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Running a trapline — Pursuing a wolf pack requires patience

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Posted: Saturday, June 15, 2013 10:00 pm

Baited with scent and concealed under forest duff and sticks, the traps are set Thursday on the likely travel routes surrounding a newly discovered wolf denning area in the Salish Mountains southwest of Lakeside.

The goal: getting a radio collar onto an adult wolf.

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          Welcome to the discussion.


          • Mommy Dearest posted at 5:57 pm on Wed, Jun 19, 2013.

            Mommy Dearest Posts: 846

            Morally, I stem from not slitting cows, sheep or pigs' throats or shooting them in the butt and letting the bleed out to die flopping on the ground before we butcher them. We stopped that suffering ions ago because it is wrong.

            I am for hunting for the purpose of providing food for the hunter. Clean kill from accurate methods, only.

            I am not in favor of hunting just for the kill... just as you sound as if you are against the wolf doing the same.
            I see no difference between many men and wolves as killers for "fun", "sport" or being a creatures of prey.

            I extend that morality to all creatures where man has a choice between killing, sport, suffering or food. Unlike the wolf, we have morality of conscious available, so we can choose. The wolf has only instinct because he never got to watch Big Bird on tv.

            To me man an has no moral business managing a wild species unless that species is a clear and present danger.

            Like if the wolf walks by you with an AR15 and opens up on your 4x4... by all means kill the creep.

          • MfgMan posted at 5:09 pm on Wed, Jun 19, 2013.

            MfgMan Posts: 345

            Mommy, are you against hunting deer too? If we didn't, their numbers would be out of control as well. Just trying to get a feel for exactly where you draw the moral line in the sand...

          • Mommy Dearest posted at 3:12 pm on Wed, Jun 19, 2013.

            Mommy Dearest Posts: 846

            If the wolf dilemma was isolated to Yellowstone Park and by dropping in X number of wolves solved the ecosystem to be in balance with the universe, (in whose mind that occurs is yet another topic), I might be swayed to say "Geewhilikers, thats just what the planet needed, MfgMan.".

            However, that ain't the story here. Wolves were "reintroduced" to all lands formerly hosting them before because someone noticed they were missing and we spent huge amounts to bring them back to health.

            Maybe that's a big DOH for some of us knowing that wolves would go right back to doing what the early eradicators killed them for.... being wolves! So we are right back at square one... kiiling them to control their natural behaviors, whether for "fun" or because they the are creatures of prey.

            So let the wolves kill the elk, then kill the wolves.... that has to be the equation, doesn't it? Soon they will be back out of control... unless we trap them, hunt them, shoot them with drones or whatever. Nevermind, you could hunt the elk down and feed people rather than send in the wolves.

            The point is man can't control himself much less control the universe.

            The only concept man knows is KILL to control. And man never is in control in the first place.

            It's time for a different concept.

          • MfgMan posted at 2:41 pm on Wed, Jun 19, 2013.

            MfgMan Posts: 345

            BSUjack, can you shed some further light on whether or not the wolves in MT are predominately "native" Northern Rocky or "non-native" McKenzie Valley wolves? Or if there are really any differences between the two from a practical standpoint? Based on what I've read, the wolves today do appear to be larger than what was recorded prior to their extermination...but at the same time, the population of prey is much greater today, so perhaps they simply are far better fed?

          • MfgMan posted at 2:36 pm on Wed, Jun 19, 2013.

            MfgMan Posts: 345

            Mommy Dearest, I’m not following you…you put “fun” in quotes in response to my statement that sometimes wolves will kill for fun. Can I assume then you disagree? I’m not one of those who is emotionally wrapped up in this topic, so you can’t bait me into the typical, hyperbolic diatribe. I just like to point out the facts; I suppose one could argue “fun” isn’t the most descriptive work to use. How about saying wolves will occasionally kill far more prey than they can consume? And as to the question of “why introduce them to simply kill them”, I would refer you to the point I made about Yellowstone. The ecosystem was threatened when the elk herd was 20,000 plus. Enter the wolf, problem solved. The simple fact is that man is either “all in, or all out” when it comes to managing the forests and subsequent ecosystem. You can’t log, hunt deer, elk, fish, etc…and then introduce an apex predator and do nothing. Really, it’s not that hard to follow. I’m surprised that you struggle with this concept so much.

          • BSUjack posted at 12:47 pm on Wed, Jun 19, 2013.

            BSUjack Posts: 57

            Glad we solved the intellect problem of Donho & Mommy D!! Oldhoss- Most of these repopulated Wolves came from Canada Just across the Border. The Canadian Fish/Wildlife were very helpful and Costly Too! The Wolves were captured and then flown directly to Yellowstone or a Montana State Halfway adjustment Pen by Helicopter. (Read "The Decade Of The Wolf" by two very good Federal Wildlife Biologists.) A great read for interested people around the Wolf reintroduction debacle. [smile]

          • donho posted at 9:43 am on Wed, Jun 19, 2013.

            donho Posts: 191

            Logic, you are absolutely correct!

