don't know about, I hope that you have a great day and that someone who appreciates your service has the where with all to look you in the eye and say "Thank You". If there is an Applebee's in the the valley they are giving free meals to any active duty or vet who shows up. Frank and rtr you are welcome to go to said Applebee's and act as door openers.
Pete
Naturalresources....."It is somewhat refreshing, though, to see Benznd, Bronco, Rob123,etc; at the mercy of rtr. They appear to be scrambling to figure out why their compass is about 5 miles off course.. "
Funny huh? Even when Rob isn't talking about rtr he's talking about rtr....see the last three posts. Lol.....At this point he's so reactionary that he can't respond to a simple request for clarification without ###**** or some combination thereof. Its like a shock collar on a dog and rtr's got the control button. He pushes the button...they howl. They literally can't help themselves.
Rob123
NaturalResources?.....er.....rtr....."It is somewhat refreshing, though, to see Benznd, Bronco, Rob123,etc; at the mercy of rtr. They appear to be scrambling to figure out why their compass is about 5 miles off course.. " We understand totally. Lead distorts magnetic North, so we use our GPS.....No big deal, if one is up to speed. Give it a try, it beats going around in circles smiling at yourSelf.
Old Blue
WEB SITE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF USE You must not do the following things: ...post material that is obscene, defamatory, threatening, harassing, abusive hateful, or embarrassing to another user of the Site or any other person or entity
rtr 8:34pm---Now go back to the pasture you can from you scum s*cking imoral leach.
rtr 10:04 am---NOTE what little baby robbies post really has in it for insults to not just to the DIL but to us people that live here in the Valley also.
To bad he doesn't post the name of his company so we can truley show him how we financially support those that despise us here in our own Valley.
He spews his Marxiam all over this comment section but would be a coward to do it in public.
rtr 1:46 pm---I was unaware there was a Kalispell near San Fran but that is about the only place I can see where you would be welcome.
rtr 8:42am---Note are very own Want-A-Be columnist little robbie starts right out with his insults of everything we stand for here in the Flathead Valley, the DIL and the goes on the personal attack saying he doesn't read "rtr's" comments any more.
The funny part of that is he states he has a business here so that relates to he is taking money from the very people he despises, buys the DIL himself which he despises and he wouldn't know what "rtr" was posting unless he was reading that too and despises his also. "I feel that puts me in good company if nothing else".
It is cowards like him that would be scared to death to stand on the street corner spewing his hatred of the Valley
Montanans, I learned long time ago to use the legal authorities to enforce the law. Before that I spent a few nights in jail. And unless they was bought and paid for or related to the lawbreaker, the laws were enforced.
I asked the other day what you got to do to break the rules around here. Seeing the Coward's contributions, I now know that "some animals are more equal than others."
There are six infractions listed in the rules above. I have just supplied six infractions of the rules above committed by the Coward.
rtr posted at 7:50 pm---faithful idiot, Sorrylittleboy, and Woodybaby, Sorry but I don't have time to play right now with the mentally handicaped
There's another.
Maybe Freedom of Speech means the rules are pure BS and you can say what you want. Evidently if you support the speaker, like the DIL evidently supports rtr, Freedom of Speech has wide margins. But if you don't support the speaker, say the Obama administration, well, you can always write a column and invoke Freedom of Speech to back you up.
Rob123
113 comments, with 32 of them rtr's peculiar form of mental masturbation learned while a gypo miner in the Silver Valley. I do hope, when his time comes, that he donates his brain to science inorder to further the studies of Lead Poisoning on Miners in the Wallace-Kellogg areas. It would explain a lot. Until then, I guess his broken record will just keep thuggin away. p.s. I didn't read a single one, little guy. Just counted them.
Rob123
Pete: "Did I mis-interpret your point? I thought you were doing a favorable comparison between the health insurance requirement and vehicle insurance requirement...." Pete, pete, Pete....You are the only Conservative Republican on this Blog who has the whole Freudian-Marxist thingy down to a twisted science. If you clear your mind, and reread what I said, you might pick up on a little frustration (non-sexual) on my part of paying for other people's inability to 1.)Pay attention 2) Have insurance for those moments they don't pay attention. And then I asked, rhetorically, how the Genius of the Senate is going to make people buy Health Insurance when they can't even make them buy Car Insurance. So Pete, steer clear of the Freudian - Marxist Republican thingy.....it's a total mind-f##k.
benznd
Old Blue, not to worry about benznd. I lived in the Valley for 9 years before moving to ND to be grampa. I have been posting since this site was established. I am a 5th generation Montanan. I appreciate your concern (-: for my wellbeing. Most all of us enjoy your posts.
benznd
OK Pedro, I know you are fast asleep, but you have EXPOSED another aspect of your personality. In reference to GM: " I think it should have been sent to bankruptcy without government intervention...let the market decide. And yes I do wonder where the stockholders were, the Board, Regulators and the Unions...(none of them took their responsibilities seriously.) Perhaps before you make such an undocumented, unfounded statement Pete, you SHOULD find out? Remember, making comments without research comes straight out of your play-book my friend.
"One of the problems in this country is that we try to mitigate any consequences for irresponsible behavior and in doing so we create an atmosphere of entitlement and immaturity. A whole segment of society is now willing to sell its soul to the Nanny State in return for "security"....not realizing that the Nanny State's interest fee is usery and when they come to collect they'll make La Cosa Nostra look like Auntie Em." Wow, one quantum leap for mankind. You go from GM bailout to La Costa Nostril without a thought of your continued operant paranoia. THEY WILL COME TO COLLECT!
SorrySOB
Been posting to the Stranger in Seattle much lately? Kind of surprising considering it is quite the "liberal" paper.
rtr
ousel1
1. Would it be on topic to say something about the history of the Fairness Doctrine? In 1986, Rupert Murdoch created the Fox Network, the "fourth network.".
2. In 1987, the FCC votes 4-0 to abolish the Fairness Doctrine. While I realize that coincidence isn't causation, isn't fair to ask which network would have the most to lose if the Fairness Doctrine were reinstated?
3. BTW, great cameo in Dilbert today, rtr.
=========================
I am not quite sure where you are coming from here.
1. History is great.
2. Lets hope you are not trying to say that a Network of any kind that has been in business for one year can manipulate the FCC " That would be ludicrous" "Talk about fear mongering".
3. Doesn't make much since to me and only appears to make it look like something little baby robbie would say to insult someone that his University of ACORN has taught him to do.
But then again little baby robbie can't see me "I'm invisable haven't you noticed" so I know you are not him....?
ousel1
Would it be on topic to say something about the history of the Fairness Doctrine? In 1986, Rupert Murdoch created the Fox Network, the "fourth network.". In 1987, the FCC votes 4-0 to abolish the Fairness Doctrine. While I realize that coincidence isn't causation, isn't fair to ask which network would have the most to lose if the Fairness Doctrine were reinstated? Other than the Disney Channel that is.
