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Investigators descend on doctor

‘They have access to everything,’ Kalispell doc says

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Posted: Sunday, November 8, 2009 2:00 am

Dr. Annie Bukacek of Hosanna Health Care in Kalispell was surprised when a 30- to 40-foot-long command-post vehicle pulled up unannounced last week, along with a posse of state and federal health-care fraud investigators.

That marked the latest in a string of inquiries that started last April. Apparently someone alleged abuse of patients or fraud with regard to Medicaid billing involving Bukacek's medical practice. Questions about praying with patients also have been raised.

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          Welcome to the discussion.

          146 comments:

          • Rob123 posted at 2:32 am on Fri, Nov 20, 2009.

            Rob123 Posts: 6600

            rtr.....Why, in 1997, did the U.S. Gov't come out with the Age of 40 for yearly tests of ALL woman, while the rest of the industrialized world had already figured out 50 was fine unless one had a family history or environmental/job workplace exposures? Do you think Politics played a part in this Medical decision? Do you think a Stain on a Blue Dress made some politicians nervous and in the great tradition of American Politics, they over compensated and tried to buy some votes for the 98 Election? Do you think the current arguement is still Politics? I mean, you have Conservatives argueing to Waste Money by having everyone over 40 getting mamograms, because it's a convenient Political Arguement that fits into the R vs L winner take all election process. Remember, we're going broke, and have been for 2 decades.

             
          • rtr posted at 4:18 pm on Thu, Nov 19, 2009.

            rtr Posts: 3086

            JMO, You left out why the government is giving out new recommendations.
            The government knows there will be rationing of health care if Obama gets the Death Care package passed so they have to shorten the lines of people waiting for his Death Care by extending the length of time between check up times.

             
          • JMO posted at 6:33 pm on Tue, Nov 17, 2009.

            JMO Posts: 133

            Not on subject but since DIL did not put online the new recommendations for mammograms - I'll mention it here. Front page "switch in screening advice". Obituaries - Ms Howell, age 44, died after battle with breast cancer.

             
          • Sue009 posted at 12:40 pm on Tue, Nov 17, 2009.

            Sue009 Posts: 1

            I worked in an Medical Office with Dr. Buckacek, And her work ethics are impecable.
            She is a good Christian, And I don't belive she is capable of frauding insurance companys or anyone else. Send the federal investigators to the banks that can't account for the billions of dollars of stimulis money to bale them out. Dr. Bukacek I a former co worker belive in you.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 3:17 am on Mon, Nov 16, 2009.

            Rob123 Posts: 6600

            Corazon: That sure beats having someone from the 'Oral Roberts School of Divinity and Accounting-On Line' doing the audit!

             
          • Corazon posted at 4:26 pm on Sun, Nov 15, 2009.

            Corazon Posts: 1

            Has anyone looked into the fact that federal investigator Ms. Jessica Fehr's parents run a medical billing firm in Billings. From their website: "Affordable Solutions to Fit Your Practice. . . .At Med-Write, we pride ourselves in being the most efficient, professional, results-driven medical billing firm in the Rocky Mountains."
            http://www.med-write.net/

             
          • peg gray posted at 10:38 pm on Sat, Nov 14, 2009.

            peg gray Posts: 311

            I just felt compelled to watch the Youtube video::: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZum_o-GAEI

            ha ha ha It was made by a group called, "Center for Freedom & Prosperity"

            This is one of their goals:

            Tax Havens: Myth vs. Fact

            In recent years, so-called tax havens have been attacked by opponents of free trade and free markets. International bureaucrats and left-wing politicians accuse tax havens of everything from facilitating tax evasion and money laundering to precipitating financial instability. Such attacks are inaccurate and obscure the fact that tax havens promote economic growth, sound fiscal policy, and individual liberty. Below are common myths about tax havens and corresponding facts that advocates of economic freedom should have at their disposal:

            I think a BUNCH of countries just called Switzerland out on being " a Tax haven" and the world won.

            So this group wants it to be OK, to hide your money in another country...NOT pay taxes on it and get richer.....who'd a thunk!

             
          • rtr posted at 7:33 pm on Sat, Nov 14, 2009.

            rtr Posts: 3086

            Don't Copy Europe's Mistakes: Less Government Is the Right Way to Fix Healthcare.
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZum_o-GAEI

            This is a must watch video if you are going to try and push or sell the garbage that socialized health care is better.
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZum_o-GAEI

             
          • benznd posted at 3:55 pm on Sat, Nov 14, 2009.

            benznd Posts: 326

            WASHINGTON – The government paid more than $47 billion in questionable Medicare claims including medical treatment showing little relation to a patient's condition, wasting taxpayer dollars at a rate nearly three times the previous year.

            Excerpts of a new federal report, obtained by The Associated Press, show a dramatic increase in improper payments in the $440 billion Medicare program that has been cited by government auditors as a high risk for fraud and waste for 20 years.

            It's not clear whether Medicare fraud is actually worsening. Much of the increase in the last year is attributed to a change in the Health and Human Services Department's methodology that imposes stricter documentation requirements and includes more improper payments — part of a data-collection effort being ordered government-wide by President Barack Obama next week to promote "honest budgeting" and accurate statistics.

            Still, the fiscal 2009 financial report — covering the first few months of the Obama administration — highlights the challenges ahead for a government that is seeking in part to pay for its proposed health care overhaul by cracking down on Medicare fraud. While noting that several new anti-fraud efforts were beginning, the government report makes clear that "aggressive actions" to date aimed at reducing improper payments had yielded little improvement.

            In recent years, the suspect claims have included Medicare prescriptions from doctors who were dead, and requests for payment for medical supplies such as blood glucose strips for sexual impotence and diabetic shoes for leg amputees. Patients, many of them new citizens who barely speak English, are sometimes recruited by brokers who go door-to-door offering hundreds of dollars for use of their Medicare numbers.

            Obama is expected to announce new initiatives next week to help crack down on Medicare fraud, including a government-wide Web site aimed at providing a fuller account of health care spending and improper payments made by various agencies. The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services also will launch a Web interactive next month that will allow users to track Medicare payment information by categories such as state, diagnosis and hospital.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 2:15 pm on Sat, Nov 14, 2009.

            Rob123 Posts: 6600

            hamilton beach...I thought quotation marks were enough....ya know, those little " " thingys. Good that you pointed it out, though. Shows your paying attention, kind of sort of. Wish more people were paying attention......

             
          • hamilton beach posted at 11:28 am on Sat, Nov 14, 2009.

            hamilton beach Posts: 2

            Rob123,
            Not only is your last post irrelevant to this topic, but it is as well plagiarized, as it is something Matt Taibbi authored, and I see no credit given. What is the point of posting the thoughts of someone else, and off topic as well?

             
          • Rob123 posted at 10:22 am on Sat, Nov 14, 2009.

            Rob123 Posts: 6600

            ""It's kind of amazing that with all the uproar over the Galleon business, nobody is making much hay over the recent revelations about the AIG bailouts, which make former Goldman chief and former New York Fed chairman Stephen Friedman look every bit as guilty of insider machinations as Raj Rajaratnam of the Galleon fund.

            "In the middle of the mortgage bubble, Goldman Sachs found a patsy-buffoon named Joe Cassano at a little corner of AIG called AIG Financial Products, or AIGFP. Cassano was recklessly writing hundreds of billions of dollars worth of credit default swaps [derivatives] for banks like Goldman and Deutsche, essentially insuring certain investments for these banks, including extremely risky mortgage-backed deals.

            "Goldman took out billions of these CDS positions with Cassano, who had written upwards of $440 billion of these CDS without having even a fraction of the money he would have needed to cover that bet in the event of a disaster of the type that actually ended up taking place, specifically a downgrade of AIG's credit rating that forced Cassano to pony up wads of cash to cover those positions. The important thing to remember about all of this is that just because Goldman was buying 'insurance' from Cassano, that doesn't mean they were being responsible.

            "On the contrary: Goldman was creating well over ten billion dollars worth of exposure to a guy that they must have known was an absolute idiot. Now, in a world where actual capitalism existed, Goldman should then have been highly invested in making sure that AIG did not go under. A dead and bankrupt AIG should not have been good news to a company like Goldman Sachs, which had billions of dollars riding on AIG's financial health.

            "But if anything Goldman behaved throughout the runup to AIG's collapse like it couldn't care less if the company died [Because they knew it would be bailed out]. In fact Goldman accelerated AIG's demise by making margin calls against AIG, for both the CDS deals and for deals it had done with Win Neuger, who was running AIG's securities lending business. What really sank AIG was the fact that the downgrade of its credit rating permitted companies like Goldman to demand large sums of money from AIG in the form of these margin calls, and AIG could not get its hands on enough cash to meet its demands, resulting in the death spiral situation we all witnessed last September. Of all the firms making such demands against AIG, Goldman was the most aggressive and my sources who were involved in the AIG bailout bunker scene of a year ago almost to a man report that Goldman and its chief Lloyd Blankfein took an extremely hard line with AIG [because they knew that by forcing it on the ropes, they could gain control through their links to the Fed].

            "Goldman, it turned out, had an ace in the hole. It seems that when the state stepped in and decided to bail AIG out, its former director, Stephen Friedman, was among those making the decision that AIG's counterparties should be paid 100 cents on the dollar for its CDS debts... Goldman ended up getting almost $14 billion from AIG after the bailout. And Friedman, we later found out, bought 50,000 shares of Goldman stock after this deal was struck. He resigned in May from the Fed, a few days after the Wall Street Journal broke the story about Friedman's stock purchases [Martha Stewart went to jail for much, much less]."

             
          • benznd posted at 9:54 am on Sat, Nov 14, 2009.

            benznd Posts: 326

            hamilton beach, the good doc is not in the position to tell us or anyone else what type of vehicle is/was needed by the investigators. Any comments related to the waste of money is irrelevant and meant to redirect the readers, many who are fanatics as well. So, let us stick to the topic of the appearance of impropriety. That is why they are here. So, let's just wait and see what comes of the investigation.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 1:20 am on Sat, Nov 14, 2009.

            Rob123 Posts: 6600

            " I certainly hope the investigation is not related to her personal political stance." I certainly agree with that!

