Reporter Carol Costello had a report on CNN's "American Morning" Friday asking whether the time was ripe for a third party in the United States.
That's certainly an interesting topic, and one well worth featuring in a news report, but what was really interesting was that the third party Costello chose to feature was communism.
That seems to tell us more about CNN than about American politics.
No, I don't think that CNN stands for Communist News Network like some people do, but that cable news channel does sometimes seem to have a left-leaning slant (not into Stalin territory like MSNBC, but well over into the Gorbachev range at least).
And if you don't think they lean left, would you do me a favor? Please explain why they picked a communist out as an example of how the country is "ripe" for a third party? Do any of you really believe that communism is about to become a viable grass-roots alternative in Cleveland or anywhere else in America? I don't.
And nobody I know, whether Republican or Democrat, would ever consider voting for a communist for city council, let alone for Senate or president. So how exactly is this a proper focus for a story about Americans being receptive to the idea of a third party?
Oh sure, the story also mentioned Bob Barr and the Libertarian Party, and had a quote from political analyst John Avlon saying, "Voters are getting more and more frustrated with politics as usual," but that's a far cry from saying Americans are ready to cast off centuries of capitalist tradition and adopt the failed dogmas of Eastern Europe.
Yet CNN focused their story on the "little communist candidate who could," Rick Nagin. There was not even the hint of any skepticism from the CNN reporter about touting communism as a viable alternative to the Democrats and Republicans. Indeed, if you watched Costello's report, you got the idea that communism was as American as apple pie. Kind of like Nagin's concluding quote: "I consider myself to be a very patriotic American. I love this country."
That's nice. Swell. I bet Stalin liked his country too even though he killed 30 million of his fellow citizens. And I'm sure Chairman Mao was a big fan of China even though about 80 million Chinese are estimated to have perished "unexpectedly" during his reign.
But that could never happen here, right?
Well, probably not. At least, not as long as Americans continue to be told the truth, and can make informed decisions for themselves.
But what if we don't get the truth? What if we are fed an endless diet of anti-American propaganda from major news networks and major political parties? Isn't it possible then that we might fall prey to opportunistic charlatans who will pounce on the uninformed electorate like wolves in sheep's clothing?
The weird thing is that this Rick Nagin is indeed a serious candidate for the Cleveland City Council. That's certainly worth reporting. Flukes like this happen from time to time, such as socialist Bernie Sanders being elected to the Senate from Vermont.
And people ought to hear about Nagin. He is an intriguing candidate, who raises some interesting questions. According to Costello, he is both a registered Democrat AND a member of the Communist Party. He was quoted in the report on CNN's "American Morning" as saying, "I believe that corporate greed is the source of the problems in this country and we'd all be a lot better off if working people and their organizations were running things instead of big business."
Reporter Costello did not identify whether this quote was made by the "registered Democrat" side of Nagin, or the "member of the Communist Party," but the question is how many other Democrats, including elected officials, feel the same way about capitalism? Is disdain for free enterprise the "dirty little secret" of Democrats? I certainly hope not.
But when you read the glowing reviews for Michael Moore's latest film, you have to wonder. Moore, at least, comes right out and admits that he thinks the economic system that made our country great is "evil." In his new movie, "Capitalism: A Love Story," he blames people like you and me who value the American dream for the troubles of people who are struggling to make it in 21st-century America.
Oh sure, he singles out rich CEOs as the "great Satans" of America, but you know behind every "great Satan" with a Ferrari, there are a thousand "little Satans" driving Fords and thinking about Ferraris. Those wannabe CEOs are you and me, folks -- scrambling for our place on the ladder of success, trying to get ahead, and making Michael Moore see red as he thinks about how one man's success is another's "exploitation."
Heck, when you think about it, the problem all starts with the "teeny-tiny Satans" hawking lemonade from roadside stands to the "little Satans" driving by in their big bad Fords. Those kids are small-scale capitalists, and unless they are giving half their earnings to the kid down the street who didn't have the ambition to run a lemonade stand of his own but still wants to buy himself candy and a soda pop, they are also "evil." Share the wealth, dudes.
Of course, Michael Moore is smart enough not to attack your kids. If he did that, you wouldn't go see the capitalist-funded movies that have turned him into a multi-millionaire. Oh yeah, and did I say that I didn't know anyone who would vote for a communist for city council? I was wrong. I forgot about Michael Moore.
n Frank Miele is managing editor of the Daily Inter Lake and writes a weekly column. E-mail responses may be sent to edit@dailyinterlake.com
rtr
THE SOCIALIST PARTY PLATFORM of 1912
"By abolishing official charity and substituting a non-contributary system of old age pensions, a general system of insurance by the State of all its members against unemployment and invalidism and a system of compulsory insurance by employers of their workers, without cost to the latter, against industrial diseases, accidents and death".
Approved by Plantman and "et al" the other socialist sheep..
Rob123
Sure a lot of comments! Just got back from Canada, and all I can say is.....beautiful fall colors, but when a cup of coffee to go at a Canuck Denny's is $2.49, wow!
Tox
For the record: The number of posts after each name is highly skewed and currently doesn’t really reflect posting activity, since posters’ post count arbitrarily covers 2 different periods. While some poster’s post count apparently covers the entire time before the DIL’s website upgrade some 11 or 12 days ago (like mine), others’ post count only covers the short period since the website upgrade. Clearly there are other posters who are far more prolific than I.
Plantman
....and speaking of "flooding the comment section," that posting looks a tad familiar, eh? No, really...I understand that it probably looked like your post didn't get posted, so you re-posted it; it happens here w/regularity, rtr, so don't worry about people thinking you're a hypocrite.
Plantman
rtr, the more a person speaks, the more people can know about him. What do YOUR posts say about what YOU truly are?
And, really, use your words; form a cohesive thought; craft it into a defensible position; use logic and examples. Step up to the plate and take your best swing, don't just sit in on the bench heckling the opposing team.
Plantman
With that off my chest....
rtr: Using the quote (I think it's a quote...though there's no annotation) is great, but then you ruin it by implying that it proves your assertion that all of us that you don't agree with are communist (or maybe it's just aimed at me...it's hard to tell). It's really a fine piece of information, but I don't see where it has anything to do with any comments that have been posted, nor do I see how it proves that the Communist Party is anti-American. In fact, if anything it suggest that CP is becoming more like the rest of us (that is to say, more capitalistic, or at least tolerant of capitalism). Notice how it says that "it has encouraged some defections from the CP to other leftist groups?" That says to me that the CP is becoming less radical, more mainstream.
As far as the CP's stated goal to "topple what they perceive as conservative domination in America," well, I get the feeling that that's exactly what YOU are on about...trying to topple what you perceive as Liberal domination in America. And if you believe that you have that right, then you must allow it to people of opposing views. It says nothing of toppling the government, only the domination of one ideology to the (inferred) exclusion of another. And THAT is what makes this country so great: that we can have this (usually) civil discourse without fear of reprisals. We don't have to worry about the Brown Shirts beating down our doors, or organized thugs keeping us from voting our conscience. This is AMERICA, Baby!
Still, as I said, it doesn't prove that I'm a communist, that anyone else that's posted here is a communist, or that any of us think the American Dream is bad. It just proves that we think that the tired, poor huddled masses (to paraphrase Emma Lazarus, see "Statue of Liberty tablet") should be cared for, whereas from what I've heard from you, you do not. We think that social issues are important, and that government should make sure these issues are addressed, whereas you think...what? Everything you've said has been negative, negating what you seem to think that we are about. But what DO you think about these issues?
rtr
This is information the Communists do NOT want you to see.
From glasnost to the 21st century (1989–2000s)
During the 1990s, the party recruited heavily in impoverished minority neighborhoods in the US, particularly in Black neighborhoods. As a result, there are many young Black and Hispanic members of the organization.
The Communist Party USA still runs candidates for local office, although almost exclusively under the Democratic banner. In recent years, the party has strongly opposed the Republican Party in the U.S., who they term "ultra-right" and, at times, "fascist". As part of the party's current strategic line, as outlined in The Road to Socialism USA[2], the CPUSA strongly supports a Democratic Party victory against the Republicans,[citation needed] as they see the Republican Party as a menace to be defeated. The Communist Party still maintains that both parties are capitalist in nature, and only support the Democrats as a means to topple what they perceive as conservative domination in America. Many in the socialist movement disagree with this "lesser of two evils" strategy (some consider it a shocking shift to straightforward capitalism), and it has encouraged some defections from the CP to other leftist groups.
rtr
To Plantman, Yep you are a Communist just trying to flood the comment section so no one can see what you truely are.
rtr
You're an ill, unhappy person, rtr. I don't know what you're doing here--maybe a plant, nothing about you adds up to a real person.
==============
Actually Littlehorn I am a very happy person, "A plant you say" “What kind of plant did you have in mind”. Please be more specific will you please? Details would be appreciated.
Plantman
Rtr, despite your insults and your childish tantrums, despite the fact that you don't show me, or anyone else you consider an opponent, respect, I respect you. As a human being with wants and needs and fears, I respect you. As someone who's just as worthy of happiness as I, or anyone else, I respect you. I hope someday you can come to respect yourself and not think that you have to constantly prove your worth. May peace be with you, and may you find it when you need it most.
Bronco
First off, I would just like to thank my good friend Bronco for allowing me to use his spot here for the the honor of speaking with you good folks in Montana. I have read some of the posts here and am a bit disturbed to find one among you who has become so afraid, so angry, and so mentally disturbed by the events in our great nation's recent past. Many here would agree that Laßt uns niemals der Pflicht vergessen, welche wir auf uns genommen haben. This duty, if taken into serious practice by all Americans, will deliver us from those who would maintain their control of our economy and our freedoms. But united we must stand against them, whether they represent the media or corporatism. مداد حبر العالم أقدس من دم الشهيد In regards to the village idiot, allow me to quote Imam Ali bin Abi Talib: "A fool's mind is at the mercy of his tongue and a wise man's tongue is under the control of his mind. " And I do not speak Swahili or Bantu, besides the official language of Kenya is English.
rtr
Bighorn0216 Multiple account names, huh, rtr?
========
Ok so which one have you cloned yourself as, Be honest.
Actually no one cares "littlehorn".
rtr
From glasnost to the 21st century (1989–2000s)
During the 1990s, the party recruited heavily in impoverished minority neighborhoods in the US, particularly in Black neighborhoods. As a result, there are many young Black and Hispanic members of the organization.
The Communist Party USA still runs candidates for local office, although almost exclusively under the Democratic banner. In recent years, the party has strongly opposed the Republican Party in the U.S., who they term "ultra-right" and, at times, "fascist". As part of the party's current strategic line, as outlined in The Road to Socialism USA[2], the CPUSA strongly supports a Democratic Party victory against the Republicans,[citation needed] as they see the Republican Party as a menace to be defeated. The Communist Party still maintains that both parties are capitalist in nature, and only support the Democrats as a means to topple what they perceive as conservative domination in America. Many in the socialist movement disagree with this "lesser of two evils" strategy (some consider it a shocking shift to straightforward capitalism), and it has encouraged some defections from the CP to other leftist groups.
"Sure sounds like the social communists posting here trying to convince us the American Dream is a bad thing now doesn't it".....These people are nothing but ANTI-AMERICAN GARBAGE
Bighorn0216
Multiple account names, huh, rtr? So that's how you morphed from rls to rtr?
And yeah, Frank and Pete really drilled me. When Frank quoted the Nobel criteria, I was speechless, and immediately thought to call Oslo and try to alert the committee that they needed to go to instant replay and read the text carefully and then reconsider, but the lines were busy. Same thing happens when Frank tells us what the Constitution requires and I try to get hold of the Supreme Court to straighten them out.
Pete went to the "LOL" rejoinder, which draws on the linguistic and rhetorical skills of sophomore high school girls (no offense meant to them). It completely knocked the wind out of my sails, and I had to go lie down.
You're an ill, unhappy person, rtr. I don't know what you're doing here--maybe a plant, maybe an amalgam of several people having a little joke on everyone; nothing about you adds up to a real person-- but I hope you're getting some professional help, or at least that you're in a good, warm place. Gonna get colder from here on out. And as they say in the Park, watch out for falling rock.
rtr
Well plantman, You have been made to look like a fool sticking up for your Communism multiple times and now you stick up for a loser like sensible that got caught in the last stupid lie I will deal with this time or anyone elses that believes in the American Dream I bet.
You really need to go hide under the rock you crawled out from under.
Plantman
sensible: thanks for the heads up, I appreciate it. Still, I had pretty well figured out what kind of person I was dealing with (rtr). He's childish and illogical, but I had hoped to find some sort of middle ground with him. Still, I figure I've gotta find the humor in him, or else he'll be nothing but depressing. ;)
rtr
Thanks Frank and one more thing to add might be that it doesn’t take into account those people that sign in under multiple account names to make it look like there are more people that believe like they do in order to make a point for their side when it comes to these political posts.
By the way we are not related that I now of do you Frank as we were accused of by “sensible”, In fact to my knowledge we have never met?
Editor
For the record: The number of posts after each name refers to the total number of posts on the site, not on one story.
rtr
To Bighorn0216, Both Frank and Pete made enough of a fool out of you and your posts "Speaking of a 2x4" that I don't need to coment to you any more.
rtr
To Unsensible, Are you sure that number of posts in this comment section is correct.
If you scroll down it shows SorrySOB with 170 posts and I don't see that many of his posts here do you? "SorrySOB, Posts: 170"
Your HATE and HATEMONGERING is pathetic.
Bighorn0216
Plantman, if you're new here, you should understand that rtr is a fully assimilated Borg. His brain has been replaced with antifreeze. He didn't even try to resist. CareerBuilder recommended "Borg," he applied, and the rest is history.
When you "find it," rtr -- those records of contributions, and any logical connections between them and what happened long before Obama was elected, much less President, oh do tell. Make sure you've got your failed/bailed-out companies and banks in the right columns. Meanwhile, sort out whether you want to complain
about bailing out companies and industries, or about not doing so. You're arguing both sides. But no use telling a 2x4 that it's wood.
sensible
Plantman: take notice.........there are 242 posts. 146 belong to little timmy mcveigh, government hater (rtr). of those 146 posts, over 90% of them include disparaging remarks that have no basis to the conversation at hand. the little boy is sick. he's been barred from this site before, but apparently he's one of frank's relatives......so the insanity continues.
i've engaged him too often. it is no use. he's just a hateful little dweeb craving any attention he can get. a proud representative of what the republican party has become, and why so many (lincoln/eisenhower/teddy roosevelt) moderates have left the party.
continue as you may, but understand the child you're up against.
rtr
You are correct about Bear Sterns BUT it was one of the big three banks had not contributed to Obama that he let fail.
I can't find it right now but will do so later for your viewing pleasure.
rtr
Obama has only bailed out the ones that helped him get elected "FACT".
As for my neighbors it is up to me to help who I want and NOT the government to steal from me and give it to who they want.
That happens to be the Christain way and NOT your COMMUNIST way that you have turned and twisted it into.
Plantman
OK, sorry, couldn't leave this unchallenged.
rtr: "Bear Sterns was HUGE but Obama didn't bail them out..."
"The Federal Reserve's intervention in the collapse of investment bank Bear Stearns has clearly calmed financial markets that recently seemed on the verge of panic." For article, see http://www.usnews.com/money/blogs/flowchart/2008/03/25/what-taxpayers-get-from-the-bear-stearns-bailout.html.
"As for my nieghbors they have two feet and two hands just like 99% of everyone in the nation and they can KEEP what they WORK for BUT I owe them NOTHING."