BTW, great cameo in Dilbert today, rtr.
rtr
Here is the problem I have with people cloning themselves.
First off it is an admission that you have nothing but intimidation which the Socialist / Marxists have proven over and over again that are posting here.
Then you have other people coming into the comment section thinking you might be for real which is nothing but fraud which has proven to be the MONTRA of the New Socialist Democratic Party nowdays......."ACORN ring a bell"
rtr
Old Bull
You guys are barking up the wrong tree.
=========
Maybe the wrong person with the addy but definately not the wrong tree.
You have lied about not throwing the first insult and saying you were a conservative was also fraudulent in your first post.
You are one of the liberals posting here that has never told the truth.."You are a clone end of story"."Maybe even little baby robbie since he can't admit to seeing me"..!!!
NOPE WE GOT YOU DIALED IN RIGHT OFF THE BAT.
Now go back to the pasture you can from you scum s*cking imoral leach.
Old Blue
Evening, folks. It was a task but I got through all 104 episodes of futility below. That plus the article and I'm feeling like I read me a whole book n the subject. Natural Resources, looks to me that the Bronco handed the Coward is assets but the fool is too ignorant to see it. Pete, you are a true man, after your argument about the media you were gracious enough to wish him the best. Its the civility like that holds us together without bad feelings.
Now is it the nature of the right side represented here to just dishonor and disrespect and throw insults at our President? If that is the point then how are we ever going to accomplish anything? Nobody in that position is liked by all and we can't just be opposing everything just because we didn't vote for him.
This Fairness Doctrine is not a law and it was voted against early part of the year so can somebody tell me why we got to be scared of it? If it was going up for vote I would be against it.
If the Coward is allowed to break the rules set up by the DIL just to sell copies then I also got a problem with that. It seems that "some are more equal than others" if that is the case. I guess socialism is all about equality but that don't mean equality is bad.
Why you guys pick on benzsd if he is not living here? He is still a citizen of the USA and we are talking about federal issues.
Now for this clone idea some of you seem to support. Hah! You can ask my family and I don't think any one of them would want another one of me. I got two or three generations on most of them and the gap is pretty wide at times. I have been referred to as a sorry sob at times and I have to agree but he ain't me and I ain't him. You guys are barking up the wrong tree.
naturalresources
Daily Presidential Tracking Poll
Sunday, November 08, 2009 Email to a Friend ShareThis.Advertisement
The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Sunday shows that 30% of the nation's voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as President. Forty percent (40%) Strongly Disapprove giving Obama a Presidential Approval rating of -10.
naturalresources
As usual, Frank, good column. The left is skating on thin ice with just about everything they encounter these days. Can it really be that they are so naive about the reality of the situations that Obama and his Chicago style politics has thrust this country into? Please tell me it's all a bad dream and I'll be awakened to songbirds in the window.
It is somewhat refreshing, though, to see Benznd, Bronco, Rob123,etc; at the mercy of rtr. They appear to be scrambling to figure out why their compass is about 5 miles off course..
And it is especially humorous to witness the re ermergence of Tillie and Ahzi as they must have been golfing or something for quite some time now. Well, another week passes and nothing much has changed ecxept our continuing decline in world status on just about every issue that comes up.
rtr
BadRockBilly
A democracy imposed from without is the severest form of tyranny; from the world menders.
========================
Could you please expand on this?
Sounds like taxation without representation to me which is what it was with the Vote on Obama's Death Care since the Majority of people in the USA were against it.
Pete
So long, farewell, auf wiedersehen, good night........
Pete
"You know very well Global Warming is on it's way and Benznd will be snug as a bug in a rug with his little nighty." Why didn't I think of that? I was worried for nothing...Now all he has to do is avoid the plethora of Polar Bears draw to ND by the pleasant odor of Lutefisk.
Pete
rtr...hears what we're talking about.
A Sense of Entitlement
Dr. Sanity
"In psychiatry we use the term "sense of entitlement" to describe the outrageous attitude of some of our more narcissistic clients who believe that the world "owes" them and they want to collect NOW. Patients with this type of attitude always want more. Whatever you do is never good enough for them, and they also generally show no gratitute or express any thanks--even when someone goes out of their way for them. Like the most spoiled of royalty, they merely expect that they should be the center of your world at all times."
Sound familiar?
rtr
Pete
"Peter, I do not wear a Freudian slip. Mine came from WalMart"
I hope it's flannel...you're going to need it in ND.
===============================
Now Pete that sounds like fear mongering to me, You know very well Global Warming is on it's way and Benznd will be snug as a bug in a rug with his little nighty.
rtr
Pete
"Peter, I do not wear a Freudian slip. Mine came from WalMart"
I hope it's flannel...you're going to need it in ND.
=========================
Not to worry FREE health care is on its way if he gets sick, Come to think of it how is a beet picker going to pay for that darn FREE Health Care, I see there is jail time if you don't pay for it to so Benznd will at least be able to stay warm in the winter.
rtr
By the way "I want and derseve" a FREE car from Government Motors after all those people that have paid their taxes for several years owe it to me now that my human "He is still my Messiah" took them over
I will be waiting in my house for that car that Fannie mae is holding the title to while I rent from them that has been taken over by my human Messiah.
Pete
"Peter, I do not wear a Freudian slip. Mine came from WalMart"
I hope it's flannel...you're going to need it in ND.
rtr
Pete
not realizing that the Nanny State's interest fee is usery and when they come to collect they'll make La Cosa Nostra look like Auntie Em.
============================
Now Pete, Are you really telling me that the $3,700.00 fine for the average person if they don't buy health care could be for real even though it is FREE health care?
If I were to think about this in an intellegant manor that doesn't sound like free health care and only sounds like wealth re-distrabution with the government taking their cut off the top.
You are starting to p*ss me off, First you tell me Obama is human and now this.
Pete
Bronco....I hope you have a great time with your family.
Pete
Prevaricator....hey Benznd a big word and one that doesn't need an ***** Progress.
Pete
Rob....about GM...I think it should have been sent to bankruptcy without government intervention...let the market decide. And yes I do wonder where the stockholders were, the Board, Regulators and the Unions...none of them took their responsibilities seriously. One of the problems in this country is that we try to mitigate any consequences for irresponsible behavior and in doing so we create an atmosphere of entitlement and immaturity. A whole segment of society is now willing to sell its soul to the Nanny State in return for "security"....not realizing that the Nanny State's interest fee is usery and when they come to collect they'll make La Cosa Nostra look like Auntie Em.
rtr
Bronco, We won't miss you since you never have anything to add that is on topic or even close to it and like I stated you have never posted even one thing that was truthful.
benznd
Peter, I do not wear a Freudian slip. Mine came from WalMart
benznd
Peter: "just remember this lesson and don't spew "facts" that don't stand up to scrutiny..." Now that is funny. Keep em comen. Just EXPOSED another trait.