             
          • hamilton beach posted at 11:43 pm on Fri, Nov 13, 2009.

            hamilton beach Posts: 2

            There is a lot of blather and unrelated squabbling here. I would only like to state that I worked with Dr Bukacek several years ago when she was in my local, and I have much respect for her. She cared about her patients, and gave them good medical care as well. As she stated for the article, the investigators may be well intentioned, but this is obviously overkill. A mobile command vehicle purchased with homeland security dollars used to investigate a small practice in rural Montana, yet no answer to what the allegations are? If this were to happen to many of the rest of us, we would not be so philosophical in our assessment of our governments good intentions. Look at your latest tax assessment to see if you think even our smaller state government is on track. I believe Dr. Bukachek is trying to give good care, as she did when she was here working in my community. If she writes letters to the editor, it is commendable to take a stand. I certainly hope the investigation is not related to her personal political stance.

             
          • Pete posted at 6:32 pm on Fri, Nov 13, 2009.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Rob...."You two sure are big on stereotypes."....Hard to miss such big a pinata. Loved the ads also...Lol....all two of them...weird stuff. I guess thats why they have a "donate to" tab? Same issue as Air America...just can't seem to get a handle on capitalism. At least you've succeeded in expunging any notion of your "independence" and have firmly ensconced yourself on the leftist fringe so there won't be any need for your ongoing charade...that had to be tiring. :-) Oh well, I actually prefer you as a proud leftist vs a sycophantic "independent".

            A little quote for you in honor of Bronco....

            “The greatest way to live with honor in this world is to be what we pretend to be.”
            Socrates quotes

             
          • rtr posted at 6:31 pm on Fri, Nov 13, 2009.

            rtr Posts: 3086

            Come on now Bob I'm loosing you here, We have what the military should not be doing and what they should have done in the first place.

            What else can we fix?

             
          • rtr posted at 5:41 pm on Fri, Nov 13, 2009.

            rtr Posts: 3086

            Rob
            rtr.....Bringing our troops home would be the first step.
            ========================
            Ok, second step would be after they get home drop enough Hydrogen bombs on Iraq, Iran and Afganistan to trun it into Lake America.

            Cheers

             
          • Rob123 posted at 5:21 pm on Fri, Nov 13, 2009.

            Rob123 Posts: 6600

            rtr.....Bringing our troops home would be the first step.

             
          • rtr posted at 4:33 pm on Fri, Nov 13, 2009.

            rtr Posts: 3086

            Rob
            You two sure are big on stereotypes. LOL.....I should buy a rocking chair and join ya, just to get the lingo down.
            ================
            What lingo? What do you mean stereotypes, You still don't know what my politics are "Remember I get most of my information from your Democratic Underground and Huffington News".

            I'm not much into rocking chairs, Just never liked them much, I am more into the recliner, head back relaxed with a cold beer watching the deer and turkeys out my window. "Some times a little CNN news, It's always best to keep your friends close and enemies closer you know" or if I want real honest and unbiased news I turn on that dreaded "FOX news" since "I just love the balloon boy reruns".

            I sure hope that wasn't an insult you were throwing my way, I was just getting ready to start the BBQ and pull out a fresh ice cold barrel of beer and invite you over thinking maybe we could have a few bruskies and fix the ailments of the world.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 3:34 pm on Fri, Nov 13, 2009.

            Rob123 Posts: 6600

            You two sure are big on stereotypes. LOL.....I should buy a rocking chair and join ya, just to get the lingo down.

             
          • rtr posted at 2:52 pm on Fri, Nov 13, 2009.

            rtr Posts: 3086

            Pete
            Rob...Holy Cr*p....I went to the "TruthDig" sight...Lol...The only think I can say is "you are what you eat".
            ===================
            You noticed that too...laughing, If the only thing you read was "TruthDig" I can see why you might think China is not a communist country...

             
          • Pete posted at 2:25 pm on Fri, Nov 13, 2009.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Rob...Holy Cr*p....I went to the "TruthDig" sight...Lol...The only think I can say is "you are what you eat".

             
          • rtr posted at 2:12 pm on Fri, Nov 13, 2009.

            rtr Posts: 3086

            Rob
            Would that be Politics?
            =============
            You have a point there I will give you that but like all liberal propaganda it does not go into the theift of the elderlies Medicare that they paid into all their lives to acomplish a low quaility health care for everyone that has NOT paid a dime into it and as far as defence spending goes in my opinion it is fine to protest the war "Its your right to do that" but to NOT support the troops with what ever you can in order to keep them out of harms way is just plain and simple "Un-American".

            It was an article of liberal propaganda only, If you have noticed I try not to get information from Fox news because you feel the same way about it.
            Even your Democratic Underground and Huffington News supports my views so I don't have to look very far for equal oppertunity information.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 1:07 pm on Fri, Nov 13, 2009.

            Rob123 Posts: 6600

            "The article had nothing to do with politics".....ReallY? Then u said " It was liberal propaganda...." Would that be politics? Or would "$650 Billion for Defense Budget Plus Money for Iraq and Afghanistan added in off budget (for next year) VS. $1 Trillion for Health Care Proposal (spread over 10 years). .....A busy person might read over that and think Health Care Reform Proposal is more that Defense? Would that be Politics?

             
          • rtr posted at 12:11 pm on Fri, Nov 13, 2009.

            rtr Posts: 3086

            Rob
            So, our Politics differ, huh? Dang, usually after civility comes the realization that not everyone is out to get you. I'll be patient.
            ==========================
            The article had nothing to do with politics, It was liberal propaganda that contradiced it self all the way through the entire article.
            No body is out to get anyone any more, "Civility is here", Lets just hope is stays that way.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 11:58 am on Fri, Nov 13, 2009.

            Rob123 Posts: 6600

            So, our Politics differ, huh? Dang, usually after civility comes the realization that not everyone is out to get you. I'll be patient.

             
          • rtr posted at 11:43 am on Fri, Nov 13, 2009.

            rtr Posts: 3086

            Rob, Speaking of hypocrites that article of yours contradics itself all the way through it..

            Let see here it says the government will save money on health care, At who's expense "The eldery that have paid into Medicare that's who"

            To much defence spending, HUMM What would you like are army to do, Throw spit wads at the enemy?

            The list was endless.

            You better get some sourses that are not from the front page of "Sheep News".

             
          • Rob123 posted at 10:59 am on Fri, Nov 13, 2009.

            Rob123 Posts: 6600

            http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20091112_where_are_the_real_deficit_hawks/

            Try this on for size......

             
          • Pete posted at 10:54 am on Fri, Nov 13, 2009.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            rtr....Rob watches CNN so he's still not clear on exactly who ACORN is....but he's all over the "Balloon Boy" case. ;-)

             
          • rtr posted at 10:53 am on Fri, Nov 13, 2009.

            rtr Posts: 3086

            Pete
            Indeed, laugh till you cry....these are your "good neighbors".
            =============
            I think the saying goes, he who laughs first will be laughed at last.

            I hear they are going after tanker drivers next since they drive on Federally funded roads.

             
          • Pete posted at 10:05 am on Fri, Nov 13, 2009.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Rob...in the very least the Republican Party better be doing some serious self-scrutiny.

            rtr...so true...."waste, fraud, and abuse..." What a joke. This administration can't produce or deliver a flu vaccine to meet its own projections but they can send a boat load of investigators to Kalispell, MT to investigate the hometown doc....Doesn't it seem the scale of response is a little out of wack? I would also like to know how many other investigations the State and Federal agencies involved in the Bukacek case are involved in....in Montana...and does Bukacek get the opportunity to face her accusers and take some of their financial hide if she is found to have done nothing wrong?

            "When contacted in Billings, Fehr would not comment. She said the policy of her office is "to neither confirm nor deny the existence of any investigations."
            The policy is designed to protect the reputations of physicians if allegations prove to be unfounded. Attempts to contact investigators were unsuccessful."

            Then maybe they shouldn't send a giant command vehicle and a swarm of agents. What a bunch of disingenuous baloney...and again the only ones cheering this on are the "good neighbors" snickering in their sleaves as an ideological foe "gets hers" from the great champion of fraud and waste...the US Government. The very same "good neighbors" that were so quick to pass off ACORN's transgressions as trifling lapses in judgement unworthy of scrutiny.

            Indeed, laugh till you cry....these are your "good neighbors".

             
          • rtr posted at 10:04 am on Fri, Nov 13, 2009.

            rtr Posts: 3086

            I understand what you are saying Rob, It is a one sided political thing.
            That why ACORN is still in business and Obama has refused to take away campaign money from them even though they are openly corrupt. "I get it now"

             
          • Rob123 posted at 9:44 am on Fri, Nov 13, 2009.

            Rob123 Posts: 6600

            Well rtr, as you know, if you buy the vehicle with non-sequential and old $20.00 bills, there's a good chance of an audit coming your way. Lets say, ah, 50-50 chance. Still a lot of 'look the other way' Republicans drawing fat gov't wages, praying to gGod they can pass their CPA Boards on the NEXT try and get a real job.

             
          • rtr posted at 9:12 am on Fri, Nov 13, 2009.

            rtr Posts: 3086

            Rob
            Someone who does business with the government can expect to be audited.
            ==========================
            Does this mean if I buy a car from governments motors "GM" I can expect to be audited.

             
          • rtr posted at 9:09 am on Fri, Nov 13, 2009.

            rtr Posts: 3086

            Rob
            Pres Obama promised to go after fraud and waste.....
            ======================
            Rob you almost made me laugh till I cried with this one, Are you saying that President Obama is going to have "himself" arrested and thrown in Jail for life like Madoff since he is the biggest criminal in the government fraud and waste department.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 3:45 am on Fri, Nov 13, 2009.

            Rob123 Posts: 6600

            "GOP chairman ends abortion insurance for employees " So, since 1991, RNC Staff Members have had their insurance, paid for by loyal Republicans supporters, covering abortions on demand. Of course, audits are only done by 'Leftists' 'Socialists' and other low life bums in the world of Pete and rtr and some other bloggers here. Maybe some self scrutiny is in order, eh?

             
          • Rob123 posted at 3:14 am on Fri, Nov 13, 2009.

            Rob123 Posts: 6600

            rtr....per your comment concerning "butts in the air"....If your going to run into a new comment section, tripping with your knack for Freudian slips, at least have the courtesy to read the whole thread line before splashing everyone with your esoteric brand of conservatism. It's unsightly.
            And Pete ......Someone who does business with the government can expect to be audited. Even your god fearing favorite defense contractors operating on a cost Plus contract sometimes get caught slipping in a home swimming pool or college education for their kids, under 'expense'.....get a grip....Pres Obama promised to go after fraud and waste.....such exercises sometimes turn up nothing and the accountants leave; in my own business experience, with a "thank you" and a hand shake, although the experience did feel like an autopsy without the benefit of death. It goes with the territory.

