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Anderson Cooper and the ‘Big Bad Birthers’

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Posted: Sunday, February 27, 2011 12:00 am | Updated: 8:30 am, Tue Apr 22, 2014.

CNN’s Anderson Cooper may actually think he is a fair-minded journalist. But probably someone in a mental institution somewhere thinks he is Anderson Cooper. Which just goes to prove that thinking something, doesn’t make it so.

The problem, however, isn’t what Anderson Cooper thinks about himself, but that other people actually take him seriously as a journalist and opinion maker, too.

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          Welcome to the discussion.

          295 comments:

          • BarBarAhman posted at 2:53 pm on Wed, Jun 8, 2011.

            BarBarAhman Posts: 48

            Bronco: I love it when the right is silent except for throwing insults. Means we have scored!...again.

            HTC: No, it means that, in spite of your claims to the contrary, they have "compassion" which motivates them to periodically give you morons a break.

            BBA: That there's funny. I don't care who you are.

             
          • Haystack posted at 10:18 pm on Mon, Mar 21, 2011.

            Haystack Posts: 64

            Obamas first action in office was to sign Executive Order 13489 sealing ALL of his personnel records and his familys records. Thats got to tell you something.
            "Semper Vigilantis!!"

             
          • oneman posted at 10:54 pm on Wed, Mar 9, 2011.

            oneman Posts: 2

            Frank Meile may be able to explain the bill in question, but Rep. Wagner was not able to do so and should have been prepared since he was on CNN. This was bad strategy for those trying to advance a conservative agenda. What would you expect of Anderson Cooper? He's a liberal, and anything resembling a pro birther bill would surely be attacked. And what good does such a bill do? Stick to the basic issues. The Tea Party, if it has not already, should put a whole lot of distance between itself and such issues. Either that or go shoot itself in the foot.

             
          • Intelligent1 posted at 1:40 pm on Sun, Mar 6, 2011.

            Intelligent1 Posts: 7

            What is one supposed to expect from a little boy in a man's suit who got his 'job' because of who his mother is. I believe she was some hollywood trollop. Question to the illiberal unintelligencia, why do you pursue suicide for an entire country? Censorship, allying with the radical muslims, worship of vapid idols all are very destructive acts and being committed by the unintelligencia, aka leftists. Wake Up Sheeple!!!

             
          • jennydoe posted at 10:53 pm on Sat, Mar 5, 2011.

            jennydoe Posts: 2197

            HTC - They definitely need a good PR person...
            -----------------
            HELENA, Montana (Reuters) – About two dozen gun-toting Tea Party activists staged a rally at the Montana statehouse on Friday to support the Second Amendment right to bear arms and limiting the reach of the federal government.

            Outnumbered by the media and politicians in attendance, the protesters spoke in favor of conservative-backed bills to nullify various U.S. laws, such as the Endangered Species Act or the newly enacted reform of the nation's healthcare system.........
            http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110305/ts_nm/us_montana_teaparty


             
          • jennydoe posted at 10:18 pm on Sat, Mar 5, 2011.

            jennydoe Posts: 2197

            Ha, ha, haaaaa, You guys are friggin hilarious! This blog is like comedy central for me. It's almost like a comedy soap opera, with special needs characters playing poker, hahahaha!

            Thanks for the entertainment!


            Reb
            --------------
            Can we capitalize on this somehow?


             
          • Bronco posted at 10:18 pm on Sat, Mar 5, 2011.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            Oops! Cognitive dissonance., not dissidence. Hard day with the five year old kid.

             
          • Bronco posted at 10:16 pm on Sat, Mar 5, 2011.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            jennydoe, "compassion as defined by HTC."
            -----------------------------------

            No. Cognitive dissidence as described by benznd!

             
          • jennydoe posted at 10:15 pm on Sat, Mar 5, 2011.

            jennydoe Posts: 2197

            Jenny, Bronco's dissing your sister....

            "BJ, I don't like your tone. In fact, many are fed up with BJ'S TONE."
            ---------------------------------
            Barbara Jo aka BJ is used to being dissed. She is my sister. After all she calls herself a republican and in so many ways she is so much so. But in other ways that she is afraid to admit she has liberal tendencies. Therefore she just works her fanny off trying to become richer, complains about much and "hates the living"
            We have a deep sistorial love for one another and have both learned to tone it down.

            I don't believe Bronco was dissing my sister JEB. Have you ever tried to be nice to him? He seems like a great guy to me, willing to help out his neighbors and so many etc's. Why do you have a problem with him?
            He has extended his arm, so to blog, to you but all you can do is insult him. Kinda like Natural Resources with me, but hey all I can feel is a love for you all. Sometimes you are oh so ornery but other times you are downright spiteful. But when we don't hear from you, we really hope you are well and just too busy. Peace.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 9:58 pm on Sat, Mar 5, 2011.

            jennydoe Posts: 2197

            Bronco: I love it when the right is silent except for throwing insults. Means we have scored!...again.

            HTC: No, it means that, in spite of your claims to the contrary, they have "compassion" which motivates them to periodically give you morons a break.

            TEN MINUTES EARLIER:
            Bronco: Here we have our monopolized electric company who went on strike yesterday during a major storm-caused blackout. 3000 w/o power, stores closed, hospital struggling. They refuse to concede full benefits kicking in at 62 instead of 60.

            HTC: Since you support the whole union thing, this is really funny.


            I hope you were one of the 3000 affected.
            ----------------------
            compassion as defined by HTC.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 9:56 pm on Sat, Mar 5, 2011.

            jennydoe Posts: 2197

            NatRes -Jennydoe will you ever be able to ween yourself from the Daily Kos?
            ---------------
            Hey big Harley Rider, you're being a bit harsh don't you think?
            I have limited myself to 1 link to Daily Kos whereas I have made 2 to WorldNutDaily.
            What's more interesting, abortions induced by young teens with pencils or our Statue of Liberty wrapped in burkas?

             
          • jennydoe posted at 9:51 pm on Sat, Mar 5, 2011.

            jennydoe Posts: 2197

            Thanks Benz!
            and Rebel !!

             
          • Bronco posted at 9:13 pm on Sat, Mar 5, 2011.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            HTC: Since you support the whole union thing, this is really funny. I hope you were one of the 3000 affected.
            ----------------------------------------
            Dear HTC, I will write slow because I know you are a slow reader. If you bothered to read my earlier posts, you would find I do not support unions like I used to. And even if I was affected, I have a backup generator that's the envy of the neighborhood. Some come over to dry their laundry during a power outage.
            Thank you for all the insults this week. Good to know you have no defense accept offense.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:09 pm on Sat, Mar 5, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            Bronco: I love it when the right is silent except for throwing insults. Means we have scored!...again.

            HTC: No, it means that, in spite of your claims to the contrary, they have "compassion" which motivates them to periodically give you morons a break.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 7:59 pm on Sat, Mar 5, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            Bronco: Here we have our monopolized electric company who went on strike yesterday during a major storm-caused blackout. 3000 w/o power, stores closed, hospital struggling. They refuse to concede full benefits kicking in at 62 instead of 60.

            HTC: Since you support the whole union thing, this is really funny. I hope you were one of the 3000 affected.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 7:54 pm on Sat, Mar 5, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            Bronco: What kind of f...ed up logic is that? Using kids to catch criminals? Endangering the lives and well being of our children so we can end abortion?

            HTC: Yeah, I figured a moron like you wouldn't get the simple logic in that response. You just keep on demonstrating that there really is no fixing stupid.

             
          • Bronco posted at 7:53 pm on Sat, Mar 5, 2011.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            I love it when the right is silent except for throwing insults. Means we have scored!...again.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 7:52 pm on Sat, Mar 5, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            Bronco: That cannot be accomplish ed when you have an large educated population, hence the right wing attack on public education.)

            HTC: You're obviously a product of that failed public school system; hence, you don't even realize that you're not "educated." With most of our high school grads being functionally illiterate, it's a joke to say that the right has been attacking the public education system because of its success at educating the populace.

            The Democrats want an ignorant population that's dependent upon their handouts and that's why they and their union owners have fought every effort at meaningful education reform.

            Congrats on being one of their "useful idiots" without even knowing it.

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 6:46 pm on Sat, Mar 5, 2011.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1562

            Ha, ha, haaaaa, You guys are friggin hilarious! This blog is like comedy central for me. It's almost like a comedy soap opera, with special needs characters playing poker, hahahaha!

            Thanks for the entertainment!


            Reb

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 5:58 pm on Sat, Mar 5, 2011.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            Jenny, Bronco's dissing your sister....

            "BJ, I don't like your tone. In fact, many are fed up with BJ'S TONE."

             
          • Rob123 posted at 5:33 pm on Sat, Mar 5, 2011.

            Rob123 Posts: 6574

            An interesting article in Fridays WSJ concerning the differences in approach by the Repub Gov of Wis's "Take it or Leave it" approach to Union Busting and Ohio's Repub Gov's reasoned approach with his offer, that looks like it will be accepted, of Merit Pay instead of Step Pay. Repubs like it of course, but with calm reasoning, a lot of Union people like it too. Especially the young ones and the folks who understand Merit. Now that is a good thing happening, without out all the stupid drama of Wi., and it's totally reactionary politics.

            Olde buddy JB, ya need to elevate!

             
          • Bronco posted at 5:06 pm on Sat, Mar 5, 2011.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            BJ, I don't like your tone. In fact, many are fed up with BJ'S TONE.

             
          • Bronco posted at 5:04 pm on Sat, Mar 5, 2011.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            Here we have our monopolized electric company who went on strike yesterday during a major storm-caused blackout. 3000 w/o power, stores closed, hospital struggling. They refuse to concede full benefits kicking in at 62 instead of 60.

            A clear case of striking while the iron is cold?

            $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

             
          • Bronco posted at 4:56 pm on Sat, Mar 5, 2011.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            nat-res, do you have those lowered handle bars so your knuckles can still scrape the pavement like they do when you walk? Or do you sport the ape-hangers? Just because you pshaw the Theory of Evolution doesn't mean you cannot aspire to it.

             
          • naturalresources posted at 4:19 pm on Sat, Mar 5, 2011.

            naturalresources Posts: 511

            Bronco "Best post this week goes to benznd".
            If you google { pee wee herman/on brains} it, sort of, sums up the the Benzoid factor....

            Well....anyways.....fired up the Harley in anticipation of a warm spring day.

            Jennydoe will you ever be able to ween yourself from the Daily Kos?

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 2:53 pm on Sat, Mar 5, 2011.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            Benzened: "You think you know what I just said, but what I just said is not what you think was stated, or something like that"

            Please see reference to Bronco, "brains".

             
          • Rob123 posted at 2:37 pm on Sat, Mar 5, 2011.

            Rob123 Posts: 6574

            Thanks benznd!

            As usual, I feel a need to add and/or subtract, but I'm going with ye olde "It's not what you think.". Enjoy the day!

             
          • Bronco posted at 1:11 pm on Sat, Mar 5, 2011.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            Best post this week goes to benznd.

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 12:55 pm on Sat, Mar 5, 2011.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1562

            Dammit benznd123, yet another outstanding post (°u°)

             
          • benznd123 posted at 12:23 pm on Sat, Mar 5, 2011.

            benznd123 Posts: 222

            Correction. Last paragraph. It will no doubt not register with most..............

             
          • benznd123 posted at 12:21 pm on Sat, Mar 5, 2011.

            benznd123 Posts: 222

            Rob, it is very difficult for "people" in general to understand the concept of don't through it away, just realize its limits. It takes time when dealing with life's challenges to insert that concept into one's thinking. Too many of us are familially programmed from birth to see things as right or wrong, black or white then toss it. Everything we do, every reaction we have is open to interpretation. No right or wrong, unless it is unknowingly life threatening I would imagine.

            If that were the case for all mankind? Unfortunately, it is. "Much" of Africa and Asia has changed little in a thousand years of existence. Yet what is it about the human condition that allows for adaptation? Right brain attachment is an interesting concept.

            Right brain attachment is how problem solving is registered in the hippocampus, one of the major brain structures that is part of the limbic system responsible for functions like emotion and behavior. Emotion and behavior are crucial to our existence.

            How did it come about that ants learned to cross streams using leaves or things that float. Do you supposed some outcasts were standing by a creek, smoken cigs, having recently been expelled from the colony. They look to the water and see ants drowning by the thousands clinging to the dead as they attempt to cross. "How's that swimun thingee worken for ya?" Cognitive dissonance or cd anyone? We simply gave this innate survival adaptation a name to communicate with others. What floats and how can we use it. Drowning seems to be dysfunctional, simplistically stated.

            Bronco likes the concept and uses it often. It is overlooked as I would doubt many of the readers do not stop to connect the dots and understand. It is not that the concept is too overwhelming, it is that we are in such a rush to disprove. We seldom comprehend, we simply read and react to some supposed simplistic notion coming from the opposition. Me included.

            What does early cd look like in most humans. A child who is potty trained early generally has the ability to use their early language skills to interpret physiological signals. Bowls send the urgent "must evacuate signal", left hemisphere uses language "get on the pot", regardless of rewarding smile and praise. If life is about the pleasure principal, and pooping in diaper not pleasurable, then time to pay attention and try something that brings about pleasure. Or, what's wrong with this picture?

            What can override cd? Remember right brain attachment? Need for adaptability attaches infant to family/communty. The parent and community demonstrate a consistent method of problem solving with their own appropriate emotional overtones. Why are nomads nomads? Infants learn early on, through hard wiring, what their world is about and what they must do to survive. Not a great deal of cd here. Right brain attachment is the name of the game. Life remains essentially unchanged for thousands of years, regardless of the situation. This is a bit of oversimplification, as I am trying to make a point.

            Persian, Arabic and Eskimo are languages of survival, rules, etc. English on the other hand is very broad and speaks to change as well as consistency. The language of religion is consistency. There are not many Christian words that speak to cd. They speak to tradition, purpose, rules, etc. Most political conservatives use language that does not incorporate social cd. The language speaks to a thousand years of rules, emotions, behavior. Many infants who live in that world, become hard wired to these traditions. Much of their life is centered around the internal comfort these rules provide.

            "What we have here is a failure to communicate!" Oh yes, benznd FINALLY generates his hypothesis. You think you know what I just said, but what I just said is not what you think was stated, or something like that. Cd allows those whose language speaks to change and adaptability to constantly reevaluate life then adapt when necessary. There exists a need for those folk. There also is a need for the non-cd folk whoce language speaks to maintaining consistency against which adaptability can be measured. The problem arises when cd folk identify a need for adaption i.e., survival and it clashes with the rule oriented, hard wired folk ergo Egypt.

            That is about all I have to say about this subject. It will no doubt register with most, as I think my posts tend to drag on and on and on. Sorry, but one must attempt to establish a foundation from which to build. And, I am not putting anyone down. It is just a fact of life.........

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 11:41 am on Sat, Mar 5, 2011.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1562

            http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/03/03/the-fictions-of-mike-huckabee/?hp

            The way things have been going lately, this guy might be the next President, whaaaaat?

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 11:17 am on Sat, Mar 5, 2011.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1562

            Republican Feminists..........An oxymoron, like "right wing intellectual"

             
          • jennydoe posted at 11:07 am on Sat, Mar 5, 2011.

            jennydoe Posts: 2197

            The Michael Jame Lisk's out there would most likely punch the stomach of their lovechild than seek a safe abortion. I do believe you missed the point HTC. Had she had any adult that cared for her this may have not happened. Why are there MJL's out there in the first place. Did they lack parental guidance?
            1 in 3 women in the USA have utilized the many different services that Planned Parenthood offers.
            65% of women that do end up getting an abortion are mothers already.

            Funny when crap is mentioned JEB shows up.
            Shot in the head
            With words unsaid
            You give crap a bad name
            bad name

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 9:20 am on Sat, Mar 5, 2011.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            HTC: "Bronco: What you are is full of crap. Nobody slams the left more than you do in this room.
            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Well, of course, silly. They're the ones who've been in power and who've made most of the mistakes we've been discussing. If you didn't have crap for brains, you'd realize that."

            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

            While Bronco does have a definite proclivity to utilize bovine excrement disguised as "reasoning"......there's no cause to go giving crap a bad name....!!!

             
          • Bronco posted at 9:04 am on Sat, Mar 5, 2011.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            HTC, "And just think of how many Michael James Lisk's would go undetected if they could readily get their victims a legal abortion without their parent's knowledge."
            -----------------------------------------

            What kind of f...ed up logic is that? Using kids to catch criminals? Endangering the lives and well being of our children so we can end abortion?

            This girl obviously needed access to safe abortion care; if she had such access, she wouldn’t have had to self-induce abortion with a lead pencil. Abortion access would have lessened this tragedy by a significant degree. It’s shameful that, under the guise of caring about children and babies, anti-choice groups seek to limit abortion access for women and girls.

            A side note: In Montana, sexual intercourse with someone under the age of 16 can result in a life sentence. (Up to 100 years) For masturbation you only get a slap on the offending hand?

             
          • Bronco posted at 8:17 am on Sat, Mar 5, 2011.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            Thoughts on the Republican theocracy we may be heading for unless Republicans can figure out a better way to get the votes besides pandering to Christian fundamentalists:

            Will the Constitution be amended with a requirement for presidential candidates to be 'Born Again?'

            Will rapists go free while their victims who get abortions go to prison?

            Will Republican Feminists become extinct?

            Will gays and lesbians be forced to wear rainbow armbands?

            Will the Right wing attack on every social program that provides assistance for economically disadvantaged American citizens realize its goal of generating third world labor pool in the US? (That cannot be accomplish ed when you have an large educated population, hence the right wing attack on public education.)

            Will Margaret Atwood's 'The Handmade's Tale' be re-catagorized as non fiction?

            If the new bill introduced in Georgia (making abortion or miscarriage with “human involvement” a capital offense resulting in life in prison or the death penalty) becomes law will women be subject to uterus inspections by any man over 21 years of age?

             
          • Rob123 posted at 7:39 am on Sat, Mar 5, 2011.

            Rob123 Posts: 6574

            "HTC: Yes, there is a certain amount of satisfaction derived from watching an azzhole get what he/she desperately deserves."

            Well, that just about sums up your political philosophy, I reckon. Instead of plastic Pink Flamingos in your yard, you have real buzzards actively feeding, I am sure. Keeps it real for the hard nosed cowboy-engineer, from California.


             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 6:50 am on Sat, Mar 5, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            Rob123: Without schadenfreude you'd be nothing.

            HTC: Yes, there is a certain amount of satisfaction derived from watching an azzhole get what he/she desperately deserves.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 6:44 am on Sat, Mar 5, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            Bronco: Theocracy anyone?

            HTC: You obviously prefer the Thugocracy of the left.


             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 6:43 am on Sat, Mar 5, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            jennydoe: A look towards the present and future with our vulnerable young women and the republican way:
            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            And just think of how many Michael James Lisk's would go undetected if they could readily get their victims a legal abortion without their parent's knowledge.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 6:36 am on Sat, Mar 5, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            Rob123: And please, Herr HTC, don't forget to include Murphy's Law as a variable inside your Cathedral of Logic.
            -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Never forget this corollary to Murphy's law:

            The only thing more accurate than incoming enemy fire is incoming friendly fire.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 6:30 am on Sat, Mar 5, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            Bronco: Weigh in, Independent HTC.

            HTC: As I said in an earlier post this week, the GOP will trample on individual rights just as readily as Democrats in order to achieve their own "moral imperatives."

            Jennydoe: Do you think marriage should be between a man and a woman only?

            HTC: No.

            Jennydoe: Is Natalie Portman the loose woman Mike Huckabee says she is?

            HTC: I have no idea what Huckabee may have said about Natalie Portman nor do I care.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 3:47 am on Sat, Mar 5, 2011.

            Rob123 Posts: 6574

            jennydoe posted at 10:49 pm on Fri, Mar 4, 2011.
            "13-year-old-self-aborts-using-pencil"
            ***********************************************

            Bronco: " Theocracy anyone?

            Weigh in, Independent HTC."
            *********************************

            And please, Herr HTC, don't forget to include Murphy's Law as a variable inside your Cathedral of Logic.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 11:02 pm on Fri, Mar 4, 2011.

            jennydoe Posts: 2197

            and from the wnd folks:
            http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=270585

             
          • jennydoe posted at 10:49 pm on Fri, Mar 4, 2011.

            jennydoe Posts: 2197

            A look towards the present and future with our vulnerable young women and the republican way:

            http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/03/02/951697/-13-year-old-self-aborts-using-pencil

             
          • jennydoe posted at 10:32 pm on Fri, Mar 4, 2011.

            jennydoe Posts: 2197

            http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1363082/Scumbags-welcome--Churchs-controversial-billboard-attracting-criticism.html

             
          • jennydoe posted at 10:30 pm on Fri, Mar 4, 2011.

            jennydoe Posts: 2197

            HTC I don't care how much more informed you feel than I. I could care less if you are a bed wetter, although it seems JEB might (and it would explain alot). You are still messed up, hysterical and freaky, IMHO.
            Do you think marriage should be between a man and a woman only?
            Is Natalie Portman the loose woman Mike Huckabee says she is?

