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Posted: Friday, November 5, 2010 2:00 am | Updated: 8:18 am, Tue Apr 22, 2014.

Two Flathead Valley men who were retrieving an elk in the South Fork Flathead drainage say they ended up fending off a pack of aggressive wolves Saturday.

They were forced to leave behind the elk, and they ended up killing one wolf, resulting in an investigation because wolves are still protected under the Endangered Species Act.

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          Welcome to the discussion.

          203 comments:

          • volunteer firefighter posted at 6:39 am on Sun, Sep 1, 2013.

            volunteer firefighter Posts: 131

            why a press conference??? who cares?? Wacko's on both sides of this debate!! big deal if you were " almost attacked by wolves" - its not like they were shooting at you - people have been doing this for hundreds of years, if a wolf is threatening you, kill it. Why make a big deal out of it like your the first one this has ever happened to? I guarantee you this happens to hunters every year, you just don't hear about it because normal folks are not attention whores. I see a reality show in the making!

             
          • slayer posted at 11:02 am on Wed, Nov 24, 2010.

            slayer Posts: 14

            Can anyone tell me how the gray wolf, which is not an endangered species, at least in Canada and Alaska, can be introduced to Montana and then be declared endangered?

             
          • OLDGAS posted at 7:00 pm on Sun, Nov 21, 2010.

            OLDGAS Posts: 16

            Skippy when ya snip n cut that wild mutt it won't have the ballz to be a leader anymore,,,,, just say'in !

             
          • MToutdoorsman posted at 4:08 pm on Tue, Nov 16, 2010.

            MToutdoorsman Posts: 1

            I believe this issue points out the fact that the responsibility to manage the wolf population needs to be put into the hands of the state. The feds clearly do not have a good understanding of the growing population of wolves that MT is dealing with or are far too slow in their reaction. We live in a land that we now share with the wildlife and for us to continue on as safe and as balanced as we can the wildlife needs to be managed. To say that one specific animal doesn't require the same kind of management that other animals receive is ignorant. The management does not only prosper mankind but the animals themselves. If the wolves continue to grow in population you will start to see them killing amongst themselves, starving, getting diseases, etc. It benefits both sides.

             
          • photoguy posted at 2:34 am on Sun, Nov 14, 2010.

            photoguy Posts: 940

            skippadoodoo,

            Well we can see your stance on hunting, its inhumane and barbaric...at least we know you are a staunch anti hunter! As far as a wolf coming into my yard and killing a cow then coming back to reclaim it, I know what I would do, eliminate the problem, which would be the wolf..heck if my dog killed the chickens, it would not be long for this world. And to be honest with you, a bullet is a heck of a lot more humane that many of the methods that have been used to get rid of coyotes and wolves in the past..

            I am not a wolf hater, or a wolf lover, I simply don't care if they are here or not, but if they cause problems, you take care of the problem and go on with life and I will never understand people who favor wolves over humans, it just makes no sense to me..

             
          • skippadoodoo posted at 2:02 am on Sun, Nov 14, 2010.

            skippadoodoo Posts: 15

            To oldgas, yes, surgically sterilize the Alpha Males. It's been sucessfully tested in both Alaska and Minnesota. It is a MUCH MORE HUMANE, less expensive and more predictable way to manage a species than continuing to kill generation after generation of these animals. Any management or conservation plan that involves the killing of animals is, BRUTAL, BARBAIC, ARCHAIC and INHUMANE. These guys trespassed into this Wolf packs territority and provided these Wolves with a free meal. Then they tresspassed again the following day and attempted to take the Elk back and for some reason these guys are surprised and concerned that the Wolves are acting agressive and protective of their food and their territory? If a Wolf entered your yard and killed a cow and came back later to reclaim it, how would you feel? How is this any different? Wolves acting like Wolves shouldn't be a problem. Humans acting like hypocrites should be a problem!

             
          • wyowind posted at 8:55 pm on Sat, Nov 13, 2010.

            wyowind Posts: 1

            The ESA is a Federal Law. As determined by the judge who examined Arizona's "immigration Law", it is up to the Federal Government to enforce and police the law. Why is the State of Montana paying a State game warden to take an entire day to go in and examine anything to do with wolves or a wolf pack? Montana needs to pass a State law, that allows any human to protect themselves, their animals and possessions from any aggressive animal species (non human) that threatens them, using deadly force if necessary, PERIOD. Leave it to the Feds to investigate, check out, pursue, charge, supply attorneys for public defense, use Federal courts, and underwrite all and any costs having anything to do with the ESA. Montana should follow Idaho's lead; "Idaho Fish and Game biologists and wardens will no longer monitor wolves, investigate suspected wolf kills or provide state law enforcement in response to illegal takings". PERIOD

             
          • montanaeasy56 posted at 7:22 pm on Fri, Nov 12, 2010.

            montanaeasy56 Posts: 234

            Can't we all just get along? The only way this thing can be fixed is to tweak the ESA. Change the law so that when some agency or group wants to re-introduce or save some species a plan for recovery has to be agreed to BEFORE anything more is put on the ground. The way it works now is that the wolf lovers, in this instance, got what they wanted. Wolves were released onto the landscape and starting breeding like rabbits while the plan was being developed. They were succesful in keeping the issue tied up in the courts all the while the wolf population got out of control. That was their plan. The way it works now is that the specie lovers don't have to come to the bargaining table in good faith. The public HAS no bargaining power. Until the ESA is tweaked; give me that Rodney King stick.

             
          • Cpottz posted at 7:49 am on Thu, Nov 11, 2010.

            Cpottz Posts: 4

            Timothy you really need to get educated about hunting in the wilderness. If you are 3 even 4 miles from the road, you kill the elk near sunset, hoe is it you are supposed to gte it all out? And what if you kill the elk in lodgepole timber? How do you hang it? You think these hunters are alone in the practices they use? These practices are taught in the hunters safety courses in many of the states. How rude and irresponsible of you to call these hunters irresposible and uneducated. Perhaps you have killed deer or something similar in size, but you obviously have not killed an elk farther than 5 minuters from your truck. These men did it all right, and I applaud them for being responsible hunters and actually reporting the incident instead of doing what an unethical hunter would have done, shot it shoveled it and shut-up about it. Timothy you actually owe these men an appology.

             
          • bill39 posted at 7:17 am on Thu, Nov 11, 2010.

            bill39 Posts: 1050

            Looks to me like NoEco Nazi's knows the truth about the matter. Read it, its true. They told those lies to get the ball rolling on the reintroduction of the wolves. A lot of people fell for it.

             
          • kalmom posted at 7:16 am on Thu, Nov 11, 2010.

            kalmom Posts: 17

            timothy posted "You have to be quite uneducated in the ways of the world to think you can leave a delicious-looking dead elk in the woods for 24 hours without the local carnivores helping themselves to it. " Apparently you can leave a dead elk in the woods beacause according to the story, all the meat was still there. If the wolves had wanted the dead elk they would have already eaten it. They were persuing live game-namely the horses. I do not think they were after the men, they were more likely after their horses.

             
          • timothy posted at 11:19 pm on Wed, Nov 10, 2010.

            timothy Posts: 1

            Irresponsible, uneducated hunters. Not sportsmen-like at all. If you're going to hunt elk in grizzly or wolf habitat, be prepared. Take responsibility. If you're hunting without the mearns to pack out your kill, you should either come back prepared or take precautions to protect your meat. Hang the meat. Maybe this is not the way grandpa did it, but that's because grandpa probably hunted in an era when all the wolves and grizzlies had been shot by settlers with absolutely no knowledge of ecology. Thankfully, wolves and grizzly bears are back on our landscape. Now we just need to re-inhabit the area with intelligent and ethical hunters. These guys were neither. I hope the feds arrest them for killing an endangered species, and that the state fines them for wasting meat. You have to be quite uneducated in the ways of the world to think you can leave a delicious-looking dead elk in the woods for 24 hours without the local carnivores helping themselves to it. Very stupid and unethical.

             
          • Cpottz posted at 8:37 am on Wed, Nov 10, 2010.

            Cpottz Posts: 4

            Immer,
            Yeah that post wasn't even in responce to yours. Just happened to be right after yours. Agreed we are on opposite sides of the fence on this, but yeah I remember that we came to a simple agreement on population management and numbers. It's too bad the rest cannot debate to actually resolve the issue instead of each side pushing what both sides can never agree to. Wolfspirit well said. And there is a solution, I am still comfortable with the 1200 wolves between the 3 states. Someone needs to kick WY in the you know what and tell them to wake up and abandon this varment issue. If WY is given state control to manage their wolve's, then the WDFWP can make sure the wolf numbers in their state continue to be atleast above the original 400 but not less than that number. And IF all 3 states had state management again this would no longer be an issue.

            Until then however I do see a problem with the Fed's not keeeping good track of wolf numbers. The federal government has always been useless when taking over something that was controlled by a State. If we don't come to an agreement soon the numbers could get way out of hand. Good to see your thoughts again Immer, toast to you.

             
          • OLDGAS posted at 7:03 am on Wed, Nov 10, 2010.

            OLDGAS Posts: 16

            Sterilization ? seriously spay and Neuter doesn't even control domesticated canines in society where they are approachable......in the WILD... well Its pie in the sky.... but a nice thinking try again

             
          • wolfspirit posted at 9:16 pm on Tue, Nov 9, 2010.

            wolfspirit Posts: 2

            THANK YOU- to Strider for posting the statute and a clear explanation of some typical hunting practices; montanajb for the clear and full description of packing out the meat; to houndy65 for a good explanation of why the meat would be left behind for packing out later; to BillB723 for an additional and different but clear explanation of packing out the meat; and finally, thanks to ozzmom for bringing some civility back to the forefront of the argument.

            Throughout this posting there seems to be a lot of back and forth in frustration and only a handful of people stick out that have anything intelligent to contribute. I see ignorance on both sides from many people. Ignorance is being so trapped in one way of thinking that you refuse to see the issue from the other side, and/or refuse to educate the other side on your way of thinking in order to create a true solution to the existing problem together. So thank you to those who have taken the time to explain some of the traditional practices of hunting and packing-out the meat harvested.

            I am not a hunter but I do understand and respect the need for hunting. I am a realist that admires nature and wildlife but is well aware that hunting is necessary for many families and for population control. There has got to be a solution that both sides can agree to that helps manage the wild wolf population and helps maintain the population of the herds of elk and deer for the hunting communities.

            I ask again; what about some sort of managed sterilization within some of the wolf packs and reintroduced wolves? Is this even an option and what benefits and/or consequences might we see from this type of alternative?

             
          • OLDGAS posted at 5:49 pm on Tue, Nov 9, 2010.

            OLDGAS Posts: 16

            I wouldn't wish to soil my skinner, with the blood of a wildlife sinner. But instead feed such wolf lover to his favorite money generatin cause, a dirty rotton poisnous human dinner. HOWZ that ROOTER ?

             
          • Immer Treue posted at 4:39 pm on Tue, Nov 9, 2010.

            Immer Treue Posts: 10

            Cpottz,

            Not questioning what they did with the elk, just answering an earlier post. Just trying to keep it civil as there is enough of the uncivil to go around. We have, I believe, bantered back and forth a bit. We are on somewhat opposite sides of the fence on the wolf issue, but also close on consensus as what is good for all parties with the continuing controversy.

             
          • rooter posted at 4:00 pm on Tue, Nov 9, 2010.

            rooter Posts: 171

            Just where is it I could find bear, beaver, and other critters worth cash money when skinned?

            No need to work or hunt, just hug a tree and crunch some granola.

             
          • rooter posted at 3:55 pm on Tue, Nov 9, 2010.

            rooter Posts: 171

            I am Bear Claw Chris Lapp; bloodkin to the grizzer that bit Jim Bridger's back side! YOU are molesting my hunt!

             
          • rooter posted at 3:43 pm on Tue, Nov 9, 2010.

            rooter Posts: 171

            Can you skin Griz ?
            Skin that one, pilgrim, and I'll get you another!

             
          • OLDGAS posted at 12:58 pm on Tue, Nov 9, 2010.

            OLDGAS Posts: 16

            there just has to be a way to Make NEO ECO terrorists pay.

             
          • NoEco Nazi's posted at 11:57 am on Tue, Nov 9, 2010.

            NoEco Nazi's Posts: 3

            I love reading all the experts wolf people. Talk about immature children with no clue about reality. All Attorney General should arrested Defenders of Wildlife for criminal fraud in not paying for livestock loses. USFWS so called wolf experts have been exposed as liars and frauds should also be arrested and toss in prison for life.
            Let's looks at the complete fraud of the wolves.

            Wolves balance nature and only kill the weak and the old. What fraud con artist came up with that lie. Do wolves get magically full after they kill all the weak and the old? LOL
            Wolves mate for life? Complete fraud the so called Alpha male mates all female that come into heat including his daughters.
            Wolves have never attacked anyone in North America a complete exposed LIE? Hundreds of attacks and humans death are in the historical record only a gullible child would believe that fairy tale. Not mention the stacks of attacks and humans deaths in recent history. Time for prison time for all that told that lie.
            The game is wiped out do to the wolves that is fact? So since the Eco Nazi ANTI America scum want the wolves protected humans attacks and deaths will be the end result.
            All wolf lovers should have to pay 25% of their income to pay back all the small business owners and ranchers for loses due to this useless mutt force down our throat.
            Time Americans grow up and face the truth you have been sold one big lie about wolves.

             
          • Cpottz posted at 11:31 am on Tue, Nov 9, 2010.

            Cpottz Posts: 4

            Sounds to me like this is just a simple case of wolve's being a little more hungry than usual. Stuffing an Elk with snow is common practice. Do it myself 95% of the time. Unless you pack hoists and gamble's with you when you hunt, or you can get the whole elk out in one piece, it's uncommon to hang it. And though you could bone it, bag it, then hang it, I'd still bury it. Keeping the meat frozen is essential for taste. Might not have been below 32 degrees at that time, soI think they made the responsible choice when it comes to taking care of their game. I would have done nothing different.

             
          • Immer Treue posted at 11:19 am on Tue, Nov 9, 2010.

            Immer Treue Posts: 10

            Both men rode horses and saw no evidence that wild animals had ravaged the meat, which Appleby packed with snow the previous day but did not suspend. He and Pitman say they saw a coyote track and a wolf track nearby, but no other signs of wildlife - a sweat-stained hat that Pitman left atop the quarters to deter wildlife was still in place, he said.

            This from another news article. The elk was not hung, but buried in the snow.

             
          • grandma52 posted at 9:05 pm on Mon, Nov 8, 2010.

            grandma52 Posts: 4

            People need to read the entire paper. I saw FWP's public comment period announcement about the mountain goats to be reintroduced to the Whitefish Range in the LEGALS. That was a couple of weeks ago. There are also several media sources besides the Daily Interlake. Many contradict each other so you kind of have to take your news with a grain of salt. Regarding the wolf incident, check multiple sources.

             
          • montanajb posted at 4:51 pm on Mon, Nov 8, 2010.

            montanajb Posts: 51

            Are you sure the meat was left on the ground after he shot it or do you think they may have cut it down from where it was hanging to prepare it to put in packs. Most of us are smart enough to hang it and I'm sure it would have been gone or disturbed before they showed up if it wasn't.

             
          • FlatheadGuy posted at 4:34 pm on Mon, Nov 8, 2010.

            FlatheadGuy Posts: 16

            The October 21st Daily Interlake article mentions returning mountain goats not bighorn sheep to the Whitefish Range.

             
          • mlukas posted at 4:24 pm on Mon, Nov 8, 2010.

            mlukas Posts: 1

            I'll wait to hear about where in the body the wolf was shot, but sounds like more sensationalized "wolf attack" b.s. Completely unncecessary and an excuse for covering frustration over one's own stupidity. You seriously think you could ever leave a carcass on the ground in the South Fork drainage, even before the increase in wolf numbers, and not be surprised when another predator steals it?