             
          • benznd posted at 10:41 pm on Thu, Nov 12, 2009.

            benznd Posts: 326

            Oh little Peteeee and big ole gruff rtr. "Get back, get back, get back to where you both belong! You see, people who throw rocks should not live in glass houses. Love ya bros..............

             
          • rtr posted at 7:41 pm on Thu, Nov 12, 2009.

            rtr Posts: 3086

            A deeply religious person as reflected by the name of her clinic, Bukacek said she obtains patients' permission before praying and respects their wishes if they decline. She estimates that a typical prayer consumes maybe 30 seconds during a visit.
            =========================
            Gee, Don't you know if it is a Christain prayer it is wrong in Obama's eyes and needs to be snuffed out.
            They should have been on a carpet with their b*tts in the air praying from the Karan.

             
          • Pete posted at 6:58 pm on Thu, Nov 12, 2009.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Rob...Conspiracy? No...just big government doing what it does while "good neighbors" like you cheer them on and ask for more.

             
          • benznd posted at 4:26 pm on Thu, Nov 12, 2009.

            benznd Posts: 326

            And stunned, never tell someone you are going to pray for them unless THEY ask for your assistance along that line. I have nothing but respect for others as long as they keep their personal beliefs to themselves. Tell me that you are accepting of all. That gGod created all. That regardless of their race, color, and beliefs, you are accepting and willing to assimilate them and their beliefs into your life. Not your churches. You see, many of us practice kindness and respect for others, regardless of race, color, or creed. We do not take people's rights away because they somehow do not fit into our perceptions of what they should all think. So, I agree with RR in that you are no doubt a person I would like to know. Just do not tell me or others you will pray for them. It is rude and implies YOUR direct connection to the aAlmighty. I have MY connections in my life. OK. I leave you with these words of wisdom. "I am not in this world to live up to your expectations, and you are not in this world to live up to mine. You are you and I am I, and if by chance we find each other, it is beautiful." Fritz Perls.

             
          • benznd posted at 4:09 pm on Thu, Nov 12, 2009.

            benznd Posts: 326

            Good point miffed. This started out as a discussion about this doc and Medicaid reimbursements. There was nothing stated in the article, that I am aware of, related to persecution of the good doc by the bad government.

            And Pedro, the Boy Scouts will surely sell enough popcorn, regardless of my take on that youth organization. I am sure the parents are proud. It is not the kids who practice exclusion. The kids should be taught to accept ALL their peers and welcome them to the world class knot tying society. Now that is in humor Petester, as I know first hand they sell Christmas trees and learn how to build fires. Camaraderie, as long as you are a WASP.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 4:06 pm on Thu, Nov 12, 2009.

            Rob123 Posts: 6600

            Pete: Nice, easy conspiracy, again, eh? Boo!

             
          • stunned posted at 2:39 pm on Thu, Nov 12, 2009.

            stunned Posts: 181

            Pete. Absolutely. Well said.

             
          • miffed posted at 2:24 pm on Thu, Nov 12, 2009.

            miffed Posts: 4

            What are you talking about? Certainly not this article. Get back to the point. This doctor's past and present employees were interviewed by the FBI, the Dept. of Labor and the State Auditor's office. That does not happen because she is chump change or because of any conspiracy theory. Get real! She has been anti-abortion for years. There is no conspiracy - just a big investigation.

             
          • Pete posted at 1:22 pm on Thu, Nov 12, 2009.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Stunned...you have witnessed the disparaging nature of the compassionate left and their theory of tolerance. You must remember their faith (and faith it is) is quite opportunist in its application of principle. That is...they know what is best for you and by hook or by crook they are going to make sure you get it. The means are secondary, justifiable and completely subject to the desired ends.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 11:52 am on Thu, Nov 12, 2009.

            Rob123 Posts: 6600

            montnatom....Thoughtful, thank you. However, 'bible.......written by what is generally accepted......" Whoa! What about all the Gospels before the Council of Nicene? At least 20 or so, including Thomas and Judas (a real eye opener). And what about the Nostics, finally crushed by the aristotelian Christian Church in the name of their all loving gGod? As you know, it goes on and on, and smacks of Politics without Science masquerading as Religion. Faith ain't Reasonable. But it doesn't mean there isn't something More, it just means Religion ain't it. p.s. Last time I had an audit by the IRS, I wish I had a bunch of folks deflecting the conversation! (-:

             
          • montnatom posted at 11:31 am on Thu, Nov 12, 2009.

            montnatom Posts: 3

            Rob - that comment was for rebel's benefit, I have done sufficient research to be convinced in my belief that there is a 100% probability of a creator and that the scientific evidence of my evolving from an ape (or any other random act of evolving to human form today) is totally flawed and not only unlikely but scientifically impossible. That's my conclusion and others are free to do their own research. There is another book on the market called "How good is good enough" by Andy Stanley that I would recommend. Check it out. I know that I and no one else is "good enough" by anyone's elusive definition so don't need to bother with trying to define good. The uniqueness of christianity is that it is the only religion that is not dependent on being "good enough" (I'm not talking about "christians" or "christian religions" that wrongly impose human terms and conditions of "goodness" on the salvation offered through Jesus, but the message of Jesus himself). Read about it in the bible, which at the very least is the only available biography of the ministry of Jesus while on earth written by what is generally accepted as his contemporaries and eyewitnesses to his time here.

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 11:03 am on Thu, Nov 12, 2009.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1564

            montnatom, thanks for the generous offer but I am pretty sure I will be able to procure those books mentioned earlier. The really good thing about not believing in god is that there is no fear of burning in h*ll for eternity (seems like a very harsh punishment for just using your brain). My moral and ethical character is based on principal not fear. I've known too many individuals who after discovering "there is no god watching me" lose their fear and moral compass and since they have not developed morals based on the right reason, they just go wild, thinking there will not be repercussions for their actions. Religion makes the world a dangerous place ("Allah Akbar") if you get my drift.

             
          • Pete posted at 10:56 am on Thu, Nov 12, 2009.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Rebel...not complicated...just pointing out the irony of your Gestapo quip when talking to Benznd....who compared the Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts to the Hitler youth. Rob may be able to direct you to the definition of irony in humor...he had to look it up the other day.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 10:47 am on Thu, Nov 12, 2009.

            Rob123 Posts: 6600

            montnatom: " The other thing is that here's a thought, am I taking a bigger chance with eternity by believing there is a creator or by believing I'm an ape ancestor?" Ah, always good to see Pascal's Wager thrown into the mix......Ya might want to re-read it a little, then maybe jump ahead a century or two and fit in some Gentics and Hubble Space Telescope and heck, why not a touch of evolutionary biology after refreshing yourself with evolutionary psychology. But feel free to keep that 0.00006%+/- , that there is a big old antropormorphic gGod sitting up that waiting for us to come home, if we are good .....Now your going to have to define good.....geez, might as well read some Plato too. It seems the act of defining "good" is the start of Politics. Oh No! I'm sure Pete will clarify everything in a few minutes.

             
          • stunned posted at 10:42 am on Thu, Nov 12, 2009.

            stunned Posts: 181

            Pete, thank you for the reminder. My husband would agree with you 100%. My comments were more for rebel rouser. Sometimes I think he's seeking and then I get slammed with rude comments. It's like debating with water, they metamorph into whatever suits them for the moment. Even though you have confused the lefties with the quote from scripture, it has not alluded me. By the way, thank you for your posts. I appreciate them.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 10:23 am on Thu, Nov 12, 2009.

            Rob123 Posts: 6600

            Rebel Rouser: I think Pete is trying to say that God is Dead......He just condescends a lot, which garbles the message. Hang in there, I'm rooten for ya!

             
          • montnatom posted at 10:18 am on Thu, Nov 12, 2009.

            montnatom Posts: 3

            RR, thats up to you but the offer remains open, believe we could do that without you posting anything here and I am not into cross burning. Couple more things to say tho - It appears to me that it takes more blind faith to believe I came from an ape instead of a Creator...I am a geologist and scientific thinker and the evidence to me is overwhelmingly creator instead of ape. Blind faith? Nope! Drug addict/paranoid/homophobic idiot? Don't think so. The other thing is that here's a thought, am I taking a bigger chance with eternity by believing there is a creator or by believing I'm an ape ancestor? Answer is obvious and the downside for some is that you will never be able to say "told you so" if there isn't anything more than this. So, historically billions have followed Jesus "over the cliff" and that makes them wrong and a couple of you guys here right? Bottom line is, either you believe that Jesus was who he said was (He claimed to be God/Savior, etc) or He was a crazy idiot. Your choice just like its my choice. Good luck!

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 10:03 am on Thu, Nov 12, 2009.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1564

            Again Petee boy, what are you trying to say?

             
          • Pete posted at 9:37 am on Thu, Nov 12, 2009.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Rebel....did I say anything about your right to post? Quit jumping at shadows.

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 9:25 am on Thu, Nov 12, 2009.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1564

            The foundation of morality is to ... give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibilities of knowledge. T.H. Huxley. Pete, besides not being able to recognize tongue in cheek humor, what are you trying to say? You don't think we have the right to post our opinions? The world should only listen to what you have to say? Folks before you listen to Pete you should go back in time and realize what happened to him as a young child, then you will have enough pity to tolerate his strange world view (and his rudeness).

             
          • Pete posted at 8:50 am on Thu, Nov 12, 2009.

            Pete Posts: 3152

            Folks....Putting this little exchange between Rebel and Benznd in context.

            "benznd says, "No one is "out there" looking to get into your personal lives".

            Then Rebel says..."Does that mean there isn't really a GestapObaman waiting to capture me and take me away to the Kamp?"

            Funny you should say that Rebel, because according to Benznd it may be the Boy Scouts or the Girl Scouts who come for you. This is the very same Benznd character who compared these organizations to the Hitler Youth last week. So now who is delusional?

            Folks, please do a little research on past posts of these characters before engaging and you'll quickly find enough trash to sink a NYC garbage barge. Consider who you're talking to before "casting pearls before swine".

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 7:53 am on Thu, Nov 12, 2009.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1564

            montnatom, "I would be more than happy to send you copies of the books mentioned earlier. Send me an email to tlipps@bresnan." Thanks for the offer, but I would be afraid to give out my personal information because the next thing I know someone would be burning crosses on my front lawn. Stunned, maam, I wasn't trying to be disrespectful but I thought if I quoted you, you would see how ridiculous what you said was. I don't want you to pray for me, no maam, not at all! sooner or later if we keep up this debate, you will love me so much that you will want to kill me, like a good christian (Catholic/Protestant) should. I am sure you were brainwashed as a child and if you hadn't been indoctrinated you would not believe the things the church pushed into your mind, but alas, you shall never escape the damage they did to you, and are destined to carry those lies to your death. Sad, very sad indeed. Other than your psychotic delusions you sound like a nice person.