I'm sorry, I assumed you were a Christian, my fault. I'll stop quoting the Bible as if it meant anything to you.
rtr
I can guess where your thoughts will be going now...TARP and the economic boost programs. Well, what would you do? Allow all these industries, institutions and programs to just collapse? Try to imagine the chaos in the streets if that happened. It's not the government taking over, it's the government keeping the country from economic collapse
-------------
That is BUNK, GM, banks and insurance companies that were saved were the ones that funded Obama and the rest WERE left to fail along with another 200 that are expected to fail yet this year.
Bear Sterns was HUGE but Obama didn't bail them out because they weren't on his campaign list so don't even go there.
Cash for clunkers ring a bell that was NOthing but wealth redistrabution for his Government motors.
As for my nieghbors they have two feet and two hands just like 99% of everyone in the nation and they can KEEP what they WORK for BUT I owe them NOTHING.
Plantman
rtr: Now who said I, or the communists (which aren't the same, btw), are on the same level as Jesus? I said that the Bible clearly points out that we all have certain social responsibilities. Do you refute that? Do you think that you have no responsibility to the poor?
Ah, never mind....this is just flooding the post with our argument. If you want, we can chat about this in some other fashion.
To the rest of you watching the post, my apologies for monopolizing.
Plantman
rtr: Besides, do you NOT think that what's good for you and your neighbors is also good for the country?
Plantman
rtr: ROFL
"Right out of the communist manifesto?" That's so funny. And "your hatred of capitalism?" I really wonder what color the sky is in your world that you could get that out of what I said. Plus, "those w/the drive to excel should be allowed to excel" (my words) pretty much equals "working class people can become rich," don't you think? Aaah....so funny.
But seriously....who is it that's being unreasonable here, huh? You or me? Who's view is so narrow he can't see the possibility of a nation with more than just his own idea of what should be so? I'm not saying that we need to redistribute the wealth, I'm saying that we need to fund the social programs that help people who need help. Social programs that came about because "We the People" thought that they'd be worthwhile, not just because the President said "hmmm....let's throw some money over here."
I can guess where your thoughts will be going now...TARP and the economic boost programs. Well, what would you do? Allow all these industries, institutions and programs to just collapse? Try to imagine the chaos in the streets if that happened. It's not the government taking over, it's the government keeping the country from economic collapse. As to how long the government keeps its fingers in that business, well, we'll have to see, won't we. There's no use accusing it of thinking of doing something that it hasn't even had a chance to do.
rtr
I'm sorry if you feel frustrated about me scoring a point by pointing out Jesus's stand on social responsibility, but I'd appreciate it if you'd stick to refuting what I said rather than simply revert to the "Oh yeah, well you're a stupid-head" argument.
====================
It’s the Communist argument plain and simple to put yourself at the same level as Jesus and then outlaw Christianity once you get into power since your know Communism can not exists with it.
Russia and China are prime examples and BOTH did everything they could to force atheism after taking power and after starting out telling everyone they were just like Jesus and had his same values.
Plantman
rtr: By the way, where has Christianity been outlawed? I've seen no sign of that. I've seen the overzealous take ill-conceived steps to reduce the overt signs of Christianity in public places, but nobody's held any inquisitions with a "recant your religion or face the consequences" ultimatum. I am personally against the de-Christianizing of areas with a strong Christian character, however, I'm all for making our public places as multi-cultural as our population, including honoring different religions.
If "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," then perhaps "We the People" should take that to heart as well. It's one of the things that makes our nation so great, that we can be a diverse people and still get along (though I suppose direct observation might refute that statement). Still, it was the point that the founding fathers were trying to make (remember the religion problems that had gone on in Europe?).
But you're still confusing "Communism" with "Stalinism," under which the government tried to do away with any group who's power might usurp the State's. And even if a Communist were to be elected, even to the presidency, that would hardly mean that the whole country would become a communist dictatorship. Did we all become Democrats when Obama was elected? Or Republicans under Bush?
And that's exactly what Frank want us to believe, that if a communist gets elected, there goes our freedoms. Do you really think this country is that weak? Or that these positions are that powerful? Our government is ordered so that there is a BALANCE of power. There'd have to be a major shift in the SOCIETY before communist ideals could be legislated in this country.
rtr
centrist who believes that what's good for the people is good for the nation.
====================
Sounds like a quote right out of the Communist manifesto with a touch of deciet to me not to mention your hatred of capitalism which is what this country was founded on and not your tax and steal theft with wealth re-distribution from the working class.
Did you ever hear that working class people can become rich too BUT then again NOT with your narrow way of looking at what this country should be TURNED into.
Plantman
rtr: "you communists?" I find it funny you should prove my point like that. Like I said, fear makes people bite. I'm not a communist, I'm not a strict capitalist: I'm a centrist who thinks what's good for the people is good for the nation. But like I said, I ALSO believe that those w/the drive to excel should be allowed to excel.
I'm sorry if you feel threatened by the fact that I scored a point by mentioning the Bible's stand on social responsibility, but still, I'd rather you'd stick to rebutting what I actually said, rather than reverting to the "Oh yeah, well you're a stupid-head" argument.
Plantman
sensible: Yeah, in this case "Clear Channel" means clear of anything that doesn't belong to their corporation. Can you say "monopoly?"
Plantman
rtr: "you communists?" It's funny that you should prove my point with that kind of comeback. Like I said, fear makes people bite. I'm not a communist, I'm not a capitalist, I'm a centrist who believes that what's good for the people is good for the nation. But as I said, I also believe that those with the drive to excel SHOULD be allowed to excel.
I'm sorry if you feel frustrated about me scoring a point by pointing out Jesus's stand on social responsibility, but I'd appreciate it if you'd stick to refuting what I said rather than simply revert to the "Oh yeah, well you're a stupid-head" argument.
sensible
Plantman: good point. perhaps i should of expanded my reasoning for the claim that 1980 brought on the onset of adversarial journalism. as a former journalist, i've witnessed the mega-merger, ultra-consolidation of the media. in 1980, media ownership was limited by 'the rule of 7'. reagan deregulation turned "competitive" media into "monopolistic" media. where a corporation couldn't own more than 7 outlets in 1980 expanded to where clear channel owns around 1600 "public airwave" outlets. now, 5 corporations own 90% of all media (radio, tv, cable, newspaper, magazine, movie, publishing). fewer views are available with less competition. the loss of the "fairness doctrine" had a fairly minor effect, but the refusal of the fcc to enforce the community standard obligations from the original 1920's(republican) statutes is the real problem (more deregulation and lack of enforcement). it is a microcosm of the overall greater problem of corporatism/deregulation that has permeated and controlled our government to a greater extents over the years, eisenhower warned us. mcarthur warned us. and original legislation from 75 years ago addressed the potential of this very problem...............................but money interests won out to the detriment of all.
Bronco
JrRush, don't you have some widows to insult? (I will never forgive you for that unless I see an abject apology) I would say you're a non-caring ******* except that you have managed to care for only your pathetic self. I do find your hate to be unilateral because you do include yourself on that note and justly so. But I understand its source. Such vitriol can only come from a hapless being who was not only created without a soul but is also burdened with knowing that unescapable fact. You embody all that is evil in mankind.
rtr
To Plantman, It never ceases to amaze me how you Communists equate yourselves with Jesus and then when you get into power the first thing you do is outlaw Christianity because you know it is a threat to your existence if people bow down to God instead of your governmental take over of everyone's lives.
Plantman
sensible: [Mutal respect] 'ended in 1980 with the election of ronald reagan."
Actually, according to a piece last month in Time magazine, lack of respect (or at least punditry ala Rush/Beck) goes back pretty much to the beginning of our nation. The difference is that NOW, with instant information (or disinformation) the effects are more widespread. Otherwise reasonable people actually end up BELIEVING that his opinions and innuendos are the TRUTH.
As to why the lack of respect? I don't know...fear is probably at the bottom of it. If a person is afraid that his or her way of life is going to be irrevocably changed, that person will react like any self-respecting wild animal would: by growling and biting. And why are they afraid? It's the fear-mongering ENTERTAINERS (Rush admitted that's all he is, guys); they're the ones who whip up the rank-and-file into a frenzy that the politicians then feel the need to respond to (it's either lead or get trampled at that point). And I'm not just talking about the Right Wing....there's plenty of vitriol on the Left, and I don't approve of that either.
naturalresources: "could you kind , decent fun loving, "Leftwing " liberals please step up to the mirror and take a good look at the real hatemongers on this site." The truth is that BOTH sides are playing the same game, so don't try to imply that "your" side is less to blame.
I'd like to challenge BOTH sides to drop the threats, hate-language, fear-mongering, and ill-conceived comparisons (like Obama=Hitler...Ha!) and start talking about needs, wants and fears in a way that helps us achieve those needs, satisfy the (reasonable) wants, and calm the fears. Let's show the world that our system of government IS the best, that it allows different people w/different beliefs to ALL get what they need to thrive. That sort of thing takes more effort and thought, but is, in my opinion, worth it in the end.
rtr
To Plantman, I would agree that I would hate to see Bush lowered to a standard with that of the Nobel Peace Prize losers.
Mandela, Who has taken the most prosperous country in Africa to a third world status.
Carter, Well I don't know what to say about that idiot. He isn’t even good for a laugh.
Al Gore, Claiming to have invented the internet and then comes out with global warming when in fact the temperatures are cooling, But it works for raising the taxes on the middle class "Cap and Trade" so the Socialists love him.
Obama, Who runs around with terrorists, Claims to be Christian even though it is a black racist church, Has close affiliation to the criminal element of Acorn.
I an just guessing Bush is very thankful not to have been associated with that bunch of scunderals.
rtr
To sensible, Didn't you read my post answering Bronco as to what we stand for or do you just chose to just ignore it?
I will redo it for you to read.
I believe in the Constitution, The Bill of Rights, Making sure our country is safe, People getting what they deserve for what they have worked for, You know just simple things like that.
Unlike you I do not believe in governmental intrusion of our lives, the governmental re-distribution of my wealth, socialism which is almost identical to Fascism with only a slightly different twist which is what we have in control with our government today with the New Socialist Democratic Party.
I fail to see how that makes me a government hater since I know you socialists have scr*wed up so bad in such a short amount of time the majority of your New Socialist Party will be voted out of office in the next elections so there is hope.
Plantman
As to the furor over CNN focusing on a Communist candidate, shall we try to remember that "Communism" was the label the Soviet Union got, what what it really was was a government dominated society where only the elite had plenty, while the masses were fairly equal...in their poverty. I don't' think this is the sort of system the candidate in question has in mind, though if you have proof of it, I'd love to see it.
Furthermore, lest ye of Christian bent forget, Jesus espoused a communist (or at least communalist, if you can't get past the other word) society. Read Acts 2:44-45, Act 4:34-37. And if you want Old Testament material, try Exodus 16:16-18.
Capitalism is a fine system, in my opinion, but I also think that it needs to be balanced with Socialism. Those of lesser means should be cared for by those who's means are greater than their needs. Not that government should step in and take from the rich all but what they need to survive...but neither should the government step in and help the rich to get more and more (which it has been doing for a long time).
A little quote (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=214x196598): "Some years ago, the Brazilian Archbishop and liberation theologian Dom Helder Camara lamented the situation with these words: "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." What would Jesus do?
Plantman
NaturalResources...." Bush should have been considered a candidate for this award long before Obama"? Really? For the Nobell *Peace* Prize, which, as Editor Fran quoted, shall go "to the person who shall have done the most or the best work for fraternity among nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies and for the holding and promotion of peace congresses." Bush decided to go it alone, p*ssing-off more than a handfull of countries (fraternity among nations?), and he increased the standing army at least of the US. And Obama? He hasn't held any peace congresses, but he has certainly promoted them. He hasn't reduced the standing army, but he hasn't taken the hawkish stance Bush did either. According to the info Frank presented, *I'm* not even sure Obama patently deserves the prize, but I know I find it encouraging that he got it (blessed are the peace-makers?)...and I *certainly* know that he deserves it more than Bush.
sensible
little timmy mcveigh: obama is expanding the iraq war?..............that's news to me.
and i've NEVER complained about going after bin laden. remember him?
rtr
To sensible, Obama is expanding the same wars you are complaining about so I fail to see yout point.
Is it that you hate Obama too or is it you just hate everything and have no respect for anything including yourself?
sensible
natres: another bush quote,
"We found the weapons of mass destruction. We found biological laboratories. You remember when Colin Powell stood up in front of the world, and he said, Iraq has got laboratories, mobile labs to build biological weapons. They're illegal. They're against the United Nations resolutions, and we've so far discovered two. And we'll find more weapons as time goes on. But for those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong, we found them." -George W. Bush, May 29, 2003
really.
sensible
little timmy mcveigh (rtr): so much for freedom of religion under "your" constitution. do you hate jews, too? and wasn't the argument last year about rev. wright, obama's christian pastor? can't you hatriots make up your mind..............
the pseudo-christians of today are totally disconnected from the teachings of christ....and your posts prove it. i don't want anything to do with this version of "religion"......pseudo-christians preaching hate and promoting war.
sensible
natres: a couple quotes for you......"Those who give up essential liberties for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
~Benjamin Franklin
May we never confuse honest dissent with disloyal subversion.
~Dwight D. Eisenhower
and another from your nobel candidate george bush, ""Well, first of all, when we walked into the classroom, I had seen this plane fly into the first building. There was a TV set on."
2002 Jan 5, convention center, Ontario, California —
FACT: there was no live broadcast of the first September Eleventh crash (ONLY THE 2ND)- bush lied. he outright lied. this after siiting paralized by fear in front a group of school kids for almost 10 minutes while we were under attack. little chickenhawk bush probably was busy filling his pants and took the next 24 hiding and crying.
sensible
little timmy mcveigh (rtr) the government hater: you can leave at any time.
natres: it is truly sad that you live in such fear. the al-qaeda punks (not iraq) that attacked us were allowed to run free while bush/cheney were busy stealing oil. if that deserves a noble in your opinion...................
rtr
The Nobel committee said of Obama: "Only very rarely has a person to the same extent as Obama captured the world's attention and given its people hope for a better future."
-------------------
Let see Hitler was anominated for the same prize in 1938 also and he was the GREAT hope for the future too with all of Europe, Russia and Asia.
rtr
World at large, BUNK "Muslim nations yes which if you hadn't noticed hate us loved him"
Media at large is all I ever saw that was standing behind him and remember Bush got a standing ovation in Iraq as compared to Obama being BOO'ED off stage.
I am thinnking you should,'t open your door to a con man selling vacum cleaners or you would probably but a dozon of them.
FutureResident
The Nobel committee said of Obama: "Only very rarely has a person to the same extent as Obama captured the world's attention and given its people hope for a better future."
FutureResident
I happened to be in the unique position of traveling across dozens of countries during the last election cycle. I personally was inspired by Obama's vision, but it pales in comparison to the influence he had on the world at large. Like it not, the world was behind this man like no one else in the history of the world. Now, it's not fair to compare to long dead figures, because the access to information has changed. But, it doesn't change the fact that he inspired the world. There was serious disenchantment about Bush and his policies and undeniable excitement about Obama and his vision of hope. I cant' count the times this conversation happened: "Where are you from?" "America" "What do you think about Obama, I think he'll change the world." This is what the Nobel Prize was based on, not the first 12 days in office. What a narrow-minded point of view. As someone has spent a lot of time overseas, I can attest that this enthusiasm was unprecedented. It's a sad day when people find nothing but criticism about the President of the United States winning a prize that embodies the spirit of the promotion of peace. Shame on all of you critics.