Prevaricator. Only FLASH away from the webcam as a curious person may be watchen......
BadRockBilly
A democracy imposed from without is the severest form of tyranny; from the world menders.
Bronco
OK, kids, I got a plane to catch. Had a good time with rtr and am giving him free rein to talk behind my back and insult me till I get back online maybe later this week.
Pete, I reported numbers. I explained again to you that I reported numbers. I didn't say the numbers were pointless, only that it was pointless for us to go on and on. You misquote me when you think you can manipulate the discussion without challenge, and then when caught in your little game, blah, blah, blah. Maybe you should just stick with the gratuitous comments...you seem more suited to that style of dialogue than factual debate. If you want to talk policy with the grown-ups, I'll be waiting...just remember this lesson and don't spew "facts" that don't stand up to scrutiny...this isn't one of Palin's speeches that make no sense even to her. Hey, Pete, maybe rtr really is your clone.
I am off to the cabin for ten days of whitetail hunting with my brothers and father. I wish the best to all of you and will miss engaging in dialog with all who engage in dialog.
Good column this week, Frank. I try not to be afraid of things until they take on more of a solid shape. But who's to say when the canary is suffocating when the coal mine is dark? Perhaps if we all had night-vision goggles...
Pete
Rob said...."I haven't seen any Health Plan to Support yet. As for "requires", in 32 years of driving trucks around Montana and the great NorthWest, 3 times the dudes that ran into one of my trucks ACTUALLY HAD insurance. The other times......all fender benders of the $500.00 to $3,500.00 type, and with my $5,000.00 deductable,...... out of my pocket with the option to attach wages.........And it's the Law to have it......."
Did I mis-interpret your point? I thought you were doing a favorable comparison between the health insurance requirement and vehicle insurance requirement, and I was pointing out that I don't believe that comparison works, as no one is forced to own a vehicle or a vehicle that costs a certain amount to insure.
Pete
Benznd says, ".... I have been searching and asking for years for Pete to EXPOSE himself"
Your Freudian slip is showing, and its kind of creepy.
rtr
Hey Bronco, Can you please explain the right of the Kenyan to take away our Medicare to incorperate it into his Death Care since we have all paid into it and now he wants to steal it from us and distribute it to people that have never paid a dime into it and why it is that he thinks he can take the Medicare Advantage plan and completely do away with that which means Death Care for the elderly.
Please be truthful and leave out the fear mongering, Just stick to the facts please.
rtr
Bronco
Fox is not a news station, it is all opinion.
=========================
You know Bronco I watched the ballon that did not have the kid in it that flew across colorado on Fox since they aired it first and now I find out it was only an opinion that the ballon was in the air.
Oh and I watched the socialist democratic stooges vote in the first phase of Obama Death Bill, Thank you Bronco for pointing out that was only an opinion, I was afraid it might have been for real.
Pete
Bronco....Oh, I see....you quote the numbers when you think you can manipulate them without challenge, and then when caught in your little game, the numbers are suddenly "pointless"? Maybe you should just stick with the gratuitous comments to rtr...you seem more suited to that style of dialogue than factual debate. If you want to talk policy with the grown-ups, I'll be waiting...just remember this lesson and don't spew "facts" that don't stand up to scrutiny...this isn't one of Obama's scripted townhall meetings where teleprompters and canned answers are good enough.
Bronco
You nailed it, rtr. Most of Americans got tricked into voting for a half-white black man from Africa and he's going to further convince the other elected lawmakers to shut down Medicare (health care for elderly), which is paid for by our taxes, and then provide health care for the elderly, to be paid for by our taxes. Only this time he has formed Death Panels to kill old people, especially old white people. My mother gave birth to ten kids (one killed at age three), she raised nine children and never paid a dime into social security or medicare or anything. B. Hussein O. has written her a letter that her time is almost up but that if she embraces Islam he may reconsider. Dammit! We had everyone fooled but you saw right through it! RTR AKBAR! Please insult my mother, oh, please...she's catholic. 77 yrs. old. Too bad she's not a widow, huh. You could have some fun with that.
Rob123
Pete: " Nobody forces you to have a vehicle that you must insure." What? I have no idea how that fits into what was being said?
And what should they have done with G.M.? Old fashioned Hard Ball and let it collapse, with all the part suppliers and dealerships, etc., down the tube? Private Equity and Hedge Funds weren't going to touch the pig. I really don't know the best thing that could have been done, but it hadn't made money selling cars for a decade. Ya got to wonder where the Stock Holders and Board of Directors and even Gov't Regulators where?
curious
Do not take a nap on Sunday afternoon, you will find when you wake up you are now a clone. The body snatchers are among us. I will be much better now, I will conform.
rtr
Bronco
Fox is not a news station.
======================
Here I have been listening to Fox News for the best information availible about the soldiers being killed by the home grown Muslim terrorist.
Now I learn it is not a news station, "Bronco,,,,You are unbelieveable".
Bronco
Pete, I compared a reported viewer number for the number one broadcast news station (NBC) and compared it to the numbers reported by the number one cable news network (Fox News). We could go on and on but it's pointless since Fox is not a news station; it is all opinion.
Here is a report on that fact ( and it's funny) got 11 minutes?:
http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/253737/thu-october-29-2009-wanda-sykes
Here is last night's Glenn Beck episode, very good:
http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/254889/thu-november-5-2009-susan-rice
rtr
Hey benznd, Can you please explain the right of the Kenyan to take away our Medicare to incorperate it into his Death Care since we have all paid into it and now he wants to steal it from us and distribute it to people that have never paid a dime into it and why it is that he thinks he can take the Medicare Advantage plan and completely do away with that which means Death Care for the elderly.
Please be truthful and leave out the fear mongering, Just stick to the facts please.
Yep I can see why you HAVE to ignor my posts since you are incapible of telling the truth or answering honest questions....Yep very understandable.
Pete
Rob...having a car is a privilege not a "right".....although I'm sure its not too far off the leftist radar...maybe a GM vehicle for every person over 18?. Nobody forces you to have a vehicle that you must insure.
Pete
Rob...isn't it the health plan that you support that "requires" insurance at the threat of fines and jail time? Now, whose in bed with insurance?
Pete
Bronco, I'm reposting this in case you missed it in your "dialogue" with rtr.
Bronco...Total Viewers: NBC: 8,500,000 / ABC: 7,950,000 / CBS: 5,880,000 for the week of October 26.
And cable.