             
          • benznd posted at 11:28 pm on Wed, Nov 11, 2009.

            benznd Posts: 326

            Stunned. Did you not read your message to that I quoted. Sheeish? What world do you live in. You can tell David: "What kind of hope are you giving your children? Look kid, you evolved from an ape and there is no God. Therefore, act like an animal because there are NO consequences for your actions. Again, if you don't want to believe there is a God, fine. Just don't tell me you are open-minded and would be open to reading something other than the Bible that proves that there is a spiritual existence. You are not open to anything except making rude comments and mocking people. Again, your dark side coming out." You do not think that is irrational and judgmental and exclusionary. You jump to conclusions that David is an irresponsible Dad? Look at what you wrote. You and others who think like you are divisive and should live in your own gated community. You already live in your own mental gated community, you may as well make it physical as well.

            I have not been hurt by anyone. I am just fed up with all the crapola that has divided this country. I served 8 long years in the military, Air Force and Navy, during a long ago war. I saw the results of religion, whether it be Buddhist or Christian. Pray before going into the field in hopes of killing gooks. They did the same thing. Pray before leaving their homes in hopes of killing us.

            Now, after years of working with the poor and disadvantaged, I am faced with an increasing cry of "foul" form the right wingers, teabaggers, Obama haters, racists, you name it. And they all sound like you. Warped and willing to take away others rights. No marriage for same sex couples? No right to choose as a family whether to bring a child into this world? Take your kids to a private Christian school so as preserve their religious training? I could go on. However, you will probably not understand. Just practice your faith. Leave your faith out of issues such as the good doc. This is a medical/monetary issue and not a socialist conspiracy.

             
          • montnatom posted at 8:11 pm on Wed, Nov 11, 2009.

            montnatom Posts: 3

            RR - I would be more than happy to send you copies of the books mentioned earlier. Send me an email to tlipps@bresnan.net if you would like them. I apologize if we christians come across in the wrong manner at times, just proves that while we are christians, we are humans and not God. I'd also be happy to set down over a cup of coffee and hear what you believe and why, you sound like you have pretty strong convictions and most people don't. I'm not out to convert anyone but I do believe in sharing what I believe and the basis of those beliefs. I also believe in the power of prayer but God doesn't always answer in the manner that we want him to or in the time that we want them answered, anyone who claims otherwise is foolish. I am glad that we in America can believe what we want but wish we could be more respectful in our disagreements.

             
          • stunned posted at 6:02 pm on Wed, Nov 11, 2009.

            stunned Posts: 181

            benznd: If you don't care if I'm a Christian, what exactly is "my kind" that you've had to "deal" with? What's not "easy" about dealing with "my kind"? I didn't realize it was YOUR society. When people start talking about NOT having people in their society because we don't agree, that's a little scary to me. Again, you're talking about experiences that you have had that I have no knowledge of. "I have turned the other cheek too many times"? You've obviously been hurt by someone very deeply. I need a little clarity because I can't follow what you're saying. Can you be more specific about why you don't want me in YOUR society? I've offended you so deeply that I should be killed or banished from America? Do you realize that that does not sound like a comment from a mentally stable individual?

             
          • benznd posted at 5:34 pm on Wed, Nov 11, 2009.

            benznd Posts: 326

            Stunned. Pardon me. Dude or Dudette, thanks for the moment of humor. You do not know what I was talking about? "What kind of hope are you giving your children? Look kid, you evolved from an ape and there is no God. Therefore, act like an animal because there are NO consequences for your actions. Again, if you don't want to believe there is a God, fine. Just don't tell me you are open-minded and would be open to reading something other than the Bible that proves that there is a spiritual existence. You are not open to anything except making rude comments and mocking people. Again, your dark side coming out."

            Stunned, that was the point of my post. Sorry I missed the mark. I do not care if you are a gGod fearing Christian, it means ABSOLUTELY nothing to me. I do not want your kind in my society, but reality says, you are here to stay. I have dealt with "you" for most of 65 years. It has never been easy. I have turned the other cheek way too many times. I have done onto others blah blah until the cows come home. Ignorance with blind faith are lethal.

             
          • DavidS posted at 4:32 pm on Wed, Nov 11, 2009.

            DavidS Posts: 420

            It's always amusing to see how much difficulty some folks have in coping with the realization that their ancestors used to live in trees. These are the type of folks who pull their kids out of public schools where evolution is taught so their little ears won't be singed by hearing such heresy. Instead, they gather together in cults called creationism where they can huddle away in relative safety from the awful gusts of scientific knowledge that rain down upon us more frequently each day. One begins to wonder if these folks themselves came down from the trees quite recently, or perhaps they feel the need to scramble back up there to be closer to their creator and Bishop Usher. The creator may be up there somewhere, but Bishop Usher has been buried in the ground for several hundred years now.

             
          • DavidS posted at 4:32 pm on Wed, Nov 11, 2009.

            DavidS Posts: 420

            It's always amusing to see how much difficulty some folks have in coping with the realization that their ancestors used to live in trees. These are the type of folks who pull their kids out of public schools where evolution is taught so their little ears won't be singed by hearing such heresy. Instead, they gather together in cults called creationism where they can huddle away in relative safety from the awful gusts of scientific knowledge that rain down upon us more frequently each day. One begins to wonder if these folks themselves came down from the trees quite recently, or perhaps they feel the need to scramble back up there to be closer to their creator and Bishop Usher. The creator may be up there somewhere, but Bishop Usher has been buried in the ground for several hundred years now.

             
          • stunned posted at 3:22 pm on Wed, Nov 11, 2009.

            stunned Posts: 181

            Benznd: First, I'm not a dude. I guess I would be considered a dudette and two, I have no idea what your talking about. How exactly am I supposed to grow up? Not really clear on what you're saying. Could you clarify without using insulting statements?

             
          • benznd posted at 2:28 pm on Wed, Nov 11, 2009.

            benznd Posts: 326

            Stunned, we ARE stunned. I like your reasoning skills. Kids!! Now listen up. Ya arrived here at this here time cuz of some ape. Ya all got my permissen to act like it 2. Get a grip dude. You need to grow up. Stunned indeed!

             
          • stunned posted at 1:58 pm on Wed, Nov 11, 2009.

            stunned Posts: 181

            Rebel Rouser: Did you have to right that so Benznd could pat you on the back? I thought we were having a reasonable discussion. What kind of hope are you giving your children? "Look kid, you evolved from an ape and there is no God. Therefore, act like an animal because there are NO consequences for your actions. Again, if you don't want to believe there is a God, fine. Just don't tell me you are open-minded and would be open to reading something other than the Bible that proves that there is a spiritual existence. You are not open to anything except making rude comments and mocking people. Again, your dark side coming out. I thought we were making progress.

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 11:50 am on Wed, Nov 11, 2009.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1564

            Stunned said: "God knows and sees EVERYTHING from the beginning of time to eternity." Ha, ha, ha, yeah right!!

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 11:48 am on Wed, Nov 11, 2009.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1564

            President Obama said he was going to "crack down" on fraud and waste in this country. If Dr Bukachek is committing fraud, she will get whatever the law says. Anyone (christian or not) who cheats as a matter of standard business practices should be called to task. McGinnis said "She would be small potatoes....." This type of moral/ethical corruption has to be stopped and the powers that be must start the process somewhere, it's all of those small potatoes that add up to billions of dollars of fraud and waste.

             
          • McGinnis posted at 11:16 am on Wed, Nov 11, 2009.

            McGinnis Posts: 2

            The following story shows the bias investigation by the MT. Mobile Command,the F.B.I. and others. I personally know Dr. Bukachek. She is prolife, voices her concern about the Health Care Bills in congress and she is a faithful believing Christian, who will pray for a patient if the patient wants prayer. I believe these allegations and investigation is but another bias shakedown against a Christian doctor who voices her dissent against the Liberal Left policies. She would be small potatoes, if ever convicted, in the reported current annual $60 Billion Health Care fraud. This is another example of inefficiency and waste by our governments.
            Ms Evans, you said that TAX dollars can't be used by religious sects for use to advance their agenda. Do you know how much the Indian Reservations get and waste in the name of their sacred lands? Millions & Millions.

             
          • benznd posted at 9:57 am on Wed, Nov 11, 2009.

            benznd Posts: 326

            Hang in their Rebel Rouser because "they" are out to get you. "You got a friend" here that also says blind faith is nothing more than blind faith. Need to think "is that all there is" is evil thinking? Destiny or divine intervention is real. Yet, it is only available to those who worship? Really now! Worship? An interesting term if ever there was. Blind faith. Destiny. Worship. Pineapples, that is the only word that popped up on my spell check when I tried to spell pin-e-culls, reaching towards the sky supposedly sending collective congregational energy and prayer to gGod. Prayer that sometimes calls for death to whomever appears to be the enemy at the time.

            So, now this stuff flows over into the realm of family practice. Blind faith supports a Jewish(?) MD in the Valley because she engages in prayer and the government is the enemy at this time. Blind faith is good; our good doc practices blind faith; therefore our good doc is good. Is that the doctrine of an educated society. That is the doctrine of doom. That is rigid blind faith. A democracy absolutely requires an educated electorate to survive. That is the lesson of history folks. No one denies your right to your fanaticism. My choice of words. No one denies your right, no one.

            So what is the issue? Do NOT tread on me with stuff of mysticism and money and power. These posts threaten the unity of a supposedly united states. Either believe in my form of paranoia, or you are not entitled to membership. Enough said. Blast away or ignore, your choice of course. Just needed to add my 2 cents.

             
          • riverstone posted at 8:28 am on Wed, Nov 11, 2009.

            riverstone Posts: 45

            Who cares if this doctor likes to pray in her office instead of her closet! I like it when people are free enough to be themselves. If I don't like people to pray with me, I don't need to see her. And Uncle Sam doesn't like people to pray unless they are praying for our Big Brother. And remember that our Big Brother will help us all prey upon the innocent. He will send our children to die in foreign lands and pretend that he really cares about their health. We are just numbers who need to prey upon each other according to the golden rules of the powers that be in our holy D.C.

             
          • DavidS posted at 9:15 pm on Tue, Nov 10, 2009.