Bronco
nat-res, right-wingers want to fight and defend and spread their own form of stern government around the world, they want to conquer. The left would rather evolve and if needs be become a force to inspire others in the world to do the same. The tribalism BS has got to end. It has gotten us nowhere. And JrRush, we are prisoners here by our own accord. This was such a decent room before you entered.
Bighorn0216
Frank, you're the newspaper man, aren't you? Ask the AP yourself what they're on about. You have their number, don't you? Sue the Nobel Committee if you think they've violated the trust. Take it to the Hague. Why should I explain their stated reasons to you? Why should they consult you--or anyone-- before making their decision? They said they wanted to recognize the changed international and diplomatic environment in the past 8 months, and encourage more of the same. There's nothing you can do about it. You're not even in the equation.
Obama was awarded the prize. He said himself, obviously genuinely, that he felt undeserving, that all Americans and all in the world who want peace deserve it. You're acting like he went over and heisted the prize through stealth. He didn't nominate himself, and he's turned the money over to charity, which will reduce the need for that amount to come out of the public treasury to serve that cause in this country. I should think you'd be quite pleased about that.
Imagine a trenchant, willfully embittered minority of a country's bigoted malcontents being outraged that their national leader was internationally honored as a peacemaker. Now imagine that country is America. Now see how close all the incendiary nonsense and malicious baiting has us to the flashpoint of civil ruin.
You want a little respect, Frank, take some lessons from your President. That's right, he's YOUR President. Whether you agree with him or disagree, we're all in the same lifeboat here. You want to punch holes in the hull, you better expect other occupants to respond with forceful and unambiguous resistance.
rtr
Bronco, You need to relax, Your typing is starting to look like mine and you certainly don't want that.
8Th amendment you say, "The latest court cases pertained to prison guards abusing prisoners and the last time I checked you are not my prisoner" "Misquoting the Bill of Rights is not a good thing and makes you sound as ignorant and sensible". Ever hear of the First Amendment which is mine yet today "Not if you Socialists had your way however" and your right NOT to read my posts are always available to you in the Bill of Rights to you know.
naturalresources
For all the accusations of hate bestowed upon the "Right"; could you kind , decent fun loving, "Leftwing " liberals please step up to the mirror and take a good look at the real hatemongers on this site? Over and over again your theme is to belittle those who have legitimate concerns about the future of our country and its relative safety from war mongering freaks in the world who want nothing more than to rid the earth of Americans or " Infidels". What part of the reality is it that you can't bring yourselves to understand? Will you become a believer if another 911 or worse becomes a reality? Bush should have been considered a candidate for this award long before Obama, in my Opinin. His contribution to world peace was geater, by far, than any left wing president . Will Obama throw it all away and further endanger his countrymen? Time will tell.
Bronco
So, rtr- Ready To Rumble, you are in favor of promoting general welfare? And the 8th amendment re: cruel and unusual punishment...warrant enough for your arrest and incarceration you subjecting us to your narrow, hateful and unpatriotic posts.
rtr
To Rawhide, Obama has fixed the problem of wars with the Muslims.
He just signed a bill making September 25, 2009 Islamic Day of Prayer at the White House and he denied any Christian Prayer Day.
I guess we all knew he lied about being a Christain and was a Muslim now didn't we.
It's his way of uniting the USA and the world you know...It's worth the Nobel Prize to be know as the worlds worst leader that has CR*PED on 3/4 of the world.
Rawhide
I find it hard to believe the Nobel selection committee couldn’t find a more deserving person for the Nobel Peace Prize amongst those other 204 nominees. Not only has Obama done nothing to earn or deserve this award, in the future he may very well be remembered for having done more harm than good towards establishing world peace. Sadly, politics appears to have played a big role in this decision, as it did when one of the world’s greatest peace advocates, Mahatma Gandhi, was denied the Nobel Peace Prize despite being nominated for the award 12 times.
rtr
Hey Frank, All your columns are great but with the advent of Obama getting the Nobel Peace Prize it made the comment section absolutely hilarious today "Especially after what you said in a column about conservative would ever get the Nobel Peace Prize" .. "After this one I can't imagine any conservative ever wanting to be associated with it either".......The wife and me haven't laughed this hard in quite awhile at any comment section or the news shows on TV today about Obama.
I guess I owe my whole days enjoyment to Obama…..At least he is good for something…"A laugh".
rtr
Bronco ask, Just what do you all stand for anyway?
===================
Oh the Constitution, Bill of Rights, Making sure our country is safe, People getting what they deserve for what they have worked for "without the government re-distributing my wealth" you know just simple things like that.
Bronco
I don't think Bighorn has to enlighten us on the AP's statement. I for one am proud that our American president received the Nobel Peace Prize. Some of you may think he is not deserving but your vote wasn't asked for nor would it mean squat if it was. Just what do you all stand for anyway?
Pete
Bighorn...Obama's a black man? I'm shocked. LOL
Pete
."..enduring myth the prize is only about accomplishment..."...You sure trumped us with that stunning admission. LOL
Editor
From Alfred Nobel's will (a somewhat less reputable source than AP... or CNN): The Peace Prize shall go "to the person who shall have done the most or the best work for fraternity among nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies and for the holding and promotion of peace congresses." I'm not sure how that translates into "an enduring myth" that the prize is "only about accomplishment" but perhaps Bighorn can enlighten us. See his post below.
sensible
rtr: borrowing from our children and our children's children to give to worthless wall street ceo's offends me. i don't want to raise your taxes or taxes on small business. i want to tax the he!l out multi-nationals that locate offshore to avoid tax responsibilities, i want to tax wall street exec's that pull in $100 million a year at the rate eisenhower taxed them. i want corporate america to pay their fair share. presently they only contribute about 15% of revenues, yet conduct 33% of all business. leave the small guy alone. it's the haliburton's that relocate to al-qaeda country while hanging from the public teat to avoid taxes that bothers me. that is as unamerican as it gets.
Bighorn0216
From the AP: "Comments from Nobel committee members revealed that they fully intended to encourage, not reward. . .. It's an enduring myth that the prize is only about accomplishment — it actually was created as much to supply momentum for peace as to celebrate it."
Which trumps all the "what has he done?" detractors.
A local conservative talk-radio mouth built his whole show this afternoon on the premise that the liberals had jettisoned a sense of reality and achievement. I believe the poster image for his rant should be GWB speechifying in front of the "Mission Accomplished" banner, nearly a decade early, by the time even the soldiers start wondering what the mission is.
sensible
when i was playing college ball or running college track, we always respected our opponents. of course, this was 30+ years ago. we shook hands after the game (competition). we congratulated each other after a good race (play). we helped each other up, even after being "stuck" to the turf by a good tackle ( i was a running back) . their was mutual respect. that ended in 1980 with the election of ronald reagan. my point is the lack of respect shown by right-wingers . the concept of personal destruction, the lee atwater (karl rove) concept has fouled any national discourse on important matters. with fox news and roger ailes (another atwater disciple and reagan staffer) shoveling mud as fast as they can make it, common decency has disappeared from the political dialogue. what a sad group of lost souls these new day republicans have become.
rtr
To sensible, Well then I guess I should say that your party offers more love than I want or need, I can't afford your tax and steal love along with your tax and steal wealth re-distribution, It's just to overwhelming for me..
Now go give your buddies a big group hug.
Bighorn0216
Anyone can be nominated, Raw. It doesn't mean they'll be seriously considered, much less win. I hereby nominate rtr, so that he has a year to try to find Oslo on the map, even though he'll type Oolosh into his search query and decide it must be a Social Democratic cartography prank. By the way, why pose your taunt in the form of a question? Don't you know the answer?
Bighorn0216
This just in: The Nobel Committee, in an abundance of caution, decided to review this thread to see if an error had been made. They decided to increase the prize award by another $1.4 million, in acknowledgment of the annoyance of having to contend with the idiot children who can't sleep at night knowing there's a black man sitting on the furniture in the WHITE house. They believe this will all smooth over more quickly if the whiners and detractors suck on one thumb and sit on the other one. ("In your case, rtr, it's 'as you were.'") / Anyone having trouble understanding the Civil War should study the comments sections after Frank's columns. Instant clarification.
sensible
rtr: i just consider the source. i don't feel bad at all. the party of "endless deficits", the party of "no wmd's", the party of "no bin laden", the party of "no jobs from obscene tax breaks", the party of "warrantless wiretaps", the party of "torture", the party of "NO", is not a party i want to attend.................and for the obvious reasons.
as a demand-side, fiscal conservative who believes in engagement (diplomacy) rather than intimidation (force, threats, and coercion), your party offers nothing ..........except hate.
rtr
When the past nominations were released it was discovered that Adolf Hitler was nominated in 1939 by Erik Brandt, a member of the Swedish Parliament. Other infamous nominees included Joseph Stalin and Benito Mussolini.
Sure looks like to me Obama right up there with his famous and infamous hero's.
SorrySOB
Are you referring to last November's election results Pete? I'm still laughing at that one and will continue to do so for some time. The GOP lost and lost bad and that fact will remain the same no matter how clever you feel your posts are (or in the case or JrRush - how meaningless).
Rawhide
Wasn't British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain also nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize after kissing up to and trying to appease Adolf Hitler just before WWII?
Pete
Don't sweat it SorrySOB....we're laughing with you, not at you.
rtr
Hey Pete, I believe more "nominations for Obama" is great idea and maybe a way to make amends with the Social Fascists here...."Or not"
SorrySOB
Isn't it interesting that a few short weeks ago when Frank wrote the lukewarm article on Sarah Palin and her big "comeback", that the right wingnuts answer to every post was that the left was "afraid" of Sarah. When asked to explain, the response was that "the left is making such a big deal they must be afraid". Guess what, Donald Creese and the rest of you just can't leave this Nobel thing alone can you? It sure appears to be a big deal.
rtr
Oh and by the way sensible don’t feel bad and realize I am not prejudice I feel the same way about all you Social Fascists that are doing everything you can to destroy America and the American Dream so don’t take it personal when I tell you that you need to be a productive part of America instead of looking for handouts.
Yeah, You got it Rawhide.........lol
Hey it's been a fun week "thanks everyone" but I have to go pack for a hunting trip "before the d*mn Social Fascists make me pound my guns into plow shears".
Pete
Rawhide...mmmm....and I thought Bimmer was the only one "out standing in his field".
Pete
socialist....
Pete
There have got to be some other prizes that we can nominate Obama for? Isn't the Heisman coming up? How about the Cy Young? Best Actor Oscar? Cancel American Idol and just have Obama and the New Jersey Public School Choir....the options are endless.
Rawhide
Thank you rtr, et all for explaining what Obama did to deserve this Nobel prize. I've been scratching my head all day. Now I know, Obama was simply "out standing in his field".
sensible
Pete: i'll bet you own a corvette and the manhood associated with it (now that's a "little man".) i'll play your game boys. i'll play. i didn't start it, but i'll play. for evey "socialist" there will a "mcveigh". for every "nazi", the same. again, if you or the "dweeb" want a verbal fight, then prepare to get hit. again, i'd rather discuss issues.
sensible
Pete: i'll bet you own a corvette and the manhood associated with it (now that's a "little man".) i'll play your game boys. i'll play. i didn't start it, but i'll play. for evey "socialist" there will a "mcveigh". for every "nazi", the same. again, if you or the "dweeb" want a verbal fight, then prepare to get hit. again, i'd rather discuss issues.
Pete
Sensible...now, now....sometimes more is less little man.
Pete
Nancy Gibbs, TIME...."Compare this to Greg Mortenson, nominated for the prize by some members of Congress, who the bookies gave 20-to-1 odds of winning. Son of a missionary, a former army Medic and mountaineer, he has made it his mission to build schools for girls in places where opium dealers and tribal warlords kill people for trying. His Central Asia Institute has built more than 130 schools in Afghanistan and Pakistan - a mission which has, along the way, inspired millions of people to view the protection and education of girls as a key to peace and prosperity and progress. Sometimes the words come first. Sometimes, it's better to let actions speak for themselves."....I guess poor Nancy is delusional.
sensible
Pete: do the facts bother you? or is it when i play your game of "feckless exaggerations and mistruths" that bothers you. you timothy mcveigh lovers never cease to amaze me. if you can't assassinate your opponent, you try to impeach him. does that bother you mcveigh lover?
if it's hate speak you wingnuts want, i can give you hate speak. but i would rather discuss issues, but that seems beneath most of you (especially rtr). if that means a place on bimmer's couch, so be it.
it angers me that so much personal hate permeates every discussion on the blog. never have i seen a group of people who hate america and americans so much as today's "foxified" sheeple. so i throw your hate game right back in your face. it is one thing to have issue disagreements, but constant tantrums and personal hatred, whether it be obama, pelosi, gore, clinton, etc are an indication that you have nothing to contribution to meaningful debate or solution based discussion.
us lincoln, roosevelt, and eisenhower moderates have been purged from the republican party. william buckley wouldn't recognize the radical right of today. they are not republicans who believe in country first. they are idealogues who believe in party first and win at any cost. a truly shameful group of "unamericans".
Pete
SorrySOB...that's not choking, that's laughter.
Pete
Bronco...my philosophy in dealing with you. “If you hear that someone is speaking ill of you, instead of trying to defend yourself you should say: "He obviously does not know me very well, since there are so many other faults he could have mentioned"”
Epictetus
Pete
Hey Bronco...I understand bro...you've got to ride for the brand, keep hope alive...etc. You think Avatar is scary you should see my pic. Booo!!!
Pete
Thanks, I knew Obama's "12 Days that Changed the World" itinerary would be out there somewhere, and I also knew the usual suspect would show up to defend his superbowl party resume....awesome laughs...the weekend comes early this week. ;-)
rtr
We should not discount the Kenyans accomplishments prior to becoming president that may have added to this great award.
Let see he ran around with the likes of Ayers the terrorist, Was buddies with Reverend Wright the racists, and was a part of the criminal element of Acorn.
Now lets be fair and put this in perspective.
Mandela won the peace prize after getting out of jail and being elected president of South Africa that with in 6 years of his election he took the most prosperous country in Africa to a third world status with his thugs rapping, kid napping and murdering of it’s citizens and made it to where it is an undesirable place to vacation any more..
I see where we are headed now and why people feel the way I do about our current New Socialist Party in government and the phony Nobel peace prize.
Bronco
And by the way, your hero GW Bush, spent half his presidency clearing brush at his ranch on our dime. We'd have been better off if he had spent the whole of it there.
Bronco
Obama must deserve the Nobel Peace Prize because look at all the right-wingnuts throwing their little tantrums. For me, anything your ignorance opposes I am for. In the forest of your delusions, you guys couldn't find two sticks to rub together to make the ember of a good idea. Shadow avatars....oooooo, scary...but perfect. I'd be ashamed to show my face too if all I had to do in life was to hate."It is better by noble boldness to run the risk of being subject to half the evils we anticipate than to remain in cowardly listlessness for fear of what might happen." -- Herodotus (485 - 425BC) Greek Historian
rtr
To sensible you are amazing, Do you lie to your parents like that too, If so it is no wonder they spanked you till your brains fell out.
There has never been a trillion dollar deficit until the Kenyan started his Social Fascist take over of Wall Street and now the deficit is three trillion and growing.