          • LogicalOne posted at 8:27 pm on Tue, Jun 18, 2013.

            LogicalOne Posts: 173

            Dumb and dumber.... you two are bookends ends for the wolf debate.

          • Mommy Dearest posted at 8:07 pm on Tue, Jun 18, 2013.

            Mommy Dearest Posts: 846

            Ok lets review whose brain is the weakest link, Dongho.

            I said" "Anyway, whats the point to bring them back just to kill 'em? They are going to be wolves."

            You said: "mommy dumbist, is that your best" ?

            So I just parroted you after you started with the Mommy pseudonyms .

            You dummy.

          • donho posted at 7:43 pm on Tue, Jun 18, 2013.

            donho Posts: 191

            You speak of me being dumb, what is that word prior to the written word dumb? Holy cow! Does it make you feel a wee bit short of intellect? Hope my vocabulary is not to copious for your limited domain of comprehension!

          • Mommy Dearest posted at 4:54 pm on Tue, Jun 18, 2013.

            Mommy Dearest Posts: 846

            Donho you are so cute when your dumb.

          • donho posted at 4:43 pm on Tue, Jun 18, 2013.

            donho Posts: 191

            mommy dumbest, what's the point?

          • Mommy Dearest posted at 10:38 am on Tue, Jun 18, 2013.

            Mommy Dearest Posts: 846

            Yep dumbho... its called an analogy. Sorid, I know, for intellectuals like you.

            Let me bring you up to date

            TRex ate everything in sight, then; wolves do too, now.

            Man wants to manage that eating, right? Who cares what critter it is?

            What difference does a few million years make in the comparison.

            The point is man can' control the eating habits of the species without killing it off to prevent it.

            Understand Hohum?

          • donho posted at 9:48 am on Tue, Jun 18, 2013.

            donho Posts: 191

            mommy dumbist, is that your best intellectual response, comparing this year to 100 million years ago? WOW!

          • Mommy Dearest posted at 6:10 am on Tue, Jun 18, 2013.

            Mommy Dearest Posts: 846

            Wolves kill for the "fun"? Eh MfgMan? You talk to the wolves much about that or are you just quoting us some of those facts you got out of your werewolf handbook?

            How do the elk feel about them? Do you think they need counseling?

            The whole thing that is stupid about this whole wolf thing is that revolving door of death man brings to species.

            I wonder what would happen if Tyrannosaurus Rex was still wandering around. Would we "manage" that critter like the griz and the wolf? Until one ate your sheep, your dog and your mother-in-law.

            Ok two out three might be terrible.

            Anyway, whats the point to bring them back just to kill 'em? They are going to be wolves.

          • MfgMan posted at 2:51 pm on Mon, Jun 17, 2013.

            MfgMan Posts: 345

            Nothing like a wolf article to bring out the passionate few on both sides. Seems like nobody bothers to get their facts straight.

            1. april, Wolves will occasionally kill for the fun of it. I think it was over by Dillon where a pack took out something like 100 sheep in one night. But they don't make too much of a habit of it; it is a waste of energy and potential prey...but it does happen.

            2. BSUjack, yes, wolves have dramatically culled the elk population in Yellowstone. Back to a healthy, sustainable level. Back when the herd was 20k plus, they would take over Gardner in the late fall, and there would be literally thousands of elk in town. Now, the ecosystem is recovering and animals like beavers long since extinct in the park are back. Willows are growing again along the streams, water quality is improving…

            3. Oldhoss, it’s on ongoing debate whether or not the wolves that were introduced are in fact non-native. I tend to agree to the extent that the majority of “native” wolves were Rocky Mountain and not McKenzie River subspecies, but it’s very likely that both were around to some extent. But in either case, I’ve yet to see any evidence that this fundamentally changes the equation of whether or not wolves are net helpful or net harmful to the ecosystem.

          • april posted at 7:02 am on Mon, Jun 17, 2013.

            april Posts: 5

            It's astounding that some people cling to old 'wives tales' about this animal, the wolf. Wolves do NOT kill just to kill-that would be man (us-get it?). Do you not read latest studies put out by FWP, biologists, etc. that big cats have been the critter that is killing the lion's (no pun intended) share of elk calves? Did you not read the statement in this very article that deer/elk were coexisting in the same area as wolves, not running away in fear for their lives? For the record, wolves don't come to eat your kid-that would be in the fairy tales, where it seems your reality exists. Wolves, bear, cats, deer and elk coexisted in healthy and stable numbers for many generations before man came and tried to 'manage' them. Magnificence of an animal, by the way, is in the eye of the beholder-all animals are here for a reason-it is purely the ego and ignorance of man that keeps screwing things up...