            DavidS Posts: 420

            It will be interesting to see what folks have to say about Annie Bukachek when the results of the medicare/medicaid fraud investigation are revealed. The federal and state authorities don't launch a high visibility fraud investigation like this unless they believe they have serious grounds. It will be particularly interesting to see what Annie's patients who are defending her so vociferously here have to say. Stay tuned. It's not over.

             
          • stunned posted at 9:10 pm on Tue, Nov 10, 2009.

            stunned Posts: 181

            Rebel Rouser: God knows and sees EVERYTHING from the beginning of time to eternity. NOTHING gets past him. Do you really think that Theodor Frank's actions went unnoticed? Absolutely NOT! Revenge is mine sayeth The Lord. If you are right, Theodor Frank will go unpunished, if I am right he will not. Man chose to sin in the garden and therefore brought evil into this world, not God. God made us his ultimate creation with a free will. We chose to be like God and have knowledge of good and evil. Our mistake not His. If you stop to think what he did for us when He sent His son to be crucified and mocked, then passed through h*ll for OUR sin, it really can't be fully comprehended. I'm glad that I worship a just God. Sin is a state of separation from God. Without His Son making atonement for my sin, I would be in eternal separation from Him too. I do not want to live in the darkness. I have chosen to accept His free gift and follow Him. As far as the Clergy being involved in child molestation, that does not surprise me. Just because people claim to know God does not mean they have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Even the demons believe in God and shudder. If someone has truly had an encounter with Jesus Christ, their life will be changed. It says in the Bible that we will know if people are believers by their fruit. A bad tree can not bear good fruit. A good tree can not bear bad fruit. We are called to be discerning when it comes to these matters. I have begun praying for you. I am praying specifically that the Holy Spirit will reveal Himself to you.

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 7:25 pm on Tue, Nov 10, 2009.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1564

            inHisgrip said, "Also UFO's are real and will be revealed soon by our government " Ha, ha, I knew you were a lunatic. Claus said, "He has erected a multitude of New Offic...blah, blah blah", You sir, are a nut case, gee, why am I not surprised. Next up, Stunned, I am stunned that you would choose to use the rape of a 9 month old girl as a representation of good vs evil, of course it's evil (man!!) If that guy did that to one of my children I wouldn't wait for the prosecution, I would tear him apart piece by piece. People are not always good but there is NO DEVIL. There is usually a reason individuals go off the deep end, drugs, mental disorders, emotional breakdown, bad brain chemistry, too much pressure, etc., etc. Yes it is evil but it is not caused by any spiritual entity. Many children have been molested by ministers, preachers, clergymen, pastors, rabbis, padres, etc., oh yeah, I forgot it's a spiritual world. I am not bitter or miserable or anything like the portrayal you have tried to make of me, I am a very happy individual and I love the light (sun), but I am curious as to how so many seemingly intellectual people can be morbidly psychotic when it comes to religion. Yeah, I'm gonna get me 72 virgins, yeah baby!!! Ps, one of the things that convinced me that there is NO WAY any divine spiritual entity exists is because of a similar (little girl) molestation and murder that occurred in 1978 by a miserable excuse of a person named Theodor Frank. I decided that if there was a god and he could let this happen to an innocent 2 year old girl I would not accept this (gods) existence and or would not have ANYTHING to do with a creature that would allow it to happen. There is No WAY any sentient being would let this happen, period. I was young and have since realized that many people want to believe in god for one reason or the other, but it is still just a bunch of mind twisting Cr@pola. It takes the dark of night to see billions and billions of stars.

             
          • lousia posted at 6:27 pm on Tue, Nov 10, 2009.

            lousia Posts: 196

            I have ask this question many times with out a answer from a non believer. and after reading the many good comments and some in my opinion other wise not but thats ok; we are all entitled to our opinon so far anyway.
            My question why do people who do not beleive in God have to run him down most all the time. they write comments in different papers on computers etc and say terrible things. about him why?
            It seems to me if you hate someone why bring it up all the time. It must be bugging you someplace along the line. I have been a christian now for a number of years, I might not be happy all the time but theres joy and peace and to me that only comes from our Lord.
            And Annie would never pray with someone if they didn't want it. Shes to kind and humble lady.and to me was not a gossip or said bad things about other people.

             
          • Claus posted at 6:24 pm on Tue, Nov 10, 2009.

            Claus Posts: 399

            "He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our People, and eat out their substance."

            Grievance against King George, Declaration of Independence

             
          • stunned posted at 3:56 pm on Tue, Nov 10, 2009.

            stunned Posts: 181

            Rebel Rouser: You don't believe there is good and evil in this world? So the guy that raped the little 9 month old baby isn't evil? He's just misunderstood? There are some VERY sick things that happen in this world that can only be explained with EVIL DOES EXIST. You sound very bitter with a lot of self loathing. What happened to you to make you hate what is good? There are a lot of people reading this that will pray that the Holy Spirit will reveal himself to you. That's the only way you'll understand what Christ did for you. In the meantime you'll walk around with a veil over your eyes. If you don't believe in God, why is it so important to you for others to believe that as well? Just go about your life as benznd does thinking your more intelligent than everyone. Why make everyone as dark and sinister as you? Why can't we believe that we're forgiven and live lives that are full and complete? I can tell you why. Darkness absolutely hates the light. You say you're open minded but you're not really. When I read your posts it breaks my heart. You sound as dark as you feel. I don't know about anyone else but when you post, I feel a dark cloud enveloping you. That's a terrible way to live. Mother Theresa showed the love of Christ with the wonderful things that she did. She never took credit for them. According to you, she shouldn't have done those things. She was just a silly, ignorant, old woman. I'd rather live like her than live in your darkness. Whether you like it or not, I'm going to pray diligently for you. The Holy Spirit can do anything whether you believe in Him or not.

             
          • inHisgrip posted at 3:03 pm on Tue, Nov 10, 2009.

            inHisgrip Posts: 2

            Hey RR whether you like it or not we are in a spiritual world. God doesn't need you to believe in Him for Him to exist. I don't need to sell anything here. Apparently something is going on in your heart or you wouldn't be so angry and defensive. What are you afraid of? Is the way your living really working for you there? Are you sure? Good luck with it. My eyes were open a long long time ago. And by the way benz it's not just the
            depressed and vulnerable and people in major trauma who need God. They are just more open to it. Also UFO's are real and will be revealed soon by our government who has known about them for a long time. I'm sorry you're so sad RR and pray for joy and love come through the back door in your life in amazing and surprising ways. My comment before wasn't meant to scare anyone. He is a mighty God though. Vast enough to create the universe, intricate enough to form you and small enough to come down here and live among us to save us from ourselves so yeah...I wouldn't mess with Him too much. He's God. You're not. Sorry that offends you. Cross offends many.

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 11:44 am on Tue, Nov 10, 2009.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1564

            benznd says, "No one is "out there" looking to get into your personal lives". Does that mean there isn't really a GestapObaman waiting to capture me and take me away to the Kamp?

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 11:39 am on Tue, Nov 10, 2009.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1564

            It's okay to fart, just not in H3ll. Could cause a terrible explosion.

             
          • benznd posted at 11:25 am on Tue, Nov 10, 2009.

            benznd Posts: 326

            Wow, this post was blocked by the use of the word he*ll. I thought it was fart!

             
          • benznd posted at 11:24 am on Tue, Nov 10, 2009.

            benznd Posts: 326

            The good doc may really fit into someone's perspective of what medical care should encompass. I have no problem with it what-so-ever. When someone has Medicaid or Medicare, they and their doc agree to play by the rules. A records check would be triggered when payments for services fall outside the "norm" as established by the average charges for services nationwide. That and the normal best practices established by docs nationwide. That is all there is about it. No one is "out there" looking to get into your personal lives. If your tax returns are audited, it is because your return has the appearance of impropriety, just as the good docs billing does. Nothing more nothing less. And of course, the individuals who participate in this medical coverage agree to specified confidentiality, which includes the patient, care provider and other responsible individuals guarding OUR money.

            Research provides a profile of evangelicals or born again population. Now understand that this is not a figment of someone's imagine, it comes from interviews. I do not the % in my head, yet is statistically significant. Major trauma is the trigger. No one to turn to, extreme panic and/or depression, etc. Those individuals are easy prey. Easy prey are my words, as I do not wish to mix my own perceptions with the results of objective research then present them as fact. Hummmm, that reads like a hidden message. Don't mix personal opinion then present those opinions as fact. We all do it. However, we have a responsibility to all of our "family" to understand when we personally have crossed the line. It is not that we will not cross the line, we all will, just self-correct when necessary. That especially applies to raising your own children.
            CSN&Y
            You, who are on the road
            Must have a code
            That you can live by.
            And so, become yourself
            Because the past
            Is just a goodbye.

            Teach, your children well
            Their father's he*ll
            Did slowly go by
            And feed them on your dreams
            The one they pick's
            The one you'll know by.
            Don't you ever ask them why
            If they told you, you would die
            So just look at them and sigh
            And know they love you.

            I love the song, and it has so many memories for me, and a lesson to live by. I kind of deviated from what I was writing. Yet it all blends together as we are our brother's keepers, and must do onto others as you would have them do unto you. Stop, think, and do. Use that prefrontal lobe to evaluate incoming and determine whether it should trigger fight/fright/freeze. Or perhaps it is just info to be intelligently evaluated, nothing more nothing less. And PEACE be with you this fine day. (-: I bet that goes over like a lead fa*rt in a punch bowl.

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 11:12 am on Tue, Nov 10, 2009.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1564

            inHisgrip (sounds like a cult to me), I can produce very "real" photos of alien creatures from outer space too. Would you consider those creatures to exist if I did? Most of your words belie the typical scare tactic so commonly used by religious groups in the process of indoctrinating their flock. "going to get way more than they ever thought they wanted " whoa, I'm scared now!! You are delusional and psychotic and for some sick reason society doesn't call you guys to task and try to get you psychiatric help like they would if you walked around talking about green aliens. This is America and you have every right to believe what you want to, but come on, try to get REAL!!

             
          • inHisgrip posted at 9:54 am on Tue, Nov 10, 2009.

            inHisgrip Posts: 2

            I saw a photo the other day taken with a 21mm camera and it showed two big angels in it while someone was praying for someone else. The line between the spiritual and the finite is getting thinner. So people who want "proof" are going to get way more than they ever thought they wanted and then some! And they'll still argue about the reality of God. The glory of God is accelerating at a way faster pace than the evil going on in this world. Annie will be okay. Love to see photos of angels around her when she prays. And when the Spirit gets to you--you will fall to the ground in the power and all reason will go out the window. Just wait. Moses got to see the back of God and it was astounding. And this was just a glimpse. I pray with all my patients. Why not go to healer of all first?