             
          • Bronco posted at 8:46 pm on Fri, Mar 4, 2011.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            Since when is marriage a government-controlled issue? You would think, on a logic-driven thread, that the Republicans, who supposedly are for less government, would be spearheading efforts against government interference in the affairs of love and religion. Instead, the Republicans are mounting an all-out effort to impose government regulation of this very private institution.

            Theocracy anyone?

            Weigh in, Independent HTC.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 2:46 pm on Fri, Mar 4, 2011.

            Rob123 Posts: 6574

            HTC: Without schadenfreude you'd be nothing.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 2:21 pm on Fri, Mar 4, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            Rob123: Ah, the Republican Mantra since the 80's......This morning on CNBC Squawk Box, they had a chart with Corporate Profits, as a % of GDP, from 1970 to 2010. 2010 was as high as they had ever been! Matched a few times, but not higher. Why? Consolidation, Productivity, and Lean,,,,with hiring!........ unemployment down to 8.9%, with private sector employment up a lot, and government employment down. Hum.
            ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            I'm still trying to figure out if you're a fool or just a fraud.

            Make it easy and tell me which it is - would you, please?

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 2:15 pm on Fri, Mar 4, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            Bronco: What you are is full of crap. Nobody slams the left more than you do in this room.
            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Well, of course, silly. They're the ones who've been in power and who've made most of the mistakes we've been discussing. If you didn't have crap for brains, you'd realize that.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 2:12 pm on Fri, Mar 4, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            jennydoe: Lewis & Clark Conservative Tea Party organizers say Friday's rally is meant to recognize and protect the right to keep and bear arms.
            -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            They definitely need a good PR person...

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 2:08 pm on Fri, Mar 4, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            jennydoe: Did you watch the video?
            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Yes, I did.

            There's at least three things that are newsworthy in this case which aren't mentioned whatsoever.

            The first is the fact that the Mexican authorities were kept in the dark because you can't trust them. One of the reasons that the drug and human smuggling cartels are so successful in Mexico is because they have so many people in the Mexican police and army on their payroll. Most of our agents who've been killed down there were compromised by Mexican insiders.

            Secondly, it is common practice to "let walk" contraband items in an effort to catch the top players. Enforcement strictly at the bottom of the pyramid accomplishes nothing, as those players are quickly and easily replaced. You have to cut off the head of the snake. So, what the ATF did was one of those necessary evils - a battle you have to let the bad guys win in order to win the war.

            Of course the "news" piece didn't explain that nor did they bother to mention that the cartels would have gotten the weapons elsewhere (Has the war on drugs eliminated them?), if necessary, and likely in a way that would make it impossible for us to find our way to the head of the snake.

            Lastly, ATF agents are the only federal law enforcement officers that don't get trained at Quantico and it shows in their execution failures versus the FBI, U.S. Marshalls and Secret Service. A buddy of mine who left the FBI to work at ATF was always complaining about the amateurs he had to work with and their blimp-sized egos.

            Perhaps those in the Justice Dept. who approved this operation should have taken that into consideration before approving it without interagency involvement. To "let walk" so many weapons and then not catch any of the higher level players is inexcusable and only underscores the lack of professionalism of which they're accused.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 1:42 pm on Fri, Mar 4, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            jennydoe: You are real messed up HTC. and Hysterical. and Freaky.
            -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            No, just better informed than you and not a bed wetter.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 1:39 pm on Fri, Mar 4, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            Rob123: You know, all those things you want to get rid of.
            ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            That's the largest chunk of B.S. you've yet pulled out of your azz and tossed onto this board.

            I've never said that I want to eliminate OSHA or unemployment insurance, although I think OSHA needs to be reformed in a number of ways.

            As for unemployment insurance, I do think there's something wrong with a system that pays someone more who's not working and contributing to society (i.e., welfare) than they pay to a worker who's between jobs. There's a message there and it ain't a good one.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 1:33 pm on Fri, Mar 4, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            Bronco: Haven't we learned that proving the deep current of hypocrisy that runs through Fox News means nothing to the fanatics who watch it religiously? Cognitive dissonance anyone?
            -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            In your case it would be cognitive disability.

            Do you hear all the screaming from the lamestream media about skyrocketing fuel prices? No, you don't. We heard it from them loud and clear when the same thing happened on Bush's watch.

            Why not now?

            You know the answer - the massive hypocrisy of the left which dominates the lamestream media.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 12:25 pm on Fri, Mar 4, 2011.

            Rob123 Posts: 6574

            jennydoe: "What fun are they if they are unloaded?"

            Most the old codgers who show up are used to shooting blanks?

             
          • jennydoe posted at 12:08 pm on Fri, Mar 4, 2011.

            jennydoe Posts: 2197

            Okay boys, here is our chance!

            HELENA - A tea party group is asking people to bring their guns to a rally on the steps of the Montana Capitol.

            Lewis & Clark Conservative Tea Party organizers say Friday's rally is meant to recognize and protect the right to keep and bear arms.

            Executive Director Tim Ravndal says in a statement that another purpose of the rally is to promote legislation that calls for the nullification of federal laws.

            The Montana Legislature is considering several gun-rights bills and measures that aim to let the state disregard some federal laws.

            Ravndal is encouraging people to bring weapons to the rally, but says they must be unloaded.
            ------------------
            What fun are they if they are unloaded?

             
          • jennydoe posted at 11:07 am on Fri, Mar 4, 2011.

            jennydoe Posts: 2197

            HighTechCowboy posted at 9:21 pm on Tue, Mar 1, 2011.
            ----
            just agreeing with you.....

            Secretary of State Charlie White, the top election official in Indianapolis, is facing seven felony counts, including voter fraud, perjury and theft, all connected to what a prosecutor said was an attempt to hold on to his seat on the town council even though he was living outside of his designated district...............

            http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/03/indiana_secretary_of_state_indicted_on_voter_fraud.php?ref=fpblg#


             
          • Rob123 posted at 10:53 am on Fri, Mar 4, 2011.

            Rob123 Posts: 6574

            HTC: "Well, geez, I mentioned that the GOP cuts weren't anywhere near large enough to "save" us.."

            That's your problem! I get it. You actually think it's an engineering problem, with One correct Answer.
            First you have to get beyond Aristotelian Logic (don't throw it away, just realize it's limits) and realize he and Plato's error in separating Being from Becoming (a real boom for lawyers and sophistry, not so good for understanding). Hook'em back up, and watch the process flow. Still a lot of hard work to do, but it makes more sense. Remember, there ain't no Final Solution. That illusion has played out, except for pockets of Hate. Some right here in NW Mt. and Idaho.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 10:20 am on Fri, Mar 4, 2011.

            jennydoe Posts: 2197

            HighTechCowboy posted at 9:49 am on Fri, Mar 4, 2011.

            Did you watch the video?

             
          • jennydoe posted at 10:16 am on Fri, Mar 4, 2011.

            jennydoe Posts: 2197

            HighTechCowboy posted at 9:34 am on Thu, Mar 3, 2011.
            ----
            so I find a somewhat interesting article perhaps linking to what you posted and I get this....?

            "This is "news" about as much as letting drugs through to track their movements and identify those involved is "news."

            I can't believe the hysterical hype involved with a story about standard investigative tactics.

            Must be because it involved GUNS - those scary, can jump off the table and shoot you at any time, evil tools of destruction."

            You are real messed up HTC. and Hysterical. and Freaky.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 10:12 am on Fri, Mar 4, 2011.

            Rob123 Posts: 6574

            "HTC: North Carolina has far more manufacturing than does New York. Think there might be a connection there?"

            Ya think? Of course, these jobs came post WW2, most post Vietnam Era, and the Northern Unions had already fought for and gained Rights that had trickled down to the rest of the nation through OSHA,NRLD, Unemployment Insurance, etc.. You know, all those things you want to get rid of.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 10:06 am on Fri, Mar 4, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            Rob123: I guess I was talking present tense and it's affect on the near future.
            -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Well, geez, I mentioned that the GOP cuts weren't anywhere near large enough to "save" us; complained about some of the GOP-backed nonsense going on in Helena right now; and mentioned that the GOP were just as willing to trample upon the Constitution to achieve their "moral imperatives" as were the Democrats.

            Waddya want - that I go to D.C. and punch Boehner in the face?

            As for reforming entitlements, the GOP has already tried that once. The ball is now squarely in the Democrat's court, especially Obama who has publicly acknowledge that entitlements are what's killing us. There's no way a fix in this area can be achieved without strong leadership from the president - especially a popular president and Obama's numbers are still surprisingly good.

            But you and I both know that neither Obama nor his party are going to touch entitlements because they've built their entire party around these handouts. Kill the handouts and you kill the Democratic party.

            They've sold the country down the river to build their party's power and they're just going to stand by and let the resulting economic destruction take its toll.

            Correction - they won't just "stand by". Oh, no, they'll insist that we're not in deep doodoo and that SS, Medicare, etc. are sustainable programs only requiring a few minor tweeks. Even if the GOP tried a second time, they'll again do everything they can to stop them.

            Their minions are already setting the stage from that prostitute of lies Michael Moore insisting that we're not broke to the N.Y. Times publishing an opinion piece just the other day claiming the same thing and that rumors of pending economic ruin are all just GOP fear-mongering.

            Question is - why aren't YOU going after the Dems on this?

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 10:05 am on Fri, Mar 4, 2011.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            Rob: "Certainly, after the 2008 hiccup over the Hawaii Birth Certificate the 4th Estate will Vette all Candidates with due deligence? "

            Why wouldn't they just continue to Mustang them as they do now.....or are you referring to the general overall actions of bed vetters like Anderson Cooper.....???

             
          • Bronco posted at 9:57 am on Fri, Mar 4, 2011.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            jenny, I watched Stewart last night. Haven't we learned that proving the deep current of hypocrisy that runs through Fox News means nothing to the fanatics who watch it religiously? Cognitive dissonance anyone?

             
          • Rob123 posted at 9:53 am on Fri, Mar 4, 2011.

            Rob123 Posts: 6574

            HTC: "Our primary business challenges today all come from government interference and incompetence and include high taxation, heavy regulation and regulatory costs, a failed public education system, unequal trade agreements and asinine energy and natural resource policies."

            Ah, the Republican Mantra since the 80's......This morning on CNBC Squawk Box, they had a chart with Corporate Profits, as a % of GDP, from 1970 to 2010. 2010 was as high as they had ever been! Matched a few times, but not higher. Why? Consolidation, Productivity, and Lean,,,,with hiring!........ unemployment down to 8.9%, with private sector employment up a lot, and government employment down. Hum.
            Now if we can just get your newly elected boys and girls to touch the 3rd Rail! "If your not living on the edge, your taking up too much room". I remain Pragmatic, however. (-:

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 9:53 am on Fri, Mar 4, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            jennydoe: (CBS News) WASHINGTON - Federal agent John Dodson says what he was asked to do was beyond belief.
            ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            This is "news" about as much as letting drugs through to track their movements and identify those involved is "news."

            I can't believe the hysterical hype involved with a story about standard investigative tactics.

            Must be because it involved GUNS - those scary, can jump off the table and shoot you at any time, evil tools of destruction.

             
          • Bronco posted at 9:49 am on Fri, Mar 4, 2011.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            HTC, "First of all, they're not my "boys and girls". I'm an independent, not a Republican."
            ----------------------------
            What you are is full of crap. Nobody slams the left more than you do in this room. And nobody defends the right as much as you do.
            I agree with many republican views...but I also agree with as many democratic views but you label me a progressive. What makes you so deluded as to believe you are independent? Your bank account?

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 9:49 am on Fri, Mar 4, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            jennydoe: Given how much Fox News has called teachers unions greedy for their pay and benefit packages, Jon Stewart expected them to have a consistent record of calling out greed in other sectors as well -- perhaps even in the financial sector.
            ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            I have seen FoxBusiness commentators on numerous occasions talk about "outrageous" executive compensation packages.

            Regardless, there's a BIG difference between these two cases. With the public employees unions they use the threat of strike of essential government services to coerce agreement to the terms they demand. On Wall Street and elsewhere in the private sector, it's whatever each individual can get on their own based upon their perceived value to the employer.

            That's a HUGE difference.

            As always, the amount of money involved is a DIVERSION. The important point in this case is the PROCESS involved.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 9:42 am on Fri, Mar 4, 2011.

            Rob123 Posts: 6574

            71% Believe Government Workers Get Better Pensions Than Those In Private Sector
            Friday, March 04, 2011
            Most voters believe those who work for the government get better retirement benefits than those who work for private companies and also think it’s unlikely their state can afford the benefits given to state workers.

            A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 71% of Likely U. S. Voters feel that, generally speaking, government workers get better pensions than private sector workers. Only 14% disagree, while slightly more (15%) are not sure. (To see survey question wording, click here.)

            However, just 32% of all voters say it’s at least somewhat likely that their state will be able to afford all the pension benefits it has promised to state workers while 56% say it’s not likely. Those figures include 8% who say it is Very Likely and 16% who say it is Not At All Likely.

            Voters strongly believe that government workers should wait until around age 65 to begin collecting full pension benefits. If someone joins the police force at age 20 and stays for 25 years, only 28% believe that person should receive a full pension for life at age 45. Sixty-one percent (61%) think they should find another job and wait until they retire at around age 65 to receive the full pension from their police work.

            Similarly, if someone becomes a teacher right out of college and stays for 30 years until they retire, just 36% say they should receive their full pension for life at that time. Fifty-six percent (56%), however, say they should find another job and wait until they retire around age 65 to get their full teaching pension.

            Most Americans continue to believe government workers also have more job security than those in the private sector and that they don’t work as hard as private sector workers.

            (Want a free daily e-mail update? If it's in the news, it's in our polls). Rasmussen Reports updates are also available on Twitter or Facebook.

            The survey of 1,000 Likely Voters was conducted on March 2-3, 2011 by Rasmussen Reports. The margin of sampling error is +/- 3 percentage points with a 95% level of confidence. Field work for all Rasmussen Reports surveys is conducted by Pulse Opinion Research, LLC. See methodology.

            Sixty-five percent (65%) of government employees believe that their pensions are better than those of private sector workers, a view shared by 77% of those employed by a private company.

            Perhaps not surprisingly since most unionized public employees are aligned with the Democratic Party, a plurality (48%) of Democrats say their state is at least somewhat likely to be able to meet promised pension benefits. Sixty-nine percent (69%) of Republicans and 65% of voters not affiliated with either major party say that’s unlikely.

            Governors in Wisconsin and New Jersey, battling large budget deficits, are at the forefront of efforts around the country to get unionized state employees to pay more for their health and pension benefits. In some states, these employees pay little or nothing toward those benefits, while nearly all private sector employees have sizable sums deducted from their paychecks for such benefits.

            Male and female voters are in general agreement when it comes to the timing of police pensions, but women are more inclined to favor early benefits for teachers than men are.

            Mainstream voters feel much more strongly than those in the Political Class that government workers have better pension benefits. Yet while 64% of Political Class voters think it’s likely that their state can afford the pension benefits promised to state workers, 70% of those in the Mainstream disagree.

            Seventy-eight percent (78%) of all voters say they have followed recent news stories about pension plans provided for government employees, with 50% who say they are following Very Closely.

            Thirty-six percent (36%) of voters nationwide think that in their state the average public employee earns more than the average private sector worker. Twenty-one percent (21%) say the government employee earns less, while 20% think their pay is about the same. Twenty-three percent (23%) are not sure.

            Most Wisconsin voters oppose efforts to weaken collective bargaining rights for union workers but a plurality are supportive of significant pay cuts for state workers. As Governor Scott Walker and public employee unions battle in the court of public opinion, Wisconsin voters continue to see spending cuts as the proper path to solving the state’s budgetary woes.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 9:33 am on Fri, Mar 4, 2011.

            jennydoe Posts: 2197

            (CBS News) WASHINGTON - Federal agent John Dodson says what he was asked to do was beyond belief.


            He was intentionally letting guns go to Mexico?

            "Yes ma'am," Dodson told CBS News. "The agency was."


            An Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms senior agent assigned to the Phoenix office in 2010, Dodson's job is to stop gun trafficking across the border. Instead, he says he was ordered to sit by and watch it happen.


            Investigators call the tactic letting guns "walk." In this case, walking into the hands of criminals who would use them in Mexico and the United States.
            .............................
            http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/03/03/eveningnews/main20039031.shtml

             
          • jennydoe posted at 9:31 am on Fri, Mar 4, 2011.

            jennydoe Posts: 2197

            Given how much Fox News has called teachers unions greedy for their pay and benefit packages, Jon Stewart expected them to have a consistent record of calling out greed in other sectors as well -- perhaps even in the financial sector.

            Big surprise: the record is hardly consistent.

            On Thursday night's Daily Show Stewart began by pretending to buy into the Fox argument that teachers are grossly overpaid.

            "They're not big shot teachers with their desks and seemingly endless supply of colored construction paper."

            "Oh! And their number two pencils," Stewart went on. "I suppose Number three pencils aren't good enough for Your Majesty."

            He then played footage from just a few months ago that showed Fox anchors wailing that the Bush tax cuts must be extended for people making over $250,000 per year because those people, as one anchor put it, were almost living in poverty.

            "See the difference?" Stewart asked. "Regardless of the greed-based, slightly sociopathic job bankers did wrecking our economy, those people were there every single day, twelve months a year."

            Watch the video below:

            http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/03/jon-stewart-nails-fox-news-hypocrisy-on-teachers-vs-wall-street-pay-levels.php?ref=fpblg#

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:33 am on Fri, Mar 4, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            Rob123: Among states, New York had the highest union membership rate (24.2 percent)
            and North Carolina had the lowest rate (3.2 percent). (See table 5.)

            HTC: North Carolina has far more manufacturing than does New York. Think there might be a connection there?

            Rob123: So HTC, in your fine, objective analysis of the U.S.Economy, it's these 14.7 million unionized workers who are causing most of the deep seated problems and causing the Capital held by the 1% to move off shore inorder to get a better rate of return without all the headache of oversight?

            HTC: Never said that; in fact, what I did say was that the unions played a major role in the PAST exodus of manufacturing from our shores. One of THE primary reasons why private sector union membership is so much lower than it used to be is because most of those formerly unionized jobs have already fled our shores and bringing them back will be much harder than it would have been to make the changes to keep them here in the first place.

            Our primary business challenges today all come from government interference and incompetence and include high taxation, heavy regulation and regulatory costs, a failed public education system, unequal trade agreements and asinine energy and natural resource policies.

            As Reagan put it: "Government isn't the solution - government is THE problem."


             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:19 am on Fri, Mar 4, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            Benznd123, here's some information on Cornell University's website that you might find interesting:

            http://wri.eas.cornell.edu/gas_wells_waste.html

            They've studied the Marcellus shale wells, drilling waste analyses, cleanup and disposal processes and regulations to great length and it appears that some reports are generating undue alarm.

            Shale deposits like Marcellus are what they call maritime shales or black shales and they do contain NORMs (Naturally Occuring Radioactive Materials), mostly uranium, radium and thorium; however, these do not occur at levels that represent a risk to field personnel and are filtered out of the fracking fluids along with the other solids produced by the drilling process. They are then disposed of as solid waste at approved sites for this kind of material.

            It's also clear from Cornell's summary that dumping these wastes onto the ground or, worse yet, into surface water flows, would be highly illegal and subject the driller to criminal as well as civil prosecution. Regardless, Cornell researchers and others have simulated spills into surface water flows and found that dilution and natural filtration would quickly render levels well below any hazardous limits.

            BTW, because uranium is one of the most widely naturally occuring metals in the earth and radium-226 is a byproduct of its decay, radium-226 is commonly found in the environment, including in plants and animals.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 3:44 am on Fri, Mar 4, 2011.

            Rob123 Posts: 6574

            Bureau of Labor Statistics....US Government.....http://www.bls.gov/news.release/union2.nr0.htm

            The latest on how many folks REALLY belong to unions. Both Private and Government.

            For release 10:00 a.m. (EST) Friday, January 21, 2011 USDL-11-0063

            Highlights from the 2010 data:

            --The union membership rate for public sector workers (36.2 percent) was
            substantially higher than the rate for private sector workers (6.9 percent).
            (See table 3.)

            --Workers in education, training, and library occupations had the highest
            unionization rate at 37.1 percent. (See table 3.)

            --Black workers were more likely to be union members than were white, Asian,
            or Hispanic workers. (See table 1.)

            --Among states, New York had the highest union membership rate (24.2 percent)
            and North Carolina had the lowest rate (3.2 percent). (See table 5.)

            Industry and Occupation of Union Members

            In 2010, 7.6 million public sector employees belonged to a union, compared with 7.1
            million union workers in the private sector.
            **************************************************************************
            So HTC, in your fine, objective analysis of the U.S.Economy, it's these 14.7 million unionized workers who are causing most of the deep seated problems and causing the Capital held by the 1% to move off shore inorder to get a better rate of return without all the headache of oversight?

            http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/jewpop.html

             
          • Rob123 posted at 2:57 am on Fri, Mar 4, 2011.