             
          • MTStormy posted at 3:55 pm on Mon, Nov 8, 2010.

            MTStormy Posts: 17

            Oldhiker, my thoughts exactly when I heard about the Big Horn Sheep in the Whitefish Range, more Food for the WOLVES!!! This is outta hand, come on Malloy, control the wolves and we can all be Happy. Nature needs to be in balance.

             
          • BillB723 posted at 3:07 pm on Mon, Nov 8, 2010.

            BillB723 Posts: 15

            Just wanted to say something about taking the head out and coming back for the meat It has always been done like that for years. The head is hard to pack on horses but the meat is not. I liked it when the hunters took the head out first.
            The bottom line is there is too many predators on the ground when wolves are brave enough to take over a kill from a human within 24 hours because of the sent man leaves. Let alone drive them from the kill.
            What is it going to take for people to figure out there is way to many wolves on the ground at this time. Ideal number of wolves, 3rd grade science, wolf food supply not going up or down. Deer and elk herds staying the same. Maybe it is 1st grade science, and man has just as much right to take some of the animals as the wolf. he live here too.

             
          • montanajb posted at 1:59 pm on Mon, Nov 8, 2010.

            montanajb Posts: 51

            I was just hoping I could shed some light on the subject for a few people in the discussion. A lot of people hunt with just a pack for emergency situations, and the other essential things need in field dressing an animal. The reason someone would take a rack first instead of the meat (I have done it), is because the rack is lighter, not as awkward, and the hunter is still carrying his weapon (bow or gun). They then come back depending on time of day, if it was shot in the morning they can make multiple trips in the same day, or if it was shot in the evening, they come back in the morning. If they have access to horses, great, it makes the pack much easier, but like me it's about two days of work with a frame pack. Most hunters don't usually carry a pack designed for the heavy stuff while they are actually hunting. I do understand how someone can misinterpret the large urban animal population as not having a deer and elk shortage. I see many more animals driving down the highway also. That just means that most of these animals are in safe areas, either non shooting public areas like inside city limits or other private land. There aren't too many wolves or hunters that frequent these areas, hence the large population. That's why we "hunt beyond our means" to actually get to where the animals are, I frequently take a ten to fifteen mile hike while hunting, a single person can't drag a whole elk out from that distance, but it is not beyond the means to cut it up and make multiple trips or get horses.

             
          • Cpottz posted at 1:33 pm on Mon, Nov 8, 2010.

            Cpottz Posts: 4

            From above article "He quartered the animal and hiked out with the head with the intent of returning to pack out the meat with horses the next day."

            From Not Really "These guys could not have been more than a few miles from their vehicle, but could not manage (other than the valuable head) even with horses."

            Seriously, if your going to comment regarding this issue, atleast have the presense of mind to read such article in full. If they had horses with them when the kill was made, perhaps this wouldn't be an issue. But they didn't, and did the responsible thing of going back the next day to retrieve the rest. Get a clue people these are responsible hunters and be happy that they atleast reported the incident.

             
          • jeancalvinus posted at 1:21 pm on Mon, Nov 8, 2010.

            jeancalvinus Posts: 327

            World class naivety displayed by many posting below. Makes one wonder where they would be if they had to fend for themselves out in the wild...

             
          • montanamom23 posted at 12:08 pm on Mon, Nov 8, 2010.

            montanamom23 Posts: 3

            I have noticed that Wolfer's comments have been deleted by the Interlake, so if some of these posted comments do not make sense to you, it would be because they were made in response to his violent comments.

             
          • montanamom23 posted at 12:00 pm on Mon, Nov 8, 2010.

            montanamom23 Posts: 3

            Thank you, Strider, Photoguy, Houndy65, Sanity, and others who know what they are talking about!

             
          • photoguy posted at 11:21 am on Mon, Nov 8, 2010.

            photoguy Posts: 940

            Montanansense,

            Actually they do happen year around, I have had encounters with wolves in my yard, we have a resident pack that roams around my place, as long as they cause no problem, we leave them alone, but just because we have a situation happen, does not mean it always gets reported in the media.

            Wolf situations are a year around thing in NW Montana, I do find it interesting it normally only gets front page placement during hunting season. This one got reported because the hunters involved did what the law requires of them, they reported the situation and the fact a wolf was killed. They are honest hunters, I do know few that if they shot a wolf, they would just let it lay and go on with business and not tell anyone..

            I would be very surprised after reading their written statements if any charges are filed, it seems as if it was a rare situation. Wolves don't normally abandon meat to follow human, normally once they have drove the competition off the meat they leave the competitor alone, for some reason, this pack didn't..

             
          • Strider posted at 11:02 am on Mon, Nov 8, 2010.

            Strider Posts: 432

            It's clear that many of you who question the facts presented in the article have not read the article. It's also pretty evident that you aren't reading the comments, either, because all these comments are answering your questions. No one has said there are more wolves than deer, only that the wolves REPRODUCE faster. How does a hunter know the deer & elk aren't there anymore? Track & scat if nothing else. If five years ago you could wait until you had a real good shot, but this year you may not even see a deer, the population is decidedly down..

            Some of you seem to expect the elk to be pulled out of the woods the same day, though the weight issue has been pointed out numerous times. So you, then, suggest that since they had horses... Wait just a minute. Unless you are on a pack trip, your horses are still back at the ranch. You may hunt for MANY days without seeing an elk, so you don't put the horses in a trailer & haul them way up the mountain somewhere only to leave them all alone day after day after day while you're hunting only to have to take them home every night & unload them. Do you think horses like to stay cooped up in a trailer all day long, just in case you get your elk?

            I can understand some of you having questions about this incident & hunting practices in general, but to admit or display your ignorance & then attack these guys or hunters in general, is also a display of your intolerance & judgmentalism.

            If you can't understand what's being written, how can you ever arrive at a rational decision when you vote or if you ever serve on a jury?

             
          • Not Really posted at 9:28 am on Mon, Nov 8, 2010.

            Not Really Posts: 104

            If you "pack out the elk the next day" you are hunting far beyond your means.

            It's easy to harvest, difficult to transport, no kidding.

            These guys could not have been more than a few miles from their vehicle, but could not manage (other than the valuable head) even with horses.

            Lame!

             
          • ozzmom posted at 9:01 am on Mon, Nov 8, 2010.

            ozzmom Posts: 12

            I am truly disappointed in the hatred and immaturity in these comments. You don't have to like eachother but really how much do you think you are going to be able to accomplish towards a resolution when you threaten eachother? I am a hunter and I am not a wolf supporter but I would never wish for someone to go through the anguish and terror of being mauled. I would also not threaten to kick someone's butt because their opinion differs from mine. Grow up Flathead Valley! This behavior is pathetic and is a detriment to the arguments on both sides.

             
          • houndy65 posted at 8:41 am on Mon, Nov 8, 2010.

            houndy65 Posts: 15

            Not really and anyone else who can call these men slob hunters. I believe the hunter quartered the bull elk the night before and those quarters will have 3 to 4 hundred pounds of meat, and thats not counting the deboned meat (back straps, neck and rib meat, & ect, ect.). People like yourselves don't understand that you just don't pack out a elk like you can a deer. You can say all you want to, but these men did what most of us lucky enough to harvest a elk do, we pack the elk out the next day. There have been times where it may take several days to pack out a elk if you don't use horses. So, do you understand or is because you've never hunted before like some of the other people on here. People like yourself who like to call hunters names and you yourself don't even know what your talking about. Maybe you should move back to the city and keep your mouth shout.


            here one for all you people with opinions like NOT REALLY END OF STORY!

             
          • photoguy posted at 8:37 am on Mon, Nov 8, 2010.

            photoguy Posts: 940

            He didn't have horses when he was hunting. I am a bowhunter, I normally hunt alone and I have had to leave meat overnight before, it is not an uncommon occurrence. A lot of the comments here by the non-hunting population, does show an interesting level of ignorance about hunting, which I find very interesting here in Montana that has one of the richest heritages of hunting in the country. So much so, that we changed our constitution to reflect that heritage and make it a state constitutional right to hunt.

            The comment about it being disgusting to make it a political issue, now that is a very enlightening statement, because everybody knows that in this area no matter what happens if it concerns wolves it IS a political issue and has been for a number of years now..

             
          • Not Really posted at 7:09 am on Mon, Nov 8, 2010.

            Not Really Posts: 104

            If you must leave meat on the ground you are hunting far beyond your means. These two had horses, were very close to a road (Deep Creek is not even 30 miles from Coram) and still chose to pack out the trophy, but leave the meat for scavengers.

            The disgusting part (other than Pittman's sweater) is that they tried to make it into some big political deal.

            No, you are SLOB HUNTERS and the animals stole your meat.

            END OF STORY!

             
          • pioneer posted at 6:00 am on Mon, Nov 8, 2010.

            pioneer Posts: 8

            Can't believe how these discussions end up about abortion? religion? Get real people!

            When I drive around the valley and nearby areas I can't even count how many deer I see at all times of the day. I can count endless numbers of deer right out my window every morning. I drove the West Shore of Flathead Lake a few weeks ago and saw 3 fresh dead deer still in the middle of the road within 5 miles. Maybe we should be snippers and sit along the highways and shoot at the cars for killing "ALL" the deer. lol I've seen plenty of elk this summer too. The hunters that say they are all gone must be blind. Maybe they are just poor hunters. It's obvious they like to fabricate.

            The "what if" stories are just fear mongers. The "what if" stories haven't happened people. They aren't fact and they aren't true.

             
          • bill39 posted at 5:42 am on Mon, Nov 8, 2010.

            bill39 Posts: 1050

            OK, we will see when the investigation is over. This wolf reintroduction is turning into a joke.

             
          • krispistofferson posted at 5:16 am on Mon, Nov 8, 2010.

            krispistofferson Posts: 265

            Interesting reading...as your impartial observer scoring the debate, I'd say this wolfer guy is getting his azz kicked....lol!

             
          • moosey posted at 2:31 am on Mon, Nov 8, 2010.

            moosey Posts: 2

            I've been hunting but never been attacked. We are all quite sure that we'd all defend ourselves in the case described in this article. I've also worked on ranches with distant relatives out in eastern MT. and seen these legendary "inbred" people who shoot first and fabricate a story later. Some people are not very honest. I don't believe the story from this article, that's all. This pro-wolf anti hunting poster "Wolfer" or something, is not representing all liberals or pro-wolf people. Frankly, you all should realize that he is impossible and not react to their posts.

             
          • Montanansense posted at 11:58 pm on Sun, Nov 7, 2010.

            Montanansense Posts: 5

            Hunting is an important part of the culture of Montana as well as an important part of many people's diets.
            However, it is strange that these type of wolf human encounters seem to only happen during hunting season. Everyday of the year people are out in the wilderness of Montana and these type of confrontations rarely if ever happen the rest of the year.

             
          • Strider posted at 11:37 pm on Sun, Nov 7, 2010.

            Strider Posts: 432

            After reading this, I realize we either need a new state constitution or some talking to our legislatures.

            87-1-217. Policy for management of large predators -- legislative intent. (1) In managing large predators, the primary goals of the department, in the order of listed priority, are to:
            (a) protect humans, livestock, and pets;
            (b) preserve and enhance the safety of the public during outdoor recreational and livelihood activities; and
            (c) preserve citizens' opportunities to hunt large game species.
            (2) As used in this section:
            (a) "large game species" means deer, elk, mountain sheep, moose, antelope, and mountain goats; and
            (b) "large predators" means bears, mountain lions, and wolves.
            (3) With regard to large predators, it is the intent of the legislature that the specific provisions of this section concerning the management of large predators will control the general supervisory authority of the department regarding the management of all wildlife.
            (4) For the management of wolves in accordance with the priorities established in subsection (1), the department may use lethal action to take problem wolves that attack livestock, so long as the state objective for breeding pairs has been met. For the purposes of this subsection, "problem wolves" means any individual wolf or pack of wolves with a history of livestock predation.

            History: En. Sec. 1, Ch. 212, L. 2003; amd. Sec. 1, Ch. 275, L. 2009.

            While their list of priorities includes humans, pets, livestock & "large game" animals, according to the law, there is no provision for removing problem wolves who prey on anything but livestock.

             
          • KIllinasixpackofuraday posted at 10:47 pm on Sun, Nov 7, 2010.

            KIllinasixpackofuraday Posts: 3

            From the eye of a hunter - if the wolf crosses the line it will be the best western shotin-ya ever laid your eyes upon - this situation has now become personal - I hike a lot with my child - she enjoys a west we have worked on for generation after generation - so much so that mountain ridges and remote lakes are named after our family - yes part of that settling the land was bringing the preditor populations to a level where they feared man - those that wold not fear us and kept hunting us along with other prey were simply eliminated to protect the young members of the human race - let us not get insane about returning that which has been the thorn in thy foot before - can we learn as a human race? Remember that these hunters we call wolves learn at an astonishing rate - how long do you think it will be before they stop "TRYING" to hunt men and simply come to the outskirts of our towns and cities and really feed? If we completely protect that which can and will feed upon human flesh givin the chance - we will have to answer to that child as their tears of terror spill on the soils of time as the wolf rips out a hamstring and goes for the juggler ------- NUFF SAID

             
          • wolfspirit posted at 10:40 pm on Sun, Nov 7, 2010.

            wolfspirit Posts: 2

            Wow, reading all of these postings I am truly disturbed. 'Wolfer', you need some serious help and maturity.
            First, I am a realist with a true appreciation of all wildlife. I believe that management is the key and only the state can determine the best way to manage the population for each of the species of wildlife inhabiting their area. While I am not a hunter and couldn't imagine taking an animal's life, I completely understand the need for hunting to help manage our wildlife. I also understand that hunting is still a necessity for many mid-west and north-eastern families. I am grateful that wolves are being reintroduced to the wild, but I think it should be done with selective sterilization. This way, there is some element of control upon the reintroduction rather than after-the-fact when a problem arises again and again.

            As for the hunters who were caught in this scary and intimidating situation:
            1. I respect their decision to draw and use their weapons to protect themselves; regardless of whether their attackers were wolves, bears, coyotes or even humans.
            2. Better planning for this type of situation may have prevented the death of that one wolf, but maybe they will be more careful in the future. Lesson learned and thankfully, they can go home to their families.
            3. I'm curious though, maybe because I'm not a hunter, why did they take the head out right away and leave the rest of the meat behind? Was the trophy more important in the beginning and only now that they have some explaining to do, do they care about the rest of the meat? The meat that could have fed their families for months?

            Either way, I'm sad that such an amazing creature lost his life trying to feed his family but I am still grateful that another creature survived to at least see his family again. I'm also glad that the meat of the dead Elk won't go to waste; regardless of who the beneficiary was.

             
          • Mntgal posted at 10:36 pm on Sun, Nov 7, 2010.

            Mntgal Posts: 145

            Its just funny. All summer season, people go hiking in the woods, camping etc. .. They usually carry bear spray at the most. Its just just ironic, how many animals get killed, bears. wolves, etc in the winter when the hunters go out and how many confronatations there are in the summer with hikers with bear spray or nothing at all and dont get killed. I think more animals get killed in the winter when hunters have their guns. In the summer, there are numerous confrontations with animals yet most do not result in the person getting injured or killed or the animal getting killed.

             
          • KIllinasixpackofuraday posted at 10:29 pm on Sun, Nov 7, 2010.

            KIllinasixpackofuraday Posts: 3

            There are aspects of being in the mountains that wolfers still have to understand - simply put their attitude toward a wolf pack will suddenly change the moment they have a child on a family hike and the pack turns their attention and appetite for flesh toward the wolfers family - NUFF SAID

             
          • KIllinasixpackofuraday posted at 10:13 pm on Sun, Nov 7, 2010.