          • Oldhoss posted at 1:52 pm on Sun, Jun 16, 2013.

            Oldhoss Posts: 40

            first of all, one needs to understand the wolf. he kills to kill, not just to eat. he loves to.and also, one has to understand that introducing more wolves when we have had them here forever was a mistake. we have allowed a non thinking few to dictate a cruel death to elk and deer fawns, and adults reducing herds of these magnificant animals to just a few, or in many cases extinction. what will you wolf lovers do when there is nothing left for the wolf to eat in the forest, and he comes to town to eat your pets and God forbid, your kids at the school bus stop? it has happened in other countries. look it up. and for the record, the wolf introduced here is twice the size of our native wolfs. we at one time paid hunters to kill this over populated varmit. now i feel we need a bounty on them to inspire more hunting and trapping. like the coyote, it is impossible to kill them all. so take heart wolf lovers, they, like the poor, will always be with us. but the gross over population has to go!

          • BSUjack posted at 10:58 am on Sun, Jun 16, 2013.

            BSUjack Posts: 57

            the 2 comments have proved in my view, to the waste of time, economics, and effort to list this beautiful yet cannibalistic creature as "Imminently endangered of extinction" when it was not truly in danger of extinction !! Canada had plenty along with one of our own States Alaska !!! The world Environmental Organization had then and still have the Grey wolf listed as a "Specie of Least Concern". Yet our over invigorated EPA Scientists and Biologists decided that they should be protected under the Act in the lower 48 States, and even threatened to sue the Obama Administration over a wolf recovery program. Now, 25 years later they are "delisted" because they have a good population. The only still totally Protected Program is now in Yellowstone Park. This ecosystem must now live on its own. An a food prey of Elk population of 20,000 in 1990 is now at an estimated 5000 with an estimated 100 Wolves. Good luck Wolves the rest outside the park are being quota hunted. Soon they will be back where they started in the 1980's,with just a few. Let's face it, they come in conflict with our food prey and don't give back except a license fee to shoot them. This is a questionable outcome.[sad]

          • donho posted at 9:32 am on Sun, Jun 16, 2013.

            donho Posts: 191

            Fortunately, I have an old model 30-30 Winchester, that would be more effective and productive that spends a small piece of lead quick enough to make sure the wolf does not suffer but for a split moment, if any, then they can put a collar on it, send it to the lab, and save all that money and expense to trap and tag it, plus the benefits it will be for wildlife and hunters! Especially young and excieted hunters, enjoying a great Montana tradition and life long rememberance of hunting and living the Montana experience! Apparently the MT FWP has not learned or remember the intellectual response they had when saving the salmon in Flathead Lake, and now they want to save the deer by tagging wolves!

          • mrknowitall posted at 9:31 am on Sun, Jun 16, 2013.

            mrknowitall Posts: 78

            Man. The only animal that lies , standing up!

          • MontanaTrace posted at 8:19 am on Sun, Jun 16, 2013.

            MontanaTrace Posts: 345

            What a cruel way to kill whatever steps the wrong way. Imagine those that are still alive, cowering, as the trapper approaches to finish off the suffering animal.

          • april posted at 7:33 am on Sun, Jun 16, 2013.

            april Posts: 5

            So before anyone says "this is how trapping is really done", this is NOT what people who take issue with trapping are getting vocal about. We are angry with how traps are indiscriminate, how they are not checked daily, how animals are left to suffer, how animals are killed by the trapper when they finally decide to go and see what they caught (many animals are slowly STRANGLED, have their chest STOMPED on, or BEAT to death with a club as many trappers don't even own a gun-that's why MTA is upset over the new requirement to shoot a trapped wolf). Mr. Laudon checks daily-many trappers don't even check until the spring thaw-just laziness, nothing more! Trapping causes suffering and is inherently cruel and needs to go the way of the cave man! You wanna hunt, use a gun!

          • Mommy Dearest posted at 7:31 am on Sun, Jun 16, 2013.

            Mommy Dearest Posts: 846

            This wolf crap is Insanity ! Stop !

            Man wipes the wolf of the face of the planet.

            Then man decides the wolf deserves a place here.

            Then man selectively "manages" these critters by snapping them in medeval steel jaws, chasing them with aircraft, and setting up hunts for no real hunting purpose other than to KILL them for "sport".

            Man knew the wolf would come back to do what they do best.... mesmerize humans with their aura and track down and eat anything they can catch. THATS WHAT WOLVES (or dogs) DO WHEN LEFT TO SURVIVE IN THE WILD. What is the point to wild breed and kill these guys?

            Man is the stupidest, cruelest and indeed the weakest minded animal ever created. I am so sad for both of us.... mostly for the wolf... maybe in another 100 years man will evolve.


          AP Montana