            Rob123 Posts: 6574

            http://www.halliburton.com/public/projects/pubsdata/Hydraulic_Fracturing/index.html

            Benznd: These are the folks doing some of the fracking in some of the Marcellus area. A list of Chemicals is contained on this web site, finally. It's still a mystery concerning what is left in the ground after they move on......Future generations will know!
            +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
            HTC: "I have several times this week. Having difficulty remembering things for more than a day?"
            Ya mean like saying Pres Obama is even more stupid than stupid olde Pres Bush? And whining about stuff in the past that didn't go your way? I guess I was talking present tense and it's affect on the near future. Like your comment that your boys and girls didn't specifically say they were going to touch Entitlements inorder to 'Balance the Budget and Deal with the Deficit', but anyone with an IQ over 85 or so knows that is what is needed. So the 'implied' fix got them into office, now they are asking Obama to lead the way.....all eyes on 2012, eh? Politics as usual.


             
          • benznd123 posted at 8:20 pm on Thu, Mar 3, 2011.

            benznd123 Posts: 222

            HTC: Fracking and Radiation

            Mr. Markey asked Ms. Jackson to provide any new steps the agency is taking to test sources of drinking water downstream from treatment plants that take in drilling waste and, if no regulatory changes are planned, to justify that decision in light of the Times report.

            According to a June 2010 article in the online journal Environmental Science & Technology, by David Kargbo, Ron Wilhelm and David Campbell, all of the EPA's Region III office in Philadelphia, the Marcellus Shale is considered to contain "elevated levels" of naturally occurring radioactive materials.

            They cite a recent study of 13 Marcellus fracking wastewater samples by the New York Department of Conservation that found levels of radium-226 as high as 267 times the safe disposal limit and thousands of times higher than the safe drinking water limit. Another study by the New York Department of Health found elevated radium-226 levels in samples of drilling "brine," a salty drilling wastewater.

            John Hanger, former secretary of the Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection, denied charges in the Times article that the state's gas drilling regulations are "lax," citing regulatory changes that tightened water withdrawal and disposal rules, stream protections and drilling standards.

            But he said it raises "serious concerns" about radioactivity and public health.

            During his more than two years as DEP secretary, Mr. Hanger said he reviewed the radioactivity issue with David J. Allard, DEP deputy secretary for the Bureau of Air, Recycling and Radiation Protection, and they determined it was not a threat to drilling workers or the public.

            "Personally I believe there isn't a [radiation] problem," Mr. Hanger said. "But test the water."

            A November 2010 study of fracking's effect on radioactive material in the Marcellus Shale by Tracy Bank, a geologist at the State University of New York in Buffalo, found that the process that released the gas also releases uranium trapped in the shale. She said additional study is needed to understand and predict the reaction in the shale to fracking.

            "We found that some of the metals in the shale can react to the fracking fluids and become mobile, including uranium, chromium and zinc, which can come back to the surface with the fluids," Ms. Bank said. "It's totally treatable and all the chemically contaminated waste water needs to be treated. It definitely can't be disposed of in streams without treatment. That might result in a fish kill."

            Kathryn Klaber, president and executive director of the Marcellus Shale Coalition, a lobbying and advocacy organization that includes most of the drilling companies operating in the Marcellus Shale, said after drilling companies pre-treat wastewater to settle out drill cuttings and other solids, which are sent to approved landfills, radiation levels of water sent to sewage treatment plants for discharge are much lower.

            Public drinking water intakes do not often test for radiation levels, but the Pittsburgh Water and Sewer Authority will do so this year because of issues raised by the Times article, said Stanley States, authority water quality manager.

            The DEP said it has added 78 well inspectors in the past 18 months to review operations at the 2,815 Marcellus wells drilled to date.

            Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11060/1128778-455.stm#ixzz1Fb5EuryY

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 7:51 pm on Thu, Mar 3, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            Rob123: You should at least kick a Republican now and then inorder to create the illusion of 'Independent"?
            ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            I have several times this week. Having difficulty remembering things for more than a day?

             
          • Rob123 posted at 7:38 pm on Thu, Mar 3, 2011.

            Rob123 Posts: 6574

            HTC: "I find it interesting that a number of Democrats who opposed Iraq are calling for us to create a No Fly zone in Libya.

            What's different now?"
            ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
            HTC: "First of all, they're not my "boys and girls". I'm an independent, not a Republican."

            You should at least kick a Republican now and then inorder to create the illusion of 'Independent"?


             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 7:18 pm on Thu, Mar 3, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            Rob123: Hopefully, the sound isn't our airplanes taking out Libya's radars inorder to create a No Fly Zone.
            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            I find it interesting that a number of Democrats who opposed Iraq are calling for us to create a No Fly zone in Libya.

            What's different now?

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 7:11 pm on Thu, Mar 3, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            Benznd123: Did anyone happen to see the supposed broadcast on Fox yesterday? Fox supposedly had a reporter who was on the scene in Madison, filming the nastiness of the teachers and firefighters and clerical folk. However, in the background of this fighting were palm trees.
            ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            I think you're talking about the O'Reilly show and I did look up the complete segment on line. Bill was interviewing the FoxNews reporter in Madison and they were talking about the protests occuring in various capitals around the country in support of the protesters in Madison.

            The footage shown in the background was of a protest in Sacramento, CA. The FoxNews reporter made it very clear that the protesters in Madison were generally well behaved but that a few of them had tried to shout him down and block his cameraman when they were doing a story on the protests.

            Apparently some bloggers took the whole thing out of context and tried to claim that O'Reilly and the Fox reporter were claiming the violence was occuring in Madison which was definitely not what was reported on the show.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 7:06 pm on Thu, Mar 3, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            Rob123: Fecal matter is also found on 90% of toothbrushes.......However, it's the amount that matters.
            ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Of course, if you're a Democrat, it's your bread and butter.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 7:03 pm on Thu, Mar 3, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            Rob123: Excuse me? Your boys and girls got elected by promising to touch it!
            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            First of all, they're not my "boys and girls". I'm an independent, not a Republican.

            Secondly, please show me where the GOP candidates promised to cut Social Security and Medicare. They promised to reduce the deficit, but I never saw them specifically target entitlements.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 6:01 pm on Thu, Mar 3, 2011.

            Rob123 Posts: 6574

            Fecal matter is also found on 90% of toothbrushes.......However, it's the amount that matters. Our guts can handle a certain degree of it. Fox, however, is over the top.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 5:09 pm on Thu, Mar 3, 2011.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            Bronco: "I sincerely believe people talk about me. Mine would be a pretty meaningless existance if they didn't."

            .....as opposed to WHAT....???

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 4:04 pm on Thu, Mar 3, 2011.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            Benzened: "However, in the background of this fighting were palm trees."

            Naaaah....that was Libya.

             
          • Bronco posted at 4:01 pm on Thu, Mar 3, 2011.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            HTC, "Here's a cheery thought - fecal matter found on three-fourths of grocery store shopping carts tested:"
            ----------------------------
            Dang! Another Leftie Conspiracy exposed...

             
          • benznd123 posted at 3:45 pm on Thu, Mar 3, 2011.

            benznd123 Posts: 222

            Did anyone happen to see the supposed broadcast on Fox yesterday? Fox supposedly had a reporter who was on the scene in Madison, filming the nastiness of the teachers and firefighters and clerical folk. However, in the background of this fighting were palm trees. I do not know if anyone else saw that and already had it posted as I have not gone back to look at them all. But it just scares the holy he11 out of me. The end justifies the means? We all need to come to the table and make this whole thing right. We are way over the top in this country. Frightening indeed. No one can claim top dog as this is not the kind of society we live in.

             
          • benznd123 posted at 3:35 pm on Thu, Mar 3, 2011.

            benznd123 Posts: 222

            Here is another one HTC. Cocaine is found on "most" paper money. I could look it up but you know what I'm saying.

            Here is how the Chinese handle protests. And it has a familiar ring to it.............

            Give China’s government credit: at least they’re not pretending they don’t muzzle speech. Western reporters say they’ve been called into meetings in Beijing where police warned them not to cover pro-democracy protests inspired by unrest in the Middle East. Authorities told reporters they could lose their credentials and be forced to leave China if they fail to comply, and some TV employees said they’d even been told they needed prior approval for any filming. The government says it’s simply trying to avoid misleading coverage by troublemakers trying to stir up unrest.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 2:24 pm on Thu, Mar 3, 2011.

            Rob123 Posts: 6574

            HTC: "Rob123: The overall sample for the survey included 30% of union households. That includes 33% with a private sector union member and 60% with a public sector union member. "
            "There's lies, damn lies and then there's polls."

            Mark twain said that about statistics with Humor in mind.

            HTC: "Obama's refusal to lead on this and his attempting to bait the GOP into tackling it shows what a cheap coward he really is."
            Excuse me? Your boys and girls got elected by promising to touch it! Now they are backpeddling! Apparently they went over to K Street and met all the Radicals from the Reagan Days, saw their big houses, and realized how the game is played.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 1:45 pm on Thu, Mar 3, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            Here's a cheery thought - fecal matter found on three-fourths of grocery store shopping carts tested:

            http://www.usatoday.com/yourlife/health/2011-03-02-grocerycarts_N.htm

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 1:38 pm on Thu, Mar 3, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            Rob123: Once the Repubs touch the Third Rail as promised, the backlash will mean Obama won't even have to raise money for the campaign.
            ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen. The GOP tried this once already under Bush and many of his fellow Republicans wouldn't support him because of America's resistance to recognizing the coming disaster.

            Obama's refusal to lead on this and his attempting to bait the GOP into tackling it shows what a cheap coward he really is.

            So onward we march to financial ruin....

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 1:34 pm on Thu, Mar 3, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            Bronco: Given the increasing scarcity of rational things to fear in 20th century American society....
            ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            You might want to spring ahead a bit and try joining the rest of us in the 21st century where there's plenty to be concerned about, from terrorists wanting to kill us to global economic depression.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 1:31 pm on Thu, Mar 3, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            Bronco: And what's with this so-called Mainstream Media?
            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            That's one reason why we now refer to the other media as the lamestream media.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 1:29 pm on Thu, Mar 3, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            Rob123: The overall sample for the survey included 30% of union households. That includes 33% with a private sector union member and 60% with a public sector union member.

            Additionally, the sample includes 46% who voted for Governor Walker last November and 45% who voted for his challenger Tom Barrett. Walker actually won the election by a 52% to 46% margin.
            ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            This is the most relevant part of the entire poll piece because it shows that union members and Democratic voters were heavily overrepresented in the poll sample.

            When one adjusts the poll results to reflect that fact, all of a sudden Walker wins both on budget cuts and on reducing collective bargaining rights.

            Just another example of why we have the old saying "There's lies, damn lies and then there's polls."

             
          • Rob123 posted at 11:57 am on Thu, Mar 3, 2011.

            Rob123 Posts: 6574

            Bronco: "Rob, I didn't get my copy of the Left Agenda this morning. I was looking forward to how we are going to fake another 9 million votes in 2012 so Obama can carry the election."

            Once the Repubs touch the Third Rail as promised, the backlash will mean Obama won't even have to raise money for the campaign. Of course, everyone of the Political Class knows this, so the most we can do is put our ear to the ground and listen. Hopefully, the sound isn't our airplanes taking out Libya's radars inorder to create a No Fly Zone. It could look like War, using base judgements like International Law, which doesn't cross too many minds over on Murphy's Right. And it would create a 'Benz defined' distraction?

             
          • Bronco posted at 10:19 am on Thu, Mar 3, 2011.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            Rob, I didn't get my copy of the Left Agenda this morning. I was looking forward to how we are going to fake another 9 million votes in 2012 so Obama can carry the election.

            And what's with this so-called Mainstream Media?

            From the Conservapedia:

            "Most Americans consider Fox News very much part of the Mainstream Media, as, according to ratings organisation Nielsen:
            Fox News has 10 of the 10 most viewed shows on Cable TV News (as of Dec 2009)
            Fox News mean prime-time viewing figures are triple that of MSNBC, and double that of CNN, and exceed the total ratings of CNN, MSNBC and CNBC combined.
            "In 2006, more than half the people watching cable news were watching Fox News"
            ---------------------------
            Paranoia quotes from the Two Cents:

            JB: I sincerely believe people talk about me. Mine would be a pretty meaningless existance if they didn't.
            HTC: The truly paraniod are rarely conned.
            Pete: Paranoia is the delusion that your enemies are organized.
            jennydoe: Paranoia strikes deep
            Into your life it will creep
            It starts when you're
            always afraid. You step out
            of line, the man come and
            take you away.
            Rob: Freedom is just a hallucination created by a pathological lack of paranoia.
            Frank: I love this job. Nothing like paranoia and neurosis. Who needs a Coke habit? I've got journalism!!
            Bronco: There's something inherently American about paranoia. Given the increasing scarcity of rational things to fear in 20th century American society, we dream up theories whose inevitable result is the chaotic disruption of our comfortable, orderly life-usually with dastardly consequences. I think we get a perverse thrill that comes from it.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 10:07 am on Thu, Mar 3, 2011.

            Rob123 Posts: 6574

            Wisconsin Poll: Support for Budget Cutting, Not for Weakening Collective Bargaining Rights
            Thursday, March 03, 2011
            Most Wisconsin voters oppose efforts to weaken collective bargaining rights for union workers but a plurality are supportive of significant pay cuts for state workers. Governor Scott Walker is struggling in the court of public opinion, but how badly he is struggling depends upon how the issue is presented. There is also an interesting gap between the views of private and public sector union families.

            A new Rasmussen Reports telephone survey of Wisconsin voters shows that just 39% favor weakening collective bargaining rights and 52% are opposed. At the same time, 44% support a 10% pay cut for all state workers. Thirty-eight percent (38%) are opposed. That’s partly because 27% of Wisconsin voters believe state workers are paid too much and 16% believe they are paid too little. Forty-nine percent (49%) believe the pay of state workers is about right. (To see survey question wording, click here.)

            To gauge support for the Governor’s stand, Rasmussen Reports asked about the dispute in two separate ways. Half the survey respondents were asked about the Governor’s proposals to reduce the state budget deficit and whether they supported the Governor or state senate Democrats. The other half were asked about the plan to weaken the collective bargaining rights of state unions and asked whether they supported the Governor or the union.


            The survey of 800 Likely Voters in Wisconsin was conducted on March 2, 2011 by Rasmussen Reports. The margin of sampling error is +/- 4 percentage points with a 95% level of confidence. Field work for all Rasmussen Reports surveys is conducted by Pulse Opinion Research, LLC. See methodology.

            Among those asked about the state budget deficit, 52% supported the Democrats and 44% supported the Governor. Most of those 50 and over support the Governor, 40-somethings are evenly divided, and those under 40 support the Democrats.

            Among those asked about weakening collective bargaining rights, 56% supported the union and 41% supported the Governor. There is a similar age dynamic on this question, even though the overall level of support for the Governor is lower.

            While most voters oppose the Governor’s effort to weaken collective bargaining rights, 43% believe that the public employee unions have too much influence on politics in Wisconsin while only 9% say they have too little influence. Forty-two percent (42%) say the public union influence is about right.

            Additionally, 49% believe it’s good that most teachers belong to a union. Among those with children in the public school system, 58% believe that’s a good thing.

            Among households with a private sector union member, 44% say that public employee unions have too much influence while only 9% say they have too little influence. Those who have a public sector union employee in the household strongly believe that the level of influence is about right. Additionally, most private sector union households (57%) favor a pay cut for all state workers. Not surprisingly, households with public sector union members hold the opposite view.

            Collectively, the data suggests a fluid situation. If the debate is seen to focus primarily on efforts to weaken collective bargaining rights, Governor Walker is in a weak position. If the debate is seen to focus primarily on efforts to reduce the state budget deficit, the Governor may be on stronger ground.

            Nationally, 47% of voters support the Governor and 42% support the unions.

            The overall sample for the survey included 30% of union households. That includes 33% with a private sector union member and 60% with a public sector union member.

            Additionally, the sample includes 46% who voted for Governor Walker last November and 45% who voted for his challenger Tom Barrett. Walker actually won the election by a 52% to 46% margin. This discrepancy may be the result of some people choosing to “forget” they voted for Walker or it could result from the fact that the Likely Voter turnout in a presidential election cycle tends to be more favorable to Democrats than the turnout during a mid-term election. In the case of a state like Wisconsin, that’s largely because younger voters are more likely to turn out in a presidential election year.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 9:34 am on Thu, Mar 3, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            Texas Farmers and Ranchers Under Attack Along Our Border:

            http://protectyourtexasborder.com/Frontline.aspx

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 9:29 am on Thu, Mar 3, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            Rob123: Achtung, Baby!
            ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Watch it or I'll share with the group the rest of the intel I've been getting from your Deer Herd (or is that Deer Heard?).

             
          • who new posted at 9:25 am on Thu, Mar 3, 2011.

            who new Posts: 367

            Establishing procedures by which the Constitution’s requirements for eligibility for presidential candidates may be verified – boring, only a few strict constitutionalists really care.

            Supreme Court decides the 1st Amendment rights of an anti-gay group are superior to the rights of a family to have their deceased son honored without ridicule for the ultimate sacrifice he has made for his country – interesting, to all but strict constitutionalists.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 9:06 am on Thu, Mar 3, 2011.

            Rob123 Posts: 6574

            HTC: "..... only FoxNews has reported it. It isn't because FoxNews "lies" that the left wants to bury them - it's because they're the only ones exposing the left."
            Herr Goebbels would be impressed with your early morning roll........Achtung, Baby!

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:51 am on Thu, Mar 3, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            Pete: [from Teachers Unions 101: "A" is for "Agitation"] - "In return, you may recall, the Obama administration granted the UFT one of its coveted health care Waivers for Favors last year -- exempting the behemoth union in a sweetheart deal from the federal mandate's costly rules on phasing out annual health coverage limits."
            -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            The administration has now granted hundreds of these waivers, mostly to corporations that have been major Democratic contributors. The waivers are being sought because everyone, including Obama, knows that Obamacare will make health insurance substantially more expensive.

            Of course, the lamestream media isn't covering that story either - only FoxNews has reported it. It isn't because FoxNews "lies" that the left wants to bury them - it's because they're the only ones exposing the left.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 8:48 am on Thu, Mar 3, 2011.

            Rob123 Posts: 6574

            HTC: "Try not to be a garden variety jerk either."
            Talking to my Deer Herd, eh? At least your getting out of the house a little. Time for a gag order, I guess?

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:40 am on Thu, Mar 3, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            Pete: [from Teachers Unions 101: "A" is for "Agitation"] - "Inside the pamphlet, NYSUT President Richard Iannuzzi rails against "malicious politicians" in Wisconsin and elsewhere proposing "extreme anti-union" budget cuts. He urges his members to join "advocacy" efforts to "maintain critical resources" and lectures about the need to "value education over ideology and greed."
            ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Value education over "greed?"

            That's funny coming from a union head where greed is job 1. The only reason for collective bargaining is to secure more than free markets would justify. When you add into the picture the fact that the teachers' unions have fought all meaningful education reform for more than 40 years, leaving us with one of the worst public school systems in the free world, it's painfully clear that they don't value education over greed.

            Malkin is correct about a lot of teachers being opposed to what their unions are doing. Several years ago in California, a large number of teachers who were forced members of the California Teachers Association (CTA, which might as well stand for Can't Teach Anymore) sued their union to try to force the union to require their approval to use their dues for political purposes (typically donating them to Democratic politicians).

            They ultimately lost in the courts so took to the ballot, getting enough signatures to put an initiative on the ballot that would require unions to get each member's permission before they could use their dues for political purposes.

            As you would imagine, ALL the unions joined in on that one, spending tens of millions of dollars to defeat it which they narrowly did.

            Many of the teachers who led that effort were subsequently fired. A few succeeded in proving in the courtroom that their firing was retribution and not "for cause" as claimed. Many others ultimately left California because they were sidelined in their careers but, fortunately for them, the demand for teachers eslewhere in the country was very high.

            The unions play dirty, even with their own.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:17 am on Thu, Mar 3, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            bill39: Mail in ballots is probably a nationwide thing. Vote fraud is already an issue in bigger cities.
            ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            You're quite correct, Bill.

            I'll never forget a case which occured in San Francisco shortly before we left that area. A radical left candidate won a House race by a landslide in a district which had always been slighlty on the conservative side. Republicans wanted a recount with their representatives present.

            Election officials declined and the court initially sided with them but ordered the Clerk to secure the ballots, pending the appellate court outcome. The appelate court ordered the recount but when they went to retrieve the ballots, they were gone (and it was a locked, secured room with no windows.)

            The Coast Guard later found some of them and the boxes which held them floating in San Francisco Bay.

            Without any ballots, no recount and no change in the election outcome. The investigation later produced three suspects but none were charged due to a lack of sufficient evidence to convict.