3PM-12AM
FNC: 3,039,000 in P2+ (837,000 in 25-54)
CNN: 1,576,000 in P2+ (471,000 in 25-54)
MSNBC: 820,000 in P2+ (248,000 in 25-54)
HLN: 428,000 in P2+ (177,000 in 25-54
I'm sure everyone realized Bronco only added one Broadcast Network...NBC, and as we all know there are three.
rtr
Yep, Pete was right my second name should be Catnip.
Now that was funny and still true unlike you Bronco, Don't give up your day job to be comedian or just like little baby robbie thinking he is an Editor or you would both go broke.
rtr
Bronco
To bad he doesn't post the name of his company so we can truley show him how we financially support those that despise us here in our own Valley.
(rtr wants to know Rob's business address and then he threatens him)
==========================
.Note the word "financially support" “Not a threat” which was posted after his continuous insults about the people of the Flathead Valley that support his business.
I stand by it, Let see him stand on the corner at Norm’s News and spew his Marxisist HATRED for America and see where that would get either Him or You for that matter.
By the way while you are on that street corner at Norm's news you mihjt want to brag up the Muslim terrorists like you do here also.
If he was any kind of a man at all he would apologize for all the foul things he has said about us citizens that live here and support his business if he even has one which is doubtful since he is just like you always looking for government handouts.
The only one being made a fool of here is You, Note Bronco even the ladies here are making you look like 2 cents waiting for change, And believe me I am getting heck of a kick out of it.
Bronco
Pete is rtr's clone...no, wait...Rawhide is rtr's clone...no, wait...naturalresources is rtr's clone...no, wait...it was pointed out by others that rtr is Pete's clone...no, wait...it was pointed out by others that rtr is curious' clone...no, wait...Jack is rtr's clone...no, wait...rtr is Jack's clone...no, wait...rtr is rtr's clone!
It's spreading! Quick, Mr. President, whip up some R1T1R1 vaccines! Only 308 million doses. (Old Blue was off by 17 million) I'll pick it up next week.
benznd
Rob, I do not read garbage either. And Woody, come back to us! This bungplug is beneath you bro.
benznd
curious, thanks for the correction? I assume that you have had an opportunity to write your own thesis? Perhaps you have written a term paper, regardless, when one uses quotation marks then references the quote, it's considered accurate. Think so? Rolling Stone has been around for "several" years. It remains a source of entertainment for sure. That is bad? I consider myself to be somewhat literate. I consider myself to be capable of researching accuracy of information. I do appreciate your guidance. I think we can trust each other. I will be here to offer you any assistance you may require. Again, thanks
Bronco
rtr says: More twisted lies from you, I never once ask for Rob's address.
right after rtr said: NOTE what little baby robbies post really has in it for insults to not just to the DIL but to us people that live here in the Valley also.
To bad he doesn't post the name of his company so we can truley show him how we financially support those that despise us here in our own Valley.
(rtr wants to know Rob's business address and then he threatens him)
Then rtr said: Yes indeed I am representative of the Valley.
(Wow. Now he insults about 50,000 people)
rtr says: As for your clone "Old Bull" it was pointed out by others that it was a fraud just like you and your lies.
after rtr stated yesterday: the only one really stupid enough to make threats like Old Blue is SorrySOB.
Dude, take your chems. We are all laughing at you, except those who want to kick your behind. How's that working out for you?
Old Blue owns you, rtr. He backed you down then called you a coward.
rtr
curious
David I seriously dont think the intent is fear mongering. If you are so easily disturbed, you should probably stick to the Sunday funnies.
================================
That target is getting bigger all the time, But I like it........{-:
curious
benznd, in mixed groups we should not encourage people to expose themselves. Not a good visual.
benznd
Pete: "It's not just about what the FCC can do, but what it could do under new legislation, and as we have seen with other ploys, the left is quite adept at turning many innocuous regulations from their original intent and using them as hammers to further their social engineering agenda."
OK, thank you Pete. We now see one of your beliefs. Just a teenie bit of paranoia ya think? Would you also be a believer in chemtrails?
I realize this post comes a bit down the trail of when Pete posted his thesis title, yet I have been searching and asking for years for Pete to EXPOSE himself.
curious
rtr, to rob re silver platter, I would have probably stated it a little less pointed, but it carries my sentiment.
It appears we have dissenting views on Franks column. I guess they don't understand the object is to encourage thought and discussion. Just as the news we hear daily. David I seriously dont think the intent is fear mongering. If you are so easily disturbed, you should probably stick to the Sunday funnies.
rtr
Bronco
If you are representative of Flathead Valley citizens...I guess I've been visiting the wrong Kalispell.
=====================
Yes indeed I am representative of the Valley, If not the DIL would not be a successful news paper now would it since you bash it all the time and the people that live here..
I would say that is close to the truth with wrong Kalispell, I was unaware there was a Kalispell near San Fran but that is about the only place I can see where you would be welcome.
rtr
Bronco
Funny how you want Rob's address
==============
More twisted lies from you, I never once ask for Rob's address.
As for your clone "Old Bull" it was pointed out by others that it was a fraud just like you and your lies.
Well you still haven't told the truth, Keep trying some day you just might even get close to the truth you never know.
Bronco
And by the way, rtr, I extended a welcome to some folks we had not heard from in weeks. You insulted me for being well-mannered and considerate. When you welcome Jack a couple weeks back, did anyone insult you? If you are representative of Flathead Valley citizens...I guess I've been visiting the wrong Kalispell.
Bronco
rtr, you possess neither the courage nor the stupidity to do something of the sort. You actually think people would tolerate being called liars and cowards in public? You need to give Old Blue your address like he asked for last week when you insulted him for no reason at all other than he had a different opinion on an issue. An old man in his 80's backed you down. We all laughed at that. How is that working out for you?
Funny how you want Rob's address but are too small and afraid to give out yours.
Stay on topic this week and try to keep your special contributions down to 50 pages or so. Last week you posted about 110. How special.
rtr
Little baby robbie
Fixed network can only throw out fear for the destruction of the American Way of Life if anything changes, as businesses collapse and people fall through the holes UNDER THE PRESENT system. What a whacko arguement......
==========================
Explain how it is that the Kenyan is alowed to destroy Midecare that we have all paid into "WHICH IS FACT" not your fiction.
EXPLAIN IT...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! "Mister whacko"
Woody
Hey Donald, There is a sale at KMart.
rtr
Rob
I have no problem with people thinking behind what is being fed to them on a silver platter.
========================
So would that be like you lapping up the platter of liberalism from CNN and the likes because you don't have to think since it is comfortable for you.
That way you can sit in the field waiting for your shepard to come along and guide you to the trough....Baaa, Baaa, Baaa
That way you could also be quailifed for the Nobel Peace Prize because you would be out-standing-in-your-field.