SorrySOB
Ah yes, a bitter pill to swallow. In fact, I see many of you folks are actually choking on it. Hopefully, there will be many more Nobel prizes. It certainly "kicks the anthill" as Naturalresources likes to say. Look at them come out of the woodwork. And here you were so disappointed when Cheney didn't win Mr. Congeniality in '07.
rtr
How to Win the Nobel Peace Prize In 12 Days
President Obama has broken new ground here. Nominations for potential winners of the 2009 Nobel Peace Prize ended on February 1. The president took office only 12 days earlier on January 20.
Let’s take a look at the president’s first 12 days in the White House according to his public schedule to see what he did to deserve a Nobel Peace Prize:
January 20: Sworn in as president. Went to a parade. Partied.
January 21: Asked bureaucrats to re-write guidelines for information requests. Held an “open house” party at the White House.
January 22: Signed Executive Orders: Executive Branch workers to take ethics pledge; re-affirmed Army Field Manual techniques for interrogations; expressed desire to close Gitmo (how’s that working out?)
January 23: Ordered the release of federal funding to pay for abortions in foreign countries. Lunch with Joe Biden; met with Tim Geithner.
January 24: Budget meeting with economic team.
January 25: Skipped church.
January 26: Gave speech about jobs and energy. Met with Hillary Clinton. Attended Geithner's swearing in ceremony.
January 27: Met with Republicans. Spoke at a clock tower in Ohio.
January 28: Economic meetings in the morning, met with Defense secretary in the afternoon.
January 29: Signed Ledbetter Bill overturning Supreme Court decision on lawsuits over wages. Party in the State Room. Met with Biden.
January 30: Met economic advisers. Gave speech on Middle Class Working Families Task Force. Met with senior enlisted military officials.
January 31: Took the day off.
February 1: Skipped church. Threw a Super Bowl party.
So there you have it. The short path to the Nobel Peace Prize: Party, go to meetings, skip church, release federal funding to pay for abortions in foreign countries, party some more.
Good grief.
Pete
Bimmer...could you please put Sensible on your couch next?
Pete
Now we give awards based on hope and promise? I'll have to let my kids know they don't have to worry about their grades in school...the teachers will give them a passing grade based on hope and promise. :-) Could someone please post Obama's itinerary for the "12 Days that Changed the World"?
Pete
Bimmer....come on now, I don't expect you to give me a break, but at least have a little faith in yourself...you won't be going round and round the sugar beets on Topper forever.
sensible
rtr: you are ignorant. 1980 accumulated deficit - less than $1 billion. after 28 years of "supply-side" economics the deficit inherited by obama was $11 trillion......over $8 trillion from submitted republican budgets. the yearly interest on just republican debt is over $400 billion a year. a legacy of $400 billion in yearly interest to pay for tax cuts given to the wealthy with the promise of jobs. that would have paid for infrastructure repairs and kept the money here. in OUR economy, not commumnist china's..................we've been duped by these false promises for too long.
from your posts it obvious you are not well read, nor well schooled. you are a playground bully with no one else in the playground. verbal thuggery.
why don't you and your other government haters start up a society for your hero. government hater timothy mcveigh. you can plan buildings to bomb. innocent children to kill. go make your point anarchist. go make you mcveigh-like point. hate. hate. hate.
rtr
A man is driving down a country road when he spots Obama standing in the middle of a huge field of grass.
He pulls the car over to the side of the road and notices that
Obama is just standing there, doing nothing, looking
at nothing.
The man gets out of the car, walks all the way out to Obama and asks him, “Ah excuse me mister President, but what are you doing?”
Obama replies, “I’m trying to win a Nobel Prize.”
“How?” asks the man, puzzled.
“Well I heard they give the Nobel Prize to people who are
just standing in a field looking stupid now days and I think I have a really good shot at it.”
Pete
Could we please get those school kids from Jersey to sing at Obama's acceptance ceremony? It doesn't matter what their parents think....get them anyway. They could do the show on MSNBC or CNN...Didn't CNN have some kids on the other day singing Obama's praises? I find it so ironic that the left in this country screams against religion in school and then promotes Obama worship, is so afraid of big business that they hand control to the government, and it goes on and on...The effect of almost every liberal policy is the exact opposite of the intended outcome. Look up "Death Speaks" by W. Somerset Maugham, it illustrates the point perfectly.
rtr
To sensible, You say offer solutions.
First off the country wasn't broke untill you social facists stated getting a foot in the door.
Second off I did offer up a solution to the problems you all have created bur unfortunealy you just chose to ignore them...."The ship is awaiting your departure however".
rtr
I understand Pete, As I bow down to the holly mans feet. “Messiah Obama”
I also heard Obama got that awsomely huge award, They made a slight change this year however and all the Acron employees got lttle peace prizes too.
Peace prize.
Carter = Worst and dumbest president in history.
Al Gore = Dumber than a box of rocks and lies about global warming.
Obama = Biggest liar ever get elected, Worst president even topping Carter.
He's in a group all of his own that's for sure.
Bighorn0216
I hope the polarized Nobel "debate" can take place quickly here, now, so that there will be no need for a new column on it. NatR, your list of "reasons" why Obama isn't deserving of the award is all made-up stuff, so it leads to no meaningful or useful conclusion. Every commentator, including past prize winners, has acknowledged that it is very early. And every one of them (well, of course, I haven't heard what Rush's spin will be on it today--perhaps he'll be in a congratulatory mood) also acknowledges that the prize reflects the promise and hope that the world finds in even Obama's early performance, at a time when promise and hope has been in pretty short supply for, oh, about 8 years. That's the sum and substance of the story, and "debate" over entitlement is churlish and childish. To those of you here who think otherwise, take some solace in the fact that the prize money is taxable income and will help fund the bailouts, unless Obama directs it toward a tax-exempt, charitable organization (which he almost certainly will.)
sensible
so, obama and carter and gore win nobels. krugman and stiglitz won economic nobels. and the radical right vilifies them all. the rest of the world honors them, right-wingers demonize them. what a bunch of patriots....or should i say "hatriots". the lack of respect shown to the office of the president, the speaker, or anyone with opposing views (nobel laureates) is grade school nonsense. children. lying cheating delinquent children behave better than you "wrong-wingers", because there is nothing "right" about the way you collectively behave. dissent is fine. free speech is fine. but these ceaseless tantrums just because youi lost an election are shameful. in 2012, you'll get your chance. but that's not soon enough, is it. you insist on trying to bring down our country by destroying the office of the president, by shouting lies in the hallowed halls of congress, and threatening impeachment for everyone who disagrwees. children. misbaving children. grow up "wrong- wingers" and offer solutions.
Pete
I hear my wife chuckling this morning in front of the computer and I as her what's so funny and she says, "Obama won the Nobel Peace Prize". Then I start to laugh. Obama and the 12 days that changed the world. I just visited a sight that showed his itinerary for those 12 days...lots of post inagural parties and on the last day he rested...ahhh. RTR quit trying to prove he has a birth certificate...God doesn't have one.
sensible
natres: were you born jan. 20, 2009? was there no "world" before this date? this claim, "(obama) reduces our economy to rubble'', is so out of touch with reality it's laughable. bush took a budget surplus of over $200 billion (that if continued, would have retired our indebtedness to china, japan, and saudi arabia - borrowed ss funds not included) and turned it into yearly trillion dollar deficits. and, for the last 14 months of his term job losses were staggering - the worst since the great depression. THEN, obama took office. he inherited an economy hemmoraging jobs and mired in debt. causing a situatiion that very seldom occurs - government revenues actually decreased!! usually, revenues still increase during recessions due to "growth" defined in both terms of inflationary influence and population increases. and you blame obama. that's like blaming the ambulance driver when he arrives at the scene of accident. "it's the ambulance driver's fault. if he/she wasn't here there wouldn't be an accident". your logic is twisted, sick ,inaccurate and hateful. grow up and turn off fox.
SorrySOB
Yes Donald, we know you are an expert at copying and pasting. Sitting on your ample behind up there in Haywire Gulch. By the way, do you still have that funky silver beard of yours? Why don't you give it up and find something better to do like give your email out on singles looking for fun topics. Pity the fool that answers that one.
naturalresources
Sooo.... Obama wins the Nobel Peace Prize..... following in Carters footsteps. Big O bashes the U.S every chance he gets , blames us for all the worlds' problems, reduces our economy to rubble , which puts the rest of the world in serious jeapordy pertaining to survival ; i.e world aid for disasters, military backup to friendly nations, starvation exposure to countries previously dependent on the generosity of wealthy and middle class citizens/ taxpayers of the U.S.....the list goes on. Now he can't make up his mind whether to win the war in Afganastan or throw the Middle East to the wolves....and he collects a wall certificate for his Peace efforts. Wow... sort of diminishes the credibility of the Authorizing agents. I guess one could say his efforts as a "community organizer" haven't gone unnoticed by the Nobel Peace Prize committee.
Bighorn0216
rtr, believe me, we can tell when you're you, and when you're plaigarizing. By the way, in your "own" stuff, when you put a garbled sentence in "quotes," is that you talking, or one of your little voices? And who is talking the other times?
rtr
Obama's socialist backing goes back at least to 1996, when he received the endorsement of the Chicago branch of the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) for an Illinois state senate seat. Later, the Chicago DSA newsletter reported that Obama, as a state senator, showed up to eulogize Saul Mendelson, one of the "champions" of "Chicago's democratic left" and a long-time socialist activist. Obama's stint as a "community organizer" in Chicago has gotten some attention, but his relationship with the DSA socialists, who groomed and backed him, has been generally ignored.
benznd
Pete, I am just sure that your mother loved you very much and told you daily how smart her little boy is. Dress him up, send him to school. He is such a smart little boy, isn't he? Can anyone say "Peter Pan Principal?" And Pete, perhaps, just perhaps, some things are just about as good as they will ever be. UN, a prime example. Aspirin. Your mattress. Me. Our Country. Your logic.
benznd
I have been holding back folks. Holding back! On what? Well, constructing a personality profile of computer data "engineers." Why would anyone think this building project is necessary? From my perspective folks, I owe it to humanity. RTR/S's personal constitution was/is adaptive in nature, having evolved over time. RTR/S? Meet your peers. Yes, first grade, peers. Rejection. Based on, ah, what? Language and preacademic skill deficits. Not his fault I tell ya. Individuals such as RTR/S represent the type of youngsters who struggle with humiliation and social rejection. Unfortunate circumstances. "That's me in the corner, that's me in the spot light, losing my religion." Man/machine interface vs. man/man interaction. Product? Abandonment, resentment, detachment. Society does not function in the vacuum of black/white interface. Reality rears its ugly head. You RTR/S, are now responsible for who you are and what you are, regardless of why. Think about it the next time you are "driven" to call people "Social Fascists" as we, universal we, think you are pathetic. Pathogenic.
Bighorn0216
Just quit interacting with this fanatic lunatic. He's installed a firewall in his brain and no useful information or discourse gets in or out. He's not going to "get it," even if Clarence Darrow himself gets in here to make the argument. He's not able to process the information, or the argument. That's why half his posts read like an adolescent's tantrum and the other half cut-and-pastes from right-wing blogs (which of course he doesn't provide any credit for, apparently imagining that everyone assumes he's being original). He doesn't have a middle ground for analysis synthesis. He wasn't born with one. It isn't going to help to keep engaging him. He's impervious to logic, rhetoric and reason. / The "birther suits" touted earlier are having a lot of luck. Now being routinely dismissed as frivolous, with sanctions awarded even against the lawyers bringing them. Losers. / Hey, rtr: "New Shimmer"--dessert topping, or floor wax? / That should keep him occupied for the evening, at least.
rtr
To sensible you are just being stupid so I will just go back to posting facts that any minimally educated person can understand "Obviously not you" pointing out how you Social Fascists are destroying the United states economy and the AMERICAN DREAM DO TO YOUR HATERED OF THE USA...
sensible
The Homestead Act was a United States Federal law that gave an applicant freehold title to 160 acres (1/4-1 section) of undeveloped land outside of the original 13 colonies. The new law required three steps: file an application, improve the land, and file for deed of title. Anyone who had never taken up arms against the U.S. Government, including freed slaves, could file an application and improvements to a local land office. The Act was signed into law by ....President Abraham Lincoln... on May 20, 1862. eventually 1.6 million homesteads were granted and 270,000,000 acres (420,000 sq mi) were privatized between 1862 and 1986, a total of 10% of all lands in the United States.[7]
LINCOLN WAS A SOCIALIST.........GOVERNMENT GIVE-AWAY PROGRAMS.......ALERT THE AUTHORITIES. LINCOLN WAS A REPUBLICAN COMMY. HE GAVE LAND TO FREED SLAVES. (KENYANS)............SOCIALIST!!!
sensible
rtr: "Under Bill Clinton In 1992, A democratically controlled Congress........". really. bill clinton was president in 1992. bill clinton, elected in november of 1992, inaugarated in january of 1993 was president with a democraticlly controlled congress in 1992. must be a time warp.
so it took 10-12 years for these loans to default? one would naturally question where the decade of equity went.
next - 'BANK REGULATORS breathed the first real life into enforcement of the Community Reinvestment Act, a 20-year-old statute meant to combat “redlining” by requiring banks to serve their low-income communities."
a 20-year old statute. not clinton's statute. a 20-year old statute. and all he did was require it be followed. every president since fdr has championed low-income home ownership. bush referred to it as "an ownership society", and appointed regulators to specifically not regulate..............
don't you ever lie so obviously that a grade schooler can call you on it. clinton, president in 1992.............that's so funny it hurts.
rtr
There is your information now will you please quit just trying to be difficult when it is so easy to come up with the facts about who started the subprime "Melt down we have today" and that it was Bill Clinton that forced it to happen do to corupption just like Acorn and the rest of you social facists.
rtr
Under Bill Clinton, BANK REGULATORS breathed the first real life into enforcement of the Community Reinvestment Act, a 20-year-old statute meant to combat “redlining” by requiring banks to serve their low-income communities. The administration also has sent a clear message by stiffening enforcement of the fair housing and fair lending laws. The bottom line: Between 1993 and 1997, home loans grew by 72% to blacks and by 45% to Latinos, far faster than the total growth rate.
Under Bill Clinton In 1992, A democratically controlled Congress mandated that Fannie and Freddie increase their purchases of mortgages for low-income and medium-income borrowers. Operating under that requirement, Fannie Mae, in particular, has been aggressive and creative in stimulating minority gains. It has aimed extensive advertising campaigns at minorities that explain how to buy a home and opened three dozen local offices to encourage lenders to serve these markets. Most importantly, Fannie Mae has agreed to buy more loans with very low down payments–or with mortgage payments that represent an unusually high percentage of a buyer’s income. That’s made banks willing to lend to lower-income families they once might have rejected.
This stinks of the same corruption as Acorn and the Kenyan.
sensible
rtr: enough!! i quoted from your article. i read it. name the regulations clinton instituted. the article says NOTHING about clinton regulatin. the article is all about fed power of deregulation usurping attempts by states to regulate. i can read.
besides an inability to spell, you obviously have an inability to read. HERE AGAIN, FROM YOUR ARTICLE:
"He (hawke) said he would reinforce federal policies that hindered states from reining in lenders."..........Federal officials brushed aside their concerns. The OCC and its sister agency, the Office of Thrift Supervision (OTS), instead sided with lenders. The beneficiaries ranged from now-defunct subprime factories, such as First Franklin Financial, to a savings and loan owned by Lehman Brothers, the collapsed investment bank.