            The appellate court ordered the Clerk to allow both parties to observe the counting in the next election and that result once again produced a Republican winner. Granted, we're talking about a RINO, since the setting is California.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:04 am on Thu, Mar 3, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            Rob123: It is thinking like that which causes me to not be a Knee Jerk Democrat.....And it is the lack of Geopolitical understanding that causes me not to be a Knee Jerk Republican.
            -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Try not to be a garden variety jerk either. :)

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:00 am on Thu, Mar 3, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            jennydoe: Ahhhh, but they are catching on. Up with the middle class!!!!!!
            -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Yeah, we're catching up - with Greece.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 7:54 am on Thu, Mar 3, 2011.

            jennydoe Posts: 2197

            "B" is for "Boener"
            "C" is for "Charlie"
            "D" is for "Dufas"

            Judson Phillips, leader of Tea Party Nation, one of the movement's largest national groups, expressed his disgust with the GOP's latest efforts to slash spending Wednesday, claiming that Charlie Sheen was more reasonable than Speaker of the House John Boehner.

            "Charlie Sheen is now making more sense than John Boehner," Phillips wrote in a post on the group's website, CNN reports.

             
          • Pete posted at 5:43 am on Thu, Mar 3, 2011.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Teachers Unions 101: "A" is for "Agitation"
            by Michelle Malkin

            03/02/2011

            If public school teachers spent more time teaching in classrooms and less time community-organizing in political war rooms, maybe taxpayers wouldn't feel as ripped off as they do. Before the Big Labor bosses start complaining about "teacher-bashing," let's be clear: An increasing number of rank-and-file teachers feel exactly the same way.

            Retired New York teacher Vinne Cusimano, who was required to pay forced union dues in order to work, wrote me this week after receiving the March 2011 edition of his union's monthly publication. The cover of the New York State United Teachers (NYSUT) magazine reads: "Defend What Matters! Educate. Collaborate. AGITATE." Inside the pamphlet, NYSUT President Richard Iannuzzi rails against "malicious politicians" in Wisconsin and elsewhere proposing "extreme anti-union" budget cuts. He urges his members to join "advocacy" efforts to "maintain critical resources" and lectures about the need to "value education over ideology and greed."

            Cusimano, who taught for four decades in the Empire State, fired back at Ianuzzi in an open letter:

            "As a member for over 40 years, I have never been so disappointed at the stand you are taking to call members to 'AGITATE!' We are trying to tamp down the rhetoric and you are outward(ly) inciting agitation. How dare you! You are supposed to be for the students/teachers. ... How can you support 'EDUCATE,' 'COLLABORATE,' and then encourage agitation?"

            More to the point, what business does Iannuzzi -- a fat-cat union official who rakes in nearly $300,000 a year (plus a $100,000 pension) while his organization's net assets are more than $117 million in the red -- have lecturing anyone else about "ideology and greed"? Instead of imposing fiscal discipline on NYSUT, Iannuzzi and his cronies have gone on a spending spree -- dumping nearly $10.5 million into left-wing Democratic politics this past year alone. The NYSUT boasts a lobbying staff of 500, a 200,000-square-foot palace in Albany and a $213 million operating budget -- paid for through compulsory union dues of about $300 a year from some 600,000 members.

            "Agitation," of course, is a full-time job for teachers union officials in New York and across the country. As the New York Post reported exclusively this week, the city Department of Education compensates some 1,500 teachers for their union activities and also subsidizes other teachers who take their places in the classroom: "It's a sweetheart deal that costs taxpayers an extra $9 million a year to pay fill-ins for instructors who are sprung -- at full pay -- to carry out responsibilities for the United Federation of Teachers."

            The UFT soldiers "collect top pay and fringe benefits, but work just one class period a day." Nice non-work if you can get it.

            NYSUT, by the way, is the parent of the double-dipping UFT, which itself rakes in $126 million in member dues -- but only reimburses the city less than $1 million out of the $9 million it costs to take teachers out of the classroom to serve at the altar of Big Labor. UFT is also a chapter of the American Federation of Teachers (AFT), which spent nearly $2 million on the election of President Barack Obama in 2008. (In return, you may recall, the Obama administration granted the UFT one of its coveted health care Waivers for Favors last year -- exempting the behemoth union in a sweetheart deal from the federal mandate's costly rules on phasing out annual health coverage limits.)

            The forced-dues racket is big business for teachers unions crying poor. In Ohio, the state's education association siphoned nearly $23 million from rank-and-file school workers to fatten up its union staff. The Ohio Education Association donated more than $1.6 million to Democratic campaigns last year and tossed off five-figure checks each to union and progressive allies in Oregon, Colorado and Policy Matters Ohio, a left-wing think tank funded by radical billionaire George Soros.

            At the federal level, the National Education Association squandered $13 million in teachers' dues on every pet liberal cause and crony from the AFL-CIO ($150,000) and AFSCME ($90,000), to the Edward M. Kennedy Institute for the United States Senate ($200,000), Media Matters for America ($100,000) and the White House brigade at Health Care for America Now! ($450,000).

            The goals of the teachers union machine are not academic excellence, professional development and fairness. As former NEA official John Lloyd explained it: "You cannot possibly understand NEA without understanding Saul Alinsky. If you want to understand NEA, go to the library and get 'Rules for Radicals.'"

            The goals are student indoctrination, social upheaval and perpetual agitation in pursuit of bigger government and spending without restraint. No wonder the signature "solidarity" color of the teachers union protests this month is red.

             
          • Pete posted at 5:38 am on Thu, Mar 3, 2011.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            "Libya, Gas Prices, Ken Salazar, and You"

            http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=42096

             
          • Pete posted at 5:34 am on Thu, Mar 3, 2011.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            I realize there aren't any pictures for Jenny but, none-the-less....

            Associated Press - March 1, 2011 12:25 PM ET

            OSHKOSH, Wis. (AP) - An Oshkosh legislator has apologized for a remark he made to a political opponent on the floor of the Assembly following last week's contentious budget bill vote.

            Democratic Rep. Gordon Hintz, of Oshkosh, called Republican colleague Michelle Litjens (LIT'-jens), of Winneconne (win-uh-KAH'-nee), on Monday to make the apology over what he called an "outburst." Litjens says Hintz made remarks, which included an obscenity and the words "you're dead," after the bill was passed following days of Assembly debate.

            Litjens tells the Oshkosh Northwestern that she accepted the apology, but asked Assembly leaders to discipline Hintz.

            The Democratic lawmaker also apologized earlier last week after he was cited for visiting a massage parlor that was the subject of a prostitution sting.


            The Oshkosh Northwestern's report can be found at: http://bit.ly/eyMAA7


            Information from: Oshkosh Northwestern, http://www.thenorthwestern.com


            "Media Boycott of Wisconsin Assemblyman Telling Assemblywoman 'You Are F--king Dead' Continues"


            Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2011/03/02/media-boycott-wisconsin-assemblyman-saying-you-are-f-king-dead-assemb#ixzz1FXV27gWZ

             
          • bill39 posted at 5:10 am on Thu, Mar 3, 2011.

            bill39 Posts: 1039

            Good of you to share this Rob. Another thing that really concerns me is vote fraud. Now that there is such a THING as mail in ballots, I am afraid it will slowly ease in deeper and deeper. That is their plan. Mail in ballots is probably a nationwide thing. Vote fraud is already an issue in bigger cities.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 12:30 am on Thu, Mar 3, 2011.

            Rob123 Posts: 6574

            A little side note concerning Government Employees, their Union, and how far things have come. I received a letter today from the Dept of Labor and Industry, Unemployment Insurance Division, State of Montana. They agreed with me, and disqualified an employee from Unemployment Insurance. Fairly rare, even though I caught her stealing, had it on video, and she tearfully admitted it. Why did she get turned down? Because it was the SECOND time! If you fire someone the first time you catch them, they will get unemployment and that will affect an employers rating, which I try to protect.
            It's been like this for 25+ years, and it's incredible. The only thing that has changed is that I used to have to supply a written warning that had been signed if I wanted off the hook for firing a thief. Now, they are more likely to take my word for it.

            It is thinking like that which causes me to not be a Knee Jerk Democrat.....1 of a zillion 'rules'. To protect an employee from the ravages of an emotional boss-manager is one thing. It's gone way beyond that.

            And it is the lack of Geopolitical understanding that causes me not to be a Knee Jerk Republican. Military dollars that are not truely "Defensive" are dead end dollars with little multiplier effect. Corporate Welfare, while the bodies pile up.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 11:58 pm on Wed, Mar 2, 2011.

            jennydoe Posts: 2197

            HTC - We're doomed - Americans just don't get it:
            ---------
            Ahhhh, but they are catching on. Up with the middle class!!!!!!

             
          • Rob123 posted at 11:53 pm on Wed, Mar 2, 2011.

            Rob123 Posts: 6574

            HTC: "Total cost of the nanny state for the last ten years: $23,000,000,000,000+

            You're focused on a nose bleed while ignoring the severed artery."

            I point these little $200 Billion dollar espenditures out because the Republicans in general, and the Hard Right in particular, don't like to talk about such things. A lot of lip service about 'Support our Troops", but very little understanding of geopolitics and the nature of Murphy's Law.

            I understand the Third Rail quite well, and have for decades. I had already lost respect for Pres. Bush (because of Iraq) yet supported his efforts to do something for SS. It went nowhere. Disgusting.


             
          • Pete posted at 7:12 pm on Wed, Mar 2, 2011.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            HTC..."We're doomed - Americans just don't get it:"

            There is in fact a manly and legitimate passion for equality that spurs all men to wish to be strong and esteemed. This passion tends to elevate the lesser to the rank of the greater. But one also finds in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to want to bring the strong down to their level, and which reduces men to preferring equality in servitude to inequality in freedom. - Alexis de Tocqueville

             
          • Pete posted at 6:59 pm on Wed, Mar 2, 2011.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            "Clinton: Iran trying to influence Arab revolutions"

            http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPolitics/Article.aspx?id=210564

            No kidding? I thought that was just one of Glenn Beck's crazy conspiracies.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 6:51 pm on Wed, Mar 2, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            We're doomed - Americans just don't get it:

            http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704728004576176741120691736.html?mod=WSJ_hp_LEFTTopStories

             
          • Pete posted at 6:40 pm on Wed, Mar 2, 2011.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            A peek into the mind of a liberal hero...I just hope this doesn't give Jenny a hot flash.

            http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/03/02/moore_on_wealthy_peoples_money_thats_not_theirs_thats_a_national_resource_its_ours.html

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 6:32 pm on Wed, Mar 2, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            Rebel Rouser: You and I both know this never changes from one party to the other, This is where benznd123's diversions theory really comes into play, because we are ALL being played....

            HTC: It might surprise you to know that I, too, believe that we're "being played" by both parties, only in different ways. Both have agendas, some parts good and some parts definitely not so good.

            All of my life I've felt that I've been voting for the moment's lesser of two evils. I would love to vote for someone because I felt they were the best any society could offer.

            That said, I've found the Democratic agenda to generally be more damaging to our economic and national security than the GOP agenda, so have largely voted for Republicans as the lesser of two evils. I did vote for Carter and Clinton (the first time he ran), and really regretted voting for Carter. On Clinton, let's just say I didn't vote for him when he ran for reelection.

            Both parties have proven to me that they are willing to trample on our Constitution to achieve their most dear political objectives. Both will tell you that those sacred objectives are moral imperatives. Yeah, right.

            You are correct that we cannot ignore our fellow man who has done his part but got caught in the vise of changing times and political foolishness. I have long disagreed with Republicans who want to sharply limit our social safety nets without providing reasonable assistance at job retraining and reasonable protections against unfair foreign competition.

            At the same time, I have the harshest of criticisms for Democrats who pretend that our public school system isn't a complete failure and who have helped the teachers' unions successfully fight every effort to reform it.

            We owe every American a good education that truly prepares them to succeed in a global economy. Our public education system today is a complete failure in those terms. Even China does a far better job than we do.

            I am convinced of one thing especially: unless we break up our two-party lock on our system of government, we're screwed. One path will likely take a bit longer to destroy our way of life than the other, but the end result will be the same.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 6:14 pm on Wed, Mar 2, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            Rebel Rouser: However, when those elitist, corporate loving Republicans get into office they do NOTHING! Same as the Democrats, you know, the SAME THING!


            HTC: Not true. The GOP enacted significant reform to our welfare system in 1996, limiting all public assistance to a lifetime maximum of 5 years. The first two times they passed it, Clinton vetoed it. The GOP got enough Democrats to join them the third time around so that they had a veto-proof majority. Clinton wisely signed it the third time and has been taking credit for it ever since.


            The Welfare Reform Act of 1996 proved immensely successful at reducing the size of our welfare roles and breaking the cycle of dependency which it had created. Obama, however, repealed welfare reform with his so-called "stimulus" bill, once again making welfare a way of life. Apparently the Democrats discovered that when people get off of public assistance and actually have to pay the nanny state's taxes, they don't particularly like the Democratic party.


            Rebel Rouser: I don't think of social security as you do, because workers pay into this system during their working careers and they actually paid for it.

            HTC: Actually, we think alike on this point. SS was packaged as a "contract" with America's workers where they'd "pay it forward" and those coming up behind them would do the same. Because of this "contract", it would not be right to significantly alter the program for those already on it or close enough to retirement that they have no time to adjust to its absence/modification.

            On the other hand, it will be challenging to come up with a solution that doesn't grossly and unfairly punish our younger members for the stupid choices of their elders.

            Rebel Rouser: What is wrong with SS is the greedy politician b@stards that allowed the SS account to be raped and pillaged (by anyone with a pet project) and that has caused most of the problem.

            HTC: Contrary to popular belief, SS has always worked exactly as designed with said design never actually including a "lock box" of any kind. It was always intended that SS funds would be used to fund other government expenditures with SS receiving essentially an interest bearing IOU for those funds.

            Simply putting the funds under Uncle Sam's mattress would have been grossly irresponsible as inflation would rapidly erode its value, leaving little for the worker to retire on. On the other hand, having the government decide what areas of the private sector to invest those monies in would expose the economy to gross manipulation by special interests and political expediency.

            So, the decision was made to invest those payroll taxes in the equivalent of Treasury notes, money that Uncle Sam would have theoretically borrowed anyway. The problem with that approach is that, unlike private investment, "investing" in the government does not create new wealth but only additional debt. This was SS's biggest flaw and many politicians and liberal journalists still talk about SS being solvent until 2040, even though the government is already paying out more in SS benefits than it takes in via payroll taxes and the "trust fund" to finance SS until 2040 is nothing but a bunch of IOUs which will dramatically increase deficit spending from here on out.

            Politicians have long referred to SS and Medicare as the "third rail", a reference to electrically powered subway systems. Touch that third rail and you electrocute yourself.

            SS and Medicare are very popular with the American people and Bush's attempt to reform it during his presidency proved it to be a very risky proposition. It may be that more Americans now realize how close to economic disaster these programs have brought us and that reform is more feasible now, but only another attempt will prove that one way or the other, and no one seems ready to try - certainly not Obama and his party who've resisted it every step of the way.

            Rebel Rouser: I firmly believe that we need a system that lends a helping hand to our neighbors when needed (which was the original intention, plus a retirement security for individuals who do not understand investing)....

            HTC: I share your sentiments on this but don't know how we can institutionalize either of these objectives without violating the Constitution and/or recreating the same mess all over again.

            For most of our country's history, the truly needy AND deserving were served by private charity. That approach worked in most cases and never led to a cycle of dependency. If we were to try again to formalize such a safety net, it would have to be done with strict lifetime limits as were imposed by the Welfare Reform Act of 1996 and also done as a kind of insurance, much like unemployment insurance. There would also have to be strict requirements such as you finished your K-12 education and participated in required job training programs.

            Retirement security is a tougher nut to crack for too many reasons to go into here. Suffice it to say for now that it has to be privatized and in a way which guarantees, as much as is possible in the real world, a reasonable return on investment with reasonable risk. Done correctly, it could provide a phenomenal amount of investment capital which could fuel significant economic expansion and job creation. Getting that past the Democrats will be damn tough, however, as was proven by Bush's modest efforts at partially privatizing SS.

             
          • Pete posted at 5:33 pm on Wed, Mar 2, 2011.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            JennyDoe..."Pete you gotta do better than articles from the female version of Ann Coulter."

            Ignore the commentary if it challenges your preconceived notions, the pictures and videos speak for themselves.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 5:20 pm on Wed, Mar 2, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            Here's the list of Obama's top contributors in 2008. Apparently a lot of corporations don't know that they're supposed to only contribute to Republicans:

            University of California $1,591,395
            Goldman Sachs $994,795
            Harvard University $854,747
            Microsoft Corp $833,617
            Google Inc $803,436
            Citigroup Inc $701,290
            JPMorgan Chase & Co $695,132
            Time Warner $590,084
            Sidley Austin LLP $588,598
            Stanford University $586,557
            National Amusements Inc $551,683
            UBS AG $543,219
            Wilmerhale Llp $542,618
            Skadden, Arps et al $530,839
            IBM Corp $528,822
            Columbia University $528,302
            Morgan Stanley $514,881
            General Electric $499,130
            US Government Workers $494,820
            Latham & Watkins $493,835

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 5:10 pm on Wed, Mar 2, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            Benznd123: ...while Republicans have Corporations, spurred on by the Supreme Court, to finance their elections.
            ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            The SCOTUS ruling in Citizens United v. FEC did NOT allow corporations to finance elections without limit, in spite of popular liberal claims that it did. Campaign contribution limitations which have long been in effect remain in effect.

            What the court's ruling did say was that McCain-Feingold imposed an unconstitutional limitation upon corporations' spending to fund "theme" messages/ads while not imposing the same limits upon 501(c) groups such as MoveOn.org.

            Soros has contributed more than $400M to liberal groups such as MoveOn.org in the last three election cycles, highlighting the unfairness in McCain-Feingold that allowed such a "loophole".

            Permitting "free speech" to corporations is only right, especially considering how heavily taxed they are and the fact that they can't vote. Taxation without representation led to our war with England. All SCOTUS did was give them a voice.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 4:53 pm on Wed, Mar 2, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            Rob123: ...start clicking the dollars!
            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Total cost of the nanny state for the last ten years: $23,000,000,000,000+

            You're focused on a nose bleed while ignoring the severed artery.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 4:50 pm on Wed, Mar 2, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            Benznd123: And HTC, the money paid to union members circulates right back into the local economy....
            ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            If only it were that simple and actually worked that way.

            Nobel Laureate economist Milton Friedman demonstrated that, when unions succeed in obtaining wages and benefits above what the market would eitherwise bear, it actually has a negative effect on the economy as it reduces the number of jobs, capital for expansion and even exerts downward pricing pressure on non-union jobs.

            The negative effects are worsened by "free trade" which exposes manufacturers with high labor costs to competition from companies in low labor cost countries, ultimately forcing them to leave our shores just to survive in the global marketplace.

            "Collective bargaining" by public employees is the worst case of all as the "other side" consists of politicians who aren't spending their own money, unlike a business in the same situation, and they're owned by the unions whose contributions and election time volunteer efforts they depend upon for their own survival.

            It's the worst kind of conflict of interest. Furthermore, government has a monopoly on many of the services it provides, so when public "servants" strike, they have the taxpayer by the you-know-whats.

            These are the very reasons why FDR was opposed to collective bargaining by public employees and his position is the only one in the taxpayers' best interests. The fact that so many public employees fare much better than their neighbors who are picking up the tab is proof that FDR was right.

            You are correct in pointing out how important the unions, especially the public employees unions, are to the Democratic party. The unions contributed over $400M just to getting Obama elected. This fact highlights why collective bargaining by public employees should be banned. No one's actually representing the taxpayer in this picture.

            But you overlook another major source of Democratic political power than has little to do with contributions (at least political contributions) and that's the beneficiaries of the nanny state. With 60% of Americans paying little or nothing in income taxes and three-quarters of those actually receiving subsidies of some kind, the Democrats have built a party entirely around buying Paul's vote with Peter's money.

            This is why they they're fighting to preserve collective bargaining by public employees and resisting any effort to reduce entitlements and public assistance. Without those two things, there is no Democratic party.

            The Democratic party is a little more than a band of thieves who've built their power and fortunes upon the principle of robbing from one group to buy the votes of another.

            Nothing honorable there....

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 4:23 pm on Wed, Mar 2, 2011.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1562

            HTC "Yeah, it's definitely got to be that $200B a year spent on Iraq and Afghanistan that's killing us - not the $2.5T spent each year on entitlements."

            Don't get me wrong C, I DO NOT support many government entitlements, especially the out of control and abused welfare programs that support individuals for years without requiring them to get an effing job! Then families from other countries come here and usurp our wealth as a lifestyle, I do not want this and I wish someone in our government would do something about it. However, when those elitist, corporate loving Republicans get into office they do NOTHING! Same as the Democrats, you know, the SAME THING!
            I don't think of social security as you do, because workers pay into this system during their working careers and they actually paid for it. What is wrong with SS is the greedy politician b@stards that allowed the SS account to be raped and pillaged (by anyone with a pet project) and that has caused most of the problem. I firmly believe that we need a system that lends a helping hand to our neighbors when needed (which was the original intention, plus a retirement security for individuals who do not understand investing) but I do not accept the cheating that has ruined the system and has become the norm. Entitlements need to be reviewed one at a time and revised to end the corruption and cheating. Next the whole "cheating the system" used by everyone in the medical industry needs to be exposed and ended! Individuals who have been cheating should have to pay back all the money they got and then go to a special white collar area (Bubba's room) inside the prisons for at least a few years.