DavidS
Wow, our little country editor's paranoia is growing by leaps and bounds. He sees as a great threat Mr. Van Jones who is no longer a member of the Obama administration. He is horrified that decent people have the gall to criticize Fox News and its right wing commentators where he apparently gets most of his own news as well. One thing is certain, this great government campaign to intimidate the media in the name of fairness ...... horrors.... fairness.... a totally alien concept..... will never touch this little rural newspaper editor. His rantings are too insignificant to be of concern to the government.
Rob123
"What a whacko arguement......" That comment was not directed at you, but rather the whole system, L and R, concerning health Care.
Rob123
I haven't seen any Health Plan to Support yet. As for "requires", in 32 years of driving trucks around Montana and the great NorthWest, 3 times the dudes that ran into one of my trucks ACTUALLY HAD insurance. The other times......all fender benders of the $500.00 to $3,500.00 type, and with my $5,000.00 deductable,...... out of my pocket with the option to attach wages.........And it's the Law to have it....... How do you think the genius of the U.S.Senate will get this "requires" through on Health? Without some changes of substance, including the repeal of the Anti-Trust Exemption for Big Insurance and the bleeding of Cash from uninsured ER visits and the b#lls to reduce medical from 17% of GNP to a level enjoyed by other Industrialized Nations, that also have higher life expectancies while paying 10% of GNP? And Fixed network can only throw out fear for the destruction of the American Way of Life if anything changes, as businesses collapse and people fall through the holes UNDER THE PRESENT system. What a whacko arguement......
curious
Benznd, Actually that particular article never in any way scared me about the health care. This is someones opinion on what could have caused this fear. But only an opinion.
Doesn't have anything to do about what they could be taking away. Take over. It is more the Trillions of dollars in an out of balance budget that won't go away, even if they continue to print money. It is the government leving funds (taxing) without due course. They could have done alot more with expansion of Medicaid to support those uninsured. Regulated intrastate commerce with the insurance companies. The Progressive's want to OWN it. This could be managed at the State levels. It is the government regulating that I have to have health care, and will pay for those that don't.
If you make $15/hr, How much of that can you give away to pay for this and and the repayment of the defict, where it still makes sense to work? Unemployment pays somewhere around $9.50/hr. When does it make sense to work then except for personal pride? If no one works, who will pay it back. If you make $100,000/year, how much tax burden could you bear, without losing your home. Then renting it back from Fannie Mae.
I don't think Luntz's article is any more than an opinion, for goodness sake it is the Rolling Stones. Isn't that entertainment?
rtr
Bronco
This is and has been the level of discussion we have come to expect from rtr and we are once again not let down.
Thank you again, rtr, for being so special...they should have an Olympics for people like you.
=========================
You are welcome, Now try telling the truth for once and you too can join the human race.
When dealing with children they need to be treated like children. "That would be you"
If and or when you grow up and start posting the truth then things we change but not until then.
By the way I have no problem sitting in a resteraunt and talking like I am here with people listening in......."How about you with spewing your HATRED of America sticking up for Muslims and advocating Marxism" "How is that working out for you".
rtr
Pete
I'm sure everyone realized Bronco only added one Broadcast Network...NBC, and as we all know there are three.
======================
Like I pointed out I have not seen one truthful statement come from the left here yet in over a month and the closet thing I have seen to them telling the truth always has deciet in it "Twisted facts, Ommisions you name it".
Bronco
A Special thanks to rtr and his special contributions today. We have discovered that anyone who has different beliefs, ideas, or perspectives than him "spews HATRED for America 24/7," "is still howling and calling to the coyotes," is "close minded and follows Marxist views," are "cowards," "have a high opinion of himself," are "socialist sheep," who "can't stand on their own two feet and think for themselves," "really has in it for insults to not just to the DIL but to us people that live here in the Valley also," and "spews his Marxiam all over this comment section but would be a coward to do it in public."
This is and has been the level of discussion we have come to expect from rtr and we are once again not let down.
Thank you again, rtr, for being so special...they should have an Olympics for people like you.
rtr
Hey benznd, Can you please explain the right of the Kenyan to take away our Medicare to incorperate it into his Death Care since we have all paid into it and now he wants to steal it from us and distribute it to people that have never paid a dime into it and why it is that he thinks he can take the Medicare Advantage plan and completely do away with that which means Death Care for the elderly.
Please be truthful and leave out the fear mongering, Just stick to the facts please.
Rob123
curious: " It is unfortunate that almost all newscasting is slanted. Though I prefer the conservative slant." That is fair and reasonable. I have no problem with people thinking behind what is being fed to them on a silver platter.
Pete
Rob...isn't it the health plan that you support that "requires" insurance at the threat of fines and jail time? Now, whose in bed with insurance?
Pete
Total Viewers: NBC: 8,500,000 / ABC: 7,950,000 / CBS: 5,880,000 for the week of October 26.
And cable.
3PM-12AM
FNC: 3,039,000 in P2+ (837,000 in 25-54)
CNN: 1,576,000 in P2+ (471,000 in 25-54)
MSNBC: 820,000 in P2+ (248,000 in 25-54)
HLN: 428,000 in P2+ (177,000 in 25-54
I'm sure everyone realized Bronco only added one Broadcast Network...NBC, and as we all know there are three.
curious
Correction MBC = ABC, don't want you to think we have even more liberal news stations.
benznd
We are talking abot "Fairness Doctrine" and Frank brought up free speech and fairness. Here is a real example of free speech and fairness.
(Rolling Stone) "The campaign to mobilize the town-hall mobs began with a script written by the right's foremost fearmonger, Frank Luntz. Luntz rose to fame in 1994 as pollster for Newt Gingrich's Contract With America, and crafted the Republican playbook on global warming. In a May memo, Luntz outlined a battle plan for conservatives to block what he branded the "Washington takeover" of health care — the most terrifying buzz words conjured up in his polls and focus groups.
The logic of the language is simple, Luntz writes: "Takeovers are like coups — they both lead to dictators and a loss of freedom." For a third of all Americans, he adds, the top worry about health care reform is "being denied a procedure or medication because a Washington bureaucrat says no." Luntz concludes by telling Republicans how best to play the fear card. "It is essential that 'deny' and 'denial' enter the conservative lexicon immediately," he writes, "because it is at the core of what scares Americans most about a government takeover of health care."
curious
Bronco, Mainstay Media, MBC, NBC, CBS The majority of the news stations out there.
And Rob, you can't tell me that they report unbiased. All news reporting agencies have an agenda. But the Mainstay's agenda is either placation or sensationalism. They do very little to bring all the news; if, it could in any way cast shadows on our new leader or the social platforms of his followers.