            KIllinasixpackofuraday Posts: 3

            SSSSSSSSSSOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO........................ here we are - hunter against hunter - let the best armed and skillful of us win - the last go around we eliminated them - the returned only by the help of the human mind - those of us who are out among them all the time will once again be the victor!!!! Watch the action or get in the game - I'm all for 100% action and a real shoot out - it will be lead against tooth - here we go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

             
          • deerhunter posted at 9:56 pm on Sun, Nov 7, 2010.

            deerhunter Posts: 37

            hey NOT REALLY!!! you obviously didn't read the article. If you have, you would have learned that in hunting sometimes you are forced to leave meat and sometimes the whole animal in the woods overnight.. Unless that is if you and wolfer are on the same meds. You are obviously not a hunter eilther otherwise you would understand leaving meat in the woods overnight happens..When it does happen precations are taken. The topic of the conversation is basically poeple condoning the eventual elimination of hunting all together. Hunting is how human beings were first able to enjoy meat. It is a tradition that apperantley alot of people have lost in thier lives. If you forget where you came from you will never get where you want to go.

             
          • Not Really posted at 9:19 pm on Sun, Nov 7, 2010.

            Not Really Posts: 104

            Alright! A genuine cat fight. If you 2 flamers want to beat each other up it's fine with me.

            The "story" was about the slob hunters complainin' because they left their meat on the ground too long and the wild animals tried to scavenge it. Remember?

            The disgusting political aspect of it comes to us compilments of the Dailyinterlake (Idaho owned and run) Bruce Tutvedt (slow gravel sales?) and Gary Hall (just disturbed).

             
          • deerhunter posted at 9:17 pm on Sun, Nov 7, 2010.

            deerhunter Posts: 37

            wolfer.. you have either been diagnosed or need to be diagnosed completley incompetant and irrational. you truely make no sence at all.. if you ran out of meds go get some more.. if you haven't been diagosed mentally unfit, it is simply because you are so out in your own planet that rational thought is imposible for you and you never went to the doctor to find out why you cant hold a relationship with anybody. May the path of your future be brighter than that of your past..

             
          • deerhunter posted at 8:36 pm on Sun, Nov 7, 2010.

            deerhunter Posts: 37

            hey folks... if we al report the death upon us comments that wolfer is posting maybe they will just be erased by the daily interlake.. all of us and I am sure that even the pro wolf people here would agee that montanawolfer is completley out of line and frankly annoying... peace be with us all.. be safe hunting!!!!

             
          • grandma52 posted at 8:35 pm on Sun, Nov 7, 2010.

            grandma52 Posts: 4

            You know, a discussion about wolf management would be good, possibly even constructive, but some people (1) have to resort to name calling & idiotic rantings. We don't need the federal government telling ANY state how to manage the wildlife inside its borders, not just here in Montana. I hope that those 2 hunters are telling the truth and FWP confirms their story. However, if it turns out they lied, I hope they lose their licenses for many years. We don't need to provide any ammunition to the animal rights groups, Sierra Club, and Judge Malloy.

             
          • Old Hiker posted at 6:07 pm on Sun, Nov 7, 2010.

            Old Hiker Posts: 47

            Why are the Feds planning to engage in the huge expense, helicopters, etc. to bring Big Horn Sheep into the Whitefish Range in the near future? Does it make sense to provide meals for the wolves?
            Montana Fish Wildlife should be making all these decisions. The Montana FWP should be allowed to manage ALL wildlife within its borders. The increase in wolves in the Whitefish Range is the reason our deer and elk herds are lower. That is why the hunt is limited to bucks only this year. That is a reasonable management plan, to hang onto the mule and whitetails. But they also need to bring the number of wolves down along with it. The Feds needs to get out of Montana. This is a state issue.

             
          • elkhuntercowboy posted at 4:42 pm on Sun, Nov 7, 2010.

            elkhuntercowboy Posts: 1

            Our forefathers put a bounty on the wolf's head for a reason years ago. History repeats itself. In due time this animal they call the wolf will be put back into a manageable balance.

             
          • grandma52 posted at 3:33 pm on Sun, Nov 7, 2010.

            grandma52 Posts: 4

            The wolf story reminds me of the incident a couple of years ago with a hunter who shot at a grizzly that charged him while he was hunting for deer. He shot at the bear and was crucified in the media for his actions. Until you have walked in his hunting boots you do not know your reaction. All of you who have commented negatively on the wolf issue, until you have been there, you don't know what you are talking about. Many of us are very passionate about our rights and views, especially hunting. No matter what is said or written we will not change our views so don't even try. And name calling is definitely not going to help you and just serves to show the rest of the world just how uninformed you are. By the way wolfer (I agree, you don't deserve Montana in your name) you should thank God & your mommy that she didn't think of abortion.

             
          • MT300RUM posted at 2:45 pm on Sun, Nov 7, 2010.

            MT300RUM Posts: 2

            I think we have strayed from what this article is about, The right to protect ones self and property,
            We all have to make our own determination on when we feel our lives are in peril, What some might feel as life threatening, others might not, Who are we to judge these Men and the decision they made in the moment,
            We appoint ourselves judge and jury without having all the facts or information, Not only about the incident, but about the two men involved. Do you know them? Do you know them to be liars? Better yet, Were you there?
            I can not say how i would have handled the stiuation had it happened to me, But i can say if i felt my life were in danger i would do whatever i felt necessary to protect myself, my friend,and my livestock..

             
          • grandma52 posted at 2:33 pm on Sun, Nov 7, 2010.

            grandma52 Posts: 4

            Well, Montanawolfer, you are some piece of work. Lets see, you are marginally literate, uneducated, talking out of your a**, and oh, yes, about 13. Deer, elk and moose generally have one fawn or calf a year. Wolves, on the other hand, have an average of 6 pups twice a year. Wolves don't just kill to eat, either. Ask any sheep or cattle rancher in this state about that. I have been a hunter most of my adult life and in the past few years, I have seen a definite reduction in deer and elk numbers. The fawn & calf mortality rate is at about 75%, which is why this hunting season we can only harvest antlered bucks and for years only antlered bulls. In one 2 week period just recently, we saw wolves where we had never seen them before. Every time we go out hunting we see wolf tracks. I hike the woods year round and I carry a gun every time. I will use it if I have to. I do think the wolf is a magnificient animal, but needs management. Both Idaho and Montana had successful wolf hunts last year, with limited quotas. The hunts work. The anti-hunting pro-wolf liberals don't belong in Montana. You are always trying to do what you think is best for the rest of us and we don't need you or your kind telling us how to think. So montanawolfer and the others of your ilk, shut up. You are not appreciated by the majority of Montanans

             
          • BillB723 posted at 2:29 pm on Sun, Nov 7, 2010.

            BillB723 Posts: 15

            chewy I do not agree with you that Wyoming is the problem. When they were going to release the wolves each state needs this many wolves(X amount) and they would be off the EDS act. That was reached in 2002, there not off the list.
            This crap about the new science is BS, wolves travel many hundreds of miles to find mates, there for imbreeding is imposable and if Wyoming want to have wolves in only 1/4 of it's state so be it. The EDS act is broke and needs to be chanced, an animal is endangered or not endangered, controlling states by how they manage wolves is wrong. If they fall under the number then step in.
            Molly ruled with the wolf lovers and that may have killed the EDS act and most of the wolves .

             
          • lincolngal posted at 2:19 pm on Sun, Nov 7, 2010.

            lincolngal Posts: 1

            I just moved here from the city. I totally understand the situation. This is not a new topic. history always repeats itself. It is just the people who change meaning we are always reinventing the wheel. When we get old and die some younger people will be saying what we are all saying.. thinking they just came up with it.... duh duh. Managing is best and it should be a state issue not federal. who else would care more. Local or Federal?

             
          • skyni77 posted at 1:59 pm on Sun, Nov 7, 2010.

            skyni77 Posts: 3

            I hike in the mountains all the time without any firearms....I have been in the woods with them howling. Unlike you 'wolfer I have been there. Like you Chewy, I think there should be wolves and they should be manage, as I had said in my original post. 'wolfer comes in here and starts calling people names just because he doesn't agree with what people have to say, and I don't think that is right. Also you call people uneducated, do you even know what "wolfer" means you knothead...Wolfer is a term for professional and civilian wolf hunters in the 19th and the 20th century...Maybe you should do your research before you pick your name..Stay in the city you dumb a!

             
          • montanagal posted at 1:51 pm on Sun, Nov 7, 2010.

            montanagal Posts: 2

            montanawolfer* you might as well stop while your behind, you sound like you have no clue about anything, im not ignorant i consider all of the deer and elk that are disapearing and know that if we keep letting the wolves reproduce with out keeping them under control then there will no longer be elk or deer,then the wolves will starve and die off just like the elk and deer unless they startcoming into communities and attacking people and pets and livestock which they already do.and yea i do have respect for wildlife i love animals and my "mommy and daddy" also taught me to not argue with stupid people. im done , just know that you sound like a complete retard when you make ludacris comments about something you have no clue about .

             
          • Chewy posted at 12:55 pm on Sun, Nov 7, 2010.

            Chewy Posts: 65

            The reason I tend to avoid these wolf 'discussions' is because of the rudeness on both sides of the fence. Calling people names might make some people feel powerful or witty, but it does not resolve problems.

            I'm pro-wolf with a plan to manage their numbers. I know many will disagree with me on this, but I think wolves are part of our Montana heritage and I want them here. I'm also aware that they can cause problems and hardship, therefore we do need an active management program.

            Right now I think that the state of Wyoming is the biggest wolf related problem. If they would come up with a plan for a sustainable population, the wolf would be de-listed and a hunt could be resumed in Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming. The longer they remain stubborn on the wolf issue, the higher the wolf population will get.

            As I said, I'm pro-wolf, but I would never ally myself with someone like montanawolfer. He/she is just trolling for an argument. It is best to ignore people like that. But in all fairness, there are plenty of anti-wolf people who have the same trollish attitude.

             
          • MT300RUM posted at 12:23 pm on Sun, Nov 7, 2010.

            MT300RUM Posts: 2

            I am having a hard time following all of "montanawolfer" posts, I think i would prefer a face to face discussion with him. I do love how every time he calls someone a (idiot or inbred cowboy) He immediately follows it up with a grammatical errors. Obviously proving his intellectual superiority over the Inbred redneck cowboys,

             
          • Strider posted at 12:03 pm on Sun, Nov 7, 2010.

            Strider Posts: 432

            Montanawolfer: "This story would have been much better if it read wolves kill hunters and eats them. I doubt many would miss these inbred redneck hunters with their ugly cowboy hats on. These losers should have been mauled and killed by the wolves!! "

            That these people vote & serve on juries is downright scary--at least once this guy gets old enough.

             
          • slayer posted at 11:58 am on Sun, Nov 7, 2010.

            slayer Posts: 14

            Before the westward expansion, there were wolves in every state. California, Nevada, Oregon,Washington,Arizona, New Mexico etc.
            So why Haven't they ( Fish and Wildlife) re-introduced the wolves in those states as well?
            I feel that we should trap a few wolves and send them to our less fortunate neighbors.
            What do you think montanawolfer?

             
          • slayer posted at 11:52 am on Sun, Nov 7, 2010.

            slayer Posts: 14

            montanawolfer, You should be thanking these hunters. If as you say the wolves should have killed and eaten them then there would be all out war on the wolves. Try thinking..

             
          • BillB723 posted at 11:34 am on Sun, Nov 7, 2010.

            BillB723 Posts: 15

            montanawolfer if you are so upset about the inbred redneck hunters killing the pretty and nice wolf that only dose good, you and your type pick the wolves up move them to your back door (the city) and you can protect them from all the inbred redneck hunters. it's a win win for everyone.
            And you think that living in the city like ants is the cats meyow

             
          • FlatheadGuy posted at 11:19 am on Sun, Nov 7, 2010.

            FlatheadGuy Posts: 16

            it saddens me that people get so heated up about the death of one wolf while each day in the United States an average of 3,700 innocent babies are aborted. Perhaps our morals have been skewed when the death a wild animal causes more of an outrage than the death of a human being.

             
          • skyni77 posted at 10:26 am on Sun, Nov 7, 2010.

            skyni77 Posts: 3

            It is so funny how many people here think they know what they are talking about. I have saw, heard wolves and reported seeing and hearing them. You have to be a State or Government offical to get a "official sighting" on wolves or any other protected animal. I have never seen an "offical" at anytime when I have been hunting. So my belief is that they don't have a clue on how many is out there. It's amazing how some of these posters say they are hunters and outdoorsman's and claim that we do not have a wolf problem. We have the best Government in the world , but this should be a State by State issue. This shouldn't be an issue decided by people who have never been in the wild, and and the only part of the woods that they have been in is behind their big wood desk and office chair. I am a firm believer in the ecosystem, and thought it was very cool seeing my fist wolf. Now it time to thin the packs. When the deer and elk are being decimated, it's time to defend them. For those who call hunters inbred's, some of our great forfathers were hunters. You should feel very proud of yourselves sitting in your cubicles with your little nerdy glasses; you should do some research on where you get your meat from. You ever see how those animals are treated and slughtered? What the are fed with? Pumped with hormones and junk that we don't need. Think about it before you make stupid statements!

            The only things these guys did wrong was that they forgot the rule of the three S's..
            Shoot! Shovel! and Shut-up!

             
          • BillB723 posted at 10:10 am on Sun, Nov 7, 2010.

            BillB723 Posts: 15

            Not sure the hunter are telling the complete truth. Am a hunter and have packed a lot of game, and also packed animals for money. It is not very hard to pick up meat that is ready to be packed. I Think the wolves and bears had already taken over the kill and the wolves were not going to give up there kill. I do think the wolves were coming in on them (dose not matter how good of hunter your are that will unnerve you) and when they started backing off, am pretty sure the wolves followed. If it would of been me I would have killed more than one.
            I also think wolves are very very smart and they learned they can run hunters off, and If these wolves are not all killed, there will other encounters with people.

             
          • OLDGAS posted at 9:35 am on Sun, Nov 7, 2010.

            OLDGAS Posts: 16

            As Montana somehow finds a way to begin managing this wolf problem there are other problems to address. My feeling is that the mt FWP has had little to No foresight in this issue . That is one of the greatest problems we have. How do we get the State entity to turn this around ? FWP on the Publics behalf should be up to its eyeballs in turning this around. Instead with accepting federal money FWP is complacent at best . My Idea is FWP is so Over bloated with .employees and should be cleared out from one end to the other . Fwp has failed the Montana sportsman while doing bussiness as usual while huntable populations of elk and moose have been decimated . FWP is unacceptable.

             
          • Nomares posted at 9:20 am on Sun, Nov 7, 2010.

            Nomares Posts: 1

            Hi, Im a liberal from California with generations of Montana family and I thankfully live here now. We spent the first half of the century getting rid of wolves and now we are bringing them back? Wolves are viscous hunters that kill for the sake of killing. I found it interesting that it was not the magic pack that was the last pack of indigenous wolves but a "reintroduced" pack that has no fear of humans. I feel we have made a big mistake trying to reintroduce these killers and sure that this is not the last story...

             
          • 2ndGenMontanan posted at 9:05 am on Sun, Nov 7, 2010.

            2ndGenMontanan Posts: 2

            I just read the rest of your post Pioneer, men like you are so hot! Whoo!

             
          • wapiti posted at 9:05 am on Sun, Nov 7, 2010.

            wapiti Posts: 5

            sorry for the misspelling...meant to say "unless"
            (:

             
          • wapiti posted at 9:01 am on Sun, Nov 7, 2010.

            wapiti Posts: 5

            Pioneer I would disagree with you on the statement that God didn't put animals on earth for us to rule over....we need to respect them but He values us a bit different then the animals He created.....unlsee you don't believe in God. I know Mark and he loves the meat and it was his desire to have every bit of the meat.

            Remember this:

            God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

             
          • 2ndGenMontanan posted at 9:00 am on Sun, Nov 7, 2010.

            2ndGenMontanan Posts: 2

            Pioneer, it has been a while since I have heard a real bonafide cowboy in these kind of forums. You are a rare breed.