HOW THE HE!L IS THIS REGULATION???? what part of "federal policies that hindered states from reining in lenders."..........Federal officials brushed aside their concerns.", don't you understand. what part don't you understand.
for months right-wingers have insisted clinton forced banks to make bad loans.........and never one bill mentioned, never one. even greenspan said it was not true. bernanke said it was not true. prove it!!! prove it!!! but you can't.
now go change your diapers and get back in your corner where you belong.
rtr
No sensible I did NOT lie and YOU just backed up what I stated about Clinton starting it but where you are wrong is that Clinton REGULATED that Wall Street had to give out those subprime loans….”Admitted to on National TV MSNBC by Bill Clinton”
I am not sure if you can't read your own information or what but you need to re-read it.
IT was Clintons FORCED REGULATION making the banks give out subprime loans so the New Socialist Party could get more votes from the ghetto just as corrupt as Acorn and the Kenyan.
sensible
rtr: read that article...............YOU LIE!! the article states that clinton deregulated. it also is from a 2003 meeting with oocc chair hawke, well past clinton term ended. here's another quote from your article.
He (hawke) said he would reinforce federal policies that hindered states from reining in lenders. The AGs left the tense hour-long meeting realizing that Washington had become a foe in the nascent fight against reckless real estate finance. The OCC "took 50 sheriffs off the job during the time the mortgage lending industry was becoming the Wild West," Cooper says......Federal officials brushed aside their concerns. The OCC and its sister agency, the Office of Thrift Supervision (OTS), instead sided with lenders. The beneficiaries ranged from now-defunct subprime factories, such as First Franklin Financial, to a savings and loan owned by Lehman Brothers, the collapsed investment bank. ....North Carolina and Georgia, passed laws aimed at deterring rash loans only to have federal authorities undercut them. In Iowa and other states, mortgage mills arranged to be acquired by nationally regulated banks and in the process fended off more-assertive state supervision.
THE WHOLE ARTICLE IS ABOUT DEREGULATION BY THE FEDS AND THEM USURPING STATE OVERSIGHT. just like i said, clinton was a deregulator.
YOU LIE!! rtr. YOU LIE!!
rtr
Lee see here.
Three trillion in deficit for TARP to socialize the country and take over "Kenyan Motors, Insurance companies, Banks and other un-known institutions" that has all happened under the Kenyan and the New Socialist Democratically controlled Party.
This same pathetic behaviors cost us an extra ten year of depression when Roosevelt did the same thing. ”Oh yeah another one of your socialist hero’s”
I have a question for you, Why do you HATE the United States of America so much, "Be honest"... Were you born a Social Fascist with leftest leaning Communist beliefs or did you aquire them from some liberal loonitic like Manson?
rtr
To sensible I just posted the truth for you to see from Clinton's banking industry lawyer.
What more do you need and you are capable of looking up the details young lady because it even gets a lot uglier as to what Clinton did to cause the subprime melt down and like I stated he admitted to in on National TV "MSMBC" What more do you need.
Talk about name calling.
You are like the pot calling the kettle black aren’t you?
The problem with you is that you are NOT use to people calling you out on YOUR lies are you.?
sensible
rtr: clinton was a deregulator.............just like reagan and bush's. i've always stated that. he signed the repeal of glass steagall (it got 1 dem. vote in the senate and no dem votes in the house). he supported greenspan and summers philosophy of deregulation. he was a corporatist, just like reagan and the bush's. the difference was, he didn't introduce deficit laden budgets. he balanced the budget. and bush quickly put us back into deficits...........with little economic growth (sustained) to show for it............as a matter of fact, he presided over the biggest economic collapse since the great depression. he had a republican congress until jan 2007, and veto power after that. prove what bill congress passed since then that caused this mess. you can't. because there isn't any.
sensible
rtr: prove the hawiian birth certificate is fake..............prove it, punk. prove clinton and his republican congress forced no-doc and stated income loans on poor people. prove it, punk. show some proof.............otherwise stuff it. your hate "stew" is calling. good riddance, punk.
sensible
Pete: i believe in keynesian economics and that article 1 section 8 of the constitution means something. every competition needs rules and refs. and capitalism is competition. to suggest mayhem, no rules, is pure folly. that doesn't equate to a government monopoly.........or industry monopolies either. i agree small business needs help, but it isn't small businees that caused this mess. again, according to greenspan, it was wall street greed while overseers looked the other way (thanks george bush for appointing corporate sheep as regulators) that brought our economy down. AND AGAIN, I REPEAT, NO LAW REQUIRED NO-DOC OR STATED INCOME LOANS. CLINTON AND HIS REPUBLICAN CONGRESS DID NOT REQUIRE THESE LOANS. also, fannie has been around since the 1930's (freddie since the 70's) and worked fine until reagan "deregulation" .
rtr
To sensible this was Clintons REGULATION that Wall Street had to follow even though they did NOT want too.
Hawke, a veteran banking industry lawyer appointed to head the OCC by President Bill Clinton in 1998, wouldn't budge. He said he would reinforce federal policies that hindered states from reining in lenders. The AGs left the tense hour-long meeting realizing that Washington had become a foe in the nascent fight against reckless real estate finance.
"Bill Clintons and all of his appointees were corrupt and in on it" when it came to the economic meltdown we are in now.
sensible
Pete: you've got to be kidding...........over-regulation? on wall street? too many overseers? there may be regulations, but no enforcement by the foxes at the henhouses. there are few economists who agree with you............even greenspan disagrees with you. or do you not take his statement (following) as fact?
Republican lawmakers on the oversight committee tried to blame the mortgage meltdown on the unchecked growth of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the giant government-sponsored mortgage-finance companies. But Mr. Greenspan, who was first appointed by President Ronald Reagan, placed far more blame on the Wall Street companies that bundled subprime mortgages into pools and sold them as mortgage-backed securities. Global demand for the securities was so high, he said, that Wall Street companies pressured lenders to lower their standards and produce more “paper.”
“The evidence strongly suggests that without the excess demand from securitizers, subprime mortgage originations (undeniably the original source of the crisis) would have been far smaller and defaults accordingly far lower,”
further, "Bernanke said that system-wide oversight, something known as "macroprudential regulation" is required, and that the Fed could be the home for that."
rtr
My dear friend Bronco, I was unaware anyone was twisting your arm and forcing you to read my posts "Please let me know who is controlling you and forcing you to do this awfull thing" or is it that you don't want anyone else to see the truth about your political dream which I am pointing out has failed in all the countries it has been implemented in and yet for some perverse reason you want us to go down that same failed path of other countries.
rtr
Socialism is a method of governing where the government controls goods and resources "Kenyan motors, AIG, Banks and etc." and decides for the people who needs what and everyone will work for the good of the people "Kenyan Health Care" as oppsoed to their own wants/needs. It's unrealistic as it discounts human nature (hence why the Soviet Union failed and China is becoming capitalist)
Social Fascisim is a method of governing that implies total government control and oppression of all dissenting opinions. "Bronco, Denouncing freedom of speech to conservatives"
Capitalism is a method where individuals and companies control the distribution of goods and market forces. It drives competition and innovation as people act on the basic human nature..."The great American Dream"
Bronco
Point is, rtr, the birth certificate is a non-issue since it has been documented and proven but you just can't seem to let it go. Try posting without using the words Kenyan, socialist, communist, fascism, tax and steal, liberal loons, and birth certificate. Are you a DJ for AM radio? We just hear the same songs over and over and over and over. People lose patience after awhile and turn to FM.
rtr
Ok Bronco I'll will play along.
I am not running for a public office especiallty not the highest office in the land so my birth certificate is none of your business unlike that of anyone that runs for a public office of any kind..
Talk about name calling, filthy mouth, and domineering you win those awards......I am sure sensible is proud of you for that however....."Sounds like social fascism to me"
Bronco
Pudding? Too bad freedom of speech includes idiocy. Instead of CLBR number I get incoherency? What are you hiding, rtr? Produce your birth certificate, big mouth.
rtr
What's the matter Bronco, You don't like me pointing out that YOUR socialism and fascism are one in the same.
Note: It clearly states that Socialists and Fascists want freedom of speech taken away and now you are telling me to shut up........."I guess the proof is in the pudding alright"
Bronco
Show us your birth certificate, JrRush. Just the CBR number in the lower right corner will do. Give it up or shut TF up.
rtr
I did not make this comparison glibly. Taken in full historical context, with full consideration of philosophic principle, socialism and fascism are essentially the same.
To know what socialism and fascism are, let us begin by examining some historical examples of each. Fascist states have included Hitler's Germany, Mussolini's Italy, Tojo's Japan, Franco's Spain, Pinochet's Chile, and possibly Peron's Argentina. If we were to focus on each of these concretes, we would observe numerous differences. For instance, Hitler's Fascism was racist. Mussolini's was not. Mussolini's fascism involved belligerent nationalism. Franco's did not. What unites each of these concretes into a group of similars can be seen in a common definition of fascism: "A governmental system with strong centralized power, permitting no opposition or criticism, controlling all affairs of the nation (industrial, commercial, etc.)"
"This sure sounds firmilar with what the New Socialist Democratic Party of America is doing today"
Pete
"How good is the United Nations at reforming itself? Not good at all, according to a lengthy study this year by U.N. investigators of a grandiose, five-year effort to streamline and coordinate the performance of a $778 million U.N. bureaucracy that is supposed to do what diplomats like to do best: hold meetings." ....Lets give them some more money, they're too big to fail. And like Robert Reich says, "Rather than worry about government spending too much I'd worry quite, frankly, about government spending too little."
Pete
Sensible...you seem to believe a government monopoly is the answer. I would disagree with you that de-regulation caused this problem....I think over-regulation did. Small companies cannot compete with the plethora of government mandates put in place by well meaning politicians. Like weed killer on a lawn, over-regulation and over taxation keeps small or seed businesses from developing while the established businesses have the means to meet these obligations and are virtually immune by virtue of their size and soon develop into vast monopolies. The big corporations aren't dumb...they know the easiest way to beat the competition is for the government to make it too difficult and costly for their competition to get started in the first place. So what do they do? They contribute to politicians who put more and more regulation in place. Do I think the insurance industry and wallstreet need regulations? You bet...they should have to be able to cover the business they have written and should only be able to speculate with profits. But I also think that government mandates on low income loans is bad business as well and was a spark that ignited the housing crisis.
rtr
To sensible, Why do you continue to tell lies?
First off there would NOT be a law suit against the Kenyan if he had presented an authentic birth certificate..."The birth cert the Kenyan give out was a copy of some piece of garbage that can not be discerned one way or the other".
The law suit wouldn't even be allowed in court if what you stated was correct.
Like I stated I just want to see the real one if he has one and so do a lot of other people.
I will say this he lied about everything he campaigned on and stands right up and gives speeches to the people of the USA that are OUTRIGHT lies that he gets called on so it makes me wonder more all the time if he didn’t lie about his birth certificate also.
I will explain one more time that it is NOT name calling when I call you a SOCIALIST which in my opinion is UN-American.
This country was FOUNDED ON A REPUBLIC of freedoms and we fought against the exact same kind of SOCIALISM you want reinstated and if you truly had your way it would involve COMMUNISM..
At the present time however you and your phony New Socialist Party democrats have only been able to get the beginning of a Fascist state which started with Roosevelt but has been expanded to corporate take over’s by the likes of the Kenyan today.. “Auto industry, Insurance companies, Banks and various other institutions.
You know if you spent more time looking for a job than you do blogging you to could become a productive part of society.
sensible
further.......from Simon Johnson, a professor of entrepreneurship at M.I.T.’s Sloan School of Management, and the former chief economist at the International Monetary Fund.
Brandeis (noted 19th century economist) was right on the politics of size and what that meant in turn for the American economy ...."When large companies can 1) shape their regulatory environment, 2) take advantage of lax regulation to take on more risk than they can manage, and 3) “put” the downside losses onto the taxpayer, we should be very afraid.
Teddy Roosevelt thought you could regulate and control monopolies, and his idea that “big corporate” could be controlled by “big government” was taken forward with some success by Franklin Roosevelt, in the reforms of the 1930s and the way our system operated for 30 to 40 years after World War II. But the complete breakdown of financial regulation under great political pressure in the 1980s and 1990s should serve as a wake-up call, both with regard to banking and much more broadly.
THIS IS WHAT THE INTELLIGENT PEOPLE TALK ABOUT - somehow we're still discussing lame socialism and communism claims. retarded.
sensible
and finally...........this incessant characterization that policies other than failed "supply-side" lunacy are somehow communist or socialist is intellectual dishonest and reeks of gutter politics. public works programs are not communism. bridges (that are crumbling) need repair - NO, IT'S COMMUNISM!!. an electric grid that is outdated needs updating - NO, IT'S COMMUNISM!!. dam repair/maintenance - NO, IT'S COMMUNISM!!. road maintenance - NO, IT'S COMMUNISM!!......................................i guess our only solution is to continue to borrow money and shovel it to our nation's wealthiest. they'll take care of everythijng. shovel more money to millionaires - they won't let wall street crumble, they'll create jobs!!! see all the jobs!! they're everywhere!!! shovel more borrowed money to the wealthy - that ALWAYS works......GAG.
sensible
Pete: you are correct about baucus and the other "blue dog" dems. they sold out to the insurance industry, joining the whole republican party. the super majority in the senate is now the corporatists with "blue dog" dems running the show. and it has been shameful in my opinion to see obvious corporate corruption continue in the halls of congress. i wanted change. corporate america (wall street, multi-nationals, and military/industrial complex) has taken control. i want it given back to "real" people. no more government-granted personhood (that's what a corporation is). they are not persons and their money is not speech......it is bribes.
sensible
rtr: obama's hawiian birth certificate has been available for months. it has been authenticated by hawiian officials (2 birth announcements in local newspaper archives are also available for your inspection). the fact that you and your birther buddies ignore it is because it disproves your lunatic claims...........remain clueless and ignore evidence. if you are unwilling to even examine his birth certificate is not obama's fault, it is yours. now jump back into your pool of hate and come back with more name-calling.................................child.
sensible
Pete: millions of americans are still waiting for all those jobs to be created from the bush tax cuts for millionaires. let's see, that was late 2003. by late 2007, well before the election or even a nomination, unemployment starting tanking (where were those jobs?)......and has continued since. bush had 14 months of staggering job losses before he left office. has the situation improved? job losses are down, but there is no economic spark. do you suggest more tax cuts to millionaires? more failed supply-side stimulus? our problem is demand, not supply. we don't need inventories sitting in warehouses, we need demand (more money in purchasers pocket - not providers pockets).
Pete
Everyone can sleep easy tonight......"House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid met with President Obama Wednesday to discuss job creation and the economy following last week's report that the unemployment rate had climbed to a 26-year high of 9.8 percent." ...because the Holy Trinity are on the job.
rtr
Bighorn0216, So what you are saying is that you want to be able to have the “New Socialist Party of America” be able to take over and spread lies without anyone confronting you and with any luck you will get some unsuspecting person coming into the comment section and read your lies and start voting like the Acorn company found so many dupes to vote for the Kenyan.
By the way when the Kenyan shows his true Birth certificate I will address him as Obama but until then I have every right to call him the Kenyan.
Personally I think it is a 50 / 50 chance as to whether he is or is not a US citizen but until he shows us the certificate he is NOT my president.
In the times we live in now it is a matter of giving up your freedom to a growing Fascist Party better known as the New American Socialist Party today which was formally born and better known as the Democratic party.
Hey, Thanks for patting me on the back for living the American Dream, Let’s just hope more young people start waking up and doing it instead of looking for handouts from my tax dollars and start understanding that there is NO free lunch anywhere and it is their freedoms that are being taken away by socialists like you.