I watch the mainstay nightly news for local events. And FOX if I want to get a broader political picture. It is unfortunate that almost all newscasting is slanted. Though I prefer the conservative slant.
rtr
You know what the beauty of you liberals is?
Almost everything you have can be pointed out as an out right lie “With tons of proof” or pointed out as being an agenda to destroy America “With tons of proof” as to the way our founding fathers intended America to be.
rtr
HISTORY OF THE WORLD IN THREE PARAGRAPHS
Over five thousand years ago, Moses said to the children of Israel pick up your shovel, mount your asses and camels, and I will lead you to the Promised Land.
Nearly 75 years ago, Roosevelt said, Lay down your shovels, sit on your asses, and light up a camel, this is the Promised Land.
Now Obama has stolen your shovel, taxed your asses, raised the price of camels, and mortgaged the Promised Land.
rtr
Benznd
Great 2cents column this week Rob, Tillie, Ahzi, SorrySOB, and Bronco. You really nailed it. Can't wait for those ants to come stormen out the hive, or hill, or bark. You got it so right. Keep on keepen on.
================
I see North Dakota is stiil howling and calling in the coyotes with the news of Obama being pronounced human.
Rob123
"left is quite adept at turning many innocuous regulations from their original intent" Gee Pete, sounds like the LEFT has a monopoly? Maybe when the Anti-Trust Lawyers finish with Big Insurance, they can meander over from Right Field and check out the bums in Left Field? Just whisper in their ear "Psst, when your through with my buddies, go check out those bums." I'll support you on THAT one.
rtr
Rob
my problem with Fox is that they can't report a story without sticking in their particular brand of editorializing. Sometimes it's obvious, sometimes subtle, but always pernicious.....And 24/7. It's a free country, they can do it. but they should expect some shots over there bow, especially from the objects of their 24/7 ridicule
====================
You mean, Unlike the rest of the liberal media that spews HATRED for America 24/7 right?
Pete
Rob says: "curious....my problem with Fox is that they can't report a story without sticking in their particular brand of editorializing. Sometimes it's obvious, sometimes subtle, but always pernicious.....And 24/7" No Rob...the problem is that you have grown used to eating the same old diet that the liberal media has been feeding you for the last fifty years. Like an old hound that's been raised on bad dog food you've finally been offered some food with substance and it's messing with your disposition. You are in the bellyache, gas and copious amounts of cr*p stage right now...but give the new diet time and you'll feel much better.
Bronco
Pete, I expected your last post. But, think man, if FCC had rules governing cable programming content then it would be relevant to the debate. You saying simply that it does govern cable somewhat implies that the FCC controls content. I merely explained what I perceived to be a misleading statement. Misleading statements can be facts but facts taken out of context can be used to manipulate minds, like some mainstream CABLE media do.
And you are correct. I did ignore broadcast news. Broadcast News ratings says NBC News gets about 7 million viewers a night and enjoys the no.1 rating.
Fox reports this to Cable News: Monday - 10-26-09 --
O'Reilly - 3,624,000 Total Viewers
Hannity - 2,306,000
Beck - 2,592,000
That's over 8 million viewers. Sorry if I mislead anyone by omitting what now seems to be irrelevant facts.
Pete
It's not just about what the FCC can do, but what it could do under new legislation, and as we have seen with other ploys, the left is quite adept at turning many innocuous regulations from their original intent and using them as hammers to further their social engineering agenda.
Rob123
thanks benznd......by the way, I haven't read any of rtr's stuff for awhile. If he decides to join the Human Race, tell me, and I'll take a peek......
Pete
Bronco...No, don't you mislead. You compare FoxNews with other cable news sources and completely ignore the broadcast media. I simply referenced the FCC website that anyone...including you obviously...can access. And yes I answered Ahzis question...."And here I thought the FCC only governed broadcast tv, not cable. Can anyone enlighten me?"
Bronco...you were given the facts, but you are obviously still working on the enlightenment.
benznd
Great 2cents column this week Rob, Tillie, Ahzi, SorrySOB, and Bronco. You really nailed it. Can't wait for those ants to come stormen out the hive, or hill, or bark. You got it so right. Keep on keepen on.
Bronco
Pete, don't mis lead us.
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/csgen.html
Here are the FCC's jurisdiction over cable. Programming content control is minimal and consists of this:
Personal Attacks
When an attack is made upon the honesty, character, integrity, or like personal qualities of an identified person or group during origination cablecasting concerning controversial issues of public importance, the cable system must give the following to the person or group attacked within one week: (1) notification and identification of the cablecast, (2) a script, tape or accurate summary of the attack, and (3) an offer of a reasonable opportunity to respond over the cable facilities. The rule exempts attacks by political candidates and their associates on other candidates, including attacks that occur during "uses" by candidates such as attacks made during bona fide newscasts, bona fide news interviews and on-the-spot coverage of bona fide news events; and attacks on foreign groups or foreign public figures.
Basically the FCC regulates rates, franchise standards, signal carriage, network program nonduplication and syndicated program exclusivity, nonbroadcast or cablecasting services, cross-ownership, equal employment opportunity, and technical standards.
Bronco
curious, you stated: It would appear that Rob only has eyes for mainstay media.
From Broadcasting and Cable News: Fox News Channel finished February up 24% in total day (Monday-Sunday) and 21% in primetime (Monday-Friday) compared to Feb. 2008.
FNC has been the top rated cable news network for 86 consecutive months.
CNN was 15th and MSNBC was 23rd. In primetime (M-F), FNC averaged 2.8 million viewers. CNN averaged 1.3 million total viewers and MSNBC averaged 1.1 million viewers.
OK, curious, could you please define "mainstay media" for us? Since Fox News has over twice the viewers of CNN and MSNBC combined, and they have been no. 1 for 86 months in a row, don't they qualify for that coveted title? I have to laugh when the Fox News pundits express outrage over the "mainstream media." They even hate themselves!
Rob123
curious....my problem with Fox is that they can't report a story without sticking in their particular brand of editorializing. Sometimes it's obvious, sometimes subtle, but always pernicious.....And 24/7. It's a free country, they can do it. but they should expect some shots over there bow, especially from the objects of their 24/7 ridicule. And they should own up to the fact that they have created a whole class of watchers who no longer know how to operate in a climate of debate.....Anything that is a little uncomfortable within their cozy mindset is met with smirks, rolled back eyes, and an onslot of cynical cuts, as if that is normal discourse since anything outside the ideology will bring an end to Freedom-America-Family.....Everything is fragile and Black & White....... Even Frank voted for Al Gore in 2000.....In his new role as Pied Piper, only he knows how impressed he is with the followers he has recruited. Ah, the agony of the professional wordsmith. But over 500 response hits on his editorial from last week.......That's worth a "Well Done" from Corp Hdq.....Content doesn't matter to the bottom line, it's the mouse hits. "Are Ya Gettin IT?"
rtr
curious
It would appear that Rob only has eyes for mainstay media, not able to view both sides. rtr on the other had appears to be a little more able to try to see both sides, then reject the left.