            HTC "Meanwhile, the GAO issues a report identifying $200B a year in waste and duplication in so-called "discretionary" spending and the Democrats are bitchin' about the GOP's effort to eliminate a mere $40B of that."
            You and I both know this never changes from one party to the other, This is where benznd123's diversions theory really comes into play, because we are ALL being played. The sooner WE (all Americans) figure this out the sooner we can take back our country. Until then, you can beat me on the head, then i'll beat you on the head, you beat me on the head, I beat you on the head, hey this is fun, huh.

            My biggest problem with Republican ideology is that when they are done, there are people dead in the gutter, and I cannot accept that happening while I am still alive. It's called compassion, and I agree with you that compassion has to be distributed by using our brains, not ala RobinHood. We cannot ignore our fellow man in need, lest we become as those under tyrannical suppression.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 2:26 pm on Wed, Mar 2, 2011.

            Rob123 Posts: 6574

            benznd123 posted at 1:46 pm on Wed, Mar 2, 2011.

            Knowledge!

            http://costofwar.com/en/
            Allow this to embed, and start clicking the dollars!

             
          • benznd123 posted at 2:19 pm on Wed, Mar 2, 2011.

            benznd123 Posts: 222

            jennydoe, we all know that diversions can be utilized by any and all with the need to justify the means to an end. Remember LBJ and his mushroom cloud. Diverted attention from Goldwater's message. And it scared people. W used the same issue of mushroom clouds to divert attention from his war. We have the Governor of WI using budget shortfalls to divert attention from his union busting activities. The unions are the ONLY large source of campaign cash for Democrats, while Republicans have Corporations, spurred on by the Supreme Court, to finance their elections. Do away with unions, and the Republicans run the table.

            Now if it was only as easy as bill39 indicated it could be. Just don't use money in elections. Money is useless unless bill39, it has the ability to divert the masses attention from the message. HOW would poor people vote Republican? Really! Make it look like they are going to lose their guns! Make it look like the army is being dissed. Oh, and then socialism! Islam! Scare them and feed them $hit. So bill39, you asked me not to call you stupid? It the foo @hits, wear it. Otherwise, don't take offense at comments not aimed at you.

            And HTC, the money paid to union members circulates right back into the local economy. Decent homes means building materials and labor and taxes for community projects like roads and community centers and fire dept and police dept and good public schools which attract potential employees to a community. And, best of all, for individuals such as yourself, people with enough money to buy your products. It is simply circulated (redistribution of wealth) within the community and country as they also buy cars. Be careful of what you wish for............

             
          • benznd123 posted at 1:46 pm on Wed, Mar 2, 2011.

            benznd123 Posts: 222

            Thomas Friedman:

            "While Facebook has gotten all the face time in Egypt, Tunisia and Bahrain, don’t forget Google Earth, which began roiling Bahraini politics in 2006. A big issue in Bahrain, particularly among Shiite men who want to get married and build homes, is the unequal distribution of land. On Nov. 27, 2006, on the eve of parliamentary elections in Bahrain, The Washington Post ran this report from there: “Mahmood, who lives in a house with his parents, four siblings and their children, said he became even more frustrated when he looked up Bahrain on Google Earth and saw vast tracts of empty land, while tens of thousands of mainly poor Shiites were squashed together in small, dense areas. ‘We are 17 people crowded in one small house, like many people in the southern district,’ he said. ‘And you see on Google how many palaces there are and how the al-Khalifas [the Sunni ruling family] have the rest of the country to themselves.’ Bahraini activists have encouraged people to take a look at the country on Google Earth, and they have set up a special user group whose members have access to more than 40 images of royal palaces.”

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 1:40 pm on Wed, Mar 2, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            Rebel Rouser: Also, once Americans realize that the main reason our country is collapsing financially is due to the cost of this war, these numbers will change significantly.
            ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Yeah, it's definitely got to be that $200B a year spent on Iraq and Afghanistan that's killing us - not the $2.5T spent each year on entitlements.

            It's that new liberal concept: leveraged destruction.

            Meanwhile, the GAO issues a report identifying $200B a year in waste and duplication in so-called "discretionary" spending and the Democrats are bitchin' about the GOP's effort to eliminate a mere $40B of that.

            Obama appears on Fox and admits that it's entitlements that are killing us but, being the Coward in Chief that he is, refuses to lead and take on that issue, baiting the GOP to tackle it even though Bush already tried that once and got crucified by the lamestream media and Democratic politicians. Meanwhile, he submits a $3.7T budget as though there's no fiscal emergency whatsoever.

            The Democrats will be the death of this country yet.

             
          • russ25 posted at 1:35 pm on Wed, Mar 2, 2011.

            russ25 Posts: 195

            bill39 , and my guess is Mr. Wagner did n't know where Mr. Bush was born . Thats why he side stepped that question . Lets focus on productive things like jobs and the ecconomy .

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 1:30 pm on Wed, Mar 2, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            jennydoe: Last week, the protests became a proxy for liberal anger at corporate power in general and the Kochs in particular. This week it's becoming a proxy for anti-Fox News anger.
            ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Classic example of the diversion/redirection that Benz was talking about.

            The protests are really about preserving the power to continue shaking down the taxpayer as public employees consistently give themselves a sweeter deal than that of their boss, the taxpayer.

            In this case the diversions are "corporate power", the Kochs and FoxNews. It's an effective tool as even a majority of the public hasn't figured out yet that they're supporting their "servant's" power to take more from their wallets.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 1:24 pm on Wed, Mar 2, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            jennydoe: I don't believe any of the other networks have had any problems. Nor have they fabricated the statistics.
            ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Well, you certainly haven't been paying attention, then.

            Not only have some major news anchors been let go (e.g., Dan Rather) for "distorted" journalism, but so have many newspaper journalists, especially at the New York Times. CNN's fired a few as well.

            If you look at the whole O'Reilly segment we're discussing now, you'll see that there was no misrepresentation concerning what's been going on in WI. Also, you keep confusing O'Reilly, Beck et al with news reporting. The former are all opinion shows. If you want to start calling that "news", then I can quickly grab countless videos from the major news outlets that are opinion pieces but are nonetheless incorrect and we'll call them "liars" also.

            There's one reason why everyone seems out to discredit Fox News and that's because they're the only one's not running cover for Obama and his party. Fox is being subjected to the same crap that Goebbels gave to his opposition.

            As for violence at the current protests, several instances have been caught on tape including one where a cop on horseback actually witnessed the attack but did nothing. Maybe because they're union too?

            I only know of one instance where 10 Tea Party protestors were arrested and that was for refusing to leave the Capitol Building where they were protesting outside of Pelosi's office. So why aren't the hundreds of protestors in WI being arrested for the same thing? They've refused to leave even though they've been ordered to.


             
          • Rob123 posted at 1:22 pm on Wed, Mar 2, 2011.

            Rob123 Posts: 6574

            Rebel Rouser posted at 11:23 am on Wed, Mar 2, 2011.

            russ25 posted at 11:44 am on Wed, Mar 2, 2011.


            Good posts, gentlemen!

             
          • bill39 posted at 1:18 pm on Wed, Mar 2, 2011.

            bill39 Posts: 1039

            I would say cooper is the fool if he misstated the purpose of the 14th amendment.

             
          • russ25 posted at 11:44 am on Wed, Mar 2, 2011.

            russ25 Posts: 195

            Cooper didn't make Wagner look like a fool ,he did that all by him self. This cannot be the biggest issue facing us today. The Montana GOP is making us look like fools in the national media with all their side stepping b***s***. Focus on the real issues like jobs and the ecconomy. We can worry about this crap if oprah runs someone in 2012.

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 11:23 am on Wed, Mar 2, 2011.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1562

            "Most Republicans (55%) believe the U.S. should have become involved in Iraq, but most Democrats (71%) and voters not affiliated with either party (56%) feel the opposite way."

            Ask the parents and family members of the 4,439 soldiers who were killed in Iraq if they think the war was a success or failure. Also, once Americans realize that the main reason our country is collapsing financially is due to the cost of this war, these numbers will change significantly.

            Not to mention the cost to American tax payers for the next forty to fifty years taking care of the disability of over 100,000 men and women with war related injuries (and that number is sure to continue to go up).

            All of this so Georgie Porgie could avenge his daddy? We killed well over 1 million Iraqis so that Saddam wouldn't kill them, goooood ID.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 11:14 am on Wed, Mar 2, 2011.

            jennydoe Posts: 2197

            JEB, haven't got time to research every tea party, but what readily comes to mind is the Rand Paul senate debate when a MoveOn member got her head stomped, guess that wasn't an official rally.
            I am sure most of the tea members are peaceful loving creatures sitting in their wheelchairs and smiling.
            gGod Bless America!

            Good to see ya up and about today!

             
          • Rob123 posted at 10:37 am on Wed, Mar 2, 2011.

            Rob123 Posts: 6574

            http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/the_war_in_iraq/51_say_u_s_shouldn_t_have_become_involved_in_iraq

            Good to hear from you, JB. I was worried that my olde buddy had been zipped up in ye olde body bag. Glad to see your still kicking.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 10:28 am on Wed, Mar 2, 2011.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            Jenny: "That does not make a crowd of 100000 protesters violent and/or hateful. Not 1 arrest. The tea party cannot say that about their gatherings."

            Please post your stats on arrests at T.E.A. Party rallies and cite the source.....???

             
          • jennydoe posted at 10:25 am on Wed, Mar 2, 2011.

            jennydoe Posts: 2197

            Posted Wednesday, March 02, 2011 11:00 AM | By David Weigel
            State Sen. Chris Larson, one of the younger members of the Wisconsin senate exodus and the one who does the most media interviews, posts a Facebook note:


            FOX "NEWS" keeps calling for an interview regarding the riots and violent protests at the Capitol in response to a "modest" budget bill. I'm fairly certain they are covering an alternate universe all on their own somewhere.

            Last week, the protests became a proxy for liberal anger at corporate power in general and the Kochs in particular. This week it's becoming a proxy for anti-Fox News anger.


             
          • JBSTONE posted at 10:22 am on Wed, Mar 2, 2011.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            Bronco: "Man, Rob. Magister Ludi. Some of the best mind candy ever. Have to reread it now, 30 years older. Thanks."

            See if you can do it without moving your lips this time......

             
          • jennydoe posted at 10:06 am on Wed, Mar 2, 2011.

            jennydoe Posts: 2197

            I will give you the fact that some signs have nasty words on them. All the signs I have seen were spelled correctly though. Hitler moustaches have been popular for, oh, since Hitler. Cheney on the Senate Floor said the "F" word. That does not make a crowd of 100000 protesters violent and/or hateful. Not 1 arrest. The tea party cannot say that about their gatherings. I believe that minions are catching on and classifying Fox News as distorted news. Perhaps last week when they told their viewers that 61% oppose unions instead of correctly stating that 61% were in favor of unions it hit real close to their hearts? I don't believe any of the other networks have had any problems. Nor have they fabricated the statistics. Fox News is losing its credibility (I'll pretend it had some) pretty darn quickly and there is nothing I can do about it.

            Pete you gotta do better than articles from the female version of Ann Coulter.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 9:44 am on Wed, Mar 2, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            jennydoe: Pete - Union thugs? I suppose if you wacthed the O'Reily factor you may at first think that, but the closer you looked you would realize that palm trees don't grow in Madison. Hence you would discredit the piece. But Poor Mike Tobin anyway.
            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            If you watched the whole segment of O'Reilly you would have realized that they were also talking about the protests going on in many other states' capitals in support of the WI unions. They were not talking exclusively about the protests in WI. Hence, the accompanying video shows clips from other capitals, looping through repeatedly, as they're talking.

            This is just another example of the left taking something out of context so that they can stir up trouble, all built around a lie.

            There has been violence in many of those other protests and FOX's reporters have frequently been intentionally drowned out by "protestors" with other "protestors" inserting their signs in front of the camera, not so that they can be read, but all part of an effort to prevent the FOX team from doing their job.

            These "protestors", however, are such morons that they don't see the irony in their trying to suppress someone's free speech rights while they pretend that they're there to stand up for civil rights.

            Never did we see Tea Party rallies out of control like this nor have Tea Partiers ever tried to prevent CNN or anyone else from covering their events.

            The left is home to the worst of the knuckle draggers and we're seeing them on display once again.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 9:39 am on Wed, Mar 2, 2011.

            Rob123 Posts: 6574

            So Hoss, how Old are you?

            "Heads should roll and soon. Everything he has done needs to be nullified and now before he totally ruins the country!!"

            Robespierre could have used you on his jury.

             
          • Bronco posted at 9:38 am on Wed, Mar 2, 2011.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            Man, Rob. Magister Ludi. Some of the best mind candy ever. Have to reread it now, 30 years older. Thanks.

             
          • Bronco posted at 9:29 am on Wed, Mar 2, 2011.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            The Republican Propaganda Machine chugs along.

            Mike Huckabee gets it all wrong. Returns to 'birther' roots? No. Obama posted birth cert before elections.

            From today's Christian Science Monitor

            Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee suggested in a radio interview that President Barack Obama's childhood in Kenya shaped his worldview — even though Obama did not visit Kenya until he was in his 20s.

            The potential Republican presidential candidate told New York radio station WOR on Monday that Obama's youth led him to resent the West, which he said explains why, in Huckabee's view, Obama's foreign policy differs so greatly from that of his predecessors.

            "One thing that I do know is his having grown up in Kenya, his view of the Brits, for example, (is) very different than the average American," Huckabee said, pointing to Obama's decision in 2009 to remove a bust of former Prime Minister Winston Churchill from the Oval Office.

            He failed to note that Obama replaced the Oval Office fixture with a bust of one of his American heroes, President Abraham Lincoln, and moved the Churchill bust to the White House residence.

            "The bust of Winston Churchill, a great insult to the British," Huckabee said. "But then if you think about it, his perspective as growing up in Kenya with a Kenyan father and grandfather . he probably grew up hearing that the British were a bunch of imperialists who persecuted his grandfather."

            Obama's grandfather, Hussein Onyango Obama, was detained in a 1952 uprising against British colonial rule in Kenya. Huckabee said childhood stories of the Mau Mau rebellion would lead President Obama to want to remove from the Oval Office the bust of Churchill, who ordered a crackdown against that uprising.

            The executive director of Huckabee's political action committee said the former governor misspoke.

            "When the governor mentioned he wanted to know more about the president, he wasn't talking about the president's place of birth — the governor believes the president was born in Hawaii," Hogan Gidley said. "The governor would, however, like to know more about where President Obama's liberal policies come from and what else the president plans to do to this country — as do most Americans."

            Gidley said Huckabee meant to reference Obama's childhood in Indonesia, where he lived from the ages of 5 to 10. Gidley didn't explain the connection to the Mau Mau uprising.

            Obama was born in Hawaii in 1961 to a mother from Kansas, and a father from Kenya whom he would barely know and write in his memoir he had met only once. He spent the first five years of his life in Hawaii and then moved with his since-divorced mother and her new husband to Indonesia. At the age of 10, he returned to Hawaii to live with his maternal grandparents on Oahu until he started his undergraduate degree in Los Angeles and completed it in New York City.

            "The first time I came to Kenya was in 1987," Obama said at the University of Nairobi in 2006. "I had just finished three years of work as a community organizer in low-income neighborhoods of Chicago, and was about to enroll in law school. My sister, Auma, was teaching that year at this university, and so I came to stay with her for a month."

            Many conservative activists believe — and some have unsuccessfully filed lawsuits to prove — that Obama is a Kenyan who does not meet the Constitution's citizenship requirement. A Washington Post-ABC News poll last year found 14 percent of Americans say without prompting that they believe Obama was born in another country. That number rose to 20 percent when those with no opinion were given that as an option.

            During his 2008 presidential campaign, Obama posted a copy of his birth certificate on his website to confront persistent rumors. It did little to assuage skeptics who are convinced by Internet rumors and conservative talk radio hosts that Obama was raised in his father's homeland.

            Huckabee himself has called these suggestions fringe theories that distract from the serious policy disagreements with Obama. During appearances for his book tour, he dismissed the so-called "birther" ideas.

            And on Monday, just a few moments after he asserted Obama's Kenyan upbringing, Huckabee returned to what had been his standard rhetoric on the question of his birth certificate.

            "The only reason I'm not as confident that there's something about the birth certificate ... is because I know the Clintons and believe me, they have lots of investigators out on him, and I'm convinced if there was anything that they could have found on that, they would have found it, and I promise they would have used it," Huckabee said.

            Hillary Rodham Clinton campaigned against Obama during the 2008 Democratic primary. Her husband, former President Bill Clinton, is a former governor of Arkansas, like Huckabee.

             
          • Oldhoss posted at 8:33 am on Wed, Mar 2, 2011.

            Oldhoss Posts: 37

            Anyone who wants a job such as president should have no problem producing a birth certificate. Obama cannot not, will not, and refuses to. Why? Because he cant! He is illegal. I hope soon it is proved, and our congressmen have the guts to throw him out and have a special election for a new leader. I have to show my birth certificate, and other forms of ID for most things. It was assumed he was legal. Heads should roll and soon. Everything he has done needs to be nullified and now before he totally ruins the country!! Who said it could not happen here????

             
          • bill39 posted at 8:30 am on Wed, Mar 2, 2011.

            bill39 Posts: 1039

            Benz, what percent of wealth did the top 1% control in 1920. Big money has always controlled the world,(be it horses, camels, gold, paper money) until our constitution was formed. Why not get togeather, left and right, and vote in people to the legislatures, that big money doesnt control. Then, when the new legislators get bought off, elect new ones, to repeal bad laws passed, simple as pie. Please dont call me a simpleton.

             
          • Pete posted at 7:04 am on Wed, Mar 2, 2011.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            JennyDoe...the examples of union thuggery in Wisconsin are numerous and obvious and need no corroboration from FoxNews. The only thing more obvious is your blatant hypocrisy, especially considering your history of disingenuous nail-biting over the teaparty folks. Of course your sanctimonious attitude is standard fare of the "regressive left". See links below.

            http://michellemalkin.com/2011/02/19/photo-gallery-what-big-labor-protesters-are-teaching-kids-language-warning/

            http://michellemalkin.com/2011/03/01/mob-rule-video-unhinged-crowd-corners-wisconsin-gop-senator-shouting-fk-you-shame/

            http://www.conservativesforamerica.com/big-government/video-from-wisconsin-protest-reveals-the-violence-and-hatred-of-the-left

             
          • bill39 posted at 5:55 am on Wed, Mar 2, 2011.

            bill39 Posts: 1039

            Nice try jenny

             
          • jennydoe posted at 4:33 am on Wed, Mar 2, 2011.

            jennydoe Posts: 2197

            Pete - Union thugs?
            I suppose if you wacthed the O'Reily factor you may at first think that, but the closer you looked you would realize that palm trees don't grow in Madison. Hence you would discredit the piece. But Poor Mike Tobin anyway.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RClJ6vK9x_4&feature=player_embedded

             
          • Rob123 posted at 2:35 am on Wed, Mar 2, 2011.

            Rob123 Posts: 6574

            Benz: " I would meander through the classroom, surreptitiously glancing at everyone's desk and productivity or attention to task. I likened myself to an artist."

            I sit at my home-office desk, "working" while reading different newspapers, but my mind keeps wandering back to you, walking the isles of HTC's high school, he the poor, smart over achiever.....you the teacher in full drag nunnery garb teaching the joy of sublimation and good behavior. Stopping at HTC's desk, you look down at his calculations, your 5 o'clock shadow already showing inside your Nun's Head Covering, and with authority and a love that chills, tell him in no uncertain terms "Answers are a dime a dozen! I want to see your proofs!". He lowers his eyes, with a submissive "Yes, Sister Mathematica!" Across the isle, I reflect on Hesse's "The Glass Bead Game", but dream of recess.

            P.S. Gas and Diesel took another pop up last night.....

            PSS..Suze Rotolo 1943-2011 The girl with Bob Dylan on the Album Cover "The Freewheelin Bob Dylan", 1963.
            "Before too long, they moved in together in an apartment on West 4th Street. Ms Rotolo wrote that as Mr. Dylan's fame grew, their relationship diminished. "I was young, I was still forming myself, but I did know I wasn't a musician, nor was I a musician's 'chick' " she wrote.
            In 1964, they separated for good. "

             
          • Rob123 posted at 1:13 am on Wed, Mar 2, 2011.

            Rob123 Posts: 6574

            HTC: "I don't know what your friend's issues were but I know several people that have been working there for over a year now....."

            I know many over there too....However, my friend was a 55 year old with his own over-the-road truck, nice house, runs a clean operation, etc., and thought instead of hitting his head against the proverbial wall of being an over-the-road trucker would get a high paying job in the boom town atmosphere. A little 'recapturing of one's youth' I am sure (should have bought a two seat convertible sports car!). But sadly, he realized that sometimes wisdom and experience doesn't sleep well on the front seat of a water truck, nor trying to relieve yourself in a 25MPH wind with a -35F wind chill, on the nice days. Sometimes, young, strong, limber bodies trump experience and wisdom.