            I don't agree that all hunters are inbred. Though, some obviously act like it. Even other hunters feel this way. My husband and his father hunt, my neighbor hunts, my co-workers hunt. They know the difference between a real hunter and the wanna-bes. They feel they are misrepresented by guys like this. They do not appreciate poachers of any sort for any reason.

            I believe wolves do need to be managed, but not by people who are so ignorant (both the pro-wolf and anti-wolf crowds) that they just make up reality to suit them. Opinions are not facts. What is truly scary here is how stupid a bunch of supposedly grown people are.

            And if you really want to throw your "I-am-more-Native-than-you" baloney about, I am from the Hi-line. I grew up next to Poplar. You want to talk about how your forefathers did it right? Go down there and spout that. See how long it takes for you to get schooled by the real Natives.

             
          • Jeffak posted at 8:33 am on Sun, Nov 7, 2010.

            Jeffak Posts: 103

            I see the Walt Disney generation of environmental intellects have come from far and wide to post here in support of the inevitable results of their wolf management tactics.

             
          • Jeffak posted at 8:27 am on Sun, Nov 7, 2010.

            Jeffak Posts: 103

            I see the Walt Disney minded intellects from far and wide have shown up here to defend the inevitable negative results of their supposedly sound wolf management tactics...

             
          • pioneer posted at 6:59 am on Sun, Nov 7, 2010.

            pioneer Posts: 8

            I am a 4th generation generation to this area from both sides of my family. I am NOT proud of this because there are people who try to speak for me as NATIVES. I am proud to be a free thinker and thus able to look at problems in this area logically and am not influenced by the mantic mania of the angry masses. I am proud that most of my family were free thinkers and passionate towards the local nature that they loved.

            I am pro-hunting and pro-gun.

            Hunting should have limits. I believe hunting should be for food and immediate endangerment control only. If you can afford elaborate hunting then you can afford to buy food. Trophy hunting is for individuals who need to FABRICATE superiority over an animal whose function and intelligence is different from humans. This energy needs to be focused into pride that shows compassion and help for it's own species as well as others, where helping fellow persons and nature is recognized in the same way.

            I have lived a life exploring and appreciating this area and animals within. I have studied animal behavior all my life. I have fished and I have hunted. I am 64 years old. I enjoy the wisdom that comes from educationed pioneers who have been free thinkers themselves.

            I believe in government, laws, taxes and control.

            If people are calling you inbreds, it is out of desperation. If you are not gathering your meat at the time of a kill or storing that meat in a safe manner, you are not a good hunter. If it is left vonerable then it is up for grabs for any creature of the forest. This should be respected. If you have to make up threats using fear tactics this is not knowledge. What you believe is not necessarily right just because you believe it. What some of our forefathers did is not necessarily right.

            The 4 generations of my forefathers did not take any game other than what they needed. They respected nature. They loved nature and the complex way that it works. Not everything is put here for man. The deer and elk herds are for nature and all creatures. We do not have to be at the top of the food chain. We have to have intelligence enough to participate wisely. You are cowards if you can't deal with this.

            Man is deer and elk's worse enemy. Others species have rights too.

            Quit saying you are speaking out for Montana natives. You are not!

             
          • houndy65 posted at 11:12 pm on Sat, Nov 6, 2010.

            houndy65 Posts: 15

            I cannot believe some of the comments I'm reading on here. Some people calling hunters inbreds. I can honestly say every elk I've killed, I have left the meat and went home and gotten my horses or called my wife to bring me my horses to pack out the meat. I have packed out several elk on my back and still you need to go back and get some help and and back packs. I often wonder how people who haven't been raised or taught about wild animals would react to a sitution like this one. I would ask what if YOU the non-hunter was hiking in the mountains with your children or your prized dog and a pack of wolves came in and killed and ate your dog. How do you think your child would react and be traumatized, he or she would never want to go in the woods again.

            I'm a life long Houndsmen, trapper and bowhunter & rifle hunter. I've been asked by many people what my thoughts on wolves are. I believe our forefathers had gotten rid of the timber wolves for a reason. The wolves will go into an area and eat and kill off the elk and deer herds. You go and ask some of the old timers in their 80's and 90's what the deer & elk herds were like when they were young, they will tell you there weren't many elk and deer around. The only way the Fish & game was able to get healthy elk & deer herds was to have a bounty on wolves. We eventually killed off the timber wolves and after that it took a lot of effort from hunters to get the deer & elk herds in many parts of state of Montana to where we could have healthy enough herds to hunt. We are reverting back to unhealthy numbers of elk & deer herds in many parts of the state and some herds are gone. I can take anyone who wants to take a ride when the snow flies and show them the tracks how we are being over run by the wolves.

            I have my own theory that when the liberials (lead by the Clintons) reintroduced the non-native canadian grey wolves (not endangered) that was to control elk & deer herds. So now that the wolves control the deer & elk herds, what we need would there be to hunt elk & deer any more. What need would there be to have, own or sell guns. What a great way for the liberals to have GUN-CONTROL, limit hunting, because the wolves are controlling the deer & elk herds. This is happening in todays world and we are being controlled. The Non-endangered Canadian grey wolf is being protected by lberials, led by President Oboma and his liberial buddies and ONE JUDGE. We need to press our newly elected congress and push our Governor to remove to the Grey wolf from the endangered list and let us hunters and trappers and people in general go back to the top of the food chain!!!

            Call your congressmen and tell them enuff, enuff, what more is it going to take a person or even your child being killed, remember the young gal in alaska last year. Go ahead say oh look at the number of people attacked by wolves, but what if you or someone you was that one. We need to place the wolf in the same catagory as the coyote, varmit.

             
          • deerhunter posted at 10:31 pm on Sat, Nov 6, 2010.

            deerhunter Posts: 37

            montananative.. the post about doing the dishes was directed towards montanawolfer.. you clearly have a head on your shoulders and a good understanding on both views.. I and most evryone here don't mind a good conversation with a debate and opinionated views, however, montanawolfer is obviously dilusionally upset and stating down right negativety and hatred towards hunting, personal safety and and a misplaced love of the wolf..

             
          • Alex posted at 9:45 pm on Sat, Nov 6, 2010.

            Alex Posts: 10

            'The ignorance AND HATRED by the anti-hunting crowd is stunning!'

             
          • Alex posted at 9:40 pm on Sat, Nov 6, 2010.

            Alex Posts: 10

            The ignorance displayed by the anti-hunting crowd is stunning!

             
          • montananative posted at 8:02 pm on Sat, Nov 6, 2010.

            montananative Posts: 4

            it sounds fishy to you? perhaps you should take a walk in the woods, unarmed where this happened, you may change your mind. A wolf will kill for no reason. If you don't believe that, you should go talk to numerous ranchers who have had stock killed by wolves who use it as a training for thier young. These men did the right thing!

             
          • michael posted at 7:52 pm on Sat, Nov 6, 2010.

            michael Posts: 534

            Sounds pretty fishy to me. Maybe there was a reason to believe there might have been witness'. I'm glad the feds are the ones that make the verdict. Afraid if it was local it would be swayed .......

             
          • moosey posted at 7:52 pm on Sat, Nov 6, 2010.

            moosey Posts: 2

            I don't believe their story about why they had to shoot the wolves. I'm no expert on animal behavior nor hunting but I'm sure I read that there have been like 2 wolf on man attacks in like 100 years. Maybe they (man or wolf) were rabid.


             
          • montanaeasy56 posted at 7:11 pm on Sat, Nov 6, 2010.

            montanaeasy56 Posts: 234

            Have these knuckleheaded commenters NEVER hunted away from their truck before. The protocol for what you do if you are lucky enough to harvest an elk with little time left of daylight IS to pack out the horns FIRST. That way, the next day, you only have to worry about boning and packing the meat out, either on your back or if you have a really nice friend with horse, you are very lucky. Just simply amazing.

             
          • Mt-Hunter posted at 6:58 pm on Sat, Nov 6, 2010.

            Mt-Hunter Posts: 110

            Dear Mr. Wolfwannabe. Please go back to your POS state where u came from and we will gladly bring the wolves to you. That way, we can sit up here and tell you we need to protect all of you because the wolves are feeding on you. Hunting is a way of life up here, its what we do. Really if you don't agree with us, please take your little judge in missoula and vacate.
            As for hte wolves, there is a very good reason they were pushed out of the lower 48 states and it has nothing to do with Hunting. It has to do with livestock and wolves killing and leaving domestic animals dead all over.
            One more point. It was people like you that wanted the wolf reintroduced into the lower48, so umm now that there is obviously a problem with thier over poulation, you should probably STFU ASAP ,, Kk thanks

             
          • montananative posted at 6:37 pm on Sat, Nov 6, 2010.

            montananative Posts: 4

            MT Stormy- well said! Thank you!

             
          • MTStormy posted at 6:28 pm on Sat, Nov 6, 2010.

            MTStormy Posts: 17

            P.S. We have a right to protect ourselves and our animals no matter what! If your life is on the line or your animals, SHOOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

             
          • MTStormy posted at 6:25 pm on Sat, Nov 6, 2010.

            MTStormy Posts: 17

            montanawolfer-it's obvious you are mean and cruel and don't hunt, as most hunters respect all wildlife, but it's now out of sync, which is understood by most of us. This does need to be fixed! Sorry but you are wrong and being mean isn't going to help anyone.

             
          • montananative posted at 6:04 pm on Sat, Nov 6, 2010.

            montananative Posts: 4

            Deerhunter- I am not pro wolf and didn't say that I was.... I said there are two sides to each story and I think that possibly montanawolfer didn't have all the information. Perhaps while I am "finishing my dishes" you should re-read my post.

             
          • deerhunter posted at 5:47 pm on Sat, Nov 6, 2010.

            deerhunter Posts: 37

            oh boy here we go again!!!!!! the rest of the people that want to protect the wolf must have kicked you out of the band wagon.. you have no business in this blog.. besides it's getting late, don't you have a curfew?? Aren't your parents going to be getting home soon and taking away the computer from you?? Have you got all your chores done? go do something productive and get the dishes done or something!!!

             
          • montananative posted at 5:42 pm on Sat, Nov 6, 2010.

            montananative Posts: 4

            I do not know the family in this situation but I would like to say that I am thankful you are okay. I don't remember a year that my family turned up empty handed after a hunting season and not all of those hunts have been easy hunts, some have been miles of hiking up and down mountains. Like most hunters, we not only enjoy hunting but we rely on that meat to keep us fed during the year. We take our hunting seriously and we take every precaution possible to provide for our safety and those around us. However, things can and do happen, something anyone who has taken hunters safety learns about.

            Montanawolfer, I think we all know there are two sides to each story so I can understand your apprehension with this story. I do not know if you come from a hunting background so it could be an easy misunderstanding on your part, but it is fairly standard to pack the head/antlers out then come back for the meat if you have hiked in where there are no roads.

            It appears to me that you have a great love of wolves and are concerned for thier protection and I wonder if you would be better heard by people if you could come across as less angry and judgemental. Maybe you do have something to say but the majority of hunters will not perk up and listen while you are slinging insults. I am not a redneck hunter, nor are my family members and we care a great deal about our environment and the animals in it and the hunters that I know feel the same way. We are not a group of people who spend our days off plotting against the wolves, even if now and again we are frustrated.

            When I was a younger hunter, I hoped to see a wolf while hunting because it was something that never happened but now that has all changed. I think wolves are beautiful creatures but they are not like the loyal dog that lays at your feet and sweetly eats leftovers from your fingers, they are muscle bound, wild creatures who will defend thier territory with everthing they have and we have great reason to fear them in the woods. I have no reason to doubt what these men said. If they wanted to lie, they could have covered up thier wolf kill a whole lot easier than to take the possible punishment that could come thier way.

            So, montanawolfer, please don't judge or assume that you know what really happened on that mountain because you weren't there and as harsh as it sounds, wolves around us are reproducing quicker than anyone thought they would so, they will rebound from this. I think the more important picture is how to bridge the gap between "wolfers" and "hunters".

            As for these hunters, they did what they had to do to survive, they are people and yes, I think my children are more important than a wolf cub. And just so you know, montanawolfer, if we took a hike in the woods and were surrounded by wolves who were going to attack, kill and eat us, I think even you would be happy that I'm a girl who packs a gun because I would use it to protect you.

             
          • Happy Camper posted at 5:12 pm on Sat, Nov 6, 2010.

            Happy Camper Posts: 16

            I appreciate the hunting, the beauty of the wolves and elk and the safety of the hunters but some of the people commenting are angry scary people. Get a life.

             
          • FB dad posted at 4:19 pm on Sat, Nov 6, 2010.

            FB dad Posts: 8

            absenteemontanan

            I have $10 to put in the fund for montanawolfers one way ticket

             
          • DeesBull posted at 4:11 pm on Sat, Nov 6, 2010.

            DeesBull Posts: 9

            Yeah, there are a lot of people that need to educate themselves on both sides. Like they say, 'a little knowledge is dangerous'. I'll be the first to admit that there's a lot I still need to learn and we never stop learning.

             
          • absenteemontanan posted at 3:41 pm on Sat, Nov 6, 2010.

            absenteemontanan Posts: 42

            It has just become very clear..."montanawolfer" is actually Nancy pelosi. Not just a liberal, but a dingbat liberal.
            Please go back to Califrutia.
            We can start a fund and buy you a ticket. Or, you can use some of the welfare money you get as you are obviously incapable of supporting yourself.

             
          • Sanity posted at 2:35 pm on Sat, Nov 6, 2010.

            Sanity Posts: 46

            Well said Montanamom23! Hang in there. Many in the community are happy your family is safe and intact. Rest easy.

            Ironic that these men survived being attacked by a pack of wolves in the wild only to find themselves ravaged by the pack of bitter neighbors upon arrival home. What has happened to this great community?

            Shame on all of you hateful name callers and know- it- alls. Time to take it outside or offline fellas. No matter what side of the hunter/environmentalist movement you are on, one should recognize the near tragedy and be grateful no man was killed and understand there are families deeply affected by this event. What if children had been along for this hunting trip and their lives endangered? I keep seeing ads promoting "better to hunt with your child than hunt for your child". What if this pack of wolves had devoured or terrorized a child? Would you all be so quick to assume wrongdoing? Why promote hunting and good neighborly relations if attempting to warn the public about danger is going to get a family skewered? If I see a bear on the trail, I feel compelled to report it in the hopes that I will have saved a neighbor. When I see a mountain lion crossing the pasture into my neighbor's property, I ring them up to alert them to bring their kids and pets inside. If these men attempted to do the same in alerting the public/fellow hunters of their situation shouldn't we be thanking them and not skewering them? It's not like they stood there and shot every wolf in the pack. They did what they needed to do to survive and stopped, then alerted the authorities.

            There is obviously much opposing political view to be hashed out amongst neighbors, but that doesn't mean you can correctly place your views and assumptions on these men as if your insinuations or past angers are their truth. We were not there with them that day and no one really knows what happened. Why not just take their word for it. Is the truth really that hard to believe? That could have been you out their no matter how self-rightous or sanctimonious you feel about your hunting talents or wolf affections. If your life was endangered, you do what you have to do. Let these men rest.

             
          • slayer posted at 2:27 pm on Sat, Nov 6, 2010.

            slayer Posts: 14

            Has anyone else read the article by Toby Bridges "How Legal Was The Introduction Of Canadian Wolves Into The Northern Rockies?" In this article former Chief of National Wildlife Refuge Operations, Jim Beers out lines the way monies were illegally taken from the Pittman-Robertson Act. if this is in deed the truth then the wolves should not even be here.
            http://www.allamericanpatriot.com/content/how-legal-was-introduction-canadian-wolves-northern-rockies

             
          • Montanamomma posted at 2:18 pm on Sat, Nov 6, 2010.