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 9:05 am on Tue, Nov 10, 2009.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1564

            Well claus, I am here, I am real, and I want you to "put up or shut up". It should be very easy for you to provide some truth and proof. However, I don't have faith in your ability to back any of it up with tangible evidence.

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 9:02 am on Tue, Nov 10, 2009.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1564

            stunned, I will read A Case For Christ and A Case For Faith by Lee Strobel as soon as I can get a copy. I would also like to recommend a good read to you: History: Fiction or Science?" by Anatoly Fomenko. This book should help you understand how disorganized and manipulated the history of our world is, (including the bible) and how men in power throughout the ages have used deceptive time lines to influence and support their religious beliefs. What I am looking for is some hard evidence of spiritual existence, not so much a source to entice me into accepting what is not real. No one can provide this proof (to my satisfaction) and I am open minded about it. Most always (just) say " because it says so in the bible". I don't believe (there is a single word of truth) in that particular book. Here is a link: http://history.mithec.com/

             
          • notworried posted at 9:45 pm on Mon, Nov 9, 2009.

            notworried Posts: 3

            "She said her primary concern was for her patients. Bukacek said the investigators had access to patients' marital history, children's history, drug addictions, sexual orientations, religious preference, medications and illnesses."

            Don't let this scare tactic make you fear for the safety of your health information. The investigators don't care about any of this. Their job also involves protecting patient information and ensuring the safety and rights of patients are protected. All they are looking for is whether or not the patient chart notes match for services billed for. Any time a doctor continually bills for high level visits it will trigger an investigation into why every visit is always a level 4/5 visit. This is medical billing 101.

             
          • wingedpig posted at 5:34 pm on Mon, Nov 9, 2009.

            wingedpig Posts: 12

            I am a patient of Dr. Bukacek's. I go to her because she DOES offer to pray with me. How refreshing to find a doctor that is willing to talk to God, not play God. However what really frightens me is, the feds being exempt from HIPPA guidelines. Patient records are private unless concent is given. I do not recall giving the feds access to my medical records. If they are bored and need something to do, why not investigate the EBT (food stamp) program and try and fix that. Most of these card users eat better that I do. I cannot afford to buy steak and seafood, but I am paying for them to eat high on the hog! Wake up! There are many more important issuse out there than the small medical practice of Anne Bukacek.

             
          • stunned posted at 4:16 pm on Mon, Nov 9, 2009.

            stunned Posts: 181

            Rebel Rouser, try reading A Case For Christ and A Case For Faith by Lee Strobel. Mr. Strobel is a journalist who spent two years of his life studying this whole idea of Christ as the Messiah and the credibility of the Bible. He was a non believer such as yourself and came to a very strong conclusion at the end of his investigation. You said you wanted to read something other than the Bible. Put your money where your mouth is and give it a shot. They are quick reads and I think you might find them interesting. When you're done, tell me what you thought of them. Thanks

             
          • Claus posted at 2:51 pm on Mon, Nov 9, 2009.

            Claus Posts: 399

            Well, Rebel Rouser, I must admit that I often hear and see things that I wish weren't there. You for example...

             
          • Ms_Evans posted at 1:59 pm on Mon, Nov 9, 2009.

            Ms_Evans Posts: 50

            Again, I hold no judgment. I am stating what the law says. A physician who accepts medicaid payments for services rendered to those who have little or no funds to pay cannot hold any type of religious service (prayers included) in the same place or at the same time of medical service.

            Because Medicaid is federally funded, federally funded services must be provided separately in time and/or place from religious services because of legal and political principle derived from the First Amendment to the United States Constitution,

            It does not matter that she accepts lower fees through Medicaid nor does it matter if it is her own private business practice.

            This premise would give the government leverage in why they are holding this investigation. I am not saying this is emotionally right or wrong. I'm just stating a probably reason for it.

             
          • JOYCE D posted at 12:51 pm on Mon, Nov 9, 2009.

            JOYCE D Posts: 1

            Dr. Bukacek I stand with you. God have mercy on any doctor who does not know they are limited. Only the Great Physician, God, can heal. Doctors can only treat. Annie has such a wonderful balance. She does not just pray,( she spends a moment at the end of the apptointment and only with permission, every time) But her knowledge, wisdom, and intellect in her education and experience as a doctor are a great measure above the average. She never assumed because I accepted prayer one visit that is it acceptable the next. Even though I have made it very clear that is it always good with me to pray. She always ask each time. In all my years of searching for a physcian she has far exceeded anything I could have hoped for. I do know that the statement of this complicating the medicare and medicad patients is probably very true. It has been more than difficult to find a doctor who accepts these payment intities and still gives honest quality care. Dr. Bukacek I stand with you 100% and should there be any oversight on your billing practices that need to be fine tuned then grace to you through those processes. For I am confident that you would not willfully and knowingly defraud any one. You are one of the most genuine sincere caring people I know. My PRAYERS and encouragment to you throughout this season. Thank you for all you have done for me and my family. Joyce

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 12:51 pm on Mon, Nov 9, 2009.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1564

            Claus, So I can take it that you are one of the people who hear and see things that aren't really there? Do you talk in tongues? There are medical professionals (not Dr. Bukacek) who can help you with your psychosis and possible dementia. BTW, if you would like to substantiate any religious claims of spiritual existence with something other than "the bible tells me so" I will listen.

             
          • Claus posted at 12:46 pm on Mon, Nov 9, 2009.

            Claus Posts: 399

            I think benznd should be investigated for someting, Let's say income tax evasion.So I drop a line to my friend at the IRS and an audit is started. benznd believes it is a mistake, but after the forth audit he thinks he is being persecuted. Unfortunately there is no way to prove it and he is being forced out of business inch by painful inch. Some people would object because they believe the IRS has too much power, but they don't particularly like benznd, so they just tell him and his supporters to prove he is being persecuted.

            Of course he can't, so, "Oh well."

             
          • Claus posted at 12:28 pm on Mon, Nov 9, 2009.

            Claus Posts: 399

            I think I can answer Rebel Rouser. A typical G-d-faring Christian would be like a normal person, whereas a lunatic cult member would be someone like you.

             
          • benznd posted at 11:59 am on Mon, Nov 9, 2009.

            benznd Posts: 326

            The VAST majority of these comments reflect the ignorance of fact finding. First you establish or proclaim your hypothesis. "Dr. Bukacek is is being persecuted by the government because of her religious beliefs." OK, that being stated, then one MUST do their homework/research/fact finding to prove their hypothesis to be correct. Then it must hold up to scrutiny by others who understand the facts also. That is what education is all about folks. The problem here? The hypothesis is presented as fact without any investigation of the facts. And that's the name of that tune!

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 11:33 am on Mon, Nov 9, 2009.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1564

            Can someone tell me exactly where the line between a typical god fearing christian and a typical lunatic cult member lies? All religious groups from Islams to Christians to Hail-bop comet cults are the same to me. Each believe in something that is NOT REAL and take extreme "to the death" stances on their belief. Muslims want to kill you, Jonestown members wanted to kill themselves, Christians think they can pray something to actually happen!!! From my perspective this type of borderline psychotic mental state is very scary. People who believe in, and react to stuff that ain't real is something right out of a science fiction novel but you all are walking around our streets. Drugs don't seem to be the cause of this psychosis and some of you appear to be "NORMAL" when I come in contact with you, but then it rears it's ugly head "do you know Jesus?" Yes, this is America, the land of the free, freedom to have your own religion or no religion, but come on folks, there is NO BOOGEYMAN!!! It is very hard to have a serious conversation with someone who believes in stuff that is MAKE BELIEVE !!! Laying on of hands, talking in tongues, hearing gods voice, rolling on the ground in seizure type fits (I have seen it you Baptists, you) this is all very irrational and very scary to someone who does not understand or see these apparitions. Please someone explain to me (in layman’s terms) where is this all coming from. I would get up and leave if any of my doctors said "let us bow our heads and pray" giddyup!

             
          • Ms_Evans posted at 10:25 am on Mon, Nov 9, 2009.

            Ms_Evans Posts: 50


            I remain neutral here. That said, here are the facts.

            If Dr. Bukacek receives federal funding for medicaid patients, she must separate prayers from medical practice, and cannot do both within the same place or at the same time.

            What can be funded with federal dollars is "education" and "human services". What cannot be funded is proselytization or the promotion of religion, evangelization, and religious services. An organization or business can continue to promote religion, evangelize, and even hold religious services if you receive federal funds, but you cannot do these things with tax dollars.

            Federally funded services must be provided separately in time and/or place from religious services.

            That is the law.

             
          • stunned posted at 9:01 am on Mon, Nov 9, 2009.

            stunned Posts: 181

            David S., So if everything was held behind closed doors and you don't know what the charge or charges were, how can you say they had her cold? Sounds like you don't know much and want to impart this "knowledge" to the world. If you don't know what you're talking about, it's probably a good idea not to say anything. It's called defamation of character. If you want to talk about your personal experience with Annie by all means, share. If however, you don't even know what or if she was charged, best to keep quiet.

             
          • lousia posted at 8:57 am on Mon, Nov 9, 2009.

            lousia Posts: 196

            Thanks much Britt Bell for your comment , yes there is lots of hate against Dr. Bukacek now these people can vent and exasperate their true feelings. I knew this so called important garbage about DR. before alot of it is just that garabage . I thought we use to be able to have our own beliefs. But I think you better think twice about anything to do with whats right and our belief in God.I thought that was a freedom in our once great America.
            like what ragodon (thanks) said enjoy the ride. Because I think with the goverment system we have in now it might just get very interesting,anyone got your prayer rug ready.

             
          • Britt Bell posted at 8:18 am on Mon, Nov 9, 2009.

            Britt Bell Posts: 1

            Thanks for standing up for the babies of this world. We applaud your anti-abortion efforts as well as your support of self-reliant constitutionality in our country.

            We saw this same bureaucratic heavy-handedness put our daughter out of her midwifery practise several years ago, so we know what you are facing--again.

            Keep up the good fight.

            Britt and Lee Bell

             
          • ragodan posted at 12:17 am on Mon, Nov 9, 2009.

            ragodan Posts: 33

            this is EXACTLY why, we maintain our 2nd Amendment rights,,,
            things are getting out of control, I'm just glad that my private medical life is NOT in the hands of these goons, not yet anyway, communism is on it's way,,, grab your ankles and try to enjoy the ride.