            HTC: "Don't forget meaningful reform to our screwed-up workers comp system, eliminating the business equipment tax and a Right To Work law. All big job producers also."
            OK,,,,issues since Gov Stan Stephens, at least. It would be nice to finally fix it (them), instead of little bandaides and then kicking it (them) down the road. Don't hold your breath! A lot of history.


             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 9:35 pm on Tue, Mar 1, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            Rob123: I think Montana would be better served if people forgot about HB 205 and paid attention to SB 317, and pass it. Jobs! Jobs! Jobs!
            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Don't forget meaningful reform to our screwed-up workers comp system, eliminating the business equipment tax and a Right To Work law. All big job producers also.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 9:31 pm on Tue, Mar 1, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            Rob123: Boom Town baloney, unless you own the mineral rights. He made it 3 weeks, and left.
            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            I don't know what your friend's issues were but I know several people that have been working there for over a year now and making money hands over fist. Some are truck drivers; some are electricians or plumbers; a couple are geologists; three are carpenters.

            Most are now making it their permanent residence. Only two still hope to return to the Flathead.

             
          • benznd123 posted at 9:29 pm on Tue, Mar 1, 2011.

            benznd123 Posts: 222

            Geez Pedro, I see you have come out to play. Yes, touch football only.

            Bottom line! All of this cr@p we focus on? When young, I sat in many classrooms observing students who were "acting out." The cure? Extinguish disruptive behavior through reinforcement of nondisruptive behavior. Starting with timed reinforcers to intermittent , or combining a clicker with a verbal command. Whatever the problem, BF Skinner had the answer. Focus on the behavior. To be honest, I sucked at it.

            I was educated at a University that followed the a more "gentile" approach to working with kids or adults. Being the gifted intellectual, I applied what I learned, Skinnerian and Rogerian, and developed a hybrid. Oh my mother was so proud. Actually, neither she nor my dad ever knew just what I did. Oops left an opening for THC.

            This is leading somewhere, so hang in there, if so inclined. When asked to observe a student with disruptive behavior, I focused on the child and not the behavior. I would meander through the classroom, surreptitiously glancing at everyone's desk and productivity or attention to task. I likened myself to an artist. In my stupendous mind, I painted the parts of that student (just figuratively JB and it was washable anyway) I could identify through my time spent. With attention to detail, I was able to paint a portrait of that child. You see, behavior is a diversion. Taken from a benevolent perspective, it shields one from deficiencies. Malevolently, when a child pukes in the lunch room, no one notices the extra cheese taken from the distracted students. Create a diversion.

            Mr. Cooper is a diversion, as are birth certificates, health care, abortion, education, mass transit, government regulations, guns, church, blah blah. I need to take the fork in the road right now as we are entering the spin zone.

            Limited resources. There is only so much to go around, right? We all are aware of the income discrepancy? Not since the late 20's have we had such an abomination. Limited resources. 1% has 20% of all wealth in this country. Or, the top 400 families control as much wealth as the bottom 50% of all wage earners in this country. Not a good thing. The system of capitalism has its flaws so-to-speak.

            How do the rich keep their wealth? Create diversions. Make sure "they" give students a spoonful of ipecac prior to lunch to ensure the distraction ergo continuation of disproportionate amounts of cheese. It is not the puking, or Anderson Cooper, or da church ladee, or abortion, or birth certificates. Diversions.

            The scare? Too many simple folk focus on the puke while the cheese is stolen? "Good night and good luck."

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 9:28 pm on Tue, Mar 1, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            benznd123, I think you and Rob are referring to "fracking", not "fraking."

            Without it, Pickens' natural gas dream goes away very quickly. And let's be honest here - the man will make billions if he succeeds in moving us in that direction. It's not altruism which drives him. I don't have a problem with that but let's keep it honest.

            Do you have a link to that article you referred to? I've not heard of "radiation" associated with fracking outside of the occasional use of radioactive sand mixed in to track the fractures along the wellbore. It's very low level and nonsoluble. The EPA says it's safe.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 9:21 pm on Tue, Mar 1, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            RLS, I agree as well. It's a small but important thing that we can do to help ensure that the election process meets Constitutional requirements.

            Perhaps more importantly, we need to address voter fraud which is becoming a major issue. The voter registration process needs to be tightened up substantially.

            Then there's the electronic voting machines commonly used today which have opened the door to voting fraud at a level that most people can't comprehend. Fraud that would have required dozens of coconspirators to pull off can now be done by just a couple of perps and hidden far more easily.

            Then there's the guys that maintain those voting machines - typically members of the SEIU - and some of them felons. But Diebold gets 'em cheap.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 9:13 pm on Tue, Mar 1, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            Gabby Johnson: And my basic civics class taught me that state law has no jurisdiction over federal offices -- that's why term limits were never applied to members of the U.S. House or Senate.
            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Tell that to the progressives who, to this day, insist that SCOTUS stole the election from Gore and gave it to Bush.

             
          • Pete posted at 8:13 pm on Tue, Mar 1, 2011.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Benznd...Glad to see you're still alive and kicking.

             
          • Pete posted at 8:10 pm on Tue, Mar 1, 2011.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            JennyDoe..."Rick, while we might be able to ensure that we are being served legally, I don't think we will ever be able to ensure we are being served honestly and fairly. Nice thought though."

            Good point.

             
          • Pete posted at 8:09 pm on Tue, Mar 1, 2011.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Rick...I agree.

             
          • Pete posted at 8:06 pm on Tue, Mar 1, 2011.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Gabby..."who needs a mob?"

            Maybe you should ask the union thugs in Wisconsin that question.

             
          • Gabby Johnson posted at 6:20 pm on Tue, Mar 1, 2011.

            Gabby Johnson Posts: 2

            I'll tell you what I think is a crackpot idea, that the managing editor of a daily newspaper would align himself to the irrational fringe of any political persuasion.
            And my basic civics class taught me that state law has no jurisdiction over federal offices -- that's why term limits were never applied to members of the U.S. House or Senate.
            Apparently Mr. Meile and the majority of the current Montana House members were asleep during civics class.
            With community leaders like these, who needs a mob?

             
          • jennydoe posted at 6:17 pm on Tue, Mar 1, 2011.

            jennydoe Posts: 2197

            In the debate over whether Wisconsin state workers should have the right to collectively bargain for better benefits, there is at least one group that sides with Gov. Scott Walker -- people wealthy enough that they probably don't need collective bargaining rights themselves.

            http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/03/pew-poll-only-wealthiest-income-bracket-sides-with-gov-walker-over-unions.php?ref=fpi#

             
          • jennydoe posted at 6:06 pm on Tue, Mar 1, 2011.

            jennydoe Posts: 2197

            benz - Only Bronco and I have been kicked off this site that I am aware of,
            ---------------
            I came real close once...it will never happen again.....

            Rob - I had an underemployed friend go over to N D. the first of Jan to work in the fields. He was driving one of those vacuum-water trucks.......18 hour days, and absolutely screwed up with no one really knowing 'the big picture', cold, dirty, $800.00+ rent for an old 5th Wheel trailer, sit in the company truck getting paid and not moving for 12+ hours......Boom Town baloney, unless you own the mineral rights. He made it 3 weeks, and left.
            --------------------------
            so the wsj is distorting the scenario? go figure.
            http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703803904576152630710927512.html?mod=WSJ_article_LatestHeadlines

            passing SB 317 would be nice.

            Rick, while we might be able to ensure that we are being served legally, I don't think we will ever be able to ensure we are being served honestly and fairly. Nice thought though.


             
          • Rob123 posted at 5:09 pm on Tue, Mar 1, 2011.

            Rob123 Posts: 6574

            Why not a law "If 51% of the voting public votes for you, your it."? Of course, that would imply a Living Constitution, and Change. Certainly, after the 2008 hiccup over the Hawaii Birth Certificate the 4th Estate will Vette all Candidates with due deligence? Of course, then the problem that some have concerning "is the 4th estate a 5th Column" raises it's ugly Corporate head. Or, in the case of Montana passing such a law, no one comes to campaign, and all the Ad Folks are out $millions.

            I think Montana would be better served if people forgot about HB 205 and paid attention to SB 317, and pass it. Jobs! Jobs! Jobs!

             
          • Rick Spencer posted at 4:03 pm on Tue, Mar 1, 2011.

            Rick Spencer Posts: 405

            "...the facts about House Bill 205, which would require candidates for president and Congress to provide Montana with proof that they meet the U.S. Constitution’s requirements for eligibility to these offices."

            Is there anyone out there that disagrees with this requirement in order to become a candidate for the stated offices in Montana, or for that matter, any state in the union? Since there has been no procedure, it would seem to me a pretty important one for the citizens of the country to feel ensured that they are being served legally, honestly, and fairly. Maybe, every state should have this law and maybe Congress should demand it. That is the point that readers seem to be dodging in their comments. RLS

             
          • Rob123 posted at 3:57 pm on Tue, Mar 1, 2011.

            Rob123 Posts: 6574

            I had an underemployed friend go over to N D. the first of Jan to work in the fields. He was driving one of those vacuum-water trucks.......18 hour days, and absolutely screwed up with no one really knowing 'the big picture', cold, dirty, $800.00+ rent for an old 5th Wheel trailer, sit in the company truck getting paid and not moving for 12+ hours......Boom Town baloney, unless you own the mineral rights. He made it 3 weeks, and left.

             
          • benznd123 posted at 3:35 pm on Tue, Mar 1, 2011.

            benznd123 Posts: 222

            Just read an article on fraking. Radiation cannot be processed out of contaminated water, as of this date. Contaminated water is loaded in trucks and taken to water treatment plants then released into rivers with no "govt oversite" as to safe radiation levels. People living downstream of untreated released high radiation water have no choice of drinking water, unless you have money to purchase bottled water. I saw the same interview on Morning Joe with Pickens. I like the guy and he is doing what he can to help reduce our dependence blah blah. Nothing is ever perfect. Perhaps we can take all this contaminated water to Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Arizona. They really would welcome it to show us how to handle this type of environmental joke. I don't have any kin there, and I don't live there and surely the fraken H2O would be dumped near irrelevant communities. Think I am right on this one.

             
          • Bronco posted at 3:28 pm on Tue, Mar 1, 2011.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            Thanks, benznd. I'll send it soon.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 3:14 pm on Tue, Mar 1, 2011.

            Rob123 Posts: 6574

            http://www.truth-out.org/support-fat-cats68119

            Boone Pickens put it well the other morning.....If the 18 Million Big Rig Diesels running down the hiway everyday would switch to Natural Gas, 1/2 of the 5 Million Barrells a day of OPEC oil we import would be cut. The cost of each conversion would be about $60,000.00, which would be a tax credit...."business repair-upgrade".....the cost of a fully taxed equivalent BTU gallon of Natural Gas would cost around $1.25+ a gallon less than a gallon of Diesel (probably even a greater spread in the coming months).
            I've been rooting for it for years....I do, however, have some serious questions on Fraking, and the chemicals used. Their 'propreitary' nature is, in my opinion, hogwash.
            As for public cars and self service refueling, wow! Too many years of seeing 'really, really Stupid' to have such rigs outside of Fleets and Professional drivers.

             
          • benznd123 posted at 3:04 pm on Tue, Mar 1, 2011.

            benznd123 Posts: 222

            Premium in Grand Forks is $3.39. That is close to what I have paid all along. But I paid $8.00 more in this small community that is the only town to carry 91 octane. I guess it is supply and demand. The only station within a 50 mile radius to carry 91. Thanks

             
          • libra42 posted at 2:53 pm on Tue, Mar 1, 2011.

            libra42 Posts: 461

            Rob123, what's your take on nat gas . We have more of it than we can deal with, it's cheap, it's domestic and relatively clean.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 1:44 pm on Tue, Mar 1, 2011.

            Rob123 Posts: 6574

            Benz....It was another ugly day in the Oil Patch, in my opinion. (The German NYSE-NYMEX closed up $2.25 on Crude, 9 cents up on gasoline and 8.5 cents up on diesel) Fear and what ifs......coupled to High Speed Computers. Supply and Demand are fine, SO FAR. Southern Europe, not so good. Oil disruptions plus Refugees. Like Italy and Greece need Refugees! Cushing, Ok., is so full of crude they are out of tanks!

            $3.90 for 91 Octane in Grand Forks seems high? Full Service without a Senior Discount? (-: I would think $3.59-69 range today?

            It's ugly.....I put a load of diesel into a station this morning, with my cost 5 cents higher than my retail pump price.
            Will start selling that stuff tomorrow, so up it goes.

            No real answers.....One needs to try and keep up with the price spikes, because the next load will cost extra; plus make wages and pay utilities and any bank loans,etc.. Then when it all collapses, try to make a profit by dragging ones feet on the way down. On the way up, busy stations feel the pain the most. On the way down, slow stations take it in the shorts.

            google MSN Autos-Gas Prices. Updated daily, nationwide retail pricing pulled off of actual credit card transactions at stations......every town in the U.S.

             
          • benznd123 posted at 11:52 am on Tue, Mar 1, 2011.

            benznd123 Posts: 222

            Rob, I filled up yesterday, my 1998, 190,000 BENZ (elitist Progressive) takes 91 octane. I paid about $3.90 per gallon. Oil production remains about the same as it has been since who knows when. Yes there has been a disturbance in the Force, yet how are commodities priced? Speculation? Bet on prices and lose or win based upon what? The fuel at this station was purchased, correct me if I am wrong, at a yesterday cost? The price at the pump is based upon todays market? So the owner is making .10 cents more on a gallon of 91 octane? Pure profit? My fill up was approximately $8.00 more. I need some insider understanding my friend.

            In reality, I think gas should be $5.00 per gallon. Things would change quickly. In ND, and probably MT, people let their cars/trucks idle for hours as they visit or shop or whatever. I drove 55mph all the way to Grand Forks for my FREE VA medical service. There was a head wind, so I was only able to manage about 20mpg. And fortunately most of the driving was Interstate, so those who wished to get from here to there could pass the geezer without giving the finger, like I used to. So, keeping this post interesting (-:, at 55 on the way back, same significant southerly "breeze" I was able to eek out about 30mpg at 55. Nice average. I kept telling myself, "all I have is time!" And, one more comment. I got pi$$ed at some old foggie creeping along at 50mph as I had to kick my BENZ off cruise to let some 65mph high performance trucker pass and rudely rattle me and my dog bear. I did apologize to the old couple in the old white chevy truck as I passed them. It took me close to 5 minutes to pass and get back in the right lane, backing up traffic to the Canadian border. I say, "no harm, no foul?"

            Bronco, my son's mailing address, as best I can decipher from his most recent letter is Box 863, KKai, HI 96748. Just address it to BR. I think it is KKai. He will make sure your novel makes it to your guide. By the way, BR has been guiding daily and making $100 in tips. Not bad for a BA level polysci/philosophy dude.

            OK, I know this has been a chat more than a post. But hey, I earned it. Only Bronco and I have been kicked off this site that I am aware of, unless RLS made it into this despondent category.

            "I just dropped in to see what condition your condition was in, ya, ya, ohoooooooooooooooo yaaaaaaaaaaa!

             
          • jennydoe posted at 10:05 am on Tue, Mar 1, 2011.

            jennydoe Posts: 2197

            HTC - Don't worry - I won't be knockin' on your door---I am just hoping you don't eat the morsel of crab meat left in the far reaches of the claw.
            What we like is our news to be truthful, not distorted.
            My skin is fine, thankyou. My mind is as clear as the majority of Americans.
            The public unions have been putting part of their pay towards their pensions.
            Public Union people pay taxes, too. The Koch's will benefit from this bill passing.
            I have been contributing to the Koch's and many more like them for years purchasing their products.
            Meanwhile, they get richer and I try to find a way to purchase more paper towels to clean up the mess I make on my keyboard reading your "independent" republican talking points.
            At least we can agree that our country is ruined. The republicans seem to want to ruin it more. Call me what you want. The worse I have called you is Republican.

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 9:59 am on Tue, Mar 1, 2011.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1562

            "I like my women with clear skin and a clear head."

            D@mn HTC, it's really hard for me to get a handle on personalities over the blogosphere, I thought you were broke back mountain style all the way, giddyup!

             
          • Bronco posted at 9:55 am on Tue, Mar 1, 2011.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            HTC, family values should be reflected by government, wouldn't you agree?

             
          • Bronco posted at 9:28 am on Tue, Mar 1, 2011.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            HTC, I wrote your reply/assault to me before I hit Post Comment. So predictable. Where ya keepin' JB? You take over his string?

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 9:23 am on Tue, Mar 1, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            jennydoe: ...will not save us from the republicans that are destroying our once bountiful nation.
            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Yeah, those darn GOP. Somehow, even with the Democrats in control of Congress for most of the past 60 years, those darn GOP managed to run the country into the ground anyway.

            How befuddled must your thinking be that you're incapable of getting even that simple fact?

            No, jennydoe, it's not the GOP that's ruined the country - it's the Democratic party and their millions of useful idiots like you.


             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 9:16 am on Tue, Mar 1, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            jennydoe: ....won't try now.
            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Don't worry - I won't be knockin' on your door.

            I like my women with clear skin and a clear head.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 9:14 am on Tue, Mar 1, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            jennydoe: As America's middle class battles for its survival on the Wisconsin barricades -- against various Koch Oil surrogates and the corporate toadies at Fox News -- fans of enlightenment, democracy and justice can take comfort from a significant victory north of Wisconsin border. Fox News will not be moving into Canada after all! The reason: Canada regulators announced last week they would reject efforts by Canada's right wing Prime Minister, Stephen Harper, to repeal a law that forbids lying on broadcast news.
            ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Apparently you don't understand that the public employee unions aren't battling the Koch's - their doing battle against the taxpayer.

            And you celebrate government censorship in Canada.

            Boy, are you progressives a confused bunch!

             
          • jennydoe posted at 9:03 am on Tue, Mar 1, 2011.

            jennydoe Posts: 2197

            That's not the point, jennydoe. You know Rob, he has said that alot to me. He must be frustrated with my inability to comprehend his points. I have not tried to soothe a troubled cowboy for some 30 years. couldn't then, won't try now.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 8:56 am on Tue, Mar 1, 2011.

            jennydoe Posts: 2197

            8 years later he offered swift justice to 911 victims because the administration before him failed.
            Guns and religions ain't gonna save anyone.
            My goodness, the plate he inherited. Fool.he.is. He has done good for alot of people. He has an ideal family. He has values. He has the GOP to contend with. The same GOP that let banks and wall street kill what we had. He did a bad one by calling children kids, but I guess that happens by alot of people. I think we will all be thankful when the GOP wins again in 2012. Now them there is some sensible people. The rich will thrive like there was no thriving before. But who will bury the poor? and where? I have the feeling the rich will survive, but only with a highly staffed security force. I am one of those people that have NOTHING saved for retirement, relying heavily on social security to still be there for me. In ten years.
            You seem to be one of those people that won't be concerned with me feeding from the dumpsters that are left unattended for a mere instant. Get it while you can. Too bad JEB won't be around for it will be his garden that I lust after. This country is becoming very third world like - at the whims of very few. Barack's birth certificate and/or college transcribes will not save us from the republicans that are destroying our once bountiful nation. Wisconsin could be a learning lesson in the making. But let's ignore that. Let us crap on Anderson Cooper for calling out Wagner. 700000 jobs loss under our new republican overlords. poor bill39.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 8:41 am on Tue, Mar 1, 2011.

            Rob123 Posts: 6574

            HTC: "That's not the point, jennydoe. The fact that Obama is the first president in my lifetime to not release these various documents including his medical records is troubling."

            Well, jennydoe, as you know, there is only one way to sooth a troubled cowboy. Good luck with that.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 8:18 am on Tue, Mar 1, 2011.

            jennydoe Posts: 2197

            As America's middle class battles for its survival on the Wisconsin barricades -- against various Koch Oil surrogates and the corporate toadies at Fox News -- fans of enlightenment, democracy and justice can take comfort from a significant victory north of Wisconsin border. Fox News will not be moving into Canada after all! The reason: Canada regulators announced last week they would reject efforts by Canada's right wing Prime Minister, Stephen Harper, to repeal a law that forbids lying on broadcast news.

            Canada's Radio Act requires that "a licenser may not broadcast....any false or misleading news." The provision has kept Fox News and right wing talk radio out of Canada and helped make Canada a model for liberal democracy and freedom. As a result of that law, Canadians enjoy high quality news coverage including the kind of foreign affairs and investigative journalism that flourished in this country before Ronald Reagan abolished the "Fairness Doctrine" in 1987. Political dialogue in Canada is marked by civility, modesty, honesty, collegiality, and idealism that have pretty much disappeared on the U.S. airwaves. When Stephen Harper moved to abolish anti-lying provision of the Radio Act, Canadians rose up to oppose him fearing that their tradition of honest non partisan news would be replaced by the toxic, overtly partisan, biased and dishonest news coverage familiar to American citizens who listen to Fox News and talk radio. Harper's proposal was timed to facilitate the launch of a new right wing network, "Sun TV News" which Canadians call "Fox News North." .................................

            http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-f-kennedy-jr/fox-news-will-not-be-moving-into-canada-after-all_b_829473.html

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 8:17 am on Tue, Mar 1, 2011.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1562

            "In the zoomed-in view, there's a strange halo around the letters."