            Montanamomma Posts: 41

            This story sounds fishy to me. Why would you leave all that meat and only take the head ? Yes, I understand he was on foot BUT leave the head and take some of the meat. By leaving the meat there he should have known wild animals would feed and be around to defend it. Rather than shoot warning shots he fires directly into the pack, why didn't they just get on the horses and leave ? If the meat was so important to him, he should had taken it the day before. Why hadn't he taken a horse in the first place and why was he alone ? You should never hunt alone and if our going to hunt, hunt smart.

             
          • montanagal posted at 2:17 pm on Sat, Nov 6, 2010.

            montanagal Posts: 2

            WOW! *montanawolfer* all this coming from a tree hugging enviromentalist nazi. maybe you should educate yourself. An elk is a very heavy animal (enlighten me on how you would pack a whole elk out by yourself in one day). Its common for a hunter to leave apart of the carcass behind and then come back for it (have you taken a hunters saftey course? if not please feel free to shut your mouth), How Intelligent are you? maybe you should look inside an encyclopedia before you open your big mouth, wolves have litters, deer maybe have 2 at the same time, Maybe we should stick you out in the wilderness with nothing but your bear spray and we'll see how long you last! as we limit the number of hunters that get to hunt every year we should also do so with the wolves, we are both predators (us being number 1) and we compete for meat, its a fact of life Get over it! wolves are about as worthless as a mesquito, nothing but pests taking out our meat source. everybody knows the deer and elk numbers have dropped since the wolves were reintroduced. these men were attacked before they even reached the meat, how would you handle this situation? try to walk up and pet them cooing at them as if they are the neighbors dog?(this would come in handy for many hunters who are trying to get they're meat, maybe you can post your number up so they can call you and you can go with and act as a decoy while they pack their meat out) I have a family full of hunters and i can assure you hunting (especially for elk) is no easy task, there is a lot of hiking and tracking and then when you do make a kill packing it out (even just the antlers) is a pretty hefty workout, but you would'nt know this Im sure, so i may suggest to you sir, once again, to shut your mouth.

             
          • montanamom23 posted at 1:43 pm on Sat, Nov 6, 2010.

            montanamom23 Posts: 3

            Mark went hunting on Friday and shot an elk. Raymond was NOT with him. You hunt elk where you have seen them before. You shoot what you see, if you are lucky enough to get into them. Unless you have a cow tag, it MUST have antlers. (Responding to the tropy-shoot allegation.) You hunt for the meat - a lot of good, healthy meat on an elk. Roads are closed, and it is often a long hike to get to the elk. Further to get close enough to shoot one. Then you need to find it, field dress and cut it into manageable quarters, then start the long hike out. If you are lucky enough to get an early shot, you might get it out that same day. If not, you get help, horses, and come back the next day. Mark did the best he could, but it gets dark early and it's dangerous to try to find your way out at night.
            Raymond went with Mark to help him get the elk out on SATURDAY. It's never a good idea to go alone. They did not go looking for wolves, as has ben suggested. They went to retrieve Mark's elk where it was. They were cautious upon approach. The meat had not been disturbed. There were no signs of predators. Hunting rifles were packed on the horses. They were retrieving Mark's elk.
            The .44 Raymond was wearing was purchased by his father when our boys were young and we began camping and floating with them. Its sole purpose was to protect our family if needed. Bears and mountain lions were our concerns - did not even consider wolves at that time. It was a magic gun - it was never needed as long as we had it with us. Saturday was the first time it was ever needed/used for its intended purpose of preservation of human life. Mark said that if Raymond had not had the .44. he would not have been able to get to his rifle. They would have been defenseless against this PACK of wolves.
            The PACK of wolves had not disturbed the meat. They did not show up until they had sensed live animals. They came in after the 2 and 4 legged animals that were ALIVE. The wolves chased THEM. Wolves work together to run down their prey, wear it down, and take it down. I am so thankful to God that Mark and Raymond were not torn apart by these wovles. They were forced to leave the elk behind.
            We knew, when they decided to do what they thought was the right thing, to tell authorities about their terrifying experience, that it could/would bring them more problems. A wolf hunter would not report this. These 2 good men, legal hunters, concerned for the safety of the many people, many families, many friends who recreate in th South Fork, reported this act of self-defense. They need to know.
            I like to go to the mountains to pick huckleberries. I go by myself. I enjoy the mountains, the peace, the solitude. I go to places that I am very familiar with, and my family knows where I am. I take bear spray, make noise and listen to what is around me. Until now, my only wory has been about bears and mountain lions. I know where I will NOT go. But the wolves are not confined to just the South Fork. If I am attacked by a pack of wolves, my family will find my car, but probably not me. I cannot imagine a more territying way to die.
            To those who have expressed their support, who are relieved that Mark and Ramond are alive, we are grateful. May you never go hungry, and may your family be safe from all predators. To the rest of you, "It is useless to argue with a fool". (Proverbs)

             
          • OLDGAS posted at 1:21 pm on Sat, Nov 6, 2010.

            OLDGAS Posts: 16

            It;s Very hard to sit with a Sportsman license in pocket and read about people who put nothing money wise into Mt. 's Fish Wildlife and Parks. They put their two cents in and its BuTT Lip service ... and their free speech right. This said it 's not someplace to be negative and toss around derogatory crap - A - Hole -A- . Mt. FWP in the very near future is going to have to roll back its sleaves and CUT its work force .After buying in for over four decades My yearly contribution to hunt elk and deer , birds and fish are coming to an end due to the very lack of ability to justify Harvest. I'm hopeful that FWP will do the right thing with their employees and through attrition not fill positions and go to Part time employee status for all of its people. In Helena at the head quarters i would expect the elimination program to announced in a five year Vacating of Office spaces and Leases . When a substantial number of Life long investors in Mt.s Wildlife like myself get Organized and start the ball rolling along much like with what happened in I 161 THings will have to change and Happen.

             
          • deerhunter posted at 1:12 pm on Sat, Nov 6, 2010.

            deerhunter Posts: 37

            montanawolfer... everyone in this beatiful country has the right to free speech as well as bear arms.. these are a few of the things that make this great country what it is.. the strong shal survive and the weak will perish. Darwin stated it best.. your mentality is that of the weak. you obviously couldn't survive without the benifits of the civilized society you have been permantly cruched by.. And, you certainley don't have an aprecitiation for the beautifull woods if your backing the wolves. They reproduce like rats, eat like pigs, kill like the drug gangs raveging mexico and have somehow got the support of people like you. Trying to reason with you is clearly harder than getting my 2 month old daughter to say the ABC's... What is your damage? Take a breath and think about what it truly means support the unchecked out-of-balance continued growth of the wolf.

             
          • jett007 posted at 12:36 pm on Sat, Nov 6, 2010.

            jett007 Posts: 6

            montanawolfer: One female wolf = one litter of pups per season. One female deer = 1 fawn per season. One litter > 1 fawn.

            Hunters are regulated by law. The number of animals taken by hunting is established for each species being hunted. There are no such regulations on how wolves hunt. Their population has to be managed.

            "Hunters" are not "poachers." Poaching is illegal, hunting is fully regulated by law.

            You do a lot of name calling. You throw around the word "coward" a lot. Despite your apparent belief in your superiority, you didn't even bother to read what I had previously written. I don't hunt. In fact, I probably couldn't kill a deer to save my own life. I don't own a gun and I never have.

            It's obvious there is no point in continuing any discourse with you, because you are totally blinded by your own hatred.

             
          • OLDGAS posted at 12:35 pm on Sat, Nov 6, 2010.

            OLDGAS Posts: 16

            I'm interested in Knowing what kinds of weapons were carried to investigate the incident ...Bet there were a lot of twelve gauge with alternating slug and 00 buck.........LOL !

             
          • OLDGAS posted at 12:23 pm on Sat, Nov 6, 2010.

            OLDGAS Posts: 16

            First off I"m really Happy the Men and second the Horses suffered no lasting injury or death. Refreshing to be out in Montana's great out of doors ! .I'm very Happy also to see comments from people who not only exercise their right to free speech, but their Ignorance in being, living ,and working the experience of Hunting. The more these type of people comment , the less credibility that they demonstrate. This point proven, lets move on to what is Next... I expect the powers that DICTATE will do as has been done with the Grizzly issue, and that is if a Wolf appears at anytime during a operation afield, the Kill becomes Property of the Wolf (s). I will of course find this not acceptable . In due course human causality will again occur in the state,, although it has been quite awhile ago .... and from a different specie of wolf.. Like theres really a difference since the smaller less aggressive wolves are long gone !

             
          • deerhunter posted at 12:16 pm on Sat, Nov 6, 2010.

            deerhunter Posts: 37

            Montanawolfer.. please do us all a favor and leave this conversation. you are obviously of inbred, delsuional, ignorant upbringing and you can't see past you own nose. your forefathers who had to hunt to feed the women that eventually became the generation you were born into are likely sickened by your comments.... you are a weak minded individual jumping on a weak minded bandwagon filled with ignorance that shouldn't stop until it gets back to california..

             
          • jett007 posted at 12:04 pm on Sat, Nov 6, 2010.

            jett007 Posts: 6

            montanawolfer: You called my friend--who is a decent and honest human being-- "worthless vermin" who should be "fined and jailed." The depth of your hatred and ignorance is sickening.

             
          • jett007 posted at 11:46 am on Sat, Nov 6, 2010.

            jett007 Posts: 6

            For everyone making comments using the words or phrases "rednecks" "good ole boys" and "wanton killers"--you have no clue whatsoever what you are talking about. Mark Appleby is a neighbor and a friend. He is not a trophy hunter or any of the slanderous names he is being called. He is a very hard-working individual who goes hunting to fill his freezer and feed his family. If you don't know the man, you have no business making assumptions about his character.

            Wolves multiple faster than any other large predator. They also multiply faster than game animals. Their numbers have increased far more quickly and to larger numbers than was originally stated as 'recovery' levels. They need to be appropriately managed in the same way game animals and other predators are managed. To fail to manage their population appropriately is neglectful, in the same way that failing to appropriately manage the forests has created a giant tinderbox that will one day incinerate and destroy everything in it.

            Incidentally, for anyone who thinks I'm just another "wanton killer"--I don't hunt. I don't even own a gun. But I support the logical, reasonable and rational management of wildlife populations. ALL of them. Wolves included.

             
          • absenteemontanan posted at 11:40 am on Sat, Nov 6, 2010.

            absenteemontanan Posts: 42

            montanawolfwer:
            "It would have been much better if the wolves mauled and killed the worthless hunters. There are more hunters in Montana than wolves.Hunters are overpopulated."

            A typical liberal statement. Where do these idiots come from?

             
          • deerhunter posted at 11:29 am on Sat, Nov 6, 2010.

            deerhunter Posts: 37

            montanawolfer..... one huge difference between human hunters and packs of wolves is; we as humans have seasons we hunt which allow for good reproducing cycles.. we also have times of the day which we are allowed to hunt.. your ignorance screams adolecence and lack true knowledge in your comments. you should take your uneducated, unwarrented, spineless opinions and move to iraq where people there think of free thought humans as vermin. you are a coward by your own words...

             
          • wapiti posted at 10:23 am on Sat, Nov 6, 2010.

            wapiti Posts: 5

            Good for them....this wolf issue is getting nuts....there are many comments on here that show the ignorance of the anti hunter....when will common sense come into the picture....I personally have had a few encounters with wolves...a pack surrounded me one day and I shot in the air and they all scattered, but I was concerned for my safety...next time it won't be in the air!
            I know Mark Appelby and do not think he would lie about this situation...just my 2 bits.

             
          • Strider posted at 9:15 am on Sat, Nov 6, 2010.

            Strider Posts: 432

            It is way past the time for Montana FWP to cease enforcing federal wolf policy.

            Think about some of the statements made below by the enviro wackos, the wolf lovers. These people vote & serve on juries. Scary isn't it?

             
          • petergriffin67 posted at 9:12 am on Sat, Nov 6, 2010.

            petergriffin67 Posts: 1

            43 year resident, hunter, guide. MontanaFirst said it best. I had multiple encounters with wolves this season and not one of them wanted anything to do with me, my clients or my horses. We stayed clear of areas where we harvested and posted notes on the trails notifing others of the possibility of Griz and wolves in the area. Let the state manage the game within it's borders.

            On that note, I take all of this back if they discover that these wolves were Muslims.

             
          • swamper posted at 8:33 am on Sat, Nov 6, 2010.

            swamper Posts: 6

            Whoa, hold the line every one. TIf justice is to prevail the guys should get the wolf hide and another tag!
            The wolves can be a real serious risk but that's part of the attraction of living and hunting in Montana.
            Truth to be known they are more mad about losing their meat than anything else. For my money FWP does a good job of managing the game,let them do their jobs and the rest of us take our chances in the wild!

             
          • FB dad posted at 8:31 am on Sat, Nov 6, 2010.

            FB dad Posts: 8

            Lets think about this. When a hunter goes out to harvests his animal alot do not keep in mind how far they have went. And alot of us hunters keep looking because we need the meat to feed our families, and can't afford to go to the stores to buy the meat everyday.Also can't afford to drive all over to shoot from the "road". They did everything right. It should not matter what was taken out first, the point is that they went back. Survival is the name of the game and the wolf lost, that is nature. Too bad more didn't reach the same fate. But what this all comes down too is the government not listening to the people. None of this would of happend if they would just listen, the majority of Montanans do not want Wolves, but noooo they only listen to the extreme enviros. Look what they did to our country side with the logging. Our forests are unhealthy and it cost thousands of jobs across the state and if these wolves are not managed we will not have enough game to feed our families. We need to take back our state and send all the enviros and some politicians to a area with a ten foot fence all the way around and they can hug all the trees they want and pet the wolves. Then we can log and hunt in peace. No one loves the forest more than a logger and no one loves wildlife more than a hunter.

             
          • Not Really posted at 8:19 am on Sat, Nov 6, 2010.

            Not Really Posts: 104

            Phoney - baloney.

            These guys were probably baiting and got more than they expected.

            Were they hoping for a bear and got angry when they only attracted wolves.

            BTW - If you're that frightened, maybe you two should get another hobby.

             
          • stunned posted at 7:23 am on Sat, Nov 6, 2010.

            stunned Posts: 181

            I am so glad these men are safe!!!!!!!

             
          • montanaeasy56 posted at 9:14 pm on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            montanaeasy56 Posts: 234

            Hey topcat...don't kid yourself. Now that the election is over and these political pedophiles have used the wolf issue to garner votes, let me know when they bring up the topic of wolves again... I suspect you won't hear another word from Baucus, Rehberg, Tester, or any of the rest of the pedophiles until..lets say...two years...amazing how that just so happens to coiincide with the next election cycle...Don't be so naive.

             
          • Sanity posted at 9:12 pm on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            Sanity Posts: 46

            I sat and read through all of these remarks expecting heat and passion regarding this incident, but for some reason still remain appalled at all the venom and hate. I understand opposing views and differing politics, but why can't this community have a discussion or exchange views regarding an issue so important to our heritage and daily lives without the name-calling and presumptuous statements? The "wolf issue" is undoubtedly one that needs examination, but it requires civil cooperation amongst the people most affected by it. None of us were there with those guys and know what they went through. Look how terrified locals are of pit bulls charging them and we question the fear of these men charged by wolves??? What would you have done? Balancing our hunting heritage with the sense of wolf protection is a daunting challenge, but if we can't even discuss it without reducing ourselves to juvenile rantings, how are we ever gonna get anywhere? Such a disincentive for people watching these guys get ripped for trying to do the right thing. Were they not supposed to mention the wolf killing and just hide it? The way they are being treated just encourages people to break laws and cover up. How should this be handled...Diplomacy, respect, patience, sanity???? Or just yell at each other and call folks names, that'll do it...Fixes everything. Politics aside, I wasnt there, but if my family was charged by a wolf, pit bull, mugger, etc. I am gonna defend. Few wants to see innocent people or animals, endangered or not, hurt and hunting is a cherished way of life here, so balance must be achieved. Surely we can calm down and settle things like civilized human beings and not a pack of frenzied wolves going for the jugular.