             
          • DavidS posted at 11:42 pm on Sun, Nov 8, 2009.

            DavidS Posts: 420

            No, Dr. Annie didn't give her hospital privileges up willingly. She knew they had her cold on whatever grounds they charged her with, and she knew she could not win. In cases like this, the entire process is held behind closed doors so the public can never know what the truth was. It's one of the major defects of our present health care system. In any case, Annie simply chose not to contest the charges and gave up her privileges. It a court of law it's called nolo contendre.

             
          • makeadifference posted at 11:19 pm on Sun, Nov 8, 2009.

            makeadifference Posts: 3

            oh and by the way, her privledges were not revoked. She gave them up. quite different. There are numerous MD"S in the valley that choose not to go to the hospital to see thier patients. They focus on their practice and let the Hospitalists care for their patients while in the hospital. Of course they are informed and counseled by the Hospitalists about the care. This is the wave of the future folks.

             
          • Nonbeliever posted at 11:19 pm on Sun, Nov 8, 2009.

            Nonbeliever Posts: 2

            I know Annie as she was my doctor for a short time. She seems like a nice person, yet she is naive in believing that prayer could possibly work. If prayer would work why doesn't she and all her believers pray to end all illnesses and then if praying worked she would be out of a job. According to her bible in many places it says prayers will be answered and if any two people asked and it will be answered. You could pray to a rock and get exactly the same results. If what your praying for is possible to happen it just might, yet pray for something that is impossible and it won't happen. Same response as praying to a rock.

             
          • Nonbeliever posted at 11:19 pm on Sun, Nov 8, 2009.

            Nonbeliever Posts: 2

            I know Annie as she was my doctor for a short time. She seems like a nice person, yet she is naive in believing that prayer could possibly work. If prayer would work why doesn't she and all her believers pray to end all illnesses and then if praying worked she would be out of a job. According to her bible in many places it says prayers will be answered and if any two people asked and it will be answered. You could pray to a rock and get exactly the same results. If what your praying for is possible to happen it just might, yet pray for something that is impossible and it won't happen. Same response as praying to a rock.

             
          • DavidS posted at 11:15 pm on Sun, Nov 8, 2009.

            DavidS Posts: 420

            It's interesting how many of the people posting here think they really know Annie Bukacek. Some of them are even her patients. When you first meet Dr. Annie, you tend to like her. She is cute, friendly, articulate and intelligent. I'm not one of her patients, but I liked her when I first met her through a friend. She came to dinner at my home and I went to hers... far fancier than mine out there on that lake west of Kila. You should also get to know her husband; an interesting guy. Perhaps you don't know that he is also her office manager which means he keeps the books, and they have a small daughter who you also tend to like at first. The strangeness comes up at the dining table when they tell you they are not Christians but rather Messianic jews. That means she and her husband are jews who believe in the inevitable coming of the Messiah and reject the Christian teaching that Christ is or might have been the Messiah. They tell you all the glories of that and how much it inspires their lives and work. While we knew them, they suddenly pulled their daughter out of public school claiming they were teaching heathenism in the form of evolution, and they did not want their daughter to hear that. They periodically sent their daughter off to visit another medical professional who no longer lives in Montana who happens to have a lovely mixed race daughter. After a bit, Annie's daughter began to accuse her young friend there of lying and abusing her. Details are unnecessary. Suffice to say the friend... who was the administrator of a hospital in Africa... soon sent her back to Annie. Annie's life seems to have gone downhill from then. She lost her medical practice privileges at Kalispell Regional Medical Center and later set up her Hosanna practice, which can't be easy when you don't have local hospital privileges. Since then she's also become a harsh critic of Medicare and President Obama's health care reform efforts. Now suddenly the big van pulls up outside her office and commences a major Medicare/Medicaid fraud investigation. Remember, her husband keeps the books. Stay tuned, this story is not over.

             
          • makeadifference posted at 11:13 pm on Sun, Nov 8, 2009.

            makeadifference Posts: 3

            mntnagirl...come on your story sounds so contrived it is laughable. Annie DOES NOT PUSH HER PRAYER ON ANYONE! All I want to say is liar liar pants on fire.....silly I know but really, your story just made me laugh. Most likely you got a shot. And yes, it's going to hurt. Have you ever gone to the dentist. Are they hurting you on purpose? No, somthings medically hurt. All I can says is the truth is what it is and liars will be exposed for who they are. You know what Annie would say? "For they know not what they do." She would forgive them all and turn the other cheek. More than I would do for sure.

             
          • MontanaJim72 posted at 8:24 pm on Sun, Nov 8, 2009.

            MontanaJim72 Posts: 223

            It's interesting that the people who are against any government run health care plan complain that it will be riddled with fraud and waste, yet they come down on the side of this doctor, when she is the one who decided to take taxpayer money for her services. I would like to think that somebody is out there checking on how our taxpayer money is spent. If she has done nothing wrong, then she has nothing to worry about. My opinion is that she probably has done nothing wrong. However, if there is any complaint about taxpayer provided services, it needs to be checked out. I'm not sure what her complaint is other than the hassle of this being done. She accepted that this could happen when she accepted government money.

             
          • mntnagirl posted at 8:12 pm on Sun, Nov 8, 2009.

            mntnagirl Posts: 1

            I would like the world to know exactly what kind of doctor Bucacek is. When I was looking for a doctor five years ago, I chose Hosanna. I was a self-pay, so the medicaid thing doesn't apply to me. However, I see that they have also accused her of patient abuse, and that I can promise is true. I refused prayer and it was forced on me. Also, I needed a procedure done and instead of numbing the area she gave me no anaesthetic-which she should have done-and caused me enough pain that everybody in the office could hear me screaming, including the patients in the waiting room. You call this a caring doctor? I sure don't. Look into the abuse issue and see what comes up.

             
          • SteelCon posted at 6:59 pm on Sun, Nov 8, 2009.

            SteelCon Posts: 42

            I am a patient of Dr. Bukacek's and I know many of her current and former staff. It is heartening and encouraging to see all the great comments in favor of Dr. Bukacek. She is truly an Angel of Mercy and Kindness.

            I also know about one former staff member, one of the rare and few, who masquerades as a "Christian" but who has a dark heart and worships at the altar of money and assorted mammon primarily real estate. Don’t worry sister, you are going to get yours. Your name may not be in the newspaper, but lots and lots of people know who you are and more are finding out about you every day. The Grapevine lasts much longer and cuts much deeper than one newspaper article discarded the next day.

             
          • stunned posted at 6:21 pm on Sun, Nov 8, 2009.

            stunned Posts: 181

            Rawhide, if I'm not mistaken I believe they are medical records. Does anyone know for sure? She said they know information about religion, sexual orientation etc. I don't think that information would be on anything but medical records. I'm just not sure. My neighbor works for Annie. He is a Christian and he and his family are really fantastic neighbors. I'll talk with him and find out more. Also, she said she had been investigated 4 or 5 times since last spring. This is not an ongoing investigation. How many times do they have to do this to her and her patients? Do they think spending more tax dollars on another investigation may finally turn up something on her and her practice? This is just ridiculous. Can you imagine if this was a Muslim Doctor that prayed over his patients? There would be a huge outcry by the libs.

             
          • darrelldk posted at 5:51 pm on Sun, Nov 8, 2009.

            darrelldk Posts: 4

            I misstated Jefferson: He said that when government feared its citizens, that is liberty. We lost democracy a while back. Now we're losing basic human rights.

             
          • Rawhide posted at 5:50 pm on Sun, Nov 8, 2009.

            Rawhide Posts: 160

            Stunned: You are right. Dr. Bukacek did say she brought this investigation out in the open because "she wanted other physicians under investigation to know they are not alone". Thank you for correcting me and setting the record straight. For what it's worth, I hope that stack of records the investigators subpoenied are just patient billing statements and not personal medical records. (Remember that federal HIPPA law about privacy of medical records)

             
          • darrelldk posted at 5:47 pm on Sun, Nov 8, 2009.

            darrelldk Posts: 4

            Thomas Jefferson said that when government feared its citizens, that is democracy. When the citizens fear the government, that's tyranny.

            I say to CMS on behalf of BadRockBilly who would bow to CMS rather than anger anyone: Come and get me.

             
          • BadRockBilly posted at 5:22 pm on Sun, Nov 8, 2009.

            BadRockBilly Posts: 106

            Have fun with those investigators, doctor.

            Is that some kind of sarcasm?

            When Government Health Care control gets here Raluca can tell us if it's better.

             
          • Raluca posted at 4:16 pm on Sun, Nov 8, 2009.

            Raluca Posts: 1

            I wonder what the investigators would say if they knew the bogus accusations Dr. Bukacek uses to fire employees who don't agree with her. I also wonder what they would say if they knew that Dr. Bukacek doesn't always remain respectful when a patient refuses a prayer. When my mother was sick and in Dr. Bukacek's care, my mother refused a prayer and was treated less than professionally for the remainder of the visit. Soon after we entrusted another physician with her care. Have fun with those investigators, doctor.

             
          • makeadifference posted at 3:50 pm on Sun, Nov 8, 2009.

            makeadifference Posts: 3

            For you out there making allegations about the praying taking "medicare billing time" please know what you are talking about!! I take my mother to Annie BECAUSE she takes time with her and listens to her and CARES about her. The praying is awesome but compared to the time she takes to medically evaluate what is wrong and how she can help is MINUTE! The prayer last maybe 10 seconds. I can bet that those of you blasting for the prayers are the same spouting "tolorance" for gay marrige, for alternate lifestyles, for legalized marijuana or whatever that attones to your lifestyle. ! I say those that yell "tolorance!" are the LEAST tolerant people I know. They judge they condem ANYTHING that does not benefit their belief system. Please, be TOLERANT of someone who gives great compassion and care for her patients as well as their families.

             
          • stunned posted at 3:05 pm on Sun, Nov 8, 2009.

            stunned Posts: 181

            All the liberals can keep crying and whining and being intolerant. I hope that Annie gets a ton of new patients because of this article. What a wonderful thing to have your Doctor pray with you. Her business is named Hosannah Health Care for a reason. If you're not a Christian and you find this practice offensive, DON'T GO TO HER! It's just like the right I have NOT to go to a doctor that performs abortions. Liberals are so tolerant of everyone accept Christians. Just listen to the liberal posters. I bet they would respond differently if she were openly gay and talked with her patients for 30 seconds about how she is gay and wants everyone to know it. If that were the case, by all means, we MUST support her. Your hate for Christians is VERY clear. Rawhide: She said in the article that SHE came forward with this information. I usually really enjoy your posts but it's so disappointing that you would take the stance that you have.