Bighorn0216
And, finally, this unmonitored "dialectic" has become banal and pointless in the conversations about the country and the county--though sometimes that seems the goal of the columns. The response rate to the column topic itself is usually about, oh, 5% on topic. What's the use? I give up on this. P.S. to rtr: . . . oh, forget it.
Bighorn0216
rtr, I tried earlier, elsewhere, to give you a pass, on compassionate grounds, and I'm still willing to do so. "I don't know" what "trouble" you've had in your life, whether "organic," "hereditary," or "chemical," to bring you to your current state of froth-flecked invective, but you obviously have a "lot of time on your hands," and a "laptop," so waste the rest of your life on these threads. Or not. You know, you could actually choose otherwise, and rest, and read, and think. You don't have to write. You don't have to sign on. You worked a good career, you're being rewarded in it with your 401(k) and pension (and the possession of firearms you've mentioned in other threads--you go, Warrior), so why not take a few deep breaths, watch a few college football classics, and enjoy your fugue. He*l, I wish I could, but I'm a working stiff, still trying to earn my pension and meds. (Actually, I've earned them, but every year in raises the stakes, "know what I mean?") By the way, "I challenged you to prove" "the Kenyan" was "Kenyan" and you still haven't, guess that proves you're "full of it," know what that means?
rtr
Hey Pete, You wouldn't be trying to point out that Baucus "The democrat" is just as corrupt as Bill Clinton "The democrat" with making the banks give out loans that can't be paid back or Obama "The democrat" trying to force socialized medicine on us and then lie about the taxes us middle class will have to pay?
I sure hope not because I just love the fact that I know I have a stake in "GM, AIG, To many banks to name and everything else that they won't even tell us about".
I expect my tax refund to be huge next year do to all the money the government will make for me.
SorrySOB
Donald, I thought you had left (or should I say tileman?). You should stay in Haywire Gulch where you belong.
rtr
There you with critiquing my spelling in order to cause a diversion when you know you got caught in another BOLD faced lie.
Sorry sensible but you really are pathetic.
Pete
I see the Baucus' plan will cost 829b over 10 years but will save 81b over the next ten years. This math sounds so good to the libs they are ready to mandate you get insurance and if you don't, they'll send the insurance cops after you to collect. Awesome racket if you can pull it off. Now who's in bed with the insurance companies? Maybe that's why Baucus has that silly grin on his face.
rtr
Hawke, a veteran banking industry lawyer appointed to head the OCC by President Bill Clinton in 1998, wouldn't budge. He said he would reinforce federal policies that hindered states from reining in lenders. The AGs left the tense hour-long meeting realizing that Washington had become a foe in the nascent fight against reckless real estate finance.
"Bill Clintons and all of his appointees were corrupt and in on it" when it came to the economic meltdown we are in now.
Your only saving grace is that Bush didn't put a stop to it either BUT Clinton started it.
Pete
DavidS...it really doesn't matter the path you take to statism the end result is always the same. Loss of freedom, repression, etc. Absolute power corrupts absolutely....and I see you conveniently forgot to mention the "Internment Camps" for Japanese Americans put into place by Roosevelt by Executive Order 9066...it was actually Reagan who signed an official apology in 1988. But I'm sure you didn't overlook that fact intentionally?
sensible
rtr: what? are you human? "concider" is not a word. "useing" is not a word. and you are not worth the time of day..........end of session.
rtr
To sensible, You are the one that is lthe liar and you can look it up on MSNBC where Clinton was interviewed.
Why is it that you socialists have to lie in order to get anyone to follow you.
Oh yeah, Hitler did the same thing and it worked for him too.
rtr
To sensible, If you concider me useing the word socialist name calling you would be incorrect.
The democratic party today is the "New Socialist Party" and if you don't like or agree with that then you are denouncing your own party.
sensible
rtr: first - clinton had a republican congress from 1994 on..........read some history so you don't sound so ignorant. second - no law required no-doc or stated income loans......"YOU LIE!!...rtr....YOU LIE!!". third - alan greenspan, former fed chairman says you are liar, too in his following statement, "“The evidence strongly suggests that without the excess demand from securitizers, subprime mortgage originations (undeniably the original source of the crisis) would have been far smaller and defaults accordingly far lower,” .......Global demand for the securities was so high, he said, that Wall Street companies pressured lenders to lower their standards and produce more “paper.”...............got that little ignoramus - wall street pressured banks. NO LAW REQUIRED THOSE LOANS YOU REFERENCED. NOW, GET A LIFE AND QUIT LYING......OR BETTER YET, MOVE TO TEXAS SECEDE WITH THE OTHER WINGNUTS.
rtr
Hey Frank, How about writing a column on the similarities between Nazi Germany and what is going on with Obama and the Democratically controlled congress today.
First off it takes very little research and yet would open some peoples eyes to even more of what the scoundrels in Washington are doing.
I do believe it would make for an out standing article.
sensible
rtr said: "To sensible, Here is the solution, Ship all you socialists and communists that live here to China and repeal all your socialist laws that you have been able to get on the books today.".........................HOW OLD ARE YOU? MY GUESS IS 7. MAYBE 8. IS IT AT ALL POSSIBLE TO CARRY ON DIALOGUE WITHOUT NAME-CALLING? GROW UP!!!!
rtr
By the way DavidS, I asume you were first in line for your cash for clunckers so you could buy your Government Motors car "GM".
Yep Nazi's and democrats are identical for sure.
rtr
Nazi Social Welfare
Advertisement for state-engineered Kdf-Wagen. Commonly known then and afterwards named the Volkswagen (People's Car), as it was designed to be an inexpensive automobile which every German citizen could be able to purchase.Recent research by academics such as Götz Aly has emphasized the role of the extensive Nazi social welfare programs that focused on providing employment for German citizens and insuring a minimal living standard for German citizens. Heavily focused on was the idea of a national German community. To aid the fostering of a feeling of community, the German people's labour and entertainment experiences—from festivals, to vacation trips and traveling cinemas—were all made a part of the "Strength through Joy" (Kraft durch Freude, KdF) program. Also crucial to the building of loyalty and comradeship was the implementation of the National Labour Service and the Hitler Youth Organization, with compulsory membership. In addition to this, a number of architectural projects were undertaken. KdF created the KdF-wagen, later known as the Volkswagen (People's Car), which was designed to be an automobile that every German citizen would be able to afford. The KdF wagon also was created in the idea that it could be converted to a military vehicle for war.
"Sounds just like what you want DavidS."
rtr
By the way DavidS, It is your Kenyan that is expanding the wars we have today so I am assuming you are really like the rest of the socialists here and are closeted lover of the Republicans and Bush especially.
rtr
To DavidS, I sure had to laugh at that long post of yours.
The democrats are Fascists and if you think other wise you need to look up the similarities between what the democrats and Hitler did and you will find they are following in his foot steps with SOCIALISM.
As for the Patriot Act it is the Kenyan that is EXPANDING it today so blaming that on Bush is very stupid."The word stupid does pertain to that by the way".
Your socialist democrats are the ones that caused the crash do to Forcing the bank that they have now taken over to give out loans to people that they knew could not pay them back."Bill Clinton admitted to it on NATIONAL television and said he wish he would not have done it or allowed his democratically controlled congress to let it happen.
Bottom line is how does it feel to be a modern day fascist????
DavidS
Our little country editor overlooks the fact that the vast majority of Democrats are far more concerned about the possibility of a fascist or neo-Nazi regime rising in America than we are about the shibboleth of a turn towards communism. During the late and unlamented GWBush regime we watched with increasing horror as the federal government conducted widespread unjustified arrests of Muslims across America even herding utterly innocent American citizens into jails and prisons. Then we watched the same regime brazenly lie to us all about the "threat" from Iraq that proved to be non-existent, both in terms of weapons of mass destruction and alleged links between Iraq and Al Qaeda that were proven spurious. Next, our neo-totalitarian leaders began widespread warrantless spying on the private communications of millions of Americans and enshrined their policies in the infamous Patriot Act. As a final act, the Bushies nearly brought the American and global economies crashing down around our ears, a disaster that has been averted largely by the efforts of the Obama administration. Americans should beware of those who point to the threat of communism and who are apparently too young or too ignorant to remember the dreadful acts and injustices committed by the Republican-led House UnAmerican Activities Committee in the late 1940s and Republican Senator Joseph McCarthy in the early 1950s.
Pete
Rawhide...great post awhile back. This and other findings confirm your point... "When you look at the data," says Syracuse University professor Arthur Brooks, "it turns out the conservatives give about 30 percent more (to charity). And incidentally, conservative-headed families make slightly less money."
rtr
Question for you socialists:
What do you all think about that Iraq war now that the Kenyan has sent more troops over to expand that?
Also what do you think about the escalation of the war in Afghanistan that the Kenyan will be sending in more troops to defend right shortly?
The only reason I am asking is to see if I need to thank Bush on your behalf for anything else he started that the Kenyan is expanding on.
rtr
Thank you for your response Bighorn0216, I believe I will send a letter off to Bush today letting him know that he has the support of the socialists now do to the Patriot Act that he started and that the Kenyan has wrapped his arms around his policies and expanded them and made them all very happy.
Pete
Farcical watching Bronco's attempt at hermeneutics. 2 Peter 3:16 "He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction." But...reading is the first step, and I'll give kudos for that even if its done with cynical intentions.
Bighorn0216
rtr, you make unsubstantiated or exaggerated statements and then demand that others explain or defend them. That others don't take the bait doesn't mean that you've caught anything. I'm not even sure what your "question" was -- some connection between someone you call "the Kenyan" (again no substantiation) and the Patriot Act. I believe you should be asking Bush and Cheney about that. But in any event, if no one is answering your question, perhaps you should help out by answering it yourself. As for anyone "STEALING" from the "back bone" of the Internet: 1) yes, it's going to happen, because the Internet is frighteningly vulnerable to attack and abuse, and not just by the government and not just by our government; 2) network administrators have had access to email traffic since Day 1 of the operation--it's nothing new, it's just that we're incredibly naive about it; and 3) stealth isn't even necessary in most cases--the storehouse of self-revealed information that millions of citizens have provided about themselves on social networking sites has generated dossiers that would have led J. Edgar Hoover to make an after-hours visit to Victoria's Secret for some new negligee.
rtr
You still can't answer the question can you, Didn't think you could.
Woody
rtr I cannot help but wonder how a man who worked in an industry where syntax is everything, where information is never more than one bit from oblivion, can be so incapable of expressing himself in a properly formed English sentence.
Rob123
p.s. rtr....per my previous note..... I thought I had better ask, since I don't want to offend your delicate sensibilities.....do you want a big chunk of Chinese owned Tar Sands? Or should I get Canadian, American, French, Italian, or British? Canadians are way more cosmopolitan than us Yanks, and don't get hung up on little things, except of course 'hate speech'. Then their Human Rights Watch steps in Big Time......It's such an Un-American point of view? But refreshing as heck, except when someone takes it to far.....Everything has limits, I guess. Like our Supreme Court wrestling with "Free Speech and Dog Fight Videos".....and all the logical places lawyers can take the arguement in their scramble to pay their Student loans.
Rob123
Relax rtr...geez.....and I didn't say..... "you said I was to stupid to make work''.....You do a good job at making work; possibly something you should work on? Believe it or not, but this is an enjoyable past time, time out, type thing during my normal waking consciousness. When other things come up, I do other things......Like yesterday afternoon cleaning my whole office including drawers and file cabinets, since I couldn't find my darn passport. The office looks good, all shiny and stuff. And all the file cabinets are neat and organized ready for inspection.....and I did find my passport, finally. Off to Canada in a few hours.....You work on 'content', and don't feel anxious; and try to stay polite.....Unless your addicted to throwing and receiving insults? If your good, I'll bring you back a hunk of tar sands from Fort McMurry....you would propbably enjoy it up there....it's redkneck heaven.....Speaking of Rednecks and Heaven, if Rush limbaugh buys the St Louis Rams, I can only imagine what the new, improved Trash Talk will sound like on the field, as he will probably only hire BYU football players......"Your Mother talks to Salamanders!" "Yeah! If you could tackle, your mother wouldn't be on medicaid!"....Exciting times.
Bronco
No, rtr a.k.a. JrRush, I think it was the notion of you using your name and the word intelligent in the same sentence. That and your dad, Rush Sr. trying to buy the St. Louis Rams. I want my life back.
rtr
Hey did the cat get your tongues after you insulted me over and over again about the useless Avatars that you said I was to stupid to make work.
HUMM,,,,Looks like the dummies are you socialists that can't answer the question about your insults about Bush and the Patriot Act or is it that you accuse me of instilling you when in reality it is you insulting my intelligence and then you get caught with your pants down with NO intelligence at all..
rtr
To Rob, Just to clarify one thing the government does have control over when it comes to the internet is the legal IP addresses such as IPv4, IPv6 and the autonomous routing numbers for such things as "BGP" border gateway protocol for the use of logical world wide connectivity...."Not the physical connections, Fiber, Copper, Routers or Switches"
Hope this helps.
rtr
To Rob, What you fail to understand about the internet is that it is NOT owned or controled by the government and is "Controled, shared and protected by the Telco's",,"Better know as the "Back Bone" of the internet.
The only responsibility the Patriot Act has is to "STEAL information from the "Back Bone" network of the internet which does NOT protect any of our assets..".NOT YOURS OR MINE".
rtr
To Rob, For the government to secure our Sosial Insecurity Yes that is a good thing but that has NOTHING to do with the "Kenyans expansion of the Patriot Act".
As for my 401K and Pension the security of that is taken care of by "Capitalism" and has noting to do with the government other than their theift of my money in the name of taxes and the IRS spying on me and everyone else through the internet to make sure they get their cut of what every working person owns and even some of us retired ones..
I do agree with Pete when it comes to you all bashing Bush when it came to the Patriot Act and now that it is being expanded by the Kenyan and TOTALLY out of control you support it.....Why is that?
Personally I didn't support it when Bush did it either because only a fool would not be able to see that it was being used for government intrusion into our private lives and NOTHING else.
You ask, Do I think the Kenyan knows what he is doing, The answer is "H*LL NO" not at all.
Rob123
Bronco.....Art history with a moral flare used to make legitamate the current culture? Love those parables. There like timeless.......and can justify just about any position, when taken down and memorized without any experience. Compassion is certainly a HUGE step forward.
Rob123
rtr.....Thank you for a polite, civil, informative post. Refreshing....As for protecting the 'Electronic' nature of your 401K, retirement funds based on work history stored someplace, your health records, SS account, etc., do you think that maybe, just maybe, President Obama "gets it" better than President Bush ever did? I have a nephew working for BPA since this spring, with much experience and degrees in computer science and fairly high security clearance from his work with Harris (CIA Satelite folks) in Melbourne, Fl., and a few weeks ago I asked him how it was going; being "Secret" not much he can say but he raised his eyebrows and shook his head and made a "banned on this program" comment. It's a start. Not sure how many people like him the government needs, but he started at $115,000.00 a year, plus all the government benefits......It could affect your taxes? Is it worth it? I say Yes.