             
          • Strider posted at 9:10 pm on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            Strider Posts: 432

            http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/7436354/Wolf-attack-jogger-hunt-planned-by-plane-and-on-foot-for-deadly-pack.html

             
          • Buddumber posted at 8:45 pm on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            Buddumber Posts: 1

            I'm still trying to figure out why they consider the wolves endangered. They claim there are about 3000 in the US, but they forgot to include the count from Alaska which is 7000 to 10,000. I think they are still a US State. But if you look at the count for North America, you can include Canada...They only have 30 to 50 THOUSAND WOLVES!! I'm sure none of them are "illegal aliens" and crossed the border into Montana. Don't worry...I bet they will say "aye" before they attack.
            The federal government, who is protecting the wolves won't consider a wolf attack on a human unless the wolf kills the human. That is why it is said that wolves don't attack humans. In 1980 India reported over 100 humans killed by wolves in one year. Yes, wolves kill people. But they also kill livestock which affects the lively hood of someone who has invested his or her life into producing animals to sell for a living, not to feed a pack of wolves.
            If you consider just the 3000 wolves that the Federal Government counts and say 1/3 of those are producing females giving birth to 5 to 7 pups in each litter, say two die out of each litter you still have no less then 5,000 wolves produced each year if they only have one litter a year. That's figuring pretty low I think; Especially if you figure that once in a blue moon a few of those Canadians are still going to wonder in...And we still haven't counted Alaska's wolves....Which they can't hunt because of some pompus judge in Los Angeles.
            If the government would quit letting people in the US our population wouldn't be so huge and maybe we could quite building trac houses in areas that have in the past occupied wild life. Face it, it isn't the Rancher that has taken the land from the wildlife...this area was made up of mostly ranches and it has slowly been sold off and developed pushing the wild animals back giving them less room to live and hunt
            So, lets save the wolf, move it back into the areas that have truely been taken from them. Are you ready to give up your pets, kids maybe yourself. Do you want to walk out of your house and see your animal torn to bits. Washington DC already had enough two legged wolves, but I'm sure they could use some four legged ones as a reality check. Dog eat Dog!

            The Philosophy of Conservation - Our forefathers always believed that they had the right and obligation to protect their livelihoods. Considerable distance was necessary between man and wolf for the wolf to survive.That means we need to at least be able to shoot the wolf as protection for our livelihood. Hunt them to keep the control and keep them back from campgrounds, ranches etc.


             
          • montanaeasy56 posted at 7:56 pm on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            montanaeasy56 Posts: 234

            Boy, I sat patiently and read all the comments on this story. I have to say, there are a bunch of knuckleheads commenting here...Most, I suspect have never hunted more than a rifle's length from their truck, and the rest..well, they are just plain stupid. These guys only did one thing wrong...and that was to stop shooting. Ill every wolf you are lucky enough to see. And, yes, if it takes leaving "bait" out in the woods to get the job done...then go ahead and do it. Your grandchildren will thank you for saving hunting in Montana from the idiots at the FWP and USFWS. Just in case anyone would misinterpret my "political" views on the wolf, my license plates say "WUFKLR", and yes I will.

             
          • 3rd generation cfalls posted at 7:50 pm on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            3rd generation cfalls Posts: 2

            SiTiNi: Since you obviously know nothing of the hunting culture I will try to help. An elk is comprised of 5 parts that the hunter is trying to recover. 2 front quarters of equal weight, 2 rear quarters of equal weight and the head.
            When packing with horses you would obviously take the oddball weight out on your back as is difficult to pack on horse without equal on other side. You should learn something about what you talk about before speaking and making judgements of people. Like I wouldn't tell you how to load your medical marijuana pipe without proper education!

             
          • campo posted at 7:34 pm on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            campo Posts: 136

            Montanafirst, did you even read the article? I have to assume these two are telling it like it happened. Why would someone make up this much of a story just to shoot a wolf? Get drug through a federal investigation, just to shoot a wolf? Riiiiiight. I think a root canal, a full body wax, and a colonoscopy from a frozen drain snake on the same day would be more fun. Mtngal, seriously, you have got to get out more. "They should have dropped what they were doing", they did, and grabbed guns, that is what they had time to do. HAHAHA!!! Yeah, just gallop off a snow covered hillside or gated road full of blowdown, alder, and false huckleberry. Wait, what would be more fun than a horse wreck, hmmmm, oh ya, how about a federal investigation, losing my hunting license, and getting a felony and a giant fine! Shoot em! Again, have you ever actually been in the southfork? Or is lone pine state park your version of wild?

            So what grand amount of logic was injected into all this? Montanafirst said 'Knowing they had shot the elk in grizzly and wolf habitat, left it over night should have alerted knowledgeable hunters to be prepared for carnivores to be there and be aggressively defending a food source.'

            From the article, "They rode in about two about two hours from their truck and carefully approached the downed elk, knowing there could be bears or wolves in the area."

            'When they saw the wolves on the hillside they could have fired in the air or near them', From the article, " who first saw a group of wolves approaching no more than 30 to 40 yards away." Time to fire at them!!

            You said, " they probably did not even know the hunters were there", that is one of the most ridiculous things anyone has written on this whole ludacris blog. If you think those wolves couldn't smell two "stinky" people and their horses, you are CRACKED! Did you write that with a straight face? I hope not. Those guys sat around eating food, having their scent drift through the woods for an hour!(again, from the article) Every bear, coyote, lion, and wolf, within a half mile knew they were there. Trust me, they knew humans and horses were there. Cripes my house mutt would have known that. 40 yards is too close, that is showing no fear, they need to learn fear of humans, shooting one right in front of the others, is the very best way for them to learn. The wolf worshipers here should rejoice in a good lesson for their "god". The firefighter pack shouldn't be approaching too many more people and/or horses. If they continue this behavior, MT FWP has a helicopter and some shotguns with buckshot.

             
          • MTStormy posted at 7:25 pm on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            MTStormy Posts: 17

            The wolf recovery is a success now let's CONTROL THEM!!!! It's so sad the environmentalists don't care about the elk, deer, or us, just their agenda "wolves, wolves, and more wolves!"

             
          • topcat posted at 7:20 pm on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            topcat Posts: 2

            This story sounds familiar. Does the name Robert Patton ring a bell? You libs just don't know when to quit. But thats OK... the match was lit Tuesday at the polls. Burn baby burn!!!

             
          • cityboy posted at 6:58 pm on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            cityboy Posts: 3

            They held a press conference...Oh My, Media Wolves are not endangerd. This never should have gotten out of the "GOBN" network (good 'ol boy network), they were there>>> real time<< and it was probably a "mess" and scary. The only thing that happened here was a hunting trip. Glad every human is safe. Judge not.....

             
          • 3rd generation cfalls posted at 6:46 pm on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            3rd generation cfalls Posts: 2

            the comments on this story should enrage every sportsman in this state. What Hoooieyy! We do not need or want wolves! PERIOD! Things were just fine without them. This reintroduction,management and protection of them is hogwash. Folks who just don't know what they are doing are falling into the save the world garbage and forcing their bologna onto other folks who just don't know any better! And they are all from somewhere else. I've hunted the south fork and upper middle fork my whole life and hanging meat in the woods is commonplace. Its called logistics. The reason we go farther into woods to harvest game is to get away from people! oh yeah and we go there because we can! Anyway if this turns into anything but a self defense issue I guarentee I will be the first person donating to these folks defense fund!

             
          • Partyer posted at 6:36 pm on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            Partyer Posts: 684

            These guys need shooting lessons. And to shut up.

             
          • Mntgal posted at 6:35 pm on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            Mntgal Posts: 145

            Montanafirst, finally someone who has some logic. Thank you.

             
          • joesph posted at 5:55 pm on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            joesph Posts: 16

            It is time to reclaim our home from the envirocommunists. This event was going to happen sooner or later and it will happen again. The thing is boys and girls it affects us locally so lets solve it locally. If you incounter a pack descreetly resolve the problem. You will NOT get a fair investigation or trial so why bother.

             
          • Billy posted at 5:45 pm on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            Billy Posts: 72

            I've always been a bit irritated by the ignorant ranting’s of wolf supporters. My sincere apology, “stupid” is not your fault.

             
          • huntmt posted at 5:41 pm on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            huntmt Posts: 1

            its so sad to see some of these comments. all of this OUT OF STATE INFLUENCEis no longer a joke, its getting serious. i dont understand why all these OUT OF STATERS are coming here and trying to change this beautiful place into something it aint. go back home and hate wolves, dont intrude and state your uneducated thoughts. HUNTING IS A MONTANA TRADITION and wolves need to be managed. the good ol boys are so few and far between and its disgusting it has to be like this.

             
          • kalispelljp posted at 5:11 pm on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            kalispelljp Posts: 1

            I personally know this hunter and can say he is no "trophy hunter" and that he is a responisble, ethical and well seasoned hunter. If he shot in self defense, thats what happened. He stated they were aware that bears or other predators were a concern, and just so happend that those concerns were realized.

            Ask your self what you would have done in the same circumstances? Get the facts straight, they are clear in the article right above this. You say they had prior warning and should have got on their horses and ran away, well your right they said they saw them "running at full stride" when they saw them 40 yards away! Do you know how fast a wolf can cover 40 yards? Pretty damn fast. And running at horses and humans that close was clearly a threat to saftey and to the horses. They acted according to the circumstances and thank God they are safe. It is unfortunate, but they did what was necessary and I commend them. Mark Appleby is a good human being, and I am glad that you will be around for your wife and daughters.

             
          • Mntgal posted at 4:26 pm on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            Mntgal Posts: 145

            Kalispelldude- The story is so embellished and that is what enrages me. They are not attacked or chased by the wolves. The wolves followed them in the area and out of sight for 200 YARDS according to the investigation. That is less than a tenth of a mile. Their story makes it seem like were chased all the way back to their car. They had prior warning. The first time they saw the wolf pack and noticed their horses were spooked they should have dropped what they were doing, got on their horses and galloped out of the area. Human lives were in danger is such a bull statement, it was their own doing. You left a bloody carcass overnight deep in the woods, what do you expect when you go back to it? Butterflies flying around? And then to stupidly hold a news conference and say that this proves their are too many wolves around and we have to hunt them is so lacking in intelligence. The pack smelled the kill because the idiot cut it up and left it there overnight and they claimed it. I do not feel sorry for them. Its such a made up story it makes me sick.

             
          • montanafirst posted at 4:22 pm on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            montanafirst Posts: 2

            I don't believe these hunters were endangered for their lives for one minute. The wolves rushed in because of the overpowering smell of fresh meat, they probably did not even know the hunters were there or that close to the dead elk. To just pull your handgun and shoot because you saw a wolf through the trees is very foolish and irresponsible. Of course the horses are going to act up... an experienced hunter would have know that and lead them away before trying to get on them. The wolf tracks a few hundred yards following the horses does not mean they were "after" the hunters to attack them. Knowing they had shot the elk in grizzly and wolf habitat, left it over night should have alerted knowledgeable hunters to be prepared for carnivores to be there and be aggressively defending a food source. When they saw the wolves on the hillside they could have fired in the air or near them... when they indeed fired, the wolves did retreat, the howling and mingling and wandering around on the hillside by the wolves was only the result of the smell of fresh meat. To mix this situation up with the fact of fearing for your life is really stretching it. This reaction to wolves coming into a hunter kill site will only create more situations where hunters will simply shoot and kill without really taking adequate precautions in grizzly and wolf country. Hunters already hate the wolves for reducing elk and deer numbers, if these guys get away with this crazy story it will only mean more incidents will occur. Lived here all my life, hunted all my life and do not love the wolves, I believe we have to many on the landscape to adequately sustain themselves and allow other wildlife to perpetuate, but I do not believe they are "wanton" killers of anything that stands in their way of a meal, history as not proven that to be the case. There's always exceptions to everything in nature, but don't think this is one those exceptions.

             
          • LOGGER posted at 3:40 pm on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            LOGGER Posts: 2

            All this projected "fear" of wolves. ! Ever looked at the number of violent offenders or sexual predators living in this area? Just do a google search and it will give you some idea of what "animal" you should be really wary of.
            I'll take my chances with a wolf pack any day as compared to some of the miscreants living around here.
            And 'campo".......that your real name?

             
          • campo posted at 3:22 pm on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            campo Posts: 136

            To me, the bottom line in this whole thing, a pack of wolves approached not one but two humans without fear, that is enough for me, you have to shoot one. The game warden went up and apparently verified the distances, the story, in snow, very easy to see how something like this played out. You can't wait to see if one actually bites you to decide to defend yourself, that would be too late. So you turkeys can bring up all the other extraneous stuff, these guys did the right thing.
            Apparently some of you know one or both of these guys and are calling one a liar, why don't you post up your real names. I don't care what you know of them, he killed a wolf inside 30 or 40 yards, the wolf shouldn't have been that close.

             
          • DeesBull posted at 3:16 pm on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            DeesBull Posts: 9

            @tileman1814; Since you took a personal shot at me I will answer. I never said in my post that I take the side of the wolves nor did I say I was a wolf lover. My biggest problem is that I don't put up with stupidity well. If you call yourself a hunter then you should know how to hunt and know what you are going to have to do when you set out to get an elk. You know you have to have a plan to deal with taking your game out of the woods and what may happen if you walk off and leave it. You don't say 'hey, we got one! what do we do now?'. To me that is someone that is lacking in the intelligence area. If you can't hunt responsibly then you have no business in the woods to begin with. They actually make 'sleds' and other devices to haul out large game. Not just what you can carry. Duh....

             
          • MfgMan posted at 3:05 pm on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            MfgMan Posts: 345

            rogue2381 - Thank you. I'm a MT native, but I live out of state and only make it back to spend my summer vacations in the Flathead, although my wife and two boys spend the whole summer. I'm in the middle ground on wolves, but one thing I know for certain is that they need to be managed, and that the biologist would be well served to listen to what the hunters are telling them. I no longer hunt, but may do so again when my boys are older. When I do hunt again, I fully expect to meet nothing but conciensious outdoorsman like yourself.

             
          • rogue2381 posted at 2:23 pm on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            rogue2381 Posts: 3

            @SiTiNi - An average brow-tined bull elk weighs anywhere from 400-700 lbs on the hoof. This means that dressed out (gutted, boned and skinned) you are looking at about 250 - 300 lbs of meat to pack out. I don't know if you have ever tried to lift more than your beer mug, but 250 - 300 lbs is a lot of weight.

            Personally, I am 6'2" tall, and 230 lbs. I have carried an 80 lbs pack before, and with frequent (every few hundred yards) breaks I was able to carry that weight. It is not realistic to assume that anyone can get all of, most of, or hardly any of, the meat out the day of the kill unless you have several people with you and are within close proximity to cars. And BTW Elk are hardly ever found in close proximity to vehicular access, something about that being hazardous to their health and well being.

            So it is NORMAL, and ADVISED to do exactly what Appleby did... Gut & quarter the Elk, move the meat away from the gut pile (usually not very far bc remember it is 250 - 300 lbs of meat, more if it hasn't been boned yet). And return with help either the same day (if there is enough light) or the next day. And when you are six miles in, it is almost always going to be the next day.

            And all this crap about killing it just for the horns... STFU. The South Fork of the Flathead is Browtined Bull Only this year. Meaning it has to be an Adult Male Elk to be legal. I don't care if he only took the tail of the Elk out the first day, he was coming back in with horses and help to collect the rest of the elk and take it out.

            For the record my name is Braden Pitman and Raymond is my little brother. We are both 5th Generation Montanan's and grew up running around the woods with our father, mostly in Grizzly Country. When hunting as teenagers Ray and I ended up standing 25-50 feet from a grizzly in the pre-dawn dark and walked away without having to shoot, albeit very nervously, backwards, with rifles up and fingers on the triggers... if he was shooting it was bc he felt he had to. End of Story. Any questions?