            There, you see? I'm right! Only the antichrist could have created this halo (using time warp). Get on your knees my friends, your time has come!

            Ps For jeff1, ha, ha, ha,....................hoo, hoo, hoo,......................waaaaa, ha, haaaaaaaaa!

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:07 am on Tue, Mar 1, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            jennydoe: HTC , where has anyone gotten with filing a birther claim?
            ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            That's not the point, jennydoe. The fact that Obama is the first president in my lifetime to not release these various documents including his medical records is troubling. Maybe the reason is as simple as his Himalayan-sized ego leading him to believe that King Obama doesn't have to do what others before him have done.

            It doesn't matter. He promised us a new age of transparent government and true transparency starts with him. But we're used to his lies, so one more's no big deal.

            I won't be doing everything I can to watch him go down in flames in 2012 because he didn't release his records. I'll be doing that because he's a socialist POS who doesn't understand his country, its Constitution or its people who "cling to their guns and religion."

            He's failed us on virtually every front since he took office.

            He promised that his "stimulus" would keep unemployment below 8%. We know how that turned out. He rammed Obamacare down our throats even though we didn't want it and now insurance costs have taken one of their biggest jumps ever while many have lost benefits that they use to have. The Chief Actuary of Medicare has called it an expensive joke that will dramatically altered the quality of health care and add to the deficit.

            He promised swift justice to the families of those who died in the 9-11 attacks and instead of sticking with military tribunals that could have provided that justice, he chose to use the criminal courts and has yet to charge the perpetrators because he's finally realized that he opened a can of worms on that one and is too proud to change course.

            He's failed to do anything meaningful about the nuclear threat in Iran. He's been the last to call for the ouster of Mubarak and now Quaddafi. He//, he can't even give the order to blow some pirate mother ship out of the water after they've killed four Americans.

            No, I'll vote for anyone but him - not because he thinks he's too good to release his records but because he's a complete failure as a president who's only demonstrated one skill so far: He can really throw a party at the ol' White House.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 7:51 am on Tue, Mar 1, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            OK, I get it, Bronco. You can't answer my two simple questions and instead prefer to stick your head into the ground and reassure yourself with "The people who count are convinced." Still letting other people do your thinking for you and not even people that you know, let alone should necessarily trust.

            And before you call me a "birther" again, please recall that I previously stated that I was "satisfied" on the citizenship issue but still couldn't help but wonder why he wouldn't release his birth certificate and preferred to fight so many different challenges in the courts instead. It would have been so easy to produce it once and let actual document experts examine it.

            What a front page story that would have been! I can see the headlines now: "Birthers full of crap, say document experts!"

            BTW, a few lefties working for a far-left foundation funded organization (factcheck.org) does not constitute "people that count" in the real world.

            And as for his college transcripts, the left had a hayday with Bush's, calling him a 'C' student (he actually had a 'B' GPA and a higher GPA than Kerry) and a certified dumbazz. You probably thought he was and still do. Somehow it mattered then but you say it doesn't mean "shiit" now. How like a partisan.

            Why the issue of Obama's withholding that information - in spite of his promise to have the most transparent administration and in spite of his being the first to withhold it - why that doesn't bother you certainly disturbs me. You talk about character but don't seem to understand what it is. When confronted with a lying chameleon, you say "Who cares!"

            Well, the answer to that is that the thinking half of America cares and we know conclusively that you're not in that half.

            And so, we've come full circle. There is no fool like an old fool and that's exactly what you are.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 7:16 am on Tue, Mar 1, 2011.

            jennydoe Posts: 2197

            Yes Bill, Anderson sucks all kinds of things. The system, the viewers, Chinese money, liquid money, popsicles. Since he comes from a wealthy family, you know Soros set him up so they could rule the country.
            Heck, him alone could suck our country dry. The loser is laughing at us. To Anderson it is not a job, it is a pleasure.

            Has it occured to you that not everybody idolizes their news commentators/journalists as much as you do Beck?

            Does anyone need some tax cuts? Fresh supply coming in.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 7:09 am on Tue, Mar 1, 2011.

            jennydoe Posts: 2197

            HTC , where has anyone gotten with filing a birther claim? It is the same tatic you all tried with Clinton. It will be something else with our next democratic president. Lawsuits lawsuits lawsuits. Get over it. Let the man preside.

            How can anyone answer your question other than the man himself.
            You can attend 5 colleges and still be an idiot.

            Me, I wouldn't want to waste my time trying to appease all the fringe elements out there.
            I don't want to be searched, even though I have nothing to hide. Personal infringement.
            Some people don't like it.

            But what is funny is that somehow back in '61 a few folk got together and knew what would play out 40 years later. Puts a lot of credence into what Rebel concluded I'd say.

             
          • bill39 posted at 4:58 am on Tue, Mar 1, 2011.

            bill39 Posts: 1039

            So far Frank, none of the lefties here have defended A. Cooper. He must REALLY be a loser. I have to defend him tho he has a job, and may not be sucking off the system. But he probably is, there are so many ways to suck taxpayer money, and Chinese money.

             
          • Bronco posted at 12:00 am on Tue, Mar 1, 2011.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            HTC, his birth certificate was produced. I gave you a site that shows it. I gave you enough proof already. The people who count are convinced that proof has been supplied. If I broke into the Hawaii state health records and stole the actual document, flew to Montana and handed it to you, you still wouldn't believe. Go waste someone else's time.

            As far as the college transcripts, who gives a shiit?

            You birthers are idiots. Count me out of this stupid discussion. Say what you want. I'll be watching, laughing MAO.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 10:49 pm on Mon, Feb 28, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            Bronco: http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html
            -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Very impressive, Bronco - a far-left backed website stating that they've examined the "birth certificate." Not a bipartisan bunch of document experts examining it but a handful of supporters. And they can't even get the document type correct. It's not a "birth certificate" that his campaign staff produced, but a supposed "certificate of live birth" that anyone with more than a fifth-graders understanding of digital technology knows can be easily altered from a scan.

            If you want to impress, try answering two questions that should be very simple to answer:

            (1) Why has Obama spent so much energy and money litigating 60+ "birther" lawsuits instead of releasing his birth certificate?

            (2) Why hasn't he released his college transcripts?

            Please make an effort to come up with a credible answer to those two questions so that the rest of us don't have to write you off as just another of Obama's many "useful idiots."

             
          • Rob123 posted at 10:47 pm on Mon, Feb 28, 2011.

            Rob123 Posts: 6574

            Well, HTC, knowing your base politics, I take that as a compliment.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 10:39 pm on Mon, Feb 28, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            Rob123, SorrySOB is just what his moniker states, but you're a really sick SOB.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 9:54 pm on Mon, Feb 28, 2011.

            Rob123 Posts: 6574

            HTC: "Many of those folks don't think we should even be allowed to vote." You should run for office! Spend all day in the Gov's Mansion on your computer answering your email questions from your constituents about what is going on, and getting paid for it. And when the hate mail from the Right keeps coming in to your Mail Box, you hire some unemployed Rodeo Clowns for personal security, thinking that will lighten things up a little. It doesn't. Soon you see the collage of lonesome Sociopaths out there, and realize Montana seems to be a magnet. So you cut taxes and try to get them to smile and be nice. It doesn't help. It's always something.
            Your experiences as the Big Head of Everything reduces to a Laconic State of the State address: "We're all Spear Chucking nullifyers Now, pardners!". The cheers from the Rotunda are muted, as the crowd slowly shifts from one cheek to the other, anxious for the Free Drinks at the Open Bar, as promised.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 8:56 pm on Mon, Feb 28, 2011.

            Rob123 Posts: 6574

            Pequot: "Well, rob, your eyes probably saw something you had a proclivity to see..." . That was in Bangkok.
            "or something you envisioned whenever it was you began to mix up historical facts to suit your opinions" . Were you in Military Intelligence?

            I guess, inorder to be fair, when were you there and where were you stationed? A rather large base, as you know. I lived up on the Hill in North Fort with the Officers and the Massage Parlor, right across the street from the NCO Club. Really, really twangy, blasting Live music 6 nights a week. But good chow.

             
          • Clam Man posted at 8:49 pm on Mon, Feb 28, 2011.

            Clam Man Posts: 6

            I am surprised Mr. Miele wrote a column on "birthers". The non-issue was fast water under the bridge long ago and Mr. Cooper duped not only Rep. Wagner but you too, Mr. Miele when you decided to jump in on our Rep's behalf. You added insult to injury or plainly spoken, more embarrassment to many Montanans who support our president.

            I respect your writing ability Mr. Miele but you are not very good at disguising your subtle jabs at our president when any opportunity presents it self, e.g. birth cert. I don't buy Wagner's response that it is not related to Pres. Obama. Our state reps and newspaper editors should sit back for a moment and recognize that we are just one of 50 states known to the world as the UNITED States. We United States elected a president to lead us.

            Write a patriotic column for a change and let your "stir the pot agenda" rest until it has some merit.

             
          • Bronco posted at 8:42 pm on Mon, Feb 28, 2011.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

            No, jenny, not a Bruce Springsteen clip.

             
          • Bronco posted at 8:08 pm on Mon, Feb 28, 2011.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            JB, "How did you manage to get a military base named after you so early in your career....??"
            ------------------------------
            Just the island, not the entire base. ;-) Jarheads played games across the runway, Liberty Station was quite a step up. Got our whites there. Never saw one squirrel. Learned to hate seagulls though.

             
          • russ25 posted at 6:59 pm on Mon, Feb 28, 2011.

            russ25 Posts: 195

            REBEL , I am afraid you are right . What scares me even more is I can not think of anyone in either party I would vote for .Republicans will need to dig deep. Local GOP politicans are not helping their cause here in Montana.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 6:12 pm on Mon, Feb 28, 2011.

            jennydoe Posts: 2197

            http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=268989

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 6:01 pm on Mon, Feb 28, 2011.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1562

            Russ, "Dont be telling me that Obama is still running for president. Is'nt he ever going to learn .somebody better tell him before 2012 or we will have to deal with this all over again"

            The problem is, all of the best men for the job are Democrats or just won't embarrass themselves by running under the GOP moniker, which is far from grand. It's a little early to tell but if the Repubicans can't come up with a credible candidate, it will be Obama again.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 6:01 pm on Mon, Feb 28, 2011.

            jennydoe Posts: 2197

            HTC - Here's the link to the article estimating Obama's legal defense costs fighting the 60+ "birther" lawsuits challenging his eligibility to be POTUS:
            ---------------
            wnd? anyway, it showed numbers paid to his legal defence without reference whether they were birther lawsuits.
            As in Alan Keyes lawsuit, Alan had to pay all legal costs.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 5:50 pm on Mon, Feb 28, 2011.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            Bronco: ", I went through boot camp with CO 077 at Nimitz (Squirrel Island)."

            Amazing!

            How did you manage to get a military base named after you so early in your career....??

             
          • Pequot posted at 5:44 pm on Mon, Feb 28, 2011.

            Pequot Posts: 525

            Well, rob, your eyes probably saw something you had a proclivity to see or something you envisioned whenever it was you began to mix up historical facts to suit your opinions. It remains a race-baiting claim unsubstantiated by fact. There have not been Black units in the military since shortly after WWII. How the Military would have now "78%", formerly "90%" Black soldiers commandeered from fully integrated units to empty ammo ships without complaint from a very social issue oriented segment at the time is highly unlikely. People often see what they want to see and that you probably did.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 5:03 pm on Mon, Feb 28, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            Bronco: HTC, couldn't find this.

            Your search - http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/Docket.html - did not match any documents.

            HTC: Maybe you can try again when HI finally gets plugged into the Internet.

            Kidding aside, I don't know what your problem is. The link goes directly to the page listing the various "birther" lawsuits and their status. A Google search of the link takes one there as well.
            The provided links allow one to quickly access copies of court documents and decisions.

            Do you need some help using Google?

            Bronco: I did find the main site but no reference to our specific topic. I somehow find it difficult to take seriously a guy named Dr. Conspiracy.

            HTC: So I guess you won't be "manning-up" any time soon?

            Why would Obama litigate over 60 "birther" lawsuits when he could easily and cheaply end them all by releasing his birth certificate?

            Bronco: I give you:

            http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthers/occidental.asp

            HTC: What for? I've never alleged that Obama got financial aid for his college education as a "foreign student".

            But do tell us why Obama has refused to this day to release his college transcripts, unlike past presidents and candidates who've released theirs.

             
          • russ25 posted at 4:45 pm on Mon, Feb 28, 2011.

            russ25 Posts: 195

            aristocrat appears to be the word

             
          • russ25 posted at 4:43 pm on Mon, Feb 28, 2011.

            russ25 Posts: 195

            Will try to post this again. was censored first time for profanity, did not change a word.He could not all of these legal cost until after he was elected .Look at his net worth before and after the election . Now look at ours. Democrat ,Republican , , , [ Our current state GOP are in a class of their own ] ,do not care about the average person . What I would like is jobs . Then I would be able to pay taxes so someone can chase after all these pressing issues.

             
          • Bronco posted at 4:11 pm on Mon, Feb 28, 2011.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            HTC, couldn't find this.

            Your search - http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/Docket.html - did not match any documents.

            Suggestions:

            * Make sure all words are spelled correctly.
            * Try different keywords.
            * Try more general keywords.
            -----------------------------------------------------------------
            I did find the main site but no reference to our specific topic. I somehow find it difficult to take seriously a guy named Dr. Conspiracy.

            I give you:

            http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthers/occidental.asp

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 4:03 pm on Mon, Feb 28, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            Bronco: In all fairness, you have proven me wrong too. But at least I can muster a man-up and admit it.
            ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Will this be one of those times?

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 4:01 pm on Mon, Feb 28, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            jennydoe & Bronco,

            Here's the link to the article estimating Obama's legal defense costs fighting the 60+ "birther" lawsuits challenging his eligibility to be POTUS:

            http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=114202

            Note that this was written over a year ago, so his total costs are undoubtedly higher.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 3:45 pm on Mon, Feb 28, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            russ25: This is one of many reasons the rest of the country is thinking Montanans are a bunch of hicks & idiots.
            -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Russ, the "rest of the country" that feels that way is Blue and concentrated on both coasts. I've spent a lot of time doing business in those areas and, trust me on this, they think all of the "fly over" states (Red states) are dumbazz hick states. Many of those folks don't think we should even be allowed to vote.

            They don't need a reason to feel that way other than their own arrogant myopic view of the world that sees anyone who disagrees with them as being idiots.

            So don't worry about them - there's nothing you can do to change their opinion and who cares what those mental midgets think anyway?

             
          • russ25 posted at 3:38 pm on Mon, Feb 28, 2011.

            russ25 Posts: 195

            Rob, I think it was a middle finger....He got tired of all this

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 3:38 pm on Mon, Feb 28, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            russ25: ...this current legislative session is making us the laughing stock of the nation .Cowboy code,spear hunting ,ignoring federal laws, [when we chose to do so ], sheriff highest lawman in the county ,toss out the endangered species act ,local militas ,etc
            ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            I agree. Yet another opportunity squandered by the GOP.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 3:30 pm on Mon, Feb 28, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            jennydoe: I am going with the scenario that makes Bronco a compassionate human being. You know,or not, concerned with his fellow human beings.
            ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Ah, the "compassion" thing.

            What folks like you don't understand is that folks like me have a soft heart also. What differentiates us from you progressives is that, unlike you, our heads aren't also soft.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 3:27 pm on Mon, Feb 28, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            Bronco: HTC, I, too, am calling you out regarding your statement (twice you said it)....
            -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            OK, check out this overview of the various "birther" lawsuits and appeals:

            http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/Docket.html

            Quite a list, wouldn't you say?

            So, what, you're surprised that the lamestream media that you follow hasn't been talking about this?

            Couldn't be cheap for Obama, paying those D.C. and N.Y. law firms to drain this much legal swamp water.

             
          • Bronco posted at 2:55 pm on Mon, Feb 28, 2011.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            Rob, "...I'd rather do something real, like find the last digit of pi."

            pi lost his finger?

             
          • russ25 posted at 1:36 pm on Mon, Feb 28, 2011.

            russ25 Posts: 195

            Dont be telling me that Obama is still running for president. Is'nt he ever going to learn .somebody better tell him before 2012 or we will have to deal with this all over again. If our legislative body has their way we can just nullify this . What the hell we are Montanans!!!

             
          • Rob123 posted at 1:01 pm on Mon, Feb 28, 2011.

            Rob123 Posts: 6574

            Obama Birth Certificate Expenses

            Advanced search About 184,000 results (0.21 seconds)

            I looked a little in google, but geez.....I'd rather do something real, like find the last digit of pi.

             
          • bill39 posted at 12:22 pm on Mon, Feb 28, 2011.

            bill39 Posts: 1039

            No Jenny, I'll choose to remain ignorant.

             
          • russ25 posted at 12:03 pm on Mon, Feb 28, 2011.

            russ25 Posts: 195

            Not a fan of Anderson Copper but he did make our very own Mr . Wagner look like a ignorant fool . Wagner could not come up with a good defense when Copper asked for the facts . This is one of many reasons the rest of the country is thinking Montanans are a bunch of hicks & idiots . I am a republican but this current legislative session is making us the laughing stock of the nation .Cowboy code,spear hunting ,ignoring federal laws, [when we chose to do so ], sheriff highest lawman in the county ,toss out the endangered species act ,local militas ,etc Anderson did'nt make him look like a fool , he did it himself.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 11:27 am on Mon, Feb 28, 2011.

            jennydoe Posts: 2197

            bill - but I wouldnt know Anderson Cooper if I saw him.
            -----------------
            google is your friend

             
          • bill39 posted at 11:13 am on Mon, Feb 28, 2011.

            bill39 Posts: 1039

            Over the last 80 years, 40 sessions of congress democrats have controlled congress 76% of the time. They have controlled congress and presidency combined, 70% of the time over the last 80 years. Do you really think your politicians will stop at just a little socialism? Sorry Frank for getting off track here, but I wouldnt know Anderson Cooper if I saw him.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 10:50 am on Mon, Feb 28, 2011.

            jennydoe Posts: 2197

            Alan Keyes Ordered to Pay President Obama's Court Costs

            A state appellate court in Sacramento tossed out a lawsuit claiming President Barack Obama is not eligible to occupy the White House because he is not a natural-born citizen of the United States. The court ordered the plaintiffs to pay all court costs of the defendants.

            --------------
            400 millions.....

             
          • jennydoe posted at 10:16 am on Mon, Feb 28, 2011.

            jennydoe Posts: 2197

            Good Idea - Bad Business Cents:

            LEE'S SUMMIT, Mo. -- There are many stores that charge just $1 for most items, but the metropolitan area now has a store where everything on the shelves is free.

            The first Free Store opened Saturday in Lee's Summit and operators said they hope the public will help them make an impact.

            The store is filled with clothes, coats and toys of all sizes.

            Members of Heaven's Gate Gospel Church collected donations to stock the shelves and they hope they can serve at least 500 families this season.

            "The goal of the store is to get the things that have been sitting and get them out to the people that need it right now," said Doug Frazier.

            He said he's encouraging other people to get involved to help the city's needy families.

            "It could be a lot better Christmas for them and we'll feel good also," he said.

            The store will be open Monday through Saturday. The public is still encouraged to donate gently used clothing and toys. Donations can be dropped off at 205 S. Green St. in Lee's Summit. People with more than a few bags of items can call 816-298-1826 and arrange a pickup.
            ========================
            KANSAS CITY, Mo. -- Directors of the Free Store in Lee's Summit said the store will close for good this weekend.

            Officials said the funding they had to cover rent and utility expenses ends this month.

            "It is sad to have to close, but it is awesome to know that we helped so many families during Christmas and during this extreme cold weather. We have helped so many families in the past three months with clothes, food, toys, and household items ... everything. The need is great and the community has responded with items to be given away," said Brenda Lang, one of the directors of the store.

            Photos: Lee's Summit Free Store To Close

            The Free Store is open from 10 a.m. to 3 p.m. Everything that's left on Saturday will be given to shelters and organizations that give out free donations.

            Operators said anyone seeking to help find ways to keep the store open are encouraged to call 816-398-1826.

             
          • Bronco posted at 10:11 am on Mon, Feb 28, 2011.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            Rob, I went through boot camp with CO 077 at Nimitz (Squirrel Island). We were a good 75% black, 20% white, one Asian and a couple of Hispanics. Our CO was black. The other companies had a more generous sprinkling of caucasians. Most of the time we were fed last. Our, uh, composure during drills and during forced waits lacked a little discipline, to say the least.

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 10:04 am on Mon, Feb 28, 2011.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1562

            Jeff1 said: "Rebel Rouser

            You certainly put an interesting spin on my post. "

            It would have read differently if I had put the "ha, ha, haaaa." at the end of my comment. Sorry bout that Jeff, I have a strong sense of humor, and I thought it was funny, ha, ha, haaa.