========================
I think that says it all seeing as how I have stated I have watched CNN and have even posted articles from the lefts favorate paper the Huffington News instead of being closed minded and following Marxist views only like the liberals posting here.
By the way "curious" have you got a chance to read through Bronco's comments from any past articles since he has the high opinion of himself with being such a really nice guy. "It appears by his welcoming the ladies that he now thinks he is a ladies man too" "Last time I checked however most women don't like men that act like socialist sheep and like men that can stand on their own two feet and think for themselves and that wouldn't be the guys on the left that are posting here.".
Pete
Ahzi...fromt the FCC websight.
About the FCC
The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) is an independent United States government agency. The FCC was established by the Communications Act of 1934 and is charged with regulating interstate and international communications by radio, television, wire, satellite and cable. The FCC's jurisdiction covers the 50 states, the District of Columbia, and U.S. possessions.
Pete
curious...you are right about "going into the light". I have expressed to the left on here many times that they demonstrate an admirable amount of faith....sadly mis-directed toward a nanny state; a nanny state that they seem convinced will re-create an edenic paradise. Unfortunately history is replete with examples of this faith's reward being the complete destruction of freedom.
rtr
Rob
I think instead of being worried about "fairness", a little worry should be directed at "Intellectual Content". Remember, newspapers that write above the 6th grade reading level are niche papers, and editorials written above 11th grade reading levels are considered Heady Stuff,
=======================
I guess it is like I stated Bronco you can't understand what you read, NOTE what little baby robbies post really has in it for insults to not just to the DIL but to us people that live here in the Valley also.
To bad he doesn't post the name of his company so we can truley show him how we financially support those that despise us here in our own Valley.
He spews his Marxiam all over this comment section but would be a coward to do it in public.
Rob123
""I'm with you on this one, Frank."" I really am.....for different reasons maybe, but geez, even Frank understands that. Unlike some of his pinhead followers, Frank is actually conscious of what he is doing. Do I see a need to checkmate the 4th Estate? Absolutely not! However, since the 4th Estate not only defines the political landscape, but more and more creates it, causing the Legislatures to react to it, one can seriously ask: "Who is in charge of this Animal Farm?"
curious
Bronco, I am having a little difficulty understanding who your attack is focused on when you discuss uneducated illiterates. Rob or rtr. It would appear that Rob only has eyes for mainstay media, not able to view both sides. rtr on the other had appears to be a little more able to try to see both sides, then reject the left. Is this why you all argue?
ahzi
I see Frank got his weekly assignment from the Heritage Foundation, complete with talking points.
And here I thought the FCC only governed broadcast tv, not cable. Can anyone enlighten me?
Bronco
rtr says:
I completely agree with “odecindy” You seem to think you are of higher intellect but show no proof of it here, unfortunately.
Wow.
In the same post rtr says: Note are very own Want-A-Be columnist little robbie starts right out with his insults of everything we stand for here in the Flathead Valley.
Now let me quote Rob's insult to everything we stand for here in the Flathead Valley:
"I'm with you on this one, Frank."
To me rtr says: Appears you are listening even if you can't understand it.
Those uneducated illiterates I was referring to in my previous post? Guess we found their mascot. Now who was it that quoted Forrest Gump and aimed it at me? Indeed...'stupid is as stupid does.'
Pete
odecindy...Wow...only took you two posts to nail Rob's M.O. and you were dead on. Lol...just wait...you're about to be called a "hater".
curious
Frank it is a good article.
Not everything our government does has a constitutional base. That includes the House health care bill that was passes through the house last night. The Government is of the impression that they know what is good for us, and they don't need the American people to have alternate input on their actions. So squelch, any communication that would highlight the government and the president in a negative light. In order for them to have the control, we need to be turned into mindless sheep that work, and give all our money to the good of all. That is the humanitarian thing to do after all.
In an article in the tricities.com on "Tea party proponent claims constitutional questions with health care reform" It shows the following violations to the amendments of the constitution;
Smith said several amendments to the U.S. Constitution would be violated by the legislation. Those amendments and his reasons include:
* The First Amendment: The legislation would compel senior citizens to discuss end-of-life matters, taking over an area long held to be the domain of religious leaders and infringing on free speech.
* The Fourth and Fifth Amendments: The legislation allows the seizure of money and records without due process.
* The Ninth and 10th Amendments: Congress does not have the power to impose mandatory health insurance; only individual states have that right, Smith said.
* The 14th Amendment: The legislation discriminates between residents of different states and against those who do not belong to labor unions.
* The 16th Amendment: Developing a national insurance plan is a form of social engineering – not the simple revenue-raising purpose of taxation.
This information would not be available on Rob's new sources because it looks like he is of simple mind, and uses the mainstay platform of the progressives. No neede to buck the system. It is easier to just go into the light.
Woody
Frank, are you censoring now?
Woody
I see Donald the coward is back. I sent you an inspiring story. Man up, enlist and DO something for your country besides whine.
Pete
Frank is absolutely correct. What has to be watched is the slight of hand of the extreme left. While we keep an eye on the fairness doctrine they were attempting to co-opt the National Endowment for the Arts into a propaganda wing of the Democrat/Government syndicate. Next, they may use the Commerce Clause, or the Media Ownership Reform Act or any other tool that will produce the social engineering effects they desire. Similar to the way they have used Global Warming as a vehicle to move forward an ideological agenda. It is best to remember that Global Warming is the means to an end for these people. This is why you see the blatant hypocrisy evident in the major proponents of Global Warming. If Al Gore really believed Global Warming was they threat he claims, wouldn't his carbon footprint be a little smaller than the state of Texas? We may win the Global Warming argument only to find that they have quietly switched vehicles and have begun to use the Overpopulation gambit as the next tool in their box of horrors. For this reason it is important to engage these people in debate, watch the trends that develop, and actually go to the sources they cite, so you know what is coming and are prepared to counter their arguments. I am thankful to the DIL for providing a forum where it is possible to accomplish all of this.
rtr
Bronco
Glenn Beck seems to think that Mark Lloyd, the FCC Chief Diversity Officer, can overrule the US senate. Hardly. If you buy into that, I got a bridge to sell you.
==================
Appears you are listening even if you can't understand it.
rtr
Hey SorrySOB, I hate to inform you but it is the educated that watch Fox News and the undeucated like you that watch CNN but then again you think those people from ACORN are rocket scientists so what does that tell everyone here about you.
rtr
Great article Frank and shows the real feelings of the people you live amongst "That buy the DIL's papers".