            You sir, are ignorant, unexperienced and uneducated. Please refrain from spreading your stupidity in this matter any further.

             
          • deerhunter posted at 2:07 pm on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            deerhunter Posts: 37

            I simply don't believe the amount of ignorance in some of these comments.. if you don't hunt, you have no right to make a judgment on those that do. If you buy all your meat at a supermarket, good for you... The "tradition" of hunting is what fed americans and all humans for as long as we have been on this planet until the mass slaughter houses started feeding the world. If you want to complain about something complain about the great tasting beef that is harvested in a much more cruel but effective and profitable manor... Better yet why don't you just quit eating meat alltogether and just survive on granola.. If you "wolf lovers" out there don't want to see them get killed stop reading the newspapers. Go out in the woods and try to get a photo shoot of youself petting a wolf just so I can find your camera after you became the next meal of the "beloved wolf".. seriously folks these are killers. Plain and simple. they live to kill, they breed and kill more. If no-one was to manage the wolf there would be NO other animals in the woods. Moose reproduce very slowly and a calf moose or elk has no chance running from a wolf pack, especially when the wolf pack is on the heals of moose or elk in labor and the newborn is torn to pieces before it can even open its eyes.. you brain dead wolf lovers should go back to whatever state you called home before you moved to this beautiful state.

             
          • absenteemontanan posted at 2:04 pm on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            absenteemontanan Posts: 42

            JOSEPH
            You meant the three S's (shoot, shovel & shutup) but that's OK. We got your meaning.
            Semper Paratus!!

             
          • JessicaH posted at 2:04 pm on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            JessicaH Posts: 1

            I knew there were a lot of mentally disturbed people in Montana, and these comments just confirm that. You would have let the wolves come after you instead of protecting yourselves and shooting? PLEASE! You must be delusional! You'd have done the same thing as these men did if you were in their shoes. Quit lying to yourselves.

             
          • LOGGER posted at 2:03 pm on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            LOGGER Posts: 2

            ettubutte posted at 12:36 pm on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.
            Posts: 1
            Hey, Appleby! Are you sure you're not the balloon boy's old man? Why don't you tell your stupid story to Oprah! I'm sure Oprah will buy it. Get this: "They were in a frenzy," "They were howling. It was eerie.'' That's almost word for word the same sappy account as we heard last year. "Frenzy", "eerie howling", they use the same words to tell the same lies. How do I know? Because they always follow it up the same way: "There's just too many wolves," Appleby said. "We've got to hunt them because it's just getting out of hand." Admit it, you didn't have to keep hunting right up until dark. You could have quit an hour before the sun went down. But not you. You knew there was a grizzly in the area, didn't you. That's what you wanted. That's what you came back for the next day, not the meat. The elk meat was always secondary to you wasn't it. You wanted a grizzly bear and all you got was a silly wolf. Give us the "balloon boy" again, Appleby. That was a good one.

            Right on, ettubutte!!!!! WE ALL KNOW APPLEBY!

             
          • tileman1814 posted at 1:48 pm on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            tileman1814 Posts: 100

            OK,i have it all worked out.We need to have someone go in and trap several wolves and give them to wolfwatcher,deesbull,notreally,wolfpack SiTiNi,knowzy1,and a few others to keep as house pets.thats hould get rid of the morons that seem to think these animals are so friggen wonderful,then we can kill off the rest of the wolves.this idea should get rid of the idiots and the wolves.


            Semper Fi !!!

             
          • SiTiNi posted at 1:39 pm on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            SiTiNi Posts: 2

            @JimInTFalls...First of all spelling doesn't really have anything to do with the subject, But since you prefer the correct spelling then carcasses were left by the hunters over night for anyone's taking. I am well aware of what the article is about and I also know that they took excatly what they went out to get the "Head" for their wall and didn't care about taking the meat or doing something with it to keep the predators away. If they shot the Elk for food then they could have taken most of it with them and then came back the next day for the Head. But they didn't the Antlers were more important. Your name calling only shows you are the ignorant one here. There isn't any reason for all the hostility. Everyone has their own opinion and not all of us are going to agree on the subject of Wolves. But your attitude tells me that you would cry wolf just as they did. It's funny that this has came up now when the subject of Wolves in the media. Appleby is a attention getter, He got his 10 minutes of fame now it's time to find out the truth of what really happend. The only reason they reported the incident is because they shot and killed a protected speicies.These wolves were doing exactly what they are suppose to do in Nature, They did nothing wrong!!!

             
          • JimInTFalls posted at 1:39 pm on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            JimInTFalls Posts: 11

            I

             
          • JimInTFalls posted at 12:54 pm on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            JimInTFalls Posts: 11

            SiTiNi obviously is confused. "caracaras" are a type of predatory bird. This article is about elk, hunters, and wolves seeking to deprive hunters of their legally and lawfully obtained meat. As someone else explained to another ignoramus, horses don't pack antlers (not "horns") out well. So they took that part with them -- also the best part to take in the waning light, as it is less likely to attract nocturnal predators that they might not see until too late. Too bad it wasn't a horde of environmental, howling wolf-lovers who attacked them, for they'd be facing the same "self-defense" defense, but a whole lot more likely to be found INNOCENT (not "not guilty") of any so-called "crime". I like wolves too. But most of the so-called "re-" introduced wolves in Montana came from north slope of Canada, and are NOT the same genetic stock that were here for millenia before asians invaded the continent - which is another matter: I'm surprised wolf-lovers are attacking natives for the audacity to hunt and fish, and have the Federal government allow them to take Narwahls and whales and other mammals that we Euro-whites are forbidden to touch.

             
          • absenteemontanan posted at 12:39 pm on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            absenteemontanan Posts: 42

            KNOWZY1
            You are an obvious liberal that runs your mouth when you have no idea what you are talking about. (like all liberals)
            Even the most battle hardened vet's feel fearful when they are in danger. The difference is that they don't cow down like you worthless liberals.
            Move back to California so you can be with your own kind.

             
          • ettubutte posted at 12:36 pm on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            ettubutte Posts: 7

            Hey, Appleby! Are you sure you're not the balloon boy's old man? Why don't you tell your stupid story to Oprah! I'm sure Oprah will buy it. Get this: "They were in a frenzy," "They were howling. It was eerie.'' That's almost word for word the same sappy account as we heard last year. "Frenzy", "eerie howling", they use the same words to tell the same lies. How do I know? Because they always follow it up the same way: "There's just too many wolves," Appleby said. "We've got to hunt them because it's just getting out of hand." Admit it, you didn't have to keep hunting right up until dark. You could have quit an hour before the sun went down. But not you. You knew there was a grizzly in the area, didn't you. That's what you wanted. That's what you came back for the next day, not the meat. The elk meat was always secondary to you wasn't it. You wanted a grizzly bear and all you got was a silly wolf. Give us the "balloon boy" again, Appleby. That was a good one.

             
          • Strider posted at 11:51 am on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            Strider Posts: 432

            I failed to mention that many elk & deer are shot in the last hour before sunset. So the logistics are: get to your animal. That can take a few minutes to 1/2 hour. Remove the guts so the meat can cool: maybe 15 minutes. Now with a deer, preparing to drag it out might take 2-20 minutes, but then you start dragging. However, with an elk, you have to take the hours to debone (remove the meat from the bones). The quicker the job, the more meat that gets left behind. Or you can quarter the critter. Bear in mind an elk can weigh as much as a horse. Then you hoist a couple hundred pounds plus up high in a tree.

            The sun sets about 6 pm and with all your preparation it is now about midnight. Now hike out & find a friend. Now it is about 2 am & the three of you (you're lucky. You have LOTS of friends who don't have to work the next day.) head back up the mountain. You quickly locate your stash because you were well prepared with night vision goggles, a strobe on the tree & waypoints carefully set out on your GPS. It is now 4:00 am. You load up & start the trek back to the truck.

            Now, lets assume you had 400 pounds of meat. One guy couldn't handle any more than 70 pounds in his pack & the other two took 100 each. (Hey, you wolf lovers. Find someone who weighs about 100 pounds, put them on your shoulders & carry them for 1/2 hour.) That means you guys have to go back up for the rest. Assuming no one gets lost, hurt, or taken away by a carnivore, you'll be done by mid morning.

             
          • TrailPhantom4406 posted at 11:39 am on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            TrailPhantom4406 Posts: 1

            I am pleased to see these hunters had the integrity to stand up and report this. It seems many would follow the 3s (shoot, shovel, shut up). Also, what headline would you prefer to read? 1) "Truck and horse trailer found, search for missing hunters continues" or 2)"Hunters fend of wolves" . This whole case seems pretty cut and dry. Wolves have a right to exist and live in our wildlands, but when human lives are endangered by these aggressive, hungry predators...One MUST protect himself. This is part of the allure, and danger of living and hunting in Montana. There are big wild animals here, THEY WILL EAT YOU should you find yourself in the wrong place at the wrong time. As any TRUE hunter knows, it is not always possible to pack out an elk immediately upon kill...which is why you return with help, guns, and with plenty of daylight. (which is exactly how Appleby handled the situation.) This whole thing is unfortunate for all parties...the hunters, and most definately the wolves.

             
          • knowzy1 posted at 11:32 am on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            knowzy1 Posts: 31

            Animals smell fear. Any fearful hunters out there, no matter how well armed, are always going to feel like prey and shoot at whatever they feel threatened by without caution or regard for the law. Those brave men and women who have served in the military have gotten that fear out of their systems and don't need to overcompensate by collecting and glorifying guns and killing, and shooting at anything that poses simply a potential threat to them. No matter how well armed you are, animals will sense your fear. No wonder the wolves acted like they did. That's nature.

             
          • Logan posted at 11:23 am on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            Logan Posts: 3

            The article said they rode in for 2 hours, not 2 miles. A horse averages 3 mph so it was about 6 miles. A boned out quarter can weigh 80 pounds. If you leave the bone in (so you have something to hang on to and not just a heavy blob of jello) it will weigh more. How many of you have tried to carry an 80 pound blob of jello on your shoulder 6 miles through the woods in the dark. It's not worth a broken ankle etc. They made the best decision they could and knew there was a chance that animals could be on it. They went back in as soon as they could with the right equipment to retrieve the meat. I've done the same thing several times and had no problems. They got unlucky when the wolves found it, and even unluckier (is that a word?) when the wolves came at them.

             
          • Strider posted at 11:20 am on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            Strider Posts: 432

            Lets consider the scenario the wolf lovers have proposed. 1) Shoot it close to the car. 2) take all your friends with you so you can carry it out right after you shoot it. 3) always hunt from your horse(s) so you can pack your food out immediately. If you still insist on hunting alone (imagine that), 4) you must prepare the meat for packing out, protect it from scavengers, go get your friends &/or horses, go back up into the mountains & locate the meat, load it & pack it back out. However, this last part must be done at a dead run so you don't offer a tempting target for any carnivores out there. If they DO stop you, you must give up your meat because it belonged to the wolves, lions & bears first.

            I'm just wondering if we shouldn't oughta call out a wolf lover to accompany us so they can shoo any wolves away while we get back to the truck. No, you cannot be armed even with pepper spray; just use your power of persuasion. They'll understand you love them.

            BTW, notice my picture? My shoe, a 5 1/4 inch wolf track.

             
          • rogue2381 posted at 11:18 am on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            rogue2381 Posts: 3

            It is quite telling that here two hunters are trying to do the right thing by reporting the incident and kill, instead of keeping quiet and all the liberal left environmentalists are trying to crucify them. Now let me ask, what does it mean when someone voluntarily reports something that will cause a huge pain in the rear(investigation, possible court case, etc.) for them? Usually it means that 1) they are telling the truth, and 2) they have integrity.

            Those two are not hiding behind anonymous screen names, spouting political horse manure. They actually were out there, and actually know what they are talking about when they say that they were attacked and were defending themselves. They have experience in the wild, I have experience out in the wild, what exactly do you liberal environmentalist's have? Please try to educate yourself.

             
          • mattuidaho posted at 11:17 am on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            mattuidaho Posts: 8

            Correction: People are forgetting that an elk is not a deer and it takes time and great effort to safely and efficiently transport the harvest out of any area.

             
          • mattuidaho posted at 11:16 am on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            mattuidaho Posts: 8

            So what I am hearing from the lemmings is that we need to get a way from the roads to hunt, but not to far away from the roads, because you need to be able remove your harvest that day... what a load of BS. For an example One guy I know that harvested a bull during Archery season took two days to haul the horns and meat out of the area he was hunting, and this was using horses. People are forgetting that an elk is not an elk and it takes time and great effort to safely and efficiently transport the harvest out of any area. As a Hunter's Education instructor that I know has said to me several times "Once that animal is on the ground, now is when the real work begins" and I totally agree with that statement.

             
          • momof4 posted at 10:55 am on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            momof4 Posts: 118

            As soon as I saw it was Mark Appleby, I knew it was going to be a b.s. story...

             
          • rogue2381 posted at 10:52 am on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            rogue2381 Posts: 3

            Ok, just to clarify for the record it is VERY common to have to return to a kill the day after in order to retrieve the meat. The only times I have seen an Elk come out the same day it was killed is when it was killed within a short distance to the road. Those of you who doubt this, buy an elk tag, come with me next weekend and we will see what you do when you have a 400-600 lbs elk down. And btw I won't help you because you need to understand what it is like to be in that situation alone.

            Secondly, it doesn't matter what part you take out first. Many hunters choose to take out the backstraps first, others a fore-quarter, others the antlers. No matter which way you cut it, if you intend to return to get the rest of it you are doing the right thing. The antlers, head and cape (if you've chosen to cape it out) weigh right around 80 lbs on average, a full load in and of itself. And a very unweildy one at that... I know I've carried one 4 miles on foot before.

            Thirdly, I really would appreciate it if all of the ignorant people would refrain from making ludacris, uneducated comments. If you have never been alone in the wilderness miles from help or aid, this would be you.

            Fourth, Please at least read the story before you comment, some of you have the facts so twisted in your comments I am wondering if starting a reading comprehension class for adults might not be a lucrative business.

            Finally, if you have such a problem with hunters and are that supportive of wolves. Please go demonstrate your love of wolves by petting one, or hugging one... I mean they are just big wild dogs, right?

             
          • kalispelldude posted at 10:37 am on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            kalispelldude Posts: 220

            MNTGAL: 1. You've OBVIOUSLY never hunted, nor are familiar with common practices and procedures (which ARE legal). 2. Soooo...they aren't allowed to defend themselves? No one said they didn't expect wolves or other scavengers to be there. They have a right to defend themselves. They did nothing illegal, or irresponsible, according the THE LAW. They were collecting their kill when wolves decided to attack them. Plain and simple. The wolves still chased them, even though they didn't have the meat with them. Why do you people have such a hard time paying attention to the DETAILS of the story??? The wolves did not have the meat, MTNGAL, they came up on the men after they had gotten to the meat.

             
          • MfgMan posted at 10:36 am on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            MfgMan Posts: 345

            Mntgal - The rack is a pain to carry out on a horse, and is routinely carried out first.
            SiTiNi - All I can say is that you are clueless.

            And I don't even hunt anymore, and I kinda like wolves. But seriously, what part of this article is lost on you? They went back to get their meat. Authorities found all sorts of tracks, and confirmed that they were followed.

            People like you are actually hurting the wolves by your inflamatory and polarizing views. Nice job.

             
          • campo posted at 10:36 am on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            campo Posts: 136

            Wait a minute, the jack wagons ripping these guys for shooting an elk a long way from the road are the same type of dorky anti-hunting fools that are always saying how lazy hunters are. What a riot!!