             
          • Bronco posted at 9:51 am on Mon, Feb 28, 2011.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            HTC, I, too, am calling you out regarding your statement (twice you said it) :

            "It is fact that he's spent over a million dollars fighting the so-called birther law suits which sought court orders forcing him to produce a birth certificate that could be examined by outside experts."

            Your only proof so far is to call me a fool. Go on and post your 'facts' and your objective and oh-so-reliable right-wing extremists sources. You've stepped into a steaming pile yet again. I've had enough of you braying how gullible I am, enough of you calling me names and denigrating my character. Most of the room may be awed by your twists of logic, your show of superiority, but I have proven you wrong on numerous occasions.

            In all fairness, you have proven me wrong too. But at least I can muster a man-up and admit it. You just throw shadows and mirrors, hoping to sustain the worship from your lapdogs and maintain your zeppellin-sized ego.

            jennydoe and I are waiting: this oughta be good.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 9:30 am on Mon, Feb 28, 2011.

            jennydoe Posts: 2197

            I am going with the scenario that makes Bronco a compassionate human being. You know,or not, concerned with his fellow human beings.

            You all were not satisfied with what was shown. I cannot produce my original certificate of birth.
            I do not believe all the proof in the world would be enough to convince some of you, and why are we bothering spending millions of our hard earned tax payers dollars on this anyway. His mother was a legal citizen - hence.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 9:23 am on Mon, Feb 28, 2011.

            jennydoe Posts: 2197

            HTC, Frank tells us Anderson is responsible, I dispute that, you say evidence? I produce, you coin new term.
            nice.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 9:11 am on Mon, Feb 28, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            jennydoe: factual where? I cannot find a single source that states that.

            HTC: When I get time later today, I'll try to find the source again which provided an estimate of his legal costs fighting the many "birther" law suits. Regardless, you're missing the point which isn't how much Obama spent on his legal team fighting those many efforts to force the release of his birth certificate but why he would fight those efforts rather than simply release the document for independent verification by experts.

            That was my question to Bronco: Why fight it if you've got nothing to hide? Do you have a good answer?

            jennydoe: When Bronco stated what taxes he paid, I took it as a statement, you took it as a complaint?

            HTC: I was giving Bronco the benefit of the doubt and assumed that he was complaining about his high tax burden as any normal businessman would. If I'm wrong about that and you're correct, then that would mean that he can't connect the dots and doesn't know what's good or bad for his business.

            So, which scenario are you going with?

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:57 am on Mon, Feb 28, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            Well, jennydoe, if you're going to insist that the Tea Party folks labeled themselves as "teab@ggers", then let's be consistent and start calling their opponents "teab@ggees."

             
          • Rob123 posted at 8:48 am on Mon, Feb 28, 2011.

            Rob123 Posts: 6574

            Pequot posted at 8:06 am on Mon, Feb 28, 2011.

            Proof? Just my eyes. 1969-70. Was it 78%? or 91%? I don't know, but it was way more than the National Average of Black folks living in America.
            And of course they used forklifts and pallets......but the holds of ships are pretty hot that close to the equator.
            And I saw a lot of Filipino workers off loading PX stuff and food supplies, with armed Soldiers riding shotgun with them to keep the shrinkage in the 10% category. I used to do milk runs up to Nha Trang with these Filipino truckers every chance I got. Crack open a couple beers, see the sights, lots of giggles. Mr. Charlie knew that the Sea-Land trucks were fine Japanese Stereos and Cameras, latest records, Cigs and booze.... way to valuable to blow up. Our job, as armed guards, was to keep the drivers semi-honest.....there job was to get us stoned and laid and not paying attention. Weird.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 8:34 am on Mon, Feb 28, 2011.

            jennydoe Posts: 2197

            HTC - It is fact that he's spent over a million dollars fighting the so-called birther law suits which sought court orders frocing him to produce a birth certificate that could be examined by outside experts.
            ------------------------------------------------
            factual where? I cannot find a single source that states that.

            When Bronco stated what taxes he paid, I took it as a statement, you took it as a complaint?

             
          • laker1 posted at 8:22 am on Mon, Feb 28, 2011.

            laker1 Posts: 110

            I am afraid that doesn’t help with my confusion. You see, the column of the Honolulu Sunday Advertiser which contains Obama’s birth announcement is headed “Health Bureau Statistics”. Now I don’t know but it would seem to me that a Health Bureau in Honolulu would collect statistics about births in Honolulu or, maybe Hawaii, but not about births in, say, Kenya. Do health bureaus in Hawaii have provisions for the reporting of foreign births? Why would they? Since his mother was an American citizen, her child has a right to American citizenship regardless where he was born.
            You don’t say where or how the Daily Interlake gets its information about births. Does it publish reports of births that happen in, say, California? Kenya? Has the Daily Interlake published reports of such births in foreign countries as if they had occurred in the Flathead Valley? In short, do you as editor subject the information in the Daily Interlake to the same critical scrutiny that you would exercise on the Star Bulletin and the Advertiser? Or do you just print it and leave it to the readers to try to figure out what’s true and what isn’t? Or do I have a newspaper telling me that I shouldn’t trust newspapers?

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 8:10 am on Mon, Feb 28, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            OK, Bronco, I get it. You can't answer two simple questions so you regurgitate what we all already know and sink to insult. Then you insist that it is I who have no credibility. That's funny.

            It's SO true: There is no fool like an old fool and you are the king of fools, my friend.

            It is fact that he's spent over a million dollars fighting the so-called birther law suits which sought court orders frocing him to produce a birth certificate that could be examined by outside experts.

            Your little progressive bubble world won't permit such challenges to even exist, so you insist that they don't. You vote for Obama and other progressives, but insist that you don't support their policies. You confirm that you don't understand economics but insist that Obama's done a good job with the economy. You scream that you understand what's good for your business, then complain about all the taxes you have to pay that were enacted by liberal politicians that you voted for.

            Where I come from we call folks like you insane.

             
          • Pequot posted at 8:06 am on Mon, Feb 28, 2011.

            Pequot Posts: 525

            Mr. Rob: I'm sure you have proof of your contention that 90+% of those off-loading munitions ships at Cam Rhan Bay were Black U.S. Army soldiers ? Has you stated WWII sailors at a Carquinez Straits munitions depot in California you would have been historically accurate. I spent time at Cam Rhan Bay and my recollection is that the off-loading was pretty much mechanized and the equipment operators were Seabees and local nationals. Did not see a large contingent of black soldiers in the area. I'm sure had that been the case there would have been a major inquiry into such a practice after the complaints that would surely have been registered. Reads to me like a bit of race-baiting.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 8:02 am on Mon, Feb 28, 2011.

            Rob123 Posts: 6574

            jennydoe posted at 7:22 am on Mon, Feb 28, 2011.

            (-:

             
          • jennydoe posted at 7:22 am on Mon, Feb 28, 2011.

            jennydoe Posts: 2197

            So Mooseberry, who do you watch for that objective feel?

             
          • jennydoe posted at 7:21 am on Mon, Feb 28, 2011.

            jennydoe Posts: 2197

            http://www.memecore.com/storage/15tax-tea480.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1272425853253

            http://www.eurweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/te@bagger.jpg

            http://folksinpublic.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/te@bagging-4-jesus-sm1.jpg

            NOTE: the 'a' has been changed to @ for posting privleges

             
          • mooseberryinn posted at 7:07 am on Mon, Feb 28, 2011.

            mooseberryinn Posts: 2667

            Anderson Cooper is just another example of CNN's failure to remain objective. I don't bother watching CNN anymore.

             
          • jennydoe posted at 7:00 am on Mon, Feb 28, 2011.

            jennydoe Posts: 2197

            HTC - Your evidence?

            Reviewing the earliest taped references to "teab@ggers", it appears that Anderson Cooper and Jon Stewart were the first to start using the label, followed shortly thereafter by Rachel Maddow who used it fifty times in one show alone.

            Regardless of its origin, these individuals and many others on the left were clearly using it to denegrate a group and a political ideology which with they disagreed, all while trying to pretend that "hate speech" is primarily a right wing phenomena.
            -------------------------------------------------
            hate speech? I guess people hate it when others laugh at them......
            evidence?......
            Feb. 27, 2009
            At the first anti-stimulus "New American Tea Party" rally in Washington D.C., a protestor carries a sign reading "Tea Bag the Liberal Dems before they Tea Bag You!!" The Washington Independent's David Weigel calls it "the best sign I saw."

            March 2
            Americans for Prosperity, an anti-tax group, is one of the first Tea Party organizations to advocate sending tea bags to elected officials to protest the stimulus package. Several other lobby groups follow suit.

            April 1
            Several Tea Party protest sites encourage readers to "Tea bag the fools in DC." Jay Nordlinger at National Review Online later admits: "Conservatives started [using the term]... but others ran and ran with it."

            April 9
            Rachel Maddow is the first to mock the Tea Party's use of the phrase on her left-leaning MSNBC show. "Even Governor Mark Sanford of South Carolina is getting in on the hot tea-b@ging action," she says, stifling laughter. (Watch Rachel Maddow joke about the "tea b@ggers")

            April 13
            David Shuster, filling in for liberal commentator Keith Olbermann on MSNBC, also makes fun of the phrase. "While the parties are officially toothless, the tea-b@ggers are full-throated about their goals," he says. Jeff Poor at the Business and Media Insitute says that the MSNBC comments are "lost in juvenile criticism and ignoring the reason there is discontent from the conservative base"

            April 14
            Anderson Cooper, on his avowedly non-partisan CNN show, makes a similar crack, but later back-pedals, calling his remark a "stupid, silly, one-line aside" that was not meant to "disparage legitimate protests."

            September 10
            Badges with the message "Proud to be a Tea B@gger" are still on sale at Tea Party events, according to an article written later in the year.
            .................................................................
            http://theweek.com/article/index/202620/the-evolution-of-the-word-tea-b@gger

             
          • Rob123 posted at 1:25 am on Mon, Feb 28, 2011.

            Rob123 Posts: 6574

            As we slowly try to elevate our thoughts to the level of a National Enquirer Reporter, lets us bow our heads and reflect back to 1961. A young, white, female college student pregnant with a child fathered by a black man from Africa. Hum....Civil Rights protests were just getting a head of steam, mixed marriages were rare, just like mixed dating. Hawaii had a stable population of White, Mixed, and Native peoples, who all accepted their places except when they got in fist fights.
            What would cause such a birth to be a little hush-hush? Using the social mores of 1961? And such social mores seem to be alive and well in little social vacuums spread across our fair country, 50 years later.

            Even in 1969 Vietnam, with our Fully Integrated Army, the guys who unloaded the Ammo Ships at Cam Ranh Bay were 90+% Black. My unit of 155 guys had 1 Black guy (a drafted CPA, degree in Economics from the U of Chicago.....guess what! his actual MOS was Truck Driver, but the Captain of his Transportation Unit saw his 201 File and put him in our unit to get their Finance Records straight).

            We have come a long ways, but sadly, not all of us.

             
          • Bronco posted at 10:56 pm on Sun, Feb 27, 2011.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            Checks and balances, Frank. I agree. I think it's a poor degree of qualification, but that was the 18th century. Even Jesus is disqualified to run for president. Zeus also.

             
          • posted at 9:44 pm on Sun, Feb 27, 2011.

            Posts:

            Laker1: So far as I know, no one is doubting what was published in the newspapers. Barack Obama was indeed born. The address given for his home was his grandparent's home in Hawaii, where they did indeed live. But the newspaper listing did not say where he was born, nor did it establish if he was a natural-born citizen according to the laws of the United States. A newspaper cannot establish that, and has no reason to in the case of a newborn. But someone somewhere should establish whether or not candidates for federal office meet the constitutional test for their office. That's all I'm asking for. It seems pretty obvious really. --Frank

             
          • laker1 posted at 9:30 pm on Sun, Feb 27, 2011.

            laker1 Posts: 110

            As usual I am a little confused. Our Dear Editor wants transparency. It seems to me that we had transparency in 1961.

            Did not the two local papers report Barack Obama’s birth in Honolulu? If they did and that was not true, then it would seem that the newspapers knowingly published a lie or were fooled into doing so. I don’t know what steps journalists and editors take to ensure that what is published is true but it seems to me that our Dear Editor does. Are those measures so flimsy that the birth of a child may be pure fiction? While I doubt that there is a journalist in the delivery room for every birth in Honolulu or Kalispell, are newspapers so credulous that they will print anything they are told?

            While I am not sure this is an example of the liar’s paradox, it is confusing to have the editor of a newspaper arguing that readers shouldn’t believe what’s published in newspapers. Not much of an incentive to buy newspapers, eh?

             
          • prsmith posted at 8:32 pm on Sun, Feb 27, 2011.

            prsmith Posts: 1

            "I do not believe Obama was born in Kenya. I think he was born in Hawaii"
            --------------------------------

            What difference does it make, Jeff? Answer: NONE! Either way, Obama is ineligible to be the POTUS.

             
          • Bronco posted at 8:32 pm on Sun, Feb 27, 2011.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            JB, nicely formed insults. Those barbarian classes are really paying off. Now bandage your knuckles, change your Depends, and practice your syllables.

            HTC, a copy of Obama's birth certificate was posted by the Obama campaign in 2008. Both Honolulu newspapers, the Advertiser and the Star Bulletin, published announcements in August of 1961 documenting Obama's birth. Your claims that $1 million was spent to block any disclosure is patently false and ridiculous. You accuse me of being gullible but you wear the f***ing crown. Try to find your way through all the right-wing theories and join us in the real world. You really think the conspiracy includes two independent Hawaii newspapers, State of Hawaii health recorders in 1961, and the current Supreme Court of New Jersey, just to name a few? You just shat your credibility out your backside.

             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 7:58 pm on Sun, Feb 27, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            Bronco: Imagine a State senator becoming a major party presidential nominee and risking his entire candidacy on a fraud that could be uncovered simply by checking state health records.
            ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Hawaii privacy laws make releasing those records without the individual's written consent a crime. You should know that - you live there.

            RLS does have a point, though. Why would Obama spend more than a millions dollars fighting such a release in court? Please answer that one.

            And why has the president who was going to raise transparency in government to an all new level continued to withhold his college transcripts, unlike past presidents/candidates?

            Any good explanations for that?

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 6:04 pm on Sun, Feb 27, 2011.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            Jeff1: Something is being hidden. For a President to keep that much hidden , there has to be a reason---or reasons. Maybe , someday, we will learn who Obama is. But I don't hold much hope.

            I don't really CARE who he is. I just want to know how to get rid of him.

             
          • JBSTONE posted at 6:02 pm on Sun, Feb 27, 2011.

            JBSTONE Posts: 4558

            Bronco: "Can we move on? "

            I don't know about anyone else, but I sure wish you would.

             
          • Bronco posted at 5:41 pm on Sun, Feb 27, 2011.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            OMG. This is absurd. Ridiculously so. Imagine a State senator becoming a major party presidential nominee and risking his entire candidacy on a fraud that could be uncovered simply by checking state health records.
            Can we move on?

             
          • Rick Spencer posted at 4:36 pm on Sun, Feb 27, 2011.

            Rick Spencer Posts: 405

            First off, I quit watching CNN during the first Gulf War when Bernie came back from Baghdad and refused to debrief DOD. I guess I was a little overboard, but may be forgiven as my youngest son was involved. I don't like it when my family is put at risk by the 'superior' attitude of an individual.

            Next, I have often wondered why the this question of birthright has never been answered to the satisfaction of the many by Obama. It would seem an easy task to have HI release those records, as what could they show? I have had to release mine several times during my lifetime, as have most of the readers. And, we know practically every movement of every President from Washington on.

            If this does not turn out right, then the consequences would be horrific for the country. Can you imagine that every law passed, everything done during his four years would be negated. What else could be done to right such a wrong? I can only assume that the birthers are wrong because of the consequences of them being right!

            Letting this discussion continue when it could be so easily put to rest is puzzling to me. What am I missing? RLS

             
          • Jeff1 posted at 4:14 pm on Sun, Feb 27, 2011.

            Jeff1 Posts: 100

            Rebel Rouser

            You certainly put an interesting spin on my post.


             
          • Rob123 posted at 2:32 pm on Sun, Feb 27, 2011.

            Rob123 Posts: 6574

            HTC: "A lot of the people who voted for him in 2008 won't make the same mistake in 2012."

            That depends on who the Republicans run......Palin-Rush Baby? They could get the nomination amongst the few party faithful left.


             
          • HighTechCowboy posted at 2:13 pm on Sun, Feb 27, 2011.

            HighTechCowboy Posts: 9886

            Jeff1: Something is being hidden. For a President to keep that much hidden , there has to be a reason---or reasons. Maybe , someday, we will learn who Obama is. But I don't hold much hope.
            ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            We know what he is - a far left "democratic" socialist - so does it really matter WHO he is?

            A lot of the people who voted for him in 2008 won't make the same mistake in 2012.

             
          • azgo4freedom posted at 1:09 pm on Sun, Feb 27, 2011.

            azgo4freedom Posts: 1

            The author wrote;
            "For the record, the certificate produced by President Obama’s 2008 campaign is merely an acknowledgment that Barack Obama’s birth was recorded by the state of Hawaii, but it provides no details as to where that birth took place. ..."

            ‘Fight the Smears’ is Paid Political Advertising

            The ‘Fight the Smears’ web page with the image of a birth document is a political advertisement and conforms with U.S. Code 441.d, Publication and distribution of statements and solicitations. This code section deals with campaign funding, reporting and other parameters but does not require the material to be truthful by the person advertising. Political advertising is legal even if the advertiser does not tell the truth. In Edenfield v. Fane (91-1594), 507 U.S. 761 (1993), the Supreme Court said this in regard to the First Amendment right to freedom of speech and advertising;

            “But the general rule is that the speaker and the audience, not the government, assess the value of the information presented.”

            The campaign threw up an eye-catching wizardry of a political advertisement displaying graphics for visual impression, displaying statements of impression such as ‘native born’ and the candidate’s status as a ‘citizen by the 14th Amendment’ and solicitations of impressions to ‘donate now’ and tell others, all for the truth about the candidate.

            The state of Hawaii has not ever stated that the online image was issued by them as the ‘issuing authority’ of a genuine ‘identification document’. The political ad by the campaign did not provide any further information verifying that the image came from the Hawaii Department of Health, Vital Records. The original online newspaper and fact checking organizations (L.A. Times, Daily Kos, Annenberg Political FactCheck, Politifact) who received the image from the campaign said they received the image from the campaign.

            So therefore, the online image of the birth document means nothing…

            …except that many many Americans were duped into believing the image was for real including the media and our own state and national public officials!

            http://jbjd.org/2011/02/20/too-ignorant-to-lead/
            http://jbjd.org/2011/01/03/de-coder-rings-1of2/

            jbjd is a lawyer and public school teacher.

            Find out what a genuine birth "identification document” is with the proper “authentication feature[s]” as issued by lawful authority as issued by "a State" as per U.S. Code Section 1028.

            "(3) the term “identification document” means a document made or issued by or under the authority of the United States Government, a State, political subdivision of a State, a sponsoring entity of an event designated as a special event of national significance, a foreign government, political subdivision of a foreign government, an international governmental or an international quasi-governmental organization which, when completed with information concerning a particular individual, is of a type intended or commonly accepted for the purpose of identification of individuals;"
            http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00001028----000-.html

            Thanks for the article Mr. Miele and remember political free speech is a constitutional protection which the Founding Fathers had in mind when they drafted the First Amendment.

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 12:03 pm on Sun, Feb 27, 2011.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1562

            "Something is being hidden. For a President to keep that much hidden , there has to be a reason---or reasons.
            Maybe , someday, we will learn who Obama is. But I don't hold much hope."

            The real reason Obama just suddenly appeared on earth is because he CAN. He's the ONE, you know, the antichrist of biblical fame, yes, that's right, it's OBAMA!! You cannot escape this reality as it has been pre-determined by gGod. Prepare to burn!


             
          • Rob123 posted at 11:41 am on Sun, Feb 27, 2011.

            Rob123 Posts: 6574

            I hate it when I can't remember olde buddies names, eh JD?

             
          • Rob123 posted at 11:40 am on Sun, Feb 27, 2011.

            Rob123 Posts: 6574

            Olde Buddy JD! "Perhaps so, but "proof of ID" is NOT "proof of citizenship" by a long shot."

            Well, wouldn't that depend on the ID that is asked for? People without a drivers license can produce ID and buy a beer, ya know. Presidential types produce different ID. If you walked in and asked for a beer, no one would ID you, until you said "Put it on my tab". Then they would, I bet.

             
          • Bronco posted at 11:15 am on Sun, Feb 27, 2011.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            Here's a primer for you, JB:

            ID: noun
            the part of the mind in which innate instinctive impulses and primary processes are manifest.

            citizenship: noun
            status of a legally recognized subject or national of a state or commonwealth, either native or naturalized

            natural born: What makes a natural born citizen any more qualified to lead this country than one born by c-section?