Bronco
Rob, besides the bible and popular opinion, there is no proof that Jesus even lived. Christianity is a religion made up by scraping together pieces from other religions during a time when religions were very competitive. Today's fundamentalists believe the details in the bible as real events but the esoteric devise meaning from the metaphorical. The virgin birth idea came from the Greeks, whose stories of their gods' affairs with virgin maidens, of virgin births, and of half-god and half-human offspring preceded Christianity by centuries. Metaphorically, the virgin birth theme represents a spiritual awakening, or 'spiritual ' birth. Only when a community rises above being concerned solely with food, s.e.x., and conquering threats can this spiritual birth take place--that only when people have the luxury to turn their focus to compassion can the gods be born. The significance of the virgin mother is that this awakening is based not on our s.e.x.-ual animal selves, but on our spiritual or compassionate selves. Joseph Campbell wrote: 'Heroes and demigods are motivated by compassion and not s.e.x.-uality or self-preservation. This is the sense of the second birth, when you begin to live out of the heart center.' The philosophy of the ancient holy books are sound; it's the misinterpretation that gets people killed.
Bronco
The censor has struck me down. Testing... virgin
rtr
Rob, The threat can be traced yes but it does not prevent it from happening in the first place.
An internet attack has to be dealt with at the business end "Firewalls" but they are only as good as the person that sets them up and / or the software to detect any given threat.
Note: You would not need virus updates if the viruses were detectable before the virus comes out..."Just a thought".
As for a full blown internet attack from another country you are correct that it is a real threat when it comes to shutting down the "BACK BONE" of the internet which like you pointed out can affect the electrical grid and, commerce as well..."to explain how all that ties together would take to long" "But again it can only be traced and not stopped since the viruses are always made ahead of the cure for them and they can only be stopped at the local end point with few exceptions".
Capitalism "Cisco, Juniper" and many other companies are the ones working with businesses to keep us safe from such attacks.
It strains my brain to think about all of it and I like my retirement much better with 401K, Pension and paid medical that I worked for…."If you get my drift".
Rob123
So with your complete knowledge of systems, explain to me how, during a political/cultural dispute between Russia and Estonia/Lithuania/etc., said Baltic States whole highly computerized system went blank for close to 72 hours last year? Of course, they bank with their telephones, and are at least 10 years ahead of us.....It was traced to many servers in Russia, but great deniability......How'd they (Russians? Leninists? old KGB cold war warriors?) do it, and how susceptible is our Electric Grid and Electronic Banking and Stock Exchange to such an attack? My understanding is "VERY", with a lot of work being done on it as we speak.
Bighorn0216
"Eve's dropping"?
rtr
To Rob, As for "content" as you put it I engineered those and incorperated them into various networks also..
They are called Content servers and Firewalls.
Private business does not need the help of the government to protect it from the internet.
The fact of the matter is that once you are outside a private network the only thing the government is doing is eve's dropping to curb freedom of speech and there is NOTHING they can do to protect a private business..."It is a lie and a scam" fabracated by the government to get approval for expanding the Patriot Act.
rtr
To sensible, Here is the solution, Ship all you socialists and communists that live here to China and repeal all your socialist laws that you have been able to get on the books today.
You are the problem and not the solution
sensible
rtr, pete, natres, et al................try this. it's free. "The Conservative Nanny State"
How the Wealthy Use the Government to Stay Rich and Get Richer [dean baker, economist]......available online for free! one review:
“Here is the brutal truth, exposed systematically, methodically, unsparingly. Forget the pork rinds and the hokey Texas twang: Conservative government is government by and for the upper class.”
-- Thomas Frank, author of What's the Matter with Kansas? How Conservatives Won the Heart of America
sensible
rtr: "I retired from being a data network engineer"..................that might explain your curious use (misuse) of the english language (it's not a "code").
sensible
Pete: i repeat..............(or in your case re-pete)....."all you can do is fear-monger? that's it? mccarthyism? how shallow. how ignorant. why not offer your solution? or is failed reaganism your answer?" .... why you radical right wingers have purged teddy roosevelt republicans and eisenhower republicans from your party belies common sense. you've even alienated ron paul republicans. why not just rename yourselves the "contrarian party" and give the true republicans their party back? and lastly, hang your acorn baggage somewhere else. to infer that "all democrats" supported acorn policies is like inferring "all republicans" supported timothy mcviegh. (go bomb the government!!!)
Rob123
Bronco....I appreciated your imput. In your studies of the Bible and all the various sects that existed at the time of the Historical Jesus, along with the Roman Occupation; do you think Jesus was an Essene who broke away and tried to institute a form of Democracy amongst this heavily regulated culture? And he would be taken back at todays interpretations of what it was that he was trying to get across? I do, but it's more of an opinion. In fact, in my opinion, the notion that he was God would have caused him to pause and reflect and in his own words say something like "well, yes. However, we all are".
Rob123
"I retired from being a data network engineer". Good for you, rtr. My brother in law is also an engineer; the night custodial engineer at a major university. He's done some work for me over the years, and is good at networking computers. Content, however, is not his concern. He just gets work orders, then after following instructions, he enables others to shoot data from point A to point B. A very necessary job in todays world. Sometimes he even operates the ditchwitch between buildings, which is way better than crawling through utility corridors. And don't worry your head about the Chinese. If the Han (ethnic group) Philosophy Majors want to call themselves Communists and run the country as a Team of 'Communist' Party Officials in control of the Bureaucracy, o'well. It's their culture? Since the collapse of Mao's Cultural Revolution, they seem to be doing ok in the Urban Factory category and infrastructure. A lot of IT jobs, as you probably know after installing their switches all over the places you worked. But it certainly isn't as unified as The People's Party would like one to believe. I'm sure Mussolini rolls over in his grave and smiles at how The Chinese 'Communist' Party understands his thinking. State controlled Corporations run by entrepreneurs with the freedom to buy and sell goods and make contracts and accumulate wealth on State Owned Land. Who would ever have thought? It's so different than our Two Party System? Of course, as people slowly rise from their everyday struggle to survive and enter that 2nd generation of middleclass and have both the time and education to ask questions like "Who are We?" and "What are my Roots?", things like Free Speech and Freedom of Religion and Internet Censors and Ethnic Cultural Studies Programs start to arise.....So anyway, just trying to share some information with you, rtr. Try to be polite. And heck, share some information back, besides adolescent name calling. It gets old.
Bronco
BAMG!
rtr
To Bronco, No wonder you can't make enough to support yourself selling novels or books..."Between you and Robbie you have made total fools of yourselves today".
Jesus was NOT a government and advocated people helping people which is NOT your communist twist to it.
You on the other hand being a communist believe and are trying to say the government and yourself are all on the same level as Jesus..."Like I stated before you are nothing short of Moronic and if you continue down this path anyone reading your posts will think you are nothing short of psychotic as well".
Bronco
Oh, this is going to be fun! Jesus advocated paying taxes willingly to the government (Matthew 22:21). He felt that the wealthy had an obligation to provide free food to the poor, even when the poor wanted to eat on a Sunday (Leviticus 23:22; Deuteronomy 23:24-25; Matthew 12:1-2 (the corn was free to pick, the sin was that they were working (picking the corn) on the Sabbath); Luke 18:22). Jesus wanted a system of free nationwide healthcare (goes without saying, a general theme of the Gospels).
He believed that religious freedom was more important than allowing the majority religion to persecute all other religions, meaning a support of the separation of Church and State (an extension of Matthew 22:21; also see most of John 4, specifically Jesus' tolerance and praising of the Samaritans). He thought that the death penalty needed to be abolished (one can only assume that one who knew from personal experience that innocents could be put to death by the death penalty would be opposed to the death penalty, also see all his verses saying "do not judge"). This one will blow you away: He felt that public prayer, including school prayer, shouldn't be allowed; while putting strong protections on private prayer (Matthew 6:5-6). Jesus also believed that women deserved to have all the same privileges as men, and should even take an active role in choosing "the better part." (Luke 10:38-42) He partied down! He threw the best parties with the best wine (John 2) and the most sinful participants (Matthew 9:10). He had a balanced approach to personal self-defense (you can own a weapon but only for show, not to actually hurt anyone) (Luke 22:36; but its just for show as Matthew 26:52 stipulates). I think the answer is pretty obvious which party he would belong to: mine, rtr, not yours. Now, he would probably recuse himself from actually voting, since he would have entered the U.S. without going through the proper immigration channels, and not being born in the U.S.A. he would also be ineligible to become President. One additional point: Jesus would be a member of the party with the lowest divorce rate (Mark 10:11) So, a communist? Partially. A Republican? Hardly. A democratic/socialist/liberal? Spot on. Unless you want to argue with the bible? Any takers?
rtr
Another words Bronco you are trying to say Jesus was a communist and you are putting yourself at his level..."Interesting for sure" Moronic at best however.
Bronco
Mine comes after considerable thought; but yours, rtr, shows little evidence of even a single one.
Bronco
Well, rtr, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. And I my interpretation.
rtr
To Bronco, What is it they say when it comes to what you posted.
Stupid is as stupid does I believe that fits your post.
Bronco
I get to cut and paste! "The term "Communism", when spelled with a capital letter C refers to any state or political party that declares allegiance to Marxism-Leninism or a derivative thereof and explicitly identifies itself as Communist, even if that party or state is committed to non-communist economic policies; as is the case with the modern Chinese Communist Party." And by definition, Jesus was a communist. He preached economic and political ideas and social movements related to the establishment of an egalitarian, classless and stateless society based on common ownership. Praise Comrade Jesus!
rtr
Frank, I have noticed that you have mentored young Robbie before.
I looks like it might not hurt if you gave him a little guidance in the near future.
rtr
Oh Rob, You just step right in it every time young man.
I retired from being a data network engineer "Way above your little head" but nice try.
As for your Avitar I am not impressed.
Now if it was installing video like Polycom, Tandberg or something attched to MCU's, gateways, routers or switches for multiple locations I might be impressed."Stuff you have no clue about"...You know what I mean.
I have to say Rob your posts are just not making any sense at all any more,
Rob123
So what is going on in China today is Communism, eh? Confucius say; "George Orwell was right about the Right! Read headlines, and think they know everything". Now why in the world would Obama need to protect our business and government computer networks. "Gee Wilikers, Barney, it's over my head. I can't even get that avatar thing to light up."
rtr
Pete, You got that right...."I am going to have to change my news sources if I plan to stay current I can see that now".
You brought up a very good point with the Patriot Act also which is not humorous at all and it is being expanded big time.
.
The Washington Post
"Obama Set to Create A Cybersecurity Czar With Broad Mandate"
President Obama is expected to announce late this week that he will create a "cyber czar," a senior White House official who will have broad authority to develop strategy to protect the nation's government-run and private computer networks, according to people who have been briefed on the plan.
More protection for the country, "MY A$$"
Rawhide
Communism isn’t likely to become a viable third party in America since we now have the socialist democrats. Under President Obama, America’s former liberal democratic party has very quickly become the socialist democratic party. So whether that’s good or bad, let’s at least call it what it really is, socialism. Today’s democrats are socialists. Just look at their role in nationalizing America’s banking, insurance and auto industries, not to mention their attempts now to nationalize the health care industry. I realize socialism isn’t quite the same as communism, just as capitalism isn’t quite the same as corporatism (or fascism). Just be sure to instruct your kid when he/she opens a lemonade stand that she has to share half her proceeds with the neighbor kid who has been making fun of her capitalist enterprise, because President Obama wants us all to be good socialists.
As for Michael Moore, he was recently asked by a reporter if he didn’t feel guilty about becoming wealthy making films which denigrated his country’s capitalist system and praised socialism. He laughed and replied “No. Isn’t that Ironic”. Moore laughed again when asked if he contributed anything to charity. Nancy Pelosi has a similar problem concerning her wealth, as does Russia’s Vladimir Putin, one of the wealthiest people in the world. It seems socialism is full of hypocrites.
Pete
rtr...well you know if it's not Huffington Post, Democratic Underground or MSNBC it's not news...that's why they'd "never heard" of ACORN until Jerry Brown announced an investigation. When you're behind Jerry on the bell curve you've got issues with your sources.
Pete
So it looks like "Corporatist" is the new booooooogey-man word from the left. This from the same folks who consider the government take-over of GM, AIG, Freddie, Fannie, etc...as "necessary" and want to hand the government still more control of the economy with healthcare. But then it all depends on who is in charge, right? Isn't that why we haven't heard a peep from the libs on here about Obama's extension of the Patriot Act?
rtr
Pete you have to realize that these clowns only respond to what " is founded mainly on ideology" "facts confuse them especially when you pointed out it was a democratic right wing conspiracy".
To Woody, That would be wrong also, I am Born and raised Montana and "I have never lived in Nevada on any of my travels and no wish to live there either" but thanks for thinking about me.
If you notice Rob likes to point out my Thesauruses is all Montana'n and doesn't quite fit his style of writting....smile
Pete
NY Times Headline Oct 1, 2009 "China Celebrates 60 Years of Communist Rule" You better fire off a letter to those Orwellian dupes at the Times Rob...and while you're at it let the dissidents sitting in prison know too...I'm sure it will make them feel better to know they are not imprisoned by a "pure" strain of communism.
Pete
Bronco...I gave you some facts about ACORN and the vast right-wing conspiracy and all you did was turn blue in the face. :-)
Woody
I was referring to your ancestral home.
rtr
That would be wrong Woody, I am a free enterprize kind of guy myself...."It's called having a wife".
rtr
The Communist Party of China (CPC) was founded on July 1, 1921 in Shanghai, China. After 28 years of struggle, the CPC finally won victory of "new-democratic revolution" and founded the People's Republic of China in 1949. The CPC is the ruling party of mainland China (P.R. China).
The Communist Party of China is founded mainly on ideology and politics.
=====================
Sounds just like your ideas to me "Rob, Bronco and sensible".
Woody
Of course brothels are legal in Nevada. That is where rtr calls home.
rtr
Wow Rob, I didn't realize you and your little friends here were powerful enough to change anything "I sure understand what Bronco was saying about the SKY is falling now" But it doesn't seem to be the conservatives that the sky is falling around after reading your post.
Bronco
Keep babbling, rtr. Don't let them pesky facts get in your way. By the way, I like your avatar; a mere shadow of a man. The perfect choice. Now run along, the adults want to talk. Don't you have a widow to insult or a comic book to study?
rtr
Pete said " I thought brothels were legal in Nevada?"
You are correct Pete that corperate brothels are alowed but private enterprize is not.....LOL
Rob123
rtr....China is NOT a Communist Country, unless you are an Orwellian dupe and attach new meaning to old words. And a bunch of us have been trying to point out the Corporate takeover of American Capitalism.....Merger Mania up till 2008, when the financing showed itself to be phony as heck and the printing press at the Fed started running overtime to hide the pyramid scheme. I don't know of a single Communist writing on this blog.....but a lot of concerned individuals trying to correct a very flawed system despite your "just say no....love the status quo" broken record. Of course there is money to be made in the Stock Market right now. It's jumping around like a JackRabbit on Meth, trying to see the future and totally confused while the Bills pile up on long term debt and the only Savior is the Consumer and he/she is scared and not buying. We are in deep do-do, and will continue in the 10% unemployed officially (22% if you think it out) for a long time, unless the Corporatists and the fast money boys & girls start thinking of something besides their take on the next quarters bottom line and to heck with everyone else.
rtr
To Bronco, So that would be in comparison to your highly intelligent and intellectual posts with highly valuable information that none of us could or should live with out before going out into the great big world today….”I thought so”.
rtr
Wow, I didn't mean to ruffle your feathers Rob.
I read your first post about the fast money boys and girls which I guess I would be one of the fast money boys as you call it.
Let me explain, I never invest in anything from China since they fabricate their balance sheets."If you hadn't noticed it IS a communist country".
I am looking forward to a double head as you call it since I made good money in the last three months when it went up and short selling works on the way down.