            Have any of you dopes ever been in the woods? Its obvious you have never hunted. Hey mtngal, can you carry 200+ pounds of boned out meat, antlers, and all the crap you took into the woods out in one trip? Either way, you are going to leave your kill alone, either to 1) make the first trip to the truck packing the choice cuts(no bear or wolf is getting my backstraps) and and/or antlers, day or night, 2) to get your horses, 3)to get friends. I don't think many of you have ever even seen an elk on the ground.

            "Take the body out"???? What is this CSI? You just confirmed my thoughts about your knowledge of anything regarding hunting.

             
          • Mntgal posted at 10:29 am on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            Mntgal Posts: 145

            If would have have taken an edible part of the elk home first and not just made the head the priority, I might have a little sympathy for him that he couldnt pack an elk out all by himselt. Its was the trophy head that he wanted and the meat was secondary. I bet a lot of hunters out there who actually hunt to feed their families would agree.

             
          • james posted at 10:27 am on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            james Posts: 516

            you can sure see the garbage that has moved into this valley, hope the wolves and grizzlies rip their families to shreds in front of this out of state trash

             
          • SiTiNi posted at 10:22 am on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            SiTiNi Posts: 2

            This story is sooo full of holes it isn't even funny!! I agree with Wolfwatcher, This is nothing more than a Trophy hunt that went bad. They took the part with them they were the most interested in and left all the meat?? Now come on, they leave a bloody caracaras laying on the ground all night long what did they expect. They are suppose to be experienced hunters.? They come back on Saturday to find wolves eating their prize. Of course horses are going to react no matter what the predator is. They (hunters) were pissed off at the wolves for eating their so call elk and started shooing at the wolves hitting one. This is nothing more than a set up on the wolves part. These wolves and bear did exactly what nature would expect. They did nothing wrong, they found food so they consumed it. These hunters shot and killed a protected animal now they are coming up with this bull of a story that they were surrounded. Then they were told to leave the quarters behind now that doesn't make since considering a Grizzly bear and wolves were eating on the Elk. When did they have time to cut quarters form an elk that was supposedly devoured by other animals. The true predator here is the the 2 hunters who are lying about this whole senior. I hope justice prevails and they get fined for shooting a protected animal. If the wolves could talk I bet their story would be more of this pattern than what these 2 so called hunters want you all to believe. Their story does not add up.....

             
          • kalispelldude posted at 10:15 am on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            kalispelldude Posts: 220

            "This is a perfect description of the behavior of the slob hunter."

            This is a perfect example of a quote from a closed-minded d-bag.

             
          • knowzy1 posted at 10:11 am on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            knowzy1 Posts: 31

            If someone considers wolves or grizzlies dangerous and doesn't agree with the laws protecting them, what better excuse to legally kill them than to leave a carcass out and claim to be in fear of your life as you go back to check on it. It's a perfect set up to skirt the law.

             
          • Mntgal posted at 9:54 am on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            Mntgal Posts: 145

            This story has Hollywood plot written all over it. Let me get this straight. They killed an elk, quartered it, then left until the next day because they werent prepared to take the body out. How can you be prepared to hunt and then shoot to kill and not think about how you are going to take your kill home? And now they are blaming the wolves because they left a fresh kill out for them overnight to smell and find. I mean what would happen if I took a couple of raw steaks and threw them outside of my house. I am certain in a couple of hours, the bear in our neighborhood would smell them and be eating them. And what would happen if I were to go outside and try to take the raw meat away from the bear at that point? Um duh he would probably charge me. This is a total set up. These guys wanted to be a "hero" to the anti wolf advocates and on top of it all they staged a press conference with a politician. I hope Fish and Wildlife finds them guilty because that is what they are. These two are giving hunters a bad reputation with actions like this.

             
          • MfgMan posted at 9:53 am on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            MfgMan Posts: 345

            It's sure easy to spot the folks that moved here from out of state on this thread. For me, I'm first and foremost thankful that these guys weren't hurt, and then regretful that they lost all the meat. But I'm also intrigued, as say what you want about wolves, this is not typical behavior - at least not in the sense that we've been taught is typical behavior.

            I sympathize with the hunters, and suspect that we need to start listening to them when it comes to what is really going on in the woods. At the same time, I'll admit to liking the fact that wolves are around. I heard a pack howling from my deck this summer up at Ashley Lake, and it was VERY COOL. First time I'd ever heard a wolf howl!

             
          • Not Really posted at 9:39 am on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            Not Really Posts: 104

            " if you see game that is legal, you shoot. No matter where you are in location to your vehicle"

            This is a perfect description of the behavior of the slob hunter.

             
          • james posted at 9:31 am on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            james Posts: 516

            kill all wolves, make the forests safe again, as #1 preditor I am being denied the right to kill #2, only on paper. shoot, shovel and shut up. pack explosives with you and shove them where the sun dont shine on all wolves and wolf lovers the touch it off , do the human race a favor!!!!

             
          • huntressmt posted at 9:16 am on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            huntressmt Posts: 2

            I don't know about all you people out there. For those of you saying that he shouldn't have killed the elk so late in the day, so far away from his truck, apparently, you don't hunt. Do you think that game is so close to the road, that you get out of your truck and shoot it from the road? News flash, you don't see that caliber of elk from roads, you have to get out and HIKE. After all that, if you see game that is legal, you shoot. No matter where you are in location to your vehicle. If that was me, I would've shot too. I'm not going to lose life or limb because they are endangered. For that matter, I am endangered too because there is only one of me. So in my world, who is more important, me or the wolf? I'm gonna chose me always!!!

             
          • Rebel Rouser posted at 9:15 am on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            Rebel Rouser Posts: 1563

            I wonder if these guys have bumper stickers that read "smoke a pack a day"? Maybe FWP should check their rig to see how these guys feel politically about the wolves. I wonder if they will be charged for wasting meat, they did leave the wolf carcass out there to rot. Ummmmmm, wolf tacos!

             
          • kalmom posted at 8:49 am on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            kalmom Posts: 17

            What surprises me is there are not more stories published about wolf attacks. The wolves are very agrressive and if you think it's only happening in the wilderness, think again. The wolves are coming into communites and killing pets and small livestock, we just aren't told of them (officially that is). As for the men leaving the carcass over night, this is common if game is taken late in the day it may not be posssible or safe (grizzly, wolf, etc) to retrieve after dark. These men did the right thing in going back in daylight. I only wish they were able to retrieve their hard earned elk.

             
          • kalispelldude posted at 8:49 am on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            kalispelldude Posts: 220

            Obviously you wolf lovers don't know how to read and pay attention. As so many other posters have already commented, leaving a carcass to return for it later is a very common, legitimate practice. All you're doing now is just firing up more of us hunters to not be as kind and polite as these guys were to wolves that attack us. From now on, I'm going to carry a bazooka with me so I can defend myself against the entire pack all at once. Bye-bye Mr. Wolf. LOL I'm joking, of course. I'm sure you wolf lovers believe all of us "slobs" would actually obtain said bazookas and go out looking for wolves. Although, keep mouthing off like you are, and you never know! LOL

             
          • michael posted at 8:45 am on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            michael Posts: 534

            Thankfully the wolves are listed and there will be an investigation.

             
          • rooter posted at 8:39 am on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            rooter Posts: 171

            Maybe Ray should be shot for wearing that sweater!

             
          • kalispelldude posted at 8:32 am on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            kalispelldude Posts: 220

            It's funny, I read another artle on this story on the local CBS webiste (KAJ18), and they featured a comment by a Defenders of Wildlife member.

            Here's what he said:

            "While the hunters say they feared for their lives, wolf advocate Michael Leahy from Defenders of Wildlife questions whether the men were actually in any danger.

            "Hopefully law enforcement will be able to sort this out and tell us if they truly were the first outdoorsmen in the history of the state to be actually threatened by a wolf. But if you leave an elk carcass out overnight on the ground, like it sounds may have happened here, you go to expect that bears, wolves and other animals are going to move in and start feeding off it."

            "...truly were the first outdoorsmen in the history of the state to be actually threatened by a wolf." Sigh. Just, sigh.

             
          • kalispelldude posted at 8:26 am on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            kalispelldude Posts: 220

            @wolfwatcher:

            "But once you really think about what happened there is no doubt that this resulted in an illegal killing. of an animal protected under the Endangered Species Act. .plain and simple."

            What's with all the periods? And are you on yours?

            "These hunters kill and elk and take the head. Trophy hunt. If they have ever hunted before they would know that returning a day later to the carcass they should expect to find scavengers"

            Um, did you even READ the article? They KNEW there might be scavengers why they had their guns with them. And then you call it a trophy hunt, yet you talk about them returning to get the meat. You just contradicted yourself. If it WAS a trophy hunt, they wouldn't have gone back to get the meat.

            "People can speak out in their support because of the sheer fact that they have a hatred for wolves, and that is too bad. If this was a case where wolves attacked livestock or someones pet and they had no other choice but to shoot I would not have a problem with it. "

            People also have a hatred for ridiculous views such as yours. Your lack of logic and common sense is STUNNING. So you would have no problem with someone killing a wolf that attacked their PET, but let the human attacked by a wold just die??? Typical of you "animal first" types.

            You'd better watch yourself, there, wolfwatcher, now-a-days it would be easy to get yourself sued for slander for spewing all that nonsense about these guys manufacturing a situation to intentionally kill wolves.

             
          • knowzy1 posted at 8:21 am on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            knowzy1 Posts: 31

            It seems obvious these guys were baiting a grizzly to add to their elk take, but had to settle for wolves. So sad that they were scared. Why would they be surprised, let alone scared after leaving a carcass overnight? Maybe they need to freshen up on their nature education.

             
          • Wolfpack posted at 8:20 am on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            Wolfpack Posts: 16

            I agree with you DeesBull. Those half wits couldn’t really have believed that a quartered elk left overnight in Grizzly and wolf habitat would be waiting for them just as they left it. I’ll bet the “real” story went quite differently than what they are trying to convince law enforcement officials. I think they should be charged and their hunting licenses revoked

             
          • Not Really posted at 8:18 am on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            Not Really Posts: 104

            More slob hunters just after the trophy mount, the meat is not that important, we'll get that later, ya know

            Why did you kill an elk so far away knowing you could only manage to retrieve the head?

            Then it goes from slob hunter hysteria to political BS down at the mall with a fake "news conference".

            Bruce Tutvedt & Gary Hall couldn't resist this one, or was it all just a set up?

             
          • cuzican posted at 8:10 am on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            cuzican Posts: 231

            Claus- I carry a Glock in 10mm and it is a great side arm. I always carry an extra clip for a total of 30 rounds.
            I do a lot of camping in the south fork drainage with my wife and kids.....all you wolf lovers should be thankful that these two boneheads were scared and retreated only killing one wolf. I promise you that when/if the pack endangers my family there will be no newspaper story to read about. There will only be a missing wolf pack.

            And to the nippleheads that criticize leaving the quarters out overnight...please post your phone numbers so the rest of us know who to call at dusk to help us on the all night pack to get them out.

             
          • averagejoe posted at 8:03 am on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            averagejoe Posts: 253

            deesbull,
            Most elk that are shot late in the day a couple of miles from a road are left over night. A big bull can have over 200 ponds of meat after it is boned out. if it is just quartered and skinned it will weigh over 300 pounds. If i kill an animal in the afternoon it is skinned bagged and hung in a tree at least a hundred yards from the gut pile, if you are by yourself this is a lot of work. In over 35 years of hunting I have done this at least a dozen times myself and helped at least a dozen other people do this, it wasn,t until three years ago that I ever had an animal around the carcass, and it was wolves. There are a lot more wolves out there than we are led to believe by the feds, and something needs to be done about their numbers. With their population growth and a shrinking game supply these conflicts will only get worse. It is only a matter of time before someone is killed by a starving pack. I give these guys credit, I would have shot a lot more than one wolf if they acted like this around me.

             
          • PantherMartin posted at 7:55 am on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            PantherMartin Posts: 13

            Correction:
            A wolf eats an average of 1.8 elk per month/ 14.4 per year/ or 172 per 8 member pack (factor deer/moose- from a study in Yellowstone Park.) They perhaps eat less in the warmer months. Similar study results have been found with moose/ wolves on Michigan's Isle Royale.

             
          • PantherMartin posted at 7:40 am on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            PantherMartin Posts: 13

            Growing up on the farm, we saw a continual cycle of coyotes and pheasants. When there were a lot of birds (food), the coyote population would explode by having larger litters every year until the birds were depleted. Then there was a starve-down of the coyotes and shrinking litter sizes. Next in the cycle was an increase in birds, etc. etc.
            As long as there are elk, deer and moose there will be an explosion in wolf numbers until they eat down their food supply. A wolf eats an average of 2 elk per month, so an eight member pack eats about 16 elk per month, or 192 elk per year. This attrition of big game is amplified if you factor in the smaller elk/ moose calves and deer fawns.
            Wolves don't care about hunting seasons, herd health, or quick clean death. Wolves kill year around, take females calves and fawns, and are cruel by often eating on live hamstrung animals. If we ever wish to see abundant herds of elk and deer in the future, we have to choose between a healthy balance in the woods, or a woodland that is a fearful place, devoid of big game.

             
          • DeesBull posted at 7:04 am on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            DeesBull Posts: 9

            Wait a minute...These 'hunters' were hunting elk with no plan to pack out their meat? So they left all that meat out in the woods overnight and honestly expected to find it like they left it? Come on. No wonder they're being questioned intently by the authorities. Anyone with half a brain knows you don't leave your kill out in the woods overnight.

             
          • Claus posted at 6:54 am on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            Claus Posts: 394

            I think we should follow Idaho's lead, and let the Feds and wolfwatcher enforce the wolf protective laws. I don't want one cent of my license fees going to Montana officials to persecute Montana hunters for killing wolves as they see fit.

            By the way, plenty of game is taken late in the day, and in places that require friends and other resources to move. While no one would voluntarily leave game out over night, it's not always possible to retrieve it immediately. While we plan ahead, hunting is a matter of opportunity. Well, now I suppose we can just call wolfwatcher and his liberal friends, and they'll track 2 miles up a drainage in the dark to retrieve 4 quarters of elk! I'd pay to see that!

            This story is a reminder to me to carry more ammunition when I go hunting. While I carry a revolver, I usually only have the ammo that's loaded in it and and the five rounds 3-5 rounds in my rifle. That will change next time I go out. I think an argument could be made for the Glock in 357 Sig or 10mm as a hunting sidearm. They're light weight, have good penetration and come with 15 round magazines. Thanks for the heads up!

             
          • joesph posted at 6:27 am on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            joesph Posts: 16

            hey Wolfwatcher you pin head, the horns he packed out first are the hardest to pack on stock ( if you had any experience besides a granola commercial). This is just one of the wolf human conflicts last week. Another group of hunters had to disperse wolves that would not leave their campsite using deadly force. I t is suggested that you follow the three P's in matters like this Shootem, Shovel'em and Shutup

             
          • wolfwatcher posted at 4:35 am on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            wolfwatcher Posts: 1

            These hunters kill and elk and take the head. Trophy hunt. If they have ever hunted before they would know that returning a day later to the carcass they should expect to find scavengers. Perhaps that is exactly why they did wait a day! What they did by killing a wolf in this manner is totally illegal under the ESA. They have come up with a much more elaborated story now after thinking of what the consequences could be as a result of their illegal actions. Both "hunters" should be charged. People can speak out in their support because of the sheer fact that they have a hatred for wolves, and that is too bad. If this was a case where wolves attacked livestock or someones pet and they had no other choice but to shoot I would not have a problem with it. But once you really think about what happened there is no doubt that this resulted in an illegal killing. of an animal protected under the Endangered Species Act. .plain and simple.

             
          • james posted at 4:01 am on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            james Posts: 516

            our ancesters were a lot smarter than the ones that running things today, they eliminated the problem instead of protecting them. its only a matter of time before they kill someone. NO MORE WOLVES !!!!!!!!

             
          • msm posted at 3:17 am on Fri, Nov 5, 2010.

            msm Posts: 46

            Too bad they only harvested one.

             

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