We are seeing more and more of the government not representing the people of the USA, Last night prime example with the representative votes going toward Obama;s Death Care when a vast majority of citizen do NOT want his Death Care “Can anyone say arrogance”
Note are very own Want-A-Be columnist little robbie starts right out with his insults of everything we stand for here in the Flathead Valley, the DIL and the goes on the personal attack saying he doesn't read "rtr's" comments any more.
The funny part of that is he states he has a business here so that relates to he is taking money from the very people he despises, buys the DIL himself which he despises and he wouldn't know what "rtr" was posting unless he was reading that too and despises his also. "I feel that puts me in good company if nothing else".
It is cowards like him that would be scared to death to stand on the street corner spewing his hatred of the Valley yet takes, takes and takes more from us here that support him. "I think there is a word for that" "Can anyone say hypocritical".
I completely agree with “odecindy” You seem to think you are of higher intellect but show no proof of it here, unfortunately.
Bronco
First and most importantly, ladies, welcome back! Now to further alienate me from the hordes...
“...if 80 percent of the people abhor their government, they can speak out loudly and insistently and overthrow their government peacefully.” Last year, 80% of the families in the USA did not buy a book. A third of high school graduates along with 42% of college graduates never read a book after finishing high school. Over 42 million adults in the US cannot read and another 50 million who read at fourth or fifth grade levels. The quality of public debate and information is poor. What we see and hear on television, radio and the internet is often nothing more than shrill partisan shouting. The issues are oversimplified, nuances get lost, and sound bites rule because of our short attention span. Sensational trivia and personal attacks more often than not make for better entertainment and the really important issues are pushed aside.
Many people are burdened by low levels of education and poverty. They are especially vulnerable to the effects of one-sided reporting. Fox News is one-sided reporting. Fox News is not news; it is opinion. It is an instrument that manipulates public moods, emotions, and impulses. It caters to a nation that now lives in a state of permanent amnesia. It is style and story, not content or history or even reality that forms the politics of the bulk of Americans today.
This column can be turned around. It opposes itself. When the ‘animals’ on Fox News ‘take over the farm with the best of intentions’ what makes us assume things won’t ‘go hideously wrong’? The column states: “Ultimately the high-minded principles of egalitarianism and opportunity turn into...power politics...” Now Fox News runs quite short of ‘high-mined principles.’ And ‘egalitarianism?’ By definition that’s extreme socialism. But it’s the other extreme we have to worry about too.
The Senate voted against reinstating the Fairness Doctrine last February. Now it’s being brought up again...by fear mongers? “Hey, look! This could happen! Another reason the Obama administration has to go!” Glenn Beck seems to think that Mark Lloyd, the FCC Chief Diversity Officer, can overrule the US senate. Hardly. If you buy into that, I got a bridge to sell you.
SorrySOB
From what I've observed, many more under educated people accept and believe most of what Fox news feeds them. For that reason, Fox will never go away as there are too many of those folks out there that are too lazy to get an education and be able to choose for themselves. Besides, Frank really hopes they don't go away. As a cub reporter for them he would be on his own in the big bad Democrat media world.
lousia
Thanks Frank for another great 2 cents. The las tthree paragraphs you wrote said it all.
well Obama I think would like to model the united states after his hero Hugo Chavez.
Watch and see. and where oh where will our first amendment be, not in America as we use to know it.
Tillie
"If Fox and Glenn Beck should thus suddenly disappear from the cable lineup sometime in the next few months, you will at least know what's to blame - good old 'Fairness.'"
And every minute that they do not disappear, Frank is wrong about the whole thing. For more of his cockamamie Chicken Little fears, just look back at practically every weekly column for the past four years. If fears were beers, Frank would be on his rears.
mooseberryinn
The disaster of the b.o. regime continues.
Rob123
odecindy: "The Constitution was created to give Us freedom from government. " Tell that to the IRS.....or the DEQ/EPA. I personally don't buy it. Way too simple. If I spring a leak in one of my tankers, and park it in your driveway, who you going to call?
odecindy
Excellent article, thank you! Very well thought out and presented. These are facts that most people are not aware of and very much need to be. The "Fairness Doctrine" (aka "Net Neutrality") is a huge danger to our freedoms in our united States of America.
Our First Amendment, "Freedom of Speech", gives us the right to speak freely without government control. The Constitution was created to give Us freedom from government. This law, if passed, will put more "control" in the government's hands. Never a good thing. I think that if there are people who like that kind of control over their lives, they should consider moving to Russia or Venezuela. The government there is waiting for them.
odecindy
Re: Post of "Rob123"
A very good example of the Progressive Liberal Left's attack, by the book. Marginalize (belittle), disparage, label and destroy. Thank you for such an excellent proferring of an opinion and the belittling that your ilk so likes to spew forth. Nasty, small mindedness is not becoming to you and you really should try to stop. "Intellectual Content" would be a welcome change from your side of the aisle Rob. You seem to think you are of higher intellect but show no proof of it here, unfortutnately.
Rob123
P.S. and remember rtr, I DON"T read your stuff anymore. Yet remember to put on your platform shoes so that you can look straight into other people's navels.
Rob123
" If Fox and Glenn Beck should thus suddenly disappear from the cable lineup sometime in the next few months, you will at least know what's to blame - good old "Fairness." " I'm with you on this one, Frank. Just because Fox can't report anything about the current administration without a Smirk and Eye-Roll by the talking heads in front of the camera doesn't mean they should be shut down. It just means they are smirky eye-rollers who know how to sell cynicism. And it's a money maker, just like our Founding Fathers were. Of course, the Founding Fathers had a better sense of 'polite public decor' and limited their public outcries to that nasty Aristocracy over across the ocean......funny how political systems need a fall guy, Real or imagined. Deflect-Divide-Conquer; poly sci 101. Fortunately, the 4th estate in America is run by innocent people doing the Best they Can in spite of losing their $1500.00 per car advertising fees since the collapse of the American Economy under the last President. Of course, as Fox tells us everyday, "it's Obama's economy now!", since his first Fiscal Budget started on 1 Oct 09, and it's been 5 weeks already! And things still suck, so ............lets go back to what we had! I think instead of being worried about "fairness", a little worry should be directed at "Intellectual Content". Remember, newspapers that write above the 6th grade reading level are niche papers, and editorials written above 11th grade reading levels are considered Heady Stuff, and relegated to .......Non-Fox owned media conglomerates. So Pres Obama is just going to have to get used to the loud, dumb downed, background noise......The worst that can happen would be the 'horror' of electing a modern day 'Pres. Andrew Jackson' in 2012. It could happen. A lot of 'Fox Only' t.v. gazers out there. The domestic equivalent of "Men who stare at Goats".