The best posts are those of “sensible” however that blame capitalism for the collapse in the last year and blames Bush "Evidently the Bush family is really old since there was a crash in the 1930’s, 1950’s, 1970;s, 1980’s".
Personally I will take capitalism any day over your wealth redistribution and destruction of the American dream.
Bronco
The game's the same. Name calling, blaming without the facts, no solutions offered, fear mongering; nothing new from Pete, rtr, naturalresources et al. They interpret any oppositional discourse as a validation of their narrow opinions. "The sky is falling! The sky is falling!" And I agree; but it is THEIR sky that is falling. Maybe they should have built a better one. Now JrRush has a new word; instead of left-leaning loons, we now hear left-leaning communists. Way to follow, invertebrate. Baaah. Baah.
Pete
Did you see the latest in the right wing conspiracy? CA Attorney General Jerry Brown is opening an investigation into ACORN. Whoa!! So is Nevada? At the request of their Democrat Attorney General and Democrat Secretary of State? I thought brothels were legal in Nevada?
Rob123
Pete:."....after firing off an opus elucidating your leftist sympathies...." When the Center looks Leftist, you might want to buy more than bananas; potasium certainly helps, but so does a complete Swedish Massage. Stretch it out, or all the wrong things become rigid. And your 3 lettered friend.....buy him a Thesauruses. If nothing else, he could sit on it and dangle his feet over the edge.
Pete
I wonder if the Michael Moore fans scalp his tickets? Thankfully there's probably not enough demand...but the thought tickles me.
Pete
Frank...I guess you got the answer to your question about all Democrats. :-)
rtr
I have to say frank I don't believe this was one of your best columns but I sure do get a kick out of how it brought out the left leaning communists to post in this comment section.
Pete
Rob...I'm always amazed at how quickly you disappear into a cloud of conflicted independence after firing off an opus elucidating your leftist sympathies. Maybe Bronco is right, you really are Zoro of the left....one moment the dashing champion of liberal causes and the next a mild mannered fuel merchant plying his trade among the unsuspecting masses. I have to admit its a pretty good cover...but then again the left has never let a little irony get in the way of their agenda. Anywhooo, I'll let you get back to your navel gazing...I need to hit the produce aisle at IGA...for some reason I'm craving banana's.
katorce14
As to the central question Frank. Do i believe we have the best system i the world?
Lets see
Corporations - not the people - run the government.
Every 12 minutes someone dies from something we could fix.
I could go on.
I love the country, I do see room for improvement, unlike you I believe that we make that Improvement by giving the power to the people driving the Fords not those driving the Ferraris. Communism as originally devised strives toward an Egalitarian society. Excuse me if I don't fall at the feet of those who fight Egalitarianism tooth and nail.
sensible
editor: "I am hoping all Democrats share my view that our American system is the best in the world."...............not if "your" idea of capitalism is uncontrolled mega-mergers that gut all of teddy roosevelt's ( REPUBLICAN) anti-trust policies that stood for 80 years (until reagan took office). this is not capitalism!! many independents and democrats want to return to the teddy roosevelt (REPUBLICAN) anti-trust way. we want competition, but you and your radical right minions always "fear-monger" away legitimate concerns as"communist" or "socialist". we want competition!! got that, frank. now lay off the incessant "communism", socialism" scare tactics and fear-mongering, and either defend the status quo (reaganism) or offer a solution without fear-mongering. it's (INCESSANT FEAR-MONGERING) really old. as is the constant characterization of anti-FOX rhetoric as "socialist". we're so much more capitalistic than you and your corporatist following.............so much more capitalistic.
sensible
Pete: i honestly don't think you could recognize a true capitalist, having promoted corporatist radical right policies. and please, look up the definition of capitalism, and try to define it WITHOUT the word "competition". radical right mega-merger corporatism has ruled under reagan and the bush's (and, unfortunately but to a lesser degree, clinton). it has favored "too big to fail" institutions in most industries and is responsible for the current economic meltdown and unemployment (both tanked under bush, not obama). now, us true capitalists, who favor RULES so the competition is FAIR, simply want to end the corporatist ways................and all you can do is fear-monger? that's it? mccarthyism? how shallow. how ignorant. why not offer your solution? or is failed reaganism your answer?
katorce14
I am a capitalist, but I do not think that what we have now is not for the most part capitalism, rather corporatism. When corporations run government as they do now that is facism We do not admire the small business owner, or shop at the neighborhood grocery store instead we favor the box store. According to the editor that is simply becasue the box strore CEO can drive a Ferrari? The opposite is true That owner can drive a Ferrari because you shop there. Get real and get educated, its easy to poke fun at Michael Moore , after all he's a big guy, but to completly discount what he says is just being ignorant. He started the national discussion on health care.
A quick fact the average CEO gets paid 364 times what the average worker makes. I do not know why this little country editor continues to defend that, perhaps it is the filter of having to please his CEO?
Woody
Pete Your statement "Nat smelled" is our first step toward agreement.
Rob123
Why Pete, your just so Fox(y) this morning......" Anything for the cause.".....You obviously know that better than I. I still have debates over simple things, like "means justifies the ends?" or "ends justifies the means?" or the true nature of empathy or the exciting missing link discovered in the Rift Valley which pushes us back another million years and also removes us even further from the aggressive Chimp and more into the social big brained Ape......Sadly, the recessive gene thing keeps coming up amongst some of the participants of this exercise......Know Thy Self?
Pete
Woody...maybe...just maybe....Nat smelled a disingenuous question? No? :-)
Pete
Rob...don't confuse me with the Berlin quoting Hans12...in fact he seems to have you down "wortlich".
Pete
Frank...CNN, MSNBC, et al...their audience is down to Rob, Bronco, Sensible, etc...and so they've got to throw these folks the Red meat they so love to devour lest they disappear completely. You can't really blame them for marketing to their core constituency. Why do you think the left is so keen on funding NPR, National Endowment of the Arts and other propaganda wings of the Dem/Gov cooperative? And don't forget their nuclear option...the Fairness Doctrine...if it gets too bad they'll try to push that button, even if the collatoral damage is a few of their comrades in arms. Anything for the cause.
Woody
Nat, I hesitate to even respond to your lunacy. How in the world do you go from " I am curious, Frank. What slant do you believe your newspaper and column have?" to "Would you be happy if everyone just threw in the towel and became subservient to another culture?" I asked a simple question to try and gain some insight into what Frank believes his position is. I know enough about communism and America to know it could NEVER work here. Too many of us are way to lazy and the rest are too dam greedy. Besides, capitalism has allowed me the opportunity to live a good life. I am also blessed with enough intelligence to know that EVERY system needs to be constantly reexamined and fine tuned or it will run amok. Look around, the evidence that I am right is quite clear.
Rob123
"On tonight's consent agenda the council will be asked to accept two grants:"
"-- Kalispell Police Department won a $750,000 grant for developing a firearms training facility to serve Northwest Montana's local, state and federal law enforcement agencies, and to work with the public on firearms safety courses." NaturalResources.....In the name of ideological consistancy and your belief that the government spends money like a drunken sailor, will you be protesting this outlay of funds? And being a "Grant", does it matter who "granted" the money? And will the "Grant" cover the everyday cost of utilities and upkeep, for the next 50 years? Is this "Grant" one of those 'Earmarks' that Republicans cry about but then used during the Bush era, and continue using, with so much zeal that even the big government Democrats were impressed with their Fiscally Conservative buddies insight on how to get reelected? "Yes it's really expensive, but we don't want our Police Officers out in the weather catching a case of sniffles!"
Bighorn0216
1) Yusuf Islam . . . I don't know--doesn't really sound Buddhist, know what I mean? 2) Escaping reality is probably the last thing Buddhism could be said to be about. 3) He got rid of "everything he owned" because the idolatry of stuff is offensive, according to the Koran. 4) For heaven's sake, what in the world do the f/k/a Cat Stevens' religious beliefs have to do with whether capitalism is king? 5) Gandhi said (paraphrase, and perhaps apocryphal), "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians." Many might also say, "I like your capitalism. I do not like your capitalists." In any system of government, the ones who abuse it for personal gain are outside that government, but give it its bad name. There's an enemy in the mountains of Afghanistan, but another one in the corporate boardrooms and insurance casinos stateside. Shall we engage in war against one, and pretend the other doesn't exist, because it's "just not on" to go after the "negatives" in your own society (government)? 6) The enemy, and the way to peace, is within each of us. But miles are added to the path when we lose a groundedness and resort to spleen-venting hyperbole. That's two steps back. 7) Mentioning Gandhi reminds me of another. Asked what he thought of Western civilization, he said that he thought it would be a good idea.
naturalresources
Woody, no matter how you slant things, communism is not the American way. Why on earth do you people side with radical elements that strive to demean our society and try to force us into a lifestyle that is less than we deserve as humans that are, and have been, exrtemely productive in the past 200 ,or so, years? Would you be happy if everyone just threw in the towel and became subserviant to another culture? I just don't get the hatred directed toward capitalism. Every society has its negatives, but why do you liberals attack your own ladder that brought you to success.? Reminds me of Cat Stevens when he sold everything he owned and joined the Buddhist world. Maybe you should try to contact him and find out what it takes to escape reality.
Woody
I am curious, Frank. What slant do you believe your newspaper and column have?
Rob123
"they used him as their poster boy".....I didn't experience the CNN story like that, which also included Libertarian Bob Barr in it, Frank. And the http://www.cpusa.org link has many articles and such by Nagin and others; Unionism and job security and pension guarantees and Health Benefits despite a crumbling Steel industry......The whole disconnect between the Worth of Labor and the Reinvestment of Excess Labor/Capital, and the desire to lift everyone up to the same pay as the CEO in some grand Union Push and POOF, now it's all off shore and people are fighting for the pieces. It's a very lame arguement, but quite seductive to an unemployed blue collar guy enthralled with high rhetoric and not able or willing to see it for what it is. The only way the USSR lasted as long as it did was by the confiscation of wealth (excess Capital) from it's Warsaw Pact Partners and finally Gorbachev had the decency to let it collapse. CNN IS Liberal, when compared to FOX. Is this the arguement?
Editor
Hi Rob: CNN did not focus on Nagin as a viable third party candidate; they used him as their poster boy for a story on how a third party is now viable in the US. There is a big difference. If you want to see the text of the story for yourself, it is posted prominently through a link on the Communist Party USA website.... http://www.cpusa.org/ Check it out and tell me where am wrong.
SorrySOB
http://www.thenewstribune.com/opinion/columnists/story/904090.html
Rob123
Bronco...." And who in the heck is Hans12?".....I'm curious too......Maybe Pete's Alter-Ego? Plato had Socrates, so I guess it's an old, valid tradition. Will have to wait for a few more posts, I guess. Hopefully not a disciple, as they mess up the messege with alarming regularity, then I have to do the whole condescending thing.....(-:
Bronco
MontanaJim, I think the Sunday paper would double if Frank ever wrote about Fox News' fervor in how they slant the news. This column would swell with so much drivel from the right you'd need a bucket and mop to keep up. As far as the American system being the best in the world, that's a matter of opinion, much of which is formed by the knowledge or the lack of knowledge of other systems. It's like religion; you're either born into it or indoctrinated at a young age or when you have lowered yourself to pathetic desperation. But when you study a bunch of religions (political systems) you come to realize there is no 'best,' just better. We could certainly improve upon a two-party system. Most folks out there are not represented by either. Just like most church-goers have doubts about whether the Word really speaks for them. Like those folks who voted to leave the Big Church so they wouldn't have to deal with so called sinners. And who in the heck is Hans12? Rob, you have a disciple now?
Rob123
"Do you agree with me or not?" Hi Frank: Turning Nagin into a combination of Great White Whale and a Canary in the Coal Mine is......stuff that literature is made of. I watched the short little blurb on CNN concerning Nagin, and the possibility that he is a viable 3rd party candidate, with the talking heads at CNN all rolling their eyes while mentioning the 1st Amendment. CNN covered the story, at least. They didn't get into 'why' this person won the primary, nor did they mention much about his take on the transition of Capitalism into Corporatism, which seems to be Nagin's chief complaint, besides being way to the Left of Michael Moore, who also has a problem with Corporatism way more than Capitalism per se (One could say Moore is a Benevalent Capitalist looking after his downtrodden neighbors with 'green' handouts and projects, most approved by his Accountant). I look out at the forests and see the results of the frenzied Corporate 'Cut and Run' policies of the 80's and 90's, a reluctant participant; with the resulting backlash of EIS's up the Yin/Yang to even thin the obvious, and I shudder while my whole business model changed and now Latte's are as much of a profit center as Hydraulic Fluids, and I wonder when common sense will prevail again. I had all my trucks in the great Darby parade (and all the other one's), and it's gone. If Pure, Theoretical Communism was even possible, ya, I'd vote it in. But one might as well vote in the 2nd coming of Christ first. Both are Pie in the Sky and delusional. So, do I agree with you?
MontanaJim72
Frank...you're questioning CNN's ability to tell a news story without slanting it. Shouldn't you also be questioning FOX news ability to report a news story without slanting it to the right? Or is it only a problem when the news slants to the left?
Editor
Hi Rob: I am actually using Nagin to question CNN's ability to tell a news story without slanting it... I also used Nagin's quote as a way to get to Michael Moore's new movie... After tha, I said I hope Democrats don't share Nagin's and Moore's disdain for capitalism. Do you agree with me or not? That's the question I raised. I am hoping all Democrats share my view that our American system is the best in the world.
naturalresources
Great job Frank. Exposing commies is a nasty job, but someone has to do it. Should be a fun week ahead; watching libs scurry from the anthill and try to protect the very politicians that would restrict their every move and dictate their lives .... or lack thereof....to eternity. Maybe we could send a reporter to North Korea and ask what it's like living under the rule of Kim Jong?
Hans12
‘Ho Ho Ho Chi Minh... communism still can win’ .....from Vietnam Veterans against The War......."Hey Hey LBJ, How many Kids did you Kill Today".....Do you really miss the 70's, Frank?
Rob123
"..... Rick Nagin is indeed a serious candidate for the Cleveland City Council." From this one person in one city you question the whole Democratic Party? Your Literature background is showing, Frank. A great way to write a novel, that 'one central idea' thingy; but to transfer that to a Political Editorial concerning the status of everyone 'not Republican', well, your rabble rousing. In a novel, you could spend some time and explore the notion "would Marx or Engels have seen Stalin as a Communist? Or a Georgian Thug in love with Tyranny and the Power of the State?". And in a novel, this far left Rick Nagin, living in the midst of the Rust Belt of American Factories, amongst the hardest hit of American Union Workers, AND actually winning enough votes to make it through the primary, should cause you to ask 'why'? What is the Sociology of this local event? It would or could fill a novel. Would Rick Nagin supporters want to nationalize all the Condos in Bigfork with boat slips and make them accessible only to the higher ranks of the Communist Party? You know, emulate Stalin's version of 'Communism'? Or do Nagin's supporters want the Brown Fields in Clevland cleaned & transformed into next generation clean factories for the 25%+ unemployed and under-employed in America? That would be a worthy novel. This piece is rabble rousing for the Pensioners who are already nervous that the Stock Market might be headed into the dreaded correction of a double dip recession, as the economy shedded another 255,000 jobs last week. Beter than the 750,000 jobs lost in Janurary, but not good. And it ain't the Communists doing it to us, unless you think China is a Communist State instead of an Emerging Market that is sexy to Wall Streeters and the Fast Money boys and girls.