             
          • montanamomma43 posted at 2:50 pm on Sun, Nov 8, 2009.

            montanamomma43 Posts: 1

            To all those with the same mind set as Rebel Rouser & Benznd - all I have to say that this is still a free country and if you don't like a particular Dr. you still have the option of seeing who you wish - so don't go to see Annie. Go to the Dr. of your choice while you still have that option - it just might not be that long before you are told who you can see. So stop complaining. It is also a shame that with all the fraud that is going on that they (government) chose to single out a Dr. who disagrees with their beliefs and waste our money instead of going after the real villans & those draining the system. Rethink your principles and grow up. Prayers and positive energy for Dr. Bukacek

             
          • DavidS posted at 1:31 pm on Sun, Nov 8, 2009.

            DavidS Posts: 420

            Perhaps this helps us to understand why Dr. Bukacek lost her hospital privileges at Kalispell Regional Medical Center several years ago. She should remember that sometimes prayers go unanswered. We also recall that there was another person in the valley recently claiming he was being persecuted by the government. Perhaps Annie and John Stokes should get together and compare notes.

             
          • Rawhide posted at 1:03 pm on Sun, Nov 8, 2009.

            Rawhide Posts: 160

            If this investigation has been under way since last Spring, then I wonder who chose to make it public now. Rob and Bendnz, what has come of us; I actually agree with you on this one.

             
          • faithfulone posted at 1:01 pm on Sun, Nov 8, 2009.

            faithfulone Posts: 2

            PS to Annie - you are one tiny woman with a GREAT BIG SPIRIT! Keep it up!!

             
          • faithfulone posted at 12:58 pm on Sun, Nov 8, 2009.

            faithfulone Posts: 2

            Annie - I hope you are listening. As a patient of yours, and a non believer, I think you are exceptional in every way. Never have we had such caring and knowledgeable attention given to our health concerns. Your friendship, even though we are not of religious faith, couldn't be more genuine. Every specialist that we use has has also thought very highly of your abilities. Growing up in Chicago, as you and I both did, we may be more aware than others of just what the Obamanizing of our country can mean - Chicago politics enlarged. Some will not realize this until the man in uniform comes to their door. Wake Up America.

             
          • BadRockBilly posted at 11:37 am on Sun, Nov 8, 2009.

            BadRockBilly Posts: 106

            I believe there is a benefit to using positive mental images for healing. I would be uncomfortable praying with a stranger but you can go to any doctor you want, for now.
            Is Medicaid Criminal Investigative Services a private firm?
            Does everything the bureaucrats touch turn into a stinking mess.
            "thousands of pages of rules and regulations"
            "This is a way the federal government can crush anyone financially that they choose," she said.
            What makes me think trouble makers. To who's pleasure. who benefits?

             
          • Rob123 posted at 11:37 am on Sun, Nov 8, 2009.

            Rob123 Posts: 6600

            Let's see....A Doctor who Bills the Government, gets paid by the Government, yet feels harrassed when the Government audits' their Account Payable Statement? That is thinned skinned? If it is a case of harrassment, then call the ACLU in Billings and they will take a High Profile Case like this on in a moment! No cost to the good Doctor. Of course, many pro bono lawyers representing Religeous Evangelicals also; just pick one without his/her head stuck in the clouds. You have to go through mundane district court before you whoosh up the ladder to the interesting Appeals and then Supreme. It's kind of interesting, but time consuming.

             
          • MTPatriot posted at 11:17 am on Sun, Nov 8, 2009.

            MTPatriot Posts: 3

            This act on Dr. Bukacek and Hosanna Health Care is reprehensible, and a total waste of taxpayer dollars. This action is nothing more than a raid by the government to make a political "example" of a hard working, caring doctor that the government believes is a threat to them. She's certainly not a doctor for the money - she has shown caring and compassion, and has a solid reputation locally for extending quality care to her patients. Is this the kind of action we can expect when the new health care bill becomes law?

             
          • hforms posted at 11:07 am on Sun, Nov 8, 2009.

            hforms Posts: 1

            The Government should always follow up on reports of misuse of billing in regard to Medicaid and Medicare programs. It is unfortunate that Dr. Bukacek has to deal with this inconvenience but to make it a public display of retaliation against the government and to be paranoid about the new administrations interest in her due to her practice of prayer is really going too far. I have working in healthcare and yes reputation is important, but there is no reason to believ the this investigation is the start of harrassment. Getting too outspoken too soon could make her look less professional - not more reliable.

             
          • BadRockBilly posted at 11:04 am on Sun, Nov 8, 2009.

            BadRockBilly Posts: 106

            The article caused me to jump a little.
            I guess you open the door to their investigators when you get their money.

             
          • benznd posted at 10:34 am on Sun, Nov 8, 2009.

            benznd Posts: 326

            Before anyone jumps to a conclusion that this MD is being harassed because of her stance on the current administration's policies, wait for the results of the investigation. Falsifying documents is a federal offense. Has nothing to do with one's political stance. Wait for the results. If she wishes to pray with patients who engage in the prayers of their own accord, outside the charge for services, is not an issue. Ethical? Know your doc before scheduling an appointment.

             
          • TheBlueEyedBear posted at 10:17 am on Sun, Nov 8, 2009.

            TheBlueEyedBear Posts: 1

            This is total GARBAGE!! After moving to the Flathead Valley 5 years ago I was in search of a new doctor. A neighbor happened to be working in the office of Hosanna Health Care at the time and told me of Doctor Bukacek. She helped get my first appointment with Doctor Bukacek. My friend called me later and said that she had forgot to tell me that Dr. Bukacek has a practice to praying with her patients after each visit. As I told my friend, I don't know about you, but the way this world is, I can use more prayer in my life.

            This is one of the finest people I have ever met in my life (PERIOD). To question her integrity like this is absurd! In my 65 years I have met with many physicians and have NEVER found one to be as caring as Dr. Bukacek. I thank GOD for blessing me with the good fortune to have met Annie Bukacek. And, I pray that GOD will adorn this earth with more people like her.

             
          • DiamondO posted at 9:20 am on Sun, Nov 8, 2009.

            DiamondO Posts: 3

            Dr. Bukacek is a fine physician. I have received more time and attention during my visits with her than any other physician in my 62 years. She is genuinely interested in the whole person and what is going on in his/her life. Her personal beliefs on debatable issues do not influence my evaluation of her practice of medicine. I am for a public health care plan and do not share her fundamental Christian beliefs and am pro-choice on abortion; if patients are bothered about being prayed over, they can go to another physician. She always respectfully asks permission to do so. It does not bother me in the least. In fact, I am pleased to be viewed as both body and spirit, not just another hunk of flesh to be examined. I want to attest she is both an ethical and excellent doctor. The investigation is laughable when there are doctors out there who are money-mongers and do care about 6-digit profit margins.

             
          • Claus posted at 8:08 am on Sun, Nov 8, 2009.

            Claus Posts: 399

            This is political persecution, pure and simple. Let's see, who would have a problem with her prayer, her pro-life position, and her taking a prominent role in fight against big-government socialism? The so-called progressives, that's who. They won't rest until everyone is exactly like them. If that means turning the Constitution on it's head and having some central government bureaucrat watching and controlling everything we do, they're fine with it.

            If I were Annie Bukacek, I simply wouldn't take the Medicaid patients, but she's won't turn them away, because she believes it is her duty to care for the poor. By the way, prayers take less than 30 seconds and you can decline to pray if you're a "progressive" or for any other reason. It's up to you. This is America, you know.

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 7:58 am on Sun, Nov 8, 2009.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1564

            If she is abusing medical practice by charging through medicare or medicaid for the "laying on of hands" then she should be shut down, permanently!! This is the kind of christian BS that make me want to vomit.

             
          • lousia posted at 7:39 am on Sun, Nov 8, 2009.

            lousia Posts: 196

            Dr. Annie Bukacek is the best doctor there is. I am behind her 100%. and thanks for all your prayers, I appreciate the stamia you have to stand up for us.. the last of the American people...Whats next people????

             
          • lousia posted at 7:26 am on Sun, Nov 8, 2009.

            lousia Posts: 196

            I am behind Dr. Annie Bukacek 100% plus. I never met a more caring Doctor then her. well she has had enough stamia to speak out against the mess our goverment is in and the Washington D.C. crowd came after her with a few people in the background that pretend they didn't know about the false junk they are saying about her.Who's next???
            And she is a wonderful christian . Thank you Dr. Annie Bukacek,

             
          • daredevil posted at 7:09 am on Sun, Nov 8, 2009.

            daredevil Posts: 74

            The woman is clearly wacko. I welcome any investigation.

             
          • Bronco posted at 7:02 am on Sun, Nov 8, 2009.

            Bronco Posts: 4328

            The US Gov't has some detailed guidelines to follow and their work appears heartless but I find the State's microscope just as cold and care-less. On a one-on-one basis the human side often emerges but when the pack forms and they smell blood...promotion anyone?

             
          • darrelldk posted at 6:49 am on Sun, Nov 8, 2009.

            darrelldk Posts: 4

            Dr. Annie Bukacek's experience is why as a US citizen in the land of the free, I simply refuse to do business with the US government..

            Bite me, CMS. Did you hear me? I said bite me!

            D. Kellus Pruitt DDS

             
          • accutrax posted at 6:38 am on Sun, Nov 8, 2009.

            accutrax Posts: 34

            I hope that people rally around her to support her. This must be a very trying time for someone who wants to heal people and wants people to be healed. I would like to encourage her, and let her know that she has many friends, even if many of them don't know her.

             
          • Rob123 posted at 6:28 am on Sun, Nov 8, 2009.

            Rob123 Posts: 6600

            zadaza:....Sorry, but such "Investigations" have been going on since the first bureaucrat came up with "per diem".......If it is more than a "Regulator" checking on "lawful behavior" using "taxpayer money", there are plenty of remedies. Been there, done that.

             
          • zadaja posted at 6:05 am on Sun, Nov 8, 2009.

            zadaja Posts: 3

            This is just the start of what the Obama administration can do to you if you oppose them. If you think this sort of thing can't happen to you, hang around!

             
          • Rob123 posted at 5:13 am on Sun, Nov 8, 2009.

            Rob123 Posts: 6600

            The Government has every right to make sure Medicare isn't being charged for "Prayer Time". After a timely, polite investgation, I am sure the facts will be known. If it turns into political harrassment, I am sure the good doctor has the expertise to sue the clowns.

             

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